The following
program presents principles
00:00:01.98\00:00:03.23
designed to promote
good health and is not
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intended to take the
place of personalized
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professional care.
The opinions and ideas
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expressed are those
of the speaker. Viewers
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are encouraged to
draw their own conclusions
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about the information presented
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Hello and welcome to
Health For A Lifetime,
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I'm your host Don
Mackintosh. We're glad
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you joined us today.
Today, we're going to
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be talking about
an important topic
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especially well we're
gonna find it's not just
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for vegetarians, but
for people who eat, do you
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eat? You maybe
interested in today's
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topic. And joining
us today to talk about
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vitamin B12 deficiency
is Dr. George Guthrie,
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Dr. Guthrie is from
the Lifestyle Center of
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America in Southern
Oklahoma. He's been a
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physician for over 20
years, 25 years. He has
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done family medicine,
he is also taught at the
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Loma Linda School of
Health and we're glad
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you are with us
today. Glad to be here Don.
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And you are spending
sometime there in the
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Lifestyle Center of
America. What do they
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do there? At
Lifestyle Center of America, we
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have a live-in
lifestyle program, where people
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come with their
health problems. We focus on
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type 2 diabetes and
we help them treat their
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disease with the
lifestyle components.
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Minimize their
need for medication.
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And there is lots
of other programs now
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that are starting to
come out of that center, not
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just diabetes, but
also sometimes they, all
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different types of
programs on lifestyle.
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We work with Dr.
Neil Nedley with the
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depression program and
we're planning a special
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heart disease
program with Dr. Hans Diehl.
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Okay, so you have all
kinds of things coming
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out of their and your
lifestyle approach many
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times you come across
or at least think about
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this problem of
Vitamin B12 deficiency. Yes.
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So, tell us what
is vitamin B12 and how
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big is this
problem? Vitamin B12 is
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obviously as a
vitamin necessary for our
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bodies. It's a very
complex vitamin, it's
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kind of fun to look at
it's structure at least for
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biochemists. It's got a
little cobalt sitting in
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the middle and almost
a plain of carbons around
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it and then there is a,
kind of a little structure
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above and a little
structure below and this
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complex structure
makes it all vitamin B 12.
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So when you look at
it you, you can't believe
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that it just
popped into existence
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Oh! No, it doesn't pop
into existence. The little
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vitamin B12
complex is actually made by
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bacteria. Bacteria.
Bacteria. Plants don't
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make it, animals
don't make it, only bacteria
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make vitamin
B12. And they can make
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something that complex.
Yes, they do as a matter
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of fact. I was fascinated
to learn several months
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ago that bacteria
make it with two different,
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completely different
kind of formulations,
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they have two
different ways of making the
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same complex Vitamin
B12 molecule. It almost
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seems like the creator
was trying to leave his
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tracks, you see, there
is this incredibly complex
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vitamin molecule
that bacteria have two
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separate ways to make
it, kind of flies in the
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face of evolution to
me. Oh! Yeah, I guess so
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And do you know, it's
like a quarter back has
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like 64 different
ways to get to the end zone
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and bacteria have
two ways to make vitamin
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B12. Yes, right.
So, what does it do. In
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our bodies, see the
biochemistry of it gets a
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little confusion to
people. We have this
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little thing called
the methyl group. Carbon
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with some hydrogens
attached, its job is to do
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those type of
transfers in the body. It can
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happen in a variety
of different places. The
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areas that we think of
most are the nerves, the
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blood and then there
is another area that's
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called
homocysteine. May be we should
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spend a little time
talking about those.
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Okay, yeah, what
about the blood then.
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In my training,
when I was taught about
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vitamin B12
deficiency, I was taught that
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Vitamin B12 deficiency
shows up as an anemia,
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which is a blood
problem, which is a
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blood problem. There
is not enough blood, some
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people call it low
blood. The body needs the
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vitamin B12 in
order to put together the
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hemoglobin
molecules. When there is not
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enough of the Vitamin
B12, it has a hard time
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separating the cells
they end up being large and
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there will be few of
them. Okay, so if you
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don't have enough
vitamin B12 your blood is
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affected. You are
likely to have thin blood
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that is anemia. And
I was taught that was
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where we looked for.
We looked for if there
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was anemia. We
said, oh! May be that is a
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B12 deficiency. Is
there a specific blood
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test for it?
Well just the regular,
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what we call as CBC
will tell you if you're
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anemic and if the red
blood cells are large,
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that would mean that
it could be, we call it a
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macrocytic anemia,
macro large, cytic cells,
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so large cell anemia
and that's a common cause
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of that. But there is
no specific test for B12
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Oh! There is a
blood test, yes. There is
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Yes you can measure a
vitamin B12 level in the
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blood, but that's
not done in my opinion
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nearly as often as it should be.
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So, you order those at
the Lifestyle Center of
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America. We do them
on everybody that's comes
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in as a matter of
screening. So you said it
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effects not just the
blood, but also it effects
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the nerves. The
nerves. Vitamin, most of that B
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Vitamins are
important for nerve function
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Vitamin B12 is
important for nerve
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function as well and
it can present in a lot of
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different and interesting
ways. From depression,
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anxiety, irritability
to shooting pain in the
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nerves, it's
important for nerve function.
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And if it doesn't, if
it's not there you get, what
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does it do when it's
not there to the nerve.
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Well the nerve
doesn't function properly. I
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think it's probably the
best thing to say a sick
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nerve is not passing
messages like a healthy
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nerve is and the
symptoms vary, like
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they're often of all
the nerves. I think maybe in
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the second half we got a
little talk about that, a
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little more.Okay, so
the nerves and supposedly
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depending on where the
nerves are, the effects
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would be the
symptoms. Umm! Umm! So then
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so you have the blood
and you can test that by
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giving your hand by
just a typical blood test,
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but there is a
specific one and then the nerves
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and then the nerves,
there is no real test for
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that it's just more
symptoms. Well, if the
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doctor is suspicious
then the doctor would
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order a B12, B12 test
and then if it was low
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well then it would be
suspicious that those,
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there maybe a connection
What about homocysteine,
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that's a big word,
what does that mean?
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Oh! That's a big
word, yeah, it is. This one
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is rather interesting
to me. Homocysteine is
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made from an amino
acid called Methionine
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Methionine is generally
a protein, it's got sulfur
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attached to it, it's
generally high in animal
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products. When we
eat those, it's in plant
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products too, so it's
not like its only in animal
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products. This
Methionine is taken into
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the body and as the
body changes that and
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uses that
Methionine, it turns into
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homocysteine. But
homocysteine is toxic to
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the cells. The body
knows it doesn't belong
00:08:15.75\00:08:19.02
there and if your level
goes up the lining of the
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blood vessels gets
irritated, inflamed. And
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it increases the risk
of heart attack. Now you
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might ask how does
vitamin B12 fit into this.
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Yeah! That's exactly
what I was gonna ask.
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Well, vitamin B12 is
an important part of the
00:08:34.69\00:08:38.09
breakdown mechanism
for the homocysteine.
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Umm! So, homocysteine
can be recycled back into
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Methionine for the body
to use again as a protein
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using B12. It could
also be thrown away using a
00:08:48.27\00:08:53.47
couple of other B items
like folate and pyridoxine
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Okay so. Vitamin B12
is really important along
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with these other B
vitamins in helping to
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make sure that
homocysteine in the blood
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is not too high. Umm!
So, it's kind of like the
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trash collector
going down the street.
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Well, I don't think of
it. More of this would be a
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recycling system,
not really the trash
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collector.Yeah! The
recycling guy. Yeah!
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This is the
recycling guy who is gonna
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pick it up and recycle
it again. The homocysteine
00:09:20.75\00:09:23.82
will put you at high
risk for heart attack really
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The higher your
homocysteine, the
00:09:26.71\00:09:28.58
higher your risk of
heart attack. If our B12 level
00:09:28.61\00:09:32.25
is low that can
increase the homocysteine and
00:09:32.28\00:09:35.44
increase the risk of a
heart attack. So, it's kind
00:09:35.47\00:09:38.50
of, what I mean
with the trash man is he
00:09:38.53\00:09:39.96
comes by once a
week. He has that recycling
00:09:39.99\00:09:42.47
bin and he has the
trash. Okay. Some things he
00:09:42.50\00:09:44.07
throws away, some
things he recycles, but
00:09:44.10\00:09:46.25
if he doesn't make it
for two weeks. It's bad news
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Yeah! Your wife's
going to have a heart attack.
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So, B12 then, it effects
the blood and it, what was
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that again it causes
them not to get anemic if you
00:09:59.53\00:10:02.27
have it. Yeah, that's
right, that is low vitamin
00:10:02.30\00:10:04.87
B12 can end up in
anemia. And then secondly the
00:10:04.90\00:10:08.98
nerves and those are
different symptoms, but
00:10:09.01\00:10:10.68
they don't work right
there if they did not have
00:10:10.71\00:10:11.76
B12. Right. And then
the homocysteine, which is
00:10:11.79\00:10:14.67
very toxic to the
linings of the vessel and if we
00:10:14.70\00:10:17.88
don't take it out it's
going to take us out. Very
00:10:17.91\00:10:20.72
likely too, that's correct.
Alright, then well, let's
00:10:20.75\00:10:22.71
move on. Okay. Who is at
risk for difficulties with
00:10:22.74\00:10:28.82
vitamin B12 deficiency.
Generally, we think of
00:10:28.85\00:10:36.04
vitamin B12 coming
into our diet from animal
00:10:36.07\00:10:40.20
products. Umm!
Umm! Right, so we would
00:10:40.23\00:10:43.49
expect people who don't
eat animal products to be
00:10:43.52\00:10:47.82
at high risk for vitamin
B12 deficiency. Does that
00:10:47.85\00:10:52.40
make sense. Well sort
of but do we eat bacteria?
00:10:52.43\00:10:55.74
Because I thought you
said vitamin B12 is made from
00:10:55.77\00:10:58.29
bacteria. I've never
gone and ordered bacteria.
00:10:58.32\00:11:02.58
Bacteria, okay, now
that's a real interesting
00:11:02.61\00:11:04.28
question. Vitamin B12
is made by the bacteria in
00:11:04.31\00:11:09.15
your mouth, Don. Okay.
Some have said and I think
00:11:09.18\00:11:14.12
a bit jokingly because
I don't know if this has
00:11:14.15\00:11:15.86
been proved. If you
didn't brush your teeth so
00:11:15.89\00:11:18.77
often maybe you get a
little more Vitamin B12
00:11:18.80\00:11:21.40
from the bacteria in
your own mouth. Now don't
00:11:21.43\00:11:23.63
tell my dentist I said
that, okay. Alright. I won't
00:11:23.66\00:11:26.64
mention that.
Okay. And what's more the
00:11:26.67\00:11:29.40
bacteria in our colon
also makes the B12, but we
00:11:29.43\00:11:34.81
don't like to have
things from our colon get
00:11:34.84\00:11:36.87
anywhere near our mouth
we generally throw those
00:11:36.90\00:11:39.58
away for obvious
reasons. So the B12 that we get
00:11:39.61\00:11:44.48
generally will come
from either bacteria we've
00:11:44.51\00:11:49.23
ingested or an animal
that has made the B12 or
00:11:49.26\00:11:53.39
taken the B12 from the
bacteria and stored it in
00:11:53.42\00:11:56.15
their tissues. Okay so
they, animals need B12 too
00:11:56.18\00:12:00.54
and if we the eat the
animals, sure, we will get
00:12:00.57\00:12:02.92
the B12. For example a
cow has bacteria in it's
00:12:02.95\00:12:06.03
colon, which are making,
one of it's many stomachs
00:12:06.06\00:12:09.12
that are making
vitamin B12, which the cow will
00:12:09.15\00:12:11.74
absorb and then if the
cow is eaten and then we
00:12:11.77\00:12:14.37
get the B12. So that
has been the focus for the
00:12:14.40\00:12:19.78
nutritionist through
time and that's why they worry
00:12:19.81\00:12:21.69
about people who are, did
I say the word, vegetarian
00:12:21.72\00:12:26.18
getting B12 deficiency,
as a matter of fact there are
00:12:26.21\00:12:29.59
number of studies that
demonstrate that people
00:12:29.62\00:12:32.12
who eat a plant based
diet are more likely to have a
00:12:32.15\00:12:37.75
vitamin B12 deficiency.
They're at risk for that
00:12:37.78\00:12:41.15
So, at the Lifestyle
Center of America, I think you
00:12:41.18\00:12:42.89
use a plant based vitamin
B12, that's correct and so
00:12:42.92\00:12:45.62
you think about the
salad and probably lots of
00:12:45.65\00:12:47.22
people ask you
brought it everyday. Umm! Umm!
00:12:47.26\00:12:48.72
So do meat eaters then
you know if you're eating
00:12:48.75\00:12:53.37
meat, seems like you
probably never have a
00:12:53.40\00:12:56.84
deficiency, is that
right or wrong. The most of
00:12:56.87\00:13:00.27
the people that come
to Lifestyle Center of
00:13:00.30\00:13:01.66
America for help are
actually meat eaters. oh!
00:13:01.69\00:13:04.65
Is that right? Aha!
Aha! They have a lot of
00:13:04.68\00:13:06.03
problems. And it ends up
that they have got quite a
00:13:06.06\00:13:08.39
few problems with the
vitamin B12 deficiency.
00:13:08.42\00:13:11.94
So, even though
they're eating meat they have a
00:13:11.97\00:13:13.82
deficiency. That's correct.
In some studies looking at
00:13:13.85\00:13:17.41
free living people over
age 65, we're looking at
00:13:17.44\00:13:22.57
somewhere in realm of
15% of people actually
00:13:22.60\00:13:30.36
deficient in vitamin
B12. We're talking with Dr.
00:13:30.39\00:13:33.65
George Guthrie. We are
talking about vitamin B12
00:13:33.68\00:13:36.53
deficiency. Interestingly
enough, it's not just
00:13:36.56\00:13:39.58
something that effects
people that are eating a
00:13:39.61\00:13:41.10
plant based diet, but
now we are learning even meat
00:13:41.13\00:13:43.86
eaters, it can cause
some problems with your
00:13:43.89\00:13:46.23
blood, with your
neurological system, with
00:13:46.26\00:13:48.21
your homocysteine,
which is related to heart
00:13:48.24\00:13:50.62
attacks. When we
come back, we'll continue
00:13:50.65\00:13:52.07
talking about not only
the problems that can cause,
00:13:52.10\00:13:54.56
but what to do to
avoid them. Join us when we
00:13:54.59\00:13:56.85
come back.
00:13:56.88\00:13:57.85
Have you found
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00:13:59.38\00:14:00.80
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Welcome back we're
talking with Dr. George
00:14:59.66\00:15:01.38
Guthrie. If you just
joined us, I'm Don Mackintosh.
00:15:01.41\00:15:03.92
Thanks for watching
Health For A Lifetime.
00:15:03.95\00:15:05.76
We're talking about
Dr. George Guthrie, he is a
00:15:05.79\00:15:08.40
physician from the
Lifestyle Center of
00:15:08.43\00:15:10.54
America. He's been a
physician for over 25
00:15:10.57\00:15:13.07
years and seeing
patients of all types, probably
00:15:13.10\00:15:16.48
someone a lot like you
and we are glad that you
00:15:16.51\00:15:19.66
are with us today
doctor. Thank you Don
00:15:19.69\00:15:21.19
You know, I heard you
talking during the break
00:15:21.22\00:15:22.96
with somebody and
they were telling you some
00:15:22.99\00:15:24.41
different things and you
just, it's like you heard it
00:15:24.44\00:15:26.73
before because
you've talked to so many
00:15:26.76\00:15:28.58
different people and
there at the Lifestyle Center
00:15:28.61\00:15:31.53
you said that they do a
lot of lifestyle medicine,
00:15:31.56\00:15:35.02
which I guess is treating
things from a perspective
00:15:35.05\00:15:39.79
of what you do
day and day out. It
00:15:39.82\00:15:42.26
takes the responsibility
from the doctor and puts
00:15:42.29\00:15:46.44
it on the patient. If I
can educate the patient what
00:15:46.47\00:15:49.77
to do, doctor now is an
educator and the patient
00:15:49.80\00:15:53.37
can do their responsibility
they can avoid and even
00:15:53.40\00:15:56.34
reverse many of
their disease process.
00:15:56.37\00:15:58.55
I've visited your website
their Lifestyle Center of
00:15:58.58\00:16:01.20
America, you just put it
in any search engine and it
00:16:01.23\00:16:03.16
comes up number 1, 2 or
3, and you have a lot of
00:16:03.19\00:16:06.20
different programs
there and you also have some I
00:16:06.23\00:16:09.66
noticed on the website,
you have a lot of helpful
00:16:09.69\00:16:12.11
what would you say a
self diagnosis test people can
00:16:12.14\00:16:16.44
take. Whether or not
they need your program or not.
00:16:16.47\00:16:19.63
Yes, a little marketing
piece that looks like for
00:16:19.66\00:16:23.28
example diabetes,
could you use some help in
00:16:23.31\00:16:26.04
managing that,
managing that, lowering your
00:16:26.07\00:16:28.25
medication use. I
was buying a car the
00:16:28.28\00:16:30.86
other day, which I
don't do often for and I was
00:16:30.89\00:16:34.60
there and my salesman
was talking with me and
00:16:34.63\00:16:36.89
he told me some of
his health problems and I
00:16:36.92\00:16:38.48
said you really said
look in going to the Lifestyle
00:16:38.51\00:16:40.78
Center of America. He
said what is that, I said,
00:16:40.81\00:16:42.72
well let's pulled up, I
pulled it up, I was happy
00:16:42.75\00:16:45.29
to find I was trying to
figured out, it was a test
00:16:45.32\00:16:48.88
there, I gave him a
little test and everything and
00:16:48.91\00:16:50.76
told me and he says
I'm gonna call him up, oh!
00:16:50.79\00:16:53.00
Good, but I don't know if
he ever did. But it's very
00:16:53.03\00:16:54.39
accessible you know
wherever you are. Today
00:16:54.42\00:16:57.03
in particularly though
we are talking about the
00:16:57.06\00:16:59.10
Lifestyle Center
of America and it's
00:16:59.13\00:17:01.79
experienced that you've
also as a clinician with
00:17:01.82\00:17:04.21
vitamin B12 deficiency.
And I am giving myself a
00:17:04.24\00:17:08.18
test and you tell me if
I'm right or wrong. Vitamin
00:17:08.21\00:17:10.42
B12 is a vitamin. Yes.
The body doesn't make it
00:17:14.47\00:17:15.44
but little tiny,
tiny, bacteria make it.
00:17:15.45\00:17:16.68
Yes. If you don't brush
your teeth you have more
00:17:16.71\00:17:19.45
Oh! You weren't
supposed to quote me on
00:17:19.48\00:17:21.43
that one, Don.
So, it's made by the
00:17:21.46\00:17:23.84
bacteria in your
mouth or in your colon. Umm!
00:17:23.87\00:17:28.05
Umm! And most of time
people think they should
00:17:28.08\00:17:30.39
get it from eating meat
products because it's in
00:17:30.42\00:17:32.51
the tissues of the
meat. The absorption vitamin
00:17:32.54\00:17:35.25
B12 is really
rather complicated. Okay.
00:17:35.28\00:17:38.06
It's almost fun. I
would like to think of it in
00:17:38.09\00:17:40.10
football terms. Okay.
Vitamin B12 enters the
00:17:40.13\00:17:43.41
mouth, correct. There is
an R factor in the saliva
00:17:43.44\00:17:47.70
that grabs on to it. Now,
R factor, what's that mean
00:17:47.73\00:17:50.73
like raunchy, it's a
protein, okay protein, and
00:17:50.76\00:17:53.91
the scientist simply call
it, physiologists call it R
00:17:53.94\00:17:56.12
factor, R factor, it's
suppose to grab on to the
00:17:56.15\00:17:59.51
vitamin B12.
Because it likes it, needs
00:17:59.54\00:18:02.28
it. Because it needs
it. Now in order for that to
00:18:02.31\00:18:04.36
happen the teeth
kind of have to break up
00:18:04.39\00:18:06.77
whatever it's in, right
and if it's in for example
00:18:06.80\00:18:09.60
meat. A turkey. You got
to chew a turkey, you got
00:18:09.63\00:18:12.37
to chew it up hard and
then as B12 comes loose
00:18:12.40\00:18:15.55
from the meat, the R
factor will grab it, it takes
00:18:15.58\00:18:18.31
through the stomach, now
there is lot of acid in the
00:18:18.34\00:18:20.63
stomach. That will
protect it from the acid.
00:18:20.66\00:18:22.51
And the vitamin B12
might be damaged by the
00:18:22.54\00:18:24.21
acid, so the R
factor is protecting it
00:18:24.24\00:18:26.32
Cradle like a little baby.
That's right. Kind of like.
00:18:26.35\00:18:29.74
Once it gets through the
stomach, there is a lateral
00:18:29.77\00:18:34.51
that takes place, you
see in the stomach there is
00:18:34.54\00:18:36.43
something called intrinsic
factor that's made. Okay.
00:18:36.46\00:18:39.26
By the lining of the
stomach and the R factor
00:18:39.29\00:18:41.46
hands the B12 over to
the intrinsic factor and
00:18:41.49\00:18:44.86
intrinsic factor
carries B12 down to the end zone
00:18:44.89\00:18:48.62
that is the end of the
small intestine, I see, and
00:18:48.65\00:18:51.41
it is absorbed right
there at the end. So you see the
00:18:51.44\00:18:55.22
absorption of vitamin
B12 could have problems
00:18:55.25\00:18:58.45
at a lot of different levels,
just like a football player
00:18:58.48\00:19:01.58
can get sacked beyond the
goal line. Alright. That's
00:19:01.61\00:19:03.82
right. Okay. But
it could be that there
00:19:03.85\00:19:05.33
is a problem chewing, it
could be that the saliva,
00:19:05.36\00:19:08.21
there is not as much
saliva, as may be there
00:19:08.24\00:19:11.05
used to be as we get older
there is less saliva, there
00:19:11.08\00:19:14.60
is a lot of medications
that people take that
00:19:14.63\00:19:16.65
actually dry up the
saliva. What if someone was
00:19:16.68\00:19:20.76
losing some teeth and
had a hard time chewing. You
00:19:20.79\00:19:23.30
see the B12 may not be
available for binding to
00:19:23.33\00:19:26.40
the R factor, the R
factor might not be there. Then
00:19:26.43\00:19:29.15
it runs to the stomach
and we have this intrinsic
00:19:29.18\00:19:31.83
factor, which is to be
made by the lining cells
00:19:31.86\00:19:34.02
of the stomach, that
could go. Well, no we take
00:19:34.05\00:19:37.34
medications to decrease
the acids in our stomach,
00:19:37.37\00:19:39.75
yeah, some of us more
than others, some more
00:19:39.78\00:19:41.71
than others, but they
may very well be a problem
00:19:41.74\00:19:44.69
with intrinsic
factor. Umm! Umm! And then of
00:19:44.72\00:19:46.85
course relatively
rarely are people who have had
00:19:46.88\00:19:49.68
pieces of their
small intestine removed
00:19:49.71\00:19:51.55
especially the distal
end for like Crohn's disease
00:19:51.58\00:19:54.24
with those types or may
be radiation treatments.
00:19:54.27\00:19:57.45
Oh! Radiation
treatment. So, there is poor
00:19:57.48\00:19:58.77
absorption at the end.
So, there's a variety of
00:19:58.80\00:20:01.66
things that can get in
the way. Hence leaving quite
00:20:01.69\00:20:04.71
a few people at
risk especially as we get
00:20:04.74\00:20:06.70
older. Now you were
talking to me something
00:20:06.73\00:20:08.18
about Hindus and
vitamin B12. Oh! Yeah, that's
00:20:08.21\00:20:11.15
really interesting. You
may remember the Hindus by
00:20:11.18\00:20:14.11
their, I guess religious
belief we could say, have
00:20:14.14\00:20:17.86
no animal products,
they are 100%, they are the
00:20:17.89\00:20:20.87
ones who say holy
cow and they mean it.
00:20:20.90\00:20:22.82
I guess they do. I
guess they do. Alright. When
00:20:22.85\00:20:26.60
they live in India,
there is no vitamin B12
00:20:26.63\00:20:30.75
deficiency at all. No,
there is none there. They
00:20:30.78\00:20:34.10
are not having it, okay,
but at the same time when
00:20:34.13\00:20:36.21
they move to England
they get B12 deficiency.
00:20:36.24\00:20:40.05
They must not be bathing
in the Ganges river, there
00:20:40.08\00:20:42.34
is a lot of bacteria there.
Well, that seems to be the
00:20:42.37\00:20:44.76
difference. Is that the
difference? There is a lot
00:20:44.79\00:20:46.74
of cleanliness, you
know, the food that has been
00:20:46.77\00:20:49.44
very carefully processed
in the grocery store in
00:20:49.47\00:20:52.36
western world, where as
back in native India they
00:20:52.39\00:20:55.50
would grow on their
own, there was the bacteria
00:20:55.53\00:20:58.30
from the soil were
putting enough B12. If you go
00:20:58.33\00:21:02.22
out to the garden,
your garden, yeah, pull your
00:21:02.25\00:21:04.78
carrot, wipe it off and
bite it, there's gonna be some
00:21:04.81\00:21:07.67
bacteria on it that
will provide B12 for you.
00:21:07.70\00:21:10.21
Okay, so the
lesson here is, be dirty.
00:21:10.24\00:21:12.88
Maybe that's another
one of those reasons why
00:21:12.91\00:21:16.50
older folks tend to
have B12 deficiency and the
00:21:16.53\00:21:18.93
younger folks you know
the kids they tend to put
00:21:18.96\00:21:21.52
all kinds of things in
their mouths. So, there is a
00:21:21.55\00:21:24.15
little bit from the
earth and different things so
00:21:24.18\00:21:26.55
much that we once if
you want B12 eat dirt.
00:21:26.58\00:21:28.48
Yeah! I suppose, but
that's not something that I
00:21:28.51\00:21:31.27
stomach very well
on. And what's your
00:21:31.30\00:21:33.15
experience been you
see a lot of patients, you
00:21:33.18\00:21:35.54
practice yourself, you
taught at the school of
00:21:35.57\00:21:37.67
health. What's been
your experience with the
00:21:37.70\00:21:39.67
vitamin B12 deficiency.
Well after I taught at the
00:21:39.70\00:21:44.43
school of public
health, and while I was there,
00:21:44.46\00:21:46.69
there was a study
going on on vitamin B12
00:21:46.72\00:21:49.28
deficiency. I wasn't part
of that study, I wasn't part
00:21:49.31\00:21:52.24
of that team, but I
was listening and so I was
00:21:52.27\00:21:55.15
interested in this. I
went from there and spent
00:21:55.18\00:21:58.25
almost 7 years in the
Mountains of the Sierra in
00:21:58.28\00:22:02.10
a small practice
and I was looking for.
00:22:02.13\00:22:04.65
Oh! We feel really bad
for you having to be up
00:22:04.68\00:22:06.61
there in the mountains
like that. Yeah! It was
00:22:06.64\00:22:08.52
hard.So, you were
looking for. But I was looking
00:22:08.55\00:22:10.80
for because I had
been sensitized to it, any
00:22:10.83\00:22:13.22
symptoms that might
look like vitamin B12
00:22:13.25\00:22:16.19
deficiency. And over,
you know, the six and a half,
00:22:16.22\00:22:19.81
seven years, I ended
up diagnosing 40 different
00:22:19.84\00:22:23.37
people with vitamin
B12 deficiency. In seven
00:22:23.40\00:22:25.90
years, in seven years,
quite a bit. Now, this isn't
00:22:25.93\00:22:28.99
no way a scientific
study you understand this is
00:22:29.02\00:22:31.87
simply my own experience.
I was atoned to look and
00:22:31.90\00:22:35.09
anytime it came to mind,
I said well let's get a B12
00:22:35.12\00:22:37.86
level. And so I
checked vitamin B12 levels in a
00:22:37.89\00:22:41.22
lot of people, 40 of
them diagnosed as deficient,
00:22:41.25\00:22:45.76
only one of those
claimed to eat only a 100% plant
00:22:45.79\00:22:50.40
based diet. So, most
of them like you said meat
00:22:50.43\00:22:54.37
eaters can have
these problems too, right,
00:22:54.40\00:22:56.00
most of them with your
experience were. I think
00:22:56.03\00:22:58.06
you have some
graphics on this to show.
00:22:58.09\00:22:59.22
Well, let me explain
a little bit about those
00:22:59.25\00:23:00.45
before we flip them on.
What I did was to try to
00:23:00.48\00:23:03.70
find out something
about these patients and learn
00:23:03.73\00:23:07.01
something. I went
through and tried to find
00:23:07.04\00:23:09.24
their presenting
symptom. Now when a doctor says
00:23:09.27\00:23:11.52
presenting symptom,
what you're talking about
00:23:11.55\00:23:13.53
are the symptoms that
they're complaining about
00:23:13.56\00:23:15.32
when they come in and
others things that I may
00:23:15.35\00:23:17.79
have discovered,
complaints that they had
00:23:17.82\00:23:19.32
when they came into
the visit that I made the
00:23:19.35\00:23:21.60
diagnosis, they got
the blood test, you know,
00:23:21.63\00:23:23.82
obviously this is
reflecting my ideas
00:23:23.85\00:23:25.49
because I was atoned to
it. Right. But as I went
00:23:25.52\00:23:27.84
back and looked at
those that I actually found
00:23:27.87\00:23:29.81
positive. I found a
very interesting kind of
00:23:29.84\00:23:33.85
pattern, if we might
say, in my training as I
00:23:33.88\00:23:37.82
pointed out, I looked for
anemia, large cell anemia,
00:23:37.85\00:23:44.42
that was the
most common cause or
00:23:44.45\00:23:46.44
diagnosis tool that I
was taught. Well I found a
00:23:46.47\00:23:50.78
different diagnostic
pattern. Let's show that
00:23:50.81\00:23:53.88
graphic, what it looks
like. You can see that I
00:23:53.91\00:23:58.51
divided the group up
into four, we call them
00:23:58.54\00:24:00.90
quartiles. I took all
40 of them and divided up
00:24:00.93\00:24:03.38
according to their level
of vitamin B12 deficiency.
00:24:03.41\00:24:06.69
The lowest would be
the lowest quartile and the
00:24:06.72\00:24:10.47
highest of course
would be the highest and it
00:24:10.50\00:24:13.18
would be just below
normal. So, we look at
00:24:13.21\00:24:17.06
those symptoms and
you see the top one 90% of
00:24:17.09\00:24:20.46
them had neurological
symptom and it correlated
00:24:20.49\00:24:25.93
1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th
quartiles, those first two.
00:24:25.96\00:24:29.43
The ones that had
the lowest vitamin B12,
00:24:29.46\00:24:31.80
always has been,
seemed to have the highest
00:24:31.83\00:24:34.60
number of amount of
low B12. Then I divided the
00:24:34.63\00:24:39.00
neurological up into
mental and neuropathy
00:24:39.03\00:24:43.68
type. Now mental is of
anxiety, nervousness. I
00:24:43.71\00:24:47.16
think the next slide
will show something about
00:24:47.19\00:24:48.44
that and then neuropathy
is shooting pains, you
00:24:48.47\00:24:52.02
know, things that
you feel, back pain those
00:24:52.05\00:24:53.78
types of things and
so 30% of those had that
00:24:53.81\00:24:57.26
those particular
symptoms.And then And then 59%
00:24:57.29\00:25:00.03
you said the mental
ones. Yes and recognize that
00:25:00.06\00:25:03.15
you put the two
together and it makes the
00:25:03.18\00:25:04.83
neurological, all, both
of the bottom groups were
00:25:04.86\00:25:07.56
included in the top one.
I just broke those apart.
00:25:07.59\00:25:10.32
Okay so, that there is,
you saw a real relationship
00:25:10.35\00:25:13.45
between this, yeah.
And as I reviewed those,
00:25:13.48\00:25:15.76
just as of interest, it's
not a scientific study that's
00:25:15.79\00:25:19.75
publishable, but it was
interesting to me and it
00:25:19.78\00:25:21.96
might be interesting
to our viewers as well. I
00:25:21.99\00:25:24.97
think the next graphic
tells us, shows us some of
00:25:25.00\00:25:27.54
these symptoms with the
neurological you had the
00:25:27.57\00:25:31.56
food drop, sciatica that
is back pain, hypesthesia,
00:25:31.59\00:25:35.57
which means, it's not
quite spelled right there,
00:25:35.60\00:25:37.59
but hypesthesia means
that the skin is extra
00:25:37.62\00:25:40.20
sensitive to touch, it
hurts to touch it very lightly,
00:25:40.23\00:25:43.32
dizziness, fainting,
muscle weakness, poor
00:25:43.35\00:25:45.70
coordination. Okay.
And so several different
00:25:45.73\00:25:49.85
symptoms that actually
came presenting. I even
00:25:49.88\00:25:51.79
had a neighbor come in,
since I was practicing in
00:25:51.82\00:25:54.51
the mountains. One
of my patients, one my
00:25:54.54\00:25:57.14
neighbors came in, her
family brought her in and
00:25:57.17\00:25:59.86
they said mom is not
acting right. You know, I
00:25:59.89\00:26:02.75
wonder if she has got
Alzheimer's. So, we did
00:26:02.78\00:26:04.97
these whole workup
including vitamin B12
00:26:05.00\00:26:07.08
and the laboratory
says we can't measure it.
00:26:07.11\00:26:09.47
Can't measure it.
Can't measure it, it's not
00:26:09.50\00:26:11.65
there.Or it was so low
they couldn't measure it,
00:26:11.68\00:26:14.08
so we of course
replaced that vigorously.
00:26:14.11\00:26:17.32
So, we've got about a
minute and a half left what
00:26:17.35\00:26:19.29
should we do to avoid
vitamin B12 deficiency.
00:26:19.32\00:26:21.93
Well, I think probably
the first thing is to be aware
00:26:21.96\00:26:25.55
that vitamin B12
deficiency happens.
00:26:25.58\00:26:27.60
Okay, number one.
Especially you're at risk if
00:26:27.63\00:26:31.01
you are eating a
100% plant based diet.
00:26:31.04\00:26:33.77
Get some dirt
there. Okay, grow your own.
00:26:33.80\00:26:36.82
Alright, okay.
Don't clean it quite so
00:26:36.85\00:26:38.61
well. Alright. There is
even some evidence that a
00:26:38.64\00:26:42.57
group of Seventh-Day
Adventist ministers in
00:26:42.60\00:26:46.13
Australia, who had
more a lacto-ovo-vegetarian
00:26:46.16\00:26:49.20
diet, and had more
vitamin B12 deficiency.
00:26:49.23\00:26:52.48
So, even people on
the lacto-ovo can have
00:26:52.51\00:26:54.91
problems. May have
problems. But if you
00:26:54.94\00:26:57.03
are a meat eater
and you are on lot of
00:26:57.06\00:26:58.88
medications and your
health isn't well that
00:26:58.91\00:27:00.74
might be worth
while having it checked. A
00:27:00.77\00:27:03.71
screening test, it's not
that expensive and having
00:27:03.74\00:27:07.38
that level checked may
very well be able to save
00:27:07.41\00:27:09.92
you problems. So,
it's spelled out in some
00:27:09.95\00:27:13.01
cereals like total
and other things, they
00:27:13.04\00:27:15.00
actually have it
spelled out and you can make
00:27:15.03\00:27:17.18
sure there is also some
milk substitutes that have
00:27:17.21\00:27:19.36
it in it, so that you
can make sure and always get
00:27:19.39\00:27:22.04
enough. Sure and you
can observe it as a matter
00:27:22.07\00:27:24.21
of fact that little
vitamin spray they spray on
00:27:24.24\00:27:26.42
those cereals, you know, so many
00:27:26.45\00:27:28.55
essentials vitamins
added, the B12 in those are
00:27:28.58\00:27:31.26
really very well
absorbed. Well thank you Dr.
00:27:31.29\00:27:34.29
Guthrie for being with
us today. Thank you for
00:27:34.32\00:27:36.71
dedicating your life to
this kind of thing. That
00:27:36.74\00:27:39.14
means a lot to us. And
thank you also for joining
00:27:39.17\00:27:41.08
us on Health For A
Lifetime. You've heard
00:27:41.11\00:27:42.99
about vitamin B12
deficiency, it can cause
00:27:43.02\00:27:46.21
real problems, so take it
seriously if you're having
00:27:46.24\00:27:48.87
some of those symptoms
that the doctor mentioned
00:27:48.90\00:27:50.91
get it checked out and
you've learned also what
00:27:50.94\00:27:53.22
you can do to avoid
it. Thanks for watching
00:27:53.25\00:27:55.14
Health For A Lifetime
and may God bless you.
00:27:55.17\00:27:57.12