I'm your host Don Mackintosh
00:00:50.83\00:00:52.28
We're glad that
you've joined us today.
00:00:52.31\00:00:54.13
We're going to have a
very interesting program
00:00:54.16\00:00:56.43
that looks at the
issue of STRESS...
00:00:56.46\00:00:58.93
And today joining
us is Dr. Skip MacCarty
00:00:58.96\00:01:02.10
He has written a
seminar on stress called...
00:01:02.13\00:01:05.08
"Stress Beyond Coping"
00:01:05.11\00:01:06.64
People can find out about
that by calling us here at 3ABN
00:01:06.67\00:01:10.01
and also the Church
Ministries Department...
00:01:10.04\00:01:12.53
But this is a
different angle of that...
00:01:12.56\00:01:15.41
Church Ministries
Department, I should say,
00:01:15.44\00:01:17.03
is the General Conference
of Seventh-day Adventists
00:01:17.06\00:01:19.16
which has adopted your program.
00:01:19.19\00:01:21.52
This is a different
angle when we look at stress.
00:01:21.55\00:01:24.13
You've entitled the presentation
today or our talk today
00:01:24.16\00:01:28.42
...what we're going to be
talking about is "Divine Stress"
00:01:28.45\00:01:30.79
What exactly is divine stress?
00:01:30.82\00:01:32.73
Well Don, it's not something
we ordinarily think about.
00:01:32.76\00:01:37.19
The whole field of stress
management studies human stress,
00:01:37.22\00:01:40.45
animal stress and there
are physiological-biochemical
00:01:40.48\00:01:45.11
responses to
threatening situations in life;
00:01:45.14\00:01:48.87
when we process
things, we have fears;
00:01:48.90\00:01:50.73
we process where it causes a
chemical reaction in our bodies.
00:01:50.76\00:01:54.56
That's what stress is
- it's the chemical and
00:01:54.59\00:01:57.68
the emotional reactions
to difficult circumstances.
00:01:57.71\00:02:00.80
But divine stress takes us
back to predating human stress;
00:02:00.83\00:02:06.30
predating
animal stress and says,
00:02:06.33\00:02:08.17
God has had emergencies and He
has responded through all this
00:02:08.20\00:02:13.82
at great cost and pain to
Himself - through this whole
00:02:13.85\00:02:16.61
process - it's
beginning to look at that.
00:02:16.64\00:02:19.12
And even to say, the
Father and Son and Holy Spirit
00:02:19.15\00:02:21.89
at some time in the
whole history of this process,
00:02:21.92\00:02:24.94
if we understand it
right, made a choice to give
00:02:24.97\00:02:27.56
the creation freedom.
00:02:27.59\00:02:30.22
That's stressful in
and of itself, isn't it?
00:02:30.25\00:02:31.77
Well they knew that
there was going to be a cost,
00:02:31.80\00:02:33.28
a potential cost to that.
00:02:33.31\00:02:35.28
And they counted the
cost, they were willing to pay
00:02:35.31\00:02:37.82
the price before they went into
it and that in itself is awesome
00:02:37.85\00:02:40.32
So where did this
divine stress then start?
00:02:41.21\00:02:44.58
Well, we go back in the Bible...
00:02:44.61\00:02:46.71
That first record of this in
the Bible is in Revelation 12:7
00:02:46.74\00:02:50.82
It said there was war in heaven.
00:02:50.85\00:02:52.17
This predates
anything on the earth.
00:02:52.20\00:02:53.76
Before the earth was created,
there was war in heaven.
00:02:53.79\00:02:56.16
Michael, which is Christ and His
angels fought against the dragon
00:02:56.19\00:03:00.00
and the dragon and
his angels fought back.
00:03:00.03\00:03:02.07
Here we have war in heaven,
00:03:02.10\00:03:03.90
and in the book of
Ezekiel, it talks about
00:03:03.93\00:03:06.31
how this war kind of originated.
00:03:06.34\00:03:09.99
There was a being, an
angel that was named Lucifer,
00:03:10.02\00:03:15.30
and in Ezekiel 28 it
says... "You were anointed as a
00:03:15.33\00:03:19.04
guardian cherub, A
cherub is an angel.
00:03:19.07\00:03:21.23
for so I ordained you.
00:03:21.26\00:03:23.99
You were on the holy
mount of God; you walked among
00:03:24.02\00:03:26.45
the fiery stones.
00:03:26.48\00:03:28.05
You were blameless in all
your ways from the day you were
00:03:28.08\00:03:30.31
created till
wickedness was found in you. "
00:03:30.34\00:03:32.87
You can imagine what that
would have been like for God
00:03:32.90\00:03:35.02
to find wickedness...
Very stress-producing
00:03:35.05\00:03:39.05
to see that they had chosen
the evil instead of the good.
00:03:39.08\00:03:41.44
Yeah, and some of the other
Scriptures say that somehow
00:03:41.47\00:03:46.48
in his mind, he began to aspire
to be even greater than God,
00:03:46.51\00:03:49.84
and that led to that...
00:03:49.87\00:03:51.17
And then,
Revelation 12:9 says...
00:03:51.20\00:03:54.06
" The great dragon...
Lucifer then, this wonderful
00:03:54.09\00:03:57.58
angel became viewed
as a dragon and evil,
00:03:57.61\00:04:01.26
and he was hurled down.
00:04:01.29\00:04:02.51
The ancient serpent
called the devil or Satan,
00:04:02.54\00:04:04.48
who leads the whole world
astray. Hurled to the earth,
00:04:04.51\00:04:07.44
and his angels with him. "
00:04:07.47\00:04:08.80
We don't have time to go into
ALL the ramifications of that,
00:04:08.83\00:04:11.34
but needless to say,
what was happening was
00:04:11.37\00:04:13.70
a divine divorce
taking place in heaven.
00:04:13.73\00:04:16.27
God's heart was torn
apart because one of the angels
00:04:16.30\00:04:20.19
closest to Him - an
anointed cherub that covereth...
00:04:20.22\00:04:22.32
And that's a phrase
in the Bible to say...
00:04:22.35\00:04:25.03
VERY close - intimate
with God, pulled away from Him
00:04:25.06\00:04:29.21
and became his enemy.
00:04:29.24\00:04:31.23
Anyone who has gone through
divorce or a child has left home
00:04:31.26\00:04:35.12
knows the pain involved in that.
00:04:35.15\00:04:37.97
This is GOD we're talking about.
00:04:38.00\00:04:40.00
It's almost too sacred
to approach but we have to
00:04:40.03\00:04:43.28
because when we talk about
stress we can't leave it out.
00:04:43.31\00:04:45.93
How did God then
respond to this initial problem?
00:04:45.96\00:04:50.86
You know, Don, when Jesus
was here, in Matthew 7:12,
00:04:50.89\00:04:53.99
He gave us an admonition
that really is right out of the
00:04:54.02\00:04:56.17
heart of God - He
said, "So in everything,
00:04:56.20\00:04:58.41
And that little word "so"
in some other translations is
00:04:58.44\00:05:01.50
"therefore" because
He just talked about -
00:05:01.53\00:05:03.33
If we're evil, we give
good things to our children...
00:05:03.36\00:05:06.23
How much more will
our Heavenly Father
00:05:06.26\00:05:09.00
give us good things
when we ask for them.
00:05:09.03\00:05:10.73
He's saying "so" because God is
like this, you be like this also
00:05:10.77\00:05:14.99
in everything, do to others as
you would have them do for you,
00:05:15.02\00:05:17.28
this sums up the
law and the prophets. "
00:05:17.31\00:05:18.59
This is right out
of the heart of God.
00:05:18.62\00:05:19.98
This is the nature of God.
00:05:20.01\00:05:21.33
So God treats Lucifer and
He treats those fallen angels
00:05:21.36\00:05:24.25
He treats all who were
infected by their rebellion as
00:05:24.28\00:05:27.42
would want to be treated
if He were in their place...
00:05:27.45\00:05:29.26
Even though that would mean
great cost in pain to Himself.
00:05:29.29\00:05:32.39
So He just goes on with
the creation of the world...
00:05:32.42\00:05:34.91
Goes on with the
creation of the world.
00:05:34.94\00:05:36.16
He goes on with life
- like we have to do.
00:05:36.19\00:05:38.59
If we lose a
child, a child dies,
00:05:38.62\00:05:41.46
or some other very difficult
painful experience happens
00:05:41.49\00:05:44.77
in our life, we HAVE to go on;
00:05:44.80\00:05:46.36
as hard as it
is, we HAVE to go on.
00:05:46.39\00:05:48.35
There's work to be done;
there's a job to go back to;
00:05:48.38\00:05:50.65
there are other members
of the family to care for
00:05:50.68\00:05:52.60
and so forth - we have
other responsibilities.
00:05:52.63\00:05:55.22
God went right ahead with
the creation of the world.
00:05:55.25\00:05:57.31
So moving then from
heaven to the earth,
00:05:57.34\00:05:58.89
was there stress
involved in the creative act,
00:05:58.92\00:06:01.18
and all those different
things when the world began?
00:06:01.21\00:06:03.16
Well there had to be
because, you know the potential
00:06:03.19\00:06:05.38
for evil was there and
then when Adam and Eve fell...
00:06:05.41\00:06:09.87
We're doing a lot of kind
of shortcuts here in the story,
00:06:09.90\00:06:13.52
but Adam and Eve fell and
became under the influence
00:06:13.55\00:06:16.03
of Satan willingly -
they willingly did that;
00:06:16.06\00:06:18.65
used their freedom to do that.
00:06:18.68\00:06:20.23
A very interesting
statement occurs in Genesis 3:22
00:06:20.26\00:06:23.45
that again lets us
into the heart of God...
00:06:23.48\00:06:25.19
That's not just
a cold statement,
00:06:30.26\00:06:32.58
that's a
brokenhearted statement...
00:06:32.61\00:06:34.82
Because God had been
infected by evil in heaven
00:06:34.85\00:06:38.45
through Lucifer's rebellion.
00:06:38.48\00:06:41.24
And God had suffered
the pain of that separation.
00:06:41.27\00:06:44.26
He knew the pain sin could
bring to personal experience
00:06:44.29\00:06:47.89
Now Adam and Eve had
fallen into that same pain,
00:06:47.92\00:06:51.33
and He said, I didn't want you
to have to experience the pain.
00:06:51.36\00:06:54.92
"I would that you be naive
concerning that which is evil"
00:06:54.95\00:06:57.50
That's exactly...
because He knew the
00:06:57.53\00:06:59.57
pain that it was
going to bring them.
00:06:59.61\00:07:00.64
He didn't want them to have
to suffer as He had suffered.
00:07:00.67\00:07:03.50
But now He said...
You know good and evil
00:07:03.53\00:07:06.04
the same way I do by experience.
00:07:06.07\00:07:08.90
I didn't want you to have to
experience the pain like this...
00:07:08.93\00:07:12.20
And so, again, it was
just breaking His heart,
00:07:12.23\00:07:14.96
but He went on with them.
00:07:14.99\00:07:16.02
He stuck with them through that
process. Started to intervene...
00:07:16.05\00:07:18.82
And then the next thing
we know in that same chapter,
00:07:18.85\00:07:22.50
He's giving them a promise that
he's going to enter into this
00:07:22.53\00:07:25.02
experience with them and
go with them all the way.
00:07:25.05\00:07:26.74
He said, "The Lord God said to
the serpent, I will put enmity
00:07:26.77\00:07:29.04
between you and the woman.
00:07:29.07\00:07:30.25
The woman
represents the children of God.
00:07:30.28\00:07:32.78
Those would be born
on this earth between
00:07:32.81\00:07:34.35
your offspring and
hers; he will crush your head
00:07:34.38\00:07:37.41
and you will strike his heel. "
00:07:37.44\00:07:38.96
That's a promise
actually of the Messiah coming.
00:07:38.99\00:07:45.21
The Messiah will crush
the head of the serpent,
00:07:45.24\00:07:47.02
but the serpent will
bite the heel of the Messiah
00:07:47.05\00:07:49.06
and God is saying...
I'm going to enter into this
00:07:49.09\00:07:51.71
experience with you;
I'm going to share your pain
00:07:51.74\00:07:53.82
with you and
ultimately do whatever it takes
00:07:53.85\00:07:56.44
in order to save you
from this - to rescue you
00:07:56.47\00:07:58.87
from the pain and
suffering, and the stress
00:07:58.90\00:08:01.92
that you're going to endure
00:08:01.95\00:08:03.21
because of the
choices that have been made.
00:08:03.24\00:08:05.66
Well then, of course, the next
thing in the Bible that I recall
00:08:05.69\00:08:09.30
that it kind of went
south from there, it seems to...
00:08:09.33\00:08:11.67
People just continued to get
evil and then it was the flood.
00:08:11.70\00:08:14.58
That must have
been stress-inducing.
00:08:14.61\00:08:16.48
Oh, I tell you, and
the Bible language...
00:08:16.51\00:08:18.10
Again in Genesis
6... the language,
00:08:18.13\00:08:20.37
you just look at
the language itself.
00:08:20.40\00:08:22.16
Look at this... The
Lord God saw how great man's
00:08:22.19\00:08:24.74
wickedness on
the earth had become,
00:08:24.77\00:08:26.52
that every inclination
of the thoughts of his heart
00:08:26.55\00:08:29.13
was only evil all the time.
00:08:29.16\00:08:31.47
The Lord was
grieved... That's stress!
00:08:31.50\00:08:35.95
Now, I know what
it's like to be grieved.
00:08:35.98\00:08:38.07
I've grieved a
few times in my life.
00:08:38.10\00:08:40.42
I mean, really, to the point
where I couldn't help but cry.
00:08:40.45\00:08:43.51
I just couldn't
stop myself from crying.
00:08:43.54\00:08:46.01
Now this says - The Lord
was grieved that He had made man
00:08:46.04\00:08:51.25
on the earth, His
heart was filled with pain.
00:08:51.28\00:08:56.31
Think of that, God is letting us
00:08:56.34\00:08:57.84
into a little bit
of His own pain here.
00:08:57.87\00:09:00.38
He doesn't do this
very often in the Bible.
00:09:00.41\00:09:02.72
It takes some research
to put these texts together,
00:09:02.75\00:09:05.51
but God is
suffering great pain...
00:09:05.54\00:09:07.72
And you know, Don, in stress
management, we're thinking about
00:09:07.75\00:09:10.14
our stress.
00:09:10.17\00:09:11.20
I'm doing research
in the stress field...
00:09:11.23\00:09:13.74
we're thinking about -
we do research on animals,
00:09:13.77\00:09:15.70
so we can understand
our own stress better.
00:09:15.73\00:09:17.27
We put them under
stress, put them to death,
00:09:17.30\00:09:20.87
do autopsies to see how
different techniques would...
00:09:20.90\00:09:23.97
It's about us, but
just little glimpses here,
00:09:24.00\00:09:27.16
we see that our God has
suffered so enormously in this,
00:09:27.19\00:09:32.37
and would that we had
the heart to just look at Him
00:09:32.40\00:09:36.73
and say - God, I'm sorry you had
00:09:36.76\00:09:39.47
to go through
this because of us.
00:09:39.50\00:09:41.16
We love you all the more for it.
00:09:41.19\00:09:42.82
So that's really what
we're doing in this study.
00:09:42.85\00:09:44.61
Well sometimes people
will talk about, you know,
00:09:44.64\00:09:46.86
well, God seems to be
aloof; He seems to be passive;
00:09:46.89\00:09:49.22
He doesn't seem to be
involved with our pain.
00:09:49.25\00:09:50.96
So what you're saying is,
there's a different picture
00:09:50.99\00:09:52.99
that you found of God as
you look at the Scriptures.
00:09:53.02\00:09:55.03
You know, it's all
through the Scriptures.
00:09:55.06\00:09:57.02
You take the
passage in Isaiah 63...
00:09:57.05\00:09:59.38
It says, "In all
their distress, He too...
00:09:59.41\00:10:05.55
God you see -
God was distressed"
00:10:05.58\00:10:08.30
Or another translation says -
00:10:08.33\00:10:09.82
"In all their
affliction, He was afflicted"
00:10:09.85\00:10:11.75
That's it, I mean, we
don't go through anything
00:10:11.78\00:10:13.65
alone here on this earth.
00:10:13.68\00:10:14.85
Isaiah 53- talking about the
Messiah that we accept as Jesus.
00:10:14.88\00:10:19.07
"Surely He, the
Messiah, took up our infirmities
00:10:19.10\00:10:22.00
and carried our sorrows. "
00:10:22.03\00:10:24.37
So what we call the Trinity,
the Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
00:10:24.40\00:10:29.98
have been
identifying with our...
00:10:30.01\00:10:32.30
they have their own pain.
00:10:32.33\00:10:33.56
They have their own suffering.
00:10:33.59\00:10:35.05
But that's not enough,
they're going to come down;
00:10:35.08\00:10:37.36
they're not going
to let us suffer alone.
00:10:37.39\00:10:38.98
They're going to suffer WITH us.
00:10:39.01\00:10:40.78
My pain is also God's pain.
00:10:40.81\00:10:43.54
His isn't mine - I can't
even wrap my mind around it,
00:10:43.57\00:10:47.32
let alone my emotions
but my pain is His pain.
00:10:47.35\00:10:50.49
He takes it on Himself.
00:10:50.52\00:10:52.58
So in other places it says He
00:10:52.61\00:10:53.73
sees even every
sparrow that falls.
00:10:53.76\00:10:55.89
So then He really
enters into the pain of that.
00:10:55.92\00:10:57.75
Of course, some people
would say that's because
00:10:57.78\00:11:00.01
those sparrows were brought
as an example of His sacrifice,
00:11:00.04\00:11:03.55
but He's really
involved with the pain of even
00:11:03.58\00:11:06.33
the whole creation groans!
00:11:06.36\00:11:09.04
The whole creation -
it's just awesome to think
00:11:09.07\00:11:11.60
that we're
talking about God here.
00:11:11.63\00:11:13.21
Now I imagine that just
working with us and trying to
00:11:13.24\00:11:16.80
get through to us,
just that thing alone is
00:11:16.83\00:11:19.98
sort of like a parent
trying to get through to a
00:11:20.01\00:11:22.12
rebellious son or daughter.
00:11:22.15\00:11:23.40
I mean that's
probably stress-inducing.
00:11:23.43\00:11:26.14
You know Don, I don't
know what could be more
00:11:26.17\00:11:28.57
stress-inducing for -
let's say a wife who loves
00:11:28.60\00:11:32.48
the husband and to have the
husband choose somebody else
00:11:32.51\00:11:34.88
and leave her.
00:11:34.91\00:11:37.25
The week before I came
to tape these programs,
00:11:37.28\00:11:40.83
I was with a wife
whose husband had left,
00:11:40.86\00:11:45.69
and just uncontrollably weeping.
00:11:45.72\00:11:48.79
And there are places in
the Bible, we see God just
00:11:48.82\00:11:52.10
in little glimpses of
it, He just uncontrollably
00:11:52.13\00:11:55.02
begins to weep right
in front of our eyes,
00:11:55.05\00:11:56.92
in a few texts in the Bible.
00:11:56.95\00:11:58.43
Take Isaiah 5:4, where
you kind of hear the tears
00:11:58.46\00:12:01.77
here in this
passage where he says...
00:12:01.80\00:12:03.61
"What more could I
have done for my vineyard"
00:12:03.64\00:12:06.19
He's not talking
about grapes here.
00:12:06.22\00:12:07.85
He's talking about His family.
00:12:07.88\00:12:09.98
His family here on earth -
"What more could I have done
00:12:10.01\00:12:12.00
for my vineyard
than I have done for it?"
00:12:12.03\00:12:14.34
Moving right through
several Scriptures here,
00:12:14.37\00:12:16.20
Hosea - In Hosea He said,
"How can I give you up, Ephraim"
00:12:16.23\00:12:20.83
You can just hear God pleading
and just His heart is broken.
00:12:20.86\00:12:24.21
How can I hand you over, Israel?
00:12:24.24\00:12:26.37
They had turned against Him,
00:12:26.40\00:12:27.59
so He couldn't
protect them anymore.
00:12:27.62\00:12:29.16
They're going to be
turned over to their enemies,
00:12:29.20\00:12:30.79
but He's just so
pained, He's weeping here.
00:12:30.82\00:12:33.55
My heart is changed within me.
00:12:33.58\00:12:35.87
His heart is torn up.
00:12:35.90\00:12:39.09
All my compassion is aroused.
00:12:39.12\00:12:41.37
When Jesus was here,
he pleaded with His people
00:12:41.40\00:12:44.43
in Jerusalem -
please, to believe in Him,
00:12:44.46\00:12:47.92
and they rejected Him.
00:12:47.95\00:12:49.10
And in Matthew 23, after
He gives some denunciation
00:12:49.13\00:12:52.65
to the Pharisees, it just
tore Him up to have to do that,
00:12:52.68\00:12:55.11
but He was trying to SAVE them;
00:12:55.14\00:12:57.31
trying to bring
some of them back again,
00:12:57.34\00:12:59.77
and He just breaks
down, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,
00:12:59.80\00:13:02.84
you who killed the
prophets and stoned those who
00:13:02.87\00:13:05.54
sent you out, often I
have longed to gather your
00:13:05.57\00:13:09.15
children together as
a hen gathers her chicks
00:13:09.18\00:13:11.65
under her wings, but
you were not willing. "
00:13:11.68\00:13:13.98
You can hear Him crying there.
00:13:14.01\00:13:15.59
And then in Isaiah 15 and
16, He actually breaks down...
00:13:15.62\00:13:20.64
It is
uncontrollable at this point.
00:13:20.67\00:13:21.95
He says... "My
heart cries over Moab"
00:13:21.98\00:13:24.23
Now Moab was not the
best nation in the world.
00:13:24.26\00:13:29.30
It was an evil nation;
it had to be destroyed,
00:13:29.33\00:13:31.75
but God was torn up over that.
00:13:31.78\00:13:35.59
"I weep as Jazer weeps, He
said, for the vines of Sibnah"
00:13:35.62\00:13:38.98
Talking about the
inhabitants of Moab...
00:13:39.01\00:13:40.81
"O Heshbon, O Elealeh,
I drench you with tears"
00:13:40.84\00:13:43.90
Now this is not
getting over-emotional here...
00:13:43.93\00:13:47.60
This is God letting us
into a little bit of His heart,
00:13:47.63\00:13:50.40
absolutely filled -
torn apart with pain.
00:13:50.43\00:13:53.36
Talk about stress, Don,
He understands our stress.
00:13:53.39\00:13:58.76
We don't have a clue hardly
to His what He's going through,
00:13:58.79\00:14:02.31
what He has done
for us; it humbles me.
00:14:02.34\00:14:05.41
It absolutely humbles me.
00:14:05.44\00:14:07.41
Even the most
rebellious, that being Moab or
00:14:07.44\00:14:10.26
you see those
examples in the Bible,
00:14:10.29\00:14:11.97
He just weeps over them as well.
00:14:12.00\00:14:14.61
We're talking
with Dr. Skip MacCarty
00:14:14.64\00:14:16.04
and we're talking about
stress from a different angle.
00:14:16.07\00:14:18.75
Trying to just
through looking at Scripture
00:14:18.78\00:14:20.97
look at the divine
piece of the puzzle;
00:14:21.00\00:14:25.12
the divine look at stress
at what God must go through.
00:14:25.15\00:14:28.31
We hope that you can join us
00:14:28.34\00:14:29.67
when we come back
because there is hope.
00:14:29.70\00:14:39.08
Have you found yourself wishing
00:14:39.11\00:14:40.55
that you could
shed a few pounds?
00:14:40.59\00:14:41.69
Have you been on a
diet for most of your life
00:14:41.72\00:14:44.32
but not found anything that
will really keep the weight off?
00:14:44.35\00:14:47.12
If you've answered "yes"
to any of these questions,
00:14:47.15\00:14:50.34
then we have a
solution for you that works!
00:14:50.37\00:14:53.09
Dr. Hans Diehl and
Dr. Aileen Ludington
00:14:53.12\00:14:55.95
have written a
marvelous booklet called...
00:14:55.98\00:14:57.99
"Reversing Obesity Naturally"
00:14:58.02\00:15:00.41
and we'd like to send
it to you FREE of charge.
00:15:00.44\00:15:02.88
Here's a medically sound
approach successfully used
00:15:02.91\00:15:05.80
by thousands who were able
to eat more and lose weight
00:15:05.83\00:15:08.92
permanently without
feeling guilty or hungry
00:15:08.95\00:15:11.78
through lifestyle medicine.
00:15:11.81\00:15:13.37
Dr. Diehl and Dr. Ludington
have been featured on 3ABN
00:15:13.40\00:15:17.02
and in this booklet,
they present a sensible
00:15:17.05\00:15:19.57
approach to eating,
nutrition and lifestyle changes
00:15:19.60\00:15:22.48
that can help you
prevent heart disease, diabetes
00:15:22.51\00:15:24.93
and EVEN cancer.
00:15:24.96\00:15:26.39
Call or write today
for your free copy of...
00:15:26.42\00:15:28.56
"Reversing Obesity Naturally"
00:15:28.59\00:15:30.34
and you could be on your
way to a healthier, happier YOU!
00:15:30.37\00:15:33.72
It's ABSOLUTELY free of
charge, so call or write today.
00:15:33.75\00:15:41.59
Welcome back, we're
talking with Dr. Skip MacCarty
00:15:41.62\00:15:43.96
We're talking about stress from
a divine angle - Divine stress.
00:15:43.99\00:15:48.65
And, if you haven't
heard the first half of this,
00:15:48.68\00:15:50.89
you'll want to call
3ABN and get the whole tape
00:15:50.92\00:15:53.14
or listen to it again.
00:15:53.17\00:15:54.52
And we're talking about
how God's heart must have
00:15:54.55\00:15:57.79
broken and kind of a picture
built on not our reflections
00:15:57.82\00:16:01.56
but on the Scripture of what
God's heart really might have
00:16:01.59\00:16:06.78
looked like or, in fact, it
did if we believe the Bible.
00:16:06.81\00:16:08.94
This is how He relates
and so it gives us an insight
00:16:08.97\00:16:12.36
that in OUR stress,
He certainly can identify
00:16:12.39\00:16:15.24
because He has been
through a lot of stress.
00:16:15.27\00:16:17.74
Don, it's a picture -
you don't go to any one text
00:16:17.77\00:16:21.14
in the Bible and suddenly you
have a whole teaching of this,
00:16:21.17\00:16:23.71
but several years ago, I began
working my way through the Bible
00:16:23.74\00:16:27.43
...from Genesis 1:1
and just working my way
00:16:27.46\00:16:30.09
all the way to the end of
the Bible to find everything
00:16:30.12\00:16:32.06
I could find on
stress and stress management.
00:16:32.09\00:16:34.53
So I had a biblical feel for the
Bible's teaching on this subject
00:16:34.56\00:16:38.94
And one of the things that
kind of emerged out of that
00:16:38.97\00:16:43.70
was this picture of
the suffering of God
00:16:43.73\00:16:46.31
that just overwhelmed me and
00:16:46.34\00:16:49.24
it became more
and more overwhelming.
00:16:49.27\00:16:50.44
I remember when I
came up to Isaiah 53,
00:16:50.47\00:16:52.65
I was clipping along
a chapter or 2 a day,
00:16:52.68\00:16:55.52
you know and I was doing pretty
good in my progress I was making
00:16:55.55\00:16:58.74
I got up to Isaiah 53 and it
just stopped me in my tracks.
00:16:58.77\00:17:02.21
That's the story of the
suffering servant in the
00:17:02.24\00:17:04.71
Old Testament - the Messiah
to come and how He would suffer.
00:17:04.74\00:17:07.38
I literally was like, for
2 weeks, just mulling over
00:17:07.41\00:17:11.50
that and just
humbled by the pain
00:17:11.53\00:17:14.75
it was going to
cost God to win us back.
00:17:14.79\00:17:16.85
One of the New
Testament writers said that if
00:17:16.88\00:17:18.99
you've seen Jesus,
you've seen the Father,
00:17:19.02\00:17:21.83
and so what did you learn
as you looked at the Bible,
00:17:21.86\00:17:25.44
and looked at the life of
Jesus about divine stress?
00:17:25.47\00:17:28.36
You know a text that
we don't often think about
00:17:28.39\00:17:30.97
and relate to this subject,
but in the book of Hebrews 1:9
00:17:31.00\00:17:36.74
It says of Jesus - "You
have loved righteousness
00:17:36.77\00:17:40.60
and hated wickedness"
00:17:40.63\00:17:41.99
I don't know if you've ever
been in a place that just was
00:17:42.02\00:17:45.13
so hard to be in - maybe where
people are treating each other
00:17:45.16\00:17:52.79
just awful or something
and you were there observing
00:17:52.82\00:17:55.29
or something - I don't
know how we could relate to that
00:17:55.32\00:17:58.00
but Jesus actually was
repulsed by wickedness,
00:17:58.03\00:18:01.42
and yet it was all
around Him when He was here.
00:18:01.45\00:18:03.01
It was among the 12
disciples - they were bickering
00:18:03.04\00:18:05.19
who would be the greatest.
00:18:05.22\00:18:06.45
He was torn inside that way.
00:18:06.48\00:18:08.51
And you talk about
human suffering, Don,
00:18:08.54\00:18:10.59
you think about the different
kinds of great human suffering,
00:18:10.62\00:18:13.33
and Jesus was there -
He identified with it.
00:18:13.36\00:18:15.52
So He just recognized that He
needed more of the Holy Spirit,
00:18:15.55\00:18:21.48
I mean, the last
part of that text is...
00:18:21.51\00:18:22.81
"He was anointed
with the oil of gladness
00:18:22.84\00:18:24.85
more than all His brethren"
00:18:24.88\00:18:26.07
He HAD to have the Spirit with
00:18:26.10\00:18:27.26
Him to help him
through the stressful time.
00:18:27.29\00:18:29.24
It was like - hang in there,
you're going to make it! Yeah
00:18:29.27\00:18:32.28
That's the whole idea.
00:18:32.31\00:18:33.37
And take suffering,
for instance, like the
00:18:33.40\00:18:35.60
starving people of the world.
00:18:35.63\00:18:36.89
Where is God with all
these people starving?
00:18:36.92\00:18:38.53
Well you know what, when He
came down here and He said...
00:18:38.56\00:18:40.59
There is no way you're going
to starve and I'm going to be
00:18:40.62\00:18:42.39
eating BIG sumptuous
meals the whole time I'm here...
00:18:42.42\00:18:47.09
No, I'm your brother...
00:18:47.12\00:18:49.36
He went for 40
days without eating.
00:18:49.39\00:18:52.36
40 days - He
literally identified...
00:18:52.39\00:18:56.34
I've got a whole list
of experiences like this
00:18:56.37\00:18:59.27
where he's identifying with
our suffering all along the way.
00:18:59.30\00:19:01.80
Then you take
passages in Isaiah 52 and 53...
00:19:01.83\00:19:05.65
They're just
awesome in showing this...
00:19:05.68\00:19:07.50
His appearance was so
disfigured in talking about His
00:19:07.53\00:19:10.73
suffering at the
end of His life now,
00:19:10.77\00:19:12.49
so disfigured
beyond that of any man,
00:19:12.52\00:19:14.98
His form marred
beyond human likeness.
00:19:15.01\00:19:17.89
I mean, they beat Him
terribly and then just the
00:19:17.92\00:19:20.63
emotional strain and stress
of what He was going through
00:19:20.66\00:19:23.07
as He was being crucified.
00:19:23.10\00:19:24.60
"He was despised
and rejected by men;
00:19:24.63\00:19:27.66
a Man of sorrows
familiar with suffering.
00:19:27.69\00:19:30.55
Like one from whom
men hide their faces,
00:19:31.42\00:19:34.47
He was despised and
we esteemed him not. "
00:19:34.50\00:19:37.40
And then another Scripture from
the New Testament that says...
00:19:37.43\00:19:42.13
In essence - God was in Christ,
He was suffering IN Christ.
00:19:42.16\00:19:46.80
God was in Christ reconciling
the world to Himself so as
00:19:46.83\00:19:49.62
Christ was going through that
suffering, God was also there.
00:19:49.65\00:19:52.80
A text in 2
Corinthians says that.
00:19:52.83\00:19:55.81
So God, the Father
Himself was suffering
00:19:55.84\00:19:59.07
in and through
the Son so that...
00:19:59.10\00:20:04.34
We're thinking in
stress management about how to
00:20:04.37\00:20:06.47
help with human stress
when God is the One who
00:20:06.50\00:20:10.78
is experiencing
the MOST distress,
00:20:10.81\00:20:12.95
and yet He keeps
going, He keeps going...
00:20:12.98\00:20:14.57
He keeps doing the most loving
thing and keeps moving on.
00:20:14.60\00:20:18.19
Do you think this is
why the apostles said...
00:20:18.22\00:20:21.10
I'm just thankful to be involved
in the sufferings of Christ.
00:20:21.13\00:20:25.01
That well could be - they
considered it an honor to suffer
00:20:25.04\00:20:29.51
I am crucified with Christ,
therefore I no longer live,
00:20:29.54\00:20:32.20
Christ lives within me.
00:20:32.23\00:20:33.53
So they kind of
entered into that pain.
00:20:33.56\00:20:36.25
Yeah, and sometimes in the book
of Acts, it said they considered
00:20:36.28\00:20:39.06
it an honor to suffer for
the name, as it would say.
00:20:39.09\00:20:42.93
I think of that passage where
it says... it's a short verse,
00:20:42.96\00:20:45.88
one that everyone
memorizes, "Jesus wept"
00:20:45.91\00:20:48.27
And that kind of summarizes
it, does that to you? It does
00:20:48.30\00:20:50.64
It very well could, yes.
00:20:50.67\00:20:53.20
So, we usually think about
the Second Coming as a very
00:20:53.23\00:20:57.62
WONDERFUL time, but maybe
there are some other aspects
00:20:57.65\00:21:01.68
about that even that
could be stress-inducing.
00:21:01.71\00:21:03.88
That's right - well there's,
of course, the wonderful upside
00:21:03.91\00:21:07.13
of the Second Coming
when death will be no more,
00:21:07.16\00:21:10.55
and pain and suffering
are going to pass away,
00:21:10.58\00:21:12.33
and we have those
wonderful benefits of the
00:21:12.36\00:21:14.39
Second Coming of Christ...
00:21:14.42\00:21:15.74
But the other side of it is -
00:21:15.77\00:21:17.26
There is some of God's
children here on this earth
00:21:17.29\00:21:19.77
that He has worked
for, done EVERYTHING for
00:21:19.80\00:21:23.32
and they're not accepting
Him, all the way to the end.
00:21:23.35\00:21:27.72
They really seal
their own fate in a sense,
00:21:27.75\00:21:29.85
and He has to let them go.
00:21:29.88\00:21:31.54
And it pictures
that in Revelation 20:7-9
00:21:31.57\00:21:36.26
When you think about what this
is going to be like for God,
00:21:36.29\00:21:38.42
but these are His children now.
00:21:38.45\00:21:39.98
"When the thousand years
are over, Satan will be released
00:21:40.01\00:21:42.20
from his prison and will
go out to deceive the nations
00:21:42.23\00:21:44.30
to gather them
together for battle. "
00:21:44.33\00:21:46.24
Even Satan, at one
time, was close to Him.
00:21:46.27\00:21:48.25
All the evil angels were
close to Him at one time.
00:21:48.28\00:21:50.13
Every earth person at one
time, God just loved them,
00:21:50.16\00:21:55.05
and still does love them.
00:21:55.08\00:21:56.93
"They marched across
the breadth of the earth...
00:21:56.96\00:21:59.22
Now this is at
the very end of time.
00:21:59.25\00:22:00.86
Surrounded the
camp of God's people,
00:22:00.89\00:22:02.83
So now the Holy City
has come down to this earth
00:22:02.86\00:22:05.23
and here they are
going up to try to kill God,
00:22:05.26\00:22:08.66
and try to kill those inside
the city, the city He loves...
00:22:08.69\00:22:10.12
The fire came down from
heaven and devoured them. "
00:22:11.08\00:22:15.59
God lets them go into an
ultimate and eternal death.
00:22:15.62\00:22:19.17
Think what that is
going to be like for God -
00:22:19.20\00:22:21.25
to let a child go like that.
00:22:21.28\00:22:24.55
You know, I'm reminded of some
of these terrible atrocities,
00:22:24.58\00:22:29.82
if you will, in America, where
many people have been killed
00:22:29.85\00:22:33.38
by a person and then
their mother had to look
00:22:33.41\00:22:36.99
at their execution.
00:22:37.02\00:22:38.24
And so what you're
describing here is perhaps
00:22:38.27\00:22:40.66
God just looks at it that way.
00:22:40.69\00:22:42.02
Or He says, man, I remember
all those facial expressions
00:22:42.05\00:22:46.05
and everything when
that was just a little tyke,
00:22:46.08\00:22:47.97
and even though
they've done terrible things,
00:22:48.00\00:22:50.30
I hate to see them
have to be given up.
00:22:50.33\00:22:52.46
I understand it
but I hate to see it.
00:22:52.49\00:22:54.93
I think you're exactly right!
00:22:54.96\00:22:56.05
I think the final end
of sin and these people
00:22:56.08\00:23:00.26
that have chosen not to
be with God for eternity,
00:23:00.29\00:23:02.54
that made that
choice, throughout their life
00:23:02.57\00:23:04.65
they demonstrated
that, they settled in it.
00:23:04.68\00:23:06.99
I think that act,
that final act for God
00:23:07.02\00:23:09.47
is going to be more like a
parent laying a child to rest
00:23:09.50\00:23:13.46
for the last time, than
it is like an executioner
00:23:13.49\00:23:17.23
pulling the switch with -
okay, infinite justice - BOOM!
00:23:17.26\00:23:22.88
In fact, there's a text
that I love - Romans 14:9
00:23:22.91\00:23:26.82
Now He's Lord of the
living because He redeemed us.
00:23:36.61\00:23:39.68
He died for our sins,
He was our substitute,
00:23:39.71\00:23:42.75
and that's the
Christian doctrine of atonement,
00:23:42.78\00:23:45.29
but He is also
the Lord of the dead.
00:23:45.32\00:23:47.94
And, I had a story one
time, Don, and an experience
00:23:47.97\00:23:50.37
one time when I was
living in Salt Lake City.
00:23:50.40\00:23:52.53
I was also pastoring
our church in Provo, Utah
00:23:52.56\00:23:55.94
about 40 miles apart
and I was on my way from
00:23:55.97\00:23:58.79
the Provo Church
back up to Salt Lake City,
00:23:58.82\00:24:00.84
as I recall, it may have
been up in Salt Lake City...
00:24:00.87\00:24:03.14
But anyway, I heard a
report coming from the prison,
00:24:03.17\00:24:06.73
Salt Lake City Prison -
it was on the radio that
00:24:06.76\00:24:10.19
someone had just been
stabbed to death there...
00:24:10.22\00:24:12.30
And I recognized the name and
it was a relative of the son,
00:24:12.33\00:24:19.56
in fact, of a member
of our church in Provo.
00:24:19.59\00:24:22.22
So immediately, I
stopped whatever I was doing,
00:24:22.25\00:24:24.70
and I drove down to that home,
00:24:24.73\00:24:26.06
and when I knocked on
the door, I was thinking...
00:24:26.09\00:24:27.59
maybe it was a different
person, it wasn't that person,
00:24:27.62\00:24:30.43
we didn't have cell
phones in those days;
00:24:30.46\00:24:31.54
I couldn't call
and check it out...
00:24:31.57\00:24:33.24
So I just showed up on
the doorstep, opened the door,
00:24:33.27\00:24:34.97
and I could tell immediately
when the mother opened
00:24:35.00\00:24:37.40
the door, I could tell
by her face, it was her son.
00:24:37.43\00:24:40.97
I went in and I sat down
and I tried to say some things
00:24:41.00\00:24:44.44
and she was sitting on one sofa
00:24:44.47\00:24:45.87
and I was sitting on
the other sofa there,
00:24:45.90\00:24:47.56
and we were fairly
close to each other,
00:24:47.59\00:24:49.97
and the other daughter was
in the room and the other son...
00:24:50.00\00:24:54.57
I was TRYING to say things
that I thought would be helpful.
00:24:54.60\00:24:58.13
I was thinking about it all the
way down from Salt Lake to Provo
00:24:58.16\00:25:01.55
but, you know, it was like
my words came out of my mouth
00:25:01.58\00:25:04.36
and just froze in the air
and shattered on the ground...
00:25:04.39\00:25:06.55
And finally I just
sat there in silence;
00:25:06.58\00:25:08.81
I didn't know what
to do or what to say,
00:25:08.84\00:25:10.42
it was so awkward,
I think for everybody.
00:25:10.45\00:25:12.53
And the look in their face
was desperately pleading...
00:25:12.56\00:25:15.33
Please help us -
and I just couldn't.
00:25:15.36\00:25:17.72
And then there was
a knock at the door.
00:25:17.75\00:25:19.91
And the daughter went to open
the door and when she opened
00:25:19.94\00:25:22.58
the door, I saw through
the hallway who it was...
00:25:22.61\00:25:25.18
Instantly I recognized...
this was a mother who had
00:25:25.21\00:25:28.80
lost a son just
about the same age.
00:25:28.83\00:25:31.42
And she stepped in and when
the mother whose son had just
00:25:31.45\00:25:35.78
been stabbed, saw her,
she got up and they met in the
00:25:35.81\00:25:39.73
middle of the
room and just hugged.
00:25:39.76\00:25:42.09
For the longest
time, they just hugged.
00:25:42.12\00:25:44.20
And then they went and sat
down and in very quiet tones,
00:25:44.23\00:25:47.01
they started talking back
and forth to each other...
00:25:47.04\00:25:48.82
And I said - there it is,
that's ministry taking place.
00:25:48.85\00:25:51.28
I had not had the experience
to be able to help that person.
00:25:51.31\00:25:55.24
You know what Don,
it occurred to me -
00:25:55.27\00:25:57.05
Jesus is the Lord of
the dead and the living.
00:25:57.08\00:26:00.54
He actually passed through the
experience of the second death.
00:26:00.57\00:26:04.26
He did that as a
substitute for all of us.
00:26:04.29\00:26:06.09
But you know what else?
00:26:06.12\00:26:07.90
There's only One
Being now in the universe
00:26:07.93\00:26:12.77
who can identify
with those who actually
00:26:12.80\00:26:14.86
go through that experience.
00:26:14.89\00:26:16.11
One who can be there as almost
00:26:16.14\00:26:20.27
a minister to
them to the very last.
00:26:20.30\00:26:23.36
And in order to be
able to be a minister,
00:26:23.39\00:26:25.33
He had to earn the
ability by suffering
00:26:25.36\00:26:28.80
at the same level
they're going to suffer.
00:26:28.83\00:26:31.15
So the God of all comfort.
00:26:31.19\00:26:32.55
The God of ALL
comfort to the ultimate.
00:26:32.59\00:26:35.77
And He's the
ultimate stress manager,
00:26:35.80\00:26:38.99
and has experienced
the ultimate stress.
00:26:39.02\00:26:41.13
We've got about a minute left,
what can we say to summarize
00:26:41.16\00:26:46.23
your feeling about what you've
learned concerning divine stress
00:26:46.26\00:26:50.15
Don, several
Scriptures... Isaiah 63:9
00:26:50.18\00:26:55.11
Simply says again...
"In all their distress,
00:26:55.14\00:26:57.67
He too was distressed. "
00:26:57.70\00:27:00.81
So the depth of His distress
He identifies with our distress.
00:27:00.84\00:27:04.44
1 Peter 5:7, "We can
cast all our anxiety upon Him
00:27:04.47\00:27:07.50
because He cares for us. "
00:27:07.53\00:27:08.88
He has been through
more stress than we have.
00:27:08.91\00:27:10.59
He knows how to help us to
the ultimate, to the depth.
00:27:10.62\00:27:13.34
He suffered equally with us.
00:27:13.37\00:27:14.70
Isaiah 26:3, "That will
keep Him in perfect peace
00:27:14.73\00:27:17.58
whose mind is stayed upon thee
because he trusts in thee. "
00:27:17.61\00:27:21.01
We can just
totally trust in God.
00:27:21.04\00:27:23.77
And then there is also a focus
on - we can now be about our
00:27:23.80\00:27:27.74
Father's business which is
going to be stressful at times.
00:27:27.77\00:27:30.88
We're going to be
misunderstood at times,
00:27:30.91\00:27:32.76
and it's not going
to be an easy road.
00:27:32.79\00:27:35.06
It wasn't an easy
road for our Lord,
00:27:35.09\00:27:36.94
but He is with us
every step of the way.
00:27:36.97\00:27:38.85
He is our ultimate
counselor, our ultimate guide.
00:27:38.88\00:27:41.96
Thank you so much for sharing
that picture of Divine stress.
00:27:41.99\00:27:46.36
It gives us confidence but
it also kind of leaves us with a
00:27:46.39\00:27:49.56
decision, doesn't it?
00:27:49.59\00:27:50.92
If you have not
accepted Christ as your Savior,
00:27:50.95\00:27:54.29
why not turn to Him now?
00:27:54.32\00:27:55.63
Make the decision that can give
00:27:55.66\00:27:57.54
you Health that
Lasts for a Lifetime.
00:27:57.58\00:27:59.57