Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
and this is Dr. Tom Sheperd
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from Andrews University Seminary
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where he is the Professor
of New Testament Interpretation
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and he's also the Director for
the Ph. D. in Religion Program
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as well as the
Th. D. in Religion,
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so we're very
pleased to have you here,
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and what this
series is titled is,
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"Love,
Marriage, Sex, and Divorce
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according to
the New Testament. "
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This is... as we've
said so many times...
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a program that actually...
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a class that you
teach at Andrews University
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and we've got a
lot to talk about today
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so we're going to
hop right into it,
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we've been talking about
the instructions to wives
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from Ephesians 5
where Paul was talking about
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"wives submit to your
husband as to the Lord,"
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and I would like,
first, if you would,
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just, kind of recap
what we've talked about
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in case someone has missed it.
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Okay, we notice
that in Ephesians 5:21,
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Paul presents
his thesis statement
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where he says that you
are to submit to one another
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out of reverence for Christ.
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And this becomes the thesis
for the entire instruction
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that he gives to the
entire Christian family,
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then we notice
that he tells wives
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that they are to
submit to their own husbands
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we indicated that "submission"
does not mean inferiority,
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it does not mean denying
any personal relationship.
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It doesn't deny a
personal relationship with God,
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and it does not suggest
that the person is somehow
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a doormat that people can
just walk all over or abuse,
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so, that's not
what submission means,
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we found that the
focus of submission,
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according to Paul in
Ephesians 5 verse 22,
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was to their own
husbands, not to other people
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and that the
paradigm for submission was
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the wife's submission to Christ.
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We found that the
center of power had shifted
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actually from the
husband to Christ...
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it's as to the Lord...
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and the wife has a personal
relationship with Christ,
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the submission to the
Lord teaches how to submit
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but also limits the submission
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to only that which is consistent
with the teachings of Christ.
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Amen, I was just going to say,
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so that's basically
looking at the thesis statement
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in verse 21 of Ephesians
5, "submit to one another"
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now we've talked about
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wives submitting to
your husband as to the Lord,
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that's verse 22,
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so we're ready
for verses 23 and 24.
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Is that correct? That's correct.
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So let's read those.
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Ephesians chapter 5
and we look at verse 23,
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"For the husband
is head of the wife,
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as also Christ is
head of the Church;
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and He is... "
He... being Christ...
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"... is the Savior of the body.
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Therefore, just as the
church is subject to Christ,
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so let the wives be to their
own husbands in everything. "
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Now, what does Paul
mean here by the word "head,"
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husband is the
"head" of the wife?
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Well, that's...
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there is a huge fight
over this issue actually
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in New Testament Studies
and the meaning of that term,
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here we'll notice that the
reason why the wife is to submit
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is because the husband
is the head of the wife
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but what does
that word, "head" mean?
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It seems to...
or seems to suggest
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some kind of position
of power or leadership,
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but we need to look
at this more closely
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since it's a very hot
topic, it's disputed a lot,
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the Greek term is,
"Kephalé," a term which means
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both literally "head"
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and metaphorically it's
used in a variety of ways,
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so Paul uses the term
18 times, so we can...
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we can... you know...
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when you find a
passage like this
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and you say, "Well,
what does that mean,
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what does he mean by
this word, 'head' here?"
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If you go and see the way
he uses it in other places,
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that may help you
understand how he uses it here,
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okay, so, we want to
look at a few of these
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in different places
where Paul uses the term
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the first is... the
idea of a literal head,
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like the head of your
body, like... you know...
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what caps on top of your neck?
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Paul uses this term... we
kind of wonder a little bit
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but Paul uses the term
over in Romans 12 verse 20,
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if we can just read that verse.
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Certainly,
Romans 12 and verse 20,
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"Therefore, if your
enemy is hungry, feed him;
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if he is
thirsty, give him a drink:
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for in so doing
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you will heap coals
of fire on his head. "
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It's an
interesting verse isn't it?
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I really wish that
everywhere in the world
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where people were fighting,
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that they would do
what this verse says.
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"If your enemy
is hungry, feed him;
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if he is thirsty, give
him something to drink... "
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Now, let me ask you
if you've ever heard this
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because I read it somewhere
once and I don't know...
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what I... because it used to...
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you know, it
almost sounds retributive
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when you're
saying that in "subduing"
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you heap coals
of fire on his head,
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but what I heard
was, during the time,
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that they wore this
"thing" on their head
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and if they were in repentance,
they put coals on top of the...
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some kind of a platter
on their head... and that...
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in other words...
by us feeding our enemy
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and giving them a drink,
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that it would
cause them to repent.
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Have you ever heard that story?
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I haven't that story but
that's an interesting idea,
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I take it here, in terms of
"burning coals on their heads,"
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that they'll be ashamed,
it's painful when somebody is...
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when you've been mean to them
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and they're nice to you,
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yeah, I'm giving
the same kind of idea,
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they're going to repent,
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they're going to
change their ways,
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so this may be...
it's almost metaphoric
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but it's really, you know,
"burning coals on the head,"
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that's like... this is
the... your literal head.
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Now, actually, there
are a number of times
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that Paul uses it
in a literal way...
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is not very common,
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there's another
passage that's also
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very challenging to understand
over in 1st Corinthians 11
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but Paul talks about...
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a man not wearing
something on his head,
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and the wife is supposed
to wear something on her head,
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that's a literal head
even though in the passage
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sometimes the term
is used metaphorically.
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But I wanted to go
to some other passages
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that are probably a little more
easy to understand and grasp,
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and when we come to the
metaphoric use of this term,
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there are three
different concepts
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that have been suggested
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as the meaning
of the word "head. "
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One is the idea
of source or origin
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or even temporal priorities,
something that comes earlier,
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so if I said, "That
head of the Nile... "
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you're thinking the
source... where it begins,
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the head of the Nile, if I...
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the second usage is the concept
of something that's preeminent
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or foremost or
representative of others,
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if I were to say, "the
head of the human race,"
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we think of Adam, he
was a representative man,
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he was out there in front of us,
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he's our great
grandfather, all right,
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the third term is to
have authority over something,
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like if we said,
"The Head of the Company
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is coming to our
Department today"
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okay, so he has
authority over the Company,
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so we have these
three different concepts:
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Source,
Representative, and Authority.
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So, the question,
of course, we have is,
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how does Paul use
it in Ephesians 5?
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But we mustn't be
in too much of a rush
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to find that,
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we've got to look at
how Paul uses it elsewhere,
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and some of the
best ways to look at that
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is, "How does he use the
term in the book of Ephesians,
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that's our book, and
how does he use the term
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in the book of Colossians
which is kind of a twin book
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of Ephesians, you
read the two books,
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they have a lot in
common with one another,
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so we're going to read...
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this is sort of inductive,
we're going to start and say,
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"Okay, so...
what does this mean?"
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So the first usage
we're going to look,
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and if people that
are listening or watching,
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have their Bibles,
they can open with us
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and follow along,
Ephesians 1 verse 22,
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Ephesians
chapter 1 and verse 22.
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We're talking about Jesus.
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"And He, Jesus... "
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I'm sorry, that's God...
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and then... Jesus
will be the subject...
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Okay, "And He, God, put
all things under His feet,
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and gave Him, Christ,
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to be head over all
things to the church,
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which is His body,
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the fullness of Him
who fills all in all. "
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Okay, so He's the head
over all things to the church,
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now, does that
sound to you like Source,
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Representative or
Authority over all?
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You could almost
use all three of these
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but I would say, Authority.
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Yeah, yeah,
because He's the Head
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over all things
for the church, right?
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Yes.
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And so, it kind of has
that sense that goes with it,
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all right, let's go
to the next usage which
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is in Ephesians 4 verse 15.
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Ephesians 4 and verse 15,
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"but, speaking
the truth in love,
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may grow up in
all things into Him
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who is the head... Christ... "
00:10:03.43\00:10:05.53
So that would be the Source?
00:10:05.57\00:10:08.00
Ah, you might take it that way,
00:10:08.07\00:10:10.34
"rather, speaking
the truth in love,
00:10:10.37\00:10:11.91
we may grow up
into Him in every way
00:10:11.94\00:10:13.58
who is the head,"
now, if we keep reading,
00:10:13.61\00:10:18.95
keep reading in verse 16,
00:10:18.98\00:10:20.32
"From whom the whole
body, joined and knit together
00:10:20.35\00:10:23.22
by whatever joint supplies
00:10:23.25\00:10:25.15
according to the
effective working
00:10:25.22\00:10:26.76
by which every
part does its share
00:10:26.82\00:10:28.32
causes growth of the body
00:10:28.36\00:10:30.13
for the edifying
of itself in love. "
00:10:30.16\00:10:33.43
Hmmm... so that does
have that sense of a source,
00:10:33.46\00:10:38.20
that the energy comes from Him,
00:10:38.23\00:10:40.30
but there's a
relational kind of concept here,
00:10:40.34\00:10:42.90
it's the head and the
body they're linked together
00:10:42.94\00:10:45.17
and it's from the whole,
00:10:45.21\00:10:47.81
from whom the whole
body joined together,
00:10:47.84\00:10:50.01
so, "source," I
think, is a good choice
00:10:50.05\00:10:52.21
in this particular case,
00:10:52.25\00:10:53.58
now, it's
interesting... notice that Paul
00:10:53.62\00:10:55.08
doesn't use the word in
the same way... each time.
00:10:55.15\00:10:57.89
Yvonne: Right.
00:10:57.92\00:10:59.25
Sometimes people get the
idea, "he uses it this way,
00:10:59.29\00:11:01.79
he always has to use it this way
00:11:01.82\00:11:03.86
it's only used this way. "
00:11:03.89\00:11:05.46
Shelley: Okay. Tom: No...
00:11:05.49\00:11:07.60
You had me worried
there for a minute,
00:11:07.63\00:11:08.96
I thought I was wrong
when I said, "source," but...
00:11:09.00\00:11:11.40
It's okay to be wrong,
when we study the Bible,
00:11:11.43\00:11:14.04
we shouldn't be saying like...
00:11:14.07\00:11:15.70
"You got to see it
my way or the highway. "
00:11:15.74\00:11:17.64
Right, right...
00:11:17.67\00:11:19.01
So, we got to think
together, all right,
00:11:19.04\00:11:20.54
now, let's turn...
this is our passage...
00:11:20.58\00:11:22.24
Ephesians 5:23,
00:11:22.28\00:11:23.61
and this one you
don't have to answer yet
00:11:23.65\00:11:25.61
because we'll
think... but just read it.
00:11:25.65\00:11:27.58
I can guess what this one is,
00:11:27.62\00:11:30.49
"For the husband
is head of the wife,
00:11:30.52\00:11:33.79
as also Christ is
head of the church;
00:11:33.82\00:11:36.99
and He is... Christ...
is the Savior of the body. "
00:11:37.03\00:11:40.30
Well, the husband is
not the source of the wife
00:11:40.33\00:11:43.53
and we know that Christ
is the ultimate authority,
00:11:43.57\00:11:46.70
so, he's not the
"authority" of the wife,
00:11:46.74\00:11:49.34
but he is the
"representative" in the family.
00:11:49.37\00:11:51.91
I think that "representative"
is the right choice.
00:11:51.94\00:11:53.61
I would think so.
00:11:53.64\00:11:55.21
All right, let's just
hang on to that thought
00:11:55.24\00:11:57.05
because this is text that we're
really trying to figure out
00:11:57.08\00:11:59.28
so we won't jump
on it too much first,
00:11:59.31\00:12:01.32
we'll kind of get the other ones
00:12:01.35\00:12:03.45
and then we'll
come back here okay,
00:12:03.49\00:12:05.49
now, the next usage
that we have is found in...
00:12:05.52\00:12:09.26
over in Colossians...
00:12:09.29\00:12:10.63
so there are three,
we saw, in Galatians,
00:12:10.66\00:12:12.53
I'm sorry, in Ephesians,
00:12:12.56\00:12:14.26
and now there are three
that we'll see in Colossians.
00:12:14.30\00:12:16.50
We'll turn to
Colossians 1 verse 18,
00:12:16.53\00:12:19.50
and you'll start to
see how these books are
00:12:19.53\00:12:21.94
verily similar to one another.
00:12:21.97\00:12:24.71
Colossians 1 and verse 18.
00:12:24.74\00:12:26.54
Talking about Christ now.
00:12:26.57\00:12:28.34
"And He, Christ, is
the head of the body,
00:12:28.38\00:12:31.45
the church, who
is the beginning.
00:12:31.48\00:12:33.72
the firstborn from the
dead, that in all things
00:12:33.75\00:12:37.09
He may have the preeminence. "
00:12:37.12\00:12:38.95
Okay, what do you
think about that one?
00:12:39.02\00:12:41.16
Which one does it
suggest, "Source?"
00:12:41.19\00:12:43.32
Well, He's the beginning
00:12:43.36\00:12:44.69
so that would be the
"Source," to me, the firstborn.
00:12:44.73\00:12:47.33
He is the Head,
He is the beginning,
00:12:47.36\00:12:48.86
the firstborn from the dead,
00:12:48.90\00:12:50.23
and in everything he
might have preeminence.
00:12:50.27\00:12:52.07
So that would make
Him an Authority then.
00:12:52.10\00:12:54.57
Well, the
Representative, preeminent,
00:12:54.60\00:12:57.01
He has foremost location,
00:12:57.04\00:12:58.37
and He's a Representative,
so there might be
00:12:58.41\00:13:01.54
some of those ideas,
00:13:01.58\00:13:02.94
now, maybe sometimes you
get some mix of ideas here,
00:13:02.98\00:13:05.65
always there's a "Leadership"
idea... it seems like.
00:13:05.71\00:13:08.15
Turn to Colossians 2 verse 10.
00:13:08.18\00:13:10.12
Colossians
chapter 2 and verse 10,
00:13:10.15\00:13:14.19
"And you are complete in Him,
00:13:14.22\00:13:17.06
who is the head of all
principality and power. "
00:13:17.09\00:13:22.23
Okay, what does that sound like?
00:13:22.26\00:13:23.97
Well, I would think it's
not "Source," definitely,
00:13:24.00\00:13:27.97
it's not Representative,
it's Authority there.
00:13:28.00\00:13:31.37
Yeah, yeah, He's Head overall,
00:13:31.41\00:13:33.74
He's Head of all
rule and authority
00:13:33.78\00:13:35.81
so He is above that.
Shelley: He's Authority.
00:13:35.84\00:13:37.75
Yeah, this is part of...
well Colossians has a big theme
00:13:37.78\00:13:43.28
about Christology
and about who Christ is
00:13:43.32\00:13:45.79
and you don't add on to Him,
00:13:45.82\00:13:47.79
if you add on the
Jesus you subtract from Him,
00:13:47.82\00:13:50.19
is kind of the message,
00:13:50.23\00:13:51.56
because He's the...
00:13:51.59\00:13:53.13
He's the primary one for us,
00:13:53.16\00:13:55.00
now, the last one
there in Colossians
00:13:55.03\00:13:57.90
is in Colossians 2:19.
00:13:57.93\00:13:59.90
Okay, "and not
holding fast to the Head,
00:13:59.93\00:14:03.44
being... Jesus...
from whom all the body,
00:14:03.51\00:14:06.94
nourished and knit together
by joints and ligaments,
00:14:06.98\00:14:09.64
grows with the
increase that is from God. "
00:14:09.71\00:14:13.62
Holding fast to
the head, the source,
00:14:13.65\00:14:17.09
from whom... that
would be "source?"
00:14:17.15\00:14:20.52
Tom: Yeah, very much
"source. " Shelley: Okay.
00:14:20.56\00:14:22.72
So now, in some other cases
00:14:22.76\00:14:24.63
we might not always be able
to nail it down particularly,
00:14:24.66\00:14:28.66
but probably, most often we can,
00:14:28.70\00:14:30.53
and here's the
interesting thing,
00:14:30.57\00:14:32.93
we've looked at
six different verses,
00:14:32.97\00:14:35.60
three in Ephesians,
three in Colossians,
00:14:35.64\00:14:38.61
does he ever use the
word to mean, "source?"
00:14:38.64\00:14:41.61
Shelley: Yes. Tom: Yes.
00:14:41.64\00:14:43.31
Does he ever use the word
to mean, "representative?"
00:14:43.35\00:14:45.91
Shelley: Yes. Tom: Yes.
00:14:45.95\00:14:48.88
Does he ever use the
word to mean, "authority?"
00:14:48.92\00:14:53.12
Shelley: Yes. Tom: Yes.
00:14:53.15\00:14:54.62
Yeah, so, he uses
the word all three ways.
00:14:54.66\00:14:57.79
Shelley: okay.
00:14:57.83\00:14:59.16
It comes out in all three ways,
00:14:59.19\00:15:00.80
so, there are
phrases in the context
00:15:00.83\00:15:05.07
that actually
help us to recognize
00:15:05.13\00:15:09.30
which of these meanings
the Apostle has in mind.
00:15:09.34\00:15:12.74
And that's why it's so important
00:15:12.77\00:15:14.54
to always take
things in context.
00:15:14.58\00:15:16.28
Yeah, when you come
across a challenging text,
00:15:16.34\00:15:20.75
I don't call
them "problem texts,"
00:15:20.78\00:15:23.89
I ask my students
sometimes I'll say,
00:15:23.92\00:15:26.99
"How many 'problem
texts' are there in the Bible?"
00:15:27.02\00:15:28.89
Shelley: You always get it,
don't you, the answer is zero.
00:15:28.92\00:15:32.96
Tom: The answer is
zero. Shelley: Okay.
00:15:32.99\00:15:34.50
There are no
"problem texts" in the Bible
00:15:34.53\00:15:35.86
because the Bible text,
00:15:35.90\00:15:37.33
the text in
Scriptures is not the problem.
00:15:37.37\00:15:39.73
The problem is our
understanding of it, right,
00:15:39.77\00:15:42.10
and so, but when you have a one
00:15:42.14\00:15:44.91
that you're really
challenged to understand,
00:15:44.94\00:15:47.01
what you do is,
you read the context
00:15:47.04\00:15:49.38
that's the words around it
00:15:49.41\00:15:50.88
and you look for
relationships between the words
00:15:50.91\00:15:53.58
and here we notice
00:15:53.62\00:15:54.95
some of these
relationships between the words.
00:15:54.98\00:15:56.89
Right, "from whom,"
definitely lets you know
00:15:56.95\00:15:58.99
that it's the "source. "
00:15:59.02\00:16:00.36
Yeah, yeah, when it says,
"He is head over all things,"
00:16:00.39\00:16:04.16
Ephesians 1 verse
22... Shelley: Authority?
00:16:04.19\00:16:06.83
Yeah, authority...
rule and authority,
00:16:06.86\00:16:09.46
clearly that's the idea.
00:16:09.50\00:16:10.83
When it says that Christ
is the Head of the Church,
00:16:10.87\00:16:14.04
it makes you think,
00:16:14.07\00:16:15.97
it might make
you think of source,
00:16:16.00\00:16:17.51
but also... Shelley:
It suggests authority?
00:16:17.54\00:16:20.54
Yeah, it suggests that
00:16:20.58\00:16:21.91
but then there's a
relational authority
00:16:21.94\00:16:23.81
because it's the body.
00:16:23.85\00:16:25.18
Shelley: So "representative. "
Tom: Yeah he represents the body
00:16:25.21\00:16:27.58
he's the Head... he would say,
00:16:27.62\00:16:29.28
we said, "He's the
Head of the Church"
00:16:29.32\00:16:30.75
I think that one is
the most difficult for me
00:16:30.79\00:16:33.76
because, like I said,
"It could be all three. "
00:16:33.79\00:16:35.79
Yeah, it's a little bit,
it's a little bit nuanced
00:16:35.82\00:16:37.83
in between
there, but when we say,
00:16:37.86\00:16:39.26
"He is the Head from
whom the body is nourished,"
00:16:39.29\00:16:41.33
then we think of "source,"
yeah, everything comes from Him.
00:16:41.36\00:16:45.27
All right, so, now
that brings us back,
00:16:45.30\00:16:49.50
that brings us back
to Ephesians 5 verse 23
00:16:49.54\00:16:53.68
and with those
three ideas in mind,
00:16:53.71\00:16:56.75
of Source, of Representative
and of Authority over...
00:16:56.78\00:17:02.55
now we'll read
verse... verse 20,
00:17:02.58\00:17:06.22
well, let's read 22 and 23.
00:17:06.25\00:17:09.26
And see, I jumped
the gun a while ago,
00:17:09.29\00:17:10.83
but I still
believe the same thing.
00:17:10.86\00:17:12.33
Ephesians chapter 5
and verse 22, it says,
00:17:12.36\00:17:16.56
"Wives, submit to your
own husbands, as to the Lord.
00:17:16.60\00:17:20.24
For the husband
is head of the wife,
00:17:20.30\00:17:22.87
as also Christ is
head of the church:
00:17:22.90\00:17:25.37
and He Christ is the
Savior of the body. "
00:17:25.44\00:17:28.04
So, here it says that the
husband is head of the wife,
00:17:28.08\00:17:33.85
he's not the "source,"
00:17:33.92\00:17:35.45
there's not
"source" language in here,
00:17:35.48\00:17:37.72
it doesn't show
that he is over her,
00:17:37.75\00:17:40.02
that doesn't show,
like, an "authority,"
00:17:40.06\00:17:42.22
so it would be a
"representative" of the family,
00:17:42.26\00:17:45.69
he's the representative
is how I would read it.
00:17:45.73\00:17:49.16
Yeah, and if you look at...
00:17:49.20\00:17:50.53
the husband is
compared to Christ,
00:17:50.57\00:17:53.90
he isn't Christ, but
he is compared to Christ
00:17:53.94\00:17:56.64
he says, "as Christ is
head of the church: his body. "
00:17:56.67\00:18:00.18
So, that's the kind
of relational concept
00:18:00.21\00:18:04.48
of representation and
linkage that goes on here
00:18:04.51\00:18:07.88
and so, yeah,
"representative" makes sense,
00:18:07.92\00:18:11.22
so, in that kind of a
sense, what we would say is
00:18:11.25\00:18:14.69
that he is like,
"Head of household,"
00:18:14.72\00:18:16.76
he represents the
household in the sense of
00:18:16.79\00:18:19.93
"one who represents
them to other people
00:18:20.00\00:18:23.73
or to the world or
in relationships. "
00:18:23.77\00:18:26.33
So the husband is not "head,"
in the Greco-Roman sense,
00:18:26.37\00:18:31.07
Paul has shifted from
a Greco-Roman sense of
00:18:31.14\00:18:33.88
the "Pater familias," who
had almost unlimited authority,
00:18:33.91\00:18:37.15
that would be "authority over,"
00:18:37.18\00:18:38.81
Paul shifts it to more,
perhaps, a relational idea
00:18:38.85\00:18:41.75
where the husband represents...
but he's tied to the family.
00:18:41.78\00:18:45.75
And so, it's this
priestly-type function in a way
00:18:45.79\00:18:50.49
that the husband
is... I think of Job
00:18:50.53\00:18:54.80
and how he prayed
for his family members
00:18:54.83\00:18:58.23
and this is
something that there is that
00:18:58.27\00:19:01.60
I guess, responsibility
and accountability to the Lord,
00:19:01.64\00:19:06.34
Tom: Yeah. Shelley: You agree?
00:19:06.37\00:19:08.14
Tom: Oh Yes, and we
will see as we talk about...
00:19:08.18\00:19:11.11
we'll come, next time, to
the discussion with husbands
00:19:11.15\00:19:13.88
and how they are to
fill their role of Leadership
00:19:13.92\00:19:16.75
and it's not the
kind of controlling thing
00:19:16.79\00:19:19.52
that sometimes,
people get the idea of.
00:19:19.55\00:19:22.22
Here the paradigm for
the husband is Christ.
00:19:22.26\00:19:25.49
Christ is the paradigm,
00:19:25.53\00:19:27.20
the Christian family cannot
have a human representative
00:19:27.23\00:19:31.70
who is unlike Christ, who
doesn't follow Christ's lead
00:19:31.73\00:19:35.97
so if he's acting in a
way that's not like Christ,
00:19:36.00\00:19:39.47
he's not really acting
like the head of the family.
00:19:39.51\00:19:42.91
And so, when we think about
it, Christ is our advocate,
00:19:42.94\00:19:46.35
Christ is
interceding for us all times
00:19:46.38\00:19:49.75
so, Christ is the
lover of our souls
00:19:49.78\00:19:53.09
so the husband is to
love and protect the family,
00:19:53.12\00:19:57.79
the wife and the children
00:19:57.83\00:19:59.36
just as Christ loves
and protects the church.
00:19:59.39\00:20:02.83
Yes, yes, now
notice that Jesus as
00:20:02.86\00:20:05.77
Head of the
Church has a purpose,
00:20:05.80\00:20:08.64
and his purpose is to
be the Savior of the body,
00:20:08.67\00:20:12.64
now, Paul intermingles here
talking about the Christian home
00:20:12.67\00:20:17.38
and we'll see it more and
more as we go on in this passage
00:20:17.41\00:20:21.05
when we specially get to
the section on the husbands,
00:20:21.08\00:20:24.09
it's almost as though he
forgets talking about the home
00:20:24.15\00:20:27.12
and starts talking
about Ecclesiology,
00:20:27.16\00:20:28.82
that is, the
doctrine of the church
00:20:28.89\00:20:30.49
and here he describes Christ
as the Savior of the body.
00:20:30.53\00:20:36.60
Christ is the
Savior of the Church.
00:20:36.63\00:20:39.53
But we should
notice the distinction
00:20:39.57\00:20:42.44
between Jesus and the husband.
00:20:42.47\00:20:45.17
The husband is never
called the savior of the wife.
00:20:45.21\00:20:49.24
Shelley: Right.
00:20:49.28\00:20:50.61
There's one Savior.
and that Savior is Jesus,
00:20:50.65\00:20:53.38
okay, so the husband
is never called the Savior
00:20:53.42\00:20:56.38
nor is the wife
called the husband's body
00:20:56.42\00:21:00.46
as Christ, the
Church is Christ's body
00:21:00.49\00:21:03.83
but the wife is
not the husband's body,
00:21:03.86\00:21:07.10
so there is...
there's a distinction between
00:21:07.13\00:21:09.63
there are limits
to the identification
00:21:09.66\00:21:12.10
or parallel with Jesus.
00:21:12.13\00:21:13.80
The husband is not
Jesus. Shelley: Amen.
00:21:13.84\00:21:18.54
And again, you
know, when things are done
00:21:18.57\00:21:23.24
in the order that God created
00:21:23.31\00:21:25.55
and in the manner in which
he has put into practice here,
00:21:25.58\00:21:30.29
it makes all of these relational
positions very easy to follow,
00:21:30.32\00:21:36.59
it's easy to be submissive
again to someone who...
00:21:36.62\00:21:39.79
to a husband who is
doing things in God's way.
00:21:39.83\00:21:42.93
Yeah, he... like I said before,
he takes and he turns things,
00:21:42.96\00:21:48.60
he changes things, he
changes the power structures,
00:21:48.64\00:21:51.91
and really... puts everything
in relationship to Christ.
00:21:51.94\00:21:55.78
So, you might think
that in the Greco-Roman world
00:21:55.81\00:21:59.48
there was the
husband, who was here on top,
00:21:59.51\00:22:01.55
and everybody was below him,
00:22:01.58\00:22:03.18
now, the husband is brought
00:22:03.22\00:22:06.32
into... He has a
relationship with Christ
00:22:06.35\00:22:08.52
but so do all the
members of the family.
00:22:08.56\00:22:10.73
They also have a
relationship with Christ.
00:22:10.76\00:22:12.33
Shelley: They're all co-heirs.
00:22:12.36\00:22:13.70
Yeah, as long as the husband
does what he's supposed to do,
00:22:13.73\00:22:16.33
that's fine, but when
he steps away from that
00:22:16.36\00:22:20.20
when he becomes abusive,
when he becomes controlling,
00:22:20.24\00:22:22.84
then the other
members of the family
00:22:22.87\00:22:25.57
cannot follow his
lead. Shelley: Yes.
00:22:25.61\00:22:28.18
They cannot follow in
that kind of a pattern
00:22:28.21\00:22:31.08
and as Peter said to
the religious leaders,
00:22:31.11\00:22:33.95
we must obey
God rather than men.
00:22:33.98\00:22:36.12
Shelley: Yes.
00:22:36.15\00:22:37.49
Yeah, so now that
brings us back to verse 24,
00:22:37.52\00:22:40.49
This is Ephesians
chapter 5 verse 24,
00:22:40.52\00:22:45.29
"Therefore just as the
church is subject to Christ,
00:22:45.33\00:22:48.60
so let the wives be to their
own husbands in everything. "
00:22:48.63\00:22:53.84
Now how does
yours read in the...
00:22:53.87\00:22:55.74
Well, mine says, "Now as
the church submits to Christ,
00:22:55.80\00:22:58.87
so also wives should submit in
everything to their husbands. "
00:22:58.91\00:23:01.84
Shelley: Okay.
00:23:01.88\00:23:03.21
But actually this word
now, what does yours say?
00:23:03.24\00:23:06.15
Mine says, "Therefore. "
00:23:06.18\00:23:07.52
"Therefore,"
actually there's a word there
00:23:07.55\00:23:10.02
that can be
translated to do that, "But... "
00:23:10.05\00:23:11.95
Shelley: Okay.
00:23:11.99\00:23:13.66
So it kind of
presents a contrast,
00:23:13.69\00:23:16.29
we could translate it this way,
00:23:16.32\00:23:18.83
"But just as the
church is subject to Christ,
00:23:18.86\00:23:21.70
so let the wives be to their
own husbands in every thing. "
00:23:21.76\00:23:26.67
The "But" suggests a contrast,
it may be included to suggest
00:23:26.74\00:23:31.61
that the husband is
not exactly like Christ
00:23:31.67\00:23:35.38
as we already noted,
00:23:35.41\00:23:37.15
the husband is not
the Savior of the wife,
00:23:37.18\00:23:39.61
he's not the... he's the
head but she's not the body,
00:23:39.65\00:23:42.55
so Paul reiterates
his call for submission
00:23:42.58\00:23:45.39
and describes its
extent in verse 24,
00:23:45.42\00:23:49.32
he says, "in everything. "
00:23:49.36\00:23:50.93
Now, "everything"
means everything but...
00:23:50.96\00:23:55.03
it doesn't mean
everything, in the sense that
00:23:55.06\00:23:59.13
if a husband
steps away from the line
00:23:59.17\00:24:02.14
from which God has
asked him to be a Leader
00:24:02.17\00:24:05.14
and starts doing
things that are out of line,
00:24:05.17\00:24:08.04
with what God calls,
you're not to submit to that.
00:24:08.08\00:24:10.95
You're not to submit
to that which is abusive,
00:24:10.98\00:24:13.62
you're not to submit to that
which goes against Scripture,
00:24:13.65\00:24:15.85
because everybody in the family,
00:24:15.88\00:24:18.79
has an individual and
personal relationship with God.
00:24:18.82\00:24:22.09
God is the Supreme Head,
there is one Head of the Church,
00:24:22.12\00:24:25.39
and that Head is Christ.
00:24:25.43\00:24:26.90
And you know, in
my way of thinking,
00:24:26.93\00:24:29.56
and tell me if
you think I'm right,
00:24:29.60\00:24:32.17
there are so many
Scriptures in the New Testament,
00:24:32.20\00:24:34.67
that imply "equality," that,
00:24:34.70\00:24:40.44
I think that God
made the husband, "head,"
00:24:40.48\00:24:44.85
as representative and also...
00:24:44.88\00:24:47.02
I look at it as
he's a "Tie-breaker,"
00:24:47.05\00:24:49.15
in other words when
you think about Christ,
00:24:49.18\00:24:51.79
Christ doesn't control us,
00:24:51.82\00:24:53.39
the husband isn't
to control the wife,
00:24:53.46\00:24:55.36
but there is that
"Leadership," in our home,
00:24:55.39\00:24:59.76
there are decisions that I
make that my husband allows,
00:24:59.79\00:25:02.96
you know, he has
no interest in it,
00:25:03.00\00:25:04.77
he could care less,
00:25:04.83\00:25:06.17
there are decisions that he
makes that I don't care about,
00:25:06.20\00:25:09.00
when there is a decision
that we both have input on,
00:25:09.04\00:25:11.87
we will sit down and
discuss it, and reason it,
00:25:11.91\00:25:14.68
now, if we got to that
place where there's an impasse,
00:25:14.71\00:25:18.98
then, I would submit,
finally, if he were to say...
00:25:19.01\00:25:23.18
I mean, we would
sit and reason it,
00:25:23.22\00:25:24.62
but it's not, you know,
and I would submit to say,
00:25:24.65\00:25:27.72
"Okay, you're the
head of the house,
00:25:27.76\00:25:29.82
it's on you buddy," no...
00:25:29.86\00:25:32.29
No, what I'm saying is that,
00:25:32.33\00:25:34.70
I think I said this
on an earlier Program,
00:25:34.73\00:25:38.03
"Any animal that has
two heads is a freak,"
00:25:38.10\00:25:41.07
and so in a marriage,
if there are two heads,
00:25:41.10\00:25:44.01
it's not... God did this
for some practical reasons.
00:25:44.04\00:25:47.71
Yeah, I agree with you
that you reason things together,
00:25:47.74\00:25:50.75
you think things through,
00:25:50.78\00:25:52.51
you pray about it together,
you talk about it together,
00:25:52.55\00:25:54.78
and actually if the
husband is trying to do
00:25:54.82\00:25:57.49
what blesses the wife,
00:25:57.52\00:25:58.85
and the wife is trying to
do what blesses the husband,
00:25:58.89\00:26:01.06
it's not hard, they
come to some conclusion.
00:26:01.09\00:26:04.63
I like the idea of a tie-breaker
like a decision maker
00:26:04.66\00:26:07.73
but if you're making decisions
to bless the other people,
00:26:07.76\00:26:10.87
it's not hard to submit to that.
00:26:10.90\00:26:12.60
One of the texts that you
were kind of referring to about
00:26:12.63\00:26:15.77
equality is in
Galatians 3:27 and 28,
00:26:15.80\00:26:20.18
"For as of you as
were baptized into Christ
00:26:20.21\00:26:22.04
and have put on Christ,
there is neither Jew nor Greek,
00:26:22.08\00:26:24.58
there is neither slave nor free,
there is no male nor female:
00:26:24.61\00:26:28.78
for you are all
one in Christ Jesus. "
00:26:28.82\00:26:30.59
Shelley: Right. Tom:
So, we're all one in Christ
00:26:30.62\00:26:33.02
it's very interesting that
the same person who can write
00:26:33.05\00:26:36.39
Ephesians 5, is the same
person who wrote Galatians 3
00:26:36.42\00:26:39.53
and we have to
put the two together.
00:26:39.59\00:26:42.03
I'm always kind of disappointed
00:26:42.06\00:26:44.13
when people who
take one side or another,
00:26:44.17\00:26:46.60
in some of these questions about
male and female relationships
00:26:46.63\00:26:50.21
when they want to
just focus on one passage
00:26:50.27\00:26:52.24
and they don't want
to read all of them.
00:26:52.27\00:26:54.24
We have to read all of them
00:26:54.28\00:26:55.61
and Paul is saying
that we're all equal,
00:26:55.64\00:26:58.38
but while we're all equal,
00:26:58.41\00:26:59.98
there are also
different roles that we have.
00:27:00.02\00:27:01.88
He doesn't do
away with our equality
00:27:01.92\00:27:04.22
or the importance of sharing...
caring for one another
00:27:04.25\00:27:08.56
and being
respectful of each other.
00:27:08.62\00:27:10.19
Amen... and I just...
00:27:10.23\00:27:11.99
I'm very excited
about this entire series
00:27:12.03\00:27:15.53
and I can't wait to hear...
00:27:15.56\00:27:17.27
I know that J.D.
is going to be...
00:27:17.30\00:27:18.67
We're going to be talking about
00:27:18.70\00:27:20.24
what God has to say to husbands.
00:27:20.27\00:27:21.70
J.D. is going to be co-hosting
with you for the next few
00:27:21.74\00:27:23.81
to talk about what
God has to say to husbands
00:27:23.84\00:27:26.47
and once again, Tom,
the time has just flown
00:27:26.51\00:27:28.71
but that shows me
how interesting it is
00:27:28.74\00:27:30.81
and I just thank you
so much for being here
00:27:30.85\00:27:32.85
and thank you for bringing your
00:27:32.88\00:27:35.58
studies to us on this
topic. Tom: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:27:35.65\00:27:41.19
For those of you at home,
00:27:41.22\00:27:42.56
I hope that you are
having a wonderful time
00:27:42.59\00:27:45.13
listening to this
and learning from it
00:27:45.16\00:27:47.83
and applying it to your life
00:27:47.86\00:27:49.26
because God has a
plan for every life,
00:27:49.30\00:27:52.40
and He has the
perfect pattern as well
00:27:52.43\00:27:55.50
and when it is followed,
00:27:55.54\00:27:57.17
you can count on
many, many blessings.
00:27:57.21\00:27:59.54
Now, our prayer for you is that
God will multiply His mercy,
00:27:59.57\00:28:04.15
His love and His grace to you.
00:28:04.18\00:28:06.65