Welcome to Healthy Living!
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I'm your host Margot Marshall
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Diabetes is one of
the 10 leading causes
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of death in the world,
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and it's emerging
as a global epidemic.
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Are you at risk?
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And is there
anything you can do about it?
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Stay tuned for the good news.
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With me in the studio
today I have Dr. John Clark
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and Jennifer Skues who
is a Health Psychologist.
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So, welcome John and welcome
Jennifer, to the program.
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Thank you!
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John, you have an amazing
story of someone recovering
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from type 2 diabetes
and I'd love you to lead out
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with that story.
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Yes indeed, and type 2
diabetes affects so many people.
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This is a story about somebody
who had it for 30 years...
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Oh my goodness! ...
and actually overcame it.
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But in case a few of our
viewers don't know what the
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diabetes is all about...
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It comes in two types;
type 1 is when your pancreas
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quits working and type 2 is when
you become insulin-resistant,
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your body won't
respond to insulin. Sure
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So we'll be talking
about a type 2 diabetic.
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I came into contact
with him when he had been in
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the hospital for 3 months.
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He was in and out of
the ICU; he had foot ulcers.
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ICU, intensive care
unit? Intensive care unit.
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That sounds pretty bad. Yes
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An understatement,
yes. Very serious.
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On different drugs and so then
when they wanted to take him
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to surgery, he was too sick,
but he had foot ulcers for which
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he needed surgery,
and the whole department
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in the hospital
was worried about him.
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They finally gave
up on doing surgery;
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got him well enough to
send home and he had to
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come back to the
hospital or to the dialysis unit
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3 times a week for dialysis. Wow
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So here's a man with a
30-year history of diabetes;
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he's got kidney failure,
and he's got foot ulcers
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for which they want to
amputate part of his feet.
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So there are complications
of diabetes, aren't there?
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The kidney failure
and the foot ulcers?
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Very common complications.
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Foot ulcers are the
#1 cause of amputations
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at least in America.
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And so, I went to visit
this gentleman in his home.
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And I sat down with him
and I asked him all kinds of
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questions that I knew
could be related to his disease,
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about what he ate like for
breakfast, lunch and supper;
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how much water he drank.
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What's this
supper? We call it "tea."
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That's right tea. Okay
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Here in Australia,
if we say "supper,"
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that's what you have after tea,
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yes, so anyway, just
to clear that one up.
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Yes as tea and he was
definitely doing some things
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that could be
contributing to his disease.
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Well then I sat down and
gave him a program based on
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the original diet
from the Genesis account,
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about good fruits and
vegetables, nuts and seeds.
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We had him drinking more water,
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had him doing exercise.
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You might wonder how can a
guy with foot ulcers exercise.
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I was wondering that,
yes. How did he do that?
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He had special
shoes made for his feet,
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and he also had some
walking aids like a walker.
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Well, he took the
program seriously.
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He realized he could die.
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I mean, there were
people in his church,
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that were praying for
him, thinking the next thing
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they're going to be
doing is attending his funeral.
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And, in fact, when they went
to visit him in the hospital,
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they said... "He was
like he had Alzheimer's."
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He didn't recognize them. Truly?
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He was just really in bad shape.
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That is... that's really...
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So it took him, to
get to the point of death
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before he would
do anything about it.
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Prior to that, his
lifestyle was not conducive
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to treating
diabetes. That's right!
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So did he know some of
this advice that you gave him,
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was he aware of
that before you saw him,
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or and just not doing it or?
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You know, he knew a lot
more than he was practicing.
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Okay! But look,
isn't that true of us all?
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You know, we know
better than we do.
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I think that's a
pretty fair comment.
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It is... it's like a
balance between what I'd really
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want to do if I just went
all abandoned-out and did it,
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and what I know is
really healthy for me.
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I remember a comment once...
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"Some people change their
ways when they see the light,
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and others, only
when they feel the heat."
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A lot of people
wait for the heat.
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And I guess that's
what happened in his case,
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but go on and tell
us what happened there.
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And so the heat was on,
I mean, he is on dialysis,
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and they told him he
would never get off of dialysis.
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Tell us what dialysis is, John.
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When your kidneys fail...
your kidneys are sort of like
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built in dialysis machines,
and so they make a machine
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outside your body
to take your blood out.
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They literally stick needles
in your arm, take the blood out,
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run it through a
machine that purifies it,
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and then run it
back into your body.
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And so, 3 times a week for 3
to 4 hours, he will sit there
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and let his blood go
through a machine and come back.
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That must be
incredibly stressful.
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I mean, the stress of having
diabetes, being at that point,
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and his family would
have been really stressed,
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then having to go
and have all this done...
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I mean, just to have
your blood removed and that,
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so that would have
not helped the diabetes
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in the sense of
stress is a problem.
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That's true, it's true...
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So he has gone home now
and he is having this dialysis
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3 times a week and taking
up about half-a-day of his life
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3 times a week and
his family. Yeah, go on...
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And so we put him on a program
with foods good for the kidneys,
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drinking a lot more water than
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the dialysis people
said he should be drinking,
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and exercising
periodically through the day,
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not just one big marathon
to see how far he could walk,
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but little walks
periodically, little x2,
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use his upper body
strength for doing things,
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and so he took
the program seriously.
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Six weeks later, he came to
his church group and he said,
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"I have a
testimony," he raised his hand,
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and they were
glad to hear from him.
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He said, "I've said
goodbye to three things."
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He said, "Number one,
I've said goodbye to diabetes.
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Hmm, 6 weeks... Six weeks!
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He has had it for 30
years and he was ready to die
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from complications and in 6
weeks, he said goodbye to it.
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He was no longer on
insulin and no longer on drugs.
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And not on
dialysis, I presume...
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Well, dialysis
was the next thing.
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Then he said, "I've
lost 20 kilos!" Wow!
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He wasn't so sure about that,
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he sort of felt like
he'd like to weigh more,
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but he wasn't
overly thin or anything,
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but he sort of gave a
funny comment on that...
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"Well, I guess
I didn't need it."
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Most people want to
lose more and not weigh more.
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And then he said
#3, "They've told me,
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I don't have to come
back to dialysis anymore,
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my kidneys are
functioning normally."
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Isn't that amazing!
That is just incredible!
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So those 3 things
were what helped him.
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We might get a
little bit more information
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from you shortly about exactly
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what you got him
eating and so on.
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But Jenny, is
there anything else,
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you're a health
psychologist, Jennifer,
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and is there anything else that
might have contributed to his...
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Well stress is a huge
factor, in fact, they're saying
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about 90% of these types of
illnesses are stress-related
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and lifestyle, of course,
but when you're stressed,
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your body is full of
adrenalin and cortisol.
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It's revving the
engine constantly.
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It means the
kidneys are doing overtime.
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The insulin production is
being stressed, so there's a lot
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that causes the kidneys
to be impacted that way,
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and it wouldn't have been
just stress in a short time.
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This would have been long-term
stress and then you combine
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that with diet
and lack of exercise,
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not enough fluids in the system,
they've got physiological
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stresses as well as
your psychological stressors.
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Yes and that's interesting,
isn't it, because it's not just,
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I mean all of those things
that you mentioned are very
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powerful, but there's
more to it and that 90%
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has me intrigued. Oh, it's huge!
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Your sanity at 90% of
illnesses and lifestyle
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are stress-related.
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If you have a look at
your cancers, your diabetes,
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all of these illnesses can
be prevented by people doing
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stress management and
changing their lifestyle.
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Well I do the stress management,
John changes the lifestyle.
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But you're a good combination.
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We are, we do
work well together.
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That's really
great and it's wonderful
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to have both of you
here so that we can get
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the input from both of
you because you're both
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experts in your field.
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Let's go back to you,
John, and just maybe give us a
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little bit more information
about exactly what it was
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in terms of what you asked
Pastor?Foist to start eating
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or not eating
as the case may be.
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What were the
changes that he made?
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We especially asked
him to lay off of oils.
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We're talking fats in the
diet, anything that came from a
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bottle, like corn oil or
olive oil or coconut oil.
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The oils tend to cause the cells
to fill up quickly with calories
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and then they're resistant
to having sugar pushed into them
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and the person ends up with
high blood sugar, diabetes...
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And so we asked him not
to eat any refined foods
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including oils, but the
other refined foods that we
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wanted him to avoid
was any refined grains.
00:10:28.19\00:10:31.86
Now in the plant... Such
as um, what would they be
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White flour?
Yeah, the white flour.
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Yes, white flour,
white pasta, white rice...
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Cookies and cakes
and... Boxed cereals
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Yeah and all that
stuff people really like.
00:10:45.81\00:10:49.38
And so we have this
patient who is wanting
00:10:49.41\00:10:52.78
to stay off of these
things because we want to make
00:10:52.81\00:10:56.52
sure he gets the fiber
and if you have the fiber,
00:10:56.55\00:11:00.32
then the fiber has the minerals
and the minerals are what
00:11:00.36\00:11:03.26
the diabetic needs like
magnesium and chromium to help
00:11:03.29\00:11:06.70
fight the insulin resistance.
00:11:06.73\00:11:08.73
It takes chromium to
get the sugar to the cells.
00:11:08.76\00:11:11.53
So we can't have
him eating food that's
00:11:11.57\00:11:14.10
depleted of important minerals.
00:11:14.14\00:11:15.80
No... Before you go on, I
think we've got a photo of
00:11:15.84\00:11:19.94
Pastor Foist? it
might be nice if we
00:11:19.97\00:11:21.64
could have a look
at that, and you can...
00:11:21.71\00:11:23.04
This is when he's starting
to get a bit better, I believe,
00:11:23.08\00:11:25.28
a new covering, so
he's looking pretty good.
00:11:25.31\00:11:27.55
Oh there we go,
oh look at that...
00:11:27.58\00:11:28.92
This is about 3 months
after he was into the program,
00:11:28.95\00:11:31.59
and he was coming to
church with no walking aid.
00:11:31.62\00:11:34.56
Which is amazing! Yes!
00:11:34.59\00:11:36.62
And he continued to
improve dramatically
00:11:36.66\00:11:39.39
even after
this. Even after that?
00:11:39.43\00:11:41.06
So, he had already said goodbye
to diabetes and dialysis,
00:11:41.13\00:11:45.23
and some weight and he continued
to improve - that's beautiful.
00:11:45.27\00:11:50.01
See, one of the other problems
with something like diabetes
00:11:50.04\00:11:52.81
is to do with the blood sugar
levels and with the diabetes,
00:11:52.84\00:11:56.85
the blood sugar
levels can shoot up,
00:11:56.88\00:11:58.55
but they can also
drop right down. Yes
00:11:58.58\00:12:00.75
And when, psychologically or
emotionally, when that happens,
00:12:00.78\00:12:04.35
it's a rollercoaster emotionally
and your stress levels
00:12:04.39\00:12:07.42
go up and down at the same time,
00:12:07.46\00:12:09.49
and it actually
mimics like a bipolar effect.
00:12:09.52\00:12:12.29
So that means someone
whose blood sugars are
00:12:12.33\00:12:15.40
going up and down all the time,
00:12:15.43\00:12:17.13
it's like they've experienced
that heightened mania,
00:12:17.17\00:12:19.50
they're on a high or
that low depression. Right
00:12:19.53\00:12:22.67
So it does impact the
psychology of the person,
00:12:22.70\00:12:26.98
and how they function.
00:12:27.01\00:12:28.34
And often what I do with
my clients is check with them.
00:12:28.38\00:12:30.85
Yeah, and they're coming in and
their mood is all over the place
00:12:30.88\00:12:33.11
and often a psychiatrist
would diagnose them with
00:12:33.15\00:12:35.88
bipolar disorder
- when actual fact,
00:12:35.92\00:12:38.02
it's blood sugar-related or
stress-related, it's amazing.
00:12:38.05\00:12:42.02
That's incredible!
So you would be getting
00:12:42.06\00:12:43.96
treated for the wrong disorder.
00:12:43.99\00:12:45.79
And that means you're
going to prevent the diabetes,
00:12:45.83\00:12:47.60
so I work with some of
John's principles in that sense
00:12:47.63\00:12:50.67
of getting them to
monitor their diet,
00:12:50.70\00:12:52.67
get rid of sugars in
their diet and refined foods.
00:12:52.70\00:12:55.44
And the difference is huge. Yes
00:12:55.47\00:12:57.64
Yes, it often
treats the problem.
00:12:57.67\00:12:59.67
About these refined
foods, let me say this...
00:12:59.71\00:13:03.01
In Australia and I think
it's probably pretty true
00:13:03.04\00:13:05.85
in other developed countries,
more than half of the food
00:13:05.88\00:13:10.62
budget goes on
those kinds of things.
00:13:10.65\00:13:13.22
I know, for the
junk food factor.
00:13:13.25\00:13:14.89
Foods that don't form
the basis of a healthy diet.
00:13:14.92\00:13:17.26
More than half,
it's not good is it?
00:13:17.29\00:13:20.10
And it must have been quite
difficult, John, I think for...
00:13:20.13\00:13:23.43
we haven't really heard
exactly what you told him to do
00:13:23.47\00:13:28.17
or not to do, or you've
started with refined foods,
00:13:28.20\00:13:31.14
but it must have
been a difficult thing.
00:13:31.17\00:13:33.01
Did he find it
difficult to make the changes?
00:13:33.04\00:13:35.64
He found it pretty hard.
00:13:35.68\00:13:37.01
It was challenging for
him, and in fact, this had been
00:13:37.05\00:13:39.81
his struggle - he
knew some of the things
00:13:39.85\00:13:41.42
he should and
shouldn't be doing.
00:13:41.45\00:13:42.78
But I got several
calls from his wife saying,
00:13:42.82\00:13:46.05
"Couldn't we just use a
little bit of olive oil or... "
00:13:46.09\00:13:49.06
You know, he wants
this and he wants that,
00:13:49.09\00:13:52.39
and it's a struggle to
make changes, isn't it Jenny?
00:13:52.43\00:13:55.46
And this is what I help people
to do because if I'm asking
00:13:55.50\00:13:58.27
them to change, like he had
to, you really need to help them
00:13:58.30\00:14:02.40
with it and I find with
change, if you get them not to
00:14:02.44\00:14:05.44
focus on the whole
lot, so don't look at all
00:14:05.47\00:14:07.71
I have to give up...
let's just focus on one thing,
00:14:07.74\00:14:10.48
and work with that and
what we call "chunking it."
00:14:10.51\00:14:13.08
So when the brain has a
chunk, it can deal with it,
00:14:13.11\00:14:15.48
but when it looks
at the bigger picture,
00:14:15.52\00:14:16.85
and that's what he
would have done for years.
00:14:16.89\00:14:18.52
He would have
been thinking about,
00:14:18.55\00:14:20.06
"Oh, I've got all these
changes and I can't do it,"
00:14:20.09\00:14:22.52
and it was stressing
him, so he never did it.
00:14:22.56\00:14:25.29
And imagine the family,
they would have been highly
00:14:25.33\00:14:27.80
stressed with all
that he was going through.
00:14:27.83\00:14:29.86
John, you mentioned his
wife ringing you up and saying
00:14:29.90\00:14:32.87
he wants some oil
and so on, and can we...
00:14:32.90\00:14:35.67
Now that's a very interesting
thing because I'm getting
00:14:35.70\00:14:39.27
an idea that she must
have been very supportive
00:14:39.31\00:14:41.68
and helping him
to stay on track,
00:14:41.71\00:14:44.88
a bit of
accountability there, yes?
00:14:44.91\00:14:47.05
Very supportive and
asking me questions,
00:14:47.08\00:14:49.78
and looking for
recipes, and asking about his
00:14:49.82\00:14:53.92
activity and there
was a lot going on there.
00:14:53.96\00:14:56.99
So here's a guy
that's circling the drain,
00:14:57.03\00:14:59.46
looking like he's going to die.
00:14:59.49\00:15:01.36
We didn't just
take him in baby steps,
00:15:01.40\00:15:03.10
we gave him the whole
program at once, boatloads. Yes
00:15:03.13\00:15:07.17
It was life-threatening, what
he had was this "end-stage,"
00:15:07.20\00:15:09.70
and that's when you
have to do radical with the
00:15:09.74\00:15:11.77
"you do or I do" - that's when
you have to really push them
00:15:11.81\00:15:15.61
to do that.
00:15:15.64\00:15:16.98
Do an
intervention. That's right.
00:15:17.01\00:15:19.01
And I think that it's
very important to realize,
00:15:19.05\00:15:21.35
at this point, that
people who have support like
00:15:21.38\00:15:25.12
he was obviously
getting is a huge difference.
00:15:25.15\00:15:28.26
And they find that a
supportive environment
00:15:28.29\00:15:31.39
is the best
predictor of long-term success,
00:15:31.43\00:15:34.56
so he was a very
fortunate person and I guess
00:15:34.60\00:15:37.47
not everybody is going to
have that kind of support.
00:15:37.50\00:15:40.30
In fact, it
might be the opposite.
00:15:40.34\00:15:41.67
It might be people who
just think, "it's not for me,
00:15:41.70\00:15:46.04
you're on your own, I
can't be on board with that."
00:15:46.07\00:15:47.68
I have a lot of clients
who don't have that support,
00:15:47.71\00:15:50.08
and a lot of their
problem is they feel so alone,
00:15:50.11\00:15:52.71
and they don't
have motivation because
00:15:52.75\00:15:55.12
there's no one to support them.
00:15:55.15\00:15:56.79
So when I work with them
closely, I am part of their
00:15:56.85\00:15:59.65
support system and we
sort of look at supports
00:15:59.69\00:16:02.52
because they don't have the
social supports at that point.
00:16:02.56\00:16:04.96
But once they improve a
bit, we can look at them getting
00:16:04.99\00:16:07.13
out and meeting people
and, you know, because that's
00:16:07.16\00:16:09.56
part of health is to
have those support systems.
00:16:09.60\00:16:12.27
Absolutely, absolutely, huge!
00:16:12.30\00:16:15.40
And, so a little
bit more about...
00:16:15.44\00:16:17.87
About his diet, especially
important for somebody
00:16:17.91\00:16:21.91
who has had end stage diabetes,
00:16:21.94\00:16:24.68
and it has gone
to kidney failure,
00:16:24.71\00:16:27.38
is that we want to have them
eat foods that don't put more
00:16:27.42\00:16:31.72
stress on the kidneys.
00:16:31.75\00:16:33.52
Anything that's going to
take more time for the kidneys
00:16:33.56\00:16:37.06
to work with is
going to slow them down.
00:16:37.09\00:16:39.86
So we had him taking
away any foods... fried foods,
00:16:39.89\00:16:43.00
any food created to
rotting, spoiling, fermenting,
00:16:43.03\00:16:46.40
aging, like
vinegar, cheese, soy sauce...
00:16:46.43\00:16:51.44
anything that has any of the
taints of rot in it is going to
00:16:51.47\00:16:54.98
put more work to the kidneys.
00:16:55.01\00:16:57.38
So we had him on
a very strict diet,
00:16:57.41\00:16:59.98
and then exercise
was extremely important.
00:17:00.02\00:17:03.59
If you just sit and do nothing,
your kidneys will slow down
00:17:03.62\00:17:06.39
and almost stop. Wow
00:17:06.42\00:17:08.12
Some patients, you put them in
the hospital, put them in a bed,
00:17:08.16\00:17:10.86
and their kidneys
will just slow way down.
00:17:10.89\00:17:12.96
And so they give them
a certain drug that will
00:17:12.99\00:17:16.13
pick them back up again.
00:17:16.16\00:17:19.03
So we had him doing
little activities all day long.
00:17:19.07\00:17:21.40
You see, if you sit in a
chair for a number of hours,
00:17:21.44\00:17:24.71
you can hardly counteract
that by any amount of activity.
00:17:24.74\00:17:28.54
The amount you sat doing
nothing is very traumatic
00:17:28.58\00:17:31.71
to your system.
Say that again...
00:17:31.75\00:17:33.18
You're saying if you
sit for hours doing nothing,
00:17:33.21\00:17:36.69
it's hard to counteract
what happened in that time?
00:17:36.72\00:17:39.69
That's right, it's not like
you could sit all day at a job,
00:17:39.72\00:17:43.19
on a computer and then go
run a marathon and fix the fact
00:17:43.22\00:17:46.66
that you had been
sitting there all day.
00:17:46.70\00:17:48.06
That's serious isn't it?
00:17:48.10\00:17:52.63
Because if people who
do, I'm thinking of myself,
00:17:52.67\00:17:56.30
I tend to do a lot of that
kind of work and, hmm, so it's
00:17:56.34\00:18:03.38
important to get up
and move frequently.
00:18:03.41\00:18:06.21
How frequently should
people, just in general,
00:18:06.25\00:18:09.15
how frequently
should they be not sitting.
00:18:09.18\00:18:11.62
How frequently should
they break that sitting?
00:18:11.65\00:18:15.26
Well, if you can, it would be
good to get up every 30 minutes.
00:18:15.29\00:18:18.89
It's good for the brain too,
I mean, after about 30 minutes
00:18:18.93\00:18:21.73
of sitting there,
your brain has gone into
00:18:21.76\00:18:24.00
sleep wave
practically. Slows down, yes,
00:18:24.03\00:18:26.43
and it can't focus and
can't concentrate easily.
00:18:26.47\00:18:29.17
So you need to get up
and get movement going.
00:18:29.20\00:18:31.27
It really makes a difference.
00:18:31.31\00:18:32.81
There are
businesses who have their
00:18:32.84\00:18:35.14
board meetings
standing up and they have the
00:18:35.18\00:18:36.81
higher tables
now. What a good idea!
00:18:36.85\00:18:38.81
Yeah, they're actually
doing this, so it's good.
00:18:38.88\00:18:41.45
But that's awful to think,
you know, I can't get away
00:18:41.48\00:18:45.19
from this, awful to think that
you can't undo what happened
00:18:45.22\00:18:48.79
during that time.
00:18:48.82\00:18:50.16
When you sit there,
your blood slows down,
00:18:50.19\00:18:53.09
inflammation builds up,
your blood vessels get stiff,
00:18:53.13\00:18:56.90
you have to counteract that
or you're going to end up with
00:18:56.93\00:18:59.83
an inflammatory disease. Yes
00:18:59.87\00:19:02.20
So I guess, the
essential thing you did was you
00:19:02.24\00:19:05.47
were getting him moving
more and moving frequently.
00:19:05.51\00:19:08.11
How much water were
you getting him to drink?
00:19:08.14\00:19:10.48
I had him take 3 liters
of water a day. Ooo, okay.
00:19:10.51\00:19:13.62
One when he got up,
one, 2 hours after breakfast,
00:19:13.65\00:19:17.29
and one, 2 hours after
lunch so it wouldn't interfere
00:19:17.32\00:19:19.82
with his digestion. Okay
00:19:19.85\00:19:21.66
And so he is having a
whole food plant-based diet...
00:19:21.69\00:19:25.99
that would probably sum it up
what you're getting him to eat.
00:19:26.03\00:19:28.23
That would be a
very good summary.
00:19:28.26\00:19:29.60
And plenty of activity that
is going throughout the day.
00:19:29.63\00:19:33.23
And what was the other thing?
00:19:33.27\00:19:35.54
Exercise, the food
and drinking water.
00:19:35.57\00:19:38.74
This sounds almost too
simple, but Jenny, you're also
00:19:38.77\00:19:41.48
talking about the
role that stress played,
00:19:41.51\00:19:44.55
and so I guess his
stress levels were improving
00:19:44.58\00:19:48.82
as he began to feel well and it
was seen that this was working.
00:19:48.85\00:19:52.22
When you're stressed, it hard
to do those things, you see,
00:19:52.25\00:19:55.12
because the brain is
just so focused on the stress
00:19:55.16\00:19:59.09
that it can't think -
it mobilizes the ability
00:19:59.13\00:20:01.93
for the brain to function.
00:20:01.96\00:20:03.37
But one of the other things,
in listening to you, John,
00:20:03.40\00:20:06.53
is his ability to give
up because I deal a lot with
00:20:06.57\00:20:10.97
addictions and
food is an addiction.
00:20:11.01\00:20:12.94
On that level, junk food
and refined foods are highly
00:20:12.97\00:20:15.61
addictive, sugars
are highly addictive,
00:20:15.64\00:20:17.15
oils are highly addictive,
00:20:17.18\00:20:18.71
and that would have
been a struggle for him
00:20:18.75\00:20:21.28
because he had to very
rapidly overcome that...
00:20:21.35\00:20:23.89
And this is where I
find people relapse,
00:20:23.92\00:20:27.26
but he couldn't
afford to relapse.
00:20:27.29\00:20:28.89
But one of the things
you mentioned, as a pastor,
00:20:28.92\00:20:31.16
one of his big strengths
would be his spiritual faith
00:20:31.19\00:20:33.83
because they find that
people who do have faith,
00:20:33.86\00:20:37.13
and this is where I'm
involved at times with
00:20:37.17\00:20:40.44
what they call the
"12-Step Program" which is
00:20:40.47\00:20:42.30
which is a more
spiritually focused program.
00:20:42.34\00:20:44.17
Recovery is much quicker,
much better and more long-term.
00:20:44.21\00:20:48.11
So for him, maybe that was
00:20:48.14\00:20:49.78
part of, and his family, could
have been part of the process.
00:20:49.81\00:20:52.95
Very much so and they were
praying all the way through it.
00:20:52.98\00:20:55.48
They had the
church praying for him.
00:20:55.52\00:20:57.72
Do you know, it's an interesting
thing, but most of the
00:20:57.75\00:21:02.06
prayers that are offered to God
are for health, health recovery.
00:21:02.09\00:21:06.29
And that's Biblical
and it's very appropriate.
00:21:06.33\00:21:10.27
And it would seem as though
God wasn't hearing or answering
00:21:10.30\00:21:13.74
the prayers of this
pastor, but He did because He
00:21:13.77\00:21:18.17
brought you into his life
and you helped him to cooperate
00:21:18.21\00:21:21.94
with the laws - the natural laws
that God has placed in our body.
00:21:21.98\00:21:25.25
And so, it is the mental aspect
as you talked about, Jenny,
00:21:25.28\00:21:29.15
the physical, the social
support that he was getting
00:21:29.18\00:21:31.92
from his wife and
his church family,
00:21:31.95\00:21:33.89
and then there is also
cooperating with the laws
00:21:33.92\00:21:39.13
because it's almost
like a tug of war...
00:21:39.16\00:21:42.16
You've got one pulling
this way, one pulling that way,
00:21:42.20\00:21:45.23
and if we've got the spiritual
pulling us in the right
00:21:45.27\00:21:48.67
direction, and we are tugging
hard with the physical aspect,
00:21:48.70\00:21:52.54
you're not going anywhere.
00:21:52.57\00:21:54.41
And so, he had to come to
that point where he thought,
00:21:54.44\00:21:56.78
"Lord, I really do want to
be well and, yes, I've come to
00:21:56.81\00:22:00.52
the point where I'm going
to not fight against basically
00:22:00.55\00:22:04.09
what is making me sick."
00:22:04.12\00:22:06.35
They all do work together,
these things work together.
00:22:06.39\00:22:09.39
In fact, they are a like a
beautiful blend, they're not
00:22:09.42\00:22:11.89
at all in separate departments.
00:22:11.93\00:22:14.10
We're a total package,
we're not just an individual
00:22:14.13\00:22:17.07
brain or a body, but
the brain and the body
00:22:17.10\00:22:20.14
work well together and we have
a huge capacity with the brain
00:22:20.17\00:22:24.61
that is still unexplored.
00:22:24.64\00:22:26.21
Science only knows
about 40% of brain function.
00:22:26.24\00:22:30.25
Technology has speeded it up,
00:22:30.28\00:22:31.88
and it gives us
some wonderful insights.
00:22:31.91\00:22:33.58
But, it's like
the unknown frontier,
00:22:33.62\00:22:37.32
and the brain capacity
constantly amazes people
00:22:37.35\00:22:40.62
because we can go beyond
things if we apply our brain.
00:22:40.66\00:22:44.39
Yes, and you're
talking about how our thoughts
00:22:44.43\00:22:46.93
impact on us and you're
talking about plasticity.
00:22:46.96\00:22:51.20
Just mention a bit about that.
00:22:51.23\00:22:52.73
Okay, well
every thought you have
00:22:52.77\00:22:55.04
impacts every cell of the body.
00:22:55.07\00:22:57.07
So when I have a thought,
if I have a negative thought,
00:22:57.11\00:22:59.57
every cell in my body responds,
but it responds negatively,
00:22:59.61\00:23:04.11
and then if I have
a positive thought,
00:23:04.15\00:23:06.25
it works in reverse
and every cell of the body
00:23:06.28\00:23:09.78
and the brain
responds positively.
00:23:09.82\00:23:11.62
And, therefore, it impacts
that negativity or positivity
00:23:11.65\00:23:15.42
impacts your biochemistry;
it impacts your hormonal
00:23:15.46\00:23:20.40
capacity and that means
we don't realize how much
00:23:20.43\00:23:23.90
power we have over...
and that's that brain/body
00:23:23.93\00:23:27.20
connection - it
gives us vitality.
00:23:27.24\00:23:31.51
And even things that they
find when someone looks upwards.
00:23:31.54\00:23:34.94
It uplifts the brain
chemistry in the body.
00:23:34.98\00:23:37.11
When we look down, which
is what depressed people do,
00:23:37.15\00:23:40.38
it actually brings the
physiology in the brain
00:23:40.42\00:23:42.95
chemistry down.
00:23:42.98\00:23:45.52
So just the
fact... I mean there again,
00:23:45.55\00:23:47.29
you've got your body connecting
00:23:47.32\00:23:49.26
to the brain and changing
things, very, very interesting,
00:23:49.29\00:23:54.03
and I don't think we nearly
understand all that goes on
00:23:54.06\00:23:58.20
in all those
interconnections and so on.
00:23:58.23\00:24:00.90
Well the good thing is
you don't have to feel it,
00:24:00.94\00:24:02.64
you just have to do it.
00:24:02.67\00:24:04.31
This person had to do it,
the pastor - he had to do it,
00:24:04.34\00:24:07.74
and he was at the point where
00:24:07.78\00:24:09.11
he would follow
your instructions because
00:24:09.14\00:24:11.15
it was that or die, basically,
he had nothing to lose.
00:24:11.18\00:24:14.15
But in doing that, he
focused out of himself on to
00:24:14.18\00:24:16.69
what he was doing and,
therefore, the stress levels
00:24:16.72\00:24:19.39
would have come down
and he would have had a more
00:24:19.42\00:24:21.06
positive outlook,
if that makes sense.
00:24:21.09\00:24:23.86
And, I found that it
makes me smile a bit, John,
00:24:23.89\00:24:28.13
when I think about, I
think you mentioned when he went
00:24:28.16\00:24:30.97
back to church and
people saw him as they weren't
00:24:31.00\00:24:33.77
expecting to see him alive and
were planning for his funeral.
00:24:33.80\00:24:36.37
What was their
reaction when he turned up?
00:24:36.40\00:24:39.91
The first time he came back
to church, he hadn't been there
00:24:39.94\00:24:42.84
in 4 months, he had been
in the intensive care unit,
00:24:42.88\00:24:45.65
they stood and clapped.
00:24:45.68\00:24:47.88
They gave him a
standing ovation.
00:24:47.92\00:24:49.98
Isn't that amazing?
00:24:50.02\00:24:51.35
Yeah, they were waiting
for the funeral, weren't they?
00:24:51.39\00:24:53.46
Isn't that just incredible
that they would do that.
00:24:53.49\00:24:56.29
And, I find that, I guess I'm
thinking of another aspect now.
00:24:56.32\00:25:01.80
You know we pray to God
and He answers our prayers,
00:25:01.83\00:25:04.87
and we nearly faint!
00:25:04.90\00:25:06.23
You know, just sort of
think... "Oh, well I did ask You
00:25:06.27\00:25:09.57
for that, but yeah right,
shock! It's hard to believe,
00:25:09.60\00:25:15.34
and, look, it
makes me just think of...
00:25:15.38\00:25:18.55
I was running a program once,
a very intensive 1-month program
00:25:18.58\00:25:23.25
4 nights a week for 4
weeks, and a gentleman
00:25:23.28\00:25:29.26
who was an engineer had diabetes
and a few other things too.
00:25:29.29\00:25:31.29
So one night just
before the program, he said,
00:25:32.33\00:25:35.60
"Ah, can I talk to
you?" I said, "Sure."
00:25:35.63\00:25:38.43
He said, "Well, I took
my blood sugar this morning
00:25:38.47\00:25:42.90
and it was 4."
That translates to 72.
00:25:42.94\00:25:48.34
And he said, "Well,
that can't be right because
00:25:48.38\00:25:51.81
it's never been 4."
00:25:51.85\00:25:53.55
I mean, he came to
the program to get well.
00:25:53.58\00:25:55.65
But he said, "Well,
that can't be true."
00:25:55.68\00:25:57.02
So he said, "I pricked the
next finger and that was 4."
00:25:57.05\00:26:00.42
And he thought,
"No, it's never been 4,
00:26:00.46\00:26:02.02
this cannot be right."
00:26:02.06\00:26:03.39
So he did the next
finger, all 10 fingers!
00:26:03.43\00:26:09.30
And they all came up
4 and he was shocked!
00:26:09.33\00:26:12.73
And I said, "Would you
like to tell the group...
00:26:12.77\00:26:14.94
there was 100
people in the group...
00:26:14.97\00:26:16.67
and he said, "Oh no, no, no,
you can if you like, but not me"
00:26:16.71\00:26:19.64
So I told the group and they
just thought it was hilarious
00:26:19.67\00:26:22.54
how you ask for these things
and they happen and it's like,
00:26:22.58\00:26:26.41
"Wow!" He seemed to think every
00:26:26.45\00:26:28.78
finger would have
a different reading.
00:26:28.82\00:26:30.52
But I was
definitely encouraged because
00:26:31.92\00:26:33.25
he's an engineer, so if
he is building a bridge,
00:26:33.29\00:26:35.22
he'd be very
sure! He'd be very sure,
00:26:35.26\00:26:38.06
so I thought that was very
part of his profession to just
00:26:38.09\00:26:42.03
not to sort of assume anything.
00:26:42.06\00:26:45.00
Yeah, so it is a beautiful
story, John, just beautiful
00:26:45.03\00:26:48.40
and I just hope that it
encourages a lot of people
00:26:48.44\00:26:52.01
out there who may be suffering
with diabetes or some of these
00:26:52.04\00:26:56.24
other diseases that
we'll be talking about...
00:26:56.28\00:26:59.05
that it can happen.
00:26:59.08\00:27:00.68
What about, I mean, this
is just one story you told us,
00:27:00.72\00:27:04.22
I'm sure there are
many such instances
00:27:04.25\00:27:07.46
that you could tell us
about too and many studies
00:27:07.49\00:27:10.36
that have been done
which confirm the benefits
00:27:10.39\00:27:14.03
of a plant-based diet.
00:27:14.06\00:27:15.66
Definitely, and diabetes
is almost like alcoholism,
00:27:15.70\00:27:19.60
you quit drinking, then
you quit being the alcoholic.
00:27:19.63\00:27:22.10
Diabetes is so much a
lifestyle based disease,
00:27:22.14\00:27:26.68
that if you have it, it's
almost like an indication that
00:27:26.71\00:27:29.71
you definitely have some
things wrong in your lifestyle,
00:27:29.74\00:27:33.25
especially for type
2 diabetes. Yes, yes
00:27:33.28\00:27:36.25
This is the amazing
part, it is so easily treated
00:27:36.28\00:27:39.25
if you do the right
thing, and this is why
00:27:39.29\00:27:43.22
with what you're doing,
it's so important because people
00:27:43.26\00:27:45.73
can get well very
easily. ... And quickly! Yes!
00:27:45.76\00:27:48.76
It doesn't take forever.
00:27:48.80\00:27:50.23
That's the astounding
thing, it's just so quick!
00:27:50.27\00:27:53.34
Amazing! I think our
bodies are very forgiving,
00:27:53.37\00:27:56.64
just like the
One who created them.
00:27:56.67\00:27:58.87
Well, I don't know whether we've
answered all your questions
00:27:58.91\00:28:02.74
I'm sure, we've
probably haven't, but if not,
00:28:02.78\00:28:06.01
you can contact Dr.
John Clark or Jennifer on:
00:28:06.05\00:28:09.95
3abnaustralia.org.au
00:28:09.98\00:28:13.59
and they will be able to
answer your specific questions.
00:28:13.62\00:28:16.76
And if you'd like to
watch our programs on demand,
00:28:16.79\00:28:19.83
you can download a fact sheet
just visit 3abnaustralia.org.au
00:28:19.86\00:28:26.90
and click the watch button.
00:28:26.94\00:28:28.74
And remember, today is the first
day of the rest of your life.
00:28:28.77\00:28:34.54