The following
program presents principles
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designed to
promote good health and
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is not intended
to take the place of
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personalized professional care.
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The opinions and
ideas expressed are those
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of the speaker.
Viewers are encouraged to
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draw their own conclusions
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about the information presented.
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Hello and welcome
to Health for Lifetime.
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I'm your host Don
Mackintosh and you know
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one of the
realities of life is that we
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lose things, that
we struggle with loss,
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we suffer loss. And
so one of the things
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we have to learn
to do which I believe
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the creator never
meant us to have to really
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deal with but
has equipped us is to
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overcome loss. And
talking with us today
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about this
important subject is Dr. Neil
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Nedley, Dr. Nedley
you're a physician that
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practices there in
Ardmore, Oklahoma, and
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but you are, you go
around the world and
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probably one of
the things that you,
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probably don't
relish but have to deal with
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day in and day out
is explaining to people
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that they've lost
this or that function maybe
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explaining to the
relatives of someone
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waiting, have
they lost a loved one.
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This is a big part
of what you have to do.
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It is, and also of
course we deal a lot
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with depression as
well and often depression
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starts out as a
result of a loss of a vision
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or a loss of a
body part or the loss
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of a loved one,
loss of a child and so in
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order to really get to the root
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cause of
depression, we have to teach
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people the best
way of overcoming loss.
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Alright, and I mean is it true
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what I said, that
really, it never was
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meant to be? That's
right, God's original plan
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was that we would not have loss,
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there was to be
no death or dying.
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And it wasn't until
sin entered the world
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when that began
to happen and now
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it happens
routinely but we're told in
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the last couple of
chapters of the Bible
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that there will
come a point and time
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where there will
be no more losses.
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No more pain, no
more suffering we look
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forward to
that, but between here
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and there we need
some what would say
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coping mechanisms
or you know biblically
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based, scientifically
sound principles to know
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how to go on. You
know, how long people
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live not only has to
do what they are putting
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into their body
and what they're doing
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with their body
but also has to deal
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with how they
cognitively process
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loss. There was
an individual I was
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giving a health
summit a few years
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ago in Texas and
one of the people that
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were attending was
turning 100 years of
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age that day and
the news media came,
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she had walked on her
own power to the place
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she had asked
some good questions as
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we were talking
about different health
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principles she obliviously had
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a wit and a sense of
humor about her as well.
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And at lunch time
they sang happy birthday
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to her and they
lit the candles and she
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blew out the
candles and right after she
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did that the news
media was there to have
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that on the
evening news that day.
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And they put a microphone under
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her chin and said tell
us ma'am what's special
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about being a
hundred, and quipped right
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back and said, no peer pressure.
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And I laughed as well
and the whole audience
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laughed, none of
us had thought about
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it in that way but
as I started to talk
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to her she had
lost virtually everyone
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that was
important to her at your age
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you know unless
you're hundred and watching
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this program which
you're very likely not,
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she had lost her
husband to diseases
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of old age. She had
lost children to diseases
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of old age. She had
lost virtually every
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friend that she had
in her 60's, and 40's,
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50's, 60's and
70's. They were all gone.
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She had to go
through tremendous amount
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of loss, but yet
she still had a wit
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about her, she still
was a successful woman
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and she had
learned how to cognitively
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process loss, is the
term that we utilize.
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Yeah. And you know
people that live that
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long many times
are at, wouldn't be
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that old if they
hadn't learned how
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to do this, I mean
they have a real optimism
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I was visiting the
other day with a guy
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in the nursing home I
said how are you today?
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He says well I got
one foot out of the
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grave and the other
foot well it's actually
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on a banana
peel, he says that I am
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that close, he
goes but I'm reading
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the paper I want to see
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what's already
happen, then you know he just
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had a good way
of dealing with that
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and then my grandfather,
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I think I've talked
to you about that before
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he was 86 years old
when he moved in with me,
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the last three and
half years of his life
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and he redefined
life with the people that
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were around him
to make it meaningful
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and purposeful. He
said I must be alive for you
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he would tell me
everyday, so that well he,
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you know he had
overcome the losses
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in the past but he
would treat me like he treated
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his wife you know he
fixed breakfast for me
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and all kinds of
things. Well, and those people
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are very special
and obviously anyone
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who reaches those ages
and still have a positive
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outlook on life
know something about
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overcoming loss. Yeah,
you know this is a Psalms,
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I want to mention
this just before we go on,
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there is a Psalms
my grandfather used
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and if you're an older
person and look this up.
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It is a, I think
it's a 72nd or 73rd Psalms
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it says now when I
am old and gray-headed,
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you know be with me
until I declare your
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strength to this age
and to the people to come,
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the generation to
come. And that was his text,
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he said, look, this
is my text I am supposed
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to declare the
glory and strength of God
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to you boys and
to generations that
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are to come. So, that
was his purpose, yeah,
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so let's look at
this then overcoming loss
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you have some
principles that you want
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to share with us.
Well, one of the principles
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as to keep the loss in
perspective and lets not
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necessarily magnify
the loss out of proportion.
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We talk about
Cognitive behavioral therapy
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and Cognitive
behavioral therapy really
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is truth therapy.
Its, cognitive means,
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cognition or
thought, yeah, that's right,
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cognition is the
thought and so that means
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even our thoughts
are accurate and true.
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They are not bent
out of proportion like
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we tend to do, particularly when
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we're undergoing a
loss, we will tend to state
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it in such a way and
explain it in such a way
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that really goes
beyond and of course when
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we believe that it defeats us.
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An example we
have upon the screen an
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appropriate way of
looking at a significant
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loss as well as
some inappropriate ways.
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The appropriate way
is to state as the screen
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should be saying now,
reality versus distortion,
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I'm losing what? An
important part of my life.
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That's right. And I'm
losing an important part
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of my life that
obviously is accurate,
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if something that was
important to you to say
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I'm losing an
important part of my life,
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its accurate, its
realistic it's not distorted.
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What about my world has ended?
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My world has
ended is a distortion,
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the person who's
stating that their world
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is still going on, yeah,
they're still alive their
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world is not
ended, they're still alive
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and but yet when they
state that and believe it,
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it's gonna defeat them,
It's gonna send them down.
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What about, I just cannot,
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I refuse to live without
her? I can't live without
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her and you know
we had an individual
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that went through our depression
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recovery program,
who had gone through
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a break up and well
they weren't married
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but it was someone
that, had planned on
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getting married
to and this woman
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had broken up with
her and he wouldn't
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utilize those times.
I can't live without her
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and that's a defeatism
term, it's not accurate
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at all, he was living
as he was talking to me
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about her. And it is
inaccurate and taking
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it too far. So, a
better way to say that then,
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I think we have a
graphic that shows this,
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a better way to say
these kind of things.
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A better way to
state it would be that
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I will miss the
companionship of all and
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the love that we
shared. Yes, and that would
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have been a very
desirable way for him to
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express it. He obviously
missed the companionship
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and love that he
shared with her and that's
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accurate and he
stated that way is tender,
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it's realistic,
it's desirable and will
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enhance your
humanity and add depth to the
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meaning of life. So,
that it depends I mean
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as a man thinketh so is
he, as the spiritual text.
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That's right. So the
way you think cognition
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and forms the way
you behave and if you can
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change the thoughts
that's the therapy part
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of cognitive behavioral therapy.
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Change the thoughts
into what's accurate,
00:09:43.10\00:09:45.15
now it's not fantasy
thoughts. You know some
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people will say well
the way to get over loss
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is just don't think
about the loss and try to
00:09:50.01\00:09:52.12
think of some sort
of fantasy thing that
00:09:52.13\00:09:54.97
will make you happy
so that you can get rid
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of that gnaw aching
feeling on the inside
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but that's a set up
for problems as well.
00:10:02.37\00:10:04.57
So, really stating
what has happened but saying
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it in a realistic
manner, saying it in a realistic
00:10:08.11\00:10:11.59
manner. Now, here is,
your next graphic says
00:10:11.60\00:10:13.43
I will never be happy
again because she or he
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has died. It's unfair,
yes, that trigger thoughts
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of self-pitying
and hopelessness.
00:10:20.86\00:10:22.42
Those thoughts are
based on distortions
00:10:22.80\00:10:24.76
and will defeat
whoever says it, and so we need
00:10:24.77\00:10:29.80
to have our thoughts,
we really need to analyze
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them at that time and
you know when we first
00:10:34.37\00:10:36.50
go through a loss is
when we tend to blow it
00:10:36.51\00:10:39.03
out of proportion as
well I mean stage one
00:10:39.04\00:10:41.27
of loss is a stage
of shock and disbelieve
00:10:42.22\00:10:46.92
and so particularly I
want to know unexpected
00:10:47.81\00:10:50.04
loss I mean its
shocking and you're in a state
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of denial sort to
speak you're saying this loss
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isn't actually
occurring you know it's almost
00:10:56.83\00:11:00.22
like you know it's a
movie that's not real,
00:11:00.23\00:11:03.45
and it's kind of interesting to
00:11:04.76\00:11:06.31
September 11th,
people who witnessed that,
00:11:06.32\00:11:08.18
stated like they are
witnessing a movie that
00:11:08.48\00:11:11.82
wasn't real, well
that was a stage of shock
00:11:11.83\00:11:14.34
and disbelief, the
state of denial and that stage
00:11:14.35\00:11:17.51
should last no
more than a few minutes
00:11:17.52\00:11:20.74
sometimes it might last
up to 24 hours in severe
00:11:21.19\00:11:24.77
losses but after that
time period we really need
00:11:24.78\00:11:27.78
to state that loss
and accurate terms and
00:11:27.79\00:11:31.95
our thoughts as
well as our speech.
00:11:31.96\00:11:33.44
Is this one of the
reasons people say that if,
00:11:34.22\00:11:36.83
if it's possible it's
good to see the person
00:11:36.84\00:11:40.10
that has died?
Yes, that's right,
00:11:40.11\00:11:43.07
it makes it accurate,
you know a lot of people
00:11:43.08\00:11:46.17
state that well I
just don't want to see them
00:11:46.53\00:11:48.66
that way, but we
need to come to grips with
00:11:48.67\00:11:52.03
reality and that helps
us. Visually as well to come
00:11:52.04\00:11:56.66
to grips with
reality. So, stage one then is
00:11:56.67\00:11:59.56
you know moving
from the denial to saying
00:12:00.26\00:12:02.85
yes this happened,
that's right. And then,
00:12:02.86\00:12:04.85
what about stage 2
of grief? Well, stage 2
00:12:04.86\00:12:07.77
is the stage of
developing awareness,
00:12:07.78\00:12:10.38
the duration here is
much longer it will last
00:12:10.91\00:12:13.33
three months
maybe very sever losses
00:12:13.34\00:12:15.77
up to 12
months. During that time
00:12:15.78\00:12:17.87
there is a preoccupation
with the loss or you're
00:12:17.88\00:12:20.34
continually
thinking about it and really
00:12:20.35\00:12:22.63
thinking of the
consequences of it,
00:12:22.64\00:12:24.24
tend to be
associated with anxiety,
00:12:24.65\00:12:26.39
restlessness and even
difficulty at sleeping
00:12:26.40\00:12:29.19
as a result of the
loss. And I mean this is,
00:12:29.91\00:12:33.90
this is normal for
it to last that long,
00:12:33.91\00:12:36.05
it's normal and
whether that losses due to loss
00:12:36.06\00:12:38.86
of job or the loss
of a vision or the death
00:12:38.87\00:12:43.23
of a loved one or
loss of a limb or whatever,
00:12:43.24\00:12:45.99
it can last 3 to 12
months that stage of developing
00:12:47.10\00:12:51.46
awareness and of
course that's the time
00:12:51.47\00:12:53.16
we need to be
analyzing our thoughts as well.
00:12:53.17\00:12:55.29
So, you need to
talk a lot about losing,
00:12:55.30\00:12:57.54
a limb but you're
also talking about
00:12:57.55\00:12:58.63
losing a vision,
what do you mean by that?
00:12:58.64\00:13:00.85
Well, for
instance someone might have
00:13:01.34\00:13:03.89
planned on being a physician.
00:13:04.28\00:13:05.57
And they were
shocked that they couldn't
00:13:07.02\00:13:09.84
do well in MCAT for instance.
00:13:09.85\00:13:11.48
And they had always
thought about themselves
00:13:11.92\00:13:13.71
being a physician and
now they realize that,
00:13:13.72\00:13:15.88
that vision is lost,
it's not possible for them.
00:13:15.89\00:13:18.47
And there can be a
period of grief as a
00:13:19.04\00:13:22.92
result of that. You
might have the vision that
00:13:22.93\00:13:25.93
you're you know,
that you would have kids
00:13:25.94\00:13:27.86
for instance and,
and there maybe parents
00:13:27.87\00:13:30.10
who are always planning on that,
00:13:30.11\00:13:31.60
they didn't have
children, loss of a vision.
00:13:31.61\00:13:34.01
And they might help to
stay with the physician,
00:13:35.93\00:13:37.69
when you gets the
phone calls all night that
00:13:37.70\00:13:39.66
might help you really reorient,
00:13:39.67\00:13:41.68
and that's
right. Well, you know,
00:13:42.10\00:13:43.11
and these are
not to be minimize,
00:13:43.12\00:13:44.42
I mean people
whatever the vision is,
00:13:44.43\00:13:46.93
it can really, really
just change your world
00:13:46.94\00:13:50.39
when you realizes and
just not going to happen.
00:13:50.40\00:13:52.55
Yeah, that's
right. And often it is for
00:13:52.98\00:13:54.71
our best good. You
know, particularly for
00:13:54.72\00:13:56.53
Christians were
given a promise that when
00:13:56.54\00:13:58.39
we are crying, we're
in Christ that all things
00:13:58.40\00:14:01.88
well worked together for good.
00:14:01.89\00:14:03.23
And so, if that
person ended up not becoming
00:14:03.84\00:14:07.84
a physician because of the MCAT,
00:14:07.85\00:14:09.79
it's actually
better for them not
00:14:09.80\00:14:11.53
to be a
physician. We're talking with
00:14:11.54\00:14:13.02
Dr. Neil Nedley,
we're talking about
00:14:13.03\00:14:14.40
overcoming loss,
something we really
00:14:14.41\00:14:16.62
we're never too
experienced, but because
00:14:16.63\00:14:18.88
we all will experience
and how do we deal with it?
00:14:18.89\00:14:21.07
When we
comeback we'll talk about
00:14:21.08\00:14:22.44
other stages and
how to overcome loss.
00:14:22.81\00:14:26.50
Join us when we comeback.
00:14:26.51\00:14:27.48
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Welcome back we're
glad you've join us
00:15:30.41\00:15:31.66
for Health For A Lifetime.
00:15:31.67\00:15:32.64
We're in the middle
of a discussion with
00:15:32.90\00:15:34.31
Dr. Neil Nedley
about loss, it's something
00:15:34.32\00:15:37.02
we really never
should have had to
00:15:37.03\00:15:38.76
experience and
whatever you're experiencing
00:15:38.77\00:15:41.63
today our heart goes out to you,
00:15:41.64\00:15:43.26
but how is it that you
can deal with that loss?
00:15:43.76\00:15:46.22
How can you overcome
it, put it in perspective?
00:15:46.23\00:15:49.76
And we talked
about several things;
00:15:50.16\00:15:51.82
we've talked
about different stages.
00:15:51.83\00:15:53.51
First of all, recognizing
that we've had a loss
00:15:53.52\00:15:55.92
and awareness of
it and that you said,
00:15:55.93\00:15:57.84
Dr. Nedley who can last any,
00:15:57.85\00:16:00.16
suppose to last
like 24 hours or less.
00:16:00.17\00:16:02.19
Well that's, that's
the, idea, stage of shock
00:16:02.82\00:16:05.00
and disbelief,
shock and disbelief,
00:16:05.01\00:16:06.83
yeah less than 24
hours. And then the next stage,
00:16:06.84\00:16:09.81
the stage of
developing awareness last longer
00:16:09.82\00:16:12.36
anywhere from 3 to 12
months and it's important
00:16:12.37\00:16:14.54
during that stage, if
the person not go through
00:16:14.55\00:16:17.77
some sudden life
changing decisions,
00:16:17.78\00:16:20.52
often people will
make some pretty impulsive
00:16:20.53\00:16:23.00
decisions as a result
of that loss and then live
00:16:23.01\00:16:27.49
to regret it because their mind
00:16:27.50\00:16:28.88
is preoccupied with
it, they're wanting to get
00:16:28.89\00:16:31.00
that pain over with
and they'll you know move
00:16:31.01\00:16:34.83
to a different state,
they'll, get remarried.
00:16:34.84\00:16:39.17
Right, get remarried
very quickly to help deal
00:16:39.18\00:16:42.61
with the pain
etc. And then a year
00:16:42.62\00:16:45.51
later they say, how in
the world did this happen?
00:16:45.52\00:16:48.14
And then it's very
difficult to get back to
00:16:48.73\00:16:50.93
the place where they
were, and so they really
00:16:50.94\00:16:52.59
need to endure
through that 3 to 12 month
00:16:52.60\00:16:55.78
period as they gradually
improve their thinking,
00:16:55.79\00:17:01.74
as they adapt to the
loss and find ways of,
00:17:01.75\00:17:05.43
of replacing that
loss as much as possible
00:17:06.17\00:17:10.22
in a healthy
manner. So, they must move
00:17:11.17\00:17:14.25
then from the
stage two to stage three?
00:17:14.26\00:17:16.06
Well, stage three is
very important stage.
00:17:16.66\00:17:20.14
And this starts from 3
to 12 months after a loss.
00:17:20.71\00:17:23.68
And during this stage
there is an incorporation
00:17:24.15\00:17:26.30
of new habits.
There's also lifestyle changes
00:17:26.31\00:17:29.69
that occur as a
result of the loss.
00:17:29.70\00:17:31.57
And during this stage
there should be making
00:17:32.08\00:17:35.82
wise plans for the
future. This is where
00:17:35.83\00:17:38.29
they're well thought
out analytical plans.
00:17:38.30\00:17:41.27
So, in another
words look before you leap
00:17:42.06\00:17:43.77
and you're, you're
kind you're, you're,
00:17:43.78\00:17:45.56
you're experiencing
the loss, but you just are
00:17:45.57\00:17:48.89
calculating this maybe
involving other people.
00:17:49.29\00:17:51.67
That's right, and
actually you can incorporate
00:17:52.23\00:17:54.23
some new
healthy lifestyle habits
00:17:54.24\00:17:56.58
as a result. One
of the ways in which
00:17:56.59\00:17:58.65
our 100-year-old
person that I talked about
00:17:58.66\00:18:01.09
earlier and
others do, do so well.
00:18:01.10\00:18:05.27
Even under loss is
they use the loss actually
00:18:05.28\00:18:08.52
grow from the loss. And
of course that's difficult
00:18:08.53\00:18:12.37
to think about
particularly you know,
00:18:12.38\00:18:14.10
when you're dealing
and really with that loss
00:18:14.11\00:18:17.23
the first week or
so, but you need to start
00:18:17.24\00:18:20.45
analyzing it, how can
I grow from this loss.
00:18:20.46\00:18:23.99
There was an
interesting study done on men,
00:18:24.62\00:18:28.30
this was a study
on men whose immune
00:18:28.31\00:18:30.54
systems had
already been compromised,
00:18:30.55\00:18:32.43
so they were already
ill. And they had experienced
00:18:32.44\00:18:36.11
the loss of a loved
one. And this study group
00:18:36.12\00:18:41.79
became to see how
they handle the loss
00:18:41.80\00:18:45.69
differently and
what happened to their
00:18:45.70\00:18:47.43
immune system? And
it turned out 65% of men
00:18:47.44\00:18:51.49
actually attempt
to cognitively process
00:18:51.50\00:18:54.34
the loss. This is
mains that they're reflecting
00:18:54.35\00:18:59.53
on the loss,
they're reflecting on life's
00:18:59.83\00:19:01.87
meaning and value
even that was a death
00:19:01.88\00:19:04.89
that they were
dealing with; it does lead
00:19:04.90\00:19:06.85
people to a
period of introspection.
00:19:06.86\00:19:08.97
And it turns out that's good.
00:19:09.41\00:19:10.54
You want to be in that
65% that are reflecting
00:19:11.76\00:19:15.74
on the loss. Okay.
But after that the group
00:19:15.75\00:19:21.39
was pretty much
equally divided three ways.
00:19:21.40\00:19:23.80
Group one, I think
we have, there I say
00:19:25.10\00:19:28.57
graphic. For some
their loved one's death
00:19:28.58\00:19:31.36
only emphasized the
negative aspects of life.
00:19:31.37\00:19:34.45
Now, how do you think
they did? Not so well,
00:19:35.32\00:19:38.26
they were looking at
everything as a negative.
00:19:38.27\00:19:40.15
That's right,
they did not do well,
00:19:40.16\00:19:42.35
their immune systems
were further worsening
00:19:42.36\00:19:44.59
as a result. On
group two, you would think
00:19:44.60\00:19:48.64
that this group did
better they just simply
00:19:48.65\00:19:51.49
accepted the death and moved on.
00:19:51.50\00:19:53.69
And you would think well
that's, that's healthier,
00:19:54.97\00:19:57.45
it turns out group
two did no better than
00:19:57.46\00:20:00.97
group one in the
study. So, minimizing
00:20:00.98\00:20:03.95
or ignoring it
basically doesn't help.
00:20:03.96\00:20:05.70
It doesn't help like
many people have previously
00:20:05.71\00:20:08.95
thought that it
does. The only group that
00:20:08.96\00:20:12.30
significantly
improved was group three.
00:20:12.31\00:20:15.31
And group three, the
demise of their loved
00:20:16.07\00:20:18.96
one led them to a new
found respect for life
00:20:18.97\00:20:21.72
and a commitment to
significantly improve
00:20:21.73\00:20:24.45
their personal
life. And those people's
00:20:24.46\00:20:27.64
immune system
actually improved as a result
00:20:28.01\00:20:31.69
of the loss. Their
immune system was better
00:20:31.70\00:20:34.16
after the loss long
term then it was before
00:20:34.52\00:20:36.93
that loss occurred.
So, that came from their
00:20:36.94\00:20:39.88
choice, their
commitment, their analysis.
00:20:39.89\00:20:42.02
That's right, new
found respect for a life
00:20:42.03\00:20:44.20
and a commitment to
improve their personal life.
00:20:44.21\00:20:46.79
Did that happen
ever in your life?
00:20:47.95\00:20:49.87
Actually it has I, I
dealt with the loss four
00:20:50.59\00:20:54.66
years ago now, that
was the hardest thing
00:20:54.67\00:20:58.34
that I've gone
through, my father
00:20:58.35\00:21:00.62
and I were very
close, he was always
00:21:00.63\00:21:03.78
a good counselor and
I could call him up on
00:21:03.79\00:21:06.82
the phone, and he
had never tell me what
00:21:06.83\00:21:09.27
to do when they were decisions,
00:21:09.28\00:21:10.66
but he would help
clarify the principles
00:21:10.67\00:21:12.91
and the issues and
of course leave the
00:21:12.92\00:21:15.03
decision with me, but it
was almost like you know,
00:21:15.04\00:21:17.80
a phone call to
Jesus Christ you know,
00:21:17.81\00:21:22.03
the way He
helped clarify issues.
00:21:22.04\00:21:23.71
Of course my father
was very close to God.
00:21:23.72\00:21:25.58
And it was also a
very objective analyzer.
00:21:26.09\00:21:29.68
And he helped me
I've done lot of things
00:21:30.17\00:21:31.49
including my
books etc, the reason
00:21:31.50\00:21:33.21
why I haven't put
out as many books likely
00:21:33.22\00:21:35.06
is because of, of
that loss that we haven't
00:21:35.07\00:21:37.33
been able to, to
necessarily replace
00:21:37.34\00:21:39.71
at this point in time,
but it was a sudden death,
00:21:39.72\00:21:42.49
shocking death and
it was a death that
00:21:43.15\00:21:48.13
I couldn't see really
at the time how anything
00:21:48.14\00:21:50.39
good could come of it.
I have to remind myself
00:21:50.40\00:21:54.27
that they were very
good people that the Lord
00:21:54.28\00:21:56.53
allowed to die in
the past you know,
00:21:58.07\00:21:59.65
even John the
Revelator eventually died.
00:21:59.66\00:22:03.78
Of course John the Baptist died
00:22:04.21\00:22:05.90
and he was the
greatest prophet etc.
00:22:05.91\00:22:07.71
So, just because it
was a death doesn't mean
00:22:08.15\00:22:09.96
or even a young
death doesn't mean
00:22:10.82\00:22:12.62
the Lord is not with
the individual at all,
00:22:12.63\00:22:14.81
but I had to
realize that my growing from
00:22:15.92\00:22:20.90
the loss occurred
because I recognize my
00:22:20.91\00:22:24.50
need to establish
the spiritual connection
00:22:24.51\00:22:27.84
like my father
had. So, you made a
00:22:27.85\00:22:29.99
commitment to that. I
made a commitment to that.
00:22:30.00\00:22:32.04
And I knew I
couldn't call him up anymore
00:22:32.73\00:22:34.77
and get that wisdom
and it was so easy before,
00:22:34.78\00:22:37.03
but now I committed
to establishing a much
00:22:37.41\00:22:42.00
improved
relationship with God, so that
00:22:42.01\00:22:44.84
I can hear the same
voice that he heard.
00:22:44.85\00:22:46.44
Yeah. And, and
get it directly from,
00:22:46.89\00:22:50.13
from the spiritual
sword. And that's gonna be
00:22:51.14\00:22:53.61
a blessing not only
to you, but hopefully
00:22:53.62\00:22:55.65
to your boys as
well, so as they have a
00:22:55.66\00:22:58.12
relationship
with your dad. Right.
00:22:58.13\00:22:59.93
Well, you know I
thought about as you're talking
00:23:00.51\00:23:02.76
I had a similar loss
one generation removed
00:23:02.77\00:23:06.20
I was attending
the, the Adventist
00:23:06.21\00:23:09.84
Theological
Seminary two years back now
00:23:09.85\00:23:12.43
in the early 90s
and late 80s, early 90s
00:23:12.80\00:23:17.00
and my
grandfather was older than and
00:23:17.01\00:23:19.82
he moved in with me
because he was getting
00:23:19.83\00:23:22.64
up in years. And
like I said that Psalm
00:23:22.65\00:23:25.29
had talked about
declaring God's strength
00:23:25.30\00:23:28.91
to this generation,
the generation to come
00:23:28.92\00:23:30.64
he took that seriously
and he would go with me
00:23:30.65\00:23:33.69
and do almost
everything with me.
00:23:33.70\00:23:35.54
And he was quite
objective as well,
00:23:35.98\00:23:37.94
I mean I was on
a basketball team
00:23:37.95\00:23:39.44
and he was say to me, you know,
00:23:39.45\00:23:40.42
that's really kind of
crazy to run up and down.
00:23:40.43\00:23:42.86
Let me understand
you're trying to put
00:23:44.32\00:23:45.54
this ball
through this hoop here,
00:23:45.55\00:23:46.77
okay he says now I
don't, I don't understand
00:23:47.27\00:23:49.90
the real focus of
that and the eternal scheme
00:23:49.91\00:23:52.70
of things, but I'll
go with you and he would
00:23:52.71\00:23:54.74
pray for us and he
would say, you know,
00:23:54.75\00:23:56.36
Lord protect these
foolish young people as they
00:23:56.69\00:24:00.36
run up and down
and put that ball there
00:24:00.37\00:24:02.53
and you know, we called
our team the Patriarchs,
00:24:02.54\00:24:04.79
we named it after him because
00:24:04.80\00:24:05.85
he was a
Patriarch. And you know,
00:24:05.86\00:24:08.74
as I would go to the school
00:24:09.10\00:24:10.08
there I'd come home
and I tell him some ideas
00:24:10.09\00:24:13.27
and he'd say, well
give me that volume
00:24:13.28\00:24:15.58
there off of the
shelf or give me the Bible
00:24:15.59\00:24:19.45
and read this verse
with that, or give me
00:24:19.46\00:24:21.91
you know, that the
red book there or there,
00:24:21.92\00:24:24.51
read that. And it
would be exactly what
00:24:24.52\00:24:28.53
I needed to hear.
And I became aware
00:24:28.54\00:24:31.71
of that really
the Lord was using him
00:24:31.72\00:24:35.72
and send him to help
me out, whereas he was
00:24:35.73\00:24:38.18
asking me to help
him. And I remember as well
00:24:38.19\00:24:42.58
when he died that I
made a strong commitment to
00:24:42.59\00:24:48.63
I basically said, I
want to be like grandfather,
00:24:50.61\00:24:54.10
I want to be, yes,
connected with God,
00:24:54.63\00:24:57.87
I want to have
those spiritual resources.
00:24:58.23\00:25:01.16
And that that, that was
a defining part of life,
00:25:01.60\00:25:05.11
defining part. Yes,
you know it's interesting
00:25:06.33\00:25:09.40
and the classical
work ministry of healing
00:25:09.41\00:25:11.71
Ellen White tells
a story and of course
00:25:11.72\00:25:14.31
many bird
people know this story,
00:25:14.32\00:25:17.10
when you're trying
to teach a bird a song
00:25:17.11\00:25:18.99
particularly birds are
capable of learning songs.
00:25:19.59\00:25:22.60
They can learn a snitch
of that, a trill of that,
00:25:23.10\00:25:25.35
but it's not until
you darken the cage
00:25:25.36\00:25:27.67
and teach that
song over and over that
00:25:28.47\00:25:32.07
then that bird would
break forth in perfect
00:25:32.08\00:25:34.73
melody on that song in the dark.
00:25:34.74\00:25:37.43
And then you
can uncover the cage
00:25:37.75\00:25:39.39
and that song will
be there for the bird's
00:25:39.86\00:25:42.25
rest of its
life. In other words,
00:25:42.26\00:25:44.77
the Lord may have
a song to teach us
00:25:44.78\00:25:46.76
and it's through the
shadows of reflection
00:25:47.31\00:25:49.55
that we often learn.
Another poet by the name
00:25:50.50\00:25:53.56
of Jane Eagleson
wrote a beautiful poem about
00:25:53.57\00:25:58.16
how the mountain
tops are glorious,
00:25:58.17\00:26:00.48
but it's in the
valleys that we grow.
00:26:01.02\00:26:03.15
And that's, that so
true, I mean people that
00:26:04.33\00:26:06.86
have experienced a
loss know that I mean
00:26:06.87\00:26:08.93
you look back in
your journals actually
00:26:09.37\00:26:11.04
you read the Bible.
Many times the best things
00:26:11.05\00:26:13.76
come out of you
know, the worse situation,
00:26:14.43\00:26:17.92
right, Book of Lamentations is
00:26:17.93\00:26:20.49
all about sorrow, but
you know the steadfast
00:26:20.50\00:26:23.59
love of the Lord never ceases,
00:26:23.60\00:26:24.95
his mercies
never come to an end,
00:26:24.96\00:26:26.96
they're new every morning,
00:26:26.97\00:26:27.94
great is thy faithfulness,
that wonderful text right
00:26:27.95\00:26:30.39
there in the middle
of it, yeah, Isaiah 63
00:26:30.40\00:26:33.32
where the Lord says,
"In all their afflictions,
00:26:33.33\00:26:35.61
I was afflicted with
them." All of those texts.
00:26:35.62\00:26:37.89
Yeah, and for
every disappointment
00:26:37.90\00:26:40.39
for a Christian
there is an appointment.
00:26:41.00\00:26:42.97
That's right.
Alright, and so we need
00:26:42.98\00:26:45.76
to recognize that
instead of just festering
00:26:45.77\00:26:48.63
on the disappointment.
You know, Daniel never
00:26:48.64\00:26:52.45
festered on it, he
had to put up with it,
00:26:52.46\00:26:54.58
he didn't enjoy
it, but he stayed close
00:26:54.59\00:26:57.40
to God and eventually
he saw the appointment.
00:26:57.41\00:26:59.73
That's wonderful and you know,
00:27:00.22\00:27:01.36
I think it's beautiful
too, we got a last minute
00:27:01.37\00:27:03.94
here when you understand
what the Bible teaches
00:27:03.95\00:27:06.75
about death itself, I
mean this is one of the
00:27:06.76\00:27:09.11
losses that we're
talking about that,
00:27:09.12\00:27:11.21
death according to
the Bible is a sleep.
00:27:11.22\00:27:14.08
That's right. And you
don't go immediately to
00:27:14.53\00:27:17.62
heaven or something
like that. So you know,
00:27:17.63\00:27:20.07
some of these
people that in their lives
00:27:20.08\00:27:21.85
'cause they think
they'll be immediately
00:27:21.86\00:27:23.56
there in heaven
and, and what not.
00:27:23.90\00:27:25.39
Well you know,
Susan Smith backed her
00:27:26.77\00:27:28.23
car into the lake to send her
00:27:28.24\00:27:30.12
"four children to
heaven" because of the marital
00:27:30.13\00:27:32.62
problems that her and
her husband were having.
00:27:32.63\00:27:34.30
And if she truly did
that she should be a hero,
00:27:34.78\00:27:36.97
but most people don't
believe in that firmly
00:27:37.44\00:27:40.06
enough to do what she did,
00:27:40.07\00:27:41.23
and it's an erroneous
belief that leads to a
00:27:41.24\00:27:43.12
lot of problems. So,
it's important to understand
00:27:43.13\00:27:45.66
really what happens
to people when they die,
00:27:46.28\00:27:48.08
but you know I think
the most important thing
00:27:48.09\00:27:50.04
when we deal with
loss is understanding
00:27:50.05\00:27:52.85
the resurrection power of Christ
00:27:52.86\00:27:54.87
and claiming that as well.
00:27:55.79\00:27:57.92