Hello, I'm Don Mackintosh,
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and this is
HEALTH FOR A LIFETIME
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We're glad
you've joined us today.
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Today we're going to
be talking about research.
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Wait a minute -
research is a good thing!
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It's not something
that makes us go to sleep.
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It's something that might
document why we go to sleep,
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but it's something that
today I think will wake you up
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because it's good news research,
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and joining us
to talk about this
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research is a researcher
from from Loma Linda University,
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Dr. John Kelly.
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He has been a physician since
2000 and actually he went to
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school a little bit later
in life, didn't you Dr. Kelly?
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Yes, Don, I started school
at Loma Linda when I was 48
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48! People out there
are probably gasping!
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Was that planned?
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Well, you certainly don't go
to medical school by accident!
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It was planned!
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No, actually I wanted to
go to medical school. I first
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thought about it when I was
28 but I was told I was too old
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because I had dropped out
of college and I needed to go
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back and do four
years of college,
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and I was told you know when
you're over 30 it's hard to get
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through medical school.
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So I spent 20 years doing and
believing that and doing health
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education and getting
acquainted with some of
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God's health principles,
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and then in '96 I guess
God decided time to send me to
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medical school.
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You went through medical
school and not only that you
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came out with a MPH in
epidemiology and research,
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and you got to be involved
in primary research right away.
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Yes, that's true,
I'm very fortunate,
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but I also have a very
specific objective in mind.
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I didn't get distracted in
medical school with lots of,
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there's so many interesting
specialties and things that you
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learn, but I knew I wanted
to do lifestyle medicine and
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it fairly quickly was obvious
that lifestyle research was
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something for me.
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Actually, I started my
first research during my last
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year of residency.
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In fact one of the studies
we're going to talk about today,
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I collected the data during
my last year of residency.
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Is that right? So you knew
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exactly why you were there,
what you were doing, and the
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Lord had given you just a
real, laser beam like focus.
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Yes, I knew from the
very first day of medical
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school I wanted to
do lifestyle medicine.
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You know this is a
great time to be talking about
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lifestyle medicine.
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Just recently there was a
National Geographic article
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that we have a graphic showing
that looked at Adventists
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and here it is, you
brought it with you:
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That National Geographic article
is directly an outgrowth of
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the research that has been
done showing the benefits to the
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lifestyle principles that
we have as a people and as
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a church.
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So it was over the last
20- 30 years that, is this
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right or wrong, that
the Adventist Health Study 1
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was being conducted?
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Yes.
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And it was because of that
research that that article like
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National Geographic and
then many other news networks
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all over the place
were picking up on this.
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It's because of that research
that these articles are able to
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be published.
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That is correct.
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There's a number of studies
that... the medical literature
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is literally replete now with
results from Adventist Study.
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We've got the Adventist Health
Study 2 is even larger, bigger
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study that Dr. Gary
Frasier is working the lead,
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principle investigator.
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The Lifestyle Research and
Adventists is just growing and
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mushrooming.
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You mentioned Dr. Frasier and I
think he also recently published
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a book a couple years ago from
Oxford University Press that has
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a listing of all the different
scientific studies that have
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been done on
Seventh-day Adventists.
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How many is there about?
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I don't know just how many.
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I know this, I know of
personally of seven or eight
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that have been done,
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but many of those
early ones were quite small.
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Research is like anything
else, it starts off and grows
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slowly in magnitude
and so some of those early
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studies that we did with
the American Cancer Society
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as one of our control groups
that we compared Adventists
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to and so forth
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The Adventist Mortality Study
and others were quite small.
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Now were doing a
study of 125 thousand
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Seventh-day Adventists.
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That's huge!
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So you're involved
in what you call the
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Adventist Lifestyle
Intervention Research Project.
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That's correct.
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I don't actually work directly
with Dr. Frasier and the team
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on the Adventist Health Study.
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I appreciate its work and
I value it greatly but I'm
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actually trying to build, am
building on that research, doing
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intervention research to
test some of the hypotheses.
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You know we found out for
example that those folk who
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ate more nuts per week had a
reduced risk of heart disease.
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So that could lead to a question
"Would it be that you could
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improve your heart disease
risk if you were to eat nuts?"
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Now that may seem like an
obvious thing but in research
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those are two
different questions.
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One was an observation
that people who ate more nuts
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had less risk of heart disease.
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That does not prove that if
a person with high risk started
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eating nuts it would
reduce their risk, but
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Dr. Sabetae has done studies
that show that was the case.
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So now what we're saying,
"Let's test many of these other
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principles. "
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And is a natural place to
study those is at the Adventist
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lifestyle centers that are
using these very principles
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to treat disease.
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So what are some
of those principles?
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Let's talk about where
they are, what they're called
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and let's just go through that.
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Well, let me just do
it by talking about the
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data that we collected.
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I mentioned when I was
in my last year of residency
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collecting some data at
various lifestyle centers.
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Let me just mention the Battle
Creek Lifestyle Health Center,
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the Lifestyle Center of
America, that's in Oklahoma,
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Uchee Pines Institute and
Wellness Center, that's in
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Alabama, Weimar
Institute in California, and
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Wildwood Hospital and
Lifestyle Center in Georgia.
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Any of these names if
you put in your search engine
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on your web it
will come right up.
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Yes, they all have web sites.
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I think actually the Battle
Creek Lifestyle Health Center
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that one has closed down.
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All the others are
there and functioning.
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I collected data on
patients from 30 or more at each
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one of those centers, so
it was a multi-center study.
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It's technically what we call
a retrospectively collected data
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but it was perspective data.
In other words, at the time
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they were collecting the
measures on these patients,
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they did not know they were
going to be in a study, and I
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came along later
collected what had happened.
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The type of intervention,
you asked... what did they do.
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What we found was
that there are differences
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between these five
centers, but the differences
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were relatively
minor... negligibly small.
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There were minor differences
overall and we were able to
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pool all the subjects.
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So we had 183 subjects
that we could put in our study.
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That were largely, you
say, pooling, they were largely
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being treated the same
way, just minor differences.
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Right.
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And the reason they were
being treated the same was why?
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They were all receiving
the same kind of intervention.
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Let me just read here what the
a typical intervention would be
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at these centers.
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They all received a plant based,
high fiber, low fat, cholesterol
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free, calorie restricted diet.
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In fact some of the centers
used fasting, especially with
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diabetics or some
other obesity patients.
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Do they all exercise?
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They all do, that's everyone.
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They all received
regular graded exercise
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and strength building exercise.
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They also all used health
education classes - cognitive
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training.
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Educate, educate, educate.
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And typically that would include
knowledge about the physiology
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of their illness, about
the connection between their
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lifestyle and their disease,
knowledge about nutrition
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and the effect of nutrition,
and cooking classes, etcetera,
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stress management.
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They also then, I found they
have very similar intervention.
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They were drinking
water, and at each center
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the patients were not
only encouraged to drink
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water... in many of the centers
they actually had a simple way
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unobtrusively of counting
the amount of water, glasses of
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water, and giving them
containers with the amount
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of water they were
supposed to drink for the day.
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They had spiritual
exercises which were voluntary.
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All of them were voluntary?
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Yes.
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They would have hydrotherapy
treatments - hot and cold for
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their limbs, for example.
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I learned something wonderful,
I had never seen in a clinical
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setting before, and
that was getting rid of
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diabetic neuropathy pain by the
use of hot and cold contrast to
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the lower limbs, and
it was highly effective.
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They had massage,
and the physician visits
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on a regular basis,
medications were adjusted,
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to be reduced as the lifestyle
therapies exerted their effect,
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and some of them used
supplements. That was the one
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area that varied
the most was supplements
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or herbs, you know
this kind of thing.
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But everything else was
really minor, so you could pool
00:11:05.48\00:11:09.70
these all together and have
a much larger study then any
00:11:09.73\00:11:13.01
one could do on their own.
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That's correct.
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It gave us a lot more
power to find out what the
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real effect was.
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So what did you find?
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You're going to talk about that
a little bit more in the second
00:11:20.80\00:11:23.04
half but start on it now.
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What did you find?
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Well we found in a nutshell
was that the... we did a case
00:11:25.16\00:11:30.96
control analysis where we
were looking at diabetics.
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As you know, diabetes is
a epidemic and growing world
00:11:34.95\00:11:38.82
wide, unfortunately, and the
question was, would lifestyle
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be as effective in a diabetic
or is it less effective?
00:11:43.39\00:11:47.85
Because, after all, they're
having problems with lifestyle,
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and this is a
reasonable question. We compared
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the reduction of
cardiac risk in patients that
00:11:54.15\00:11:59.28
were diabetic to
concurrent controls that did not
00:11:59.31\00:12:02.85
have diabetes.
00:12:02.88\00:12:03.85
So these were non-diabetic
concurrent controls, meaning
00:12:03.86\00:12:07.17
the controls got the
exact same treatment that the
00:12:07.20\00:12:09.51
diabetic cases did, and we
00:12:09.54\00:12:11.77
compared them, these two
groups, and found that the
00:12:11.80\00:12:16.53
diabetics had as good or better
outcomes, risk reduction, from
00:12:16.56\00:12:22.54
lifestyle intervention as
the non-diabetic controls did.
00:12:22.57\00:12:26.65
In other words, it works!
00:12:26.68\00:12:28.54
It works and it works
maybe even better in diabetics.
00:12:28.57\00:12:31.58
Is that right?
00:12:31.61\00:12:33.10
So this has been published?
00:12:33.13\00:12:36.03
This will be published,
it has not yet been published
00:12:36.06\00:12:38.17
The manuscript I hope to
have submitted here shortly.
00:12:38.20\00:12:41.47
And that will be in
what they call a peer review?
00:12:41.50\00:12:44.71
Peer review, yes, one of
major diabetes journals, yes.
00:12:44.75\00:12:48.80
And then if that happens, which
we hope it does, that just gives
00:12:48.83\00:12:54.04
more credibility to some very
good things that are happening
00:12:54.07\00:12:57.07
in lifestyle
centers around the nation.
00:12:57.10\00:12:59.63
Yes, especially I'm looking, of
course, at Adventist lifestyle
00:12:59.66\00:13:03.61
centers, but we have compared
some of the results that we
00:13:03.64\00:13:09.63
find in the Adventist lifestyle
centers to published outcomes
00:13:09.66\00:13:13.62
from other studies like
the DASH Diet, which has been
00:13:13.65\00:13:17.10
recognized for lowering blood
pressure, and the portfolio diet
00:13:17.13\00:13:22.43
been shown to reduce cholesterol
and we made some comparison
00:13:22.46\00:13:27.67
to those, which I will
talk about if we have time.
00:13:27.70\00:13:31.64
All right.
00:13:31.67\00:13:32.64
We're talking
with Dr. John Kelly.
00:13:32.65\00:13:35.26
He's a researcher
from Loma Linda University
00:13:35.29\00:13:37.52
and he's looking at the
lifestyle centers around the
00:13:37.55\00:13:40.62
country that
largely are operated by
00:13:40.65\00:13:43.11
Seventh-day Adventists.
00:13:43.14\00:13:44.23
In this particular
study all of them where, and
00:13:44.26\00:13:46.80
those studies are found in
Oklahoma - the Lifestyle Center
00:13:46.83\00:13:49.97
of America, or Weimar
in Northern California, or
00:13:50.00\00:13:53.26
Uchee Pines in
Alabama, Wildwood in Georgia and
00:13:53.29\00:13:57.04
there may be others as well.
00:13:57.07\00:13:59.94
We encourage you to get
in touch with these places.
00:13:59.97\00:14:02.89
They really are helping people.
00:14:02.92\00:14:04.09
Dr. Kelly is doing the research
that documents what really is
00:14:04.12\00:14:08.20
happening.
00:14:08.23\00:14:09.20
When we come back
we'll look more closely
00:14:09.21\00:14:11.29
at what he's been finding.
00:14:11.32\00:14:12.77
We hope that you can join us.
00:14:12.80\00:14:14.83
Have you found
yourself wishing that you could
00:14:16.34\00:14:17.93
shed a few pounds?
00:14:17.96\00:14:19.01
Have you been on a
diet for most of your life?
00:14:19.04\00:14:21.65
But not found anything that
will really keep the weight off?
00:14:21.68\00:14:24.40
If you've answered yes to
any of these questions, then we
00:14:24.43\00:14:28.08
have a solution
for you that works.
00:14:28.11\00:14:30.18
Dr. Hans Diehl and
Dr. Aileen Ludington
00:14:30.21\00:14:33.23
have written a
marvelous booklet called,
00:14:33.26\00:14:35.25
Reversing Obesity Naturally,
and we'd like to send it to you
00:14:35.28\00:14:38.91
free of charge.
00:14:38.94\00:14:40.26
Here's a medically sound
approach successfully used
00:14:40.29\00:14:43.06
by thousands who
are able to eat more
00:14:43.09\00:14:45.29
and loose weight
permanently without
00:14:45.32\00:14:46.90
feeling guilty or hungry
through lifestyle medicine.
00:14:46.93\00:14:50.69
Dr. Diehl and Dr. Ludington
have been featured on 3ABN,
00:14:50.72\00:14:54.18
and in this booklet they present
a sensible approach to eating,
00:14:54.21\00:14:57.58
eating, nutrition, and lifestyle
changes that can help you
00:14:57.61\00:15:01.02
prevent heart disease,
diabetes, and even cancer.
00:15:01.05\00:15:03.62
Call or write
today for your free copy:
00:15:03.65\00:15:05.97
Welcome back.
00:15:16.45\00:15:17.42
We're talking
with Dr. John Kelly.
00:15:17.43\00:15:18.89
We're talking about research
as it relates to lifestyle and
00:15:18.92\00:15:22.43
avoiding
America's killer diseases.
00:15:22.46\00:15:24.87
And Dr. Kelly we're just
glad that you can join us today.
00:15:24.90\00:15:27.47
Thank you, Don, it's good to
be here talking about research.
00:15:27.50\00:15:31.23
What you've discovered is that
the things that we're learning
00:15:31.26\00:15:35.93
in the Adventist Health
Study, which now have taken a
00:15:35.96\00:15:38.76
national theater, the National
Institute of Health are giving
00:15:38.79\00:15:42.16
a lot of money to study that,
12 million dollars I believe,
00:15:42.19\00:15:45.17
this last study, what
you're finding is those same
00:15:45.20\00:15:49.16
principles, the same things
they've learned, really are
00:15:49.19\00:15:52.81
things that need to
studied on a intervention level.
00:15:52.84\00:15:56.36
In other words, does it work
in these lifestyle centers that
00:15:56.39\00:16:01.02
you've mentioned.
00:16:01.05\00:16:02.21
You've found some preliminary
results that are very
00:16:02.24\00:16:04.98
encouraging.
00:16:05.01\00:16:05.98
Yes, yes, we were just
talking about how we compared
00:16:05.99\00:16:09.43
the effect in folks that have
diabetes to concurrent controls,
00:16:09.46\00:16:16.78
meaning people who were there
at the same time but did not
00:16:16.81\00:16:19.45
have diabetes, and found that
the benefits were as great or
00:16:19.48\00:16:23.85
greater in the
diabetics as the non-diabetics,
00:16:23.88\00:16:27.21
but what I want to talk about
next is how we have compared
00:16:27.24\00:16:31.97
the outcomes from the
centers to published results
00:16:32.00\00:16:36.11
in other studies.
00:16:36.14\00:16:37.13
You may be aware that
Dean Ornish has done some
00:16:37.16\00:16:41.08
landmark studies...
00:16:41.11\00:16:42.59
He's that famous, Harvard
trained cardiologist, now living
00:16:42.62\00:16:46.58
I think in California somewhere?
00:16:46.61\00:16:47.81
Yes, I understand he's one of
President Clinton's physicians
00:16:47.84\00:16:52.51
and friend.
00:16:52.54\00:16:53.51
So he's a well
known researcher. He's
00:16:53.52\00:16:55.66
done some of the pioneering
work looking at the effect of
00:16:55.69\00:17:01.35
diet on heart disease
and especially regression of
00:17:01.38\00:17:07.28
coronary artery blockages.
00:17:07.31\00:17:09.27
The lifestyle heart
trial was first published,
00:17:09.30\00:17:13.21
one year results, was
published in Lancet in 1990.
00:17:13.24\00:17:17.15
Which is a very
reputable magazine.
00:17:17.18\00:17:19.73
This is probably one
of the best in the world.
00:17:19.76\00:17:22.32
What he found was that in this
study they compared a low fat
00:17:22.35\00:17:30.02
diet with stress
reduction techniques, meditation
00:17:30.05\00:17:33.60
techniques that were
used, to the recommended at the
00:17:33.63\00:17:38.71
time the standard of care for
dietary recommendations for a
00:17:38.75\00:17:42.87
person who had heart disease.
00:17:42.91\00:17:44.49
So in other
words, American Heart...
00:17:44.52\00:17:46.97
Yes, the step
one, step two diet, and
00:17:47.00\00:17:49.87
what he found that one
year was that there was
00:17:49.90\00:17:56.05
about.4 risk.
00:17:56.08\00:17:59.91
In other words there was
a tremendous risk reduction
00:17:59.94\00:18:01.87
less than half the risk of
events, heart attack or other
00:18:01.90\00:18:08.11
angina chest pain in
the treatment group compared
00:18:08.14\00:18:11.21
to the controls that
were getting standard care.
00:18:11.25\00:18:14.29
But probably the most amazing
thing was when they looked at
00:18:14.32\00:18:18.25
the blockages, you know we can
do an angiogram, we can do an
00:18:18.28\00:18:22.07
image of the heart vessels
and we can see if its narrowed,
00:18:22.10\00:18:26.11
we can see what's called
the lumen, the opening of where
00:18:26.14\00:18:28.71
the blood flows, and see the
blockage, and this is what most
00:18:28.74\00:18:32.08
people that have ever had a
stint they've got one of these
00:18:32.11\00:18:34.26
done and it showed this
real narrow spot and the doctor
00:18:34.29\00:18:37.90
put a little tube,
little piece of metal in there.
00:18:37.93\00:18:39.55
Ok, well they did these studies
before and after and found that
00:18:39.58\00:18:45.51
even though the radiologist
were blinded, they did not
00:18:45.54\00:18:47.97
know who was who, they found
that there was a significant
00:18:48.00\00:18:52.65
difference in this that on
the control group blockages were
00:18:52.68\00:18:56.94
actually
continuing to get worse.
00:18:56.97\00:18:58.87
Their disease was
continuing to progress.
00:18:58.90\00:19:01.89
And these were the ones on
normal medication and normal
00:19:01.92\00:19:04.60
American Heart Diet?
00:19:04.63\00:19:06.59
Yes, 30% of calories
from fat or less and so forth.
00:19:06.62\00:19:10.48
The treatment group which was
on a low fat diet or 10% less
00:19:10.51\00:19:14.55
of calories from fat, which
is quite low, and exercise, and
00:19:14.58\00:19:19.19
meditation, and stress
reduction, group support, etc.
00:19:19.22\00:19:22.61
This group had actual reversal,
the blockages were going away.
00:19:22.64\00:19:27.95
Wow!
00:19:27.98\00:19:28.95
So this is more powerful
than the normal treatment you
00:19:28.96\00:19:32.01
normally would hear about.
00:19:32.04\00:19:33.34
Absolutely, and not only that
what was amazing to a lot of
00:19:33.37\00:19:36.42
folk was that in the
treatment group they were not on
00:19:36.45\00:19:38.29
on medication, and so of course
this was an unusual study. These
00:19:38.32\00:19:43.56
were people who of course
agreed to this intervention.
00:19:43.60\00:19:46.62
Sometimes I asked folk, "Would
you be willing to do that?"
00:19:46.65\00:19:49.14
Well, ahead of time we might
say, "I'm not so sure," but now
00:19:49.17\00:19:52.20
looking back you would want to
be in a treatment group because
00:19:52.23\00:19:55.36
the five year results
were published in 1998 in the
00:19:55.39\00:19:58.44
Journal of American Medical
Association and they showed
00:19:58.47\00:20:02.10
that there was almost a
28% worsening of the blockage.
00:20:02.13\00:20:07.11
They were getting 28%
worse and the treatment group,
00:20:07.14\00:20:13.65
they had reversed by
almost 8%. They had opened up
00:20:13.68\00:20:16.46
by about 8% in 5 years.
00:20:16.49\00:20:20.23
So lifestyle intervention
is much more effective than the
00:20:20.26\00:20:24.45
traditional approach is
what you're finding out?
00:20:24.48\00:20:26.40
That's what he showed clearly
and there have been others.
00:20:26.43\00:20:30.19
Dr. Caulrel Estergen Jr.
has done some work on using diet
00:20:30.22\00:20:34.91
and lifestyle to treat coronary
artery disease with similar
00:20:34.94\00:20:37.60
results and so
has John McDougal.
00:20:37.63\00:20:40.62
There's a number of
doctors that have done this work
00:20:40.65\00:20:43.10
and actually had even studies
of the flow of the blood to
00:20:43.13\00:20:47.43
the heart.
00:20:47.46\00:20:48.43
This is an objective measure.
00:20:48.44\00:20:49.83
This is not just looking at "Did
your cholesterol go down?" but
00:20:49.86\00:20:53.31
"Did the
blockages open up or not?"
00:20:53.34\00:20:56.69
Same thing's true of the
CHIP program that they have
00:20:56.72\00:20:58.53
some studies showing that.
00:20:58.56\00:20:59.57
Yes, yes, I understand that
Hans Diehl's coronary health
00:20:59.60\00:21:02.46
improvement project that
has been documented to improve
00:21:02.49\00:21:07.64
circulation of the
blood to the heart.
00:21:07.67\00:21:09.89
The modern techniques we
have we can actually look at
00:21:09.92\00:21:12.85
and see how well the heart
muscle is being "profused" with
00:21:12.88\00:21:16.34
blood and we can see a
significant difference from
00:21:16.37\00:21:20.29
these lifestyle programs.
00:21:20.32\00:21:21.36
You had another study as well
looking at diet that you want...
00:21:21.39\00:21:24.17
Yes, you know there was
an amazing study published by
00:21:24.20\00:21:28.14
Dr. David Jenkins.
00:21:28.17\00:21:29.92
He's head of eccrinology
at University of Toronto.
00:21:29.95\00:21:34.15
And this was published,
I believe, in 2003 in the
00:21:34.18\00:21:39.46
Journal of American Medical
Association. What he did was,
00:21:39.49\00:21:41.40
he took a group of
patients that had very high
00:21:41.43\00:21:45.08
cholesterol, what we
call hyperlipidemics,
00:21:45.11\00:21:47.20
cholesterol over 250, and
he put... this was a randomized
00:21:47.23\00:21:53.12
trial, he put one group on a
diet that was... he called it
00:21:53.15\00:22:01.59
Portfolio Diet because it
consisted of pieces of things
00:22:01.62\00:22:04.88
that have been shown in
the literature to reduce
00:22:04.91\00:22:06.96
cholesterol... soy protein,
viscous fiber, almonds, etc.,
00:22:06.99\00:22:12.58
so you call it a portfolio.
00:22:12.61\00:22:14.62
And another group we put
on Lovastatin, 20 mg a day.
00:22:14.65\00:22:19.86
This is a typical starting dose,
as you may know, for a statin
00:22:19.89\00:22:23.86
which lowers cholesterol.
00:22:23.89\00:22:25.41
That's the drug you get
from your doctor when you have
00:22:25.44\00:22:27.11
high cholesterol, right?
00:22:27.14\00:22:28.11
Yes, that's one
of the older ones.
00:22:28.12\00:22:29.29
You might not get Lovastatin
these days, but it's about
00:22:29.32\00:22:31.20
the similar to the others.
00:22:31.23\00:22:33.00
Then there was a third group,
as a control group, and they had
00:22:33.03\00:22:36.59
no change, they didn't
get any special intervention.
00:22:36.62\00:22:39.60
And what we found was that
there was a highly significant
00:22:39.63\00:22:44.32
reduction in
cholesterol in two groups.
00:22:44.35\00:22:47.88
The Lovastatin and the Portfolio
Diet both reduced cholesterol.
00:22:47.91\00:22:54.87
Which is more?
00:22:54.90\00:22:55.87
Well, the one that seemed to be
a little bit more may have been
00:22:55.88\00:22:59.72
Lovastatin depending on
what numbers you look at,
00:22:59.75\00:23:02.24
LDL vs. the ratio, etc.
00:23:02.27\00:23:05.02
But what we did find there
was no statistically significant
00:23:05.05\00:23:08.38
difference between the Portfolio
Diet without medication or the
00:23:08.41\00:23:12.50
Lovastatin without diet.
00:23:12.53\00:23:14.33
So what this is telling us
is that his studies show that
00:23:14.36\00:23:19.23
lifestyle alone can be as
effective as a beginning dose
00:23:19.26\00:23:24.17
of a statin.
00:23:24.20\00:23:25.17
I'm excited because a
number of studies are being done
00:23:25.18\00:23:29.27
continually now showing
that lifestyle intervention is
00:23:29.30\00:23:33.16
as or more effective
than medication for many of
00:23:33.19\00:23:36.28
these diseases.
00:23:36.31\00:23:37.35
So you're planning to put
all these studies... you've
00:23:37.38\00:23:40.44
reviewed the literature, it's
obvious, you've reviewed one on
00:23:40.47\00:23:44.79
heart disease, you've reviewed
one on diet here, and what
00:23:44.82\00:23:49.38
you're hoping to show, or maybe
a scientist would say that, what
00:23:49.41\00:23:53.97
you expect to find perhaps,
you'll be surprised if you don't
00:23:54.00\00:23:57.79
these lifestyle centers will
be just as effective as a statin
00:23:57.82\00:24:03.08
and even more effective when
you look at the side effects.
00:24:03.11\00:24:05.55
Yes, in fact what we have done
I've taken that same data that
00:24:05.58\00:24:08.73
we got from these five centers
that we mentioned earlier
00:24:08.76\00:24:12.10
and we have looked at the
results from those subjects
00:24:12.13\00:24:18.10
comparing them to
these published results.
00:24:18.13\00:24:20.17
And what we've
found is that really the
00:24:20.20\00:24:23.63
lifestyle intervention is
as effective as these published
00:24:23.66\00:24:31.22
studies are showing.
00:24:31.25\00:24:32.44
So in other words, we don't
just think this, we have some
00:24:32.47\00:24:35.36
objective data, some objective
analyses to indicate that yes
00:24:35.39\00:24:40.68
the typical patient going
through a lifestyle center
00:24:40.71\00:24:43.88
is having as good or better
risk reductions as those that
00:24:43.91\00:24:49.45
are in these published studies.
00:24:49.48\00:24:50.63
What we want to do is we
want to now do a longer term
00:24:50.66\00:24:56.02
prospective longitudinal study.
00:24:56.05\00:24:59.28
In other words, these are
looking at three weeks results.
00:24:59.31\00:25:02.60
Month long.
00:25:02.63\00:25:05.06
And so we need to look at what
happens at one year, five years
00:25:05.09\00:25:10.29
just like the
Dean Ornish study did.
00:25:10.32\00:25:12.54
And that will then document
that not only are they effective
00:25:12.57\00:25:16.59
on the short term but
also in the long term.
00:25:16.62\00:25:18.82
Do you expect to find a
difference in those groups
00:25:18.85\00:25:21.17
between those that respond
to the spiritual component
00:25:21.20\00:25:25.22
vs. those that do not?
00:25:25.25\00:25:27.37
You know, Don, I'm actually very
excited in what we will find
00:25:27.40\00:25:31.78
in looking to ferret out, what
are the predictors of who does
00:25:31.81\00:25:38.51
well and stays with the
program and vs. who doesn't.
00:25:38.54\00:25:41.50
One of the things that Dean
Ornish showed in his study was
00:25:41.53\00:25:43.63
that there was a regression
in only 82% of the subjects.
00:25:43.67\00:25:50.07
In other words
reversal or whatever.
00:25:50.11\00:25:52.79
Yes.
00:25:52.82\00:25:53.79
So I ask myself
why didn't everybody?
00:25:53.80\00:25:55.81
And he showed that the amount
of regression correlated to
00:25:55.84\00:26:00.73
the adherence to the program.
00:26:00.77\00:26:03.03
The greater that
they followed the program,
00:26:03.07\00:26:05.73
the greater the regression.
00:26:05.76\00:26:07.20
So, yes, you're right, it
will be very interesting to see
00:26:07.24\00:26:10.88
if there's a predictor
and what is the predictor?
00:26:10.91\00:26:14.31
Many of us think that it will
be those who take their personal
00:26:14.34\00:26:19.23
health as a steward, looking
at themselves as a steward,
00:26:19.26\00:26:23.02
as opposed to an owner.
00:26:23.05\00:26:25.43
Do you have that in your
study that you're planning?
00:26:25.47\00:26:27.87
Do you have those kind of
questions so you can look at
00:26:27.91\00:26:30.28
that spiritual component?
00:26:30.32\00:26:31.46
Yes, we will definitely
be doing spiritual history,
00:26:31.50\00:26:36.68
if you will, or
spiritual measures.
00:26:36.72\00:26:38.88
We'll be looking
at a lot of things.
00:26:38.91\00:26:40.11
We'll be looking at
depression for example.
00:26:40.14\00:26:41.91
It's been thought
perhaps depression factors may
00:26:41.94\00:26:44.57
play into this.
00:26:44.61\00:26:45.58
We'll be
looking at spirituality.
00:26:45.59\00:26:47.44
Be looking at the attitude,
00:26:47.47\00:26:50.40
the change in
the attitude itself.
00:26:50.43\00:26:52.13
We're probably going to
find things that we don't even
00:26:52.17\00:26:55.28
anticipate.
00:26:55.31\00:26:56.28
Right.
00:26:56.29\00:26:57.26
You know, I've always wanted
someone to do the very study
00:26:57.27\00:27:00.46
that you're doing.
00:27:00.49\00:27:01.64
I really believe that's a
study for this time. I have
00:27:01.67\00:27:04.90
said in my church and other
churches around the nation are
00:27:04.94\00:27:10.20
now becoming more energized
in trying to be kind of
00:27:10.23\00:27:13.39
lifestyle centers themselves.
00:27:13.43\00:27:15.24
Churches, that what I've seen
antidotally, those people that
00:27:15.28\00:27:20.54
make the spiritual connection
really have more effective
00:27:20.57\00:27:25.80
results in the long haul.
00:27:25.83\00:27:27.43
You told me that church leaders
are really endorsing what
00:27:27.46\00:27:31.93
you're doing - Mark Finley, a
well known Adventist evangelist
00:27:31.97\00:27:36.41
and others are
really backing this up.
00:27:36.44\00:27:39.39
Thank you so much
for joining us today.
00:27:39.43\00:27:42.19
Thank you, Don, I
appreciate being here.
00:27:42.22\00:27:44.91
Thank you for joining us
on Health for a Lifetime.
00:27:44.95\00:27:47.68
There's good news out
there and it maybe just as close
00:27:47.72\00:27:50.42
as your nearest
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
00:27:50.45\00:27:52.62
Check them out, check a
lifestyle out and you'll have
00:27:52.65\00:27:55.36
health that
lasts for a life time.
00:27:55.40\00:27:57.70