Welcome to "Healthy Living!"
00:00:15.34\00:00:17.01
I'm your host Margot Marshall.
00:00:17.05\00:00:18.88
Pain can be horrible and
if it's prolonged or frequent
00:00:18.91\00:00:23.95
it can significantly impact
on the quality of our lives.
00:00:23.99\00:00:27.72
Are there lifestyle practices
that can reduce chronic pain
00:00:27.76\00:00:31.36
such as back pain and
arthritis? Stay tuned!
00:00:31.39\00:00:36.13
Joining me in the studio we
have Jenifer Skues, a health
00:01:10.27\00:01:13.67
psychologist and Dr. John Clark.
00:01:13.70\00:01:15.94
Welcome to Jenifer and
welcome to you, John. Thank you!
00:01:15.97\00:01:18.51
Thank you for
joining us in this program.
00:01:18.54\00:01:20.68
And pain really is just
something that can really
00:01:20.71\00:01:24.85
spoil lives and be
very, very challenging to
00:01:24.88\00:01:27.45
the person suffering and
the people who love them.
00:01:27.48\00:01:31.02
So would you like to
lead off and we want to hear
00:01:31.05\00:01:34.39
some solutions today if there
are some for people about pain.
00:01:34.42\00:01:39.09
Thanks so much, John.
00:01:39.13\00:01:40.46
Personally, I'm
allergic to pain. Laughter.
00:01:40.50\00:01:42.83
I think many people
are, you're not alone.
00:01:42.86\00:01:45.90
And our story today
comes from the United States.
00:01:45.93\00:01:51.91
A lady came to some of
my meetings where I was
00:01:51.94\00:01:54.81
giving a
presentation on back pain.
00:01:54.84\00:01:58.28
This lady had had pain
since she was in, what we call,
00:01:58.31\00:02:02.25
junior high
school, 7th and 8th grade.
00:02:02.28\00:02:05.12
She was on muscle relaxers
and narcotics during that time,
00:02:05.15\00:02:11.06
and then she
graduated; she got married;
00:02:11.09\00:02:14.53
she had her first child
but during the pregnancy,
00:02:14.56\00:02:18.10
she couldn't be on all these
muscle relaxers because babies
00:02:18.13\00:02:21.00
don't need that kind of drugs.
00:02:21.04\00:02:22.74
And so she spent her
entire pregnancy in and out of
00:02:22.77\00:02:26.71
bed doing physical therapy
exercises so that she could
00:02:26.74\00:02:31.51
endure her back pain.
00:02:31.55\00:02:34.12
She went on to live a
life where she started her own
00:02:34.15\00:02:37.49
business doing seamstress
work and she would often work
00:02:37.52\00:02:42.69
in the garden on the
weekend for an hour or two,
00:02:42.72\00:02:45.43
but it would give her
back pain that would keep her
00:02:45.46\00:02:47.46
from being efficient in
her work during the week.
00:02:47.50\00:02:50.53
When she got into her
60s, the pain was getting worse
00:02:50.57\00:02:54.40
and so she decided
to go for medical help.
00:02:54.44\00:02:57.47
She had an MRI scan of
her back and she went and saw
00:02:57.51\00:03:01.84
a spine surgeon.
00:03:01.88\00:03:03.21
He offered to do a big spine
surgery where he would take
00:03:03.24\00:03:08.78
out multiple discs; put in
titanium discs; put rods and
00:03:08.82\00:03:12.55
screws in her back and not
long after having this consult
00:03:12.59\00:03:17.06
with the spine
surgeon, she came to my meetings
00:03:17.09\00:03:21.00
unbeknownst to me and
didn't even talk to me that I
00:03:21.03\00:03:25.43
ever recollect during that time.
00:03:25.47\00:03:28.07
But she came to this topic
on back pain where I present
00:03:28.10\00:03:31.97
all the principles of why
people have back pain and what
00:03:32.01\00:03:35.38
they can do about it,
lifestyle-wise, to fix it.
00:03:35.41\00:03:39.21
Well, I came back to that
community six months later
00:03:39.25\00:03:44.35
and she made an
appointment to see me.
00:03:44.39\00:03:47.19
And I often see patients on
the go while I'm on the road
00:03:47.22\00:03:51.56
just to give them advice.
00:03:51.59\00:03:53.29
Well she came along and she
wanted to tell me her story,
00:03:53.33\00:03:57.73
And so we sat down and she told
me the story about junior high
00:03:57.77\00:04:01.60
as I've related and she says,
"You know, when you gave that
00:04:01.64\00:04:04.81
talk on back pain, I
decided, okay this probably
00:04:04.84\00:04:07.64
won't work but I'm going
to give it a 10-day trial.
00:04:07.68\00:04:13.05
I'm going to try
your program for 10 days."
00:04:13.08\00:04:16.05
Okay, here's a
lifetime of back pain starting -
00:04:16.08\00:04:19.92
Yeah, I was just
working it out, if she was
00:04:19.95\00:04:22.02
what 13, 14- somewhere
there, early teens and now she's
00:04:22.06\00:04:26.73
in her 60s, that's
more than 40 years.
00:04:26.76\00:04:31.10
Many years of suffering!
00:04:31.13\00:04:32.47
Most of her life. Yes.
00:04:32.50\00:04:34.40
And so we sat down and
she said she had decided
00:04:34.44\00:04:38.84
she'd give it a
10-day trial and she did.
00:04:38.87\00:04:41.81
But after 7 days, she was
feeling so good, she decided,
00:04:41.84\00:04:44.88
"I'm going to go
work in that garden."
00:04:44.91\00:04:46.31
She worked in the garden
for 4 hours with absolutely
00:04:46.35\00:04:50.32
no pain and the next
week, no pain and when I saw her
00:04:50.35\00:04:55.06
in 6 months, no pain!
00:04:55.09\00:04:57.66
And so by changing her
lifestyle, she had changed
00:04:57.69\00:05:01.70
her life and she had
gotten back her life and she
00:05:01.73\00:05:05.47
had gotten over her back pain.
00:05:05.50\00:05:07.44
That's amazing! I'm very,
very, very interested to know
00:05:07.47\00:05:11.41
what you told her, but
before we do, I'd like to hear
00:05:11.44\00:05:14.08
a little bit from you, Jenifer.
00:05:14.11\00:05:16.18
Okay, well I do have a lot
of clients who suffer back pain
00:05:16.21\00:05:19.65
and it's a very
difficult thing for people.
00:05:19.68\00:05:22.82
It impacts their life because
they get depression and anxiety;
00:05:22.85\00:05:25.89
their high stress levels;
they don't sleep well because
00:05:25.92\00:05:28.26
of their pain - so we have
sort of multiple disorders,
00:05:28.29\00:05:31.29
but there are a number of things
I've found out or realized
00:05:31.33\00:05:34.56
about what causes the pain
and why it's maintained and it
00:05:34.60\00:05:37.80
isn't always the injury.
00:05:37.83\00:05:39.97
There are things like
what we call "cellular memory"
00:05:40.00\00:05:42.10
where the body has a memory
and when a blow has happened
00:05:42.14\00:05:45.77
to the body or you're in
an accident and there's pain,
00:05:45.81\00:05:49.38
the cells remember it.
00:05:49.41\00:05:50.88
And then further down
the track, events that are
00:05:50.91\00:05:53.11
similar to, because that
memory is triggered by the
00:05:53.15\00:05:55.52
five senses, so it might
be the sound of an accident,
00:05:55.55\00:05:58.65
you know, the body
responds with that same pain and
00:05:58.69\00:06:01.92
people don't connect it.
00:06:01.96\00:06:03.29
I have a very good example of
that and many, many years ago,
00:06:03.53\00:06:06.13
I went overseas and I was
given a smallpox vaccination,
00:06:06.16\00:06:09.43
and if anyone has had
one, they're very painful,
00:06:09.46\00:06:11.80
but I had a really bad reaction
and was very sick for a while.
00:06:11.83\00:06:15.17
And they use a little
pinprick and that didn't heal,
00:06:15.20\00:06:18.84
it took a long
time - a few weeks
00:06:19.34\00:06:21.34
to really sort of calm
down and 12 months exactly
00:06:21.38\00:06:25.78
to the day, for a number
of years, it would flare up.
00:06:25.81\00:06:29.08
And I knew that because I
checked my passport because
00:06:29.12\00:06:31.55
I thought well I had
that last year and then it
00:06:31.59\00:06:33.15
happened again, so it was
a number of years before my
00:06:33.19\00:06:36.32
body's memory disconnected that
pain factor. That's amazing.
00:06:36.36\00:06:41.16
And I didn't understand
it then, but now I understand
00:06:41.23\00:06:43.77
that every cell has a memory.
00:06:43.80\00:06:46.07
Yes, I've actually heard
that from Dr. Arlene Taylor
00:06:46.50\00:06:49.20
talking about cellular memory,
it's quite fascinating. It is.
00:06:49.24\00:06:52.67
John, do you want to
give us some of the strategies
00:06:52.71\00:06:55.64
that you gave to this
lady that helped her? Yes!
00:06:55.68\00:06:59.71
You see, when you're
dealing with back pain,
00:06:59.75\00:07:01.98
you're dealing with
a big problem that has
00:07:02.02\00:07:04.52
to do with blood flow.
00:07:04.55\00:07:05.89
A lot of times the blood going
to the spine is not sufficient
00:07:05.92\00:07:11.29
and so what we're
doing when we start targeting
00:07:11.33\00:07:13.90
the lifestyle factors
that will help, we're helping
00:07:13.93\00:07:16.46
improve blood flow.
00:07:16.50\00:07:17.83
We actually have this saying
in lifestyle medicine that
00:07:17.87\00:07:20.94
"Perfect health
depends on perfect
00:07:20.97\00:07:23.14
circulation." I've heard that.
00:07:23.17\00:07:25.31
And if you doubt that,
try stopping circulation,
00:07:25.37\00:07:28.14
health decreases rapidly.
00:07:28.21\00:07:30.61
But many people don't
realize that when you have half
00:07:30.65\00:07:33.38
enough circulation, you probably
have half enough health.
00:07:33.42\00:07:36.92
And so that's the
area where we've worked
00:07:36.95\00:07:38.99
to improve the circulation.
00:07:39.02\00:07:41.39
So for her, for my program
that I set out in the lecture,
00:07:41.42\00:07:46.66
I had them drink
a lot more water.
00:07:46.70\00:07:49.40
A lot of people don't keep
the blood vessels full of fluid.
00:07:49.43\00:07:52.90
If they're only half
full, they're more concentrated
00:07:52.93\00:07:55.64
and it takes water to
help wash out inflammation
00:07:55.67\00:07:58.81
and improve circulation.
00:07:58.84\00:08:01.14
The next thing that the program
depends on is good exercise.
00:08:01.18\00:08:06.61
You see if you exercise,
you pump the discs in your back.
00:08:06.65\00:08:11.89
Studies have been done
on these discs showing that
00:08:11.92\00:08:14.39
if somebody eats a meal
and then just sits down,
00:08:14.42\00:08:19.43
the food particles
never make it into the disc,
00:08:19.46\00:08:23.30
but if they get
up and walk around,
00:08:23.33\00:08:26.00
they pump the discs
and then the nutrition
00:08:26.03\00:08:30.27
will make it to
the center of the disc.
00:08:30.31\00:08:31.87
You see, discs don't necessarily
have blood vessels going
00:08:31.91\00:08:34.91
through them - they depend
on nutrition coming in from
00:08:34.94\00:08:38.21
the outsides through diffusion
or soaking in as we might say.
00:08:38.25\00:08:42.72
That's something I didn't know.
00:08:42.75\00:08:44.15
Alright, so that's
adequate water hydration
00:08:44.19\00:08:46.82
and then exercise.
00:08:46.86\00:08:48.86
Exercise!
00:08:48.89\00:08:50.23
Those two things, is there more?
00:08:50.26\00:08:51.89
And the exercise should
be periodic and so I have
00:08:51.93\00:08:54.96
them get up in the
morning and take a walk.
00:08:55.00\00:08:57.57
Walking is the best exercise
for pumping those discs.
00:08:57.60\00:09:00.64
I had them take a walk
immediately after breakfast.
00:09:00.67\00:09:03.74
It's a good time to walk
to make sure the blood doesn't
00:09:03.77\00:09:05.84
all stagnate to the stomach,
had them walk immediately
00:09:05.87\00:09:08.44
after lunch for the same
reason and then for the water,
00:09:08.48\00:09:12.38
we have them drinking water
periodically through the day,
00:09:12.41\00:09:15.25
usually 3 liters; one when
they get up, one 2 hours after
00:09:15.28\00:09:18.95
breakfast and one 2
hours after lunch. Alright.
00:09:18.99\00:09:21.89
And then the food
choices that we recommended that
00:09:21.92\00:09:26.09
I used in that particular
lecture, I had them eating
00:09:26.13\00:09:28.36
a whole plant food breakfast.
00:09:28.40\00:09:30.33
About half of which
would be something like oatmeal
00:09:30.37\00:09:33.54
and the other half
would be fresh fruit.
00:09:33.57\00:09:36.20
And then for lunch, lots of
fresh green leafy vegetables,
00:09:36.24\00:09:40.31
lots of salad-type
things, maybe making up half
00:09:40.34\00:09:42.98
for lunch but no oils and no
foods that are created through
00:09:43.01\00:09:47.52
inflammation, through
bacteria eaten on the food
00:09:47.55\00:09:52.05
as in rotting foods,
spoiling food, ageing food like
00:09:52.09\00:09:55.22
vinegar.
00:09:55.26\00:09:56.93
Some people say, "Well, but
I was told to take apple cider
00:09:56.96\00:10:00.06
vinegar for my arthritis."
00:10:00.10\00:10:02.63
And you think, Okay, well
some people ask me, "Wasn't
00:10:02.66\00:10:05.63
that a good idea?" I
say, "Well, why don't you be
00:10:05.67\00:10:07.77
more natural and just eat
the rotten apples? Laughter!
00:10:07.80\00:10:12.17
And people realize right away,
00:10:12.27\00:10:13.94
"Okay, that is a
rotten apple, isn't it?"
00:10:13.98\00:10:15.61
And what would happen if
you took one of those rotten
00:10:15.64\00:10:18.51
apples and instead of squeezing
it into a bottle for vinegar,
00:10:18.55\00:10:21.32
you threw it in a
batch of good apples,
00:10:21.35\00:10:22.68
what would happen
to the good apples?
00:10:22.72\00:10:24.05
They'd go bad.
They all go rotten!
00:10:24.09\00:10:25.75
So what happens if I
eat a rotten apple or take
00:10:25.79\00:10:27.96
rotten apple juice -
otherwise known as organic
00:10:27.99\00:10:29.79
apple cider vinegar with
the mother and put it down
00:10:29.82\00:10:32.73
here in my salad where it's
warm - what happens to my salad?
00:10:32.76\00:10:35.36
It all goes rotten!
00:10:35.40\00:10:36.93
And you look on labels,
there's vinegar in bread;
00:10:36.97\00:10:39.13
there's vinegar in salad
dressings; there's vinegar
00:10:39.17\00:10:41.90
in Vegenaise, mayonnaise,
ketchup, tomato sauce,
00:10:41.94\00:10:45.51
and so people end up
causing themselves trouble by
00:10:45.54\00:10:49.34
eating things that sort of
light the fire for inflammation.
00:10:49.38\00:10:52.81
So the diet was like
that, it's very interesting.
00:10:52.85\00:10:56.52
I'll tell you another story.
00:10:56.55\00:10:57.89
I had a lady came to me
with serious knee arthritis
00:10:57.92\00:11:00.72
and back pain.
00:11:00.76\00:11:02.09
She was also
suffering from leukemia. Okay.
00:11:02.12\00:11:06.53
She was on narcotics
for pain from the leukemia,
00:11:06.56\00:11:10.10
from back pain
and from the knee.
00:11:10.13\00:11:11.87
She was on disability.
00:11:11.90\00:11:13.80
She had had to quit her
job, she was a postal worker.
00:11:13.84\00:11:17.37
And she came to me with
this cancer and this arthritis
00:11:17.41\00:11:21.68
and so we set her up on a
very similar program but we made
00:11:21.71\00:11:25.35
sure she wasn't getting any
inflammatory foods in her diet.
00:11:25.38\00:11:28.25
And we had her doing hot
and cold showers to stimulate
00:11:28.28\00:11:31.19
blood flow and I left
that community because I was
00:11:31.22\00:11:36.59
usually in a community
for about two weeks and then
00:11:36.62\00:11:38.69
would move on to another
community to do meetings,
00:11:38.73\00:11:41.43
and some of her friends
called me and "Ah, you wouldn't
00:11:41.46\00:11:44.53
believe what happened to
Dottie (they called her Dottie,
00:11:44.57\00:11:47.40
that was her nickname)."
00:11:47.44\00:11:48.77
"You wouldn't believe
what happened to Dottie."
00:11:48.80\00:11:50.54
I said, "Really?
What's going on?"
00:11:50.57\00:11:52.01
She said, "She came to
our group and she was shaky;
00:11:52.04\00:11:57.05
she was sweating; she felt
like her heart was pounding
00:11:57.08\00:12:00.65
too fast and she felt
like she was under anxiety;
00:12:00.68\00:12:04.29
she didn't know what was
going on and then she realized,
00:12:04.32\00:12:08.76
"I haven't taken my
morphine in 5 days."
00:12:08.79\00:12:11.63
Ah, she was going
through withdrawal.
00:12:11.66\00:12:13.73
She was going through
withdrawals - there was no
00:12:13.76\00:12:16.53
pain to trigger her need
for narcotics and so she had
00:12:16.56\00:12:20.47
totally stopped and so today,
she is drug-free, pain-free!
00:12:20.50\00:12:26.17
Isn't that wonderful. Yeah.
00:12:26.21\00:12:27.64
Amazing!
00:12:27.68\00:12:29.01
And that sort of brings
to an important concept here
00:12:29.04\00:12:31.81
that there are foods that
feed pain and there are foods
00:12:31.85\00:12:37.05
that fight pain.
00:12:37.09\00:12:38.89
You eat fried oils,
you can expect pain.
00:12:38.92\00:12:42.06
You eat lettuce, tomatoes
and avocados and cucumbers,
00:12:42.09\00:12:45.99
and all the good fresh fruits
and vegetables, you can expect
00:12:46.03\00:12:49.13
pain to be a lot less.
00:12:49.16\00:12:51.33
This has to do with
inflammation isn't it?
00:12:51.37\00:12:53.37
Which foods cause inflammation
and stop inflammation
00:12:53.40\00:12:56.17
which is a wonderful thing. Yes.
00:12:56.20\00:12:58.01
Jenifer, you've got a
few thoughts and different
00:12:58.04\00:13:00.74
strategies that can
help with pain and I think
00:13:00.78\00:13:03.31
one of them was "pet therapy"
which really appeals to me.
00:13:03.35\00:13:07.92
I've had pets as
long as I can remember,
00:13:07.95\00:13:10.59
except until quite
recently, but we were
00:13:10.62\00:13:12.59
not allowed to have them.
00:13:12.62\00:13:13.96
All this comes back to
really being in the present
00:13:13.99\00:13:16.83
moment and doing things that
connect the body and get the
00:13:16.86\00:13:20.56
good hormones going in the body.
00:13:20.60\00:13:22.63
And there are a number
of things, pet therapy is
00:13:22.66\00:13:24.77
amongst them, I mean
humor is another one.
00:13:24.80\00:13:26.43
When we laugh we produce
lots of good endorphins which
00:13:26.47\00:13:29.34
are your happy hormones. Yes.
00:13:29.37\00:13:30.71
But they've done an interesting
number of experiments
00:13:30.74\00:13:33.21
on pet therapy and they
found that in one I read about
00:13:33.24\00:13:38.21
that they were taking a
dog into an elderly folks home
00:13:38.25\00:13:43.05
who were often bedridden
or in chairs and they had this
00:13:43.08\00:13:48.02
older lady sitting in a
chair and they wired her up
00:13:48.06\00:13:50.96
and they did blood tests and
they did the same to the dog.
00:13:50.99\00:13:53.29
And so they monitored both
the dog and the lady and they
00:13:53.33\00:13:57.63
found that when she
patted the dog and she connected
00:13:57.67\00:14:00.24
with the dog, that she
got lots of these endorphins
00:14:00.27\00:14:02.94
or happy hormones and it
really helped her just to be
00:14:02.97\00:14:05.97
in the present and feel good.
00:14:06.01\00:14:07.84
And as well, endorphins
decrease pain, so they're
00:14:07.88\00:14:12.41
a very good antidote to pain.
00:14:12.45\00:14:14.02
It's like we've been
given something in our body
00:14:14.05\00:14:16.28
that helps us with our
pain and when we get the
00:14:16.32\00:14:19.79
endorphins going,
the pain level goes down.
00:14:19.82\00:14:22.39
These endorphins,
they're related to
00:14:22.42\00:14:23.93
morphine, is that right?
00:14:23.96\00:14:25.33
I don't know about
that but it's possible.
00:14:25.36\00:14:28.10
Well they do say
they're like hundreds of times
00:14:28.13\00:14:31.97
more powerful
than morphine. Yes.
00:14:32.00\00:14:34.20
The endorphins are
that good at reducing
00:14:34.24\00:14:36.34
pain and I've found
that, but the interesting thing
00:14:36.37\00:14:39.37
with this experiment
was that when they measured
00:14:39.41\00:14:41.58
the dog, the dog was
having the same response.
00:14:41.61\00:14:43.91
Aw, isn't that precious!
With the endorphins which is
00:14:43.95\00:14:46.11
what wags its tail,
it's almost smiling! Yes.
00:14:46.31\00:14:48.55
So when they both interacted,
they both got the benefit.
00:14:48.58\00:14:51.89
Oh, isn't that special! Yes.
00:14:51.92\00:14:53.25
It's a wonderful
process. Not just one way.
00:14:53.29\00:14:55.82
So, yes, we do have a
natural pain relief but how many
00:14:55.86\00:14:59.56
people when
they're in pain laugh?
00:14:59.59\00:15:02.46
No, they don't, not
unless they've got someone
00:15:02.50\00:15:05.70
to make them laugh.
00:15:05.73\00:15:07.10
Well I've found
that with my father.
00:15:07.14\00:15:08.90
He was in a lot of pain in a
nursing home for many years and
00:15:08.94\00:15:11.97
when I'd go in and talk to him
and get him laughing, afterwards
00:15:12.01\00:15:15.04
- "Ah, that was so good,
I didn't feel any pain. Yes!
00:15:15.08\00:15:18.31
See, because of this phenomenon.
00:15:18.35\00:15:19.68
Completely had their mind
taken away, it distracts them.
00:15:19.71\00:15:21.58
Well, one, it focuses you
in the present but it also
00:15:22.42\00:15:24.65
gets the endorphins going that
bring the pain levels down. Yes.
00:15:24.69\00:15:28.32
You have any more
thoughts there, John?
00:15:28.36\00:15:32.39
I had a patient came to me,
she was actually a member of a
00:15:32.43\00:15:35.56
church I was
attending and she would
00:15:35.60\00:15:38.03
often complain of back pain.
00:15:38.07\00:15:39.70
In fact, it would keep her
from working, keep her from
00:15:39.73\00:15:42.30
coming to church.
00:15:42.34\00:15:43.67
And so I was
practicing orthopedic surgery
00:15:43.71\00:15:48.78
back then and so I invited
her to come to my office.
00:15:48.81\00:15:52.78
You know, come to my office,
let's check out this pain,
00:15:52.81\00:15:54.82
and see if there isn't
something that can be done.
00:15:54.85\00:15:57.52
And so she came to my office
and we sat down and I had her
00:15:57.55\00:16:03.19
fill out a sheet of paper with
some facts before she sat down.
00:16:03.22\00:16:07.83
She just filled the paper
clear full and had written
00:16:07.86\00:16:10.77
in the margins and
OH, okay! Laughter.
00:16:10.80\00:16:14.84
And so I asked her,
"Well just tell me about
00:16:14.87\00:16:17.01
the back pain and
how did it all begin?"
00:16:17.07\00:16:19.14
"Oh, 30 years ago, I was
out on the farm an MY HUSBAND,
00:16:19.17\00:16:24.65
(laughter) made me lift
the tongue of a really heavy
00:16:24.68\00:16:27.55
trailer, he should have known
better than to make me lift
00:16:27.58\00:16:30.69
that and when I lifted
that, I felt something go "pop"
00:16:30.72\00:16:33.92
in my back and I have
NEVER been the same again!"
00:16:33.96\00:16:37.99
And the story sort of
went on and on between what her
00:16:38.03\00:16:41.20
husband made her do and
she was upset and I'm like,
00:16:41.23\00:16:45.50
"30 years ago,
okay, what didn't heal?"
00:16:45.53\00:16:47.90
Bones heal in 3 or 4
months, ligaments, tendons and
00:16:47.94\00:16:51.94
muscles heal in 3 or 4
months, what didn't heal?
00:16:51.97\00:16:54.74
And, you know, it's like
it doesn't fit physiology.
00:16:54.78\00:16:58.11
Why is this happening?
00:16:58.15\00:17:00.62
And, I realized, you know,
with a big story like that,
00:17:00.65\00:17:04.55
the emotional mental factors.
00:17:04.59\00:17:07.06
The emotional pain was
to do with the body's pain.
00:17:07.09\00:17:09.36
The body's memory again,
every time she thought of
00:17:09.39\00:17:11.89
her husband, she thought
of that event and the back was
00:17:11.93\00:17:13.93
going out in sympathy,
literally. That's right!
00:17:13.96\00:17:17.77
And so I thought, "Okay,
what she needs help with is
00:17:17.80\00:17:22.04
the mind-body connection."
00:17:22.07\00:17:23.97
So I had a set of audio CDs
that were by some psychologist,
00:17:24.01\00:17:30.91
like Jeni, who cover
mind-body connection things
00:17:30.95\00:17:33.88
and I loaned them to her.
00:17:33.92\00:17:35.28
And I said, "Here, listen
through these, take some time
00:17:35.32\00:17:39.09
with them, sort of follow
what they're saying see if it
00:17:39.12\00:17:42.49
isn't your case
and isn't helpful."
00:17:42.52\00:17:45.36
Well, she listened to
this and she was delighted!
00:17:45.39\00:17:48.83
"This is wonderful;
this is just it; this is ME!"
00:17:48.86\00:17:52.63
And her pain went away and
for 3 weeks, she cleaned house,
00:17:52.67\00:17:57.44
she gardened, she planted
wild flowers out in the pasture.
00:17:57.47\00:18:01.38
She did all kinds of things
and then whether subconsciously
00:18:01.41\00:18:06.11
or consciously, she realized
that that farmer-husband
00:18:06.15\00:18:09.12
of hers didn't give her any
attention unless she had some
00:18:09.15\00:18:12.05
physical ailment
to complain about.
00:18:12.09\00:18:14.66
She got back her back pain
and she got back her attention,
00:18:14.69\00:18:18.59
and at that point, I
said, "Okay, I'm outta here,
00:18:18.63\00:18:20.56
if I solve the back pain,
I've ruined the marriage."
00:18:20.60\00:18:23.40
But all to illustrate
the mind-body connection is
00:18:23.43\00:18:27.40
huge in back pain.
00:18:27.44\00:18:29.90
There were several things
there because one of them is the
00:18:29.94\00:18:33.27
illness behavior - she
found that when she was having
00:18:33.31\00:18:36.14
pain, he gave her lots of
attention which she wanted,
00:18:36.18\00:18:38.45
so that kept it going.
00:18:38.48\00:18:39.81
So that's the illness
behavior, you learn to get
00:18:39.85\00:18:41.52
attention through your illness,
00:18:41.55\00:18:42.98
and did she ever
recover from that?
00:18:43.02\00:18:45.65
You don't know?
You don't know? Okay.
00:18:45.69\00:18:48.69
The other one is when
we have a traumatic event
00:18:48.72\00:18:51.66
which is what she had -
that was traumatic, but she
00:18:51.69\00:18:54.56
blamed her husband for it.
00:18:54.60\00:18:56.36
But a lot of the people I
deal with actually have trauma
00:18:56.40\00:19:00.14
where they'll have
an injury caused by
00:19:00.17\00:19:02.24
an accident for example.
00:19:02.30\00:19:03.87
So when they've had the trauma
and the back has been injured,
00:19:03.91\00:19:07.41
then they go and have
surgery and they've got plates
00:19:07.44\00:19:10.21
or screws and rods and all
sorts of things which is highly
00:19:10.25\00:19:13.25
traumatic and the whole body
doesn't like it - so they have
00:19:13.28\00:19:17.09
a more complex pain
process because it's not just an
00:19:17.12\00:19:20.29
injury and some of those were
injuries but they hadn't had
00:19:20.32\00:19:23.73
like that first lady, she
didn't go and get surgery.
00:19:23.76\00:19:26.76
If she had, she'd probably
would have had more problems
00:19:26.80\00:19:28.76
because she's got things
that are going to aggravate it.
00:19:28.80\00:19:31.03
So I find I have to
help people deal with it
00:19:31.07\00:19:34.37
in other ways as well,
and yes, listening to your
00:19:34.40\00:19:37.47
dietary principles, I do
do some of those and get them
00:19:37.51\00:19:40.24
on to the right
diet and plenty of water.
00:19:40.28\00:19:42.84
But I have found that, in
nature, there's an magnesium
00:19:42.88\00:19:46.55
chloride oil which they
harvest from the sea and it's a
00:19:46.58\00:19:50.75
natural, it's not a true
oil that it absorbs but it
00:19:50.79\00:19:54.12
actually helps to relax muscles;
relaxes and heals the nerves,
00:19:54.16\00:19:58.19
and it also reduces inflammation
as an anti-inflammatory.
00:19:58.23\00:20:01.70
So I often get them to
do things like rub that
00:20:01.73\00:20:04.07
on the area as well - so
they have extra things that help
00:20:04.10\00:20:07.67
because they've got
this permanent aggravation
00:20:07.70\00:20:10.47
within their system. Yes.
00:20:10.51\00:20:12.27
The other thing I
have to do is help them
00:20:12.31\00:20:14.44
to release the trauma
because they are carrying a
00:20:14.48\00:20:17.51
traumatic memory from
an event and it's not just
00:20:17.55\00:20:20.32
in the body, it's also
in the mind and the emotions
00:20:20.35\00:20:23.02
and the nervous system.
00:20:23.05\00:20:24.39
So then we do some
things to help them to allow the
00:20:24.42\00:20:28.56
body to correct itself.
00:20:28.59\00:20:29.99
And then, of course, we
look at stress management
00:20:30.03\00:20:32.76
and relaxation strategies.
00:20:32.79\00:20:34.40
You say, "Allow the
body to correct itself,"
00:20:34.43\00:20:36.70
what do you mean?
00:20:36.73\00:20:38.07
When the nervous system reacts
to an event and it actually
00:20:38.10\00:20:41.70
freezes it, it can't release
it, every time the person has a
00:20:41.74\00:20:46.57
memory of that event and
it might not be a conscious
00:20:46.61\00:20:49.24
memory, it might be that person
who was in a car accident,
00:20:49.28\00:20:52.25
is out somewhere and
they hear an accident nearby,
00:20:52.28\00:20:55.18
and they find their body
is starting to react because
00:20:55.22\00:20:58.05
the body responds to that.
00:20:58.09\00:20:59.55
But if I get them to realize
that's what the body is doing
00:20:59.59\00:21:02.56
on a conscious level and then
I use the breathing that we have
00:21:02.59\00:21:06.19
talked about before to slow
the heart rate down, even it out
00:21:06.23\00:21:09.76
and what happens is it
helps the nervous system
00:21:09.80\00:21:12.40
to release the
stress of that event
00:21:12.43\00:21:14.44
that they've just dialed up.
00:21:14.47\00:21:15.80
Could there be unconscious cues,
00:21:15.84\00:21:17.54
things that
they're not even aware of?
00:21:17.57\00:21:19.17
Well there are unconscious cues
but that's where because it's
00:21:19.21\00:21:21.81
embedded in the five senses.
00:21:21.84\00:21:23.75
Our memory bank in our
brain is a 5-sense around
00:21:23.78\00:21:26.72
video, it's not just the
2's, it's not just, you know,
00:21:26.75\00:21:29.62
sight and sound, it's all
five senses - so it can do
00:21:29.65\00:21:32.55
with touch, sight,
sound, smell, taste.
00:21:32.59\00:21:35.72
And when an event
occurs, all of those senses are
00:21:35.76\00:21:39.13
embedded with the event,
so if there are certain smells
00:21:39.16\00:21:42.33
around the accident, for
example, they might go to
00:21:42.36\00:21:45.27
a garage and they
smell a certain smell, it can
00:21:45.30\00:21:48.14
trigger the
response. Oh okay, alright.
00:21:48.17\00:21:49.90
And we haven't
mentioned arthritis, perhaps we
00:21:49.94\00:21:53.84
can have a little
word about that, John.
00:21:53.88\00:21:56.01
Well the principles of back
pain are the same principles
00:21:56.04\00:21:58.88
with arthritis and maybe
we'll touch on the exercise
00:21:58.91\00:22:02.98
in arthritis - some people
think, "Okay, well you know,
00:22:03.02\00:22:05.75
I'm not going to exercise
too much because I don't want to
00:22:05.79\00:22:07.69
wear out my knees before
retirement because I'm going to
00:22:07.72\00:22:10.19
need them during
retirement to walk around
00:22:10.23\00:22:12.09
and see the
world on my pension."
00:22:12.13\00:22:14.76
But in reality, if you don't
use it, you lose it and what
00:22:14.80\00:22:18.10
happens with your cartilage,
just like with your discs
00:22:18.13\00:22:21.30
needing pumped, your
cartilage needs pumped.
00:22:21.34\00:22:23.97
It won't get nutrition to the
cartilage if you don't use it,
00:22:24.01\00:22:28.28
and as you're walking, your
cartilage is going pump-pump,
00:22:28.31\00:22:31.71
pump-pump and you're
getting nutrition to it.
00:22:31.75\00:22:34.68
And that would also help
you understand why we might
00:22:34.72\00:22:38.75
say weight loss is
hugely helpful for arthritis.
00:22:38.79\00:22:42.42
If you have a pair of knees
that are supposed to handle
00:22:42.46\00:22:47.50
100 kilograms and
you weigh 200 kilograms,
00:22:47.53\00:22:50.67
what do you think has happened
to the warranty on those knees?
00:22:50.70\00:22:53.90
It's going to run out
a lot sooner, isn't it?
00:22:53.94\00:22:55.90
It's going to run out a
lot sooner and the more weight,
00:22:55.94\00:22:58.57
more wear and
tear, the more arthritis.
00:22:58.61\00:23:01.04
And so weight loss is
actually hugely beneficial
00:23:01.08\00:23:04.41
for reducing arthritis
and the symptoms of arthritis.
00:23:04.45\00:23:08.32
You can imagine if you
weighed nothing, how would you
00:23:08.35\00:23:10.52
have any arthritis - on the
other extreme of the spectrum.
00:23:10.55\00:23:14.52
And so our last discussion
of weight loss really applies
00:23:14.56\00:23:18.49
a lot to arthritis as well.
00:23:18.53\00:23:21.76
Now in the food section
again, thinking about what
00:23:21.80\00:23:24.60
foods are good for your
cartilage, your cartilage is
00:23:24.63\00:23:28.50
made out of collagen.
00:23:28.54\00:23:30.17
Collagen if you look
under a microscope, looks like a
00:23:30.21\00:23:33.61
rope, a 3-strand rope
that is wound in a spiral,
00:23:33.64\00:23:38.88
and it so happens that vitamin
C is the vitamin that is needed
00:23:38.91\00:23:45.25
to make that
collagen wind in a spiral.
00:23:45.29\00:23:49.09
And you may have heard of
what happens when you have no
00:23:49.12\00:23:52.03
vitamin C - the British sailors
would get scurvy and so they
00:23:52.06\00:23:57.13
started keeping something
on their ship to keep them from
00:23:57.17\00:23:59.77
getting scurvy that
would give them vitamin C.
00:23:59.80\00:24:01.74
Does anybody know what that was?
00:24:01.77\00:24:03.10
Limes - I believe. Yes!
00:24:03.14\00:24:04.77
They called them
"limees." That's right.
00:24:04.81\00:24:08.18
And so, if you are low in
vitamin C, you have three times
00:24:08.21\00:24:11.61
the risk of getting
arthritis, and vitamin D,
00:24:11.65\00:24:15.12
it doubles your risk if
you're low in it for arthritis.
00:24:15.15\00:24:18.05
You want to make sure you
get vitamin D from the sun;
00:24:18.09\00:24:20.22
get your vitamin C from good
fruits and vegetables - fruits
00:24:20.26\00:24:23.86
like kiwi,
oranges, lemons, pineapple.
00:24:23.89\00:24:28.46
And when you're sufficiently
nourished, then you're
00:24:28.50\00:24:32.23
much less likely to get
arthritis. Is that right?
00:24:32.27\00:24:35.50
Isn't that amazing, it
seems to always come down
00:24:36.54\00:24:38.97
to the common
denominators, does it?
00:24:39.01\00:24:41.21
You know, the good nutrition,
the plant-based diet, exercise,
00:24:41.24\00:24:44.88
water and it just seems to
be underlying all of the...
00:24:44.91\00:24:49.38
that we've even talked
about which is pretty much
00:24:49.42\00:24:51.35
most of them by the
time this series is complete,
00:24:51.39\00:24:54.36
that's really amazing.
00:24:54.39\00:24:56.32
Dr. Rosemary Stanton is the
foremost dietitian in Australia,
00:24:56.36\00:25:01.20
and she said that a
diet dominated by plant foods
00:25:01.23\00:25:07.44
is almost certainly the way
of the future - not only for
00:25:07.47\00:25:10.27
our personal nutrition but
for the health of the planet
00:25:10.31\00:25:13.31
because really we can't sustain
the production of animal foods
00:25:13.34\00:25:18.18
and we really can't now,
and it's just getting more so.
00:25:18.21\00:25:20.92
So the evidence is all
there and wherever you turn,
00:25:20.95\00:25:24.12
whether it's the "World
Health Organization" or the
00:25:24.15\00:25:26.45
"Australian Guide
to Healthy Eating,"
00:25:26.49\00:25:27.82
or people who really
shall I say not controlled by
00:25:27.86\00:25:36.77
vested interest, if I
could say it that way,
00:25:36.80\00:25:38.63
they will tell you that
this is the need - Dr. Esselstyn
00:25:38.67\00:25:42.94
and Colin Campbell, and so on.
00:25:42.97\00:25:44.87
The evidence is
definitely all there.
00:25:44.91\00:25:47.01
Magnesium also is a key
factor with arthritis and that's
00:25:47.04\00:25:51.11
why having the right
food diet would help that,
00:25:51.15\00:25:53.85
but depletion of
magnesium causes crystallization
00:25:53.88\00:25:56.99
of the calcium because it
puts the calcium in the bones.
00:25:57.02\00:25:59.35
If we don't have
it, then it's going to
00:25:59.39\00:26:00.86
crystallize and
go into the joints.
00:26:00.92\00:26:03.09
So using again the magnesium
oil can help to help with that.
00:26:03.12\00:26:07.36
Yes, you were
saying that the other day
00:26:07.40\00:26:10.03
and I've really
taken note of that.
00:26:10.07\00:26:12.27
Thank you for that, Jeni.
00:26:13.20\00:26:14.87
Anymore thoughts there that we
00:26:14.90\00:26:17.07
haven't really
covered today, John?
00:26:17.11\00:26:19.54
Another therapy that we'll
use for arthritis is charcoal
00:26:19.57\00:26:23.68
poultices which might
seem like an unusual thing,
00:26:23.71\00:26:27.72
but I'll give you an example.
00:26:27.75\00:26:30.59
What we do is we make up a
mixture of charcoal and some
00:26:30.62\00:26:33.82
food thickener that will
make it into a playdough that
00:26:33.86\00:26:37.66
we can apply over a knee or
an arm or an elbow or something,
00:26:37.69\00:26:43.20
and I had a gentleman
who was camping next to me,
00:26:43.23\00:26:47.00
we were out in our
caravan, and I asked him how he
00:26:47.04\00:26:50.34
was doing and we
sat down and talked.
00:26:50.37\00:26:52.27
He was like in his 70s
and he was still working,
00:26:53.21\00:26:56.75
driving a flatbed semi
and I asked him, "Well,
00:26:56.78\00:27:00.98
how are you doing healthwise?"
00:27:01.02\00:27:03.99
And he said, "Well you know,
I had arthritis in my knees.
00:27:04.02\00:27:06.55
All those years of jumping
up and down from the flatbed
00:27:06.59\00:27:09.79
of the truck had worn out
my knees and I went to see
00:27:09.82\00:27:12.59
my primary care doctor and
they sent me to the orthopedic
00:27:12.63\00:27:15.43
surgeon and the
orthopedic surgeon
00:27:15.46\00:27:17.27
signed me up for
knee replacement."
00:27:17.30\00:27:19.10
And he said, "Well
then my friends who knew
00:27:19.13\00:27:22.97
something about charcoal
poultices said, "Well why
00:27:23.00\00:27:26.54
don't you try a
charcoal poultice?"
00:27:26.57\00:27:28.48
He said, "I put a
charcoal poultice on my knees
00:27:28.51\00:27:30.78
and the pain went
away, and I'm wondering why
00:27:30.81\00:27:33.08
did I sign up for surgery?"
00:27:33.11\00:27:34.65
And so he ended up
using charcoal poultices,
00:27:34.68\00:27:38.52
canceled the surgery
and that was 3 years later.
00:27:38.55\00:27:41.69
He said about three times
a month, he would put on a
00:27:41.72\00:27:44.79
charcoal poultice
to take away the pain.
00:27:44.83\00:27:46.49
How would that work,
how would charcoal help?
00:27:46.53\00:27:50.10
Charcoal pulls out the
inflammation so that the knees
00:27:50.13\00:27:53.84
can recover on their own.
00:27:53.87\00:27:55.20
Isn't that such a
simple thing to do?
00:27:55.24\00:27:57.61
Well that's all we have time
for today but you can view our
00:27:57.64\00:28:00.88
programs on demand by
visiting our website at:
00:28:00.91\00:28:04.38
3abnaustralia.org.au
00:28:04.41\00:28:06.75
Just click on the watch
button and you can download
00:28:06.78\00:28:09.78
our fact sheets.
00:28:09.82\00:28:11.39
Now if you have a
health concern that you'd like
00:28:11.42\00:28:13.89
to discuss with Dr. John or with
Jenifer Skues, send an email to:
00:28:13.92\00:28:18.86
healthyliving@3abnaustralia.org
.au
00:28:18.89\00:28:22.50
and join us next time for
more secrets of healthy living.
00:28:22.53\00:28:25.80
God bless you!
00:28:25.83\00:28:27.47