Hello friends, grab
your Bible and a friend,
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and sit back as we
explore God's Word together
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on this edition of House calls.
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Welcome to the House
Calls, program of the day.
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This is the one that
you need to stay tuned into.
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I'm John Lomacang.
And I am not a robot.
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That's my non
robotic friend over there.
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John Stanton, good
to have you here, John.
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It's good to be here again.
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And the Word of God
is a wonderful place
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to spend an hour.
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And we thank you for
tuning in to join us to do that.
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As you know we have
Bible questions and comments
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and we are hoping today
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to finish our
topic on discipleship.
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That's right.
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Discipleship is
something that needs to be
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focused on even more.
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Give us a preview,
where we're headed today
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in this topic of discipleship.
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Well, this last program
we're going to be talking about
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the four areas of the
disciple making matrix.
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In other words, this is
what the church should be doing,
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how it should organize,
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to build a
culture of discipleship,
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and help to
really equip, and train,
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and make disciples
as Christ asked us to.
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Okay, wonderful,
wonderful. Thank you, John.
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And as you know, we don't do
anything here without prayer.
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And John always begins on air.
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I pray off the air,
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just in case you
wonder if I pray.
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And he's going
to pray on the air.
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John, so take us to
the throne of grace.
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Okay.
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Father, we do
come with confidence
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to Your throne of grace.
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Asking for grace and help
in our time of need right now
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on this program.
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We invite Your
Spirit to be here with us,
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and to touch our
hearts, and our minds,
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so that we
might hear Your voice,
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and that we
might share the truths
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that You have in Your word.
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We pray that it will touch
the hearts and minds out there
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as well that we all
might receive conviction
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and conversion to follow
you in Jesus' name, amen.
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Amen. Thank you, John.
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And as you know your
questions that we get,
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we have some more today.
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We're going to address
those and your comments
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are vitally important.
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You can send those to
the address on the screen
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housecalls@3abn.org.
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That's housecalls@3abn.org.
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And we do appreciate it,
very much for your prayers
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and also your financial
support of this network,
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as we go and grow getting ready
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for the coming of
our Lord and Savior.
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Questions are important, John.
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So what's the first
one out of the chute
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that you have for us today.
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Yeah, I have a
question from Mark.
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And he says here, "Hey guys,
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I have a question about
Jude 14, Zachariah 14:5,
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Deuteronomy 33:2,
1 Thessalonians 3:13
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and Revelation 19:1.
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And by the way
there is a specific point
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about these verses,
he wants to bring up.
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He said the first four
verses points to the saints
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coming with the Lord.
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That's right.
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The last verse
refers to people in heaven.
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Can you explain?
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I've heard that the
word saints in these verses
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can be translated as angels.
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I'm not necessarily
in agreement with that
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but we'll take a look.
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Let me know what you find.
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And so I'm going
to read a couple of,
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maybe you can
read a couple of them,
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then we can dive right in. Okay.
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You want to do that? Sure.
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Okay, I'm going to read Jude 14
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and maybe you can
pick up Zachariah 14:5.
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All right, I'll do that.
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And then I'll read
1 Thessalonians 3:13
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and you can
read Revelation 19:1.
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Okay, Jude 14 is, it
says this, "Now Enoch,
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the seventh from Adam,
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prophesied about
these men also saying,
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behold the Lord
comes with ten thousand,
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with ten
thousands of His saints."
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Okay, so Jesus is coming
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with ten
thousands of His saints.
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What do you have
there from Zechariah 14:5?
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Zechariah 14:5,
"Then you shall flee
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through my mountain valley,
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for the mountain
valley shall reach to Azel.
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Yes, you shall flee.
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As you fled from the earthquake,
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in the days of Uzziah,
King of Judah, thus the Lord,
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my God will come and
all the saints with you."
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Okay.
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Okay, and then 1
Thessalonians 3:13,
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"So that He may
establish your hearts blameless
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in the holiness
before our God and Father,
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at the coming of
our Lord Jesus Christ,
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with all His saints."
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Okay.
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Now the text that you
just read in Thessalonians
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coming with His saints is
different from coming for.
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That's right.
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Yeah, we're definitely
going to distinguish that here.
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You're going to address that.
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We just wanted to read the text
and then we can go from there.
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Revelation 19:1, I
think was the last one.
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I can read that
if you want. Sure.
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It says, "After these
things, I heard a loud voice
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of a great multitude in
heaven, saying, "Hallelujah!
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Salvation and glory
and the honor and power
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belong to the Lord our God."
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It talks about
a great multitude.
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They're not
necessarily the saints,
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but a great multitude.
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They're saying,
hallelujah. Okay.
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So we have several verses here
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about Jesus'
coming with His saints.
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We also know and I'm
sure the viewer here,
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the one that sent in
this question is aware
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that the
scripture also talks about
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Jesus coming for His saints.
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In fact, it's one
of the distinctions
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that is not clear to some
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who are teaching a wrong thing
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in regard to 1 Thessalonians 4,
which I think it's in verse 14,
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"For if we believe that
Jesus died and rose again,
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even so God will bring with
him those who sleep in Jesus."
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And they read that and they say,
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"Well, see this definitely
is the second coming."
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What follows here and
Jesus is bringing His saints.
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But if you look carefully,
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that verse and to
your point earlier,
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it says here that
God, that is the Father,
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brings Jesus up to
heaven with His saints.
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That means Jesus has
come down to get them.
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That's right.
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So this is not Jesus coming
from heaven with His Saints,
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but Jesus coming down,
because God said, go get them.
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His Father said, go
get them. Jesus comes down.
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Has the resurrection,
calls those who are alive
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at that resurrection to
Him, to meet Him in the air.
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And then He takes
them back to heaven,
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having His Father
receive all of them together.
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That's right. Okay.
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So that's the
passage that sometimes gets
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a lot of confusion
here which is probably
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what led to this question
with regard to the other ones.
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Now this whole saint idea,
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the saint and
angel interchangeable.
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Revelation 8:3, just to show you
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that they are not speaking
about saints in the sense of...
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Because when you look at
the New Testament church,
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Paul mentioned
this, greet the saints,
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especially those who
are of Caesar's household.
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Saints were the term or
word used for those converted.
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Those that
decided to follow the way.
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And the Bible talked about
the way in the Book of Acts,
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the way, Jesus is the
Way, the truth and the life.
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And so instead of saying
Jesus, 'cause Jesus said,
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I am the way to be
culvert, and to be somewhat
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camouflaged in their approach.
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I sense it's the
real Midwest word,
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to be camouflaged
in their approach,
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so that they were not seen
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as divisive by
the Jewish leaders,
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which in fact they
didn't like Christianity.
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Saints were the ones that
decided to follow the way.
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Instead of
saying following Jesus,
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they decided to follow the way.
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But Revelation 8:3 shows you
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that saints and
angels are not the same.
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Revelation 8:3,
"Then another angel,
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having a golden censer
came and stood at the altar.
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He was given much
incense that he should offer it
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with the prayers
of all the saints
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upon the golden altar,
which is before the throne."
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So the saints are the
ones that are praying.
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Those are, that's us.
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We're praying, and
the altar of incense
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which was in the compartment
just before the Most Holy Place
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right before the curtain there,
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the incense that
continued to rise
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represents the Israelites,
their prayers going up
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before God day and night.
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The saints, and
it says in verse 4,
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"And the smoke of the incense
with the prayers of the saints
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ascended before God
from the angel's hand."
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And so the angel
simply having the incense is,
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the incense is representing
in the hand of the angel,
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the prayers of the saints.
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Angels and saints are
not used in the same context.
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Sometimes angels are
called into existence beings.
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Saints are those who
were created and procreated
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from parent, to
parent, to parent, to parent
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from generation to generation.
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So saints are
primarily a term or word used
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to describe Christians
rather than to describe angels.
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Which is why Paul
refers to the church
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as the saints many
times in his writings as well,
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as do the other
writers of the epistles
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that we find in
the New Testament.
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Now just to
answer this question,
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I think some of
the confusion here,
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because there are verses
that he mentions here clearly
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that say, "Jesus
comes with His saints."
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There is some
confusion as to the fact
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that the Bible doesn't
just describe the second coming.
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It describes a third
coming. That's right.
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And the third coming is
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with the saints
from heaven downward.
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The second coming is Him coming
and taking the saints upward
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to heaven with Him.
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And these things
are described clearly
00:10:07.50\00:10:09.60
in Revelation
beginning with verse 19
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all the way
through verse 21, even 22.
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Revelation is written
for a lot of part as a story.
00:10:17.78\00:10:21.28
What you'll find
in Revelation 15:16
00:10:21.32\00:10:23.59
is introduction of
the seven last plagues.
00:10:23.62\00:10:26.76
17 and 18 is the
judgment of the great harlot.
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This antichrist
power that identifies it,
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as well as the
judgment that comes upon it.
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That judgment
culminates in chapter 19,
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Revelation 19 with the
second coming of Jesus.
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That's right.
00:10:42.97\00:10:44.31
And then in Revelation 20,
00:10:44.34\00:10:45.71
what you'll find
there are two resurrections.
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You'll find a second
death, a Judgment Seat of Christ
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at the third coming
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when the New
Jerusalem has come down.
00:10:53.78\00:10:55.72
So what you find laid out here
is a very careful assessment,
00:10:55.75\00:11:00.52
description of what
is going to come about.
00:11:00.56\00:11:02.99
That's right.
00:11:03.02\00:11:04.39
And if you don't
understand that sequence,
00:11:04.43\00:11:08.16
you get confused by
the text here and there
00:11:08.20\00:11:10.50
that talks about Jesus
coming with the saints.
00:11:10.53\00:11:12.17
That's right.
00:11:12.20\00:11:13.54
Anytime it says, Jesus coming
with His saints from heaven
00:11:13.57\00:11:15.34
is not describing
the second coming,
00:11:15.37\00:11:16.77
it's describing
the third coming.
00:11:16.81\00:11:19.67
And that third coming
in Revelation is found
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in Revelation 20
and 21, mostly 21
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because it talks there
about the New Jerusalem
00:11:27.88\00:11:29.58
coming down
there with the saints.
00:11:29.62\00:11:32.95
And then, of course,
the end of 20 talks about
00:11:32.99\00:11:34.62
the judgment that
occurs of the wicked
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who have been
raised at that time.
00:11:36.32\00:11:37.66
That's right.
00:11:37.69\00:11:39.26
And it also, and the Bible
also talks about the graves
00:11:39.29\00:11:42.23
being opened at the
crucifixion of Jesus.
00:11:42.26\00:11:45.03
And it says, and
the bodies of the saints
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who had fallen
asleep were raised.
00:11:47.97\00:11:50.37
Well, angels never fell asleep.
00:11:50.41\00:11:53.41
Angels never died.
00:11:53.44\00:11:54.78
So when you look at the
words in the Book of Psalms,
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all through the Bible,
00:11:59.25\00:12:00.58
saints always
associate with humanity,
00:12:00.62\00:12:03.49
not with called into existence
beings as the angels were.
00:12:03.52\00:12:07.99
Yes. Anything
else, John, on that?
00:12:08.02\00:12:09.49
No, I think that's it.
00:12:09.52\00:12:10.86
Let's go to Jeremiah now,
00:12:10.89\00:12:13.46
because this
gentleman asked the question.
00:12:13.50\00:12:16.43
Todd, he asked the
question about Jeremiah 25:33.
00:12:16.46\00:12:21.87
He says, "So where does
Jeremiah 25:33 come into play.
00:12:21.90\00:12:26.07
I'm confused.
00:12:26.11\00:12:27.44
Can someone show me
some scripture to clear out
00:12:27.48\00:12:31.58
this
misunderstanding I'm having here
00:12:31.61\00:12:34.12
over the rapture,
00:12:34.15\00:12:36.55
the evil living being destroyed,
00:12:36.58\00:12:39.55
and the good living
going on with Christ
00:12:39.59\00:12:43.12
on a thousand years Sabbath?"
00:12:43.16\00:12:46.09
Jeremiah 25:33.
00:12:46.13\00:12:51.27
Okay, Jeremiah 25:33,
speaking about this primarily,
00:12:51.30\00:12:58.91
it's talking about, what happens
00:12:58.94\00:13:01.18
at the second coming of Jesus.
00:13:01.21\00:13:02.98
And by the way
there is no rapture,
00:13:03.01\00:13:07.32
there is no secret rapture.
00:13:07.35\00:13:09.48
I think it's Psalms 25.
00:13:09.52\00:13:12.39
Let me look that
up very quickly here.
00:13:12.42\00:13:14.26
There is no such
thing as a secret rapture.
00:13:14.29\00:13:16.56
The Lord is not coming to...
00:13:16.59\00:13:19.59
Let me put it here.
00:13:19.63\00:13:20.96
I want to get this
very quickly for you.
00:13:21.00\00:13:23.33
That there is no, the
word rapture in the Bible,
00:13:23.37\00:13:28.90
if there's any word
that's even close to it,
00:13:28.94\00:13:30.54
it's the word
from 1 Thessalonians 4,
00:13:30.57\00:13:33.31
which is caught up.
00:13:33.34\00:13:34.94
When Christ comes, He
will catch them to meet Him,
00:13:34.98\00:13:37.65
catch them up to
meet them in the air.
00:13:37.68\00:13:39.41
But it's not,
it's far from a secret.
00:13:39.45\00:13:42.18
He's got it,
He's returned visibly,
00:13:42.22\00:13:44.52
audibly, worldwide,
00:13:44.55\00:13:48.56
so there's no
secret rapture there,
00:13:48.59\00:13:50.13
it's simply a rapturing up.
00:13:50.16\00:13:51.89
We're catching up at
the time that Jesus appears
00:13:51.93\00:13:54.63
in the clouds of heaven,
00:13:54.66\00:13:56.00
clouds of glory coming
down to get His saints.
00:13:56.03\00:13:58.83
This verse in Jeremiah
25:33 "And at that day..."
00:13:58.87\00:14:03.04
This is speaking
about the day of the Lord,
00:14:03.07\00:14:04.57
the day of the
Lord, the Bible says,
00:14:04.61\00:14:05.94
"The Lord has a
controversy with all nations."
00:14:05.97\00:14:08.24
In verse 31, let me just quote
00:14:08.28\00:14:09.94
and put the
whole context together.
00:14:09.98\00:14:12.31
Noise will, let me put
the whole context will be,
00:14:12.35\00:14:18.25
oh, wow.
00:14:18.29\00:14:19.82
Are you looking in Jeremiah?
00:14:19.85\00:14:21.59
Yeah, let's start with...
00:14:21.62\00:14:22.96
Start with verse 30
because it parallels
00:14:22.99\00:14:25.39
1 Thessalonians
forward to a great degree,
00:14:25.43\00:14:27.33
talks about the voice.
00:14:27.36\00:14:28.70
Oh, yeah, it's sure.
00:14:28.73\00:14:30.07
I'm looking at that,
verse 30, "Therefore prophesied
00:14:30.10\00:14:32.77
against them all
these words and say to them,
00:14:32.80\00:14:37.51
the Lord will roar from
on high and utter His voice
00:14:37.54\00:14:41.61
from His holy habitation.
00:14:41.64\00:14:43.65
He will roar
mightily against His fold.
00:14:43.68\00:14:47.15
He will give a shout as
those who tread the grapes,
00:14:47.18\00:14:52.89
against all the
inhabitants of the earth."
00:14:52.92\00:14:55.19
So this is
something everyone will know.
00:14:55.22\00:14:56.56
Already we've seen
the voice and shout,
00:14:56.59\00:14:57.93
same language used by
Paul in Thessalonians 4.
00:14:57.96\00:15:01.30
And this is describing,
00:15:01.33\00:15:02.66
this is describing the
second coming of Jesus.
00:15:02.70\00:15:05.40
A noise will come to
the ends of the earth,
00:15:05.43\00:15:08.10
for the Lord has a
controversy with the nations.
00:15:08.14\00:15:11.81
He will plead His
case with all flesh.
00:15:11.84\00:15:15.44
He will give those who
are wicked to the sword,
00:15:15.48\00:15:18.15
says the Lord.
00:15:18.18\00:15:19.75
This is what's
happening when the Lord comes.
00:15:19.78\00:15:21.28
Matthew 19 talks about this,
00:15:21.32\00:15:23.05
He's going to come
back with Word of God.
00:15:23.08\00:15:24.45
He's going to come
back with a two-edged sword.
00:15:24.49\00:15:27.06
Speaking of the Word
of God from His mouth.
00:15:27.09\00:15:29.22
He's not going to
come back with a sword
00:15:29.26\00:15:30.59
sticking out of His mouth,
00:15:30.63\00:15:31.96
but His word is
like a two-edged sword,
00:15:31.99\00:15:33.76
Hebrews 4:12.
00:15:33.80\00:15:35.66
And this is what's
happening, verse 32,
00:15:35.70\00:15:37.93
"Thus says the Lord of hosts,
behold disaster shall go forth
00:15:37.97\00:15:41.97
from nation to nation,
and the great whirlwind
00:15:42.00\00:15:44.97
shall be raised up,
00:15:45.01\00:15:46.34
from the farthest
parts of the earth..."
00:15:46.37\00:15:48.98
And what's the result of that?
00:15:49.01\00:15:51.31
"And at that day,
the slain of the Lord
00:15:51.35\00:15:53.75
shall be many from
one end of the earth
00:15:53.78\00:15:57.02
even to the
other end of the earth,
00:15:57.05\00:15:59.95
they shall not be lamented,
or gathered, or buried,
00:15:59.99\00:16:04.53
they shall become
refuse on the ground."
00:16:04.56\00:16:07.66
And that text
there lamented together,
00:16:07.70\00:16:09.70
meaning there will
be no funeral parlors,
00:16:09.73\00:16:12.00
looking for funeral services.
00:16:12.03\00:16:14.54
When destruction
comes to the earth as it is,
00:16:14.57\00:16:17.31
and Isaiah 24
brings this out also,
00:16:17.34\00:16:20.11
"When destruction
comes to all of humanity,
00:16:20.14\00:16:22.44
everyone is going
to be affected by it."
00:16:22.48\00:16:25.61
That's why you find not only
the inhabitants of the earth,
00:16:25.65\00:16:29.28
but also the shepherds.
00:16:29.32\00:16:30.92
The ones that have
led the flock astray,
00:16:30.95\00:16:33.29
they will have their day
pay for their dishonesty,
00:16:33.32\00:16:36.52
to pay for the people that
they have led into destruction.
00:16:36.56\00:16:39.06
The blind leading the blind.
00:16:39.09\00:16:41.03
Both now face
the judgment of God.
00:16:41.06\00:16:43.26
And so really be careful,
00:16:43.30\00:16:46.37
this is not a
secret by any means.
00:16:46.40\00:16:48.94
Psalms 25, I think it is.
00:16:48.97\00:16:52.04
Here it is, Psalms 50:3,
00:16:52.07\00:16:54.84
"Our God shall come
and shall not keep silent.
00:16:54.88\00:16:58.55
A fire shall devour before Him
00:16:58.58\00:17:01.28
and it shall be
tempestuous all around Him."
00:17:01.32\00:17:04.69
So this consuming fire of
God, this destruction that comes
00:17:04.72\00:17:08.69
is not as you
asked the question here.
00:17:08.72\00:17:12.86
It has nothing to
do with the rapture.
00:17:12.89\00:17:15.60
But the saints are caught
away to be spared from this.
00:17:15.63\00:17:18.67
And the Bible says in Psalms 91,
00:17:18.70\00:17:20.74
"A thousand will
fall at your side
00:17:20.77\00:17:22.30
and ten thousand
at your right hand,
00:17:22.34\00:17:24.04
but it will not come near you.
00:17:24.07\00:17:25.74
Only with your
eyes will you behold
00:17:25.77\00:17:28.34
and see the
reward of the wicked."
00:17:28.38\00:17:31.21
So this is something
that's going to happen
00:17:31.25\00:17:33.48
when Jesus comes again,
00:17:33.52\00:17:34.85
not at a rapture
or a secret rapture
00:17:34.88\00:17:37.59
which has no bearing
on scripture whatsoever.
00:17:37.62\00:17:40.56
That's right.
00:17:40.59\00:17:42.46
Okay. Okay.
00:17:42.49\00:17:44.36
I have an encouraging letter
00:17:44.39\00:17:47.30
that Kara had
emailed that came in.
00:17:47.33\00:17:49.10
And we like these
because they kind of let us know
00:17:49.13\00:17:52.40
what happens after
we do these programs.
00:17:52.43\00:17:54.20
Okay.
00:17:54.24\00:17:55.57
It comes from
Jerome, and he says,
00:17:55.60\00:17:58.77
"I was flipping
through channels,
00:17:58.81\00:18:00.14
and I watched your
explanation of the Sabbath.
00:18:00.18\00:18:02.18
It really changed my viewpoint.
00:18:02.21\00:18:04.15
I thank God and thank
you for that information.
00:18:04.18\00:18:07.35
I have placed a
lot of importance
00:18:07.38\00:18:09.05
on Sunday church
going as tradition.
00:18:09.08\00:18:11.45
I know now that God
has something better
00:18:11.49\00:18:13.89
and I had felt
that as a grown man.
00:18:13.92\00:18:15.96
He has been
leading me to the truth
00:18:15.99\00:18:17.96
and of that very subject.
00:18:17.99\00:18:20.16
Once again, I appreciate
the knowledge and I thank you."
00:18:20.20\00:18:22.90
So very
encouraging to hear from people
00:18:22.93\00:18:25.23
that an individual
who heard our discussion
00:18:25.27\00:18:28.44
and was convicted of that
by the Lord through His Word.
00:18:28.47\00:18:33.58
And so it's not about us,
we're just sharing the word.
00:18:33.61\00:18:36.58
This is the work
that the Holy Spirit does
00:18:36.61\00:18:38.45
in the hearts
and lives of people.
00:18:38.48\00:18:39.81
That's right. Thank you,
John. I have another one.
00:18:39.85\00:18:43.89
"If the laws of
Moses, which are written
00:18:43.92\00:18:46.82
and kept outside
the Ark of the Covenant
00:18:46.86\00:18:49.82
and the Ten
Commandments were kept inside,
00:18:49.86\00:18:53.56
why is it that the Seventh-day
Adventist Church says,
00:18:53.60\00:18:58.40
I'm going to die,
00:18:58.43\00:18:59.93
will be cast
into the lake of fire,
00:18:59.97\00:19:02.10
if I eat pork.
00:19:02.14\00:19:03.64
Isn't that nailed to
the cross, isn't not?
00:19:03.67\00:19:08.64
Is it not the Ten Commandments?
00:19:08.68\00:19:11.45
I would greatly appreciate
an answer to this question."
00:19:11.48\00:19:14.85
Well, let me go
ahead and clarify this.
00:19:14.88\00:19:17.69
First of all, there are a
lot of people that ate pork
00:19:17.72\00:19:20.86
that are going to be in heaven.
00:19:20.89\00:19:23.56
There are a lot
of people that smoked
00:19:23.59\00:19:24.93
that are going to be in heaven.
00:19:24.96\00:19:26.29
There are a lot
of people that drink
00:19:26.33\00:19:27.66
that are going to be in heaven.
00:19:27.70\00:19:29.03
Moses, who is in
heaven, killed an Egyptian.
00:19:29.06\00:19:32.70
So it's not the
activity of your life,
00:19:32.73\00:19:34.37
it's what the Lord
can deliver you from.
00:19:34.40\00:19:36.54
And I understand the inference
that you're making here,
00:19:36.57\00:19:38.97
that in other words
if I keep on eating pork
00:19:39.01\00:19:41.44
while the Bible talks
about your body as God's temple.
00:19:41.48\00:19:44.55
The temple, not concept
but teaching in the scriptures,
00:19:44.58\00:19:48.52
it's not a concept at all.
00:19:48.55\00:19:50.09
The body is the temple of God.
00:19:50.12\00:19:52.12
And the Bible says
in 1 Corinthians 13,
00:19:52.15\00:19:56.49
1 Corinthians 10:31.
00:19:56.52\00:19:58.99
Let me turn
there, 1 Corinthians 13
00:19:59.03\00:20:01.86
is the chapter about love.
00:20:01.90\00:20:03.73
1 Corinthians 10.
00:20:03.77\00:20:07.37
Here it is, and the verse
says, "Therefore whether you eat
00:20:07.40\00:20:14.21
or drink or whatever you
do, do all to the glory of God.
00:20:14.24\00:20:20.08
And so Paul the Apostle,
speaking to the Corinthians,
00:20:20.12\00:20:23.79
who in fact were impacted
00:20:23.82\00:20:26.25
by the social
norms of their day,
00:20:26.29\00:20:28.62
including in
the city of Corinth,
00:20:28.66\00:20:30.79
which is a province of
Greece, or a city in Greece.
00:20:30.83\00:20:34.50
They were impacted and
affected by the society
00:20:34.53\00:20:37.03
in which they lived.
00:20:37.07\00:20:38.43
But Paul continued to
remind them in other areas,
00:20:38.47\00:20:41.54
not only what they ate or drank,
00:20:41.57\00:20:43.61
but also about
immoralities, sexual immorality.
00:20:43.64\00:20:46.57
And he said to them in
1 Corinthians 6:19, 20,
00:20:46.61\00:20:52.51
"Do you not know that your body
00:20:52.55\00:20:54.12
is the temple
of the Holy Spirit,
00:20:54.15\00:20:55.78
who is in you,
whom you have of God,
00:20:55.82\00:20:58.12
and you are not your own,
for you were bought at a price,
00:20:58.15\00:21:01.26
therefore
glorify God in your body,
00:21:01.29\00:21:04.06
and in your
spirit which are God's."
00:21:04.09\00:21:06.36
He is talking about ownership.
00:21:06.39\00:21:07.73
Our bodies don't belong to us.
00:21:07.76\00:21:09.36
But there's one more passage.
00:21:09.40\00:21:11.40
1 Corinthians 3:16 and 17.
00:21:11.43\00:21:15.77
"Do you not know that
you are the temple of God
00:21:15.80\00:21:18.24
and that the Spirit
of God dwells in you?"
00:21:18.27\00:21:20.71
And here is verse
17, "If anyone defiles
00:21:20.74\00:21:24.58
the temple of God,
God will destroy him,
00:21:24.61\00:21:27.32
for the temple of God is
holy which temple ye are."
00:21:27.35\00:21:30.92
Now, what does
that mean, destroy him?
00:21:30.95\00:21:33.52
What does that
mean, defile the temple?
00:21:33.56\00:21:36.06
Well, the person who
understood the temple services
00:21:36.09\00:21:39.16
understood what that meant.
00:21:39.19\00:21:40.53
No unclean meats could be used
in the temple services at all.
00:21:40.56\00:21:44.17
But now let's
make the association
00:21:44.20\00:21:46.13
or the illustration connection.
00:21:46.17\00:21:48.14
You have type,
the actual temple,
00:21:48.17\00:21:51.01
physical
animals being sacrificed
00:21:51.04\00:21:53.24
and their meat being
sacrificed on the altar,
00:21:53.27\00:21:56.01
their blood being sprinkled.
00:21:56.04\00:21:57.68
But then you have
the spiritual temple
00:21:57.71\00:21:59.95
which is our bodies.
00:21:59.98\00:22:01.32
Your body is the temple of God,
00:22:01.35\00:22:02.92
because we recognize
that our bodies belong to God,
00:22:02.95\00:22:05.32
and the Spirit of God
moves in after we accept Him.
00:22:05.35\00:22:09.12
The Lord says, "Keep
your body from defiling it,
00:22:09.16\00:22:11.69
from impurity,
from sexual immorality,
00:22:11.73\00:22:14.33
from unclean, from tobacco,
from alcohol, from drugs.
00:22:14.36\00:22:18.27
Anything that abuses this
body that is God's temple."
00:22:18.30\00:22:21.77
And the Lord specifically
said to His children
00:22:21.80\00:22:25.47
in Deuteronomy 14:8,
00:22:25.51\00:22:27.18
and by the way I want
to make this very clear.
00:22:27.21\00:22:29.21
"The swine is unclean to you.
You shall not eat its flesh."
00:22:29.24\00:22:33.45
And so why is the swine unclean?
00:22:33.48\00:22:36.15
The Adventist Church doesn't say
00:22:36.18\00:22:38.02
that you're going
to be burn in hell
00:22:38.05\00:22:40.49
or throw down in
the lake of fire.
00:22:40.52\00:22:42.19
We don't teach that at all.
00:22:42.22\00:22:43.83
But we do teach,
as the Bible teaches
00:22:43.86\00:22:45.83
that our bodies belong
to God, and God's Word says,
00:22:45.86\00:22:49.06
we didn't say that.
00:22:49.10\00:22:50.43
If anyone defiles
the temple of God,
00:22:50.47\00:22:53.23
1 Corinthians 3:17,
00:22:53.27\00:22:55.70
"If anyone
defiles the temple of God,
00:22:55.74\00:22:58.11
God will destroy him."
00:22:58.14\00:22:59.57
That's not our teaching.
That's in the scriptures.
00:22:59.61\00:23:01.94
For the temple of God is
holy, which temple ye are.
00:23:01.98\00:23:04.55
So it could be defiled
through alcohol, cigarettes,
00:23:04.58\00:23:06.58
sexual immorality,
perversion, homosexuality,
00:23:06.61\00:23:09.35
any of these practices
that defile the temple,
00:23:09.38\00:23:11.99
and negates the
reality that the Spirit of God
00:23:12.02\00:23:15.46
has now sanctified you.
00:23:15.49\00:23:17.99
When we are
sanctified, we are made holy.
00:23:18.03\00:23:20.63
And nothing unclean
should be included or allowed
00:23:20.66\00:23:24.17
to affect the body
externally or internally.
00:23:24.20\00:23:27.70
So now what's the
opposite side of that?
00:23:27.74\00:23:34.64
The swine has been created
as the garbage can of earth.
00:23:34.68\00:23:39.65
God has created his
own sanitation department.
00:23:39.68\00:23:42.52
If you let a pig go.
00:23:42.55\00:23:45.05
Somebody did this illustration.
00:23:45.09\00:23:46.49
And by the way you
can have a pig as a pet,
00:23:46.52\00:23:48.46
just like you can
have a dog as a pet.
00:23:48.49\00:23:50.93
You can have any
unclean animal as a pet.
00:23:50.96\00:23:53.56
You know, we have dogs,
dogs are not to be eaten.
00:23:53.60\00:23:55.46
They are unclean as it
were, in the sense of dietary.
00:23:55.50\00:23:58.67
But you can have a dog whatever,
00:23:58.70\00:24:00.04
you can have a pig.
00:24:00.07\00:24:01.40
Some people, it's
fashionable in some places
00:24:01.44\00:24:02.90
for people to
have a cute little pig.
00:24:02.94\00:24:04.51
You know, they walk
around down Hollywood Boulevard
00:24:04.54\00:24:06.34
with their little pink pig.
00:24:06.37\00:24:07.74
It's cute. They
get all the attention.
00:24:07.78\00:24:09.38
It's a great pet.
00:24:09.41\00:24:10.98
But when you, you
could shower that thing.
00:24:11.01\00:24:14.55
You could bath it,
you could spray perfume
00:24:14.58\00:24:16.89
or cologne, put a nice red bow.
00:24:16.92\00:24:19.12
But the moment you let
it go, it's going to go find
00:24:19.15\00:24:21.62
some mud somewhere,
some filth somewhere,
00:24:21.66\00:24:25.26
some something
rotting somewhere.
00:24:25.29\00:24:27.33
God created that animal
to be a walking garbage can,
00:24:27.36\00:24:32.20
a sanitation department
to keep God's creation clean.
00:24:32.23\00:24:35.70
That's right.
00:24:35.74\00:24:37.07
So don't put that in your
body and affect your body.
00:24:37.11\00:24:39.37
Health issues
are paramount enough.
00:24:39.41\00:24:43.31
But we do not teach as a people,
00:24:43.35\00:24:45.05
that if you eat that,
00:24:45.08\00:24:46.41
you're going to be
thrown into the lake of fire.
00:24:46.45\00:24:48.18
The Lord's Word says
that we will be destroyed
00:24:48.22\00:24:50.99
if we defile His temple.
00:24:51.02\00:24:52.35
It's not a teaching
of the Adventist Church.
00:24:52.39\00:24:53.72
It's a doctrine of the Bible.
00:24:53.76\00:24:55.92
John, the word,
the words together,
00:24:55.96\00:24:58.49
unclean foods, is
a bit of a misnomer.
00:24:58.53\00:25:01.20
That's right. Here's why.
00:25:01.23\00:25:03.67
The only kind of unclean
food in the New Testament
00:25:03.70\00:25:07.44
described is
food offered to idols.
00:25:07.47\00:25:11.64
There's no unclean food
ever described or mentioned
00:25:11.67\00:25:15.08
in regard to swine
or anything like that,
00:25:15.11\00:25:19.95
and here's why I can say this.
00:25:19.98\00:25:21.48
That's right.
00:25:21.52\00:25:22.85
Because unclean foods like pig
00:25:22.88\00:25:28.32
and all the other stuff,
pork, those never were foods.
00:25:28.36\00:25:33.86
Never.
00:25:33.90\00:25:35.36
There are two lines of animals
that come down through history.
00:25:35.40\00:25:40.37
You'll find this in
Exodus and Leviticus.
00:25:40.40\00:25:46.01
Very clearly,
two lines of foods,
00:25:46.04\00:25:48.74
two lines of animals.
00:25:48.78\00:25:50.11
Unclean animals
and clean animals.
00:25:50.15\00:25:53.38
God says of the clean
animals, you can eat those.
00:25:53.42\00:25:57.49
Of the unclean
animals, He says, not food.
00:25:57.52\00:26:00.96
That's right.
00:26:00.99\00:26:02.32
So understand
what we're saying here.
00:26:02.36\00:26:04.53
Unclean animals,
that's not a misnomer,
00:26:04.56\00:26:07.43
that is very, very
clear from scripture.
00:26:07.46\00:26:08.96
Unclean animals, not food.
00:26:09.00\00:26:12.43
So when you come
down to the New Testament,
00:26:12.47\00:26:14.30
if you're talking
about unclean foods,
00:26:14.34\00:26:17.07
the only kind of unclean
foods, using the word foods
00:26:17.11\00:26:19.84
is food offered to idols.
00:26:19.87\00:26:21.48
That's right.
00:26:21.51\00:26:22.84
Unclean foods doesn't exist
when it comes to the context
00:26:22.88\00:26:25.15
of pork and things,
because it's the animal itself
00:26:25.18\00:26:30.82
that's unclean and untouchable.
00:26:30.85\00:26:34.26
So people say we
can eat unclean foods.
00:26:34.29\00:26:37.13
I don't get what you're saying.
00:26:37.16\00:26:38.53
Unclean animals are not food.
00:26:38.56\00:26:40.33
No, they never...
It never was food.
00:26:40.36\00:26:42.66
So when you're
talking to even Jew or gentile
00:26:42.70\00:26:46.33
within the church in
the context of foods,
00:26:46.37\00:26:49.10
there's no clear
or unclean foods,
00:26:49.14\00:26:51.91
there is either
clean or unclean animals,
00:26:51.94\00:26:54.11
and only the animals
that are clean are food.
00:26:54.14\00:26:56.75
And then the foods
that are declared unclean
00:26:56.78\00:26:58.88
are those that have
been offered to idols,
00:26:58.91\00:27:00.88
you see what I'm saying.
00:27:00.92\00:27:02.25
The distinction
is very clear here
00:27:02.28\00:27:03.62
and people just totally
get messed up on this topic.
00:27:03.65\00:27:06.72
And they start debating over,
well, all food is acceptable.
00:27:06.76\00:27:09.96
No. Well, you're
right, all food is acceptable.
00:27:09.99\00:27:12.56
But the animals that
were never declared food,
00:27:12.59\00:27:15.00
that's still not acceptable.
00:27:15.03\00:27:16.46
Okay, now here is
that... I mean, you hit the...
00:27:16.50\00:27:18.97
Do you know what I'm
going here or what I'm saying?
00:27:19.00\00:27:20.97
It's like, this is
not a proper understanding
00:27:21.00\00:27:23.34
of how God organized
and structured animals
00:27:23.37\00:27:26.78
in the lines of
clean and unclean.
00:27:26.81\00:27:29.34
Jeremiah, I
mean, Leviticus 7:19,
00:27:29.38\00:27:32.28
"Any unclean thing
shall not be eaten.
00:27:32.31\00:27:35.22
It's not food."
00:27:35.25\00:27:36.58
It's not food at
all, never has been.
00:27:36.62\00:27:38.15
Ask for the clean flesh.
00:27:38.19\00:27:41.46
All who are clean may eat of it.
00:27:41.49\00:27:43.89
There you go.
00:27:43.93\00:27:45.26
See, clean, you could eat
it, but any un thing clean
00:27:45.29\00:27:48.63
shall not be eaten.
00:27:48.66\00:27:50.47
It's not food.
00:27:50.50\00:27:51.83
It was never
intended to be food.
00:27:51.87\00:27:54.44
We don't go to garbage.
00:27:54.47\00:27:56.20
You know, can you
imagine you take...
00:27:56.24\00:27:57.74
Let's just get a picture.
00:27:57.77\00:27:59.57
You run a bus, nice
patted, nice coach bus holes.
00:27:59.61\00:28:03.88
You know, 80
people or 100 people.
00:28:03.91\00:28:06.01
And where are we going?
We're going on a picnic today.
00:28:06.05\00:28:09.18
Where? To the
nearest garbage dump.
00:28:09.22\00:28:13.05
Oh, what we are
going to do there?
00:28:13.09\00:28:14.46
We're going to
have a beautiful lunch.
00:28:14.49\00:28:16.96
Where is the lunch?
It's at the garbage dump.
00:28:16.99\00:28:19.86
So everybody on the bus
is clapping, they're excited,
00:28:19.89\00:28:21.76
we're going to
have a picnic today.
00:28:21.80\00:28:23.30
You know, it's a
ridiculous illustration,
00:28:23.33\00:28:25.17
but in fact when you eat
00:28:25.20\00:28:26.63
what God never
intended to be eaten,
00:28:26.67\00:28:29.04
that's exactly
what you're doing.
00:28:29.07\00:28:30.41
You're going on an
excursion to a garbage dump,
00:28:30.44\00:28:32.87
and you're
putting in this beautiful,
00:28:32.91\00:28:34.61
beautiful machine.
00:28:34.64\00:28:35.98
How many of you would
open the tank of your Toyota,
00:28:36.01\00:28:39.05
or your Ferrari,
or your Mercedes,
00:28:39.08\00:28:41.18
import dirt in the tank.
00:28:41.22\00:28:44.15
You wouldn't do it.
00:28:44.19\00:28:45.52
You wouldn't even
put, you wouldn't even put
00:28:45.55\00:28:47.62
unfiltered fuel in your car,
00:28:47.66\00:28:50.43
no matter how
much you paid for it.
00:28:50.46\00:28:52.46
You will get
your air filter clean
00:28:52.49\00:28:54.03
and you will say,
"I want this car to be,
00:28:54.06\00:28:55.83
how many of us
will give bubble gum
00:28:55.86\00:28:57.93
and give a nice
can of Miller beer
00:28:57.97\00:29:00.57
to a million dollar horse,
00:29:00.60\00:29:01.97
and expect him to run
the race the next day.
00:29:02.00\00:29:03.64
We wouldn't do it.
00:29:03.67\00:29:05.24
We take better
care of our animals,
00:29:05.27\00:29:08.01
and our cars than many
of us do of our own bodies.
00:29:08.04\00:29:12.15
So it's useless to have
an argument or a discussion
00:29:12.18\00:29:15.48
on clean and unclean foods.
00:29:15.52\00:29:17.09
Right.
00:29:17.12\00:29:18.45
Because unclean
animals are never food.
00:29:18.49\00:29:21.26
So don't even tell me
that all or some of these foods
00:29:21.29\00:29:23.43
that were unclean are clean
because they were never food.
00:29:23.46\00:29:26.53
No, never. So, okay.
00:29:26.56\00:29:28.80
So that's what we're
really trying to say here.
00:29:28.83\00:29:31.27
And when all these debates
over clean, unclean foods,
00:29:31.30\00:29:33.90
the only discussion you
can have in that regard is over
00:29:33.94\00:29:37.04
whether they've been
offered to idols or not.
00:29:37.07\00:29:38.84
That's right.
00:29:38.87\00:29:40.21
Not line of animals
that are food or not food.
00:29:40.24\00:29:43.75
And you can't cook it
long enough to make it clean.
00:29:43.78\00:29:47.92
Any more than you can
set a garbage dump on fire
00:29:47.95\00:29:50.42
and make it clean.
00:29:50.45\00:29:52.12
Fire doesn't
make anything clean.
00:29:52.15\00:29:54.09
You can't season
it to make it clean.
00:29:54.12\00:29:56.52
You cannot
thawed out long enough
00:29:56.56\00:29:58.86
and drain enough blood from
it, that's to make it clean.
00:29:58.89\00:30:02.16
God never intended for
certain things to be eaten,
00:30:02.20\00:30:05.00
so He never called it food.
00:30:05.03\00:30:07.40
All right. I think
that's good for our questions.
00:30:07.44\00:30:10.27
Sometimes we have to
come across very clearly.
00:30:10.31\00:30:12.61
And we're not hoping, hopefully,
00:30:12.64\00:30:14.18
we're not coming
across to offend you.
00:30:14.21\00:30:16.11
But we want you to be
clear about God's word.
00:30:16.14\00:30:18.51
And John was very
clear about making sure
00:30:18.55\00:30:21.68
that unclean and
food are an oxymoron.
00:30:21.72\00:30:24.39
It doesn't really
exist. That's right.
00:30:24.42\00:30:26.02
If you have any
further questions or comments
00:30:26.05\00:30:27.66
that you want to send to us,
00:30:27.69\00:30:29.02
send those
questions and comments
00:30:29.06\00:30:30.39
at the following
email, housecalls@3abn.org.
00:30:30.43\00:30:33.50
That's housecalls@3abn.org.
00:30:33.53\00:30:36.73
John, I'm
passing the baton to you.
00:30:36.77\00:30:39.33
You've done a lot
of study in this area,
00:30:39.37\00:30:40.87
and I appreciate it very much.
00:30:40.90\00:30:42.24
Yes, we're going to finish up
our discussion on discipleship.
00:30:42.27\00:30:46.68
And all of these things
are taken from a presentation
00:30:46.71\00:30:49.88
that I put together
00:30:49.91\00:30:51.65
for the Upper
Columbia Conference.
00:30:51.68\00:30:53.05
But have been traveling a
bit and doing some seminars
00:30:53.08\00:30:56.38
on this in hopes that,
John, our churches will desire
00:30:56.42\00:31:00.06
to build a culture
00:31:00.09\00:31:02.52
of discipleship in the churches.
00:31:02.56\00:31:04.39
Because, as I'll say it again,
00:31:04.43\00:31:06.59
if churches did
discipleship right,
00:31:06.63\00:31:08.50
evangelism itself and
fulfilling the commission
00:31:08.53\00:31:11.77
would largely
take care of itself.
00:31:11.80\00:31:13.17
That's right.
00:31:13.20\00:31:14.54
Now, it does not minimize
public evangelism at all.
00:31:14.57\00:31:17.24
It simply says that if
you did discipleship right,
00:31:17.27\00:31:20.54
when you had in
a public meeting,
00:31:20.58\00:31:22.34
you'd actually have a
bunch of people ready to attend,
00:31:22.38\00:31:25.11
because discipleship
had already been occurring
00:31:25.15\00:31:27.38
and new people would
be coming in His interest,
00:31:27.42\00:31:30.05
into the church without having
00:31:30.09\00:31:32.09
to just send a bunch
of flyers and things out,
00:31:32.12\00:31:34.09
which we're
finding now works worse,
00:31:34.12\00:31:36.93
it works...
00:31:36.96\00:31:39.13
What is the word
here. Is not as effective.
00:31:39.16\00:31:40.90
It doesn't work nearly
00:31:40.93\00:31:42.76
as effective as it ever used to.
00:31:42.80\00:31:44.57
So anyway. Okay.
00:31:44.60\00:31:46.47
So here's where we're at.
00:31:46.50\00:31:48.14
We're looking at
Christ's other method.
00:31:48.17\00:31:50.91
His method of making disciples.
00:31:50.94\00:31:53.04
We know about the method
of winning people's hearts
00:31:53.07\00:31:56.41
to the Lord as
you do evangelism,
00:31:56.44\00:31:58.51
Ministry of Healing, 143,
we've talked much about that,
00:31:58.55\00:32:01.65
and you've heard that
in many times in seminars.
00:32:01.68\00:32:04.29
But this is
Christ's other method,
00:32:04.32\00:32:05.85
His method of
making disciples. Okay.
00:32:05.89\00:32:08.36
And so it follows the
disciple making matrix
00:32:08.39\00:32:10.66
that I pulled out of scripture
of the four different areas
00:32:10.69\00:32:16.06
that a church must engage in,
00:32:16.10\00:32:18.13
if they're going to be
a disciple making church
00:32:18.17\00:32:19.90
which is to connect,
grow, equip, and send.
00:32:19.93\00:32:24.57
And so in the context of that,
Christ called the disciples
00:32:24.61\00:32:29.61
that's where He
connects them to Him.
00:32:29.64\00:32:32.08
He taught the disciples,
00:32:32.11\00:32:33.78
they grew in their
understanding of Him
00:32:33.82\00:32:36.95
and a knowledge of His will.
00:32:36.99\00:32:39.05
He showed the
disciples, He demonstrated,
00:32:39.09\00:32:41.69
in other words,
He equipped them.
00:32:41.72\00:32:43.93
There's nothing like
seeing something firsthand
00:32:43.96\00:32:46.93
and learning.
00:32:46.96\00:32:48.30
We learn much
better by doing something
00:32:48.33\00:32:50.33
that's practiced before
us than just conceptually
00:32:50.37\00:32:52.97
learning principles, okay.
00:32:53.00\00:32:54.34
That's right.
00:32:54.37\00:32:55.70
And then lastly,
Jesus sent out His disciples
00:32:55.74\00:32:57.51
and that's the send part
of the disciple making matrix,
00:32:57.54\00:33:02.84
in the four quadrants there.
00:33:02.88\00:33:04.28
Okay.
00:33:04.31\00:33:05.65
So let's talk about
each one of these, John,
00:33:05.68\00:33:07.35
because I know that
you've got lots of stuff
00:33:07.38\00:33:08.88
and you can put together there.
00:33:08.92\00:33:10.29
And I've got a lot of
stuff, I put together.
00:33:10.32\00:33:12.49
I think we can kind of finish up
00:33:12.52\00:33:13.86
this whole
topic together in this
00:33:13.89\00:33:15.72
by going over these four,
00:33:15.76\00:33:17.09
and then in the
very last part of it,
00:33:17.13\00:33:18.79
last few
minutes we'll talk about
00:33:18.83\00:33:20.66
quality
characteristics of a church
00:33:20.70\00:33:23.10
that need to be
fostered to become
00:33:23.13\00:33:26.53
the disciple
making church as well.
00:33:26.57\00:33:28.40
Okay. So let's
talk about connect.
00:33:28.44\00:33:32.01
Do you remember
that old show not that,
00:33:32.04\00:33:35.08
I don't even
remember watching it much,
00:33:35.11\00:33:37.25
but you can't
help but running it
00:33:37.28\00:33:38.68
over and over again,
it was on every week,
00:33:38.71\00:33:40.35
I think it was
even Thursday night.
00:33:40.38\00:33:42.28
And it was a show called Cheers.
00:33:42.32\00:33:43.89
Remember that?
Yeah, I've heard about it.
00:33:43.92\00:33:46.02
Well, they had a
theme song on that.
00:33:46.05\00:33:48.69
And I pulled off the words.
00:33:48.72\00:33:50.33
It was a book
that another author
00:33:50.36\00:33:51.73
drew attention to this.
00:33:51.76\00:33:53.09
And he was emphasizing
relationships in the church
00:33:53.13\00:33:54.63
and he had a great point,
so I had to bring this in.
00:33:54.66\00:33:57.97
And here's
essentially what the song says.
00:33:58.00\00:34:02.44
This is just a part of the song.
00:34:02.47\00:34:03.81
It says,
"Sometimes you want to go
00:34:03.84\00:34:07.34
where everybody knows your name,
00:34:07.38\00:34:10.18
and they always,
they're always glad you came.
00:34:10.21\00:34:13.82
You want to be
where you can see,
00:34:13.85\00:34:15.98
our troubles are all the same.
00:34:16.02\00:34:18.32
You want to be where
everybody knows your name."
00:34:18.35\00:34:21.72
Now that's in
the context of a bar.
00:34:21.76\00:34:25.53
And if it's anything,
it's a testimony to us,
00:34:25.56\00:34:29.13
of why people are drawn
to bars in that situation.
00:34:29.16\00:34:32.73
They feel a connection
with the people there.
00:34:32.77\00:34:36.91
It's not just
about the drinking.
00:34:36.94\00:34:38.27
If you think the bars are
all just about getting alcohol
00:34:38.31\00:34:41.84
and getting drunk.
00:34:41.88\00:34:43.35
That's not all there is to it.
00:34:43.38\00:34:44.98
Believe me, I've been there.
00:34:45.01\00:34:46.61
The reason they go to the bars
00:34:46.65\00:34:47.98
is their friends
and people they know
00:34:48.02\00:34:49.58
there at that bar
while they're drinking.
00:34:49.62\00:34:51.22
It connects them.
00:34:51.25\00:34:52.59
That's why they keep
going to that same bar.
00:34:52.62\00:34:54.82
Well, now let's
transition this over
00:34:54.86\00:34:56.73
and talk about
the context of church.
00:34:56.76\00:34:58.19
The way, the reason
people come to church,
00:34:58.23\00:35:01.13
and they want to
come back to church
00:35:01.16\00:35:02.56
is because they have
people there that like them
00:35:02.60\00:35:05.87
and that they'd like
and that they connected
00:35:05.90\00:35:08.30
with on a relational level.
00:35:08.34\00:35:10.01
That's right.
00:35:10.04\00:35:11.47
In fact, if you read the
first two couple of books
00:35:11.51\00:35:14.58
of the Bible,
Genesis 1, not books,
00:35:14.61\00:35:17.28
but chapters, Genesis 1 and 2.
00:35:17.31\00:35:20.18
You'll find
Genesis, some people say,
00:35:20.22\00:35:21.55
well, there are two
creation accounts here,
00:35:21.58\00:35:22.92
there are two creations.
00:35:22.95\00:35:24.29
No, that's not what
the Bible is saying.
00:35:24.32\00:35:26.25
In the first
chapter, then the name Elohim
00:35:26.29\00:35:30.29
is the creator of the worlds,
00:35:30.33\00:35:33.83
but specifically describing
the creation of our world,
00:35:33.86\00:35:36.67
and the sun, and the
moon, and the things around it,
00:35:36.70\00:35:38.47
our galaxy.
00:35:38.50\00:35:40.60
But then you get to
chapter 2 right around verse 4,
00:35:40.64\00:35:42.47
and there's this transition.
00:35:42.50\00:35:43.84
All of a sudden there's a shift,
00:35:43.87\00:35:45.61
and it's no longer
Elohim that is talking about,
00:35:45.64\00:35:48.94
that is creating, forming
man from the dust of the ground,
00:35:48.98\00:35:51.35
and breathing into his
nostrils the breath of life.
00:35:51.38\00:35:53.98
His name is Yahweh Elohim.
00:35:54.02\00:35:57.52
God Elohim has a name.
00:35:57.55\00:36:00.29
It's the Lord, Yahweh.
00:36:00.32\00:36:03.12
The first step anybody
ever has in a relationship
00:36:03.16\00:36:06.63
is when you
learn somebody's name.
00:36:06.66\00:36:08.46
That's right.
00:36:08.50\00:36:09.83
That how many times have
you, and I know you've done this
00:36:09.86\00:36:11.53
because, we've all done this.
00:36:11.57\00:36:14.87
You're walking down a hallway,
00:36:14.90\00:36:16.50
and you're coming up to somebody
00:36:16.54\00:36:17.91
who you should remember
their name and you can't.
00:36:17.94\00:36:21.71
And the closer you get,
00:36:21.74\00:36:23.45
the more you're racking
your brain for the name,
00:36:23.48\00:36:25.15
and almost to the
point of nervousness,
00:36:25.18\00:36:26.88
you realize that if you just
go hi, they'll think, Oh, well,
00:36:26.92\00:36:31.05
he doesn't really remember me,
because he didn't know my name.
00:36:31.09\00:36:34.39
You see, knowing someone's name,
00:36:34.42\00:36:37.53
God as he formed man
from the dust of the ground.
00:36:37.56\00:36:39.59
He says, He says in that chapter
00:36:39.63\00:36:41.86
I'm not just Elohim.
00:36:41.90\00:36:43.23
I'm Yahweh Elohim, your
Creator, and you are Adam.
00:36:43.26\00:36:47.64
There is a connection
that's relational there.
00:36:47.67\00:36:49.67
And then there's
Eve connecting them.
00:36:49.70\00:36:51.94
And so in this
whole development,
00:36:51.97\00:36:54.18
this relationship that begins
to occur between God and man,
00:36:54.21\00:36:57.15
and between man and
woman is to reach down
00:36:57.18\00:37:01.22
at the core of our being,
00:37:01.25\00:37:03.02
a desire that God put
within us for connectedness.
00:37:03.05\00:37:06.39
We want to belong.
00:37:06.42\00:37:08.39
We want somebody
to care, and love us,
00:37:08.42\00:37:10.83
and want us to be around.
00:37:10.86\00:37:12.99
And that's why I say the
church to be a safe church,
00:37:13.03\00:37:15.56
to be a place
where people connect.
00:37:15.60\00:37:17.20
You've got to focus on
the relationship first.
00:37:17.23\00:37:20.64
If the first thing they hear
when you come into a church is,
00:37:20.67\00:37:23.57
well, you know,
that skirt's a bit high.
00:37:23.61\00:37:24.97
I think, you need to maybe
go home and get something on.
00:37:25.01\00:37:28.18
It is no wonder
they never come back
00:37:28.21\00:37:31.01
because you're not focusing,
00:37:31.05\00:37:32.38
you're not emphasizing
the relationship aspect,
00:37:32.41\00:37:34.42
you're focusing on
the legalistic perspective
00:37:34.45\00:37:37.15
of what someone looks like,
and in a very judgmental way.
00:37:37.19\00:37:42.52
We know this to be
true, don't we, John?
00:37:42.56\00:37:44.43
Well, fellowship is
something that can only happen
00:37:44.46\00:37:46.59
when you know each other's name.
00:37:46.63\00:37:48.23
The roadblock of
Christianity is this...
00:37:52.03\00:37:57.41
Which is not a
roadblock in the bar.
00:37:57.44\00:37:59.31
Let me just go ahead
and put that comparison,
00:37:59.34\00:38:01.01
because a lot
of times I've heard
00:38:01.04\00:38:02.51
that illustration use.
00:38:02.54\00:38:04.21
And people have said,
you know, I go to the bar.
00:38:04.25\00:38:06.15
They said, hey, drinks on me.
00:38:06.18\00:38:08.15
Hey, come and sit with
me. Hey, what's your name?
00:38:08.18\00:38:13.22
The context is
completely different.
00:38:13.25\00:38:14.96
There is zero
pretense in the bar.
00:38:14.99\00:38:17.49
That's right.
00:38:17.53\00:38:18.86
I'm gonna get
drunk, you gonna get drunk.
00:38:18.89\00:38:20.50
Let's get drunk
together. It's true.
00:38:20.53\00:38:22.43
You know, there's no pretense.
00:38:22.46\00:38:25.00
In the church,
one of the reasons
00:38:25.03\00:38:26.94
why people put up
walls, is because they know,
00:38:26.97\00:38:31.07
and here is where the,
00:38:31.11\00:38:32.57
here's where
the challenges come.
00:38:32.61\00:38:34.84
They know that there are
some people in that church
00:38:34.88\00:38:37.81
that just came out of the bar.
00:38:37.85\00:38:39.81
That's right.
00:38:39.85\00:38:41.18
That are at
different stages in their walk,
00:38:41.22\00:38:43.85
and they don't
feel safe to feel that,
00:38:43.89\00:38:48.92
I could be in an
environment where everybody
00:38:48.96\00:38:54.73
is going to love me
as I am for who I am.
00:38:54.76\00:38:59.03
So oftentimes we come to church.
00:38:59.07\00:39:02.27
And as Steve Green
pointed out this, you know,
00:39:02.30\00:39:06.07
people need the
Lord, we all come.
00:39:06.11\00:39:07.54
We all need the Lord.
00:39:07.58\00:39:10.78
But because we don't spend time,
00:39:10.81\00:39:13.48
and sometimes this is
the case, because we come out
00:39:13.52\00:39:16.28
of an isolated
challenge in our lives.
00:39:16.32\00:39:20.22
And we bring
this baggage with us.
00:39:20.26\00:39:22.16
We don't lay it at the
feet of Jesus as He says,
00:39:22.19\00:39:24.39
"Come, lay your burden
down, and I will give you rest."
00:39:24.43\00:39:28.16
We come into an environment
where we say "Happy Sabbath",
00:39:28.20\00:39:31.70
or "Good to see
you", or "Happy Sunday",
00:39:31.73\00:39:34.14
or whatever the context of
your church service may be.
00:39:34.17\00:39:38.07
And then, we remain separated
00:39:38.11\00:39:41.74
because there's
nothing that unifies us.
00:39:41.78\00:39:46.18
Now, let me change the scenario.
00:39:46.21\00:39:51.09
If I'm carrying a heavy
bag and you decide to help me
00:39:51.12\00:39:56.29
carry that heavy
bag, or that heavy sack.
00:39:56.32\00:39:59.59
All of a sudden, you
have now become interested
00:39:59.63\00:40:03.26
in lightening my burden.
00:40:03.30\00:40:05.03
And now we're
carrying that together.
00:40:05.07\00:40:07.17
One of the reasons
why God calls His church
00:40:07.20\00:40:09.60
to be mission oriented is
because and hear carefully,
00:40:09.64\00:40:13.61
it takes the focus off of
us and puts it on someone else.
00:40:13.64\00:40:18.35
We start seeing the
need of another person.
00:40:18.38\00:40:20.72
That's why he says,
"Bear one another's burdens,
00:40:20.75\00:40:24.62
and so fulfill
the law of Christ."
00:40:24.65\00:40:27.22
We don't often bear
each other's burdens.
00:40:27.26\00:40:29.49
We come to church
and we want somebody
00:40:29.52\00:40:31.59
to bear our burden.
00:40:31.63\00:40:32.96
Now there's a
difference all together.
00:40:32.99\00:40:34.33
Yeah.
00:40:34.36\00:40:35.70
If you come to church
and say, "Well, I got stuff,
00:40:35.73\00:40:37.07
you got stuff."
00:40:37.10\00:40:38.43
But if I say,
"Can I pray with you?"
00:40:38.47\00:40:41.04
Don't have to
tell me your stuff,
00:40:41.07\00:40:42.50
but I just want
to pray with you.
00:40:42.54\00:40:44.04
And so this idea that we
have to reveal all our stuff
00:40:44.07\00:40:48.21
is not what the
scripture talks about.
00:40:48.24\00:40:50.55
But we have to
come in an environment
00:40:50.58\00:40:51.91
where we know that everybody,
00:40:51.95\00:40:53.28
nobody there is
going to ill-treat me.
00:40:53.31\00:40:55.85
Nobody there is
going to be a danger to me.
00:40:55.88\00:40:58.49
Nobody there is
going to try to hurt me.
00:40:58.52\00:41:01.02
And so, but where
that all evaporates is,
00:41:01.06\00:41:04.63
when we come
together on a unified mission.
00:41:04.66\00:41:07.80
When we are both
connected to the vine,
00:41:07.83\00:41:09.66
we are both
branches, and we're both,
00:41:09.70\00:41:11.87
the fruit are appearing on us,
00:41:11.90\00:41:13.23
so we don't have to feel
like there's some fear there
00:41:13.27\00:41:15.40
because if I see the fruit
of the spirit in your life,
00:41:15.44\00:41:17.87
and you see the fruit
of the spirit in my life,
00:41:17.91\00:41:20.11
we've got a
connection immediately.
00:41:20.14\00:41:21.48
Right.
00:41:21.51\00:41:22.84
So the connect,
the connect part, John,
00:41:22.88\00:41:24.61
is what I want
to emphasize first.
00:41:24.65\00:41:26.31
Get connected. Get connected.
00:41:26.35\00:41:28.68
I did it a lesson for a series
that we did over in London.
00:41:28.72\00:41:33.05
It's called,
"Are you connected."
00:41:33.09\00:41:34.42
Get connected.
00:41:34.46\00:41:35.79
And when you get connected,
00:41:35.82\00:41:37.16
then all of a
sudden mission starts.
00:41:37.19\00:41:39.09
I am the vine,
you are the branches.
00:41:39.13\00:41:41.43
Then we have
fellowship with one another
00:41:41.46\00:41:43.10
as we walk in
light, get connected first.
00:41:43.13\00:41:45.07
Yeah, absolutely.
00:41:45.10\00:41:46.43
Because you can't
go to the next step
00:41:46.47\00:41:47.90
of either accepting
Christ or even a baptism
00:41:47.94\00:41:51.44
if that connection
has been made there,
00:41:51.47\00:41:53.51
not only with God,
but with His people too.
00:41:53.54\00:41:55.44
Right.
00:41:55.48\00:41:56.81
Remember even
the Ten Commandments
00:41:56.85\00:41:58.18
are built on two kinds of,
00:41:58.21\00:41:59.55
two connections in
relationship directions
00:41:59.58\00:42:02.75
between us and
God, our love for God,
00:42:02.78\00:42:05.05
and also our love for people.
00:42:05.09\00:42:07.16
And our connection with people,
and how we love and serve
00:42:07.19\00:42:10.96
and care for each other.
00:42:10.99\00:42:12.33
So that
connection has to be made.
00:42:12.36\00:42:13.70
Now let's talk about grow. Okay.
00:42:13.73\00:42:15.10
So we'll move from
connection to grow.
00:42:15.13\00:42:16.46
So now, a decision
has been made for Christ.
00:42:16.50\00:42:18.97
Baptism has happened.
00:42:19.00\00:42:20.40
And they begin to grow
and hopefully the church then
00:42:20.44\00:42:22.94
is building a
system, a process whereby
00:42:22.97\00:42:27.04
you can bring a disciple,
a newly baptized disciple
00:42:27.08\00:42:30.01
into growth
curriculum so to speak,
00:42:30.05\00:42:36.08
to grow as a disciple.
00:42:36.12\00:42:38.32
Let me see here.
00:42:41.32\00:42:42.96
There's a text here that I had.
00:42:42.99\00:42:44.53
And now all of a sudden
my thing is not working well.
00:42:44.56\00:42:46.73
Okay.
00:42:46.76\00:42:48.10
Well I could... Go ahead.
00:42:48.13\00:42:49.46
Oh, 2 Peter 1:58.
00:42:49.50\00:42:51.97
I just turned
there, unbelievable.
00:42:52.00\00:42:54.64
It's in the notes
too, so there you go.
00:42:54.67\00:42:56.71
It must have been subliminal.
00:42:56.74\00:42:58.47
Our Lord connected us.
00:42:58.51\00:43:00.18
He does, He always does that.
00:43:00.21\00:43:01.84
Go ahead. Read that.
00:43:01.88\00:43:03.24
It says "For if
these things are yours..."
00:43:03.28\00:43:05.58
And I actually I want
to mention the things,
00:43:05.61\00:43:07.15
could I start in verse 5?
00:43:07.18\00:43:08.55
Yeah, go ahead. Okay.
00:43:08.58\00:43:10.29
Because we talked
about the connection.
00:43:10.32\00:43:11.82
We talked about how we have
to add to our walk with Christ,
00:43:11.85\00:43:15.82
these things,
these are the components
00:43:15.86\00:43:18.03
of sustaining grace
and the connectivity
00:43:18.06\00:43:21.86
and the growth in
our walk with each other.
00:43:21.90\00:43:24.63
"But also for this very
reason, giving all diligence
00:43:24.67\00:43:28.50
add it to your virtue,
add to your faith virtue,
00:43:28.54\00:43:33.17
to virtue knowledge,
to knowledge self-control,
00:43:33.21\00:43:37.88
to self-control perseverance,
to perseverance godliness,
00:43:37.91\00:43:43.85
to godliness brotherly kindness,
00:43:43.89\00:43:47.52
to brotherly kindness love,
for if these things are yours
00:43:47.56\00:43:52.93
and abound, you
will be neither barren
00:43:52.96\00:43:56.36
nor unfruitful in the
knowledge of our Lord Jesus,
00:43:56.40\00:44:00.54
for he who lacks these
things is short sighted
00:44:00.57\00:44:03.10
even to
blindness and has forgotten
00:44:03.14\00:44:05.94
that he was
cleansed from his old sins."
00:44:05.97\00:44:08.31
Yeah.
00:44:08.34\00:44:09.68
So the adding portion
here is what excited me
00:44:09.71\00:44:11.35
about reading this text,
because it's a constant stage,
00:44:11.38\00:44:14.25
add, add, add, add, add.
00:44:14.28\00:44:17.65
And this is the
work of sanctification.
00:44:17.69\00:44:20.56
When we talk about discipleship
and that's the subject here.
00:44:20.59\00:44:23.63
Discipleship doesn't begins
until an acceptance of Christ
00:44:23.66\00:44:27.00
and a decision to
follow Him has been made.
00:44:27.03\00:44:29.10
Right.
00:44:29.13\00:44:30.47
That's why we say
that, if you go straight
00:44:30.50\00:44:32.23
to sanctification and
you skip justification,
00:44:32.27\00:44:35.57
that is salvation
in Christ by faith
00:44:35.60\00:44:39.01
according to His
grace, then there's a problem.
00:44:39.04\00:44:42.44
I like what CA used to
say live several times.
00:44:42.48\00:44:44.65
He said, "We have too
many convicts in the church,
00:44:44.68\00:44:48.18
we need more converts."
00:44:48.22\00:44:49.55
Right.
00:44:49.58\00:44:50.92
Convicted of the
topic, but not converted.
00:44:50.95\00:44:52.29
A lot of people
convicted of the information,
00:44:52.32\00:44:53.86
but they're not converted.
00:44:53.89\00:44:55.22
They haven't stopped
and connected with Christ,
00:44:55.26\00:44:57.73
received and have
been justified in Him,
00:44:57.76\00:45:00.30
and then allowed Him
then in a personal way,
00:45:00.33\00:45:02.66
relational way, as
we just talked about
00:45:02.70\00:45:04.43
to walk with Him
and to sanctify them.
00:45:04.47\00:45:06.53
That's right.
00:45:06.57\00:45:07.90
So sanctification is
really what we're talking...
00:45:07.94\00:45:10.21
when we say discipleship,
00:45:10.24\00:45:11.57
we're talking about
the sanctifying process
00:45:11.61\00:45:13.04
in us that God does.
00:45:13.07\00:45:14.41
Right.
00:45:14.44\00:45:15.78
And our
willingness to follow that,
00:45:15.81\00:45:18.08
and allow Him to do that work.
00:45:18.11\00:45:20.52
Here's some of the
spiritual practices.
00:45:20.55\00:45:23.35
We're talking about
the things we should do
00:45:23.39\00:45:25.72
on a regular basis to grow.
00:45:25.75\00:45:27.19
Okay.
00:45:27.22\00:45:28.56
Here's some things
that are important for us.
00:45:28.59\00:45:31.06
Prayer. Okay.
00:45:31.09\00:45:33.40
Bible study,
worship is important,
00:45:33.43\00:45:37.00
gathering with the saints
00:45:37.03\00:45:38.37
and to worship
corporately and even privately,
00:45:38.40\00:45:41.27
worship is important.
00:45:41.30\00:45:42.84
Here's another
one, that's a good one.
00:45:42.87\00:45:44.24
Self-assessment. Oh, yeah.
00:45:44.27\00:45:46.84
There's a constant,
for us to grow spiritually.
00:45:46.88\00:45:49.58
We have to constantly
do some self-assessment.
00:45:49.61\00:45:51.68
We have to
understand who we are,
00:45:51.71\00:45:53.38
what our
weaknesses are, what are,
00:45:53.42\00:45:55.25
even what our
strengths might be,
00:45:55.28\00:45:57.12
and allow God to
help mold and shape those.
00:45:57.15\00:46:00.72
Here's another one, testimony.
00:46:00.76\00:46:04.13
Just giving our
testimony can help us
00:46:04.16\00:46:06.03
grow in our faith.
00:46:06.06\00:46:07.60
We become stronger in our
faith when we share our faith.
00:46:07.63\00:46:10.77
That's right.
00:46:10.80\00:46:12.13
And then lastly, the
last one I want to point out
00:46:12.17\00:46:13.74
is stewardship.
00:46:13.77\00:46:15.44
Not just of money, but of time,
00:46:15.47\00:46:18.21
our talents, and
our financial means.
00:46:18.24\00:46:22.74
So all those things,
00:46:22.78\00:46:25.01
those three things
part of stewardship
00:46:25.05\00:46:26.68
are all part of growth.
00:46:26.72\00:46:28.32
And so, John, when we speak
of these things as pastors,
00:46:28.35\00:46:31.52
when we preach on
these various things,
00:46:31.55\00:46:33.05
what we're interested
in is helping the disciples
00:46:33.09\00:46:34.92
who are there learn
how to grow in Jesus.
00:46:34.96\00:46:37.53
Right, and the growth
is a process that's daily,
00:46:37.56\00:46:42.36
it's not a one time thing.
00:46:42.40\00:46:44.80
But you've got to feed
yourself during the week.
00:46:44.83\00:46:49.67
Yeah.
00:46:49.70\00:46:51.04
So many people,
so many Christians,
00:46:51.07\00:46:54.08
we're talking
about Christians now.
00:46:54.11\00:46:56.51
And I'm not
talking about making plans.
00:46:56.54\00:46:57.95
Now people plan
for their vacations,
00:46:57.98\00:47:00.02
they plan for their
retirement, or they should.
00:47:00.05\00:47:03.35
They plan for a rainy day.
00:47:06.45\00:47:09.02
That's the terminology we use.
00:47:09.06\00:47:11.53
But so many Christians
don't plan for the success
00:47:11.56\00:47:14.20
in their Christian walk.
00:47:14.23\00:47:16.20
So what do I need to do
00:47:16.23\00:47:17.57
to become a
successful Christian?
00:47:17.60\00:47:19.03
What do I need to do to
become effective in my walk?
00:47:19.07\00:47:22.00
How do I grow?
00:47:22.04\00:47:23.54
And I always say,
if you fail to plan...
00:47:23.57\00:47:26.74
You plan to
fail. You plan to fail.
00:47:26.78\00:47:28.94
If you fail to
plan, if there's no...
00:47:28.98\00:47:30.58
If you don't
have any literal plan
00:47:30.61\00:47:34.12
on a day-by-day basis to grow.
00:47:34.15\00:47:36.82
If you don't have a
plan to read your Bible,
00:47:36.85\00:47:38.95
you don't have a
plan to share your faith.
00:47:38.99\00:47:40.82
And these are not things
00:47:40.86\00:47:42.19
that you go
through the list and check.
00:47:42.22\00:47:43.56
But it's not
possible to read your Bible
00:47:43.59\00:47:45.56
and not want to
share that with someone.
00:47:45.59\00:47:47.00
It's just not possible.
00:47:47.03\00:47:48.46
You find, you get
so excited about it,
00:47:48.50\00:47:50.40
when we taste and
see if the Lord is good,
00:47:50.43\00:47:52.50
we want to tell
somebody about it.
00:47:52.53\00:47:53.87
So...
00:47:53.90\00:47:55.24
It's not possible to
spend time with Jesus in prayer
00:47:55.27\00:47:56.97
and not be changed by it.
00:47:57.01\00:47:58.34
It's not possible. Yeah.
00:47:58.37\00:47:59.97
It's like a
pregnant woman trying to hide
00:48:00.01\00:48:01.58
the fact that she's got...
00:48:01.61\00:48:02.94
There's a child on the way.
00:48:02.98\00:48:04.31
You can't do that.
00:48:04.35\00:48:05.68
It's going to happen because
00:48:05.71\00:48:07.05
when the Lord shines within you.
00:48:07.08\00:48:09.38
And when the Lord shows up
00:48:09.42\00:48:10.75
in your life,
it's clear, evident.
00:48:10.79\00:48:12.85
So as a result of
the Christ growing in us,
00:48:12.89\00:48:16.29
it should be
evident to all around us.
00:48:16.32\00:48:17.93
Yeah. Have a
plan for that growth.
00:48:17.96\00:48:20.80
There is two other things here,
00:48:20.83\00:48:22.56
two other parts to
this disciple making matrix
00:48:22.60\00:48:25.03
that builds that.
00:48:25.07\00:48:26.50
That is the foundation
of a disciple making church,
00:48:26.53\00:48:29.47
and that is equip.
00:48:29.50\00:48:30.94
And this is the one we
talked about that was probably
00:48:30.97\00:48:32.94
the least amount of attention
is given in the church,
00:48:32.97\00:48:37.01
equipping the saints.
00:48:37.05\00:48:40.22
Turn to Ephesians 4. Okay.
00:48:40.25\00:48:44.39
Ephesians 4 is
where we want to go.
00:48:44.42\00:48:49.22
And Paul is very specific
00:48:49.26\00:48:52.56
as to what to do with the saints
00:48:52.59\00:48:55.73
that meet in the church,
00:48:55.76\00:48:58.03
and the saints is another
word for disciples, right?
00:48:58.07\00:49:00.37
That's right.
00:49:00.40\00:49:01.74
If you're coming to church
and you're following Christ,
00:49:01.77\00:49:03.81
you're a disciple.
00:49:03.84\00:49:05.74
And so let's
start with verse 11.
00:49:05.77\00:49:10.45
"And He, that is Jesus Himself,
gave some to be apostles,
00:49:10.48\00:49:14.75
some prophets, some evangelists,
00:49:14.78\00:49:16.18
some pastors, and teachers."
00:49:16.22\00:49:18.45
Now rather than focusing on
the individual things there,
00:49:18.49\00:49:20.79
those are different gifts.
00:49:20.82\00:49:22.16
What I want to say is,
00:49:22.19\00:49:23.53
what Paul is simply saying
is, these are the leaders,
00:49:23.56\00:49:25.49
these are the
drivers of the church.
00:49:25.53\00:49:27.13
This is leadership, okay.
00:49:27.16\00:49:29.50
So He gives them
for what purpose?
00:49:29.53\00:49:32.27
Verse 12,
00:49:32.30\00:49:33.64
"For the
equipping of the saints,
00:49:33.67\00:49:36.34
for the work of the ministry,
00:49:36.37\00:49:39.24
for the edifying of
the body of Christ."
00:49:39.27\00:49:42.34
Okay.
00:49:42.38\00:49:43.71
So this growing
happens also as the leaders
00:49:43.75\00:49:47.88
of the church come together
and develop a specific plan
00:49:47.92\00:49:50.92
to equip the
members for ministry.
00:49:50.95\00:49:53.36
That's right.
00:49:53.39\00:49:54.72
And notice, it isn't the pastor,
00:49:54.76\00:49:56.22
isn't the leaders
00:49:56.26\00:49:57.59
that are doing all the ministry.
00:49:57.63\00:49:58.96
No.
00:49:58.99\00:50:00.33
They're simply the equippers,
00:50:00.36\00:50:01.70
those that help
others feel empowered,
00:50:01.73\00:50:03.63
develop a sense of empowerment
00:50:03.67\00:50:05.10
for ministry.
00:50:05.13\00:50:06.47
I always say one of
the biggest barriers.
00:50:06.50\00:50:08.44
We went to a church
00:50:08.47\00:50:09.80
and we were doing a
church council there,
00:50:09.84\00:50:11.17
and what we found
while we were visiting,
00:50:11.21\00:50:13.48
the team that I brought in,
00:50:13.51\00:50:15.38
was that the head
elder was demanding
00:50:15.41\00:50:20.18
that all Bible
studies go to him.
00:50:20.22\00:50:24.29
Because, here is the reason,
00:50:24.32\00:50:26.02
he was the only one
that could do it effectively.
00:50:26.05\00:50:29.42
Oh, so nobody else
should give Bible studies.
00:50:29.46\00:50:31.53
No one else should be
doing the Bible studies
00:50:31.56\00:50:32.89
because he will do it right.
00:50:32.93\00:50:34.26
He knows how to do
it. Give him to me.
00:50:34.30\00:50:36.23
Even when they would ask,
00:50:36.26\00:50:38.60
he'd say no, no,
I'll handle this.
00:50:38.63\00:50:40.54
He wouldn't give
up Bible studies,
00:50:40.57\00:50:42.94
and that was the first thing
00:50:42.97\00:50:44.31
we pointed out in
one of our reports,
00:50:44.34\00:50:45.67
that you're stifling
the growth of this church.
00:50:45.71\00:50:48.54
Everybody should be
involved in different areas.
00:50:48.58\00:50:50.65
I'm not saying that
everybody should be an expert
00:50:50.68\00:50:52.41
on Bible studies.
00:50:52.45\00:50:53.78
But certainly
should be able to share
00:50:53.82\00:50:55.15
the elementary
things of your faith.
00:50:55.18\00:50:56.52
Right.
00:50:56.55\00:50:57.89
But we all have
00:50:57.92\00:50:59.25
different
ministries and different gifts,
00:50:59.29\00:51:00.62
and we are
equipped, we become equipped.
00:51:00.66\00:51:03.12
We feel
empowered when leadership,
00:51:03.16\00:51:05.96
the leaders of
the church come in
00:51:05.99\00:51:07.33
and help us understand
00:51:07.36\00:51:08.83
and show us like
Christ demonstrated
00:51:08.86\00:51:10.50
for His disciples.
00:51:10.53\00:51:11.87
They show us how to put
those things into practice.
00:51:11.90\00:51:15.80
I'll tell you
the biggest barrier
00:51:15.84\00:51:17.37
I think for some
in sharing their faith
00:51:17.41\00:51:19.61
for getting out there
and speaking about Christ
00:51:19.64\00:51:21.38
or lending a hand to others
00:51:21.41\00:51:23.48
is that they just
haven't done it before,
00:51:23.51\00:51:25.15
haven't seen it done,
haven't seen it modeled.
00:51:25.18\00:51:28.78
And so this equipping process
00:51:28.82\00:51:30.49
has everything to
do with modeling it.
00:51:30.52\00:51:32.79
And so there are
various ways to do that.
00:51:32.82\00:51:36.89
Let's see.
00:51:36.93\00:51:38.26
Let me share just a
couple of things here.
00:51:38.29\00:51:41.03
Here are some important
aspects of this part of it.
00:51:41.06\00:51:44.57
The equipping portion,
focused on spiritual gifts.
00:51:44.60\00:51:47.64
There's an emphasis
there, developing those talents.
00:51:47.67\00:51:51.34
What's the difference
between gift and talent, John?
00:51:51.37\00:51:53.31
Just the quickest thing.
00:51:53.34\00:51:54.68
Talent is natural,
00:51:54.71\00:51:56.04
gift is controlled
by the Spirit of God.
00:51:56.08\00:51:57.41
Okay.
00:51:57.45\00:51:58.78
And also you would say,
you could also say this,
00:51:58.81\00:52:00.92
you don't become
talented at something
00:52:00.95\00:52:03.35
until you use it.
00:52:03.39\00:52:05.05
So in some respects,
00:52:05.09\00:52:06.42
a gift can be
given to you by God,
00:52:06.45\00:52:07.79
but it never becomes a talent,
00:52:07.82\00:52:09.89
because you
haven't developed it.
00:52:09.92\00:52:12.23
So there's some
of that in there too.
00:52:12.26\00:52:14.30
I mean, I'm talking
about just the words,
00:52:14.33\00:52:15.73
per use of the words.
00:52:15.76\00:52:17.10
talent means, I've
been practicing this
00:52:17.13\00:52:19.53
and I've become
very talented at it.
00:52:19.57\00:52:21.30
Or sometimes we
can bury our talents.
00:52:21.34\00:52:23.07
Absolutely.
00:52:23.10\00:52:24.44
You can just, you
can even know how to use
00:52:24.47\00:52:25.81
that thing very
well and never use it.
00:52:25.84\00:52:27.34
I use an
illustration in the Bible,
00:52:27.38\00:52:28.74
when the wise man found Jesus,
00:52:28.78\00:52:30.11
they offered their gifts to Him.
00:52:30.15\00:52:31.48
It's not possible to find Jesus
and offer your gifts to Him.
00:52:31.51\00:52:34.65
Yeah, yeah. It's not possible.
00:52:34.68\00:52:36.12
You cannot have an
encounter with Jesus
00:52:36.15\00:52:37.49
and not offer your gifts to Him.
00:52:37.52\00:52:38.85
That's right.
00:52:38.89\00:52:40.22
You know, remember the story.
00:52:40.26\00:52:42.52
When they said to Him,
00:52:42.56\00:52:45.19
when the
disciples said to Jesus,
00:52:45.23\00:52:46.86
when the multitudes were there,
00:52:46.90\00:52:48.23
He said, send
the multitudes away.
00:52:48.26\00:52:50.10
And He said, send
them away because He said,
00:52:50.13\00:52:52.20
He thought, the
disciples thought
00:52:52.23\00:52:54.77
they had nothing to
offer the multitudes.
00:52:54.80\00:52:57.21
Whenever you are in a
position of leadership
00:52:57.24\00:52:58.81
and you feel you have
nothing to offer the multitudes,
00:52:58.84\00:53:00.61
you have to
consult Jesus about that.
00:53:00.64\00:53:02.81
Because he says we
have nothing to offer them.
00:53:02.84\00:53:05.01
But Jesus said, they
don't need to go away.
00:53:05.05\00:53:07.02
You need to give
them something to eat.
00:53:07.05\00:53:08.58
That's right. And then He says.
00:53:08.62\00:53:09.95
And they said,
00:53:09.98\00:53:11.32
we have only five
loaves and two fish,
00:53:11.35\00:53:13.79
it's all we have,
we don't have a lot.
00:53:13.82\00:53:16.16
Here's the encouraging thing.
00:53:16.19\00:53:17.69
You may feel that you don't
have a whole lot to work with,
00:53:17.73\00:53:20.46
but if you give
the Lord what you have,
00:53:20.50\00:53:23.77
He's going to divide it.
00:53:23.80\00:53:25.73
He's going to multiply
it. He's going to bless it.
00:53:25.77\00:53:29.27
And then the multitudes
will not only be filled.
00:53:29.30\00:53:32.31
But you'll have 12
baskets of fragments leftover
00:53:32.34\00:53:35.31
to give to more and more.
00:53:35.34\00:53:36.68
Here's the key.
00:53:36.71\00:53:38.05
The Lord will never multiply
what you don't give to Him.
00:53:38.08\00:53:39.41
That's right.
00:53:39.45\00:53:40.78
So people say, "What can I do?"
00:53:40.82\00:53:42.15
Story about the lady who
had prayed for a few years
00:53:42.18\00:53:44.45
for 100 people,
00:53:44.49\00:53:45.92
99 of them
actually got baptized.
00:53:45.95\00:53:49.29
And one a little while later.
00:53:49.32\00:53:51.83
But you can never have
00:53:51.86\00:53:53.19
any
multiplication of your gifts,
00:53:53.23\00:53:54.96
any expansion or
blessing of your gifts,
00:53:55.00\00:53:57.07
if you say this is all I have.
00:53:57.10\00:53:59.07
You know, and this is why vision
00:53:59.10\00:54:01.24
in the church,
establishing a vision,
00:54:01.27\00:54:02.60
a core vision for the
church and continually casting
00:54:02.64\00:54:04.57
that before them is really key,
00:54:04.61\00:54:06.84
because it's not just
the leaders developing a plan
00:54:06.88\00:54:09.41
to equip the members.
00:54:09.44\00:54:10.88
When they put something together
00:54:10.91\00:54:12.25
and they have a concerted event
00:54:12.28\00:54:14.58
that happens to help equip them.
00:54:14.62\00:54:16.69
Members don't show up.
00:54:16.72\00:54:19.05
And so as disciples of
Christ, we need to say,
00:54:19.09\00:54:21.46
"Hey, if the church is
going to complete that vision
00:54:21.49\00:54:23.93
or can reach that vision,
00:54:23.96\00:54:25.63
and I want to be a part of that,
00:54:25.66\00:54:27.00
I need to be
part of the process.
00:54:27.03\00:54:28.36
I need to come out,
00:54:28.40\00:54:29.73
when I have opportunities
to be able to learn
00:54:29.76\00:54:31.87
and grow my and
become equipped effectively
00:54:31.90\00:54:34.84
in my service for others."
00:54:34.87\00:54:37.94
That's right.
00:54:37.97\00:54:39.31
So yeah, important
things, mentoring, coaching,
00:54:39.34\00:54:43.28
putting together ministry teams,
00:54:43.31\00:54:44.88
developing the talents,
00:54:44.91\00:54:46.25
all those are part of equipping.
00:54:46.28\00:54:47.88
Because time is
slipping fast, let's go to sent.
00:54:47.92\00:54:50.05
Okay.
00:54:50.09\00:54:52.92
It says in Luke 10:1, 2,
00:54:52.95\00:54:54.76
"After these
things the Lord appointed
00:54:54.79\00:54:56.26
70 others also and sent
them two by two before his face
00:54:56.29\00:54:59.09
into every city and place,
00:54:59.13\00:55:00.46
where He himself
was about to go."
00:55:00.50\00:55:02.60
Verse 2, "Then He said to them,
00:55:02.63\00:55:04.00
"The harvest truly is
great, but the laborers are few,
00:55:04.03\00:55:07.10
therefore pray the Lord of
the harvest to send out..."
00:55:07.14\00:55:09.94
And I want to
focus on those words
00:55:09.97\00:55:11.31
"Send out
laborers into His harvest."
00:55:11.34\00:55:15.04
Those words send out,
00:55:15.08\00:55:16.71
sending out
laborers into the harvest
00:55:16.75\00:55:19.01
are the same words
that are used in the Greek
00:55:19.05\00:55:21.92
for casting out demons.
00:55:21.95\00:55:23.55
When Jesus cast out
demons, same word in the Greek.
00:55:23.59\00:55:29.09
This word, if you look it up
00:55:29.12\00:55:30.73
and you get
behind its true meaning,
00:55:30.76\00:55:33.83
what you'll find is
this word really is.
00:55:33.86\00:55:39.47
Well, the word
ekballo is an action word
00:55:39.50\00:55:42.47
that refers to
casting out, driving out,
00:55:42.50\00:55:45.64
pushing out to a place
00:55:45.67\00:55:48.54
that someone
doesn't currently reside.
00:55:48.58\00:55:51.91
But more than that,
here's the crazy thing John,
00:55:51.95\00:55:53.95
and this is where
00:55:53.98\00:55:55.32
some might feel a
little uncomfortable.
00:55:55.35\00:55:57.49
It could also be.
00:55:57.52\00:55:58.85
And it is often
against their will.
00:55:58.89\00:56:01.29
Here's what I take from that,
00:56:04.29\00:56:06.06
being sent out
is not comfortable.
00:56:06.09\00:56:10.47
No...
00:56:10.50\00:56:11.83
If you think you
should get comfortable first
00:56:11.87\00:56:13.20
before you go out,
you'll never go out.
00:56:13.23\00:56:14.87
Right.
00:56:14.90\00:56:16.24
Jesus has to drive
you out, push you out,
00:56:16.27\00:56:19.57
cast you out as
laborers to get you
00:56:19.61\00:56:23.61
even though
you're uncomfortable,
00:56:23.65\00:56:24.98
to get you to share your faith,
00:56:25.01\00:56:26.55
to do the work as disciples
of laboring in His field,
00:56:26.58\00:56:30.09
to bring a harvest in.
00:56:30.12\00:56:31.45
That's right.
00:56:31.49\00:56:32.82
It's not
comfortable, it's not easy,
00:56:32.85\00:56:35.92
but we're still called to do it.
00:56:35.96\00:56:37.89
So if you have this
idea as a disciple of Jesus,
00:56:37.93\00:56:40.50
I'm waiting for it
to get comfortable.
00:56:40.53\00:56:42.40
It'll never happen.
You've got to get out there.
00:56:42.43\00:56:45.23
Let Christ drive you
out into His harvest field,
00:56:45.27\00:56:48.67
and allow Him to teach
you to provide the examples
00:56:48.70\00:56:51.51
and to show you as you
begin to minister to others.
00:56:51.54\00:56:55.51
That's right. He
has to send us out.
00:56:55.54\00:56:57.85
And when He sends us out,
00:56:57.88\00:56:59.61
He doesn't send us out to fail.
00:56:59.65\00:57:01.82
He says, "Lo, I
am with you always."
00:57:01.85\00:57:03.79
This idea of, you
got to follow those steps
00:57:03.82\00:57:07.02
and I'm going to
reiterate them very quickly.
00:57:07.06\00:57:08.52
You have to connect
the vine to the branch,
00:57:08.56\00:57:11.49
you have to grow in
grace and knowledge.
00:57:11.53\00:57:14.66
You have to equip.
00:57:14.70\00:57:16.03
You have to make sure that
00:57:16.06\00:57:17.40
you are equipping
your mind with God's Word.
00:57:17.43\00:57:19.73
He blesses what
you bring to Him.
00:57:19.77\00:57:22.37
He'll multiply.
00:57:22.40\00:57:23.74
Then He'll send you out
as laborers into the harvest.
00:57:23.77\00:57:25.94
And He promises
that you will never fail,
00:57:25.97\00:57:28.28
you will always succeed.
00:57:28.31\00:57:29.64
That's right.
00:57:29.68\00:57:31.01
So my appeal to
everyone who has heard this is,
00:57:31.05\00:57:34.52
look at your own church.
00:57:34.55\00:57:35.88
That's right.
00:57:35.92\00:57:37.25
Are you doing these four things?
00:57:37.29\00:57:38.62
Are these four
things part of your process
00:57:38.65\00:57:40.02
of making disciples?
00:57:40.06\00:57:42.32
If they're not, I would get back
00:57:42.36\00:57:44.49
to the drawing board
and start to institute
00:57:44.53\00:57:47.10
or put into place those things.
00:57:47.13\00:57:49.20
And on the other side of that,
00:57:49.23\00:57:50.57
you could probably
invite Pastor Stanton
00:57:50.60\00:57:51.93
to come to your church.
00:57:51.97\00:57:53.30
He's easily accessible
00:57:53.34\00:57:54.67
on the Upper
Columbia Conference,
00:57:54.70\00:57:56.04
not a plug for him,
00:57:56.07\00:57:57.41
but in fact we pray
that God will cause you
00:57:57.44\00:57:59.11
to be effective
disciples in His kingdom.
00:57:59.14\00:58:01.74
May God bless you
until we see you again.
00:58:01.78\00:58:03.61