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Well hello everybody. I'm
Stephen Bohr, president of
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Secrets Unsealed and I'm
here this afternoon with two
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distinguished individuals. One
of them is the associate speaker
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for Secrets Unsealed. The other
person is a guest but soon not
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to be a guest. I have with
me C.A. Murray who is associate
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speaker for Secrets Unsealed.
We're very pleased to have you
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here for this interview C.A.
because you are an experienced
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person at this. We also have
with us James Rafferty who has
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has been actually working at
Light Bearers Ministry for eons.
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Thirty-five years.
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Thirty-five years and up till
this point he has been kind of
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in limbo for a little while
but he is now part of Secrets
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Unsealed. Amen. He's going to
be another associate speaker for
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Secrets Unsealed, praise God,
and we want to find out a little
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bit today about the
life of James before he knew
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the Lord, after he knew
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the Lord and what some of
the plans are. And so we want
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to have a word of prayer and
then we'll get right into our
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interview. I'd like to ask
C.A. if you would have a word of
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prayer please.
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Certainly. Father God we
thank you so very much for this
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ministry, for what you are doing
to it and through it. And we are
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thankful Father to add another
piece to the puzzle, another
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individual to help lift the
load and lift up the mighty and
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matchless name of Jesus.
Amen. How thankful we are for
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the call that has
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come to each of us to join hands
with you in the greatest work
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ever given the feeble and frail
hand of men and women and that
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is sharing the gospel, warning
men and women that Christ is
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coming soon. So bless us now
as we talk a little bit, learn a
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little bit more about our friend
and fellow preacher, fellow
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laborer in the cause of Christ.
Be the center and circumference
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of all that we do and say on
this program and we thank you
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in Jesus' name, Amen.
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James, just to start off, we've
almost watched you grow up on
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television for 35 years, after
Light Bearers and I remember
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years ago watching
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you and Ty work
together. You were all so much
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younger then. So we've sort
of seen you grow up. We know
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your theology, we know that
you're a student of the word.
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But we don't know much about you
personally. So let's go back and
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pick it up from the very
beginning. I know you're a
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military kid but give us
some sense of growing up.
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Christian home?
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Brothers and sisters?
Talk to us a little about that.
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Yeah, well I was born in the
states but raised in England. My
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mom is from Ireland and my
mom and dad were both in the
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military. They were both in the
Marines when I was born. Camp
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Pendleton. My sister and I are
twins. And that was in '62, '60s
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And my father was black, my mom
was white and so my mom didn't
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think that this was a good place
to raise us in those days. So
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she took us back to England
where she had a home and where
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her family was, my grandma, her
mom especially. We were raised
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there for 10 years. And we were
raised Catholic, Roman Catholic
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my mom would say. Irish. She was
born and raised in Ireland and
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Irish on my mom's side so all
our family was Roman Catholic
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on my mother's side. We lived in
England for 10 years. So when we
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were 11 we moved back to the
states. I was raised in Catholic
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schools, I was an altar boy, I
said my prayers every night, an
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our father, a hail Mary,
God bless the world. So it was a
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home that believed in God but I
didn't know Jesus as my personal
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Savior. I didn't know the Bible
at all. So we moved back to the
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states and things were tough you
know. My mom and dad tried to
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get back together. That didn't
work, that lasted about six
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months. He was in Hawaii at
the time. He came state side and
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lived in Idaho, then Montana and
then in Washington. And that's
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when my mom ended up going back
to England and I was here in the
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states by myself. It was my
senior year in high school. So I
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16 when she left, 17 in that
last year and I just ended up
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getting into partying. And I
had already had that in my life.
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There was a lot of alcohol. My
mom was an alcoholic. I was onto
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alcohol when I was a kid.
She went to AA. My dad was an
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alcoholic, my grandma was
an alcoholic, my aunt was an
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alcoholic. So there was a lot of
alcohol. To me it wasn't, it was
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a natural thing and I just drank
And then the more I was on my
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own and dealing with life
and had no parents and had no
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direction the more I got into
drinking. And I found myself at
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age 19, 20 having blackouts
and just not an alcoholic but
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just on that road. But I
remember thinking to myself and
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even you know having times where
my friends where we would bet.
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You know, let's stop drinking
and see who can last. Fifty
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dollars you know whatever.
And we would last you know a few
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weeks to maybe a couple months
and then it was you know, it was
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back into partying. So I had no
control and I realized that and
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I didn't want to be the way
I saw other people's lives that
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were consumed with alcohol
but were older than me. I just
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didn't want that. But I had no
way of getting out of it and I
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didn't find any strength in
religion. I didn't find strength
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anywhere. So one night I...
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Let me just stop you for a
second because I want to mind
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this for just a moment because
my thinking is even with this
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military background because when
you think of military you think
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of regimented,
you think of control.
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Is there much use of
alcohol in the military?
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Is that something you
inherited from your parents or
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that you saw in the
home and around the home?
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Not really. I mean my dad drank
a lot but I didn't live with my
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dad. I never knew my dad until I
was 11. So he had three tours in
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Viet Nam and one in Korea and
so there was a lot of alcohol.
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He even made a sweat suit out
of Crown Royal bags. And my mom
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in England alcohol was natural.
You just went to the pub,
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families went to the pub, you
sipped a little wine, you sipped
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a little of this, so you
know being Catholic, going to
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communion it's just part of...
So I wasn't afraid of alcohol
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it wasn't something you were
told Oh don't do that. It was
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something that you just did. And
if you couldn't control it then
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it got... and that's where I
was. I was at the place where I
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could control it but
it was slowly taking over
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and I felt that.
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And so I was at work when this
guy that I worked with started
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witnessing to me about Jesus.
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And you know as a
believer in God you'd think
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that's not a big deal but to
talk about Jesus in public was a
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big deal. Like you don't do that
like that's weird. Like okay
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okay I don't know what happened
to you. And he told me how to
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accept Christ as my Savior.
He used to party with me. He was
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completely turned around.
Different. He wasn't partying
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anymore, he was just a
different guy and that kind of
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spoke to me. And then my
sister who'd come back from
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England and she was there with
my mom, she moved in with me for
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a while and she couldn't handle
my life style and she moved out.
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She was studying and
getting into religion too.
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My mom was even
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worried about her. So both
of those influences were kind of
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there. I think people were
praying for me. In fact, I know
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they were because on a Friday
night I was sitting at my house
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with my party roommates
and there was Coke on the table
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and there was drugs and there
was real loud music and I was
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looking out the window thinking
there's got to be more to life
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than this. And Saturday night
I got on my knees and I just
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prayed the prayer that Dan told
me to pray even though I wasn't
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listening to him.
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And he was witnessing to me.
And I just asked Jesus to come
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into my life and I said that
there was no way that I could
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quit drinking and if you wanted
me to be a Christian that he
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would have to do that. He would
have to give me the power to
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quit drinking
because I couldn't do it.
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So at this point you were
prepared for that change, I mean
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you had sunken so low
that you were really ready.
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I'd sunk real low but I had
no idea what was going to happen
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and I wasn't even expecting...
I had expectation but the
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decision to accept Christ in
my life was like what clothes
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should I wear today. I know it's
going to make a difference to
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have these clothes on
because they're nice or not, you
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know what I mean?
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But it wasn't like, I didn't
think it was going to be like
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life transforming. I just
thought I'll give it a shot.
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Maybe something will happen, you
know, I don't know. But I was
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sincere and I was really
searching for help and help came
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I didn't feel any kind of
lightning bolt or any kind of
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emotional thing. I just had a
sense of expectation. And I got
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off my knees and I just said
I wonder what's going to happen
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in my life now that I've done
this. And I went to work Sunday
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night, I worked the grave
yard and I took a patient to
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radiology for x-rays. That's
what I was an orderly, what we
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called nursing techs. I was
in Spokane working at Deaconess
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Hospital and I took a patient to
the radiology department. There
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was a young lady there and we
just started talking and it was
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Linda And we're talking,
chatting along and just getting
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along you know and right in the
middle of our conversation she
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says Ah Jim, she says, I want
you to know something. I said
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what's that? She said, I'm
a Christian. I don't drink, I
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don't smoke, I don't go to
bars. And I thought in my mind I
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thought what, why is she telling
me this? I didn't know this but
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her and Dan were good friends
and Dan had told her about me.
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He used to party at my house.
So he had told her about me. He
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said, I'm thinking it was
something like, you need to pray
for Jim. He's really in
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a bad way. He needs prayers.
I've been witnessing to him. We
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need to pray for him. I think
he's open. Now who knows what
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they were saying.
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It's amazing how the Lord puts
you in contact with people right
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at the right time, isn't it?
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I'd never met her before in
the whole hospital I'd never
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met her before. That was
amazing. Yeah, That was amazing.
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And so I paused for a second and
then I said to her, so am I. She
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said I'm a Christian and I said
so am I. She looked at me like
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No you're not. Dan told me about
you. Don't give me that line.
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And then I told her my testimony
I said last night I accepted
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Jesus as my Savior and I've just
been praying about what to do
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I don't know what to do but I
just accepted him. And she got
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wide eyes and she said, You need
to come to my church. And so
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her and Dan just took a hold
of me. Dan would take me to his
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church, Calvary Chapel, and then
she took me to her church but
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it was a Pentecostal church.
So she didn't want me to kind of
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go in there with all that stuff
going on so she took me to the
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youth group. And I hung out with
the youth group on Wednesdays
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and Sunday afternoons and I hung
out at Calvary Chapel on Sunday
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mornings with Dan and my
roommates didn't see me for six
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weeks. My whole life
just turned upside down.
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Now let me ask you this then
because you're talking about a
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fully dramatic change in a
number of hours from the time
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you get on your knees and are
talking to the Lord and now the
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Lord brings somebody into your
life. Were you able to discern
00:11:20.68\00:11:24.28
a pattern. Were you kind of wide
eyed about this. Did you see
00:11:24.31\00:11:26.92
what God was doing?
00:11:26.95\00:11:28.28
I was like wow. This is amazing.
I was just so happy right now
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I was in a little bit of awe. I
was like really? Six weeks later
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really, I mean I was thinking
this is God. This is how God
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answered my prayer. He got
me. I didn't even want to drink
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anymore. It was a different
sense of not wanting to drink.
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Oh so you didn't have to
struggle to give up drinking?
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No he took it away. And my
roommates realized. They were
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like what is going on with you.
You're different. We haven't
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seen you in six weeks. What
have you been doing? You're not
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partying with us. Here have
some beer. I was like no thanks.
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What's wrong, what's
going on? And so it was a whole
00:11:59.48\00:12:02.58
different... and I just didn't
like it. I just didn't want it.
00:12:02.62\00:12:04.99
But I'd seen that, I'd had that
idea in my brain. I don't want
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this anymore but I'd never had
any power to actually walk away
00:12:10.43\00:12:12.76
from it. And this was the
walking away from it. And the
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thing that I really want to
emphasize in all of this that
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started really changing my life
after that was the word of God.
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It was vital for me to get into
the word of God. And the way
00:12:26.84\00:12:32.98
that happened was really
unique. And that's the burden I
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have for people is to get them
into the word of God because the
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word of God is where the power
is. What happened is you know
00:12:38.19\00:12:41.96
is my sister found out that
I was changed and she was so
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happy. She came over and she was
just talking to me about... You
00:12:46.23\00:12:49.73
know and she said I want you
to come to my church. And I said
00:12:49.76\00:12:51.97
yeah you come to my church. And
she said well let's do it next
00:12:52.00\00:12:54.67
week. And I said well at me or
your church next Sunday and she
00:12:54.70\00:12:58.71
said well we can do both. And I
said how can we do that. And she
00:12:58.74\00:13:01.64
said well I go to church on
Saturday. And I said you go to
00:13:01.68\00:13:06.21
church on Saturday? Why do you
go to church on Saturday? Sunday
00:13:06.25\00:13:08.78
is the day you go to church. And
she says no, that's not what the
00:13:08.82\00:13:11.55
Bible teaches. And I was like
oh. And right that moment I was
00:13:11.59\00:13:17.83
a little bit put off because
my mom had called me and she was
00:13:17.86\00:13:22.63
worried about my sister because
I wasn't in contact with her and
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she didn't want to be around
me and my mom and her were in
00:13:26.63\00:13:30.37
contact and she was writing
my mother these letters and in
00:13:30.41\00:13:33.07
these letters my sister was just
talking about Jesus. She was
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talking about Jesus. Yeah.
When she moved in with me some
00:13:36.78\00:13:44.09
Adventist person, some Adventist
door-to-door person put a door
00:13:44.12\00:13:47.19
knocker on my door and she got
it. It was a VOP or something
00:13:47.22\00:13:51.33
like that and the Bible studies.
And that's how it started with
00:13:51.36\00:13:54.86
her. And then when she was doing
those Bible studies she was
00:13:54.90\00:13:58.07
staying away from me, but after
she heard I became a Christian
00:13:58.10\00:14:00.50
she came over and she wanted to
witness to me. She wanted to get
00:14:00.54\00:14:03.20
me straightened out on what
she was learning in these Bible
00:14:03.24\00:14:05.77
studies. Because we were really
both raised in the same home.
00:14:05.81\00:14:08.34
We didn't know anything about
God except for the Lord's prayer
00:14:08.38\00:14:10.55
We memorized that. Our father
which art in heaven and hail
00:14:10.58\00:14:13.48
Mary full of grace. So we knew
those two things. That was it.
00:14:13.52\00:14:16.52
When she told me about Saturday
I said unh-huh that's not what
00:14:16.55\00:14:20.12
the Bible teaches.
00:14:20.16\00:14:22.76
I have to ask that question
because some people settle into
00:14:22.79\00:14:25.73
Sabbath very naturally
very quickly. Other's it's like
00:14:25.76\00:14:28.80
a slap in the face
00:14:28.83\00:14:30.17
with a wet rag. I mean it
really kind of stops you in your
00:14:30.20\00:14:34.24
tracks kind of thing Saturday.
You've got to be kidding.
00:14:34.27\00:14:37.21
That's right. That's how it was
with me. I'm like no. I resisted
00:14:37.24\00:14:40.68
immediately. I didn't know
thing about the Bible, not a
00:14:40.71\00:14:43.71
thing about the Bible. I
resisted that immediately.
00:14:43.75\00:14:46.15
And the reason I resisted that
was because I thought the whole
00:14:46.18\00:14:49.32
world goes to church on Sunday.
That can't be what the Bible
00:14:49.35\00:14:52.69
teaches because if it was
everyone would go to church on
00:14:52.72\00:14:56.42
Saturday. So it can't be. That's
my reasoning. But it was after
00:14:56.46\00:15:01.00
that that my sister came over
and noticed that I still had my
00:15:01.03\00:15:05.43
drum set in my living room and
I was still listening to rock
00:15:05.47\00:15:07.60
and roll music and she asked
me about that. And I said yes I
00:15:07.64\00:15:10.64
listen to rock and roll and she
says you know rock and roll is
00:15:10.67\00:15:12.77
of the devil. And I said well
it doesn't matter what music you
00:15:12.81\00:15:16.21
listen to. You know, I'm a
Christian and I love Jesus and I
00:15:16.24\00:15:19.65
go to church and I read my Bible
It doesn't matter what music you
00:15:19.68\00:15:22.68
listen to. And so she kind of
let that rest. And then a little
00:15:22.72\00:15:26.86
while later she
came over for lunch.
00:15:26.89\00:15:28.89
Here we go.
00:15:28.92\00:15:31.59
She's telling me about the
health message. How she didn't
00:15:31.63\00:15:36.26
eat meat. You don't understand.
That's all I ate. Rise (Reesee)
00:15:36.30\00:15:39.77
my wife, still calls me her
meat and potatoes vegetarian
00:15:39.80\00:15:42.84
So I didn't touch vegetables
hardly at all. You know, I might
00:15:42.87\00:15:46.94
eat a coleslaw with my Kentucky
Fried Chicken. You know what I
00:15:46.98\00:15:49.14
mean but there was... And so
when she told me that I thought
00:15:49.18\00:15:52.05
well mom is right because my mom
was worried that she was getting
00:15:52.08\00:15:55.45
involved in some kind of cult.
And back then, you know that was
00:15:55.48\00:15:57.55
in the '80s so that Jonestown
had just happened, Guyana, and
00:15:57.59\00:16:02.09
so my mom was writing me
these letters, I mean my mom was
00:16:02.12\00:16:05.03
talking on the phone saying my
sister was writing these letters
00:16:05.06\00:16:06.80
and all she talks about is Jesus
and I said well that's all I
00:16:06.83\00:16:09.53
can talk about too. So I wasn't
worried. But then when she
00:16:09.56\00:16:12.57
started telling me about going
to church on Saturday and not
00:16:12.60\00:16:15.60
listening to rock and roll music
and not eating meat I thought
00:16:15.64\00:16:19.21
maybe my mom's right. I need to
go down to this church wherever
00:16:19.24\00:16:24.08
is where my sister is
going I need to check it out
00:16:24.11\00:16:26.35
because I'm her
00:16:26.38\00:16:27.72
brother and I need to protect
her, so that's what I did. I
00:16:27.75\00:16:29.98
marched down to the Seventh-day
Adventist church in Spokane
00:16:30.02\00:16:33.59
Valley and met the pastor. And
you know my sister set that all
00:16:33.62\00:16:36.96
up. But she didn't know why
I was doing this. I didn't tell
00:16:36.99\00:16:41.73
her. I said, Yeah I'd like
to meet your pastor, I'd like to
00:16:41.76\00:16:43.30
check out your church. Now in
my mind I was just thinking yeah
00:16:43.33\00:16:46.77
I'm going to find out what
he's... I'll ask him questions
00:16:46.80\00:16:49.87
and I'll go back to my pastor at
Calvary Chapel and I'll get the
00:16:49.90\00:16:52.47
answers and I'll get my sister
out of this. So that was my plan
00:16:52.51\00:16:56.31
What the pastor offered to do
was have Bible studies with me,
00:16:56.34\00:16:59.31
not him but a Bible worker.
There was a Bible worker back
00:16:59.35\00:17:01.42
then in the church. And at first
I was kind of hesitant and I
00:17:01.45\00:17:05.59
thought oh no, no, that's
a great idea. I'll study with
00:17:05.62\00:17:07.96
these guys and then I'll really
find out what they believe and
00:17:07.99\00:17:10.59
then I can get my
sister out of this thing.
00:17:10.63\00:17:12.03
Interesting, how many, and
you know this, how many baptized
00:17:12.06\00:17:16.16
Seventh-day Adventists started
out with the mind set I'm going
00:17:16.20\00:17:19.50
straighten out some
Adventist that is off on the
00:17:22.44\00:17:23.77
wrong you know.
00:17:23.81\00:17:25.14
I have good friend who said give
me everything you got. I'll take
00:17:25.17\00:17:27.71
it to my priest. I'll be
back here on Monday and we'll
00:17:27.74\00:17:30.25
straighten you out. He never
came back. The priest said leave
00:17:30.28\00:17:35.58
leave them alone. Don't touch
those Adventists because they
00:17:35.62\00:17:38.09
know what they're doing
and they're deep in the word.
00:17:38.12\00:17:40.59
There another thing that's very
interesting. That is that people
00:17:40.62\00:17:44.99
can be converted to the Lord
but they still need instruction.
00:17:45.03\00:17:48.66
You'd given your life to the
Lord but you didn't understand
00:17:48.70\00:17:51.90
everything that's involved.
That's why Jesus said baptizing
00:17:51.93\00:17:55.87
them and then teaching them to
observe all things that I have
00:17:55.90\00:17:59.17
commanded you. So you know
you're growing little by little
00:17:59.21\00:18:03.58
and what happened next?
00:18:03.61\00:18:06.51
There's a lot of people that
I think really are converted
00:18:06.55\00:18:12.09
even they don't know a lot
necessarily about the Bible.
00:18:12.12\00:18:14.82
or about but they are having
a genuine experience with God.
00:18:14.86\00:18:18.26
That's a really good point and
I think that's why I think we
00:18:18.29\00:18:20.90
need to be so careful not to
judge people because we can't
00:18:20.93\00:18:22.80
read the hearts you
know of individuals.
00:18:22.83\00:18:25.60
You obviously were a seeker.
I mean Isaiah I think it's
00:18:25.63\00:18:28.47
chapter one verse 16 says cease
to do evil, learn to do good.
00:18:28.50\00:18:31.97
You got to learn
what it means to do good.
00:18:32.01\00:18:35.61
I wanted to know, I always
wanted to read the Bible and my
00:18:35.64\00:18:39.98
mom had sent me a Bible a year
before that. In 1982 she sent me
00:18:40.02\00:18:43.59
a little King James
Bible and she said King James
00:18:43.62\00:18:46.69
don't read any other
00:18:46.72\00:18:48.52
version but the King James. I
don't know why she was that way
00:18:48.56\00:18:52.09
but I opened that Bible up and I
started reading the book of John
00:18:52.13\00:18:55.23
John chapter one. By the time I
got to the end of chapter one I
00:18:55.26\00:18:57.90
couldn't even understand
anything, nothing. I just put
00:18:57.93\00:19:00.97
it down. I said that must be
for the priest. There's no way
00:19:01.00\00:19:02.94
I can understand this. So a year
later now in 1984, I'm going to
00:19:02.97\00:19:07.64
start having these Bible studies
and you know they come over to
00:19:07.68\00:19:11.75
my house my roommates are
partying. There's beer cans
00:19:11.78\00:19:14.32
everywhere but this Bible worker
comes in and she's an older lady
00:19:14.35\00:19:18.05
and she's very experienced and
she doesn't... You know I'm a
00:19:18.09\00:19:21.46
little uncomfortable, not sure
about this, I've never done it
00:19:21.49\00:19:23.89
before. And she gives me these
lessons these 20th century Bible
00:19:23.93\00:19:28.16
study lessons.
00:19:28.20\00:19:29.53
Good lessons, excellent lessons.
00:19:29.56\00:19:31.40
And what the lessons
did... So I started the first
00:19:31.43\00:19:34.40
one and I wasn't into it because
I wanted to learn. I was into it
00:19:34.44\00:19:38.21
because I wanted to get my
sister out. So I didn't really
00:19:38.24\00:19:40.44
finish. She came over with the
second. She said did you finish
00:19:40.48\00:19:41.81
I said no. She said, we can
finish together. So we finished
00:19:41.84\00:19:44.18
together and it was good because
she was showing me how it worked
00:19:44.21\00:19:47.92
Ask a question, give you a Bible
verse, read the Bible verse,
00:19:47.95\00:19:51.82
write down the answer. I
was like wow. This is the way to
00:19:51.85\00:19:56.22
learn how to study the Bible.
And so I said can I have two
00:19:56.26\00:19:59.76
lessons? So she dropped off two
lessons. I was just thirsty, I
00:19:59.79\00:20:03.10
was just going through it. And
before I knew it I was going on
00:20:03.13\00:20:06.40
Bible studies with her. She said
would you like to come on Bible
00:20:06.43\00:20:09.20
studies with me? I hadn't even
gotten through the lessons yet
00:20:09.24\00:20:11.04
and I said yeah, I'd love to.
She could just see that I had
00:20:11.07\00:20:13.48
this hunger and at this point
my mission to get my sister out
00:20:13.51\00:20:18.71
was kind of just on the back
burner. I was like I just was
00:20:18.75\00:20:22.45
wanting to learn and the more
I was learning the more I wanted
00:20:22.48\00:20:24.55
to learn. And DeAnn was noticing
this and Linda was noticing this
00:20:24.59\00:20:28.62
because I told them I'm going to
get my sister out of this church
00:20:28.66\00:20:32.39
and okay you know. And they
were wondering how I was doing.
00:20:32.43\00:20:35.70
They said it seems like you're
becoming an... Because I was
00:20:35.73\00:20:37.77
telling them stuff. They said
you're becoming an Adventist.
00:20:37.80\00:20:41.50
And I said to them, listen don't
worry. I'm not going to become
00:20:41.54\00:20:47.04
an Adventist. All I want to
do is follow the Bible. Whatever
00:20:47.08\00:20:50.65
the Bible teaches, that's what
I want to do. And I had no idea
00:20:50.68\00:20:53.35
the Bible was going to lead me
to be an Adventist. I honestly
00:20:53.38\00:20:56.65
just wanted to follow the Bible.
And so in time... I mean my
00:20:56.69\00:21:00.59
sister was baptized I think
in July of that year and I was
00:21:00.62\00:21:04.03
baptized just a few months after
her. And you know the whole
00:21:04.06\00:21:10.47
experience could be summed
up and I came home one day and I
00:21:10.50\00:21:13.27
looked at my drums and there was
dust on them and I said wow you
00:21:13.30\00:21:17.81
know I haven't played these in
a long time. And so I went over
00:21:17.84\00:21:19.91
to stereo to play a cassette
tape, back in the day, you know
00:21:19.94\00:21:24.48
the cassette tapes. And I pulled
out one and I was looking at
00:21:24.51\00:21:30.62
you know the different sides to
see which side to play. You know
00:21:30.65\00:21:32.92
how that works, you can't paly
the whole thing so I was going
00:21:32.95\00:21:35.56
through the songs and the
cassette band, the rock and roll
00:21:35.59\00:21:38.53
band was Van Halen.
00:21:38.56\00:21:40.13
As I went through the songs
one of the songs was entitled
00:21:40.16\00:21:42.93
Running With the Devil. That was
one of their songs. I was like
00:21:42.96\00:21:48.27
I'm not running with the devil.
00:21:48.30\00:21:50.27
And in that moment I just was
convicted you need to dump this.
00:21:50.31\00:21:57.08
I just took the whole case of a
hundred rock and roll cassettes
00:21:57.11\00:22:01.08
of my favorites, all my
favorites, took the whole case,
00:22:01.12\00:22:03.49
took it outside, put it in
the garbage can. Not because my
00:22:03.52\00:22:06.25
sister told me to. You know
you shouldn't listen to rock and
00:22:06.29\00:22:08.46
roll. Not because the pastor
told me to. If you want to be
00:22:08.49\00:22:11.09
baptized you can't, you know,
you got to get rid of your rock
00:22:11.13\00:22:12.83
and roll and your drums. No, it
was because of the words of that
00:22:12.86\00:22:16.53
hymn, Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus,
look full in his wonderful face
00:22:16.56\00:22:20.97
and the things of this world
will grow strangely dim in the
00:22:21.00\00:22:24.41
light of his glory and grace.
That was my experience. I was
00:22:24.44\00:22:27.58
just hungering for the Bible
and everything else was just
00:22:27.61\00:22:30.68
dim, just dim. Sold my drums,
ended up becoming baptized.
00:22:30.71\00:22:35.25
Bought a bunch of Spirit of
Prophecy books. Spent all night
00:22:35.28\00:22:38.75
I mean just going through the
Conflict of the Ages Series with
00:22:38.79\00:22:41.92
the Bible. Dan and I would
play this Bible game at work
00:22:41.96\00:22:44.16
between... because he worked
the swing shift and I worked
00:22:44.19\00:22:49.06
the graveyard. So we had a
couple hours together and when
00:22:49.10\00:22:51.27
things were slow we played this
Bible game. You'd go around the
00:22:51.30\00:22:53.97
advancing this Bible trivia
thing and every time we got to
00:22:54.00\00:22:57.84
the Old Testament I would knock
it out because I was reading
00:22:57.87\00:23:01.28
Patriarchs and Prophets and
Prophets and Kings and Dan would
00:23:01.31\00:23:04.25
always strike out. Like he got
so upset... How come you always
00:23:04.28\00:23:08.85
answer the Old Testament
questions and I can never get
00:23:08.88\00:23:10.39
them. I said, because I'm
reading the Old Testament, I'm
00:23:10.42\00:23:12.62
reading the commentary.
It's excellent. So that was the
00:23:12.65\00:23:17.79
journey into Adventism. The
whole idea of going on a Bible
00:23:17.83\00:23:22.00
study with this Bible worker
before I was even baptized is
00:23:22.03\00:23:24.77
what really
introduced me to ministry.
00:23:24.80\00:23:27.40
So what were you doing in terms
of your secular employment or
00:23:27.44\00:23:31.27
study. What were you doing
at the time when you became a
00:23:31.31\00:23:34.28
an Adventist?
00:23:34.31\00:23:35.64
So at the time I was working in
the hospital. In high school I
00:23:35.68\00:23:37.75
had taken pre college but my
mom left. I had no motivation,
00:23:37.78\00:23:42.08
no one to guide me. So I just
ended up working full time at
00:23:42.12\00:23:44.69
the hospital. It was full
coverage health, 80 percent
00:23:44.72\00:23:47.76
dental. I had three weeks paid
leave. I worked there since I
00:23:47.79\00:23:49.96
was in high school and I worked
there for seven years. And I
00:23:49.99\00:23:53.26
moved up from the cafeteria
supervisor and then moved into
00:23:53.29\00:23:57.87
nursing tech which I was all
over the hospital. I knew the
00:23:57.90\00:23:59.43
whole layout. And they loved
having me there. In fact when I
00:23:59.47\00:24:04.61
quit I went to the personnel
department, they asked me to
00:24:04.64\00:24:07.64
come and talk to them about
it the lady that hired me. She
00:24:07.68\00:24:10.61
was so upset. She said, you
can't quit. This is ridiculous.
00:24:10.65\00:24:14.08
What are you going to do?
Because I was just like, I'm
00:24:14.12\00:24:17.09
done. I had gone from working
full time to working two nights
00:24:17.12\00:24:19.49
a week. I was in nursing tech
and I really wanted the Sabbath
00:24:19.52\00:24:22.46
off. I really
wanted to do ministry.
00:24:22.49\00:24:24.36
That's the question I was going
to ask you. Were you running
00:24:24.39\00:24:26.46
into Sabbath issues which
you tend to do in the hospital.
00:24:26.49\00:24:29.60
Yeah you can. But you know
my boss who was alcoholic. The
00:24:29.63\00:24:32.83
whole department were a bunch
of party animals, right. Me and
00:24:32.87\00:24:35.30
Dan were the only ones that
stepped out of that. And my boss
00:24:35.34\00:24:37.41
was like hey there's a lot
of Adventists here, because I
00:24:37.44\00:24:39.27
I wanted Sabbaths off. He said a
lot of Adventists work Sabbaths.
00:24:39.31\00:24:41.54
I'm not going to give you the
Sabbath off. And I said, well I
00:24:41.58\00:24:44.28
know that, I know you have to
work in the hospital on Sabbath
00:24:44.31\00:24:46.35
but I don't want to. I want to
do ministry. And he had no, no
00:24:46.38\00:24:50.32
even any inclination to grant
me that favor. So I went to the
00:24:50.35\00:24:54.69
guys. I said hey guys I said
you know the worst shift in a
00:24:54.72\00:24:58.29
hospital is really about week
ends. It starts Friday night.
00:24:58.33\00:25:01.60
Mine started Friday night 11:30
always did and all the guys we
00:25:01.63\00:25:04.93
were always like, okay it's your
turn to work graveyard because
00:25:04.97\00:25:08.37
Joe would schedule us on these
different weekends and I said
00:25:08.40\00:25:10.71
hey guys I'm willing to work
graveyard weekends every single
00:25:10.74\00:25:14.14
weekend starting Saturday night
11:30 and working Sunday night
00:25:14.18\00:25:17.71
11:30 for one favor and
they said what's that. I said
00:25:17.75\00:25:21.65
someone's got to cover me on
Friday night if Joe puts me on
00:25:21.68\00:25:24.92
the schedule. And they said
Done! They were just like Done!
00:25:24.95\00:25:28.22
So we had this nice arrangement
and when Joe put me on the
00:25:28.26\00:25:34.76
schedule someone else would show
up and it worked perfectly. So I
00:25:34.80\00:25:38.43
just worked those two days and
it turned into 12 hour shifts
00:25:38.47\00:25:42.07
but that worked really well too.
So I worked those two days and
00:25:42.10\00:25:44.87
the rest of the time I did
ministry. And I had one foot out
00:25:44.91\00:25:47.28
the door. You know I was ready
to go. Then it didn't take long
00:25:47.31\00:25:52.08
before you know I met Ty. We
were both young men. I was 21,
00:25:52.11\00:25:57.75
just turned 22. He was 20 just
turned 21 and he was doing Bible
00:25:57.79\00:26:02.09
studies and door-to-door work
and that's exactly what I wanted
00:26:02.12\00:26:04.06
to do and we just started doing
it. Before we knew it we were
00:26:04.09\00:26:08.26
just doing meetings, doing
weekends, talking to different
00:26:08.30\00:26:11.90
people. The thing that really
floated us were there were two
00:26:11.93\00:26:15.20
things within those first couple
years was number one just young
00:26:15.24\00:26:19.31
were converted and on fire for
God. No one want's to listen to
00:26:19.34\00:26:21.48
a young person,
converted and on fire for God.
00:26:21.51\00:26:22.84
Then the second thing was
we were just drinking down the
00:26:22.94\00:26:28.68
Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy
I mean just swallowing it down
00:26:28.72\00:26:31.69
They were asking me how long
you... We said two years. Man
00:26:31.72\00:26:34.42
you know more Spirit of Prophecy
Man how did you learn all that?
00:26:34.46\00:26:37.13
We said I don't know, we just
read it. We would tithe our time
00:26:37.16\00:26:41.03
and we would spend 10 percent
of our time in the word and
00:26:41.06\00:26:44.43
the Spirit of Prophecy and just
listen to all the stuff. I mean,
00:26:44.47\00:26:47.14
I went through all Joe Crews'
library. I went to England in
00:26:47.17\00:26:50.17
'85 to convert my family,
that's a whole different story.
00:26:50.21\00:26:55.24
All his library, I just marked
all through my Bible, every
00:26:55.28\00:26:57.78
Bible study, everything before
I got... That sword was sharp.
00:26:57.81\00:27:00.58
And I started cutting people's
ears off and I didn't understand
00:27:00.62\00:27:03.22
why they couldn't hear what I
was saying. Sure. Just slicing
00:27:03.25\00:27:05.99
people's ears off. So that
was the start and I felt like it
00:27:06.02\00:27:09.86
launched, you know just launched
But unfortunately, we came into
00:27:09.89\00:27:13.23
the church at a time when there
was a lot of negativism and
00:27:13.26\00:27:18.10
independent ministry and a lot
of separation from the church
00:27:18.13\00:27:22.47
and we ended up in that group.
You know, we rode that wave.
00:27:22.50\00:27:26.37
And when Light Bearers
started Ty and I as co-directors
00:27:26.41\00:27:30.55
together we both were in an
independent ministry. Ty was
00:27:30.58\00:27:36.65
receiving and baptizing people,
doing our own home churches. The
00:27:36.69\00:27:40.26
church is in apostasy, we don't
care what they think. Who are
00:27:40.29\00:27:44.09
they to tell us anything. You
know, that kind of stuff. But it
00:27:44.13\00:27:47.13
didn't take long for us to
realize, wait a minute. Because
00:27:47.16\00:27:50.37
you read the Spirit of Prophecy
you're not going to miss it.
00:27:50.40\00:27:54.24
This is God's church. This
is the one object on earth upon
00:27:54.27\00:27:57.21
which he puts his supreme regard
and it's the church militant,
00:27:57.24\00:28:00.11
not the church triumphant. And
there's wheat and tares, there's
00:28:00.14\00:28:02.84
good and bad, there's Judas
and Peters. Don't hurl your
00:28:02.88\00:28:05.61
thunderbolts against
God's church militant.
00:28:05.68\00:28:07.45
And we were so
convicted and realized that and
00:28:07.48\00:28:11.85
sure enough we started
reconciling even were rebaptized
00:28:11.89\00:28:15.99
Not for a moral fall, but
because we had missed the mark
00:28:16.02\00:28:19.76
and so many had
stumbled over that...
00:28:19.79\00:28:22.26
I want to pause you because
pastor you recall back in the
00:28:22.30\00:28:25.40
mid '80s there were a lot
of off shoots and a lot of...
00:28:25.43\00:28:28.84
And there's one thing to be
an independent ministry, there's
00:28:28.87\00:28:31.31
one thing to be a supporting
ministry. They're both
00:28:31.34\00:28:33.68
independent but their
relationship to the body is very
00:28:33.71\00:28:35.64
much different. We had a lot
of people leaving and starting
00:28:35.68\00:28:39.58
their kind of things.
00:28:39.61\00:28:40.98
Hope International
was one of the big...
00:28:41.02\00:28:43.18
We were with them at that
time and Heartland at that time
00:28:43.22\00:28:46.79
and Steps to Life,
and Countdown Ministries.
00:28:46.82\00:28:49.89
They were four big ones and
Light Bearers. We were all in
00:28:50.89\00:28:54.66
that together.
00:28:54.70\00:28:56.03
The trinity of independent
business. We were just in it...
00:28:56.06\00:28:57.40
Praise the Lord that your hearts
were sincere and I think where
00:28:57.43\00:29:08.04
there's sincerity the Lord
accepts what you have and what
00:29:08.08\00:29:10.35
you bring, you know, so he has
a platform to kind of bring you
00:29:10.38\00:29:13.78
back. So you didn't stay
out. You saw that the church was
00:29:13.82\00:29:18.55
still God's church and
you had abandoned it...
00:29:18.59\00:29:22.02
Dr. Agatha Thrash had a lot
to do with that. She would come
00:29:22.06\00:29:25.56
to our camp meetings when
we were independent every year.
00:29:25.59\00:29:28.26
People would criticize her and
she would say no those boys are
00:29:28.30\00:29:30.03
honest. I believe their honest.
She just influenced us and spoke
00:29:30.07\00:29:33.37
to us, and met with us and
counseled us. Sure enough, in
00:29:33.40\00:29:37.21
time. I remember the 1992 G.C.
we talked with her and she just
00:29:37.24\00:29:40.21
said well, she said you know she
was just so peaceful and so you
00:29:40.24\00:29:45.01
know. It just depends, should
we work with the church, it just
00:29:45.05\00:29:48.52
depends. If you want to
00:29:48.55\00:29:49.88
have a big ministry and little
influence just keep doing what
00:29:49.92\00:29:53.25
you're doing. But if you'd like
to have a bigger influence in
00:29:53.29\00:29:55.92
the church even though you
may have a smaller ministry, you
00:29:55.96\00:29:59.09
know financially etc., etc., she
said work with the church. And
00:29:59.13\00:30:02.46
I just never forgot that. It was
like yeah, you're right. Are we
00:30:02.50\00:30:05.10
in this to have bid stuff for
ourselves or are we in this to
00:30:05.13\00:30:08.40
have more of an influence you
no outward influence doing the
00:30:08.44\00:30:11.44
evangelism etc. So right after
that we started working with the
00:30:11.47\00:30:15.01
church. We went down to what was
called the West Point School of
00:30:15.04\00:30:17.81
Evangelism. Mark Finley had
just moved to It Is Written with
00:30:17.85\00:30:22.38
Teenie and they started this
10-day evangelistic instruction
00:30:22.42\00:30:27.32
and education thing and we were
there. George Vandeman was still
00:30:27.36\00:30:33.33
alive. Ken Cox was there. Mark
and Teenie. Don and Margie Grey,
00:30:33.36\00:30:37.37
some of these names. And we got
our training and if we promised
00:30:37.40\00:30:42.20
to do three evangelistic
meetings in the next three
00:30:42.24\00:30:46.21
years, one a year we'd get a
full set of the slides, the
slides, remember the
00:30:46.24\00:30:51.41
slides. Click, click, click or
wait a minute, put another one
00:30:51.45\00:30:54.92
in. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick
yeah, sometimes it would get
00:30:54.95\00:30:58.65
stuck. And we were so
excited to have the slides.
00:30:58.69\00:31:01.99
And we started doing
evangelism and it was just
00:31:02.02\00:31:04.09
it was just our thing. ( Praise
the Lord.) I mean it was the
00:31:07.86\00:31:09.20
place to be. And
it pulled us away from
00:31:10.53\00:31:11.87
spending of all our time on
the church and all the issues
00:31:11.90\00:31:14.20
in the church and more into...
When you're doing evangelism and
00:31:14.24\00:31:16.91
try and reach out to souls
You have a completely different
00:31:16.94\00:31:19.57
perspective on the way we
focused. And you realize, you're
00:31:19.61\00:31:23.14
bringing people in and they
come into these churches and you
00:31:23.18\00:31:25.95
don't want people clobbering
them over the head and telling
00:31:25.98\00:31:28.38
them all the stuff they
know that a fourth generation
00:31:28.42\00:31:31.42
Adventist mind knows. Know what
I mean? You want to bring them
00:31:31.45\00:31:33.99
in gently and lead them
along and you want people in the
00:31:34.02\00:31:36.09
church to understand that and
try to work together and then
00:31:36.12\00:31:38.93
you have a completely different
perspective Because we came
00:31:38.96\00:31:42.76
in... I think God said okay
these guys are just you know
00:31:42.80\00:31:46.70
gung-ho, but not everyone comes
in that way. I mean you could
00:31:46.74\00:31:48.64
have told us anything. Anything
Ellen White said, anything the
00:31:48.67\00:31:50.87
Bible said Yeah, I'll take it,
let's do it. But not everyone
00:31:50.91\00:31:53.54
comes in that way. A lot of
people come in and it takes them
00:31:53.58\00:31:57.35
time. I remember hearing about a
couple that took them a year. I
00:31:57.38\00:32:00.52
said what took took you so long?
Well we had questions and we
00:32:00.55\00:32:03.79
needed to know. In my mind I
couldn't realize that. As soon
00:32:03.82\00:32:06.45
as I learned the truth I'm into
it. But as soon as I learned...
00:32:06.49\00:32:09.69
That verse that really hit was
Daniel 7:25: He shall think to
00:32:09.72\00:32:13.76
change times and laws. And when
that verse was explained to me
00:32:13.80\00:32:16.70
in relation to the history, I
was just like wow God, you knew
00:32:16.73\00:32:20.20
about all of this. That's it for
me, that's it. I mean a lot of
00:32:20.24\00:32:24.27
research. I was still... even
though I was still skeptical you
00:32:24.31\00:32:27.08
know to some degree but
the Bible just was there, verse
00:32:27.11\00:32:31.51
after verse after verse. And
that's my burden, the word of
God. We're losing it
00:32:31.55\00:32:35.15
right now. We're losing touch
as Adventists with the word of
00:32:35.18\00:32:39.32
God. And it's being transformed,
it's being changed, it's being
00:32:39.35\00:32:44.23
you know minimized. All kinds
of stuff is happening to the
00:32:44.26\00:32:47.50
word. But we've been told
this in the Bible and Spirit of
00:32:47.53\00:32:49.60
Prophecy we've been
00:32:49.63\00:32:50.97
told an attack's going
to take place on the word.
00:32:51.00\00:32:52.63
Fundamental belief number one.
00:32:52.67\00:32:54.00
We've got to hit
that because that's what
00:32:54.04\00:32:56.97
transformed my life and I think
that's what's going to transform
00:32:57.01\00:32:59.04
the lives of everybody out
there that's open to the truth.
00:32:59.07\00:33:02.14
The point you just made is very
important, it's being minimized.
00:33:02.18\00:33:06.41
No one is bold enough to
just discount the word but we're
00:33:06.48\00:33:11.35
giving it less relevance,
we're giving it less relevance.
00:33:11.39\00:33:13.59
It doesn't mean
exactly what it means
00:33:13.62\00:33:15.86
or it doesn't mean
that it applies to me
00:33:15.89\00:33:18.36
exactly as it says. So it's
being minimized. It got to ask
00:33:18.39\00:33:21.06
you because your sister actually
began ministering to you before
00:33:21.10\00:33:25.23
she was baptized. If I
doing the timeline correctly.
00:33:25.27\00:33:28.37
Yeah, yeah, it was
before she was baptized.
00:33:28.40\00:33:29.74
Yeah. Did she stay in the church
Is she still in the church today
00:33:29.77\00:33:32.34
She's not in the church per se.
She's a believer. She believes
00:33:32.37\00:33:36.61
the truth but she ended up
moving back to England and her
00:33:36.64\00:33:40.92
experience in England is a lot
different. The church over there
00:33:40.95\00:33:44.52
is a lot different. The dynamics
is a lot different. And she
00:33:44.55\00:33:48.89
really struggled with that and
then she ended up having three
00:33:48.92\00:33:53.13
boys, not being married, so you
know she went out for a while
00:33:53.16\00:33:56.97
and she tried to get back in,
you know she came back to the
00:33:57.00\00:34:00.34
church. Yeah, it didn't work too
well you know being a single mom
00:34:00.37\00:34:03.71
with three boys. There were
a lot of people that loved her
00:34:03.74\00:34:07.58
because I'd go over there and
I'd meet with her church family
00:34:07.61\00:34:09.94
whatever and do meetings there
but there were other people
00:34:09.98\00:34:13.11
that didn't and you know there's
the influence there from various
00:34:13.15\00:34:21.02
nations of England is not all
English people but some of the
00:34:21.06\00:34:26.73
influences there, very
conservative backgrounds and
00:34:26.76\00:34:30.10
very toe the line type of
atmosphere. And she went into
00:34:30.13\00:34:34.20
that and it was hard for
her. And it was hard for her
00:34:34.24\00:34:36.54
especially since she had been so
up here, then she'd backslidden
00:34:36.57\00:34:40.24
and fallen and then coming back
in. She remembered how she was.
00:34:40.28\00:34:43.21
And so it was hard for her to
really make that transition. So
00:34:43.24\00:34:46.58
she's not going to church right
now but when I talk to her you
00:34:46.61\00:34:50.95
know God is number one, praying,
reading the Bible, believing all
00:34:50.99\00:34:56.36
that she's
learned over the years.
00:34:56.39\00:34:59.36
This is the hope that I have and
I know both of you share that
00:34:59.39\00:35:02.73
hope that's it's in there you
know it's in there and before
00:35:02.76\00:35:06.94
Christ comes again we are
going to be surprised by the
00:35:06.97\00:35:12.87
reconversion, if I can use
that term, of those who have
00:35:12.91\00:35:16.31
sort of fallen away
but they never lost it.
00:35:16.34\00:35:18.48
It's still in there. I hold onto
00:35:18.51\00:35:21.22
that hope. I've got some family
members who once were, not quite
00:35:21.25\00:35:24.89
now, but it's in there and if
you talk to them long enough you
00:35:24.92\00:35:28.22
can tell it's in there, they're
just not doing it. I think a lot
00:35:28.26\00:35:31.89
of people before Christ comes
again are going to step back up
00:35:31.93\00:35:34.70
and step on and come
back to the Lord. Yeah.
00:35:34.73\00:35:36.70
So then you were cofounder of
Light Bearers Ministry and that
00:35:36.73\00:35:45.47
ministry has
existed what 35 years?
00:35:45.51\00:35:47.91
Yeah, we started in '85, that
was the time of our first camp
00:35:47.94\00:35:51.88
meeting, Final Preparation camp
meeting, in Nero, Washington and
00:35:51.91\00:35:55.75
at the time Light Bearers
was located in Spokane and it
00:35:55.78\00:36:01.82
started under Lamp Lighters.
Lamp Lighters was a home school
00:36:01.86\00:36:04.99
ministry in Walla Walla and we
were under the umbrella but you
00:36:05.03\00:36:08.46
know it grew really fast
in those days. We had about
00:36:08.50\00:36:12.10
I mean it was about 300 people.
That was fast. I remember
00:36:12.13\00:36:16.10
we'd hand write you know
00:36:16.14\00:36:17.47
out all of our... And so they
asked us, hey you need to start
00:36:17.54\00:36:21.28
your own thing. So someone came
up with the name you know we
00:36:21.31\00:36:24.61
can be Light Bearers
00:36:24.65\00:36:25.98
in the World and so we
officially incorporated in 1986.
00:36:26.01\00:36:30.62
We became Light Bearers Ministry
and then in '87 Ty and I kind of
00:36:30.65\00:36:34.66
separated from another person
who was really into home school
00:36:34.69\00:36:38.69
and really into like a book
store type thing and we moved to
00:36:38.73\00:36:43.37
another location and focused
on publishing. And we started a
00:36:43.40\00:36:46.63
branch of Light Bearers which
was the publishing ministry.
00:36:46.67\00:36:49.40
We did publishing, we did
health, we did the school,
00:36:49.84\00:36:51.31
we had a two week step
fast Bible study school.
00:36:51.37\00:36:53.68
That's how I met Rise, she
came up for that in '88 but
00:36:53.71\00:36:57.81
in time we had too many brands
in the fire and we kind of
00:36:57.85\00:37:02.25
backed away the health focus
and the school focus and focused
00:37:02.28\00:37:07.22
on publishing. We connected with
people in third world countries
00:37:07.26\00:37:11.33
who needed literature and back
then you could send end boxes.
00:37:11.36\00:37:14.43
End boxes was just a box that
was put at the post office in a
00:37:14.46\00:37:18.40
canvas bag and shipped
anywhere for pennies. And when
00:37:18.43\00:37:21.24
it got there it was
00:37:21.27\00:37:22.60
all beat up but there was
stuff that would survive. And so
00:37:22.64\00:37:24.97
we did that in '87 and in
probably '88 or '89. We shipped
00:37:25.01\00:37:31.38
a container of literature with a
pickup truck in it to Africa and
00:37:31.41\00:37:36.12
it just started taking off.
Our ministry primarily became a
00:37:36.15\00:37:41.02
publishing ministry.
00:37:41.06\00:37:42.39
Now who did your printing
for you. Did you print your own
00:37:42.42\00:37:44.23
material? Did you get presses
and what not, did someone print
00:37:44.26\00:37:46.56
for you? Because
this is a big undertaking.
00:37:46.59\00:37:48.83
We went to a lot of different
press type people and asked for
00:37:48.86\00:37:53.94
counsel. Many of them told
us don't do your own thing, it's
00:37:53.97\00:37:56.97
going to be a hassle, it's going
to be hard. So we worked with
00:37:57.01\00:38:01.51
these guys on some of our little
books but we didn't have a lot
00:38:01.54\00:38:04.15
of money and it was so expensive
so Ty and I just basically said
00:38:04.18\00:38:07.85
you know what these guys must
be in business for some reason.
00:38:07.88\00:38:10.35
So we said we think we can
do this. And we actually bought
00:38:10.39\00:38:14.32
you know we thought it was a
press. It was actually what they
00:38:14.36\00:38:17.19
call a duplicator. We bought one
of those. We worked on it all
00:38:17.23\00:38:20.53
night. I mean we were up all
night and when the guy came to
00:38:20.56\00:38:23.47
train us the next morning we
were asking questions that he
00:38:23.50\00:38:26.60
was like I've never had these
questions. We had a flyer we had
00:38:26.63\00:38:29.00
all kinds of stuff taking place
and he was like... So we told
00:38:29.04\00:38:32.04
the story and he said Ah well
these are great questions. So
00:38:32.07\00:38:35.08
we started buying used, we
bought a new one and then we
00:38:35.11\00:38:38.25
bought used equipment. It
would break down. We didn't know
00:38:38.28\00:38:40.62
anything about presses. We
learned as we went. Ty actually
00:38:40.65\00:38:42.92
ran it, to begin with, and then
we had other people that would
00:38:42.95\00:38:44.92
run them. But we just kept doing
that and finally we bought a
00:38:44.95\00:38:47.56
brand new press, 1.3 million
dollar press. And it was a huge
00:38:47.59\00:38:51.99
venture and we still have
that press to this day and it's
00:38:52.03\00:38:55.00
what's called a Perfecter.
It does roll, it does both sides
00:38:55.03\00:38:58.90
by the time it comes out. It had
six towers so it would do four
00:38:58.93\00:39:02.57
colors if you needed it too. And
we stopped doing magazines and
00:39:02.60\00:39:06.11
booklets and anything like that
and all we did was tracts, just
00:39:06.14\00:39:09.68
printed tracts by the millions.
I mean the last year I was there
00:39:09.71\00:39:13.42
we sent out I think 20
containers which is probably
00:39:13.45\00:39:17.35
around 40 million pieces
of literature. Many different
00:39:17.39\00:39:20.06
different languages, all over
the world. Lots of stories I
00:39:20.09\00:39:23.16
could tell you about that
but it just became the thing,
00:39:23.19\00:39:26.09
publishing and then preaching,
publishing and preaching.
00:39:26.13\00:39:29.40
Now were you funding
this? Offerings? Donations?
00:39:29.43\00:39:31.33
It was just donations
and offerings. We were a self
00:39:31.37\00:39:35.27
supporting ministry. We weren't
agitating for tithe in any sense
00:39:35.30\00:39:39.11
of the word. We were just
telling people that you know
00:39:39.14\00:39:42.91
work with the church and send
your tithe to the church. We
00:39:42.94\00:39:46.25
would receive offerings
but there were people who had a
00:39:46.28\00:39:49.72
heart for publishing, for
getting the printed page out.
00:39:49.75\00:39:52.95
There's certain counsels we're
given about the publishing work
00:39:52.99\00:39:56.79
and the impact it's going
to have and that would work on
00:39:56.83\00:39:59.56
people's hearts and we would get
huge donations for publishing
00:39:59.59\00:40:03.67
only and we would just designate
them. And every year in the last
00:40:03.70\00:40:05.93
few years I became the
publishing house manager, sole
00:40:05.97\00:40:08.17
publishing house manager
focusing on just getting our
00:40:08.20\00:40:11.77
literature out. And we ended up
getting a donation for a million
00:40:11.81\00:40:15.44
dollars and we just bought
Bibles, as many Bibles as you
00:40:15.48\00:40:18.68
could buy, just filled the
warehouse full of Bibles because
00:40:18.71\00:40:21.32
that was the deal. So once you
got the literature out and Bible
00:40:21.35\00:40:23.92
studies out then people are
like they don't have a Bible. We
00:40:23.95\00:40:27.06
would have to put the Bible
verses into our studies so that
00:40:27.09\00:40:29.39
they could read them because
there's no Bibles in some of
00:40:29.42\00:40:32.06
these places where this
literature was going. And then
00:40:32.09\00:40:34.03
we started shipping the Bibles
out and that to me is a huge
00:40:34.06\00:40:41.84
ministry that is going to reach
a lot of people in the end of
00:40:41.87\00:40:43.91
time _ end of time.
00:40:43.94\00:40:45.51
I want you to just sort of comb
back in your mind a little bit
00:40:45.54\00:40:48.71
You talked about that million
dollar donation. You let that
00:40:48.74\00:40:51.58
slide by kind of fast. But
that's sizable. How during those
00:40:51.61\00:40:56.69
early days you knew that this
was of God by the miracles that
00:40:56.72\00:41:00.66
he was doing to you, for you,
with you, through you. Is there
00:41:00.69\00:41:04.09
anything that stands out that
said to you, that verified yeah
00:41:04.13\00:41:07.50
God is in this, this shows
me that God is part of this?
00:41:07.53\00:41:10.97
Well we went through
some really difficult times
00:41:11.00\00:41:13.47
especially when we started
working with the church because
00:41:13.50\00:41:15.00
we lost of support from people
who are like antichurch and so
00:41:15.04\00:41:18.87
they were just giving us money
because... So we lost a lot of
00:41:18.91\00:41:21.44
support and the thing that
really hit home with me was the
00:41:21.48\00:41:26.01
inspired instruction we were
given. And one statement that
00:41:26.05\00:41:30.69
wasn't from the Bible or Spirit
of Prophecy that was from a guy
00:41:30.72\00:41:34.16
by the name of Hudson Taylor.
He was a missionary to China.
00:41:34.19\00:41:38.36
And he worked under very
dire circumstances financially.
00:41:38.39\00:41:41.50
In fact I think he even lost his
support and he was over there
00:41:41.53\00:41:44.27
from his home land and struggled
financially. One of the things
00:41:44.30\00:41:49.14
that he said, I read his book
and he said God's work done in
00:41:49.17\00:41:52.81
God's way will never lack God's
supply. So it was reading these
00:41:52.84\00:41:58.95
statements, this counsel,
the blueprint about publishing.
00:41:58.98\00:42:03.92
I was shown 7T, 140 that
the work of that other angel who
00:42:03.95\00:42:07.49
comes down from heaven and
lightens the earth with his
00:42:07.52\00:42:09.39
glory will be done primarily
through the publishing work.
00:42:09.42\00:42:11.49
And then looking at our
publishing institutions all over
00:42:11.53\00:42:14.73
the world seen one after another
fail and close, fail and close.
00:42:14.76\00:42:18.00
And then more recently
even seeing our publishing here
00:42:19.10\00:42:21.04
closing and failing and
realizing that for decades even
00:42:21.07\00:42:25.04
in Ellen White's time we haven't
been publishing what God wants
00:42:25.07\00:42:27.51
us to publish. We haven't been
putting the material out that
00:42:27.54\00:42:30.85
God wants us to put out. And
so realizing that and doing that
00:42:30.88\00:42:35.48
and seeing God bless that and
talking to people and realizing
00:42:35.52\00:42:38.82
that God, his Spirit is moving
on their hearts, because they
00:42:38.85\00:42:41.52
have the same burden, that's
what got us through. I think
00:42:41.56\00:42:44.06
that is the key; to follow God's
blueprint, to trust him in his
00:42:44.09\00:42:48.56
work in his way will never lack
his supply. And then you just
00:42:48.60\00:42:51.67
leave it. You can't
be stressed about it...
00:42:51.70\00:42:54.57
Do you think James that perhaps
the counsels that Ellen White
00:42:54.60\00:43:00.38
has in principle in this
age would apply to DVDs and
00:43:00.41\00:43:07.95
television and
some TV for example.
00:43:07.98\00:43:09.48
Absolutely.
00:43:09.52\00:43:10.85
You know getting the message out
Because there's a lot of people
00:43:10.89\00:43:12.52
that don't read these days. You
know they're too much in a rush
00:43:12.55\00:43:16.46
they're in a hurry. It's hard to
get people to watch a one hour
00:43:16.49\00:43:20.03
sermon too you know. This age
you know when everything changes
00:43:20.06\00:43:23.30
just like this. So I think the
principle that Ellen White wrote
00:43:23.33\00:43:27.00
applies also to not
only publishing ministries,
00:43:27.04\00:43:31.81
ministries like Secrets Unsealed
where we get out the message
00:43:31.84\00:43:34.54
through social media, through
television and also through the
00:43:34.58\00:43:39.15
printed page but not as much.
00:43:39.18\00:43:40.55
So it's interesting because
there was a time when you
00:43:40.58\00:43:44.89
couldn't really reach a lot
of people in the world except
00:43:44.92\00:43:47.72
through the printed page if you
could get it to them and now you
00:43:47.76\00:43:51.39
go into some of these rural
areas where there are grass huts
00:43:51.43\00:43:54.26
and you go by and there is
a television in a grass hut.
00:43:54.30\00:43:56.87
You know what I'm saying.
00:43:56.90\00:43:58.23
And these countries are
wanting to get the media in
00:43:58.27\00:44:03.57
there and they want at that
communication. I go to Zimbabwe
00:44:03.61\00:44:06.57
and everyone's got a cell phone.
Some their cell phones are
00:44:06.61\00:44:08.88
further ahead of our cell phones
that's true. So we've seen that
00:44:08.91\00:44:14.52
transition take place and it's
for other purposes. You know
00:44:14.55\00:44:17.82
the devil wants to get media
into every country and every
00:44:17.85\00:44:21.19
home because he wants to get
his message in there. And God is
00:44:21.22\00:44:24.49
going to overrule that just like
you said and he's going to get
00:44:24.53\00:44:27.43
message in there
through this means.
00:44:27.46\00:44:30.60
So you have administrative
experience, vast administrative
00:44:30.63\00:44:35.14
experience and also experience
preaching. You've taught also
00:44:35.17\00:44:41.74
in other supporting ministries
of the church. Could you tell
00:44:41.78\00:44:45.05
us a little about you know
your travels and where you've
00:44:45.08\00:44:49.58
preached and where you've taught
00:44:49.62\00:44:50.95
Well like I have a real burden
for teaching, not just because
00:44:50.99\00:44:54.82
I met my wife in a
school and fell in love.
00:44:54.86\00:44:57.49
Which we will come back to.
00:44:57.53\00:44:59.13
My mom was a teacher and so I
think it's a thing that's in me.
00:44:59.16\00:45:03.87
My son's a natural at that
too. When I had the Bible study
00:45:03.90\00:45:08.00
school my burden was to
especially do the Bible so I was
00:45:08.04\00:45:11.04
called AFCO had to come down
and do a how to study the Bible
00:45:11.07\00:45:14.71
course at their school and then
for years we had a school but it
00:45:14.74\00:45:18.15
kind of faded away. So there
were a couple of schools... My
00:45:18.18\00:45:22.38
love is Daniel/Revelation so
there were a couple schools, one
00:45:22.42\00:45:26.35
is in Florida and another
one on the west coast that were
00:45:26.39\00:45:31.16
teaching and training young
people. I just had a burden for
00:45:31.19\00:45:33.46
young people so I would go there
and do the Revelation series.
00:45:33.50\00:45:35.76
And I still do that. There's
another school on the east coast
00:45:35.80\00:45:38.47
that just started up recently.
I did the Revelation for them.
00:45:38.50\00:45:41.00
And then in 2011 Light Bearers
and Arise came together and that
00:45:41.04\00:45:50.88
was like yeah, all right, let's
get back into the school. You
00:45:50.91\00:45:54.22
know we'd been doing the
publishing, we've got that down
00:45:54.25\00:45:56.55
now, that's going. Let's get
back now and start educating.
00:45:56.58\00:45:59.62
We need to pass on our knowledge
and experience to the next
00:45:59.65\00:46:02.19
generation. And so that was just
it. And as the Arise program
00:46:02.22\00:46:07.66
picked up and really took
off we saw a lot of the students
00:46:07.70\00:46:11.97
coming in for three months and
then falling flat on their face,
00:46:12.00\00:46:14.64
coming in for three months
and falling flat on their face,
00:46:14.67\00:46:16.74
especially the young people.
They weren't grounded. Three
00:46:16.77\00:46:19.84
months wasn't enough. So two
of them came to us and said hey
00:46:19.87\00:46:24.85
we need to do something. We've
got an outline here what we
00:46:24.88\00:46:27.65
think is needed and it was
basically discipleship ministry.
00:46:27.68\00:46:30.25
A six month to one year
follow-up ministry. And the guys
00:46:30.29\00:46:35.19
said we can't do that, we
travel, we're not available. And
00:46:35.22\00:46:37.56
I said I'll do it. I said, I'll
stop traveling and I'll do it. I
00:46:37.59\00:46:40.73
said I just have a burden
for that. So they were just like
00:46:40.76\00:46:43.50
whoa. So I stopped traveling
and I just started doing a
00:46:43.53\00:46:46.10
discipleship ministry. I had
three interns that were senior
00:46:46.13\00:46:49.64
interns that had been interns
for a year, worked with them,
00:46:49.67\00:46:51.51
organized it and we
just started just pouring
00:46:51.54\00:46:53.34
into these
students and they then
00:46:54.01\00:46:57.85
would do outreach in the
community. Their outreach would
00:46:57.88\00:47:00.18
be based on what they felt God
was calling them to do. But in
00:47:00.22\00:47:04.55
the context of all of that, you
know, you travel around. I've
00:47:04.59\00:47:07.56
traveled to every continent. In
Africa, Europe, Asia, Pakistan
00:47:07.59\00:47:14.96
three times. That was very
interesting. That was like going
00:47:15.00\00:47:16.33
to another world almost. And in
all of those places, especially
00:47:16.36\00:47:19.97
in Pakistan the thing that
I ended up doing other than
00:47:20.00\00:47:22.87
evangelism was an educational
teaching. In Pakistan I was
00:47:22.90\00:47:28.91
asked to teach a class on
Revelation in the afternoon in
00:47:28.94\00:47:32.31
Pasha. And there were 12
pastors there. And one of them
00:47:32.35\00:47:37.29
was a little Pentecostal pastor
by the name of Zeta Zeroach.
00:47:37.32\00:47:40.76
And he had 120 pastors under him
and he wanted me to come back
00:47:40.79\00:47:44.99
and teach them. He said because
you've just opened up the book
00:47:45.03\00:47:48.46
of Revelation like I've never
seen it before. And he said I
00:47:48.50\00:47:51.27
don't live here in Pasha.
I live in not Karachi but ah
00:47:51.30\00:47:59.87
another city I don't remember
it now. It was a more moderate
00:47:59.91\00:48:03.21
city. And so I went from Pasha
to some city the next year.
00:48:03.24\00:48:08.32
And there were 220 pastors
there And then we didn't finish.
00:48:08.35\00:48:11.45
I have to tell you the story but
I know we're running out of time
00:48:11.49\00:48:13.59
So the next year they wanted
me to come back and teach Daniel
00:48:13.62\00:48:18.19
and Revelation, the rest of
Daniel and Revelation to more
00:48:18.23\00:48:19.56
the rest of the Dane
Revelation, there were 300.
00:48:19.59\00:48:22.76
There was a
Catholic priest in there.
00:48:22.80\00:48:24.17
And that Methodist pastor
became an Adventist pastor. And
00:48:24.20\00:48:27.34
they were just loving the truth.
They'd never heard Daniel and
00:48:27.37\00:48:32.91
the 2300 day prophecy and the
70-week prophecy. They'd always
00:48:32.94\00:48:35.54
heard it from the left behind
view, never heard it in the view
00:48:35.58\00:48:38.98
that we presented. And they just
loved it. They had me go over it
00:48:39.01\00:48:43.08
twice because it was just new
to them. And so traveling from
00:48:43.12\00:48:47.46
place to place... Went to Soluci
University in Zimbabwe. I had
00:48:47.49\00:48:53.29
great experience there but I
went in there to teach the three
00:48:53.33\00:48:55.43
angels message to a bunch of
Adventists, right. Well there
00:48:55.46\00:48:58.30
were 2000 students there
and there were only I think 400
00:48:58.33\00:49:04.37
Adventists. I didn't know
that. I thought they were all
00:49:04.41\00:49:06.07
Adventists. No. They had
recently become the second
00:49:06.11\00:49:08.14
largest university in Zimbabwe
and they had opened the doors
00:49:08.18\00:49:12.65
to everyone. Well Zimbabwe is
a largely Catholic country and
00:49:12.68\00:49:17.45
most of these students
were Catholics. And when I hit
00:49:17.49\00:49:20.79
when I was reading through
the everlasting gospel, fear God
00:49:20.82\00:49:22.72
give glory to him, worship him.
When I hit Babylon, the mark of
00:49:22.76\00:49:26.53
beast they went ballistic
literally threatening me. They
00:49:26.56\00:49:30.17
had a body guard cover me
and and they came after me.
00:49:32.83\00:49:34.17
I went into this
question and answer time
00:49:34.20\00:49:35.54
and these four girls came in and
00:49:35.57\00:49:36.91
they were just ready to throw
their chairs at me. It was such
00:49:36.94\00:49:38.97
a good experience with that
crowd because I just went to the
00:49:39.01\00:49:41.21
word of God. And it was funny
because... Let me tell you this
00:49:41.24\00:49:44.18
one story. You know they didn't
have Bibles and they were like
00:49:44.21\00:49:49.15
how dare you come here and tell
us that we're worshiping on the
00:49:49.18\00:49:51.52
wrong day. And I said well I
totally understand where you're
00:49:51.55\00:49:55.32
coming from. I was raised
Catholic. I get it. It's a
00:49:55.36\00:49:57.99
struggle. I went through the
same thing. I smiled but they
00:49:58.03\00:50:00.96
were not smiling. And I
said let's open our Bible's to
00:50:01.00\00:50:03.60
Genesis. So they opened
their Bibles. They had one Bible
00:50:03.63\00:50:05.67
between four of them. I said
read it. She started reading.
00:50:05.70\00:50:08.60
You know God created... the
evening and the morning were
00:50:08.64\00:50:11.77
the first day. She got a pencil.
She wrote down Monday. And she
00:50:11.81\00:50:17.55
looked up at me and she said
who's to say it wasn't Monday?
00:50:17.58\00:50:19.95
I said it was Monday the first
day was Monday. You know, you
00:50:19.98\00:50:22.72
know where we're going with
this I'm thinking oh no. So I'm
00:50:22.75\00:50:27.32
praying. I don't know what to
do. I've never done...You know
00:50:27.36\00:50:30.03
how you have a situation.
Nothing like that's ever
00:50:30.06\00:50:32.13
happened and I'm thinking what.
And so then the Lord impresses
00:50:32.16\00:50:36.43
with Luke. And so I said let's
turn to the book of Luke. And as
00:50:36.46\00:50:42.30
we turn there what day did Jesus
die on? And they said Easter
00:50:42.34\00:50:45.67
Friday, I mean not Easter
Friday good Friday. I said
00:50:45.71\00:50:48.18
what day was he
00:50:48.21\00:50:49.54
resurrected on? On Easter Sunday
I said okay now read these
00:50:49.58\00:50:52.71
verses. And they read the verses
She read the verses. Now every
00:50:52.75\00:50:54.88
time she'd read a verse she'd
have this cock... She read these
00:50:54.92\00:50:57.59
verses and her head was
just buried in the Bible. She
00:50:57.62\00:51:00.26
wouldn't lift it up. She
wouldn't lift it up. Conviction
00:51:00.29\00:51:04.86
was just there. She exploded
okay, okay you're right, Okay
00:51:04.89\00:51:08.70
it's Saturday. Okay I get
it. But you Adventists are this
00:51:08.73\00:51:12.33
and you Adventists are
that. She was still having this
00:51:12.37\00:51:14.14
conversation and whatever.
It was just good. But it was the
00:51:14.17\00:51:16.81
word of God. People don't
know the word of God. My aunt,
00:51:16.84\00:51:21.14
Catholic you know. Why are
you going to church on Saturday?
00:51:21.18\00:51:23.28
Well it's the seventh... How do
you know the seventh day's not
00:51:23.31\00:51:26.11
Sunday. So I went and got a
calendar and I said what day is
00:51:26.15\00:51:28.28
the seventh day on this calendar
And she's like wow I never
00:51:28.32\00:51:31.45
noticed that before. And so
now they changed the calendar of
00:51:31.49\00:51:34.09
course.
00:51:34.12\00:51:36.09
And of course it gets
confusing Pope Francis calls
00:51:36.12\00:51:38.76
Sunday the Sabbath
00:51:38.79\00:51:40.13
People get totally confused.
I've found two different kinds
00:51:40.16\00:51:43.77
of reactions when people hear
for the first time about Babylon
00:51:43.80\00:51:47.87
and the mark of the beast. I've
had people who were Catholic
00:51:47.90\00:51:52.81
say how is it that I've been
deceived for so long? And yet
00:51:52.84\00:52:00.22
others that get angry with
the person who's teaching them.
00:52:00.25\00:52:02.32
I was upset. After I realized
it I was upset with the church.
00:52:02.35\00:52:06.99
Yeah, how could they do this?
This isn't right. It bothered me
00:52:07.02\00:52:12.16
It's shocking to spend so
many years to be so steeped in
00:52:12.19\00:52:15.26
something and to realize it's
not biblical and it's error.
00:52:15.30\00:52:19.97
That is really something that
can set you back. Now time to
00:52:20.00\00:52:23.41
give you_. Quickly.
00:52:23.44\00:52:24.77
We only have five minutes.
00:52:24.81\00:52:26.14
Yeah. We need two minutes on
how you met your wife and who
00:52:26.17\00:52:29.28
popped the question first.
Then you got to bring you here
00:52:29.31\00:52:31.38
because this is where you are.
00:52:31.41\00:52:33.31
That is a hard thing to condense
but basically she came to the
00:52:33.35\00:52:38.79
school and I noticed her but at
that time I had finally come to
00:52:38.82\00:52:41.96
the place where I was open
to get married. For the first
00:52:41.99\00:52:43.96
couple of years as an Adventist
I was like the Lord's coming
00:52:43.99\00:52:46.13
soon. There's no time for
marriage no time for kids. I
00:52:46.16\00:52:47.96
wouldn't even go to a wedding.
And Ty was just like man James
00:52:48.00\00:52:50.97
comes over to my house and
riles up my kids. He needs his
00:52:51.00\00:52:53.23
own wife, he need his own kids.
So he was looking me earnestly.
00:52:53.27\00:52:56.91
He had failed big time twice and
so he'd lost all credibility.
00:52:56.94\00:53:02.48
Well Rise came and I
00:53:02.51\00:53:04.61
thought she had a boyfriend so
I wasn't like even looking that
00:53:04.65\00:53:07.95
way. But he invited her and
her mom over to his house and he
00:53:07.98\00:53:12.52
was asking all these questions
and he found out all about her
00:53:12.55\00:53:14.72
but he wasn't going to say
anything to me. So she came and
00:53:14.76\00:53:17.23
she left. And about a week or
so later I got this Bible in the
00:53:17.26\00:53:21.13
mail and it was a Bible
that had been purchased out of
00:53:21.16\00:53:24.57
school. It had the wide margin
with a navy cover. Rise had
00:53:24.60\00:53:28.84
purchased a Bible like that, put
it in a navy cover and this one
00:53:28.87\00:53:32.47
was not hers. She accidentally
they'd stopped on the way back
00:53:32.51\00:53:36.18
to Loma Linda where they were
living. They'd stopped at some
00:53:36.21\00:53:37.55
friends' house and she had
actually grabbed the Bible of a
00:53:37.58\00:53:40.88
guy a young man who'd been at
the school with her also. This
00:53:40.92\00:53:44.29
Bible that she grabbed happened
to have my name in it. No one
00:53:44.32\00:53:47.52
had ever asked me to do this
before and I don't think one
00:53:47.56\00:53:49.09
person's ever asked me since.
Would you dedicate this Bible
00:53:49.12\00:53:51.19
you know dedicated by and so
I wrote my name. He didn't write
00:53:51.23\00:53:53.80
his name in it yet, but I wrote
my name in it. So she sent it
00:53:53.83\00:53:56.13
to me because she'd never be
able to figure this out. And Ty
00:53:56.16\00:53:59.53
was all about Rise and me
getting together but he wasn't
00:53:59.57\00:54:03.94
willing to broach me on it
unless I brought up the name.
00:54:03.97\00:54:09.31
I wasn't going to bring up her
name. She's got a boyfriend and
00:54:09.34\00:54:11.25
she's off she's gone. But I had
this Bible and it was like to
00:54:11.28\00:54:13.92
Rise I should write her back.
And I said naught I better not.
00:54:13.95\00:54:16.22
Why can't I make up my mind?
I mean this is silly. Will she
00:54:16.25\00:54:21.66
get the wrong impression. What
am I thinking. So I said ah I'll
00:54:21.69\00:54:24.63
ask Ty. That was it. I asked Ty.
And he said who? And I said Rise
00:54:24.66\00:54:28.86
and he said okay James I prayed
about this. This is an answer to
00:54:28.90\00:54:32.23
prayer. This is the woman you
need to marry. Dah, dah, dah,
00:54:32.27\00:54:33.84
dah, dah, dah. I was like what?
He had forced me to write her
00:54:33.87\00:54:38.04
a letter basically and just tell
her how serious I was and she
00:54:38.07\00:54:41.58
had just been reconverted and
she had given up on guys. She
00:54:41.61\00:54:45.58
was just ready to follow
God figured she'd be an old maid
00:54:45.61\00:54:50.79
and I got this letter from
you saying hey I'm interested in
00:54:50.82\00:54:53.25
seeing if it's God's will for
us to connect. And I had said
00:54:53.29\00:54:57.46
_, and that was it.
The rest is history.
00:54:57.49\00:54:59.73
The matchmaker. I didn't
know that Ty was a matchmaker.
00:54:59.76\00:55:04.40
Now since our time really
slipping away we got to let you
00:55:04.43\00:55:07.57
answer this in your own way.
Walk us through the steps that
00:55:07.60\00:55:11.47
the Lord took you
through to bring you here.
00:55:11.51\00:55:15.08
To Secrets?
00:55:15.11\00:55:16.44
To Secrets and you've got
to do it in two minutes and 44
00:55:16.48\00:55:18.58
seconds.
00:55:18.61\00:55:19.95
Well we started and
continued to be a very
00:55:19.98\00:55:24.19
conservative ministry
Light Bearers and I felt over
00:55:24.22\00:55:28.32
the years that
00:55:29.56\00:55:30.89
that was changing and we
were moving in a little bit of a
00:55:30.93\00:55:33.29
different direction. And you
know I think Ty felt that too.
00:55:33.33\00:55:36.80
The thing was that I was
reluctant to move in some areas
00:55:36.83\00:55:43.37
in that direction, more
reluctant I think than Ty was.
00:55:43.41\00:55:45.87
I don't want to say this.
Our church is filled good honest
00:55:45.91\00:55:50.25
Christians but they see things
a little bit differently. And so
00:55:50.28\00:55:53.31
we can't read the hearts
and judge the hearts, but we did
00:55:53.35\00:55:55.52
know, Ty and I both realized
that there was tension between
00:55:55.55\00:55:59.25
us over a lot of ministry things
and he broached the subject and
00:55:59.29\00:56:04.09
he did right after Rise
and I prayed about me resigning
00:56:04.13\00:56:08.63
from Light Bearers.
00:56:08.66\00:56:10.00
I just felt there was a
growing apart and a tension
00:56:10.03\00:56:13.17
and some things that were
happening that I wasn't very
00:56:13.20\00:56:15.20
comfortable with. And so I
prayed with Rise and Rise was
00:56:15.24\00:56:19.67
shocked and say I prayed and the
next day I got this email from
00:56:19.71\00:56:23.41
Ty basically saying hey I think
either you need to resign or I
00:56:23.45\00:56:26.65
need to resign or we need to
figure this out and he came over
00:56:26.68\00:56:30.39
and I said Yep, I'm ready
to resign. We worked for a few
00:56:30.42\00:56:33.86
months, we talked whatever but
the more we talked the more we
00:56:33.89\00:56:35.69
talked the more we realized
we were just going in different
00:56:35.72\00:56:38.36
directions. And so I
just followed through with the
00:56:38.39\00:56:40.63
resignation. After that I said
I'm going to take one year off.
00:56:40.66\00:56:43.47
And it was a few months later
that I got a call from Secrets
00:56:43.50\00:56:47.37
and they said hey we heard.
What's going on. And I said well
00:56:47.40\00:56:50.51
I've got a statement that
I can send you, a resignation
00:56:50.54\00:56:53.68
statement. Send it. So I sent
it. And then that's when you and
00:56:53.71\00:56:57.05
I started talking. And you
just said, Hey James here's our
00:56:57.08\00:57:00.28
history. We've been
looking. We're actually open.
00:57:00.32\00:57:02.78
Could you pray about this and
we'll pray about this and boy
00:57:02.85\00:57:06.05
we received a number of calls
but when I talked to Rise about
00:57:06.09\00:57:09.29
it this was the one
that really felt right.
00:57:09.32\00:57:11.63
And then when we came down here
00:57:11.66\00:57:13.46
that was it. It was like wow
this is just a great atmosphere.
00:57:13.50\00:57:17.13
I love this. I love the
atmosphere. I love the focus,
00:57:17.17\00:57:21.20
the conservative focus with the
relaxed atmosphere, you know the
00:57:21.24\00:57:25.07
vibe, everything, the spirit
of God and I'm just eager and
00:57:25.11\00:57:29.91
happy about the whole thing and
my wife is too. We just want...
00:57:29.94\00:57:32.61
We've been sitting around
idle for a year basically, I
00:57:32.65\00:57:36.69
shouldn't say that Pastor Bohr
that we're just ready to go.
00:57:36.72\00:57:39.15
Praise the Lord. I am so
thankful that you decided to
00:57:39.19\00:57:42.42
come to Secrets Unsealed. We
are looking forward to a great
00:57:42.46\00:57:47.00
relationship and doing things
that I couldn't do or C.A.
00:57:47.03\00:57:52.33
couldn't do but you can. I think
that you're going to do for
00:57:52.37\00:57:55.70
example a series on the 28
fundamental beliefs in just a
00:57:55.74\00:57:59.94
couple of months and we're
looking forward to that and we
00:57:59.97\00:58:03.78
got to make you official James.
Okay. To be official you have to
00:58:03.81\00:58:10.19
wear this cap it says sub PD
I like this hat. And then also
00:58:10.22\00:58:15.96
you know I think it's Thursdays
here that we wear I think this
00:58:15.99\00:58:25.57
Sun TV T-shirt. By the way, if
you want to get one, those who
00:58:25.60\00:58:29.67
who are watching, these are
available from Secrets Unsealed.
00:58:29.70\00:58:33.07
I'm going to put
that on right now too.
00:58:33.11\00:58:35.51
Welcome. We're glad you're here.
00:58:35.54\00:58:38.11
It's good to be here.
00:58:38.15\00:58:39.48
And we look forward to having
Rise. I know she didn't come
00:58:39.51\00:58:41.12
with you on this trip but we're
looking forward to having her
00:58:41.15\00:58:43.65
come as well. She has a Master's
degree I guess in nutrition.
00:58:43.69\00:58:47.26
And we want to have her do a
program as well. I think that
00:58:47.29\00:58:51.36
the Lord is going to work
wonderfully and powerfully
00:58:51.39\00:58:53.43
through you here at
Secrets Unsealed. Thank you for
00:58:53.46\00:58:56.77
listening to the voice of God.
00:58:56.80\00:58:58.13
Amen, thank you
Pastor Bohr. Thank you C.A.
00:58:58.17\00:58:59.73
Any last words C.A.?
00:58:59.77\00:59:01.10
Well we hope that you have
enjoyed our time together to get
00:59:01.14\00:59:06.71
to know a little bit more about
James. He comes with a wealth
00:59:06.74\00:59:09.74
of experience, a lot of
potential. He's done a lot of
00:59:09.78\00:59:13.01
things for the Lord, yet the
Lord had much more for him to
00:59:13.05\00:59:15.95
accomplish. Thank
you for joining us,
00:59:15.98\00:59:17.62
We'll see you again next time.
Bye-bye and God bless. Amen
00:59:17.65\00:59:21.66
¤ ¤
00:59:21.69\00:59:27.63