The following program presents principles 00:00:01.98\00:00:03.17 designed to promote good health 00:00:03.20\00:00:04.73 and is not intended to take the place of 00:00:04.76\00:00:06.85 personalized professional care. 00:00:06.88\00:00:08.67 The opinions and ideas expressed are those 00:00:09.34\00:00:11.55 of the speaker. Viewers are encouraged to 00:00:11.58\00:00:13.95 draw their own conclusions about 00:00:13.98\00:00:15.55 the information presented. 00:00:15.58\00:00:16.95 Hello, welcome to Health for a Lifetime. 00:00:49.99\00:00:51.16 I'm your host, Don Mackintosh. 00:00:51.19\00:00:52.46 We are glad that you joined us today 00:00:52.49\00:00:54.17 because we're gonna be talking about a very 00:00:54.20\00:00:55.93 important subject and in fact it afflicts many 00:00:56.15\00:00:59.24 people mostly women, but also some men 00:00:59.27\00:01:02.43 in America. And, it's the subject of 00:01:02.87\00:01:05.24 Bulimia and Anorexia. 00:01:05.27\00:01:07.65 So, joining us today to talking about this 00:01:08.10\00:01:10.46 important subject is Jennifer Schwirzer. 00:01:10.49\00:01:13.05 And Jennifer, where do you live? 00:01:13.44\00:01:14.83 Philadelphia. And, you're an author, 00:01:15.20\00:01:17.31 you're, you're singer. We met some years ago. 00:01:17.34\00:01:20.07 I've always appreciated your ministries and 00:01:20.10\00:01:22.55 you know you're sharing here in this subject 00:01:22.58\00:01:25.33 from the perspective of some really good 00:01:25.36\00:01:28.06 research been endorsed by you know, 00:01:28.09\00:01:31.82 dietitians and psychologists and 00:01:31.85\00:01:34.57 others, but also the thing is most powerful 00:01:34.60\00:01:36.90 about that, is that you're coming from your 00:01:36.93\00:01:38.75 own personal experience in a way as well. 00:01:38.78\00:01:40.96 That's right I'm a survivor. 00:01:41.30\00:01:42.52 Survivor of Anorexia. Okay, great. 00:01:43.24\00:01:45.49 Many years ago. So, let's talk about this 00:01:45.52\00:01:47.61 Anorexia and Bulimia. 00:01:47.64\00:01:50.19 How prevalent is this problem? 00:01:51.04\00:01:52.31 Well, lets look at our first graphic here about 00:01:52.83\00:01:56.28 5-10 million females in the US are thought 00:01:56.31\00:01:59.76 to have some form of disordered eating. 00:01:59.79\00:02:01.70 5-10 that's a lot. So, our population 00:02:01.73\00:02:04.68 is about almost 300 million, right. Umm! Umm! 00:02:04.71\00:02:07.33 So, you do the math. Okay. 00:02:07.36\00:02:09.76 It's a, it's a significant percentage. Umm! Umm! 00:02:09.79\00:02:12.16 So, 5-10 million. And, are there, 00:02:12.19\00:02:13.87 would there be some of those, 00:02:13.90\00:02:14.87 who would be considered border line 00:02:14.88\00:02:16.26 or are these four blown cases 5-10 million. 00:02:16.29\00:02:19.23 It no, not necessarily, but some form of 00:02:19.26\00:02:21.21 disordered eating meaning you're not 00:02:21.24\00:02:22.69 normal in the, in the area of eating. 00:02:22.72\00:02:24.62 Umm! Umm! Now, you know, 00:02:24.65\00:02:26.30 if thinness hasn't always been in or has it? 00:02:26.33\00:02:29.11 No, it has not always been in vogue like 00:02:29.14\00:02:31.42 it is today. In fact, days of your, 00:02:31.45\00:02:34.89 we have an association with beauty and, and 00:02:34.92\00:02:38.71 a little more flesh especially 00:02:38.74\00:02:40.08 in the female body. So, the soft folds 00:02:40.11\00:02:42.46 of a women's body that you know, 00:02:42.49\00:02:43.80 fullness of flesh was considered beautiful. 00:02:43.83\00:02:45.65 I think, look at the other, the next graphic, 00:02:46.47\00:02:49.13 think about some of the Renaissance 00:02:49.16\00:02:51.79 paintings for instance "The Mona Lisa." 00:02:51.82\00:02:53.46 She was not thin. You know, she looks. 00:02:54.16\00:02:56.39 She is you know. You know, she looks like, 00:02:56.42\00:02:57.42 she is put away a couple of veggie burgers. 00:02:57.45\00:03:00.22 That's right. She is, she full of flesh, 00:03:00.25\00:03:01.97 but that's considered beautiful. 00:03:02.00\00:03:03.48 I was looking at another painting. 00:03:03.51\00:03:04.94 This ones Da Vinci, I was looking at a 00:03:05.50\00:03:07.25 Michelangelo painting, the Creation of Eve. 00:03:07.28\00:03:09.33 And I, and I looked at Eve and I said, 00:03:10.04\00:03:11.52 you know, she would, she would 00:03:11.55\00:03:12.52 qualify as fat, today. Umm! Umm! 00:03:12.54\00:03:14.81 But that was considered beautiful back then. 00:03:14.84\00:03:17.20 Things have gradually changed. I want to 00:03:17.91\00:03:20.34 look at a couple of things having to do 00:03:20.37\00:03:21.79 with the industrial revolution because 00:03:21.82\00:03:23.21 that female standard of beauty, and, and well 00:03:23.24\00:03:27.00 rounded beauty was in place for many 00:03:27.03\00:03:29.66 centuries. Including Pre-Industrial 00:03:29.69\00:03:32.91 Revolution you can see by these graphics 00:03:32.94\00:03:34.67 that the women were you know, 00:03:34.70\00:03:36.19 they were normal to sometimes a little on 00:03:36.22\00:03:39.25 the full side. But then this radically changed 00:03:39.28\00:03:42.01 as a result of the Industrial Revolution 00:03:42.04\00:03:44.46 and let's look at Post Industrial Revolution 00:03:44.49\00:03:46.74 fashions. You can see the pinched waist. 00:03:46.77\00:03:49.12 What's that called? Corsets or. Yeah, 00:03:49.15\00:03:51.89 well they used corsets to get that look, 00:03:51.92\00:03:53.93 its, it's called the pinched waist or whatever. 00:03:53.96\00:03:56.14 These women have a much narrow profile 00:03:57.08\00:03:59.06 and they have that very small waist and 00:03:59.09\00:04:01.40 various forms. I would say this that various 00:04:01.43\00:04:03.59 forms of thinness although the thin is 00:04:03.62\00:04:06.09 change over the next couple centuries, 00:04:06.12\00:04:08.54 but various forms of thinness have been in vogue since then. 00:04:10.95\00:04:11.95 That just looks painful those dresses. 00:04:11.98\00:04:13.70 It, it is painful, but to them it's worth it 00:04:13.73\00:04:16.07 because they want that look. Umm! Umm! 00:04:16.10\00:04:18.20 So, the question is what changed as 00:04:18.23\00:04:21.00 a result of the Industrial Revolution 00:04:21.03\00:04:22.54 as relates to food. Yeah, a good question. 00:04:22.57\00:04:24.54 We're gonna break it down a little bit. 00:04:24.57\00:04:25.67 Alright, yeah. What changed, what changed? 00:04:25.70\00:04:27.30 What do you think about it? 00:04:27.33\00:04:28.33 Food became more processed. 00:04:28.36\00:04:30.53 That's right. Well, of it didn't just become 00:04:30.56\00:04:32.23 more processed it become more available. 00:04:32.26\00:04:34.70 More available, abundant. 00:04:34.73\00:04:36.45 Pretty much everybody had food after the 00:04:36.48\00:04:38.93 Industrial Revolution because of transportation 00:04:38.96\00:04:40.91 and different agricultural techniques. 00:04:40.94\00:04:43.04 You know, food wasn't only; abundant food 00:04:43.70\00:04:46.37 wasn't only something that the wealthy had 00:04:46.40\00:04:48.57 after the Industrial Revolution. 00:04:48.60\00:04:50.25 Was there a chicken in every pot? 00:04:50.28\00:04:51.74 That's right. And, so as a result there was a 00:04:51.77\00:04:54.18 changing thinking about body fat because 00:04:54.21\00:04:58.21 body fat, if you think about it is a form of 00:04:58.24\00:05:00.23 food, isn't it? That's. It's. 00:05:00.26\00:05:02.10 That used to be food. That's right. 00:05:02.13\00:05:03.73 Its food is a stored form. So, there were 00:05:03.76\00:05:06.31 changing thoughts on body fat. 00:05:06.34\00:05:08.18 And, I want to look at this graphic for a 00:05:08.21\00:05:09.86 moment here and just, just break this down 00:05:09.89\00:05:11.77 a little. As food became more available there 00:05:11.80\00:05:16.05 wasn't as much of a need for food in the 00:05:16.08\00:05:18.94 form of stored fat. So, in other words 00:05:18.97\00:05:21.37 you didn't have to be as fat like hybrid. 00:05:21.40\00:05:23.06 To get through the winter. 00:05:23.09\00:05:24.06 Through the winter, okay. 00:05:24.07\00:05:25.04 That's correct. And so fat became 00:05:25.05\00:05:26.20 disassociated from wealth. Women could 00:05:26.23\00:05:28.85 afford to go to be thinner because they didn't 00:05:28.88\00:05:31.67 need to worry about having to go for long 00:05:31.70\00:05:32.98 periods without food, right. And then as 00:05:33.01\00:05:35.42 a result of that, thinness eventually became 00:05:35.45\00:05:37.77 associated with wealth. So, the higher class 00:05:37.80\00:05:40.23 of women could afford to be kind of frail 00:05:40.26\00:05:42.51 and have that oh I'm fainting kind of look to 00:05:42.54\00:05:44.49 them you know. Okay. 00:05:44.52\00:05:45.52 That became vogue, that became you know, 00:05:45.55\00:05:48.11 if you think about it, the culture back then 00:05:48.14\00:05:50.28 was very much about women being very 00:05:50.31\00:05:52.24 frail and fainting all the time just, just 00:05:52.27\00:05:54.97 exhausted and all these things and men 00:05:55.00\00:05:56.71 coming to their rescue. So, thinness 00:05:56.74\00:05:59.35 and frailty became fashionable. 00:05:59.38\00:06:01.50 As partly as a result. 00:06:01.53\00:06:02.95 So, let me, let me just summarize this. 00:06:02.98\00:06:04.07 You, you're saying that, it used to be 00:06:04.10\00:06:06.13 necessary to be fat because you need to 00:06:06.16\00:06:07.93 hibernate through the winter or whatever. 00:06:07.96\00:06:09.71 Right. And fat was a sign of wealth because 00:06:09.74\00:06:12.52 you were, you were, you had what you 00:06:12.55\00:06:14.59 needed and everybody could see you had 00:06:14.62\00:06:16.09 what you needed to make it through hard times. 00:06:16.12\00:06:17.58 Right. But then it kind of shifted, 00:06:17.61\00:06:19.35 when food was really available. 00:06:19.96\00:06:21.18 They had the Wal-Marts and everything else 00:06:21.21\00:06:22.84 came in that, somewhat like that. 00:06:22.87\00:06:23.84 Well, they didn't have Wal-Mart. 00:06:23.87\00:06:24.84 Oh! they had, it was much more available. 00:06:24.85\00:06:25.93 That's right. And then wealth became 00:06:25.96\00:06:27.98 associated with, I'm so rich I could go get 00:06:28.01\00:06:30.50 food anytime I want down at the store. 00:06:30.53\00:06:32.94 Not only that, but I don't have to work. 00:06:32.97\00:06:34.76 I don't have to work hard. I just sit around 00:06:34.79\00:06:36.55 all day so, I can afford to be frail. 00:06:36.58\00:06:38.26 So, this was kind of a gradual metamorphosis. 00:06:38.29\00:06:40.60 And, this was the Industrial Revolution, 00:06:40.63\00:06:42.19 you mean by that when all of these things 00:06:42.22\00:06:43.96 became mechanized, all kinds that, there 00:06:43.99\00:06:45.64 was a mass production of everything. 00:06:45.67\00:06:47.46 And there were just a available of all kinds 00:06:47.49\00:06:49.57 of things. That's when the switch took place. 00:06:49.60\00:06:51.62 Roughly around that time that triggered this, 00:06:51.65\00:06:53.75 this chain of events that eventually led to 00:06:53.78\00:06:56.23 this idealized, idealization of, 00:06:56.26\00:06:58.95 of thinness in women. And then there were 00:06:58.98\00:07:01.35 several other factors. Like what? 00:07:01.38\00:07:03.47 For instance. Well, first of all I want to look 00:07:03.50\00:07:05.99 at graphic of, of a corset. 00:07:06.02\00:07:08.02 Just to give you an idea the kinds of things 00:07:08.45\00:07:10.32 women went through around that era to 00:07:10.35\00:07:13.27 make themselves look fashionable. 00:07:13.30\00:07:14.59 This corset effectively compresses the 00:07:14.62\00:07:18.51 internal organs. So, that you can get that 00:07:18.54\00:07:20.09 very thin waisted look. Very, very harmful 00:07:20.12\00:07:23.58 to the body obviously. Umm! Umm! 00:07:23.61\00:07:24.86 Push them all the organs up, 00:07:24.89\00:07:26.17 making it hard to breathe all that kind of stuff. 00:07:26.20\00:07:28.88 That's right. We're gonna later on. 00:07:28.91\00:07:29.90 We're gonna have a picture of person in a 00:07:29.93\00:07:32.37 corset, that's just extreme. 00:07:32.40\00:07:33.61 So, this took hold, this kind of fashion. 00:07:33.64\00:07:35.35 This kind of fashion and then in around the 00:07:35.38\00:07:37.71 1920s and I'm you know, fast forwarding 00:07:37.74\00:07:39.77 through a lot of decades here, but around the 00:07:39.80\00:07:41.29 1920s the idealization of thinness changed 00:07:41.32\00:07:45.08 a little bit into the flapper look. And, if you 00:07:45.11\00:07:47.95 remember instead of having that pinched 00:07:47.98\00:07:49.58 waist, the flapper was one straight thin kind 00:07:49.61\00:07:52.96 of tube like structure of a women's body. 00:07:52.99\00:07:55.62 And, then thin legs and thin arms, 00:07:55.65\00:07:57.39 but again another form of thinness is 00:07:57.42\00:08:00.02 idealized in the fashion world. Umm! 00:08:00.05\00:08:02.36 So, different you know, what you see as you 00:08:02.39\00:08:05.99 start to study these things is in one way or 00:08:06.02\00:08:08.01 another women are pinched, pulled, pushed, 00:08:08.04\00:08:10.15 stuffed to, to change into the ideal of fashion. 00:08:10.59\00:08:14.29 Umm! Umm! And ever since the 00:08:14.32\00:08:16.03 Industrial Revolution and worsening with 00:08:16.06\00:08:18.39 the time or increasing with time. 00:08:18.42\00:08:19.39 or increasing with time. The Ideal has been a 00:08:19.40\00:08:21.94 thin ideal for the most part. 00:08:21.97\00:08:23.34 So, and, and fashion I mean they want to 00:08:23.37\00:08:25.61 change every year because of course that's a 00:08:25.64\00:08:27.35 new revenue stream for them. They wanna 00:08:27.38\00:08:28.73 make it different, so what comes around 00:08:28.76\00:08:31.50 doesn't necessarily go around at least that 00:08:31.53\00:08:33.35 soon because they wanna make their money. 00:08:33.38\00:08:34.92 That's right. Okay, another factor that came 00:08:34.95\00:08:37.20 in, it was the sexual revolution of the 1960s. 00:08:37.23\00:08:39.71 And again we're fast forwarding through a 00:08:39.74\00:08:41.60 number of decades, but the sexual revolution 00:08:41.63\00:08:43.61 brought in several features. 00:08:43.64\00:08:46.22 One was birth control, women generally had 00:08:46.59\00:08:49.61 birth control available. So, they had "Sexual Freedom." 00:08:49.64\00:08:53.08 Partly as a result of that 00:08:55.24\00:08:56.21 and partly as a result of other factors 00:08:56.22\00:08:58.34 divorce increased. Umm! Umm! 00:08:58.37\00:09:00.30 Because older women were now finding 00:09:00.33\00:09:02.61 themselves single because of the increase 00:09:02.64\00:09:04.66 in divorce and they were finding themselves 00:09:04.69\00:09:06.25 active and dating. Umm! Umm! 00:09:06.28\00:09:08.85 There was a greater pressure on them to be 00:09:08.88\00:09:12.05 physically attractive. According to what 00:09:12.08\00:09:14.22 the fashions were. According to what 00:09:14.25\00:09:15.42 the fashions were and so they were more 00:09:15.45\00:09:17.44 and more pressured to conform to fashions 00:09:17.47\00:09:19.65 ideal of beauty. So, that they could 00:09:19.68\00:09:21.20 you know, work the market so to speak 00:09:21.23\00:09:23.21 and attract men. Umm! 00:09:23.87\00:09:25.61 The culture of the image is another factor 00:09:26.30\00:09:28.07 you know, the proliferation 00:09:28.10\00:09:29.93 of photographs in the later part of the 1900s. 00:09:29.96\00:09:33.52 I think the first photograph is sometime 00:09:34.28\00:09:35.44 back in the 1800s, but as technology 00:09:35.47\00:09:37.65 increased and now with computer. 00:09:37.68\00:09:39.25 The computer age, we have just the 00:09:39.71\00:09:41.54 availability of image is just, just very great 00:09:41.57\00:09:44.62 and we've images everywhere. So, I call it. 00:09:44.65\00:09:47.02 So, these, these, these photographs had been 00:09:47.05\00:09:48.66 really kind of negative because people 00:09:48.69\00:09:50.01 always want to look good in whatever 00:09:50.04\00:09:51.99 society says good is. 00:09:52.02\00:09:53.02 What's happening to women today is we're 00:09:53.05\00:09:55.28 constantly barraged with, with images 00:09:55.31\00:09:58.09 of perfect women? Umm! Umm! 00:09:58.12\00:09:59.79 And not only have these women have the 00:09:59.82\00:10:01.80 best of genetics. The best of make up and 00:10:01.83\00:10:04.95 hair design. The best of fashion, but they've 00:10:04.98\00:10:08.08 also had the best of plastic surgery, 00:10:08.11\00:10:10.92 they've had the best of computer generated 00:10:10.95\00:10:13.16 you know, cosmetics. I mean they look perfect 00:10:13.19\00:10:16.16 Umm! Umm! And, so we're constantly 00:10:16.19\00:10:17.43 surrounded with these images of female 00:10:17.46\00:10:19.86 perfection and it's, it's; very intimidating to 00:10:19.89\00:10:21.97 the average women, who is just you know, 00:10:22.00\00:10:23.46 normal looking. And, so that increased the 00:10:24.16\00:10:26.42 pressure I called that the, the culture of the 00:10:26.45\00:10:28.47 image because, it used to be, you had, 00:10:28.50\00:10:29.65 you got a magazine it was all printed words, 00:10:29.68\00:10:31.53 right. And people read, but now it's mostly 00:10:31.56\00:10:33.53 pictures and a few printed words. 00:10:33.56\00:10:34.97 So, the proliferation of the image has an 00:10:35.00\00:10:38.13 impact here and then if you think about the 00:10:38.16\00:10:39.71 fashion industry. Let's start back in the 00:10:39.74\00:10:42.66 1960s and 70s. Lets will start with Twiggy. 00:10:42.69\00:10:45.81 Do you remember Twiggy? 00:10:45.84\00:10:47.33 Twiggy 99 something like that, yeah 00:10:47.72\00:10:49.94 I remember hearing about this. 00:10:49.97\00:10:50.94 She was, she was Twiggy was 97 pounds. 00:10:50.95\00:10:53.25 Let's look at the graphic of Twiggy 00:10:53.28\00:10:54.59 here 97 pounds between 93 and 97 pounds 00:10:54.62\00:10:58.70 probably about 95 pounds. Umm! Umm! 00:10:58.73\00:11:00.54 And she was five foot six. 00:11:00.57\00:11:02.16 This was back in. Very tall, very thin. 00:11:02.66\00:11:04.53 This, she is not real super tall, but she is 00:11:04.56\00:11:06.53 very thin I mean 95 pounds 00:11:06.56\00:11:08.30 that's really, really thin. Alright. 00:11:08.33\00:11:10.00 I'm about a 115. So, 95 pounds would be 00:11:10.03\00:11:12.63 and I'm 5'6. So, 95 pounds would be 20 pounds 00:11:12.66\00:11:15.58 off of me. Wow! 00:11:15.61\00:11:16.89 That's was how thin Twiggy was. 00:11:16.92\00:11:18.51 Very thin, too thin. And that's too thin. 00:11:18.54\00:11:20.83 And so that jump started the thin, 00:11:20.86\00:11:22.90 what I would I like to call the thinness 00:11:22.93\00:11:24.35 revolution. And as a result, we have this; 00:11:24.38\00:11:27.57 this incredible obsession with thinness in our 00:11:28.34\00:11:30.91 culture today and particularly as pertains 00:11:30.94\00:11:33.65 catwalk fashion. This isn't so much true of 00:11:33.68\00:11:36.11 Hollywood actresses and actors, they're not 00:11:36.14\00:11:38.71 as skinny, but if you look at the catwalk models. 00:11:38.74\00:11:41.47 The ones that go down and show off the 00:11:41.82\00:11:43.34 different clothes at the whatever 00:11:43.37\00:11:45.62 the name of the designer is. 00:11:45.65\00:11:47.15 The reason they keep them so thin is 00:11:47.18\00:11:48.76 because they resemble a court hanger 00:11:48.79\00:11:50.32 The clothes just hang on them then the focus 00:11:50.35\00:11:52.46 is on the clothes and not on the women's body. 00:11:52.49\00:11:54.83 Now, you tell me. Who, what age group are 00:11:54.86\00:11:58.11 the ones that, that view these catwalk 00:11:58.14\00:12:00.55 models and that are most you know, 00:12:00.58\00:12:01.97 concerned with them. Probably teens and. 00:12:02.00\00:12:03.46 Teens, that's right. And, so they're trying 00:12:03.49\00:12:05.43 to impress them to buy all their clothes. 00:12:05.46\00:12:07.60 That's right. So, for these teenagers, 00:12:07.63\00:12:10.44 this very, very thi ideal is healthy for 00:12:10.47\00:12:12.65 them and not surprisingly eating disorders 00:12:12.68\00:12:15.61 are much more prevalent among young women. 00:12:15.64\00:12:17.54 We're talking with Jennifer Schwirzer. 00:12:18.05\00:12:20.60 She has a web page jenniferjill.org, 00:12:20.63\00:12:24.47 isn't that right? That's right. 00:12:24.50\00:12:25.77 And, you can access some of this 00:12:25.80\00:12:26.95 information there. Look if you're watching 00:12:26.98\00:12:28.95 today you know, for the young lady, 00:12:28.98\00:12:30.65 for the young man, mostly young ladies are 00:12:30.68\00:12:32.73 watching today. This history has been 00:12:32.76\00:12:34.95 illuminating, I mean the reason you're going 00:12:34.98\00:12:36.79 through this is trying to help these 00:12:36.82\00:12:38.97 individuals who are watching say, 00:12:39.00\00:12:40.26 hey look wasn't always this way. 00:12:40.29\00:12:41.95 There is another way to look at things, 00:12:42.72\00:12:44.15 don't just be a consumer, don't just 00:12:44.18\00:12:46.37 fall into this trap. 00:12:46.40\00:12:47.75 That's part of the recovery process is 00:12:47.78\00:12:49.98 recognizing that. You may have imbibed of 00:12:50.01\00:12:53.13 these messages even unconsciously 00:12:53.16\00:12:54.78 you might not even know how these things 00:12:54.81\00:12:56.06 are impacting you. And, if you could start to 00:12:56.09\00:12:57.56 identify it that's often the first step away 00:12:57.59\00:13:00.10 from the problem. Do you find that 00:13:00.13\00:13:02.09 a lot of people come up to you and talk with 00:13:02.12\00:13:04.82 you when you're presenting these 00:13:04.85\00:13:05.82 material in different places, maybe 00:13:05.83\00:13:08.07 someone's parents or just as it? 00:13:08.49\00:13:11.12 How about the people themselves that are 00:13:11.15\00:13:12.83 struggling with Anorexia, do they come 00:13:12.86\00:13:14.20 and talk to you. You know, in reality, 00:13:14.23\00:13:15.97 eating disorders are not that large of a 00:13:16.00\00:13:18.77 segment of the population. I think 00:13:18.80\00:13:20.30 the lifetime prevalence rate of Anorexia 00:13:20.33\00:13:22.21 is 0.5 percent, which is half of a percent that 00:13:22.24\00:13:24.46 means for the entire life of an individual, 00:13:24.49\00:13:27.41 if they have had it, Anorexia at anytime. 00:13:27.44\00:13:29.52 So, that's about 5, 0.5 percent 00:13:30.21\00:13:31.96 and then believe me it's between one 00:13:32.28\00:13:33.50 and three percent. So, it's not a huge 00:13:33.53\00:13:35.12 percentage of people that actually have the 00:13:35.15\00:13:36.94 disorder. However, everybody is influenced 00:13:36.97\00:13:39.55 by these cultural factors. And reacts in one 00:13:39.58\00:13:42.37 way or another to them and feels the 00:13:42.40\00:13:43.95 pressure that pushes some people over the 00:13:43.98\00:13:46.01 edge into an eating disorder. And, not only 00:13:46.04\00:13:48.50 that, but often people are a loved one of 00:13:48.53\00:13:50.72 someone with an eating disorder. Umm! Umm! 00:13:50.75\00:13:52.71 So, I, what I get a lot of when I give these 00:13:52.74\00:13:55.28 kinds of talks is women feeling a sense of 00:13:55.31\00:13:57.51 relief that yeah, I do feel like I have to 00:13:57.54\00:13:59.66 perfect and I'm not. Umm! Umm! 00:13:59.69\00:14:01.57 And they come to an understanding of, of 00:14:01.60\00:14:04.69 the way that society is impacting them 00:14:05.89\00:14:08.19 and then what I do is I appeal to them to 00:14:08.22\00:14:10.60 value themselves on a different basis than 00:14:10.63\00:14:12.46 the way they look. When we comeback, 00:14:12.49\00:14:14.29 we're gonna continue talking with 00:14:14.32\00:14:16.02 Jennifer Schwirzer about Anorexia and Bulimia. 00:14:17.13\00:14:20.09 We're gonna look at a little more of the 00:14:20.12\00:14:21.95 history, but you know what the impact 00:14:21.98\00:14:24.43 this has been on our culture and maybe how 00:14:24.46\00:14:26.66 we can start to avoid these problems. 00:14:26.69\00:14:28.87 So, join us when we comeback. 00:14:28.90\00:14:30.05 Have you found yourself wishing that you 00:14:31.64\00:14:33.01 could shed a few pounds, have you been on 00:14:33.04\00:14:35.28 a diet for most of your life, but not found 00:14:35.31\00:14:37.60 anything that will really keep the weight off, 00:14:37.63\00:14:39.45 if you have answered yes to any of these 00:14:40.25\00:14:42.02 questions then we have a solution for you 00:14:42.05\00:14:44.44 that works. Dr. Hans Diehl 00:14:44.47\00:14:46.96 and Dr. Aileen Ludington have written 00:14:46.99\00:14:48.99 a marvelous book that's called Reversing 00:14:49.02\00:14:51.31 Obesity Naturally and we would like to send 00:14:51.34\00:14:53.61 it to you free of charge. Here's a medically 00:14:53.64\00:14:56.54 sound approach, successfully used by 00:14:56.57\00:14:58.42 thousands, who were able to eat more 00:14:58.45\00:15:00.63 and lose weight permanently without feeling guilty 00:15:00.66\00:15:03.41 or hungry through lifestyle medicine. 00:15:03.44\00:15:05.94 Dr. Diehl and Dr. Ludington have been featured on 3ABN 00:15:05.97\00:15:09.45 and in this booklet they present a sensible approach 00:15:09.87\00:15:12.44 to eating nutrition and lifestyle changes that can 00:15:12.47\00:15:15.46 help you prevent heart disease, diabetes 00:15:15.49\00:15:17.39 and even cancer. Call or write today for your free 00:15:17.42\00:15:20.44 copy of Reversing Obesity Natural and you could be on 00:15:20.47\00:15:23.65 your way to a healthier, happier you, it's absolutely 00:15:23.68\00:15:27.15 free of charge, so call or write today. 00:15:27.18\00:15:29.85 Welcome back we are talking with Jennifer Schwirzer. 00:15:32.19\00:15:34.90 She has written a book on Anorexia and Bulimia, 00:15:35.27\00:15:38.17 it's called Dying to Be Beautiful and if you put 00:15:38.20\00:15:42.39 that in your search engine like I did just a few 00:15:42.42\00:15:44.09 minutes ago. It probably would come up or you can go 00:15:44.12\00:15:46.44 through her webpage jenniferjill.org. 00:15:46.47\00:15:50.48 You also are involved with like a vegetarian cafe 00:15:50.72\00:15:53.63 and you're saying and what, what don't you do? 00:15:53.66\00:15:56.18 You do a lot of different things. Windows. 00:15:57.26\00:15:58.92 You don't too, you don't do windows. 00:15:59.29\00:16:01.07 Okay and you are the mother of two. 00:16:01.10\00:16:02.50 Mother of two. And happily married for? 00:16:02.53\00:16:05.11 26 years. 26 years. 00:16:05.14\00:16:07.10 And you're a survivor from Anorexia and Bulimia. 00:16:07.39\00:16:10.12 That's right. So, whatever we talk about today. 00:16:10.15\00:16:12.17 The big message is you're sitting here, 00:16:13.87\00:16:14.84 so there is hope. That's right, that's right. 00:16:14.85\00:16:15.96 And what we talked about in the first segment, 00:16:15.99\00:16:17.96 if you just joined us was kind of the how Anorexia 00:16:17.99\00:16:21.49 and Bulimia have become more prevalent. Okay. 00:16:21.52\00:16:24.58 We've been talking about the fact that thinness is 00:16:24.68\00:16:26.49 not always been in, the changes that came through 00:16:26.52\00:16:28.68 the Industrial Revolution. The changes that came in 00:16:28.71\00:16:31.59 the fashion industry and then the sexual revolution 00:16:31.62\00:16:34.08 in the 1960s. That's right. 00:16:34.11\00:16:35.62 So, we talked about all those different things 00:16:35.65\00:16:37.27 and you led us through fact that you know, 00:16:37.30\00:16:39.14 fat used to be where it was that? 00:16:39.17\00:16:41.24 That's right. But now thin is in. 00:16:41.27\00:16:43.94 Many, many of us would love to go back to that day. 00:16:43.97\00:16:45.88 Right. And I mean it was the sign of being affluent. 00:16:46.14\00:16:48.89 That's right. And being someone that was looked 00:16:48.92\00:16:50.54 up to. That's right. That person has money. 00:16:50.57\00:16:53.36 That person has money because they, they. 00:16:53.39\00:16:56.26 That's right. They have eaten a lot of foods. 00:16:56.29\00:16:57.26 And its not that way. It's not now. 00:16:57.27\00:16:58.79 Now, its kind of shifted. That's right. 00:16:58.82\00:17:01.17 So, in the second segment you wanna look a little more 00:17:01.20\00:17:04.25 closely at you know, some more technical aspects 00:17:04.28\00:17:08.99 and then, what you called the fat gap? 00:17:09.02\00:17:10.88 What's the fat gap? The fat gap is the fact that for the 00:17:10.91\00:17:15.19 most part, we're gonna dwell on this a little more 00:17:15.22\00:17:16.83 later, but as the ideal of thinness has gotten thinner 00:17:16.86\00:17:20.81 and thinner with each passing year. 00:17:20.84\00:17:22.43 Real women have gotten fatter. 00:17:23.03\00:17:24.77 And, so what I'm saying is that women are not 00:17:25.36\00:17:28.64 succeeding at reaching their ideal of beauty. 00:17:28.67\00:17:31.53 And this sets them out for a lot of stress 00:17:31.99\00:17:34.68 and a lot of sense of failure. 00:17:34.71\00:17:36.22 Most women will diet, many women diet. 00:17:36.25\00:17:38.84 And most of them will fail to achieve their goal 00:17:39.30\00:17:41.99 in dieting. So, women are heavier than they would 00:17:42.02\00:17:45.61 like to be. And they're constantly faced with these 00:17:45.64\00:17:48.25 images of, of perfection and thinness 00:17:48.28\00:17:50.44 and beautiful figures and as a result for that feeling 00:17:50.47\00:17:53.93 a constant sensitive failure. Most women will 00:17:53.96\00:17:56.31 just kind of settle into that and feel defeated, 00:17:56.34\00:17:58.52 but there are a few women who will reach their goal 00:17:58.55\00:18:00.95 and a few of those who will go beyond it 00:18:00.98\00:18:03.36 and develop pathological dieting. 00:18:03.39\00:18:05.38 And that depends on their personal make up, 00:18:05.41\00:18:07.83 kind of who they are as a person. 00:18:07.86\00:18:09.19 The individual that goes over the line that has to do 00:18:09.22\00:18:12.53 with you know certain factors within them. 00:18:12.56\00:18:14.92 Umm! Umm! But the same, 00:18:14.95\00:18:16.03 the same pressure is on every single women. 00:18:16.06\00:18:18.23 And this is kind of triggered as these images 00:18:18.26\00:18:20.12 proliferate, in other words as. That's right. 00:18:20.47\00:18:22.29 Are you look at the new stand, you don't see, 00:18:22.32\00:18:24.59 you know, a whole bunch of people that are overweight. 00:18:25.13\00:18:28.87 Yeah. As the, as the model for what you wanna look like. 00:18:28.90\00:18:31.82 And we can do something to control how many image, 00:18:31.85\00:18:34.33 images we see obviously not watching television, 00:18:34.36\00:18:36.81 not watching movies, not watching, 00:18:36.84\00:18:38.45 not being on the web all the time and, 00:18:38.48\00:18:40.05 and getting fashion magazines, 00:18:40.08\00:18:41.97 but even the women who completely avoids all those 00:18:42.39\00:18:44.85 things is impacted by them because you know, 00:18:44.88\00:18:46.94 you go to grocery store. Umm! Umm! 00:18:46.97\00:18:48.55 And there they all are staring at you as you are 00:18:48.58\00:18:50.56 in the checkout lines. So, it does affect all of us 00:18:50.59\00:18:52.64 I think. So, you say that dieting is a 00:18:52.67\00:18:54.67 national pass time. It's a national, 00:18:54.70\00:18:56.77 I mean that just about everyone. 00:18:56.80\00:18:58.66 At one point or another is dieting. 00:18:59.10\00:19:01.03 People genially feel like they need to lose weight. 00:19:01.06\00:19:03.79 And the reality is. So, this is kind of that caught 00:19:03.82\00:19:06.04 me out of the situation is that most of us do. 00:19:06.07\00:19:09.82 Need to lose weight. That's right, we're, we're, we're a 00:19:10.67\00:19:13.47 fat nation becoming more so obesity. 00:19:13.50\00:19:16.12 Is this. It's pandemic. Yeah. 00:19:16.15\00:19:18.14 But I'm not focusing on that, that's a larger problem 00:19:18.17\00:19:20.83 affecting a greater population of people, 00:19:20.86\00:19:23.05 but there are few people that will, 00:19:23.46\00:19:24.91 will reacted the same. There is two things going on 00:19:25.30\00:19:28.05 the proliferation of images of perfect bodies. 00:19:28.08\00:19:30.29 But also the proliferation of food. 00:19:30.32\00:19:32.07 And the proliferation of images of food. 00:19:32.52\00:19:35.10 So, you're constantly being told be thin, be thin, 00:19:35.40\00:19:37.04 be thin and then you're told eat, eat, eat. 00:19:37.07\00:19:38.97 Yeah. You know, 00:19:39.55\00:19:40.52 if you watch like prime time television. 00:19:40.53\00:19:41.91 Some of the family shows and the you know, you know, 00:19:41.94\00:19:44.93 the girly shows and stuff. Right, Umm! Umm! 00:19:44.96\00:19:46.26 The women are always eating. I don't know, 00:19:46.29\00:19:48.39 if you've noticed that, but. I, I haven't noticed that. 00:19:48.42\00:19:50.37 You haven't noticed, but they're thin, 00:19:50.40\00:19:51.76 they're beautiful and they are eating all the time. 00:19:51.79\00:19:53.51 So, you're constantly getting this, 00:19:54.09\00:19:55.13 this duplicitous image. This duplicitous message 00:19:55.51\00:19:58.33 you know, eat and be thin. Yeah. 00:19:58.36\00:20:01.02 And they don't together. They don't go together. 00:20:01.05\00:20:02.88 And, so some women just respond to that by gaining 00:20:02.91\00:20:05.18 weight, but some just over the edge 00:20:05.21\00:20:06.91 and develop an eating disorder. 00:20:06.94\00:20:08.62 So, how do you know when you've developed an eating 00:20:08.86\00:20:11.22 disorder. How do you know, when you've crossed that 00:20:11.25\00:20:13.17 line from you know, a good sense of guilt. Yeah. 00:20:13.20\00:20:18.58 Saying, hey look I should be eating this and what not, 00:20:18.61\00:20:21.16 to becoming pathological. Well, we're gonna go into 00:20:21.19\00:20:25.25 the criterion for and the actual bonafide case of 00:20:25.28\00:20:29.41 Anorexia or Bulimia in the next show, 00:20:29.44\00:20:31.46 but I would say in, in a nutshell, if food and dieting 00:20:31.49\00:20:35.40 and figure are all important to you. 00:20:35.43\00:20:37.61 You've got a problem. Umm! Umm! 00:20:37.64\00:20:38.83 Because we are so much more then just 00:20:38.86\00:20:41.10 who we are physically you know. 00:20:41.17\00:20:42.74 Right, now I know that we haven't defined this 00:20:43.18\00:20:45.83 on this show and we're probably assuming people 00:20:45.86\00:20:48.14 know the difference between Anorexia and Bulimia but. 00:20:48.17\00:20:51.13 Umm! Umm! What is the difference between 00:20:51.16\00:20:52.89 Anorexia and Bulimia? Okay, in a nutshell, 00:20:52.92\00:20:55.35 Anorexia is self starvation, just not eating enough 00:20:55.38\00:20:59.59 to sustain your weight and Bulimia is a binging 00:20:59.62\00:21:03.00 and purging disease that involves the same diet 00:21:03.03\00:21:06.06 and thinness obsession. However, it manifest itself 00:21:06.09\00:21:09.11 in the different way. People would eat large quantities 00:21:09.14\00:21:11.54 of food and then find a way of purging either through 00:21:11.57\00:21:13.88 vomiting or exercise or other meanings. 00:21:13.91\00:21:17.04 So, if you are eating a lot and then going somewhere 00:21:17.07\00:21:21.60 else and throwing it up, you've got Bulimia. 00:21:21.63\00:21:23.30 That's a problem, yes. Well, you very well could. 00:21:23.33\00:21:25.74 Very well could. Yeah. 00:21:25.77\00:21:26.96 And, you know, I have mentioned to you 00:21:27.05\00:21:28.14 that in my own family and some of, some of my family, 00:21:28.17\00:21:31.04 they are, they are, there were a number of men that 00:21:31.07\00:21:33.30 had this and you were like kind of surprised. 00:21:33.33\00:21:35.98 I was surprise because 90-95 percent 00:21:36.01\00:21:38.92 of eating disorders are women. Umm! 00:21:38.95\00:21:41.29 And you can see why, because fashion impacts women 00:21:41.32\00:21:43.71 much more, men could be I say, this way men can be as 00:21:43.74\00:21:46.40 frumpy as they want typically. 00:21:46.43\00:21:48.23 I mean there is not as much stress on men to be 00:21:48.58\00:21:51.67 physically perfect. A man could be successful 00:21:51.70\00:21:54.41 and be pretty ugly. Okay. 00:21:54.44\00:21:55.83 But women, I'm serious about this. 00:21:55.86\00:21:57.42 Well, women have to be good looking. Umm! Umm! 00:21:57.58\00:21:59.50 And so there is not as much pressure on men. 00:21:59.53\00:22:01.15 I mean there is more now, now that men are starting 00:22:01.18\00:22:03.40 to get plastic surgery and everything, 00:22:03.43\00:22:04.99 but there is a way more and there is historically been 00:22:05.02\00:22:07.67 much more on women, much more pressure. 00:22:07.70\00:22:09.84 So, this is you know, this disparity between what we 00:22:10.83\00:22:13.21 expect men to look like versus women really 00:22:13.24\00:22:16.23 fuels this. That's right, it really fuels it 00:22:16.26\00:22:18.47 and for most women it just makes them very frustrated 00:22:18.50\00:22:21.53 and have very low self worth, but for some it 00:22:21.56\00:22:24.43 pushes them over the edge and they develop a full 00:22:24.46\00:22:26.63 blown eating disorder, so. Umm! Umm! And that's that, 00:22:26.66\00:22:29.23 that's the group we're talking about. 00:22:29.52\00:22:30.66 Usually people are suffering from diseases of over 00:22:30.69\00:22:33.97 abundance in America. That's right. 00:22:34.00\00:22:35.22 But these are, there is a few that just really get 00:22:35.25\00:22:37.66 caught. That's right, they get stuck. 00:22:37.69\00:22:39.69 And, how serious is this. It's pretty serious. 00:22:40.31\00:22:45.43 In fact lets look at the next graphic. 00:22:45.46\00:22:47.50 15-20 percent of those with eating disorders may die. 00:22:49.03\00:22:52.53 This is especially true of Anorexia, 00:22:52.56\00:22:54.53 which is self-starvation. 00:22:54.56\00:22:55.82 What happens in eating disorders, 00:22:56.32\00:22:57.75 is they take on a life of their own. 00:22:57.78\00:22:59.10 So, once someone starts limiting their food intake. 00:22:59.13\00:23:01.57 It sort of snowballs and they start eating less 00:23:02.17\00:23:04.61 and less and it feels right to them. Umm! Umm! 00:23:04.64\00:23:06.90 And so often anorectics literally starve themselves 00:23:06.93\00:23:10.56 to death. In fact eating disorders have the highest 00:23:10.59\00:23:13.64 fatality rate. The highest risk of premature death 00:23:13.67\00:23:17.56 of any psychiatric illness. You know, 00:23:17.59\00:23:19.24 I used to work for a small brief amount of time. Yeah. 00:23:19.27\00:23:22.88 You know in psychiatric care and there was a eaters, 00:23:22.91\00:23:25.32 eating disorders unit that I would flow to 00:23:25.35\00:23:27.76 and our biggest problem was, these people would be, 00:23:27.79\00:23:30.72 you know, they would be sneaking off and getting rid 00:23:31.14\00:23:33.36 of the food? They would make it look like they ate 00:23:33.39\00:23:35.57 the food. I mean they just were. They were like very 00:23:35.60\00:23:38.80 skilled at this whole thing and they, and, 00:23:38.83\00:23:41.72 and they were just set on their goal of losing weight. 00:23:41.75\00:23:45.54 I mean they just were focused on that. 00:23:46.16\00:23:47.67 So, this is, this is really you know, 00:23:48.55\00:23:50.41 this is really an issue and I, of course, 00:23:50.44\00:23:51.95 you've been through this. What kind of, is there help 00:23:51.98\00:23:54.73 is there hope, is there for the person that's been, 00:23:54.76\00:23:57.88 you're a survivor. I'm a survivor, 00:23:57.91\00:23:59.65 this is probably 25 years ago now. 00:23:59.68\00:24:01.90 So, it's a long time in the past, 00:24:01.93\00:24:04.36 but I'm a survivor of Anorexia. 00:24:04.39\00:24:06.08 There are two types of Anorexia. 00:24:06.80\00:24:08.18 One is a binging, purging type and the other is 00:24:08.21\00:24:10.80 just someone who just limits their food intake 00:24:10.83\00:24:13.11 and I was that type. I just you know, 00:24:13.14\00:24:16.77 it took on a life of it's own, like I said. 00:24:16.80\00:24:18.53 And I started to become sort of obsessed with the whole 00:24:18.56\00:24:21.87 conquest of being thin and I didn't realized 00:24:21.90\00:24:25.13 how bad off I was. I was in the process of dating my 00:24:25.16\00:24:28.11 husband and he would tell me things 'cause he had been 00:24:28.14\00:24:30.12 through something kind of similar. And, in fact 00:24:30.15\00:24:33.93 there are a couple kinds of Anorexia. 00:24:33.96\00:24:36.21 One has to do with religion and the other has to do 00:24:36.24\00:24:39.01 with diet, and thinness and fashion. The majority are 00:24:39.04\00:24:41.56 the fashion oriented ones, but there is a few people 00:24:41.59\00:24:44.30 that develop Anorexia because they're trying to 00:24:44.33\00:24:46.28 attain to a certain spirituality. 00:24:46.31\00:24:48.13 And that was true of him when he was in his spiritual 00:24:48.62\00:24:50.59 search in life. He was involved with various 00:24:50.62\00:24:54.11 eastern communities, eastern religion communities 00:24:54.14\00:24:57.65 and he ended up starving himself down to a 120 pounds 00:24:58.21\00:25:02.11 and he is five foot eight and very broad shoulder 00:25:02.14\00:25:04.53 and big boned guy and so this was very, very 00:25:04.56\00:25:06.94 under weight for him and he collapsed on the floor 00:25:06.97\00:25:10.04 and was not able to eat and he ended up living through 00:25:10.07\00:25:12.80 the experience, but he saw me in the condition I was in 00:25:12.83\00:25:16.21 and wanted to help me. And, so he was able to minister 00:25:16.24\00:25:19.38 to me and he would say things to me that would sort 00:25:19.41\00:25:22.06 of help me recognize that they were, 00:25:22.09\00:25:24.18 they was something really wrong. Umm! 00:25:24.21\00:25:26.02 And I want to say that most definitely there is hope. 00:25:26.05\00:25:29.22 I was, I was on the way down as an Anorexic. 00:25:29.25\00:25:31.85 In fact, my lowest weight was 85 pounds. 00:25:32.50\00:25:35.61 85. 85 pounds and that. 00:25:35.64\00:25:38.13 Now, you were still the same height and everything. 00:25:38.16\00:25:39.87 Same height and so I'm a 115 so that would be 30 pounds. 00:25:39.90\00:25:43.08 That would be 30 pounds off me, right. Wow! Yeah. Okay. 00:25:44.78\00:25:46.30 So, and I'm thin you know, so that was really, 00:25:46.33\00:25:48.46 really, really starving. Umm! Umm! 00:25:48.49\00:25:50.58 And, so my lowest weight was 85 pounds so today. 00:25:50.61\00:25:53.32 Now, you run a restaurant. I mean that's like 00:25:53.35\00:25:55.56 the opposite. I mean I pour olive oil in my food. 00:25:55.59\00:25:58.38 I mean Anorexics will avoid calories, 00:25:58.41\00:26:01.42 as best they can and eat lots of lettuce, and carrots, 00:26:01.45\00:26:04.24 and grapes and things that are gonna burn out 00:26:04.27\00:26:06.24 right away, but I'm always trying to gain weight, 00:26:06.27\00:26:08.26 I have this Ectomorphic body type. 00:26:08.29\00:26:10.75 And so I need the clarify that a thin person is not an 00:26:11.37\00:26:14.21 Anorexia necessarily. You know, 00:26:14.24\00:26:15.64 just cause someone is thin. Right. 00:26:15.67\00:26:16.89 That may just be the way they're made and it is kind 00:26:16.92\00:26:19.22 of the way I'm made, but I'm constantly trying to 00:26:19.25\00:26:20.76 gain weight, eating things that are too rich. 00:26:20.79\00:26:23.07 Say, I've never been on a program where women will 00:26:23.60\00:26:25.46 tell me how much they weigh. So, I mean this is like 00:26:25.49\00:26:27.30 the first for me. And, that, that's great I mean that's, 00:26:27.33\00:26:30.07 that's very necessary and your husband 00:26:30.10\00:26:31.48 how much does he weigh now. Oh! He's fine. He is like, 00:26:31.51\00:26:34.01 I don't know 150 or something. I even. 00:26:34.04\00:26:37.28 Okay. I've even ask him recently to be 00:26:37.31\00:26:38.32 honest with you. But he is, he is. He is fine. 00:26:38.35\00:26:40.21 Looking buff and good. Oh! You know, he 00:26:40.24\00:26:41.41 He is a rougher, he is physical kind of guy. 00:26:41.44\00:26:43.33 Yeah, he never went back, neither of us. 00:26:43.36\00:26:45.07 And, and that's the thing is it often people ask me 00:26:45.10\00:26:48.08 you know, do you still struggle with this, 00:26:48.11\00:26:49.40 not at all. Umm! Umm! 00:26:49.43\00:26:50.95 And so apparently it can be completely overcome 00:26:50.98\00:26:53.23 if you look at my own experience. 00:26:53.26\00:26:54.44 So, just you know, we've about a minute left. 00:26:54.47\00:26:57.21 Is there a spiritual component that helps you? 00:26:58.64\00:27:00.58 Oh! definitely Umm! You know, 00:27:01.00\00:27:03.83 I'm gonna touch on this in a later segment, 00:27:03.86\00:27:06.60 but all of the techniques that they have in the 00:27:06.63\00:27:10.15 counseling field really don't work that well on eating 00:27:10.18\00:27:12.34 disorders, but I have discovered the grace. 00:27:12.37\00:27:15.65 Has a very high success rate. 00:27:15.68\00:27:17.53 Every person that I've talked to, was, was helped by God. 00:27:18.19\00:27:21.56 We've been talking with Jennifer Schwirzer. 00:27:22.28\00:27:23.86 We've been talking about Anorexia and Bulimia. 00:27:23.89\00:27:26.08 You can get some of this information or more of it. 00:27:26.61\00:27:29.14 More information about her book "Dying to Be Beautiful" 00:27:29.76\00:27:33.54 on her website jenniferjill.org. 00:27:33.57\00:27:37.45 Thank you, so much for coming and sharing the 00:27:37.74\00:27:39.56 information. I'm looking forward to exploring more 00:27:39.59\00:27:41.88 of this with you in other programs, but two things 00:27:41.91\00:27:44.90 I'm saying for the research you've done. Umm! 00:27:44.93\00:27:46.84 And the fact that you're willing to share your 00:27:47.11\00:27:48.86 personal testimony. And, thank you for watching this 00:27:48.89\00:27:51.64 today and we're glad and we hope that as result 00:27:51.67\00:27:54.36