Welcome to Healthy Living,
I'm your host Margot Marshall.
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Our brain is constantly
re-wiring for better or worse,
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depending on what we
thing about and what we do.
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So how do addictions re-shape
our brains physical anatomy?
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Stay tuned as Dr. Eddie Ramirez
discuses neuroplasticity.
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In the same way that
addictions change the structure
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of our brains by
forming pathways,
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challenging those addictions
also contributes to what is
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called neuroplasticity.
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Here to give us practical
strategies for freedom from
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addictions is Dr. Eddie Ramirez.
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Welcome Eddie, lovely
to have you on the program.
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Thank you very much, it
is a pleasure to be here.
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This is a topic that
is a very common issue,
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the issue of addictions.
What happened is that our
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repeated behaviors start
strengthening neuro-pathways
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and those addictive behaviors
starts becoming second nature.
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And the person just
thinks about it and so forth,
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but the good news
is that there is hope,
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and that is what we are
going to be talking about today.
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Oh, that is fantastic,
hope is really important.
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One of the things is
that we need to change,
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all the time as we learn
new things, as we mature,
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if we get new
information, change is needed.
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How we handle that change
has an implication on this
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neuroplasticity. The stages
of change have been documented
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in different ways. For example
on screen, we can see one
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of the ways that
change has been documented.
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First Precontemplation. We
think about doing the change.
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Then contemplation, we are
really thinking that you are
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going to do the change.
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Preparation - you
get everything ready.
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Action. Then the difficult
part which is the Maintenance.
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Okay. Some people can
start, but that's the issue,
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are you going to
be able to overcome?
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Like Mark Twain, the
famous writer from America,
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he said stopping smoking is
very easy, I tried it a thousand
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times. So he was failing on
the maintenance side of things.
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He was starting but he was
not keeping with the change.
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That's where neuroplasticity
comes in to play regarding
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addictions. Because those
connections that have been
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strengthened by the behaviors,
if we stop those behaviors,
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those neuropathways are
going to break down and then
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new pathways can start to form
and strengthen and if we stop
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doing the other
behaviors, addictive behaviors,
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they are going to break
down and the brain actually will
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recycle some of
those pathways. Recycle?
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Well that's something new to me.
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Yes. So they will use some
of those materials to create
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new pathways and so forth.
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So there is hope,
there is lots of hope.
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We have helped many people with
addictions in our depression
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program. Actually one of
the focus, one of our hits,
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one of our causes of depression
that we identify is the cause
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of addictions. So why do
people use addictions in the
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first place? The reason why
most of the people do addictive
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behaviors are because
they are trying to change
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the way they feel.
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So, an addictive behavior helps
you change the way you feel,
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but unfortunately,
it is short- lived.
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So, you may change the way
you feel, but then it drops out
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it disappears and what happens?
You need another one of those
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dosages and then the pathways
for addictions start to be
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formed and as I tell my
patients is like an octopus
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that comes to you and
says, why don't we dance?
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Just grab my hand, and you
grab the hand of the octopus
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and before you think, you
have eight arms around you.
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Then your liberty gets impaired
and that's exactly the first
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lie he tells you.
You're free, you can choose,
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why don't you try it one
time? Nothing is going to
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happen to you. And as you
grab that hand of that octopus,
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there are seven more
that are waiting for you.
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That's a very good illustration,
I really liked the way you
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explained that. And
usually the addictions can have
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the negative consequences.
I mean, I'm sure you and I
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are familiar with people that
got into alcohol and this type
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of things, and that
self- destructive mechanism
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that really started
affecting them. But those people
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around them started
being affected by that type of
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wrong behavior.
Yes, because no man is
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an island and we do, we
affect other people as well.
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That's right, and this is
the beauty of this, we can have
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a lifestyle free from
those addictions, it is possible
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and we are not alone, we
have the help of God to help
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us with that change of
those connections at the level
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of our brain.
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Now we have different
ways that we understand change,
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one of them happens with
Dr. Prochaska from Harvard
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University, he documents
the stages of change in the
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following way. But
before I put him on the screen,
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let me share with you
an interesting story of
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one of our patients.
This patient, she had an issue
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with caffeine beverages,
which is a huge problem
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around the world, if it ends
with cola, it is probably not
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the best thing for you. So
she was addicted to one of these
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cola drinks and any time
she was thinking about having a
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thirst, what do you
think come to her mind?
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She was thinking
about a what? A cola.
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A cola, that's right, she
wanted a cola drink naturally.
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But you know, that's why it
is such an important work that
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3ABN does educating people,
that's exactly what we are
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here for and maybe one of
our audience here today is
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hear some of these things
and then the little desire
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here will come up. That's
what happened to this patient.
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She learned from a health
lecture that cola beverages
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are not the best for you. I call
them the great contradictory.
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Patient comes to me drinking
something with caffeine,
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caffeine will take away
your calcium from your bones,
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will drop your vitamin B from
your body, will drop the iron
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in your body, will have negative
effects of your melatonin,
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If you have too low
melatonin, you actually
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are going to age faster.
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Well that's not an
attractive thing to think about.
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You can follow my Twitter
account, I have plenty of
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documentation there that
I like to share @EddieRDMD
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for those that are interested.
And in that way caffeine
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is a trigger. It tells
you, look, I'm going to give you
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energy, but in the same
time it is taking away from you.
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So children's about these
negative effects that caffeine
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has so what she goes to
is goes to the first stage of
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change and we can
see that on the screen.
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The first stage of
change is called Unconsciously
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Incompetent. Which means in
other words, you don't know you
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need to change and
you don't want to change.
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So she comes to the health
lecture, new information comes,
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she becomes aware that caffeine
is not the best thing for you
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so, as soon as she
gets that new information
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and things start
changing up here with her desire
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to make some changes. She just
entered into the stage number
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two that we can see on the
screen, and step number two is
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called Consciously Incompetent.
So she's still only thinking
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about it...She's not changing.
Okay, but she at least knows
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that...That's right, but
now she is aware that she should
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change. Many people are
like that, that's what they call
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in America, sitting on
the bench. On the fence.
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They haven't made a decision
but at least you are having that
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information in
your head and so forth.
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So this stage varies
among people, for some people
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who are like Type A type
of person, hey this is better,
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boom, throw away and
let's start with the change.
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Some other people like
to chew it a little bit more
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and think a little bit
more about it and then they
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make the change. So
then what she decided to do,
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she realized, yes that's true
what they are saying is actually
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not the best thing for me to
do, these cola type of drinks,
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so what I need to do,
I need to make a change.
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So I am going to decide
that I am going to stop that.
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So she entered into the stage
number three that we can see
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on the screen which
means Consciously Competent.
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You are doing the change,
but the change is not natural.
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So, anytime she got thirst,
in her head automatically
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what came to her
head? Cola! I want Cola,
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but she consciously
said NO! I don't want Cola,
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I want water. And a few
hours later the thirst came,
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what did she
think about? Cola, NO!
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And consciously she would
say, NO, I don't want Cola,
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I want water. Something
she's got to think about
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all the time to
make it keep happening.
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That's right. So it's
not natural, it's a battle,
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it doesn't come automatically,
but you need to keep with that
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battle. And the person was
battling and the new thought
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and so forth, but then
she realized something.
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After a few weeks of
going through that battle,
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she realized at the
beginning it was much harder
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because the desire from
the addiction from the caffeine
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had more negative effects but
as she started stopping that,
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the connects at the level
of the brain neuroplasticity
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started taking place and started
becoming weak and weak and weak
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while the behavior of
water started to become strong,
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and strong and
strong and strong.
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So she entered into what is
called the 4th stage of change
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which is
Unconsciously Competent.
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So now, she is not thinking
about the caffeine beverage
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naturally when she got thirsty
what did she think about? Water.
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WATER! It had become
second nature, it had become
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part of her and that's
the beauty of neuroplasticity.
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Now that has to be very
good news I would say because
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sometimes I think when
people have had an addiction
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of whatever it is,
for a long period of time,
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they feel really trapped
and the think, I can't do this,
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this is just how it is, it's
too hard but it's good to know
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that it can happen. And
you talked about weeks for her
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to begin to feel as
though it was second nature
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but might it take a bit
longer that that? Yes it does.
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There are some addictions such
as cocaine addictions, such as
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Opioid addictions sometimes
is years and that's the thing
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that we need to understand...
But getting easier all the time.
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It gets easier but sometimes
the issues are the following:
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You have the addiction issue,
so that's a physical issue
00:13:58.10\00:14:04.14
with the addiction. But
also there are other layers.
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There are the friends' layers.
Oh! Okay, you may not be using
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it now, but then you meet your
friends quote, quote, friends...
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Oh, why don't you have some...
Look, I have some of this
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or that, one time,
it's not going to hurt you.
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And what happened? Voom,
you use it and you strengthen
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that in what you
were trying to weaken.
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That's why programs
like Alcoholics Anonymous
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recommend that
those people of influence,
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you shouldn't
hang around with them.
00:14:40.74\00:14:42.28
I have a relative of
mine, he has a brother,
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both of them have been
alcoholics in the past.
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One of them decided
to stop the alcohol,
00:14:53.72\00:14:56.93
he joined one of these
groups for support of alcohol
00:14:56.96\00:15:01.00
and it was thought that he
learned that he shouldn't be
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hanging around people
with these addictions.
00:15:06.50\00:15:08.74
It came to the point that
he couldn't see his brother.
00:15:08.77\00:15:12.97
He knew that if
he saw his brother,
00:15:13.01\00:15:17.05
he was going to start
with the addictive behavior.
00:15:17.08\00:15:20.45
That doesn't mean that he
is never going to see him,
00:15:20.48\00:15:21.98
but while he was going through
this process of neuroplasticity
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and healing, he couldn't
hang around him because he knew
00:15:25.82\00:15:31.49
where he was going to end
up, a drunkard and abusing
00:15:31.53\00:15:36.16
the alcohol and so forth.
00:15:36.20\00:15:37.53
So that would be a
tough one, really wouldn't it,
00:15:37.57\00:15:39.20
especially if it was
someone really close to you
00:15:39.23\00:15:41.34
like a relative? That's
right, that's why you need to
00:15:41.37\00:15:44.47
surround yourself with
people that can cause a positive
00:15:44.51\00:15:49.31
change. Go join a church and
another layer that you need to
00:15:49.34\00:15:55.92
add there is the
Layer of Accountability.
00:15:55.95\00:15:58.89
Okay. So you've got the
Addiction, then you got...
00:15:58.92\00:16:02.26
Friends. Social.
And Accountability.
00:16:02.29\00:16:05.56
Accountability. You need
to find somebody or someone
00:16:05.59\00:16:10.07
or some group in which
you are accountable to.
00:16:10.10\00:16:14.07
Because it is going to
help you with two things.
00:16:14.10\00:16:17.21
1. It's going to help you from
falling into the hole again.
00:16:17.24\00:16:21.68
And number two is going
to help you by the fact that
00:16:21.71\00:16:25.38
if you fall in the hole,
you have somebody to help you
00:16:25.41\00:16:29.18
get out of it. So, as
you go and join a church,
00:16:29.22\00:16:34.39
be vulnerable, tell them,
look I'm trying to quit this
00:16:34.42\00:16:38.03
and so forth. As
other people pray for you,
00:16:38.06\00:16:40.80
as other people
give you that support,
00:16:40.83\00:16:42.86
as other people give
you their phone numbers,
00:16:42.90\00:16:45.40
it's a good idea to have
some kind of connection...
00:16:45.43\00:16:48.27
So when you know you are going
to fall, you can get the phone
00:16:48.30\00:16:52.97
and say look, I am really
in dire straights, I'm about to
00:16:53.01\00:16:57.08
fall I need your help and
the fact that you are talking to
00:16:57.11\00:17:01.98
somebody helps you change the
focus from a nihilistic type of
00:17:02.02\00:17:06.65
thing... Oh, this is impossible
to conquer to there is hope.
00:17:06.69\00:17:11.36
And you know there are
different typed of addictions
00:17:11.39\00:17:13.56
alcohol, opioids, pornography,
rock music and all kinds of
00:17:13.60\00:17:20.57
things...Yes, even
screen time. Even screen time,
00:17:20.60\00:17:24.61
that's becoming
really high on the list.
00:17:24.64\00:17:27.08
So what we need to do, we need
to focus on a few at a time.
00:17:27.11\00:17:33.31
If you have many addictions
at at time, don't try to tackle
00:17:33.35\00:17:37.12
all, but rather prioritize
and start tackling them
00:17:37.15\00:17:42.56
and you are able to overcome
one... Once you see that's it's
00:17:42.59\00:17:46.33
overcome, then you go and tackle
the next one and so forth.
00:17:46.36\00:17:49.23
We have helped many people
for example, stop smoking...
00:17:49.26\00:17:51.77
We can see on the screen,
three of my studies that we did.
00:17:51.80\00:17:59.01
The first one is showing
how abstract thinking exercises
00:17:59.04\00:18:03.55
can help you in
overcoming your addictions.
00:18:03.58\00:18:06.35
The second one is showing
how tobacco users tend have
00:18:06.38\00:18:10.25
more depression and anxiety.
And the third one is showing how
00:18:10.29\00:18:15.02
sexual abuse...actually
those people that have gone to
00:18:15.06\00:18:16.39
sexual abuse are more
likely to use cigarettes.
00:18:16.42\00:18:22.36
That doesn't mean that every
single cigarette smoker has
00:18:22.40\00:18:25.43
had it, but you are
more prone to do that.
00:18:25.47\00:18:29.44
So, what are you going
to do for abstract thinking?
00:18:29.47\00:18:34.04
Let me give you the exercise
that we give to every single
00:18:34.08\00:18:37.88
one of our patients
for abstract thinking.
00:18:37.91\00:18:41.68
So, one of the abstract
thinking methods is to interpret
00:18:41.72\00:18:47.66
a proverb. Okay. In the
old days, they used to use them
00:18:47.69\00:18:51.43
more, they still use them
some but not as much as in the
00:18:51.46\00:18:53.60
old days. So when...You're
going to test me aren't you?
00:18:53.63\00:18:56.97
So when you hear a proverb,
the proverb doesn't necessarily
00:18:57.00\00:19:04.24
literally mean that.
00:19:04.27\00:19:06.57
For example, if I say
that it is better a hundred
00:19:06.61\00:19:13.72
birds in the sky
than one in my hand...
00:19:13.75\00:19:18.82
I am not talking about a
hundred literal birds okay,
00:19:18.85\00:19:23.79
I'm talking about something
that means something else.
00:19:23.83\00:19:30.87
So, in the same way... I
actually think it is better
00:19:30.90\00:19:35.20
to have in the hand than
in the bush. That's right,
00:19:35.24\00:19:37.77
which means that
you have conquered it.
00:19:37.81\00:19:39.54
That's something that we
actually have. That's right.
00:19:39.57\00:19:41.94
The others...That's right,
there there but not yours.
00:19:41.98\00:19:45.31
That's right. So in the
same way, to find currently
00:19:45.35\00:19:51.45
collections of
proverbs is hard...
00:19:51.49\00:19:54.16
Can I will give you
an example of that? Yes.
00:19:54.19\00:19:55.76
My husband loves looking at
luxury cars, I don't know why,
00:19:55.79\00:19:58.96
because we're never
likely to have one but,
00:19:58.99\00:20:00.33
I was with him one time and
he said, which do you think is
00:20:00.36\00:20:04.23
the best car here, which
one would you pick and I said,
00:20:04.27\00:20:07.00
that little red one on
the curb because I own that.
00:20:07.04\00:20:09.50
That's right, it's
better to have one in your hand
00:20:09.54\00:20:13.24
than a hundred
flying. Oh yes, that's right.
00:20:13.27\00:20:16.21
One of the ways to find a
good collection of proverbs,
00:20:16.24\00:20:20.92
accessable, not
complicated and so forth,
00:20:20.95\00:20:24.45
is in any Bible. It doesn't
matter if you are Agnostic
00:20:24.49\00:20:28.59
or Athiest, or Buddhist,
you can do this exercise.
00:20:28.62\00:20:32.09
So find a Bible and in the
Bible there is actually a book
00:20:32.13\00:20:36.80
of what? Proverbs. Proverbs.
It's a collection of Proverbs.
00:20:36.83\00:20:40.74
It actually is very handy
because it has 31 chapters.
00:20:40.77\00:20:46.68
How many days has a month?
Well some have 31. That's right.
00:20:46.71\00:20:51.58
Most of them have 31,
some more and sometimes less.
00:20:51.61\00:20:54.78
So what you are going to do,
you're going to read the chapter
00:20:54.82\00:20:58.52
of the day. So if today is
20th, you are going to read
00:20:58.55\00:21:04.66
in Proverbs Chapter
20, and I can assure you,
00:21:04.69\00:21:08.36
you reading Proverbs, you
cannot read them too fast.
00:21:08.40\00:21:11.63
You need to read them and
think about it, read them,
00:21:11.67\00:21:16.44
and think about it
and by doing that exercise
00:21:16.47\00:21:20.61
you are actually
stimulating abstract thinking...
00:21:20.64\00:21:24.68
You are strengthening the
frontal lobe of your brain
00:21:24.71\00:21:29.65
and in the frontal lobe of
the brain is where you have
00:21:29.68\00:21:32.39
your will. So by
strengthening the frontal lobe,
00:21:32.42\00:21:35.59
you strengthen the will
and that's why in a study
00:21:35.62\00:21:39.06
we show that those people
doing that abstract thinking
00:21:39.09\00:21:43.73
by reading Proverbs...
We actually did the Proverbs
00:21:43.77\00:21:46.67
reading in that particular
study, they were more likely
00:21:46.70\00:21:50.57
to overcome the
smoking habit. Is that right?
00:21:50.61\00:21:55.28
Wonderful. When I was
presenting this study,
00:21:55.31\00:21:57.41
the other researchers the
other researchers came and said
00:21:57.45\00:22:01.48
basically it means that
you have to think, is that it?
00:22:01.52\00:22:04.52
I said Yep! That's the
secret. You have to think.
00:22:04.55\00:22:07.46
If you are able to think, you
are able to strengthen that part
00:22:07.49\00:22:10.99
of the frontal lobe.
00:22:11.03\00:22:12.36
Another study that we
did and we actually presented
00:22:12.39\00:22:16.53
here in Australia, in
Perth Australia, you can see it
00:22:16.56\00:22:18.80
on the screen about
nicotine and how nicotine has
00:22:18.83\00:22:27.88
a negative effect on
your levels of anxiety.
00:22:27.91\00:22:32.78
This is the funny thing,
the nicotine is used because
00:22:32.81\00:22:39.82
a person feels anxious and it is
a way of dealing with anxiety.
00:22:39.85\00:22:44.09
Yes. Say that again.
Yeah. So they use nicotine
00:22:44.13\00:22:48.83
they use cigarettes
because it's a way of dealing
00:22:48.86\00:22:51.47
with their anxiety, so
this is a contradiction.
00:22:51.50\00:22:54.90
Their using nicotine
to deal with their anxiety
00:22:54.94\00:22:58.87
but if they use nicotine,
they actually have more anxiety.
00:22:58.91\00:23:03.24
What we are showing in
that published study is that
00:23:03.28\00:23:08.62
if you are able to
quit the smoking habit,
00:23:08.65\00:23:12.39
your anxiety levels are actually
going to go down to the level
00:23:12.42\00:23:17.43
of normal. So, the best way
of dealing with your anxiety
00:23:17.46\00:23:22.73
is not by taking another smoke,
but rather by quitting smoking.
00:23:22.76\00:23:27.20
So the anxiety might go up a
little in the first couple of
00:23:27.24\00:23:29.67
days...The anxiety does go up
in the first couple of days...
00:23:29.70\00:23:33.74
After that. But after
that, actually your anxiety
00:23:33.78\00:23:37.31
baseline levels are going to
go much lower than what you had
00:23:37.35\00:23:42.08
before. That's the
study that you did?
00:23:42.12\00:23:44.32
That's the study that I
did that is published in the
00:23:44.35\00:23:46.52
Draw Metabolisms
Review Journal. Excellent.
00:23:46.55\00:23:49.76
So that's really good to know.
00:23:49.79\00:23:51.29
This is a big sample,
this is not just a few people
00:23:51.33\00:23:54.40
we're talking about more than
a thousand people in the study
00:23:54.43\00:23:58.07
showing how it is possible
number one, to quit smoking.
00:23:58.10\00:24:01.74
and number two, how that is
going to have very beneficial
00:24:01.80\00:24:04.74
effects on your mental health.
00:24:04.77\00:24:07.98
Right. So we have
addictions that may require some
00:24:08.01\00:24:12.75
medical help and we can see
some of them on the screen...
00:24:12.78\00:24:16.12
For example: Alcohol, if you are
using alcohol every single day
00:24:16.15\00:24:22.56
and you haven't quit
alcohol for more than a day,
00:24:22.59\00:24:27.60
you may need to want to
talk to a doctor to stop it...
00:24:27.63\00:24:30.47
Benzodiazepines, many
medications such as Alprazolam,
00:24:30.50\00:24:35.97
Lorazepam and certain opioids.
00:24:36.00\00:24:40.41
Things like your heroin
and these type of things,
00:24:40.44\00:24:44.75
those you may need the help
of a doctor to be in your team.
00:24:44.78\00:24:51.42
Alright well that's good
to know because sometimes
00:24:51.45\00:24:53.36
we just have to do it all
by ourselves and if we can't,
00:24:53.39\00:24:56.52
we think there's
nothing that can happen.
00:24:56.56\00:24:58.69
There's help available,
even if you need that help
00:24:58.73\00:25:01.36
intervention, for example, even
in the issue of the alcohol,
00:25:01.40\00:25:05.87
very common issue, sometimes
people...Elderly ladies
00:25:05.90\00:25:09.87
very commonly this,
they have an alcohol habit,
00:25:09.90\00:25:12.64
they don't realize they
have it, but they do have it.
00:25:12.67\00:25:15.18
They go for a medical procedure
and suddenly they start with
00:25:15.21\00:25:19.58
something that is
called a delirium tremens.
00:25:19.61\00:25:22.08
Oh! And we have
medication to help with that,
00:25:22.12\00:25:25.69
but we need to know
that the person has an issue
00:25:25.72\00:25:27.86
and when we interview
them originally they say,
00:25:27.89\00:25:30.46
oh no I don't have any problem,
once in a while I drink a little
00:25:30.49\00:25:34.56
Sherry or something, you know.
But it is an alcohol problem
00:25:34.60\00:25:38.33
that they have. So make sure
that you talk to your doctor
00:25:38.37\00:25:42.17
about it, there is
help available for that.
00:25:42.20\00:25:45.21
So we want to close with ten
steps for those people that want
00:25:45.24\00:25:51.71
to quit addictions. It works
wonderful for the people with
00:25:51.75\00:25:56.15
the cigarettes, but
also other addictions.
00:25:56.18\00:25:59.29
Let us go on
screen and see them.
00:25:59.32\00:26:00.66
1. You need to choose
not to smoke. It is something
00:26:00.69\00:26:06.46
you have to decide
with all your heart.
00:26:06.49\00:26:08.56
2. No hidden cigarettes.
Don't say well just in case
00:26:08.60\00:26:12.87
I feel like...No
Nothing! Throw them away.
00:26:12.90\00:26:15.80
Deep breathing exercises.
Daily exercise, more sleep.
00:26:15.84\00:26:22.21
Lots of water,
drink lots of water.
00:26:22.24\00:26:26.28
Also take showers, not only
once but many time in the day.
00:26:26.31\00:26:32.05
The nicotine is going to start
coming on your skin and you
00:26:32.09\00:26:34.92
have to wash it out.
00:26:34.96\00:26:36.29
Avoid all the things
that trigger the nicotine.
00:26:36.32\00:26:40.33
which is caffeine,
alcohol, heavy meals,
00:26:40.36\00:26:43.33
heavily spiced meals.
Avoid high risk situations.
00:26:43.37\00:26:48.04
People smoke after
certain pattern and tell others
00:26:48.07\00:26:53.01
that you are quitting. Okay.
00:26:53.04\00:26:56.04
So many times it's a
special chair, many times it's
00:26:56.08\00:27:00.58
the breaks at work, many
times it's just after a meal.
00:27:00.62\00:27:05.59
So what you need to do, you
need to use neuroplasticity.
00:27:05.62\00:27:09.42
So because those patterns
call for those addictions,
00:27:09.46\00:27:14.43
what you need to do, you need
to change that so instead of
00:27:14.46\00:27:18.57
having the usual break with
your friends and having that
00:27:18.60\00:27:21.47
smoke, go for a walk, do some-
thing else instead of sitting
00:27:21.50\00:27:25.77
down after the meal...When
you were eating that heavy meal,
00:27:25.81\00:27:30.55
don't do that. Go ahead
and start doing some other
00:27:30.58\00:27:35.32
activities such as washing
the dishes...Ah, that's a really
00:27:35.35\00:27:39.32
good idea. So many people
have been able to overcome it.
00:27:39.35\00:27:44.23
You can, remember, you
are not alone, God is with you
00:27:44.26\00:27:49.20
and if you ask God for
help, I can assure you,
00:27:49.23\00:27:54.20
God is not going to let
you down, so surround yourself
00:27:54.24\00:27:57.87
with those positive people,
put yourself in the hands of God
00:27:57.91\00:28:01.48
and you will
experience those fruits.
00:28:01.51\00:28:03.55
Wonderful advice and I
am so pleased we ended up
00:28:03.58\00:28:05.58
with such a positive
way to deal with it because
00:28:05.61\00:28:08.05
I guess everyone has to extent
an addiction of some degree.
00:28:08.08\00:28:12.85
We are so pleased that
you have joined us today
00:28:12.89\00:28:15.69
and I hope you have been
challenged and encouraged
00:28:15.72\00:28:18.33
by today's program.
00:28:18.36\00:28:19.73
We look forward to having
you join us next time for more
00:28:19.76\00:28:22.90
secrets of healthy living.
00:28:22.93\00:28:24.27
Remember you can watch
our programs on demand,
00:28:24.30\00:28:26.97
just visit 3abnaustralia.org.au
and click on the watch button.
00:28:27.00\00:28:31.81
God bless you.
00:28:31.84\00:28:33.21