Hello, friends. Grab your Bible
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and a friend and sit
back as we explore God's word
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together on this
edition of House Calls.
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Know you haven't made a mistake,
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this is the correct channel,
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this is 3ABN's House
Calls program with John and John
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So welcome to the
most exciting place
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to be at this time of
the day, wherever you are
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and whatever country
you're tuning in from.
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Thank you so much for
tuning into House Calls.
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I've got my good
friend John with me today.
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John, how are you doing today?
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Yeah, I'm doing great.
It's good to be here, John.
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You look healthy and
alive, that's a good thing.
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And you, you as
well. Lord is blessing you.
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Praise God for that
and we have some people
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that have taken the
time to tune in today.
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And I hope you have your Bibles,
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get your pens, your papers.
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And don't forget
we like questions,
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think about those,
because we have some
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great questions for you today.
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Before we go and
continue our topic
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on why so many denominations.
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If you have missed
any of the past ones,
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you can contact 3ABN
and surely they'll try to
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find a way get that to you.
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But before we do questions,
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before we go to the Bible,
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we always go to
the Lord in prayer.
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John, pray for us
today. Be happy to.
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Father in heaven we
are blessed once again
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to be part of this program
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and not just we who
are presenting the program,
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but those who are listening
or viewing this program
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wherever they
are. Lord, I just pray
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that you would bring
the power of your spirit,
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Lord, to each one of us.
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Guide and direct
us through your word,
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which is a lamp unto our
feet and a light into our path.
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Lord, may it ever be so,
and especially throughout
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these times where we
have an opportunity to answer
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questions and to cover a topic
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we believe is important,
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we believe also you
believe it's important.
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Thank you, Father, lead
and guide us into truth,
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in Jesus name, amen. Amen.
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And don't forget now,
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questions are very
important to our program,
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we often receive
them via Internet,
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that is at House Calls.
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And so if you have any questions
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you want to sent to us,
send them to housecalls@3abn.org
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that's the
address on your screen.
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housecalls@3abn.org
and it comes through
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something called the Internet,
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it's a great
medium of communication.
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But if you don't have
the Internet where you are,
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and you prefer
to send it by mail,
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you can send it
to us in envelope,
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just address to House
Calls, to 3ABN, PO Box 220,
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West Frankfort, IL, 62896.
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But this is the
fun part of the program
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as well as a very
important part of the program.
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So, John, what is our
first question for today?
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Well, it's a question
that it has come up before,
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I don't think
we've answered it before.
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But this comes from
Langton and he's asking us,
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was Jesus really
crucified on the cross or stake,
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a pole, some sects
say the use of the cross
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is pagan and the biblical cross
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is a
mistranslation, is this a fact?
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And this comes
to us from Zimbabwe.
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Thank you very much
for sending this question.
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You know the Bible
is fairly clear uses
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the word cross
over and over again,
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and I know that
some have suggested
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that it's a mistranslation
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but the other supporting
part of this that it's
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sometimes
ignored is the tradition.
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And how far it
goes back of the church
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and its understanding of
how Christ was crucified. Okay.
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The Roman
tradition of crucifixion
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was around for
a long, long time.
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And going back and
looking at that Roman tradition,
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I know there are
some disputes as to
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what the cross
actually look like,
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was the pole extending
up beyond the horizontal
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part of the cross or was it not,
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was it more like a T,
you know some debate that,
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but for the most
part it's pretty well
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understood
throughout history the cross
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and whole crucifixion
experience by the Romans
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who have been
doing it for a long time.
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Nailed or roped people to
two pieces of wood one vertical,
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that's stuck into the
ground, one horizontal,
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so the armscould be
overlapped over that.
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And that was
what the crucifixion
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of the cross was all about.
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Jesus was crucified,
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that is clear and so
we do know that cross,
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the word cross is not
pagan and origin per se.
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It maybe considered
pagan if you wanna go back to
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that it was a Roman
type of death penalty.
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But as far as what
Christ was crucified
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on it was absolutely a cross.
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So I don't see that as
a mistranslation, John.
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The cross is interesting,
because people sometimes
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get hung up on
what Jesus crucified on.
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Some say it was the
T, which is the symbol
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for the Latin letter Tau.
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Others say, it
was a torture stake,
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you know the
Jehovah's Witness commonly
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use the phrase, torture stake.
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Throughout the
course of human history,
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as well as Christian
history, many have said,
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well, since Jesus
died for us on the cross
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let us make the
cross our symbol.
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I think the problem
comes in the minds of many
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when the Christian uses
the cross as their symbol,
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when in fact the cross
was never a Christian symbol.
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But it was a symbol of,
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it was the altar
of torture to Gods
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that did not
represent the God of heaven,
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that's why the
Romans choose that.
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But crucifixion was actually
introduced by the Persians.
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And by the time it got
to Rome, you have Babylon,
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Medo-Persia,
Greece and then Rome.
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Rome studied it to
find out how they can get
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the most impact from
their victims that were being
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hung on the cross.
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And so it's more likely that
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it was in the
shape of the letter T,
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this way because the victims
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had no place to lean
their head back in most cases
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so their heads hung and
the arms are draped over,
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so that it would just
make it almost difficult
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or impossible for
the victims to breathe,
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thus having to
push down on their legs
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and excruciating pain
from the fact that their legs
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were also nailed
one up above the other.
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And the hands were
nailed in the wrist.
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So they pulled up every aspect
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of it was continual pain.
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So it was a torture,
a torturous experience.
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However, just to kind of go
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back in the sense of memorial,
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people say the cross is
where my redemption was paid,
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the cross is where the sacrifice
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for my sins were made,
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the cross is to me somewhat
of my Statue of Liberty.
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And so I could see how
it has become representative
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of the greatest level of
sacrifice and self-denial
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that anyone can ever
express to save humanity.
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That's why the
cross has maintained today
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such a revere
among many Christians.
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And it continues on because,
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you know even
Jesus said that those
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who want to follow Him
will take up their cross. Right.
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And follow Him, so we
ourselves have to endure
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our own
experience of death to self.
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And a bearing of
the cross as we go on in
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following Christ as
one of his disciples.
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You know, one of the texts
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that really jumps out at
me, when I think of the cross
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and I think of scripture
is 1 Corinthians 1:18 it says,
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"For the message of
the cross is foolishness
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to those who are perishing,
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but to us who are being saved,
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it is the power of God."
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The cross isn't
the power of God,
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it's the message of the cross,
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that's the power of God.
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And so the
symbol of the cross is,
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strength to those
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who understand
the message behind it.
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The symbol, as
far as what is it,
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it simply represents torture,
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you know the way that
the Romans killed Christ.
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But if it wasn't for
that death He died for us,
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the message goes we
would not have salvation,
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we would not have redemption.
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And so, praise the
Lord, Jesus did accept that,
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that death did
sacrifices Himself
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and that was all for us.
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And I think you've
answered the question
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very, very
well, thank you, John.
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We have another
question here from Marty,
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Marty and it doesn't
say where Mary is from.
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But let me go ahead
and read the question. Oh!
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Sorry, that's not the
one I want to get to first,
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I want to get to this one
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from the Donnelly
first, in Jamaica.
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Hey, welcome Jamaica,
now that's not the way to say
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welcome Jamaica, 'ya mon.'
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My wife is Jamaican,
for those of you in Jamaica,
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forgive me, I
didn't say that correctly,
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but we're so glad that
you're tuning in from Jamaica.
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Here is the question,
it is so wonderful to be
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able to send in
my Bible questions
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to you on House Calls.
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May the Holy Spirit
continue to use you both
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in his service for
such a time as this.
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Thank you very
much. Praise the Lord.
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I would like you to
please expand on Isaiah 48:10,
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specifically the
latter part of the text
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which says, I have chosen
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the in the
furnace of affliction.
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Please explain for me
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as I have not been
able to understand it.
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First, let me start
with probably one of the most
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commonly repeated
stories in the Bible,
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you know being raised
we heard phrase of Daniel
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in the lion's den, the
Hebrews in the fiery furnace.
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When you think of Isaiah 48,
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Isaiah was a contemporary,
a contemporary prophet.
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Meaning, many of
the things that were
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experienced by
Jeremiah, Hosea, you know Hosea,
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Daniel were not
too distance separated.
00:10:04.92\00:10:08.90
And so when you think
of the fiery trials, these,
00:10:08.91\00:10:12.00
these phrases
were mostly associated
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with the affliction that
was experienced by the Hebrews.
00:10:14.90\00:10:18.52
And you know there
in Daniel 3 and verse 6.
00:10:18.53\00:10:22.26
They were warned that
if they refused to worship
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the image, they will
be cast immediately into
00:10:25.48\00:10:28.16
the burning fiery furnace.
00:10:28.17\00:10:30.89
But when you look
at Isaiah 48 it says,
00:10:30.90\00:10:33.60
I've chosen thee in
the furnace of affliction.
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What was the furnace of
affliction for the Hebrews?
00:10:37.37\00:10:39.54
That burning fiery furnace,
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however the phrase extends
beyond the fiery furnace,
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because there
are those who are not
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delivered from the
fire, but like the Hebrews,
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they're delivered in the fire.
00:10:51.32\00:10:54.11
So sometimes and just last
week I was saying to someone
00:10:54.12\00:10:57.10
we often pray for God to remove
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our trials and
remove our afflictions,
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remove our stumblings,
the things that really
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become irritations
to us as Christians.
00:11:04.14\00:11:06.84
But, sometimes the
very thing that God
00:11:06.85\00:11:10.27
has allowed to come
your way is for his glory.
00:11:10.28\00:11:13.02
I use the example of the
Hebrews in the fiery furnace,
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had Nebuchadnezzar not seen
00:11:15.23\00:11:17.10
them be delivered in the fire.
00:11:17.11\00:11:19.58
Then Nebuchadnezzar
would not have extolled
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and exalted the God of Shadrach,
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Meshach and Abednego.
00:11:24.96\00:11:26.29
So, do we have a
furnace of affliction?
00:11:26.30\00:11:29.46
Everyone of us does.
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Here's some text
to encourage you.
00:11:31.91\00:11:34.48
1 Peter 4 and
verse 12, "Beloved,
00:11:34.49\00:11:37.94
do not think it strange
concerning the fiery trial,
00:11:37.95\00:11:42.42
which is to try
you as though some
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strange thing happened to you."
00:11:45.18\00:11:47.93
So do we go
through fiery trials?
00:11:47.94\00:11:50.01
Have you had any,
John? Plenty, yes.
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I tell you, it's a
part of this journey.
00:11:52.61\00:11:54.59
And the major
reason why it's a part
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of our Christian journey
is not because we did anything
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wrong, but because God
is seeking to purify us.
00:11:59.46\00:12:03.82
Here's another
one, Ephesians 6:16,
00:12:03.83\00:12:06.60
"above all, taking
the shield of faith with
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which you will be able to quench
00:12:09.41\00:12:11.21
the fiery darts
of the wicked one."
00:12:11.22\00:12:13.42
Now the fiery darts
are to keep you from being
00:12:13.43\00:12:17.12
consumed in those
trials, but the fiery trials are
00:12:17.13\00:12:20.78
sometimes allowed to
prepare you for the kingdom.
00:12:20.79\00:12:23.81
So they are a
point of purification,
00:12:23.82\00:12:26.89
a point of separating
the draws from the pure goal.
00:12:26.90\00:12:30.83
So that's simply
what Isaiah 48 means.
00:12:30.84\00:12:34.59
God chooses us in the
furnace of affliction,
00:12:34.60\00:12:37.81
or specifically
sometimes how the Hebrew
00:12:37.82\00:12:40.18
may say it there,
00:12:40.19\00:12:41.21
in the furnace of
affliction we become the chosen.
00:12:41.22\00:12:45.19
And what that means
is, how can we be chosen
00:12:45.20\00:12:48.40
of God if the
impurities are not separated.
00:12:48.41\00:12:51.06
So in the furnace of affliction
00:12:51.07\00:12:53.13
we are being
developed as the chosen.
00:12:53.14\00:12:55.83
To miss the process of fire,
00:12:55.84\00:12:58.30
to miss the
process of purification,
00:12:58.31\00:13:00.98
matter of fact, go with
me to Revelation Chapter 3,
00:13:00.99\00:13:04.72
John, you may
want to turn there.
00:13:04.73\00:13:08.03
This illustrates
the point very well,
00:13:08.04\00:13:11.21
Revelation Chapter 3.
00:13:11.22\00:13:13.56
Let me see if I need
my glasses on this one.
00:13:13.57\00:13:15.73
Yes, here it
is, Revelation 3:18.
00:13:19.83\00:13:24.07
"I counsel you" Jesus says,
00:13:24.08\00:13:26.25
"to buy from Me gold
tried or refined in the fire,
00:13:26.26\00:13:32.29
that you may be rich."
00:13:32.30\00:13:33.90
Now gold, if you've
gold you're rich already,
00:13:33.94\00:13:37.82
but if you have refined
gold you really are rich.
00:13:37.83\00:13:41.75
What that means is when
a prospector gets gold out
00:13:41.76\00:13:43.83
of the ground, it's in one form,
00:13:43.84\00:13:45.71
but it has a lot
of impurities in it.
00:13:45.72\00:13:47.63
But when that gold is purified,
00:13:47.64\00:13:49.89
its what's called pure gold,
00:13:49.90\00:13:52.45
or as a person
may say, solid gold.
00:13:52.46\00:13:56.30
No pits in it, no
rocks in it, no sand in it.
00:13:56.31\00:14:00.56
And that's the reason,
00:14:00.57\00:14:02.05
the great reason
for fiery trials.
00:14:02.06\00:14:04.95
The Lord separates
from us all those things
00:14:04.96\00:14:07.37
that only trials can separate.
00:14:07.38\00:14:10.52
John, for example,
you think about a person
00:14:10.53\00:14:12.81
going through
difficulty, when a person goes
00:14:12.82\00:14:15.07
through difficulty,
you know what happens?
00:14:15.08\00:14:17.08
All of a sudden their
prayer life becomes genuine.
00:14:17.09\00:14:21.03
You know, you don't
pray you know Father,
00:14:21.04\00:14:22.50
thank you the
food, thank you for the--
00:14:22.51\00:14:24.78
You pray, Lord.
Earnestly, more serious.
00:14:24.79\00:14:27.86
That's right, I mean,
00:14:27.87\00:14:29.23
so what do you think about that?
00:14:29.24\00:14:30.47
Well, we've all gone
through those moments
00:14:30.48\00:14:32.67
where we just feel
like, you know, Lord,
00:14:32.68\00:14:36.24
where are you?
00:14:36.25\00:14:37.22
I'm desperate, I need you now.
00:14:37.23\00:14:38.67
And the heartfelt earnest
pleadings of a child to God,
00:14:38.68\00:14:44.16
you know or
something the God clearly
00:14:44.17\00:14:45.63
has asked us to do.
00:14:45.64\00:14:47.81
I mean, to appeal
to him as our Father.
00:14:47.82\00:14:51.02
And so we do that
sometimes as children
00:14:51.03\00:14:53.75
do with their
fathers, daddy help! Right.
00:14:53.76\00:14:56.06
And at those moments
especially when we are in
00:14:56.07\00:14:58.35
the midst of fiery
trials is when God responds
00:14:58.36\00:15:01.05
and blesses in accordance
with the prayer of faith.
00:15:01.06\00:15:05.36
And so these trials
drive us to practice our faith
00:15:05.37\00:15:09.78
not just be a
everyday, yes, I believe,
00:15:09.79\00:15:12.94
thank you Lord, like
you said, for this food,
00:15:12.95\00:15:14.81
and for all the
things you've done for me
00:15:14.82\00:15:16.38
and how you bless me.
00:15:16.39\00:15:17.83
But a true
practice, an earnestness
00:15:17.84\00:15:19.94
to our faith
that moves mountains.
00:15:19.95\00:15:22.66
And in many case those
mountains are our fiery
00:15:22.67\00:15:25.46
trials that are right
in front of us that only
00:15:25.47\00:15:27.91
can be changed by
God. That's right.
00:15:27.92\00:15:29.85
And we find out who we are,
00:15:29.86\00:15:32.00
God doesn't find out who we are,
00:15:32.01\00:15:34.04
we find out out who we
are when trials come our way,
00:15:34.05\00:15:36.32
God knows who we are.
00:15:36.33\00:15:37.33
Sometimes he allows
those fiery trials to come
00:15:37.34\00:15:39.61
so that we can
see who we really are.
00:15:39.62\00:15:42.80
Just, if you ask
somebody the question,
00:15:42.81\00:15:46.16
this is very
sensitive, and I know this is,
00:15:46.17\00:15:48.01
I'm gonna use this example,
00:15:48.02\00:15:49.30
because my sister
work, still today works with
00:15:49.31\00:15:52.04
the fire
department of New York City.
00:15:52.05\00:15:53.44
And one of the most
atrocious experiences
00:15:53.45\00:15:55.69
were the World Trade
Center incident there
00:15:55.70\00:15:58.77
and also in Washington DC.
00:15:58.78\00:16:01.62
But the atrocities that
happened in New York City
00:16:01.63\00:16:04.72
were when people--
If you ask somebody,
00:16:04.73\00:16:07.44
would you have a jump out
off the World Trade Center?
00:16:07.45\00:16:09.49
Would you have a jump off
00:16:09.50\00:16:10.47
the roof of the
World Trade Center?
00:16:10.48\00:16:11.45
Would you have a jump
out of a building that high?
00:16:11.46\00:16:13.46
People would say absolutely not.
00:16:13.47\00:16:16.55
The sad sensitive reality was,
00:16:16.56\00:16:20.31
when the fire was
lapping against them,
00:16:20.32\00:16:23.47
people made
decisions that they would not
00:16:23.48\00:16:25.30
normally make under
normal circumstances.
00:16:25.31\00:16:28.68
In the very same way
when trials come our way
00:16:28.69\00:16:32.31
we decide at that
moment whether or not
00:16:32.32\00:16:36.85
we're gonna continue in
the course that we went down
00:16:36.86\00:16:39.55
haphazardly, or whether
not we're gonna now begin
00:16:39.56\00:16:42.33
to serve God in great sincerity.
00:16:42.34\00:16:44.01
But you know what friends?
00:16:44.02\00:16:45.24
Those decisions are
not develop at that moment,
00:16:45.25\00:16:48.04
they are developed
long before that moment.
00:16:48.05\00:16:50.99
The Hebrews decided
before they got in the fire,
00:16:51.00\00:16:54.02
God can deliver us,
but even if he doesn't,
00:16:54.03\00:16:56.27
we're gonna
continue to serve Him anyway.
00:16:56.28\00:16:58.16
So what's the
furnace of affliction?
00:16:58.17\00:17:00.52
The furnace of
affliction is the place
00:17:00.53\00:17:02.42
where you begin
to see who you are.
00:17:02.43\00:17:05.00
You begin to understand
what your great need is
00:17:05.01\00:17:07.67
and you also begin
to experience the power
00:17:07.68\00:17:10.08
of God to deliver
you. Amen, very good.
00:17:10.09\00:17:14.51
John, I have a question
here that it's in regard
00:17:14.52\00:17:17.20
to Revelation Chapter 19. Okay.
00:17:17.21\00:17:20.10
Verses 20 and 21 and
they're just asking for
00:17:20.11\00:17:23.89
us to dialogue a little
bit here to help clarify
00:17:23.90\00:17:26.09
some of the
things that are going on.
00:17:26.10\00:17:28.50
I'll go ahead and
read those. All right.
00:17:28.51\00:17:30.57
And then I will
read another passage
00:17:30.58\00:17:32.50
from Revelation 20
that is very similar
00:17:32.51\00:17:34.78
and then we can share
a few things about that.
00:17:34.79\00:17:37.72
It says in
Revelation 19 verse 20,
00:17:37.73\00:17:41.09
and by the way just for context,
00:17:41.10\00:17:42.82
this is right on the
heels of Christ's Second Coming.
00:17:42.83\00:17:46.46
So Christ returns,
00:17:46.47\00:17:47.95
if you look a few
verses before that,
00:17:47.96\00:17:50.00
He returns as King of
Kings and Lord of Lords,
00:17:50.01\00:17:52.91
He is called the Word of God.
00:17:52.92\00:17:55.24
Verse 13, and "out of His mouth
00:17:55.25\00:17:57.64
is a sharp sword, " verse 15.
00:17:57.65\00:17:59.59
"That He would
strike the nations.
00:17:59.60\00:18:00.90
And He will rule
them with a rod of iron."
00:18:00.91\00:18:03.20
Then it shows in verse
20 and 21 that here is what
00:18:03.21\00:18:07.45
happens to the beast
and the false prophet
00:18:07.46\00:18:10.03
who were deceiving the people,
00:18:10.04\00:18:11.93
the inhabitants of the earth.
00:18:11.94\00:18:13.92
"Then the beast was captured,
00:18:13.93\00:18:15.41
and with him the false prophet
00:18:15.42\00:18:18.06
who worked
signs in his presence,
00:18:18.07\00:18:20.53
by which he deceived those
00:18:20.54\00:18:22.12
who received the
mark of the beast
00:18:22.13\00:18:24.12
and those who
worshiped his image.
00:18:24.13\00:18:26.39
These two were cast
alive into the lake of fire
00:18:26.40\00:18:29.61
burning with brimstone.
00:18:29.62\00:18:31.70
And the rest were
killed with the sword
00:18:31.71\00:18:33.80
which proceeded
from the mouth of Him
00:18:33.81\00:18:36.16
who sat on the horse.
00:18:36.17\00:18:37.69
And all the birds were
filled with their flesh."
00:18:37.70\00:18:41.58
Now if you look in Chapter 20,
00:18:41.59\00:18:44.13
verse 10 it
talks about the devil,
00:18:44.14\00:18:47.59
"who deceived them, was
cast into the lake of fire
00:18:47.60\00:18:50.52
and brimstone where the beast
00:18:50.53\00:18:52.70
and the false prophet are.
00:18:52.71\00:18:55.72
And they will be tormented
00:18:55.73\00:18:57.28
day and night forever and ever."
00:18:57.29\00:18:58.58
So it looks like, it
appears like in Chapter 19
00:18:58.59\00:19:02.83
that the beast and the
false prophet are thrown
00:19:02.84\00:19:04.68
into the lake of fire first.
00:19:04.69\00:19:06.41
Then the devil who also
were part of that coalition,
00:19:06.42\00:19:11.29
the antichrist coalition. Right.
00:19:11.30\00:19:13.07
The false trinity were
thrown in with them after that.
00:19:13.08\00:19:16.87
Now just a few thoughts on this.
00:19:16.88\00:19:19.45
First of all, Revelation
20 it says the beast was
00:19:19.46\00:19:22.75
captured and
within the false prophet
00:19:22.76\00:19:24.15
who worked
signs in his presence.
00:19:24.16\00:19:26.14
This is clearly
identify the beast from the sea
00:19:26.15\00:19:29.42
and the beast from the earth,
00:19:29.43\00:19:30.89
it comes up out of the
earth in Revelation Chapter 13.
00:19:30.90\00:19:33.13
We know that
because the second beast,
00:19:33.14\00:19:36.66
the one that comes out of
earth beginning in verse 11,
00:19:36.67\00:19:38.89
it says that he worked signs
in the presence of the beast.
00:19:38.90\00:19:43.10
That is the
beast that came before,
00:19:43.11\00:19:44.53
the one that rose
up from the sea. Right.
00:19:44.54\00:19:46.42
So we know then that
the beast and the false
00:19:46.43\00:19:48.76
prophet are the beast
from the sea that arises
00:19:48.77\00:19:51.44
from the sea and the beast
that arises from the earth.
00:19:51.45\00:19:54.94
Now the other beast we find,
00:19:54.95\00:19:57.71
actually the other
person involved is the devil.
00:19:57.72\00:20:02.16
And it says in
Chapter 16 verse 15,
00:20:02.17\00:20:07.33
that the devil is in coalition
00:20:07.34\00:20:12.18
with these other two powers.
00:20:12.19\00:20:15.98
In fact verse 14, verse 13,
00:20:15.99\00:20:18.12
I'm sorry I'm gonna backup,
00:20:18.13\00:20:19.10
verse 13 of
Chapter 16 it says the,
00:20:19.11\00:20:21.95
"three unclean spirits
like frogs coming up out
00:20:21.96\00:20:25.12
of the mouth of the dragon,
00:20:25.13\00:20:26.93
out of the mouth of the beast,
00:20:26.94\00:20:28.22
and out of the mouth
of the false prophet.
00:20:28.23\00:20:31.10
Identify the beast
and the false prophet,
00:20:31.11\00:20:33.60
the dragon we know from
Chapter 12 is who? Satan.
00:20:33.61\00:20:37.08
The devil, Satan so.
00:20:37.09\00:20:38.30
You have all three appearing
00:20:38.31\00:20:39.82
in Chapter 19 verses 20 and 21
00:20:39.83\00:20:43.47
and Chapter 20 verse 10 all
00:20:43.48\00:20:46.57
ending up in the lake of fire.
00:20:46.60\00:20:48.98
But the question is,
you know who not just
00:20:48.99\00:20:51.61
who are these entities,
the question here talks about
00:20:51.62\00:20:54.66
these entities
being the Church of Rome,
00:20:54.67\00:20:59.25
the first beast
coming up out of the sea,
00:20:59.26\00:21:01.76
apostate Protestantism,
which is the false
00:21:01.77\00:21:05.80
prophet that supports her.
00:21:05.81\00:21:08.54
They unite as a
false system under Babylon.
00:21:08.55\00:21:13.72
But the question is you know
00:21:13.73\00:21:14.72
what is the
timing of these things?
00:21:14.73\00:21:16.90
Because it sure seems
like that the lake of fire
00:21:16.91\00:21:19.93
is there at the
Second Coming to destroy
00:21:19.94\00:21:22.76
the beast and the false prophet.
00:21:22.77\00:21:25.83
Or the dragon or the devil
is thrown into the same lake
00:21:25.84\00:21:30.12
of fire in the Third
Coming of Christ in Chapter 20.
00:21:30.13\00:21:33.23
How do we resolve this?
00:21:33.24\00:21:34.90
Well, if they're asking
for chronology of destruction,
00:21:34.91\00:21:36.87
the beauty of that
is we have something
00:21:36.88\00:21:39.66
that encapsulates
both of these descriptions
00:21:39.67\00:21:42.64
called the Battle of Armageddon.
00:21:42.65\00:21:44.25
The Battle of Armageddon
is a progressive battle,
00:21:44.26\00:21:46.95
that the last act that
would be the destruction
00:21:46.96\00:21:50.64
of all the powers of deception.
00:21:50.65\00:21:54.39
I often point out
that Satan uses only two
00:21:54.40\00:21:56.89
tactics,
deception and destruction.
00:21:56.90\00:21:58.89
So from the time
he began his campaign
00:21:58.90\00:22:02.38
of destruction in heaven
00:22:02.39\00:22:04.18
he followed up
by everything else,
00:22:04.19\00:22:06.01
everything else
that followed that was
00:22:06.02\00:22:07.76
always in the
cloak of deception.
00:22:07.77\00:22:09.30
So let's go ahead and get this,
00:22:09.31\00:22:10.83
John is giving
you pictures here in
00:22:10.84\00:22:12.81
Revelation 19, the
reason why John inserts that in
00:22:12.82\00:22:15.77
Revelation 19 is
because Revelation 19 is about
00:22:15.78\00:22:17.81
the Second Coming of Christ.
00:22:17.82\00:22:19.54
Revelation 19 is about
the Battle of Armageddon,
00:22:19.55\00:22:21.39
that actual war.
00:22:21.40\00:22:22.81
So when you
look in Revelation 19
00:22:22.82\00:22:24.37
it's outlining
rider on the white horse,
00:22:24.38\00:22:26.51
what is the result of the,
00:22:26.52\00:22:27.92
what is the result of
Satan's army attacking
00:22:27.93\00:22:31.48
the angels of heaven and Christ?
00:22:31.49\00:22:33.98
What's the result?
00:22:33.99\00:22:34.96
They're gonna
thrown in a lake of fire.
00:22:34.97\00:22:36.11
Then in Revelation 20 it shows,
00:22:36.12\00:22:38.35
when are they gonna
thrown in the lake of fire.
00:22:38.36\00:22:40.57
Okay, I like your point,
because the when isn't in 19,
00:22:40.58\00:22:44.53
the when is in 20. Exactly.
00:22:44.54\00:22:45.72
That the reason why it
appears in 19 as it does.
00:22:45.73\00:22:48.71
End of the battle.
00:22:48.72\00:22:49.69
Is because, well
the end of the battle,
00:22:49.70\00:22:51.51
but also you're talking
about an event that is on
00:22:51.52\00:22:53.91
the heels of the
seven last plagues. Exactly.
00:22:53.92\00:22:56.34
And the reason for
the seven last plagues
00:22:56.35\00:22:57.81
is the
destruction of the Babylon.
00:22:57.82\00:22:59.67
Okay, the punishment of Babylon,
00:22:59.68\00:23:02.89
those forces of the
earth that are deceiving
00:23:02.90\00:23:05.83
the earth and
causing them to be destroyed.
00:23:05.84\00:23:10.34
So what you have here
in 19 is Jesus going after
00:23:10.35\00:23:14.70
those two powers on
the earth that have been
00:23:14.71\00:23:17.51
established by the
devil to deceive the world.
00:23:17.52\00:23:20.30
And we also know,
here is one thing that's
00:23:20.31\00:23:21.94
interesting, John,
we known that those
00:23:21.95\00:23:24.28
who receive the
mark of the beast receive
00:23:24.29\00:23:25.84
it on their hand and where else?
00:23:25.85\00:23:29.21
In their forehead. That's right.
00:23:29.22\00:23:30.96
So they are those
who acquiesce or join
00:23:30.97\00:23:34.16
in the propaganda and
the teachings of the beast
00:23:34.17\00:23:39.85
and the false prophet.
00:23:39.86\00:23:41.08
And then there are
those who simply go along
00:23:41.09\00:23:42.98
because they
don't wanna to receive,
00:23:42.99\00:23:44.34
or they don't wanna
be persecuted as God's
00:23:44.35\00:23:47.70
people are persecuted.
00:23:47.71\00:23:48.98
And it's
interesting we find in verse 21,
00:23:48.99\00:23:50.89
"that the rest were
killed with the sword
00:23:50.90\00:23:53.59
which proceeded
from the mouth of Him
00:23:53.60\00:23:55.14
who sat on the horse."
00:23:55.15\00:23:56.12
They didn't believe
the teachings of the beast
00:23:56.13\00:23:59.63
and the false prophet,
but when Christ came back
00:23:59.64\00:24:02.29
He judged them by the
sword which we know is
00:24:02.30\00:24:05.19
the word of God and
they didn't believe that word
00:24:05.20\00:24:09.15
so they were judged
in accordance with that.
00:24:09.16\00:24:10.77
I would suggest to
you that the systems
00:24:10.78\00:24:14.14
and those that unite with it
are destroyed in 20 and in 21
00:24:14.15\00:24:19.74
you are finding the
rest of those who didn't
00:24:19.75\00:24:21.51
join but just went along
00:24:21.52\00:24:23.05
within their
forehead and forearms.
00:24:23.06\00:24:25.06
They received the mark
there were also killed. Right.
00:24:25.07\00:24:28.08
By Christ, by the sword
that came out of his mouth.
00:24:28.09\00:24:29.94
So you see those
two groups destroyed,
00:24:29.95\00:24:31.65
but the timing of that is in 20.
00:24:31.66\00:24:33.54
And I like the way
you said that, John.
00:24:33.55\00:24:35.05
Yeah, and so, so the
reason why 90 is put the way,
00:24:35.09\00:24:37.98
because that's the war.
00:24:37.99\00:24:39.41
A lot of people talk
about let's see this battle.
00:24:39.42\00:24:41.24
In Revelation
Chapter 19 let's see battle,
00:24:41.25\00:24:43.75
there is the battle
going on in full array,
00:24:43.76\00:24:46.20
who are the two sides?
00:24:46.21\00:24:47.18
Christ on the white
horse and all the angels
00:24:47.19\00:24:49.35
following him,
His entire military,
00:24:49.36\00:24:51.72
then you have the
Kings of the earth
00:24:51.73\00:24:53.31
and the reason why
Revelation 16 is important.
00:24:53.32\00:24:55.18
The Kings of the earth, well,
00:24:55.19\00:24:56.66
how do they get
gathered together?
00:24:56.67\00:24:58.76
By unclean spirits,
so you have all these
00:24:58.77\00:25:01.81
components and you
look at the word war in
00:25:01.82\00:25:04.15
Revelation is
mentioned eight times.
00:25:04.16\00:25:05.86
From the first time it's
introduced it talks about
00:25:05.87\00:25:08.10
the beast that ascends out
of the bottomless pit wars,
00:25:08.11\00:25:11.94
see then you talk
about Revelation that war
00:25:11.95\00:25:14.33
started in heaven,
then he's gonna war against,
00:25:14.34\00:25:16.39
again against God's people.
00:25:16.40\00:25:17.82
So each aspect of that
war is added onto the picture.
00:25:17.83\00:25:22.32
The other one he goes
to war with them, why?
00:25:22.33\00:25:24.91
So the reason for the
war is in Revelation 12:17.
00:25:24.92\00:25:29.17
The one who is appears
to be mighty in the war is
00:25:29.18\00:25:34.25
introduced in
Revelation Chapter 13.
00:25:34.26\00:25:35.87
Who is like the beast,
00:25:35.88\00:25:37.14
who was able to
make war with them?
00:25:37.15\00:25:38.85
The question is
answered later on.
00:25:38.86\00:25:41.89
In Revelation 19, who is
able to make war with him?
00:25:41.90\00:25:44.28
Christ is able to
make war with him.
00:25:44.29\00:25:46.01
So you begin look at
the progression of it.
00:25:46.02\00:25:47.79
He will make war with the lamb,
00:25:47.80\00:25:49.12
but the lamb will
overcome in Revelation 17.
00:25:49.13\00:25:52.44
So you see all the
introductions of this war.
00:25:52.45\00:25:54.94
And in Revelation 19
shows the actual war,
00:25:54.95\00:25:58.14
in Revelation 20 shows the end
00:25:58.15\00:26:00.83
result of losing that battle.
00:26:00.84\00:26:03.27
You get thrown in the fire,
00:26:03.28\00:26:04.28
that's the end
result of losing the battle.
00:26:04.29\00:26:06.46
The other thing
here too is that,
00:26:06.47\00:26:07.85
I think the last one
to be punished and that is
00:26:07.86\00:26:11.13
acknowledged at least or
seen by all is the devil.
00:26:11.14\00:26:13.51
And so the timing of
it all the lake of fire is
00:26:13.52\00:26:16.58
kindled, timing wise in 20.
00:26:16.59\00:26:19.26
We know the systems
that he uses to support
00:26:19.27\00:26:22.52
the deception on
this earth are destroyed
00:26:22.53\00:26:24.74
at the Second Coming of Christ.
00:26:24.75\00:26:26.73
So another reason for
the separation of or at least
00:26:26.74\00:26:29.02
talking of the beast
and the false prophet in 19
00:26:29.03\00:26:31.28
and then the devil in 20.
00:26:31.29\00:26:34.08
So I hope that
answers a little bit of the
00:26:34.09\00:26:36.47
question at least
to give some insight,
00:26:36.48\00:26:38.17
that are inside is
to what's going on with
00:26:38.18\00:26:40.45
the lake of fire there
and these three entities.
00:26:40.46\00:26:42.52
As a matter of fact
I've just hit on that one,
00:26:42.53\00:26:46.56
the Lord talks about
bringing forth a fire
00:26:46.57\00:26:48.89
from the midst of Lucifer.
00:26:48.90\00:26:51.55
And it would devour
him in the presence of all
00:26:51.56\00:26:54.67
those who saw him.
00:26:54.68\00:26:56.55
And they would look at
him and say they would say,
00:26:56.56\00:27:00.28
is this the one who
caused the earth to tremble.
00:27:00.29\00:27:02.72
And then they will say,
he will be no more forever.
00:27:02.73\00:27:07.34
So yes, thank you very
much for that question.
00:27:07.35\00:27:10.39
Now do we wanna
segue into our program now?
00:27:10.40\00:27:12.45
Yeah, let's do that.
00:27:12.46\00:27:13.65
Thank you so much
for your questions,
00:27:13.66\00:27:15.50
we tried to do justice.
00:27:15.51\00:27:17.11
If you find that
00:27:17.14\00:27:19.32
we have fallen short
in any particular way.
00:27:19.33\00:27:22.60
Call us, that is get
in contact with us by
00:27:22.61\00:27:26.95
sending questions
to our Internet address
00:27:26.96\00:27:29.14
housecalls@3abn.org
that's housecalls@3abn.org
00:27:29.15\00:27:35.73
And once again,
00:27:35.74\00:27:37.57
thank you for your
support of this program.
00:27:37.58\00:27:39.02
We enjoy what we do,
and I think that makes
00:27:39.03\00:27:42.71
a difference and to
have you know we have a two
00:27:42.72\00:27:45.45
cylinder car here,
00:27:45.46\00:27:46.43
but God is really the
power behind this. That's right.
00:27:46.44\00:27:48.96
John and John both
fueled by the presence
00:27:48.97\00:27:51.47
and power of the Holy Spirit.
00:27:51.48\00:27:53.16
So to God be the glory.
00:27:53.17\00:27:55.08
As we continue
now in our unfolding
00:27:55.09\00:27:58.07
of why so many denominations?
00:27:58.08\00:28:00.46
John, lead us
into this topic today.
00:28:00.47\00:28:02.40
Well, we finished in
our last program I believe,
00:28:02.41\00:28:04.55
talking about the
mother church or the church
00:28:04.56\00:28:09.00
that is the head of
Babylon, as we keep on referring
00:28:09.01\00:28:12.55
to Revelation 12
and Revelation 17.
00:28:12.56\00:28:15.32
And then we're
talking about today now as we
00:28:15.33\00:28:17.57
transition to
other denominations,
00:28:17.58\00:28:19.36
we're talking about the
daughters that are linked
00:28:19.37\00:28:21.21
or associated with the
mother the mother church,
00:28:21.22\00:28:25.21
the mother harlot
per se in Revelation 17.
00:28:25.22\00:28:29.43
And let me ask
something before that. Go ahead.
00:28:29.44\00:28:31.02
I wanna put the context here,
00:28:31.03\00:28:32.74
because I know that
people when they listen to this.
00:28:32.75\00:28:34.48
The words we say are,
00:28:34.49\00:28:36.02
the words we say
can be very concentrated
00:28:36.03\00:28:39.11
in the
interpretation of the hearer.
00:28:39.12\00:28:41.81
And so what we wanna
make sure you understand today
00:28:41.82\00:28:44.03
is we're laying out facts,
00:28:44.04\00:28:46.37
we're not attacking people,
00:28:46.38\00:28:47.82
I think you mentioned
that in one of our programs.
00:28:47.83\00:28:49.57
But it does well to
before we handle any
00:28:49.58\00:28:53.66
of these
particular denominations
00:28:53.67\00:28:56.41
or particular movements.
00:28:56.42\00:28:57.39
It's important to understand
00:28:57.40\00:28:58.37
that we're talking
about the evolution
00:28:58.38\00:29:00.71
or in some cases, the
revolution of Christianity.
00:29:00.72\00:29:05.79
How things have
been in areas of conflict
00:29:05.80\00:29:10.03
and revolution
during the dark ages.
00:29:10.04\00:29:11.57
But then after the dark ages
00:29:11.58\00:29:13.18
how they have evolved
and why they exist today,
00:29:13.19\00:29:16.10
and how they got there?
00:29:16.11\00:29:17.57
So we're gonna talk
about teachings that exist
00:29:17.58\00:29:19.56
today, the different
faiths that embrace these
00:29:19.57\00:29:22.21
teachings, the ones
that are supported by
00:29:22.22\00:29:24.91
scripture, but
the ones that survived
00:29:24.92\00:29:27.37
the filtration of the
Protestant Reformation.
00:29:27.38\00:29:32.06
And what I mean by that is,
00:29:32.07\00:29:33.23
and I think we're
gonna mention this,
00:29:33.24\00:29:34.91
so I want to jump
too far ahead of it,
00:29:34.92\00:29:36.59
but matter of fact,
let me now jump ahead
00:29:36.60\00:29:38.20
of that, because
you're gonna talk about some
00:29:38.21\00:29:39.26
of the things that survived
the Protestant Reformation.
00:29:39.27\00:29:40.97
Well, I was simply
gonna talk about that,
00:29:40.98\00:29:42.23
it's really important
to get all the programs on
00:29:42.24\00:29:44.19
this to see the other
ones that we've already done,
00:29:44.20\00:29:46.17
because it really establishes
00:29:46.18\00:29:47.84
already the first three. Right.
00:29:47.85\00:29:49.55
Establishes where we are today,
00:29:49.56\00:29:51.13
what we are saying
today can be misunderstood,
00:29:51.14\00:29:53.87
if not understood in the context
00:29:53.88\00:29:55.40
of what we've
already been talking about.
00:29:55.41\00:29:57.01
So we've lead people through
00:29:57.02\00:29:58.76
how the systems were developing.
00:29:58.77\00:30:00.72
We just talked about
the beast and the false
00:30:00.73\00:30:02.56
prophet and we've
said many times in other
00:30:02.57\00:30:05.42
programs that the Bible
we believe is very clear
00:30:05.43\00:30:08.59
as to who those
entities are. Right.
00:30:08.60\00:30:10.40
And so unless you have
those that support that
00:30:10.41\00:30:13.55
background some of
these words and some of the
00:30:13.56\00:30:15.61
things we're
talking about can be wow!
00:30:15.62\00:30:17.34
You know I didn't know that,
00:30:17.35\00:30:18.39
where they get that from?
00:30:18.40\00:30:20.24
So anyway I appreciate
that and we are talking
00:30:20.25\00:30:22.88
about systems here. Right.
00:30:22.89\00:30:24.85
Not people within the systems.
00:30:24.86\00:30:26.71
God says, Jesus
says very, very clearly,
00:30:26.72\00:30:32.06
other sheep I have
that are not of this fold,
00:30:32.07\00:30:34.32
that are of my
people that I'm shepherding,
00:30:34.33\00:30:36.30
I must bring them so that there
00:30:36.31\00:30:39.12
will be one flock
with one shepherd.
00:30:39.13\00:30:41.58
And of course we
know Revelation says,
00:30:41.59\00:30:43.62
that there is a
call out of Babylon.
00:30:43.63\00:30:46.18
That is Babylon
being the mother Church
00:30:46.19\00:30:47.92
and the harlots that
are following her teachings.
00:30:47.93\00:30:51.84
Come out of her my people,
00:30:51.85\00:30:53.89
there are people that are
serving God in these groups.
00:30:53.90\00:30:56.39
But the teachings, the
system itself is corrupt.
00:30:56.40\00:30:59.98
And so we don't make
any bones about that,
00:30:59.99\00:31:03.73
we are pretty
definitive on that statement.
00:31:03.74\00:31:06.18
That we believe that
there are corrupt systems
00:31:06.19\00:31:08.37
of Christianity out here,
that we identify in these,
00:31:08.38\00:31:12.36
in these programs.
00:31:12.37\00:31:14.07
Matter of fact,
00:31:14.08\00:31:15.05
to even build on that
something that's really,
00:31:15.06\00:31:18.62
cleverly housed in
this program is this.
00:31:18.63\00:31:22.72
There are still the
Protestant Reformation
00:31:22.73\00:31:26.08
and there are still the
reigning supreme authority
00:31:26.09\00:31:29.51
of the Roman Catholic Church
at least in their own right.
00:31:29.52\00:31:32.57
That church, and
that's why the ecumenical
00:31:32.58\00:31:36.02
movement is
still happening today.
00:31:36.03\00:31:38.33
Trying to get them back
under the reign of Rome,
00:31:38.34\00:31:40.68
but the Protestants,
those who continue to be
00:31:40.69\00:31:44.13
Protestants are
still maintaining sola
00:31:44.14\00:31:48.28
scriptura, the
Bible and the Bible only.
00:31:48.29\00:31:51.09
That's really what
we're saying here today,
00:31:51.10\00:31:53.27
is that if it
doesn't come from the Bible,
00:31:53.28\00:31:55.57
then it's not sola
scriptura and it doesn't
00:31:55.58\00:31:58.66
qualify to be a part of the
Protestant Reformation. Yeah.
00:31:58.67\00:32:01.34
It literally links
itself back to Catholicism.
00:32:01.35\00:32:04.34
So I, to give it back to John.
00:32:04.35\00:32:05.93
If it's not in the Bible
if the belief that anyone
00:32:05.94\00:32:09.21
embraces is not
supported by the scripture.
00:32:09.22\00:32:11.82
It has survived
the filtration of the
00:32:11.83\00:32:14.08
Protestant Reformation
and it still belongs to
00:32:14.09\00:32:16.22
the Mother Church. Right. Okay.
00:32:16.23\00:32:17.75
You're right, you know
the other thing too is,
00:32:17.76\00:32:20.10
I was talking to a
pastor friend of mine,
00:32:20.11\00:32:23.29
and I was actually
talking directly to him,
00:32:23.30\00:32:27.84
we were in a group of pastors.
00:32:27.85\00:32:29.27
And I was, he was talking about,
00:32:29.28\00:32:31.14
he made the comment
that really kind of,
00:32:31.15\00:32:33.15
it didn't surprised me,
00:32:33.16\00:32:34.77
but it was kind of shocking.
00:32:34.78\00:32:36.10
And I don't
think he even realize
00:32:36.11\00:32:37.23
the important of this,
00:32:37.24\00:32:38.21
but the comment
he made was, yeah,
00:32:38.22\00:32:40.32
we have a dear lady in
our church that believes
00:32:40.33\00:32:44.00
that the Roman
Catholic Church is the beast.
00:32:44.01\00:32:48.20
And I'm thinking
he's a Lutheran pastor
00:32:48.21\00:32:52.90
and he clearly is not
knowing what Martin Luther
00:32:52.91\00:32:55.87
believed about the
Roman Catholic Church. Right.
00:32:55.88\00:32:59.05
Martin Luther to his
dying day believed that
00:32:59.06\00:33:02.17
Rome was the beast.
00:33:02.18\00:33:04.65
The little horn power. Exactly.
00:33:04.66\00:33:07.32
The Protestant Reformers,
others believed that the
00:33:07.33\00:33:10.60
Roman Catholic Church
was the little horn power
00:33:10.61\00:33:13.30
and the beast power.
00:33:13.31\00:33:15.07
And so these things were say,
00:33:15.08\00:33:16.61
are saying right
now, people find shocking
00:33:16.62\00:33:19.11
today, even other
pastors of other churches find
00:33:19.12\00:33:21.34
shocking today
and that's the reason
00:33:21.35\00:33:22.79
why what we say that Protestants
00:33:22.80\00:33:25.50
are no longer protesting. No.
00:33:25.51\00:33:27.44
They are
ecumenical, they believe in the
00:33:27.45\00:33:31.24
ecumenical, the
ecumenism that's happening,
00:33:31.25\00:33:33.29
the coming together
again with the Roman church.
00:33:33.30\00:33:36.42
In fact this is
one of the reasons
00:33:36.43\00:33:37.53
why you're seeing
stories out there of Lutherans
00:33:37.54\00:33:40.94
and Catholics or Episcopalians
00:33:40.95\00:33:43.50
and Catholics, or Presbyterians
00:33:43.51\00:33:45.41
and Catholics
coming together in dialogue
00:33:45.42\00:33:47.38
to join as one faith.
00:33:47.39\00:33:49.72
Right, and but they
don't realize one is being
00:33:49.73\00:33:53.09
fished, one is
the fisher. Right.
00:33:53.10\00:33:55.96
See the churches
are being reeled in,
00:33:55.97\00:33:57.55
on being pulled back to Rome,
00:33:57.56\00:34:00.64
another point you made
so wonderfully here is that
00:34:00.65\00:34:04.22
we have to remember
that, it is important to
00:34:04.23\00:34:07.71
reiterated and to stress again
00:34:07.72\00:34:09.64
that the Bible is
the sole authority. Yeah.
00:34:09.67\00:34:14.73
The Bible is the sole authority,
00:34:14.74\00:34:16.49
once you dismiss the
authority of the Bible
00:34:16.50\00:34:18.76
and say well, our
church has been doing this for
00:34:18.77\00:34:21.40
and you start
mentioning how long,
00:34:21.41\00:34:22.98
it was established
in the Council of Trent,
00:34:22.99\00:34:25.55
the Council of Nicea or
the Council of whatever.
00:34:25.56\00:34:28.12
Once you start siting
any source outside the Bible
00:34:28.13\00:34:30.83
for your scriptural,
for your doctrinal support.
00:34:30.84\00:34:34.46
Then you lose the very platform
00:34:34.47\00:34:37.32
of the Protestant
Reformation, sola scriptura.
00:34:37.33\00:34:39.75
It's one thing to
say sola scriptura,
00:34:39.76\00:34:41.43
it's entirely
another thing it's a whole
00:34:41.44\00:34:44.48
different picture to practice
sola scriptura. That's right.
00:34:44.49\00:34:47.39
And so when we're
saying the Bible and the Bible
00:34:47.40\00:34:49.75
alone we recognize that
many others churches say
00:34:49.76\00:34:52.11
well, we believe
in the Bible too.
00:34:52.12\00:34:54.11
We just
interpret it differently.
00:34:54.12\00:34:55.38
The problem is in the way
that they're interpreting it.
00:34:55.39\00:34:58.80
That's right, they
are not using the Bible
00:34:58.81\00:35:00.00
to interpret itself.
00:35:00.04\00:35:01.66
And that's the key factor here,
00:35:01.67\00:35:03.00
when we talk about prophecy
00:35:03.01\00:35:04.59
and the Adventist Church is
big on prophecy, it says no,
00:35:04.60\00:35:06.47
no prophecy is of any
private interpretation,
00:35:06.48\00:35:09.51
that's huge,
that's because we don't,
00:35:09.52\00:35:10.87
we can't give our opinion
00:35:10.88\00:35:11.93
as to what the
prophecy is saying.
00:35:11.94\00:35:13.44
The Bible tells us,
it interprets the symbols
00:35:13.45\00:35:16.08
and prophecy and
then through those symbols
00:35:16.09\00:35:18.56
and those interpretations
we can make conclusions
00:35:18.57\00:35:20.56
that are in harmony with
the word of God. That's right.
00:35:20.57\00:35:22.82
But when you pick a
doctrine and you pick
00:35:22.83\00:35:25.08
a passage and you say,
oh here's what it teaches
00:35:25.09\00:35:27.44
you can say, it came
from the word look I'm reading
00:35:27.45\00:35:30.13
this text, but the
problem is you haven't
00:35:30.14\00:35:31.99
matched it up with fifty,
00:35:32.00\00:35:33.06
hundred other text is say
the opposite. That's right.
00:35:33.07\00:35:36.01
That's not sola scriptura,
00:35:36.02\00:35:37.50
so this is what we
believe and we think
00:35:37.51\00:35:40.47
Protestants still need to do,
00:35:40.48\00:35:42.90
protest errand teachings
00:35:42.91\00:35:44.92
from what people
say is the word of God.
00:35:44.93\00:35:47.78
You know the big,
the big call today
00:35:47.79\00:35:49.59
is we just need to
let the past be the past,
00:35:49.60\00:35:53.46
let bygones be bygones.
00:35:53.47\00:35:56.16
One of the historical
statements that I think
00:35:56.17\00:35:58.69
fits right here is,
those who fail to learn from
00:35:58.70\00:36:01.35
the past will what?
00:36:01.38\00:36:02.81
Will repeat it. Right.
00:36:02.82\00:36:04.85
You see that is why
history is so vitally
00:36:04.86\00:36:07.64
important, because
the ecumenical movement
00:36:07.65\00:36:11.70
is siding all these
non-biblical reasons
00:36:11.71\00:36:16.79
to join together.
00:36:16.83\00:36:17.98
And are deemphasizing
the importance of the
00:36:17.99\00:36:20.77
scriptures, see so
let's get together for
00:36:20.81\00:36:23.14
community help and
for against famine,
00:36:23.15\00:36:25.54
against the ozone
layer being depleted against.
00:36:25.55\00:36:28.11
You know natural disasters,
00:36:28.12\00:36:29.87
let's get together
against abuse of women,
00:36:29.88\00:36:32.21
let's get together
against molestation
00:36:32.22\00:36:34.11
of children, let's get
together against you know
00:36:34.12\00:36:36.12
homosexuality and gay
and lesbianism agenda.
00:36:36.13\00:36:38.20
They mentioned all
these things to get together
00:36:38.21\00:36:40.40
against and is almost
to say, forget the Bible,
00:36:40.41\00:36:43.87
I mean that's, let's
unify on these good works
00:36:43.88\00:36:46.39
and that's why
Jesus put in Matthew 7.
00:36:46.40\00:36:47.86
And this things are
aren't necessarily bad things.
00:36:47.87\00:36:49.74
No, not at all.
00:36:49.75\00:36:50.98
But you can't dismiss
the authority of the Bible
00:36:50.99\00:36:53.46
which is in fact the
very road map to eternal life
00:36:53.47\00:36:55.97
and say these
things take preeminent.
00:36:55.98\00:36:57.61
And the funny thing
is that, it's not funny,
00:36:57.62\00:36:59.90
but I mean the crazy
thing is that the Bible
00:36:59.91\00:37:02.53
and sola scriptura
is what divided all the
00:37:02.57\00:37:04.58
churches from each
other anyway. Right.
00:37:04.59\00:37:06.75
And now, if you're
going to get rid of the
00:37:06.76\00:37:09.42
divisions what
do you have get rid?
00:37:09.43\00:37:10.72
Get rid of the Bible.
00:37:10.73\00:37:11.70
You have to get rid of
the Bible. That's right.
00:37:11.71\00:37:13.28
So there is clearly
it's factual the Bible is
00:37:13.29\00:37:16.42
being minimalized as
far as importance for rule
00:37:16.43\00:37:19.89
and faith and
practice. That's right.
00:37:19.90\00:37:21.47
In order to come together,
00:37:21.48\00:37:22.90
that's what has to happen.
00:37:22.91\00:37:25.57
And so I don't know,
this is what we're seeing,
00:37:25.58\00:37:28.49
this is why we believe
strongly in House Calls
00:37:28.50\00:37:31.46
and what happens
here on this program.
00:37:31.47\00:37:33.13
Because we believe there
00:37:33.14\00:37:34.57
is an
accountability measures here.
00:37:34.58\00:37:35.94
In fact the text comes to me,
00:37:35.95\00:37:38.18
my people
perish for what reason?
00:37:38.19\00:37:40.31
Lack of knowledge.
For lack of knowledge,
00:37:40.32\00:37:42.24
where does that
knowledge come from?
00:37:42.25\00:37:43.59
From the word of
God. Word of God.
00:37:43.60\00:37:45.28
So when you're saying,
let's you know let's let
00:37:45.29\00:37:48.70
bygones be bygones,
let's just agree to come
00:37:48.71\00:37:50.76
together on what we agree on.
00:37:50.77\00:37:52.79
And not learn from the past,
00:37:52.80\00:37:55.08
what we're saying
here is really I don't,
00:37:55.09\00:37:57.86
we don't intend to say it.
00:37:57.90\00:37:58.87
But we're saying that you know
00:37:58.88\00:38:00.01
knowledge isn't important.
00:38:00.02\00:38:02.09
And we believe that
Bible knowledge is important,
00:38:02.10\00:38:04.84
we are living in the
age of Bible illiteracy.
00:38:04.85\00:38:08.54
Especially, yeah,
I'll just leave it at that.
00:38:08.55\00:38:12.77
Yeah Hosea 4:6, I think
your book name is Hosea 4:6,
00:38:12.78\00:38:15.78
"My people are
destroyed for lack of knowledge.
00:38:15.79\00:38:17.91
Because you have rejected
knowledge." That's right.
00:38:17.92\00:38:22.21
Nowadays there
are many Christians
00:38:22.22\00:38:24.10
who are fearful to get into
00:38:24.11\00:38:25.31
dialogue with other Christians.
00:38:25.32\00:38:27.21
I don't want to
talk about doctrine,
00:38:27.22\00:38:28.39
you know that's divisive.
00:38:28.40\00:38:29.41
Yeah, now we're gonna
talk about one of those
00:38:29.42\00:38:30.95
nondenominational movements too.
00:38:30.96\00:38:32.60
Because they emphasize,
we don't teach doctrines,
00:38:32.61\00:38:35.26
we just teach the Bible. Duh!
00:38:35.27\00:38:38.21
One is not
separated from the other,
00:38:38.22\00:38:40.40
didn't mean to say duh,
00:38:40.41\00:38:41.38
but it's kind a
like light came on.
00:38:41.39\00:38:43.37
The doctrines that
you believe are anything
00:38:43.38\00:38:45.18
you teach from the Bible
is the formation of teachings,
00:38:45.19\00:38:48.20
which is in fact
another word for doctrines.
00:38:48.21\00:38:50.28
So go ahead, John,
talk about power for today.
00:38:50.29\00:38:52.81
Now we're transitioning
and again we don't have
00:38:52.82\00:38:55.71
a lot of time
left in the program.
00:38:55.72\00:38:56.74
We're transitioning to
different denominations
00:38:56.75\00:38:59.29
and we're seeing these
denominations as you said,
00:38:59.30\00:39:05.02
the filtering process
of the Reformation. Right.
00:39:05.03\00:39:07.26
These came out of the
Protestant Reformation,
00:39:08.27\00:39:10.39
but here is one
of the key factors
00:39:10.40\00:39:11.71
and here is what we
wanna say up front here.
00:39:11.72\00:39:13.92
As these Protestant
denominations came about,
00:39:13.93\00:39:18.99
that usually
emphasizes specific aspect
00:39:19.00\00:39:21.38
of protesting
against Rome. Right.
00:39:21.39\00:39:24.41
But they didn't
continue to protest
00:39:24.42\00:39:26.75
in all aspects of Rome. Right.
00:39:26.76\00:39:28.69
And so to this very day
what God intends us to do
00:39:28.70\00:39:32.33
is to continue to
protest on the authority
00:39:32.34\00:39:34.38
of scripture against Rome.
00:39:34.39\00:39:35.80
Many now are
reversing the process
00:39:35.81\00:39:37.90
and that is coming to us
00:39:37.91\00:39:39.57
it's a result of what's called
00:39:39.58\00:39:41.29
the counter reformation.
00:39:41.30\00:39:43.20
There is a counter
reformation at work
00:39:43.21\00:39:44.88
to undo what the
Protestant Reformers did.
00:39:44.89\00:39:47.80
And the teaching
we're finding in the church
00:39:47.81\00:39:50.16
don't continue to
protest against errand teachings
00:39:50.17\00:39:53.69
that are brought forth by Rome,
00:39:53.70\00:39:55.87
are clearly being established
00:39:55.88\00:39:57.59
and are held to
within these churches. Right.
00:39:57.60\00:40:00.41
And today in the program today,
00:40:00.42\00:40:02.82
we're gonna start with the
Baptist Church. Okay. Okay.
00:40:02.83\00:40:06.33
And so in each one of
these and we're not gonna
00:40:06.34\00:40:08.10
cover all them by no means,
00:40:08.11\00:40:09.46
but we're gonna
cover the major ones,
00:40:09.47\00:40:10.79
we're gonna see certain
aspects of these churches
00:40:10.80\00:40:13.02
that are good and
certain aspects of these
00:40:13.03\00:40:15.66
churches, the
teachings within these churches
00:40:15.67\00:40:17.15
that haven't completely
reformed in the protest,
00:40:17.16\00:40:21.60
protesting Protestant movement
00:40:21.61\00:40:23.93
to protest against Rome.
00:40:23.94\00:40:25.37
And what are some
of the common teachings
00:40:25.38\00:40:27.01
that are embraced?
00:40:27.02\00:40:28.47
Well, many of
the distinct beliefs
00:40:28.48\00:40:31.81
of the Baptist Church that
are in harmony with scripture
00:40:31.82\00:40:34.37
we find are personal
accountability to God.
00:40:34.38\00:40:37.80
You know, we are not
saved through the beliefs
00:40:37.81\00:40:40.71
of parents, or
the beliefs of family
00:40:40.72\00:40:42.65
associations, or
the beliefs of maybe
00:40:42.66\00:40:45.25
a connection to a pastor
in the church or something.
00:40:45.26\00:40:47.23
We all have a
personal accountability to God.
00:40:47.24\00:40:50.44
And one of those
accountabilities is that
00:40:50.45\00:40:52.93
we have a freedom of
conscience as well to act
00:40:52.94\00:40:56.73
on the accountability
that we have. Right.
00:40:56.74\00:40:59.41
So that's very important,
because what they were
00:40:59.42\00:41:02.10
protesting there in
Rome about was the Rome was
00:41:02.11\00:41:04.47
certain that you must
believe as we the church
00:41:04.48\00:41:06.73
tells you to believe.
00:41:06.74\00:41:08.50
Baptist said no,
00:41:08.51\00:41:10.18
we are personally
accountable to God.
00:41:10.19\00:41:12.03
We believe by our own
conscious and the reading
00:41:12.04\00:41:14.32
of scripture what we believe
given to us by God. Right.
00:41:14.33\00:41:18.16
And we appreciate that
about the Baptist Church.
00:41:18.17\00:41:21.01
And closely tied to
that is the Scripture alone
00:41:21.02\00:41:24.23
is the rule of
faith and practice.
00:41:24.24\00:41:26.28
So sola scriptura one
of the champion teachings
00:41:26.29\00:41:31.04
of the Baptist
Church as it first came out,
00:41:31.05\00:41:33.13
it first began to
protest against Rome.
00:41:33.14\00:41:36.90
And I'll mention here too,
00:41:36.91\00:41:38.32
there are so many
different Baptist congregations.
00:41:38.33\00:41:42.21
One of the reasons
for that is they have a
00:41:42.22\00:41:44.25
congregational
structure which is a very
00:41:44.26\00:41:45.75
independent localized
church by church structure.
00:41:45.76\00:41:49.03
So there are
individual churches that believe
00:41:49.04\00:41:52.87
a little differently
than another Baptist church.
00:41:52.88\00:41:54.83
So you'll find that
through the churches,
00:41:54.84\00:41:56.33
a difference of doctrine.
00:41:56.34\00:42:00.08
There is also an
another entire line of Baptist
00:42:00.09\00:42:04.06
churches that come
out of the anti-Baptist.
00:42:04.07\00:42:05.93
So just the Seventh-day
Baptist that aren't out
00:42:05.94\00:42:08.12
of the line of the,
or are in line with the
00:42:08.13\00:42:10.42
Southern Baptist
convention or even
00:42:10.43\00:42:12.50
the Free Will Baptist,
which are really kind of down,
00:42:12.51\00:42:16.30
they recognize their
line coming from John Smith,
00:42:16.31\00:42:18.60
out of the
1600s the early 1600s.
00:42:18.61\00:42:21.48
So there are other
pieces of the Baptist Church
00:42:21.49\00:42:23.89
but in general.
00:42:23.90\00:42:24.87
The first Baptist
and second Baptist--
00:42:24.88\00:42:25.85
Yes, just goes on.
00:42:25.86\00:42:27.19
But in general these are
the teachings of many of them.
00:42:27.20\00:42:31.42
And another one
is scripture alone
00:42:31.43\00:42:34.32
as a rule of faith and practice.
00:42:34.33\00:42:36.15
Sola scriptura, I
think we mentioned today.
00:42:36.16\00:42:39.43
Just salvation by
grace through faith.
00:42:39.44\00:42:41.58
One of the embraced
teachings that is so true
00:42:41.59\00:42:44.98
and this is something
that we share in common
00:42:44.99\00:42:47.03
with the Baptist
Church is salvation
00:42:47.04\00:42:49.68
by grace through
faith alone. Sola fide.
00:42:49.69\00:42:52.79
Sola fide You're
right, sola fide.
00:42:52.80\00:42:55.27
Justification by
grace through faith alone,
00:42:55.28\00:42:57.56
we cannot be justified
by any action on our part.
00:42:57.57\00:43:00.80
However after being
justified our actions are
00:43:00.81\00:43:05.08
a testament to our
connection to Christ.
00:43:05.09\00:43:08.87
So, we're not
saved by the works,
00:43:08.88\00:43:10.29
but the works testify
whether or not in other words,
00:43:10.30\00:43:12.61
I'm not hired
because I did a great job
00:43:12.62\00:43:15.37
but after I get hired I
need to do a great job. Right.
00:43:15.38\00:43:19.53
You see, so
that's the whole key,
00:43:19.54\00:43:21.18
the qualifications of
the Christian is solely based
00:43:21.19\00:43:23.25
on the merits of
Christ and that's wonderful.
00:43:23.26\00:43:26.34
Scripture alone as a
rule of faith and practice,
00:43:26.35\00:43:28.97
sola scriptura, first
and foremost doctrine.
00:43:28.98\00:43:33.93
Nice that is an
extremely important
00:43:33.94\00:43:36.65
and that is emphasized orally.
00:43:36.66\00:43:39.46
You know, that's we
believe in the Bible
00:43:39.47\00:43:41.11
and the Bible only, but
I made a point a moment ago
00:43:41.12\00:43:43.77
and we're gonna see
when we get to the point
00:43:43.78\00:43:45.31
where some of these
teachings of divergent,
00:43:45.32\00:43:47.59
how some of these things
that are embraced by some
00:43:47.60\00:43:51.08
of the Baptist not
necessarily all of them
00:43:51.09\00:43:53.23
have survived the filtration
00:43:53.24\00:43:55.94
of the Protestant
Reformation. Yeah.
00:43:55.95\00:43:57.50
Another one held in
common is the God head.
00:43:57.51\00:43:59.70
The Father, the
Son, and the Holy Spirit.
00:43:59.71\00:44:02.51
Don't have to say
very much about that,
00:44:02.52\00:44:03.95
but they believe in
you know the supremacy
00:44:03.96\00:44:06.09
of the God head, they
are the Son, the Father,
00:44:06.10\00:44:09.58
and the Holy Spirit.
00:44:09.59\00:44:11.37
No challenge there at all.
00:44:11.38\00:44:14.08
And many Baptists believe
00:44:14.09\00:44:17.00
in the separation
of church and state.
00:44:17.01\00:44:18.75
It's a strong, they
are strong promoters
00:44:18.76\00:44:21.43
of religious freedom.
00:44:21.44\00:44:22.41
But you have
others that say that,
00:44:22.42\00:44:26.77
this is once
again, where the channels
00:44:26.78\00:44:28.63
sometimes gets colored gray.
00:44:28.64\00:44:30.34
Where some say, well,
you know we should have
00:44:30.35\00:44:33.11
control of politics
because politics was born
00:44:33.12\00:44:36.75
in the heart of
our founding fathers
00:44:36.76\00:44:38.58
who are all Christians.
00:44:38.59\00:44:40.05
See, so you
have that side of it.
00:44:40.06\00:44:42.05
However when you go down
your list of beliefs when
00:44:42.06\00:44:45.40
you go through the Chronicles.
00:44:45.41\00:44:46.53
And there are some
other things you wanna
00:44:46.54\00:44:47.85
emphasize before,
before I go the next phase.
00:44:47.86\00:44:50.02
But when you go
to the Chronicles,
00:44:50.03\00:44:51.00
you begin to see,
00:44:51.01\00:44:52.52
if it's in the
Bible I could supported,
00:44:52.53\00:44:54.60
if it's not in the Bible,
00:44:54.61\00:44:55.78
I should begin to
search and find where the Bible
00:44:55.79\00:44:58.15
clarifies something that may be
00:44:58.16\00:45:00.18
skewed in my understanding.
00:45:00.19\00:45:01.48
Right, right, very good.
00:45:01.49\00:45:03.96
You know, a couple of
other things just briefly
00:45:03.97\00:45:05.77
they also rejected
Calvin's view of predestination.
00:45:05.78\00:45:08.75
Praise the Lord.
00:45:08.76\00:45:09.73
So that was, that's very good,
00:45:09.74\00:45:11.20
that's in line with
scripture we agree with that.
00:45:11.21\00:45:14.68
They also
recognize that the offices
00:45:14.69\00:45:16.39
of the church, but
most significantly pastors
00:45:16.40\00:45:19.73
and deacons, the work of pastors
00:45:19.74\00:45:21.59
and deacons in churches.
00:45:21.60\00:45:23.13
But again there is
a divergence in some
00:45:23.14\00:45:26.08
respects depending upon
the Baptist congregation
00:45:26.09\00:45:28.43
you see today.
00:45:28.44\00:45:29.61
And that's mainly
because of their independence,
00:45:29.62\00:45:34.08
very much their autonomy
00:45:34.09\00:45:36.03
within each
church on a local basis.
00:45:36.04\00:45:39.88
But then now, what
we've seen as John several
00:45:39.89\00:45:43.27
hundred years of
the Baptist church being
00:45:43.28\00:45:47.31
Congregationalist in structure.
00:45:47.32\00:45:48.78
We are finding that
there are movements that have
00:45:48.79\00:45:52.46
come about in
Christianity at large
00:45:52.47\00:45:54.07
that have come into the Church.
00:45:54.08\00:45:56.02
That have actually caused
00:45:56.03\00:45:57.39
them to move away
from Sola scriptura.
00:45:57.40\00:45:59.42
And we find it
are highly problematic
00:45:59.43\00:46:01.88
and the reason we bring
up Baptist is because it's
00:46:01.89\00:46:03.71
one of the largest
Protestant denominations today.
00:46:03.72\00:46:08.05
But these few
teachings that they have,
00:46:08.06\00:46:10.99
that we find on a
widely type basis are very
00:46:11.00\00:46:15.55
problematic
because they directly
00:46:15.56\00:46:17.36
connect to end time events.
00:46:17.37\00:46:20.99
And when I say end time events,
00:46:21.00\00:46:23.00
I believe they're
deliberate in intending
00:46:23.01\00:46:26.08
at least the devil I
believe is deliberate
00:46:26.09\00:46:28.95
in intending these to
mislead people and to not
00:46:28.96\00:46:32.26
seeing some very
important truths,
00:46:32.27\00:46:34.74
such as the resurrection,
00:46:34.75\00:46:36.65
such as the
Second Coming of Jesus,
00:46:36.66\00:46:39.65
such as even salvation
and accountability to God.
00:46:39.66\00:46:44.54
Of course the issue of
Sunday that connects all
00:46:44.55\00:46:47.64
of these churches that we're
talking about to Rome still.
00:46:47.65\00:46:51.61
They haven't
reformed or at lest protested
00:46:51.62\00:46:54.08
on that issue most of them.
00:46:54.09\00:46:56.20
If not well, most all them,
00:46:56.21\00:46:59.15
and so here are a few things,
00:46:59.16\00:47:02.13
so let's go though
a few of these, John,
00:47:02.14\00:47:03.31
we don't have a
lot of time left.
00:47:03.32\00:47:04.71
But number one, one
of the things that keeps
00:47:04.72\00:47:07.35
coming up over and over
again is the secret rapture.
00:47:07.36\00:47:09.95
Oh yeah. That's true.
00:47:09.96\00:47:13.44
Figure rapture, that
theory was not prevalent
00:47:13.45\00:47:16.95
when Baptist first began
00:47:16.96\00:47:19.40
to form in the
early 17th century.
00:47:19.41\00:47:22.65
You what amazing
about that, John,
00:47:22.66\00:47:24.33
is Tim LaHaye who was
one of the foremost recent
00:47:24.34\00:47:28.47
writers of the
books left behind,
00:47:28.48\00:47:30.58
which was a fictional
account of the secret rapture.
00:47:30.59\00:47:34.88
Which doesn't have any
basis in the Bible at all.
00:47:34.89\00:47:37.48
He is a strong
critic of Catholicism,
00:47:37.49\00:47:40.46
out of which the very
belief he embraces came--
00:47:40.47\00:47:44.84
From Catholicism.
00:47:44.85\00:47:46.04
Right, through Francisco
Ribera, a Roman Jesuit,
00:47:46.05\00:47:50.18
so this is kind of a sword
00:47:50.19\00:47:51.97
that swings around and cuts him.
00:47:51.98\00:47:53.49
You know he criticizes,
I think there was a book in
00:47:53.50\00:47:57.05
1973 called
illustrated and made plain,
00:47:57.06\00:48:01.17
he stated that the Catholics is,
00:48:01.18\00:48:02.65
"more dangerous
than no religion,
00:48:02.66\00:48:05.86
because she
substitutes religion for truth."
00:48:05.87\00:48:08.02
That's a direct quote. Right.
00:48:08.03\00:48:09.94
From his book and, but
at the same time the very
00:48:09.95\00:48:13.23
thing that he has told
with fervency came out of the,
00:48:13.24\00:48:17.32
out of the Roman
Catholics attempt to hide
00:48:17.33\00:48:20.43
the truth about
the who the forth beast
00:48:20.44\00:48:23.75
of Revelation, forth
beast of Daniel was--
00:48:23.76\00:48:26.05
To undo the Protestant
Reformation and the kind
00:48:26.06\00:48:28.55
of Reformation he is
going along with that.
00:48:28.56\00:48:31.16
So he says they
have, they have substituted
00:48:31.17\00:48:34.36
religion for truth and
he has accepted something
00:48:34.37\00:48:37.94
that's a part
of that substitute.
00:48:37.95\00:48:39.38
Yeah. Isn't that ironic? It is.
00:48:39.39\00:48:41.56
And so he teaches
in the 16 book series,
00:48:41.57\00:48:43.42
a 13 book series
00:48:43.43\00:48:44.99
which sold upwards
of a 100 million copies,
00:48:45.00\00:48:48.48
of the secret rapture that was
00:48:48.49\00:48:50.12
formulated by Rome
specifically to push the,
00:48:50.13\00:48:53.87
to push this secret
rapture that doesn't
00:48:53.88\00:48:56.18
exist, way down to a single
man in the distant future.
00:48:56.19\00:48:59.52
Yeah, and it completely
undoes the resurrection
00:48:59.53\00:49:03.24
in connection with the
Second Coming of Jesus,
00:49:03.25\00:49:05.01
that is literal,
audible, visible.
00:49:05.02\00:49:09.07
You know one of the
things, John, I don't, I,
00:49:09.08\00:49:10.98
we can't forget to
mention is the reason
00:49:10.99\00:49:14.56
why the Baptist church
formed at least initially,
00:49:14.57\00:49:16.98
was it's protest against Rome
00:49:16.99\00:49:19.40
for the way it was baptizing.
00:49:19.41\00:49:21.04
It was Baptizing by sprinkling
00:49:21.05\00:49:22.83
and the Baptist saw
that immersion was the only
00:49:22.84\00:49:25.68
teaching in
Scripture for baptism.
00:49:25.69\00:49:27.40
And so that's where the word
Baptist comes from. Baptisio.
00:49:27.41\00:49:31.40
Yes, and so very much
they saw problems with Rome,
00:49:31.41\00:49:37.78
but now and this
is, I bring this up,
00:49:37.79\00:49:39.74
this is the perfect example.
00:49:39.75\00:49:41.00
Now we're seeing
those in the church adopting
00:49:41.01\00:49:44.22
a teaching that is from Rome
00:49:44.23\00:49:45.80
that they didn't
have before. True.
00:49:45.81\00:49:47.94
So, we have a ecumenical
thing happening here with
00:49:47.95\00:49:51.35
the teachings as well
as maybe dialogue or hope,
00:49:51.36\00:49:56.16
at least from the
Mother Church Rome,
00:49:56.17\00:49:58.02
to bring all
Protestants back into her fold.
00:49:58.03\00:50:01.30
But there is a
teachings issue here going on
00:50:01.31\00:50:03.22
and it's not just a
secret rapture and we're gonna
00:50:03.23\00:50:06.56
try to get into each
one of these individually.
00:50:06.57\00:50:08.16
But here's another one
immortality of the soul,
00:50:08.20\00:50:10.89
right, regularly
taught, prevalently taught--
00:50:10.90\00:50:14.49
And for those who may
have heard that phrase one
00:50:14.50\00:50:16.66
time that means the
soul survives death.
00:50:16.67\00:50:20.00
Doesn't it I, it
goes on and goes straight
00:50:20.01\00:50:21.93
to heaven and exists.
00:50:21.94\00:50:22.95
And not supported
by the Bible today.
00:50:22.96\00:50:23.95
Yes, number three, I
have written down here eternal
00:50:23.96\00:50:28.56
torment for the wicked,
fire and brimstone preachers.
00:50:28.57\00:50:31.93
You know he used to
bring you know, you know,
00:50:31.94\00:50:33.17
burn in hell if you
don't accept Christ almost as a
00:50:33.18\00:50:35.97
motive, you know thinking
someone will be motivated
00:50:35.98\00:50:38.69
by fear to accept
God in the right way.
00:50:38.70\00:50:40.73
But, I mean, they're
known for having some
00:50:40.74\00:50:43.07
good fire and
brimstone preachers,
00:50:43.08\00:50:45.17
but it comes out of
those that teaching that there
00:50:45.18\00:50:48.43
will be eternal
torment as a result for the
00:50:48.44\00:50:50.81
wicked not accepting Christ.
00:50:50.82\00:50:51.89
That's right, let me
make a statement on that very
00:50:51.90\00:50:53.25
thing, because you
know some people say that
00:50:53.26\00:50:55.07
Adventist don't believe in hell.
00:50:55.08\00:50:56.50
Yes, we do we believe
in hell that's hotter than
00:50:56.51\00:50:59.29
what most Christians
believe in. That's right.
00:50:59.30\00:51:01.09
Because if you
believe in continually being
00:51:01.10\00:51:04.26
tormented throughout eternity,
00:51:04.27\00:51:05.30
the fires of hell are
not able to destroy this,
00:51:05.31\00:51:07.43
the person who
was being tormented.
00:51:07.44\00:51:09.00
We believe in the
fact that the Bible says,
00:51:09.01\00:51:11.56
"the day shall come
00:51:11.57\00:51:13.42
that shall burn
asan oven, " Malachi 4.
00:51:13.43\00:51:15.85
"The day that is
coming shall burn as an oven,
00:51:15.86\00:51:18.60
ye all the proud and
all who do wickedly shall be
00:51:18.61\00:51:22.56
stubble for they shall be ashes
00:51:22.57\00:51:25.09
under the soles
of your feet." Right.
00:51:25.10\00:51:27.03
Psalms 37, I
believe it's verse 10,
00:51:27.04\00:51:29.11
the wicked shall be
consumed into smoke shall
00:51:29.12\00:51:32.86
they consume away.
00:51:32.87\00:51:33.89
So, we are not
"annihilation" is that
00:51:33.90\00:51:36.97
the term that's often
use you an annihilationist.
00:51:36.98\00:51:38.96
No, we believe the
Bible says that the person who
00:51:38.97\00:51:41.74
is, who does not
have eternal life
00:51:41.75\00:51:44.18
cannot burn eternally.
00:51:44.19\00:51:45.53
So, how can you be
tormented eternally
00:51:45.54\00:51:48.17
without receiving eternal life?
00:51:48.18\00:51:50.26
Yeah, it makes it
kind of a torture,
00:51:50.27\00:51:51.52
keeping you alive,
giving you eternal life in hell,
00:51:51.53\00:51:53.67
keeping you alive
to punish you forever.
00:51:53.68\00:51:56.87
Where God is just, his
character is completely
00:51:56.88\00:51:59.03
opposite of that in scripture,
00:51:59.04\00:52:00.22
throughout consistently.
00:52:00.23\00:52:01.20
And what is often
not thought about is,
00:52:01.21\00:52:03.21
is Satan gonna be around
forever and the answer is
00:52:03.22\00:52:05.97
no, he is going
to be destroyed. Yes.
00:52:05.98\00:52:08.61
So why would the
culprit be destroyed
00:52:08.62\00:52:11.37
but the victims be
tormented endlessly.
00:52:11.38\00:52:13.92
The other thing too is
we know that this is coming
00:52:13.93\00:52:15.81
about by the immortality
of the soul. Exactly.
00:52:15.82\00:52:18.46
If you're saying
well, the body will be ashes
00:52:18.47\00:52:19.89
of your feet but the
soul will live on forever,
00:52:19.90\00:52:22.02
but then you're
missing other text such as
00:52:22.03\00:52:23.41
twenty-five layman
00:52:23.42\00:52:24.51
"they will be as
though they had never been."
00:52:24.52\00:52:26.92
That means they will
no longer exist. Right.
00:52:26.93\00:52:30.26
Anyway the consistency
of the Scriptures in that it
00:52:30.27\00:52:33.26
does not teach eternal
torment for the wicked.
00:52:33.27\00:52:35.89
Here's another one,
"once saved always saved."
00:52:35.90\00:52:38.27
That's conveyable Christianity,
00:52:38.28\00:52:40.04
that's not daily
sanctification. Yeah.
00:52:40.05\00:52:42.77
That's the problem
with that, it's like okay,
00:52:42.78\00:52:46.61
you're on the fast
track, you can't get off.
00:52:46.62\00:52:48.18
What if at one
point in your choice,
00:52:48.19\00:52:51.14
in your daily
process of making choices.
00:52:51.15\00:52:52.81
Now, we're not
saying save loss, save loss,
00:52:52.82\00:52:54.71
save loss, save loss,
but there are some people
00:52:54.72\00:52:56.68
that in the course
of time Jesus used the
00:52:56.69\00:52:59.15
example in scripture, he says,
00:52:59.16\00:53:00.33
speaking of his
disciples he says,
00:53:00.34\00:53:04.14
some have walked
away from us never
00:53:04.15\00:53:08.82
to walk with us again.
00:53:08.83\00:53:10.58
And Peter said,
looking at that question,
00:53:10.59\00:53:14.08
Jesus looked at Peter and says,
00:53:14.09\00:53:16.20
are you also gonna forsake me?
00:53:16.21\00:53:17.78
And then he said to
whom shall we go? You see.
00:53:17.79\00:53:21.85
It's also, Paul said,
it's possible to renew
00:53:21.86\00:53:25.21
one who has tasted of
the good fruit and have
00:53:25.22\00:53:27.82
walked away from
it. That's right.
00:53:27.83\00:53:29.42
To renew them
again to repentance,
00:53:29.43\00:53:30.65
which means they're in an
unrepentant, unsafe state.
00:53:30.66\00:53:33.38
That's where iniquity comes in,
00:53:33.39\00:53:34.88
that's where the
unpardonable sin comes in.
00:53:34.89\00:53:37.42
Rejecting Christ,
that's the statement of Jesus,
00:53:37.43\00:53:40.42
He that shall endure
unto the end will be saved.
00:53:40.43\00:53:43.97
The big, the big hole in
Christianity is they have
00:53:43.98\00:53:47.86
justification
accepting Jesus but often
00:53:47.87\00:53:49.86
sanctification is
left out. Totally.
00:53:49.87\00:53:52.27
And then right to glorification,
00:53:52.28\00:53:53.80
so justification
or glorification,
00:53:53.81\00:53:55.34
forget the daily
walk with Christ,
00:53:55.35\00:53:56.95
you can't just
do what you wanna do
00:53:56.96\00:53:58.49
and be saved anyway.
00:53:58.50\00:53:59.47
That's why there is so
much immorality brimming over,
00:53:59.48\00:54:02.12
that's why there is
so much departing from
00:54:02.13\00:54:03.99
living right and
people still believing they're
00:54:04.00\00:54:06.20
living wrong still
bring salvation. Yeah, yeah.
00:54:06.21\00:54:10.50
And it's, it's tough
because we're constantly
00:54:10.51\00:54:13.12
seeking and
having these questions,
00:54:13.13\00:54:15.00
seeking to undo these,
these teachings that are,
00:54:15.01\00:54:19.12
are so opposed
to many of the plain
00:54:19.13\00:54:21.03
scriptures of God's word.
00:54:21.04\00:54:22.17
So, that's why
we're bringing these up.
00:54:22.18\00:54:24.24
Sunday sacredness, of
course we mentioned that.
00:54:24.25\00:54:27.47
Here's one, Law of
God no longer obligatory,
00:54:27.48\00:54:30.05
of course that's tied
to the Sabbath issue and
00:54:30.06\00:54:32.25
it's the reason why they
eliminate or take out any
00:54:32.26\00:54:35.76
obligation to keep
the law of God. Right.
00:54:35.77\00:54:38.63
The law of God is
something that he never,
00:54:38.64\00:54:40.87
I mean it's a
command, it's not a suggestion
00:54:40.88\00:54:44.27
as we say, these
are 10 suggestions. No.
00:54:44.28\00:54:46.59
And they wouldn't say
this about any of the nine.
00:54:46.60\00:54:48.91
You know, can I
murder, can I lie, can I kill,
00:54:48.92\00:54:51.76
can I steal, can I
worship false Gods,
00:54:51.77\00:54:53.53
can I take God's name in vain?
00:54:53.54\00:54:55.25
They said no, no,
no, of course not.
00:54:55.26\00:54:57.79
But can I change
the Sabbath to Sunday
00:54:57.80\00:55:00.23
and honor that day,
instead of the day God set up?
00:55:00.24\00:55:03.46
Oh yes, that's
okay, because that's not,
00:55:03.47\00:55:05.20
it's not obligatory, the
law of God is not obligatory.
00:55:05.21\00:55:07.63
It's just, it's like
speaking out of two sides
00:55:07.64\00:55:10.06
of your mouth, it doesn't work.
00:55:10.07\00:55:13.56
Reverend Hitchcock
and I'm using the phrase
00:55:13.57\00:55:15.80
Reverend, because
that's the phrase,
00:55:15.81\00:55:16.93
that's the way he's referred to,
00:55:16.94\00:55:18.30
the one who wrote
the Baptist manual.
00:55:18.31\00:55:20.79
In his own word
says, there has never been
00:55:20.80\00:55:23.17
and you cannot find anywhere
in the scripture a single
00:55:23.18\00:55:26.68
solitary line sanctioning
the observance of Sunday.
00:55:26.69\00:55:30.70
It has no scriptural authority.
00:55:30.71\00:55:33.04
So if you read, if you
read the Baptist manual
00:55:33.05\00:55:35.65
and look at the
statement that is made about
00:55:35.66\00:55:38.77
Sabbath versus Sunday,
you will see the writer
00:55:38.78\00:55:41.06
of that manual says that no,
00:55:41.07\00:55:43.18
there is no scriptural authority
00:55:43.19\00:55:45.87
for the observance of first
day of the week not at all.
00:55:45.88\00:55:48.56
Yeah, and then if we go
00:55:48.57\00:55:49.88
of course to the Mother Church,
00:55:49.89\00:55:50.96
the church of Rome it says,
00:55:50.97\00:55:51.99
well of course not,
we established the day.
00:55:52.00\00:55:53.86
And by virtue of our
authority at the church
00:55:53.87\00:55:57.70
on earth we have the God
given authority to change
00:55:57.71\00:56:02.02
the day from Saturday to Sunday.
00:56:02.03\00:56:04.14
And you know that God
given authority is even
00:56:04.15\00:56:05.96
questionable,
because, even questionable,
00:56:05.97\00:56:08.02
because Jesus said in
Daniel seven they will
00:56:08.03\00:56:10.24
think to change times and laws.
00:56:10.25\00:56:12.31
That means you
thought you changed it.
00:56:12.32\00:56:14.08
They intend to do it, but.
00:56:14.09\00:56:15.06
They intended, but you
can't do it because the
00:56:15.07\00:56:16.94
times have been
established by God,
00:56:16.95\00:56:19.40
I can no more get
rid of the 24 hour day,
00:56:19.41\00:56:21.80
then I can get rid
of the seven day week,
00:56:21.81\00:56:24.42
then I can get rid of
any of the laws of God.
00:56:24.43\00:56:26.78
You really can't do that.
00:56:26.79\00:56:28.28
So it's very important,
it's a very good topic,
00:56:28.29\00:56:29.91
John, I appreciate you putting
00:56:29.92\00:56:31.34
the work together for this one.
00:56:31.35\00:56:32.35
Yeah, and we're gonna
take about some others
00:56:32.36\00:56:34.86
and that have very
much in common with Baptist,
00:56:34.87\00:56:38.68
other Protestant
denominations that clearly,
00:56:38.69\00:56:42.51
we're actually
sharing this because we
00:56:42.52\00:56:44.54
want to, to at
least challenge them,
00:56:44.55\00:56:47.00
to go back to the scriptures,
00:56:47.01\00:56:47.99
to become sola scriptura.
00:56:48.00\00:56:51.26
To use the Bible
00:56:51.27\00:56:52.95
and the Bible only
for our rule of faith
00:56:52.96\00:56:55.34
and practice as
Christians today.
00:56:55.35\00:56:57.27
And that's something that's
lacking in our world today.
00:56:57.28\00:56:59.42
A lot of people want
to get involved in the
00:56:59.43\00:57:01.32
atmosphere of religion
rather than getting back
00:57:01.33\00:57:03.96
into the foundation of religion.
00:57:03.97\00:57:05.64
If you think about
what started this movement
00:57:05.65\00:57:07.77
it is the very thing
that's going to end it.
00:57:07.78\00:57:09.71
Jesus said, in Matthew 4:4,
00:57:09.72\00:57:11.54
"Man shall not live
by bread alone, but--"
00:57:11.55\00:57:14.89
"By every word that proceeds
out of the mouth of God."
00:57:14.90\00:57:17.51
Whatever happened to
the good old good book,
00:57:17.52\00:57:20.02
it's in digital form,
00:57:20.03\00:57:21.30
it can be found on the Internet,
00:57:21.31\00:57:22.62
it's in so many places.
00:57:22.63\00:57:23.80
But the place
that it can be best
00:57:23.81\00:57:25.74
used is when it's in our heart.
00:57:25.75\00:57:27.99
May God bless you,
put the word of God
00:57:28.00\00:57:29.76
in your heart,
until we see you again,
00:57:29.77\00:57:31.30
have a great day
walking with Christ.
00:57:31.31\00:57:33.45