Hello and welcome to
"Health for a Lifetime"
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I'm your host Don Mackintosh,
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and today, I'm
delighted to welcome
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Dr. Hans Diehl to our program.
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Welcome Dr.
Diehl! Glad to be here.
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Today we're going to
talk about something that's
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a little different than maybe
the normal lecture that you give
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You're involved
in what's called the
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"Coronary Health Improvement
Program"... the CHIP Program
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A 30-day program
that helps people reverse
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coronary artery disease.
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You've just come out
with a new video series
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that's available for communities
where people that want to
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change... not only their
own lives, but the lives of the
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community can be
involved in that.
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But today, you want to
talk about LOVE and FORGIVENESS?
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How does that match up? YEAH...
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See, I don't think that
hardening of the arteries
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is the most devastating disease
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even though I spend a
lot of time on that... Right
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But you know, the
most devastating disease
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is really
hardening of the ATTITUDES!
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It's kind of a
spiritual atherosclerosis
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where our attitudes
get stiffened and hardened
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and we are no longer flexible
to deal with the issues of life
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in a productive manner.
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How can we know whether or not
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we're suffering
from this disease?
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Well, people will let
you know about that...
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Yes, they'll pick it up.
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You see, but many
times people don't understand
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that there's a
relationship between emotions
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and... well,
emotions and physical illness.
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You know, it seems
to be so obvious to us
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it should be, and yet many
times we didn't understand it.
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Some years back,
Dr. Harold Wolff,
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one of the Eastern Medical
Center prominent physicians,
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had a very interesting case.
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He had a patient
coming to him who had suffered
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some kind of a gun
wound to his stomach
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and somehow for some reason,
luckily for the physician,
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but maybe not quite
so lucky for the patient,
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that wound did not want to heal.
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So his stomach was
open. His stomach was open!
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And this afforded
now, this research-oriented
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scientist-physician to
have a chance to look into the
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inside of the stomach.
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So he took advantage of his bad
situation... Yes, that's right.
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Some people even
thought maybe he purposely
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did everything he could NOT
to let this wound heal too fast
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because this was a
fascinating experiment.
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This was years back
now... we had no idea
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how the stomach digests food,
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and this physician now
had an unusual opportunity
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to look into the stomach.
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Here's
something that happened...
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The patient came to him...
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The patient was irritated.
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The patient was crimson red.
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The patient was agitated!
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And the physician
does his usual thing.
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He looks into the opened
wound; into the stomach, inside,
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and what do you think he sees?
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He sees an inside
lining that is crimson red.
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It's bloated and there is
a lot of acid pouring out.
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And all of a sudden a
light goes on in the mind of
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this physician... Could
it be that this emotional
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state of that
patient, and what I see
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on the inside of the stomach...
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could there be a relationship?
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So, did it go away
when he was not upset?
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YES... when the patient
would come in to him relaxed,
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the stomach lining was relaxed.
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It wasn't that crimson red.
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There was not all
that acid pouring out.
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Everything was looking
pretty nice and fine and calm.
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As the exterior of the face,
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so the inside
lining of the stomach.
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So, we became aware
that emotions can have a
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powerful effect on
our level of health.
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This was the beginning really.
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Yes, since those
early observations,
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we NOW know that
some people can respond to
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harbored negative
emotions with asthma, migraine,
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ulcers, and even angina attacks.
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Emotions then
break down the life force
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and invite disease and death...
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OR, they can
actually promote health!
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It depends on
the kind of emotions.
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Our health and our
happiness then depend really,
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in part, on how we
react to life's challenges,
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and how we solve daily
problems... doesn't it?
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So, we're to react in
an actively positive way...
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regardless of what comes. YES!
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Well,
as-a-matter-of-fact, you know
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how we relate to
the problems of life...
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how we react to
everyday occurrences,
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determines largely HOW
well we are going to be growing.
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For instance, there are some
people, and I guess we all do it
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...we actually,
instead of WELCOMING
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facing problems in
life, and learning from that,
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we actually try to
get OUT of these problems.
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You know we have different ways,
mechanisms, of how to do this.
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Some people IGNORE the problems.
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They blame others
for their problems.
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They try to avoid problems.
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They deny that
any problem exists.
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Or, you know,
sometimes we also find ways
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like drowning these problems.
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And yet in the
process, we really only
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hurt ourselves don't we?
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Because when you solve
problems it leads to growth,
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to insight, to
character development...
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all the things
that we miss out on
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when we try to stay
away from these things.
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So put the fire out,
don't just ignore it! Yeah!
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Correct... Be
involved in the solution.
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But don't solve other
people's problems either.
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Someone once said, if
you're not part of the problem,
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then you're not part
of the solution either.
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Would that be true? Yes!
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But you see, when you don't
get involved in solving problems
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you usually lose-out on the
area of overcoming poor habits.
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Trying to deal with
some of the boredom in life,
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we begin to
stagnate, so when you say "YES"
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to problem-solving...
problems that come your way,
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you have the
opportunity for growth, insight,
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understanding, and it really
enriches our life. Doesn't it?
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Um hm... You know,
as a matter of fact,
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I have come to some interesting
conclusions.. it's probably very
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simplistic, but I have
come up with some very basic
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insight, I
guess... and that is that
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LIFE either makes you
bitter or it makes you better.
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Really! That's probably
true... Well, it IS true!
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Bitter or better...
That's a good way to put it.
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I mean we all have
disappointments in life.
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They say life is
not fair to us, right?
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I mean, that's
how the saying goes.
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So how do you react to it?
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It's going to make you bitter,
or it's going to make you better
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But, you know,
everything depends on our EGO.
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On that "I" See?
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If we feel that somebody
is trampling on OUR rights,
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"Who dares to do this to me?"
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Well... see, now
life is making you bitter
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Instead of saying...
"What can I learn from this?"
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"Why is this happening to me?"
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"Is there a
lesson in it for me?"
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Right? So change
the "I" to an "E"
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Yeah, that's
right... from bitter to better
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You see in life, it's
not so important, really,
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what happens to us in
life, but how we relate to that.
00:08:17.42\00:08:22.26
So if we become a
spiritual Unabomber,
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or a physical Unabomber,
or something, if we're bitter.
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We get upset at ourselves,
and the whole society...
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and we can be very
damaging, or it defiles many.
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The author of
Hebrews put it that way...
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it defiles all kinds of people.
00:08:38.10\00:08:39.60
So it's really essential!
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Yeah, life is going to
make us bitter or better.
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It all depends of
how we relate to it.
00:08:44.13\00:08:48.01
You know, who is
in the driver's seat?
00:08:48.02\00:08:50.40
Who was our hand? See?
00:08:50.43\00:08:53.35
Do we just think about ourselves
as the center of the universe,
00:08:53.38\00:08:57.39
and if we do, we're in trouble!
00:08:57.42\00:08:59.30
I remember some time
ago, there was a story about
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a society woman...
a high society woman.
00:09:03.07\00:09:06.14
I mean, she would
always go to this special...
00:09:06.17\00:09:09.62
not just a restaurant but
to that very special hotel.
00:09:09.65\00:09:12.70
It was the #1 hotel in New York,
00:09:12.73\00:09:14.76
and she ALWAYS would
have her hideaway there...
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One week, that
was her private time,
00:09:18.20\00:09:20.15
and nobody knew where she was.
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Nobody was SUPPOSED to
know! This was her time.
00:09:21.54\00:09:24.23
Penthouse suite, no DISTURBANCE!
00:09:24.26\00:09:26.65
I'm going to be there! MY TIME!
00:09:26.68\00:09:28.86
LEAVE EVERYBODY OUT!
And everybody knew that.
00:09:28.89\00:09:30.97
I mean everybody
respected that lady.
00:09:31.00\00:09:33.46
She was a good customer for
years, and then it happened.
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She comes to the hotel;
it's 10 o'clock at night...
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Just as she is settling in there
00:09:40.36\00:09:43.32
SOMEHOW she hears a
lot of noise, music...
00:09:43.35\00:09:49.57
somebody is playing the piano!
00:09:49.60\00:09:50.69
She is ENRAGED!
00:09:50.72\00:09:52.39
She is calling down to
the desk, and she says,
00:09:52.42\00:09:53.74
"I WANT TO SEE THE GM, the
general manager, RIGHT NOW!"
00:09:53.77\00:09:56.97
Well, you know what they do...
00:09:57.00\00:09:58.43
They called the
general manager at HOME!
00:09:58.46\00:10:00.88
"Yes Madam, I'll
be there right away. "
00:10:00.91\00:10:03.68
He gets dressed.
00:10:03.71\00:10:04.72
He dashes over to the hotel.
00:10:04.75\00:10:06.37
He goes up to the
penthouse suite...
00:10:06.40\00:10:08.24
He says, "Madam I
made a terrible mistake"
00:10:08.27\00:10:11.92
"We want to
profoundly apologize. "
00:10:11.95\00:10:14.84
"We have done the IMPOSSIBLE!"
00:10:14.87\00:10:16.99
Can I explain to you...
00:10:17.02\00:10:18.98
All the way from home...
00:10:18.99\00:10:20.98
She was a high society...
just responds to her whims
00:10:21.01\00:10:23.85
So, you know, I think
this is a good time to break.
00:10:23.88\00:10:27.62
I hope you don't mind...
because you need to come back
00:10:27.65\00:10:31.16
and hear what
happens with this lady.
00:10:31.19\00:10:33.42
Come back and join us.
00:10:33.45\00:10:37.53
Have you found yourself wishing
that you could shed a few pounds
00:10:37.56\00:10:40.22
Have you been on a
diet for most of your life,
00:10:40.25\00:10:42.85
but not found anything that
will really keep the weight off?
00:10:42.88\00:10:45.55
If you've answered "yes"
to any of these questions,
00:10:45.58\00:10:48.91
then we have a
solution for you that works!
00:10:48.94\00:10:51.59
Dr. Hans Diehl and
Dr. Aileen Ludington
00:10:51.62\00:10:54.40
have written a
marvelous booklet called
00:10:54.43\00:10:56.51
"Reversing Obesity Naturally"
00:10:56.54\00:10:58.77
and we'd like to send
it to you FREE of charge.
00:10:58.78\00:11:01.46
Here's a medically
sound approach successfully
00:11:01.49\00:11:04.02
used by thousands who are
able to eat more and lose weight
00:11:04.05\00:11:07.41
permanently without feeling
00:11:07.44\00:11:08.99
guilty or hungry
through lifestyle medicine.
00:11:09.00\00:11:12.02
Dr. Diehl and Dr. Ludington
have been featured on 3ABN
00:11:12.05\00:11:15.55
and in this booklet, they
present a sensible approach
00:11:15.58\00:11:18.44
to eating,
nutrition, and lifestyle changes
00:11:18.47\00:11:21.15
that can help you
prevent heart disease, diabetes,
00:11:21.18\00:11:23.42
and EVEN cancer.
00:11:23.43\00:11:24.52
Call or write today
for your free copy of
00:11:24.55\00:11:27.07
"Reversing Obesity Naturally"
00:11:27.10\00:11:28.67
and you could be on your
way to a healthier, happier YOU!
00:11:28.70\00:11:32.21
It's absolutely FREE of
charge, so call or write today.
00:11:32.22\00:11:38.12
Welcome back!
00:11:38.16\00:11:40.38
We've been talking
with Dr. Hans Diehl
00:11:40.41\00:11:42.55
Normally, Dr. Diehl, you talk
with us about heart disease.
00:11:42.56\00:11:45.75
Today, you're talking about
hardening of the attitudes...
00:11:45.76\00:11:48.36
Love and Forgiveness.
00:11:48.39\00:11:49.45
And at the break, you
were telling a very exciting,
00:11:49.48\00:11:52.58
interesting story about
this lady of high society
00:11:52.61\00:11:55.09
...as I recall,
correct me if I'm wrong,
00:11:55.12\00:11:56.99
she was at a very
famous hotel in New York,
00:11:57.02\00:11:59.69
and she took that week vacation,
00:11:59.72\00:12:01.67
and she liked to have
things done a certain way...
00:12:01.70\00:12:04.10
but then next door,
there was this terrible racket
00:12:04.11\00:12:06.88
of someone playing the piano...
00:12:06.89\00:12:08.31
She called the
manager; the manager comes...
00:12:08.34\00:12:10.14
And says, "We're very sorry"
and then we didn't have time
00:12:10.17\00:12:13.18
and we had to go to a
break... What happened?
00:12:13.21\00:12:14.66
You know, the manager was very,
very apologetic, obviously...
00:12:15.59\00:12:21.27
and then he said, "We
have made a TERRIBLE mistake"
00:12:21.30\00:12:29.48
We SOMEHOW placed
Arthur Rubinstein next to you
00:12:29.49\00:12:36.07
because that was the only place
where we have the grand piano.
00:12:36.08\00:12:39.51
You mean THE Arthur Rubinstein?
THE ARTHUR RUBINSTEIN!
00:12:39.54\00:12:42.59
All of a sudden, this woman
said ARTHUR RUBINSTEIN... THE
00:12:42.62\00:12:48.69
And all of a sudden,
she wanted NOTHING more BUT
00:12:48.72\00:12:52.20
to be ALLOWED to go next door
00:12:52.23\00:12:54.60
and to sit at the
feet at the master
00:12:54.61\00:12:57.65
and she sat there for hours...
00:12:57.68\00:12:59.61
And when she got back home,
00:12:59.64\00:13:01.50
she would tell all of
her friends that she was
00:13:01.53\00:13:03.30
the special guest
of Arthur Rubinstein.
00:13:03.31\00:13:05.48
Everything had to do
with attitude, huh...
00:13:05.51\00:13:07.43
It was ATTITUDE! RESPECTED!
00:13:07.46\00:13:09.12
It was the same
person... It was the same music,
00:13:09.13\00:13:11.02
but BEFORE, it
was noise and racket,
00:13:11.05\00:13:13.36
and now it was heavenly music.
00:13:13.39\00:13:15.88
What made the difference?
00:13:15.91\00:13:17.21
I suppose it was the
perspective of knowing
00:13:17.24\00:13:20.96
what she was involved in,
00:13:20.99\00:13:22.19
and changing the attitude;
but let me ask you a question...
00:13:22.22\00:13:25.34
Is it true then, would
you say that we need to
00:13:25.38\00:13:27.02
have a bigger perspective.
00:13:27.05\00:13:29.34
We need to maybe
surrender some of our rights
00:13:29.37\00:13:31.33
until we have the whole
picture... What would you say?
00:13:31.36\00:13:33.26
Yeah, I think as long as
we think of our RIGHTS...
00:13:34.04\00:13:37.86
I have a RIGHT... How
can they do this to me?
00:13:37.89\00:13:40.10
We have a tendency
to go on the pity pot.
00:13:40.13\00:13:42.69
Why me? Poor me.
00:13:42.72\00:13:44.58
And when that happens,
00:13:44.61\00:13:45.70
that opens up then the doors
to ALL these negative emotions.
00:13:45.73\00:13:50.28
It opens up the doors to
resentment, to bitterness,
00:13:50.31\00:13:54.07
to anger, to hatred.
00:13:54.10\00:13:56.04
You know the guilt, and
actually you become ENSLAVED.
00:13:56.07\00:14:01.31
Right? And to think that this is
00:14:01.34\00:14:03.10
all related to the spiritual
atherosclerosis.. poor attitudes
00:14:03.13\00:14:09.34
They begin now to
block... It's a clot!
00:14:09.37\00:14:12.05
Yeah, they BLOCK the channels
of communication. Right?
00:14:12.08\00:14:18.67
It's a
spiritual atherosclerosis,
00:14:18.70\00:14:21.11
and oftentimes, it becomes
almost like a spiritual cancer
00:14:21.14\00:14:23.83
that is growing.
00:14:23.86\00:14:25.58
And in the
process, we talk about
00:14:25.61\00:14:27.47
people that look like prunes...
00:14:27.50\00:14:29.27
You know, I mean they
shrivel up from the inside out.
00:14:29.30\00:14:33.07
So what can we do, doctor?
00:14:33.10\00:14:34.79
What can we do...
00:14:34.82\00:14:36.50
Well, maybe I can
tell you another story from
00:14:36.53\00:14:40.60
what happens sometimes
in our professional lives.
00:14:40.63\00:14:46.31
I had a woman come to me
one time, and I was seeing some
00:14:46.34\00:14:50.55
people in counseling.
00:14:50.58\00:14:55.43
And this woman came to me
00:14:55.46\00:14:56.76
because of her
overeating problem.
00:14:56.79\00:14:59.71
She said that she would go into
00:14:59.74\00:15:02.39
binges and she just
couldn't control herself.
00:15:02.42\00:15:04.85
And so I was taking just a very
careful inventory of her life,
00:15:04.88\00:15:08.17
and I wasn't even halfway
through the 10 minute interview,
00:15:08.20\00:15:12.56
to do that part of our
program, when she blurted out...
00:15:12.59\00:15:16.36
"AND HE DID THIS TO ME!"
00:15:16.39\00:15:18.19
And I looked at her, and I said
00:15:18.20\00:15:19.47
What do you mean,
"He did this to me?"
00:15:19.50\00:15:21.88
"SHE DID IT TO ME!"
00:15:21.91\00:15:23.73
And I looked at her, and
all of a sudden I realized
00:15:23.74\00:15:26.23
there was a problem here.
00:15:26.26\00:15:27.48
And then it came out...
00:15:27.51\00:15:28.97
She said, "This woman
betrayed the professional trust
00:15:29.00\00:15:37.02
between herself, as a nurse,
00:15:37.05\00:15:38.63
and MY husband, a
cardiovascular surgeon. "
00:15:38.66\00:15:43.32
An affair or something... Affair
00:15:43.35\00:15:45.80
And I was stunned at
the response, and then I was
00:15:45.81\00:15:50.56
even more stunned
when I asked her...
00:15:50.59\00:15:51.71
"And when did this
happen; is this still going on?"
00:15:51.74\00:15:54.05
She said, "NO, it
was 13 years ago!"
00:15:54.08\00:15:56.29
And I thought to
myself... 13 years ago,
00:15:56.32\00:15:59.08
and this woman is still
distressed, still focused
00:15:59.11\00:16:04.75
on that particular tragedy.
00:16:04.78\00:16:09.27
You know, we don't want
to brush over that, really.
00:16:09.30\00:16:13.35
What the people did was wrong.
00:16:13.38\00:16:15.34
What the people did was
wrong, it HURT obviously.
00:16:15.37\00:16:18.47
But harboring these
emotions of hurt for 13 years,
00:16:18.50\00:16:22.92
I mean, did this really improve
00:16:22.95\00:16:24.67
her marriage
relationship to her husband?
00:16:24.70\00:16:26.20
It doesn't sound like it.
00:16:26.23\00:16:27.27
It sounds like it
added some pounds to her.
00:16:27.28\00:16:30.24
YEAH! As-a-matter-of-fact,
when I talked with her
00:16:30.27\00:16:32.16
she said, "I know
everything about that woman. "
00:16:32.19\00:16:34.21
"I know how heavy she is.
I know what she's wearing"
00:16:34.24\00:16:36.74
"I know where she's at. "
00:16:36.77\00:16:37.99
This woman became this
person's EMOTIONAL FOCUS.
00:16:38.02\00:16:42.61
So she was enslaved to that
00:16:42.62\00:16:43.98
situation...
Yeah, she was enslaved.
00:16:44.01\00:16:45.30
Instead of moving on
and developing, perhaps
00:16:45.34\00:16:49.42
a new understanding of
herself, and her husband,
00:16:49.45\00:16:51.62
and perhaps beginning to
see how can we connect better
00:16:51.63\00:16:55.89
so that we have a solid
relationship... what can we do
00:16:55.92\00:16:58.58
No, she became a totally focused
person on the other person,
00:16:58.61\00:17:02.59
and thus, and here's
what she said in notes
00:17:02.62\00:17:05.60
that I took down... I
brought them with me here.
00:17:05.63\00:17:07.70
She said, "When I
finally gained some insight,
00:17:07.73\00:17:13.48
here's what I learned...
00:17:13.49\00:17:15.29
The moment I started to hate
that woman, I became her slave"
00:17:15.32\00:17:20.96
"I couldn't
enjoy my work anymore
00:17:20.97\00:17:23.74
because she
controlled my thoughts. "
00:17:23.75\00:17:26.27
"I became fatigued. "
00:17:26.28\00:17:27.93
"The work I once
enjoyed became drudgery. "
00:17:27.96\00:17:30.24
"Even vacations
ceased to be joy. "
00:17:30.27\00:17:33.81
"I could not escape her
tyrannical grasp on my mind
00:17:33.84\00:17:38.46
until I focused on my life and
what I was going to do with it"
00:17:38.49\00:17:42.31
That's pretty
powerful, isn't it?
00:17:42.34\00:17:43.60
So she was
enslaved by that person,
00:17:43.63\00:17:45.83
and so she understood
what the problem really was.
00:17:45.86\00:17:48.40
She gained that insight.
00:17:48.43\00:17:50.91
That was very, very powerful.
00:17:50.94\00:17:53.11
You see, now life was no longer
necessarily the BITTER pill...
00:17:53.14\00:17:59.17
But she related now in a
more BETTER understanding.
00:17:59.20\00:18:02.64
Yes, life was difficult,
but she began to relate to it,
00:18:02.67\00:18:06.22
and out of that
came that insight,
00:18:06.25\00:18:08.48
and greater self-understanding,
00:18:08.51\00:18:10.80
greater sensitivity towards
these kind of issues in life,
00:18:10.83\00:18:14.39
personal growth, more
communication skills perhaps,
00:18:14.42\00:18:19.42
and a new form of freedom.
00:18:19.45\00:18:22.78
Do you find this a lot
in the classes you teach;
00:18:22.81\00:18:25.38
for instance, your CHIP
program, different things
00:18:25.41\00:18:27.09
Are there
underlying problems that really
00:18:27.12\00:18:29.88
you sense you're dealing with?
00:18:29.91\00:18:30.95
I think you're on a
very good track there,
00:18:30.98\00:18:35.88
go a little bit further.
00:18:35.91\00:18:37.81
Well, you know, the
programs that you run as
00:18:37.84\00:18:41.45
helping people
with heart disease,
00:18:41.48\00:18:43.04
and all these different things,
00:18:43.07\00:18:44.24
do you find, when you
really get to know the people
00:18:44.27\00:18:47.06
personally, which probably you
can't with the AMOUNT of people
00:18:47.09\00:18:50.00
...that there really are
some of these issues like
00:18:50.03\00:18:52.31
this lady was
focusing underneath?
00:18:52.34\00:18:54.21
I think so... you know
particularly when it comes to
00:18:54.24\00:18:58.08
obesity... particularly
with ladies in our society.
00:18:58.11\00:19:04.08
They oftentimes have been
abused verbally or otherwise
00:19:04.11\00:19:08.78
by usually relatives, loved
ones marriage relationships...
00:19:08.79\00:19:13.91
And it's not just good enough
to help them to understand
00:19:13.94\00:19:18.80
how to better choose food,
00:19:18.83\00:19:20.43
and how to get on
an exercise program;
00:19:20.46\00:19:21.76
but it also is
important to begin to look
00:19:21.77\00:19:23.80
for these blockages.
00:19:23.83\00:19:25.36
The blockages in the arteries;
the channels of communication
00:19:25.39\00:19:29.59
...to feel that
you are worthwhile,
00:19:29.62\00:19:32.36
that you have self-esteem
in SPITE of how people
00:19:32.37\00:19:35.52
may have abused or treated you.
00:19:35.55\00:19:37.66
So, we've gotten the
spiritual blood work back.
00:19:37.67\00:19:40.61
We've had a diagnosis now.
00:19:40.64\00:19:42.50
We've seen that the
problem is hardening of the
00:19:42.51\00:19:44.73
spiritual arteries or attitudes.
00:19:44.76\00:19:46.73
What would you
say the treatment is?
00:19:46.76\00:19:49.55
You know, the treatment is
probably not always an easy one.
00:19:49.58\00:19:55.66
And there are probably different
aspects to the treatment.
00:19:55.69\00:19:59.84
But I think one of the key
ingredients would have to be
00:19:59.87\00:20:03.02
to help people understand
that you can only go from
00:20:03.05\00:20:06.77
resentment and bitterness
to insight and understanding
00:20:06.80\00:20:10.12
and growth... through
the dynamic of being willing
00:20:10.13\00:20:13.43
to forgive and to accept.
00:20:13.46\00:20:16.38
Forgiveness and acceptance...
forgiveness and acceptance,
00:20:16.41\00:20:19.04
and sometimes we have to
learn to forgive ourselves,
00:20:19.07\00:20:22.56
and sometimes we have to
be willing to forgive OTHERS
00:20:22.59\00:20:26.22
who may have done this to us...
00:20:26.23\00:20:28.36
But if we were in their
shoes, maybe we'd understand
00:20:28.39\00:20:31.84
WHY this actually happened.
00:20:31.87\00:20:33.86
And sometimes we have to
also find the forgiveness
00:20:33.89\00:20:37.11
by going to a Higher Source.
00:20:37.14\00:20:39.04
Sometimes it takes GOD
to come into a person's life
00:20:39.07\00:20:42.89
that can now provide that
ultimate source of healing
00:20:42.90\00:20:47.61
by saying, "Yes, I'll give
you the strength and the power
00:20:47.64\00:20:52.27
and the faith to do that
which is humanly oftentimes
00:20:52.30\00:20:59.22
next to impossible to do, and
that is to forgive somebody else
00:20:59.25\00:21:02.16
Would you say everyone has
to come to this understanding
00:21:02.19\00:21:05.48
of forgiveness and acceptance,
00:21:05.51\00:21:06.87
and it's something everyone
has to come to terms with?
00:21:06.90\00:21:09.02
It is a human
condition isn't it?
00:21:09.05\00:21:12.67
We ALL do things
wrong... All of us.
00:21:12.68\00:21:16.24
So we have to
learn to maybe not just
00:21:16.27\00:21:20.03
forgive ourselves
but to find that Power...
00:21:20.04\00:21:24.35
To find that GOD who is
there who says, "I'm love, and
00:21:24.36\00:21:28.58
I'm FORGIVING you...
00:21:28.61\00:21:31.49
And to give us
the strength to go on,
00:21:31.52\00:21:33.28
and then we FALL again, right?
00:21:33.31\00:21:35.15
Well look, I
forgave you once, that's it!
00:21:35.18\00:21:37.88
No, no, no, no,
no We are growing,
00:21:37.91\00:21:41.76
and we get
stronger every time...
00:21:41.79\00:21:43.72
And so out of that
sense of knowing that someone
00:21:43.75\00:21:46.51
is forgiving us on the
human level and on the,
00:21:46.54\00:21:48.80
shall we say,
the vertical level.
00:21:48.83\00:21:50.85
It comes in the strength
that we become more open
00:21:50.88\00:21:53.05
to forgive others.
00:21:53.08\00:21:54.80
So really, when we're
helping people with health,
00:21:54.83\00:21:57.61
or we're helping
them with these issues,
00:21:57.64\00:21:59.56
it's really coming down to this
core blockage - forgiveness.
00:21:59.57\00:22:04.21
It really is... I mean, you
can eat all the alfalfa sprouts
00:22:04.24\00:22:08.02
you want... you can do
all the exercise you want,
00:22:08.05\00:22:10.41
but if you HATE that
person that is in your life,
00:22:10.44\00:22:12.97
do you have health?
00:22:13.00\00:22:14.21
No... see. And so that's where
00:22:14.24\00:22:17.64
I think we have to deal
with the atherosclerosis
00:22:17.67\00:22:21.60
of the spiritual area.
00:22:21.63\00:22:26.77
We have to take care of
the hardening of our attitudes.
00:22:26.80\00:22:30.96
And life has a
tendency to harden us somehow...
00:22:30.99\00:22:33.89
almost we do it to
protect ourselves, but really,
00:22:33.92\00:22:37.50
in the process, we lose out
00:22:37.51\00:22:39.32
from the richness of
life that comes to us.
00:22:39.35\00:22:41.97
When you begin your
programs, your health programs,
00:22:42.00\00:22:44.35
your CHIP Program... I believe
it's like a 30-day program;
00:22:44.38\00:22:47.38
you don't start
out with this though.
00:22:47.41\00:22:49.37
Where does this come?
00:22:49.40\00:22:51.11
This usually comes
towards the end of the program,
00:22:51.14\00:22:55.06
and that's when
people come and say,
00:22:55.09\00:22:56.71
"We enjoyed the presentations
about health, how to lose
00:22:56.74\00:23:01.02
weight, how to bring
our blood pressure down. "
00:23:01.05\00:23:02.79
"We learned how to
lower our cholesterol,
00:23:02.82\00:23:04.92
and have less angina pain;
00:23:04.95\00:23:06.36
these are WONDERFUL
discoveries for us!"
00:23:06.39\00:23:09.46
And we have become
involved in implementing those,
00:23:09.49\00:23:12.27
BUT the most important part
of the program, to some of us,
00:23:12.30\00:23:15.96
has been how to let go of these
resentments, the bitterness.
00:23:15.99\00:23:21.40
I mean, think about that...
00:23:21.41\00:23:22.92
We still shoot arrows of
ACID at people that have died
00:23:22.95\00:23:29.58
years ago... we still HATE them!
00:23:29.61\00:23:32.53
And you see, WE become our
own prisoner... That's right
00:23:32.56\00:23:38.07
So, let's talk
about that situation
00:23:38.10\00:23:43.31
that you've talked about.
00:23:43.34\00:23:44.34
That's a very difficult
situation where someone
00:23:44.37\00:23:46.68
that, maybe a parent,
maybe a father, maybe a mother,
00:23:46.71\00:23:49.74
maybe an aunt and
uncle or someone else
00:23:49.77\00:23:51.68
that has really hurt
us, and we have cause...
00:23:51.71\00:23:54.64
we think to be bitter, has died.
00:23:54.67\00:23:56.46
How in the world would
you help someone when they
00:23:56.49\00:23:58.53
can't go back and close that?
00:23:58.56\00:24:01.10
It's very difficult, isn't it?
00:24:01.13\00:24:03.02
I think you have to find a
substitute, for the parents,
00:24:03.05\00:24:07.04
lets say, in this example.
00:24:07.07\00:24:08.67
You have to find someone
that you can relate to...
00:24:08.68\00:24:10.60
Maybe it's a
clergyman, maybe it's a
00:24:10.63\00:24:14.04
professional counselor
that can stand in the part...
00:24:14.07\00:24:19.67
be in the boots of that
person that has harmed you,
00:24:19.70\00:24:23.18
and you can now unload perhaps,
00:24:23.21\00:24:25.85
but you can also come
to grips with the fact...
00:24:25.88\00:24:28.82
Well... maybe my
parents did the very best
00:24:28.85\00:24:34.58
as they understood it.
00:24:34.61\00:24:37.10
You see, I don't think
that I've been raised perfectly,
00:24:37.13\00:24:39.93
and I think most
people feel that way...
00:24:39.96\00:24:41.73
But I have to believe, in
my heart, that MY dear mother
00:24:41.76\00:24:45.53
and father have been
their very best as they
00:24:45.56\00:24:47.91
understood it at the time.
00:24:47.94\00:24:49.51
And therefore, it softens in
my heart, and I begin to assume
00:24:49.54\00:24:53.72
responsibility for my own
life instead of trying to blame
00:24:53.75\00:24:55.93
it on background.
00:24:55.96\00:24:58.81
And even IF we
can't seem to do that,
00:24:58.84\00:25:01.79
there's the Christian
religion, baptism, foot-washing,
00:25:01.82\00:25:05.31
these are very healing times...
00:25:05.34\00:25:07.77
where we can wash that away.
00:25:07.80\00:25:09.31
That's been my experience.
00:25:09.34\00:25:11.33
Yeah.. that's very good.
00:25:11.36\00:25:12.42
You know, I read the story,
one time, about a Mrs. Hannah
00:25:12.45\00:25:16.14
who had lost the most precious
of all of her possessions
00:25:16.17\00:25:19.30
that she still
had... her own daughter.
00:25:19.33\00:25:21.57
She had been
murdered in cold blood.
00:25:21.60\00:25:24.50
The man was
sentenced to prison for life,
00:25:24.53\00:25:27.33
but that wasn't the
end for Mrs. Hannah...
00:25:27.36\00:25:29.42
Every day she would
have her daily routine
00:25:29.45\00:25:31.77
that she would go into
her basement of her house;
00:25:31.80\00:25:33.52
the picture was
there on the dartboard,
00:25:33.55\00:25:34.99
and she would throw these darts!
00:25:35.02\00:25:37.84
Did that solve the problem?
00:25:37.87\00:25:39.00
It just probably fed it. Yeah...
00:25:39.03\00:25:42.03
And then one day, a
Gideon would come to her house,
00:25:42.06\00:25:44.78
you know, a Bible...
And they'd bring one. Yes!
00:25:44.81\00:25:47.41
And he said, "Would you
be willing to sign this Bible
00:25:47.44\00:25:52.64
because we want to
take it to the prison. "
00:25:52.67\00:25:54.73
Oh, she was infuriated!
00:25:54.76\00:25:57.24
She was INCENSED that
anybody could be so insensitive;
00:25:57.27\00:25:59.93
after all, her
daughter had been killed!
00:25:59.96\00:26:03.04
And now what happened is
00:26:03.05\00:26:05.60
the Gideon said to
her, while leaving,
00:26:05.63\00:26:08.47
"Mrs. Hannah, how can
God forgive us, if we cannot
00:26:08.48\00:26:13.39
forgive others. "
00:26:13.42\00:26:15.88
That's exactly what she
needed to hear... wasn't it?
00:26:15.91\00:26:17.97
That was very painful.
00:26:18.00\00:26:20.63
She probably
prayed about that...
00:26:20.66\00:26:22.24
and over the next 8, 9, 10 weeks
00:26:22.27\00:26:23.86
she came to the conclusion
that she had to do that.
00:26:23.89\00:26:27.53
She called him up, he came,
and she wrote into the Bible
00:26:27.56\00:26:30.77
"Mrs. Hannah loves you. "
00:26:30.80\00:26:34.00
Wow, that was a major
breakthrough for her, wasn't it?
00:26:34.03\00:26:37.46
It was THE breakthrough.
00:26:37.49\00:26:39.32
He takes the Bible back...
00:26:39.35\00:26:40.65
The prisoner sees the
handwriting, breaks down
00:26:40.68\00:26:44.49
and says, "I have never
been loved in my whole life. "
00:26:44.52\00:26:47.13
I was an orphan.
00:26:47.16\00:26:50.89
And it turned the
life around of this man...
00:26:50.92\00:26:53.19
who now becomes a
chaplain in that prison.
00:26:53.22\00:26:56.58
And Mrs. Hannah, her
life is changed now too.
00:26:56.61\00:26:59.92
Because the
prisoner was really herself!
00:26:59.95\00:27:04.05
Do you see?
00:27:04.08\00:27:05.24
And so forgiveness
restores relationships.
00:27:05.25\00:27:10.19
Boy, that's almost the same
story as the Gospel, isn't it?
00:27:10.22\00:27:13.10
"He gave His only
begotten Son that whosoever
00:27:13.13\00:27:17.46
believes will not perish,
but have everlasting life. "
00:27:17.49\00:27:20.66
Forgiveness sends a letter
to us... says "I love you,
00:27:20.69\00:27:24.35
even though you killed My Son. "
00:27:24.38\00:27:26.46
We've been talking
with Dr. Hans Diehl.
00:27:26.49\00:27:28.21
We've been talking
about heart disease...
00:27:28.24\00:27:29.79
not just of our literal heart,
but also of our spiritual heart.
00:27:29.82\00:27:33.32
We have seen that there are
problems with our attitudes.
00:27:33.35\00:27:37.57
There's
bitterness that we foster.
00:27:37.60\00:27:39.88
Dr. Diehl has reminded us
that we can move from bitterness
00:27:39.91\00:27:42.79
to BETTERNESS by looking at
forgiveness and acceptance...
00:27:42.82\00:27:47.97
And if we do this, maybe
right now if you're watching the
00:27:48.00\00:27:51.20
program and you say,
"Look, I need to do that"
00:27:51.23\00:27:53.60
I encourage you to just
send up a prayer right now
00:27:53.63\00:27:56.49
and you'll have health
not only for here and now,
00:27:56.52\00:27:59.47
but for a lifetime!
00:27:59.50\00:28:01.31