In the Quran in Surah 8:65,
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it says, "Oh, Prophet,
urged the believers to war.
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If there are 20
patient ones of you,
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they shall overcome 200,
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if there is 100 of you,
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they shall overcome
1000 of those who disbelieve
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because they are a
people who do not understand."
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Does the Quran
really teach violence?
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We'll be discussing this,
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so come join us on this edition
of Good News for Muslims.
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Welcome to part 10 of a
13-part television series
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dealing with
Christian and Islamic issues.
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And today we're gonna
discuss the issue of violence,
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violence in the Quran,
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Jihad groups like ISIS
and Boko Haram and Al-Qaeda.
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And whether this is a reflection
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of really what the Quran is
saying, or whether it isn't.
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Shahbaz, welcome
again. Thank you.
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You've been with me for,
this is program number 10.
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And this has
been quite a journey.
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And now we're gonna get
into the issue of violence.
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And I'd like to start out
by just mentioning that I,
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I'm sure you
remember where you were,
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I remember where
I was on the morning
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of September 11, 2001.
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My wife and I
were living in Texas
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and I still remember a
friend of mine calling,
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phone rang, I picked it up,
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it was a friend
named Costin Jordache,
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that I was working
with him and he said,
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"Steve, you've got to turn on
the television set right now."
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So I got up went over to
the, to the TV, turned it on
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and there were the
Twin Towers in New York,
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and one of them was burning.
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And then another
plane hit the second tower.
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The second tower was burning,
the first tower came down,
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the second tower came down.
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And I'm sure you remember
that and those images all day,
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again, and again
and again and again.
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You know, we watched and
slowly the drama unfolded.
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And we discovered
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that these were
Muslim terrorists
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that had done
this terrible deed.
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And that created,
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you know, a lot
of scrutiny on Islam.
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So just, you know,
fill us in a little bit,
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what do you
remember about that day?
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And what were the
issues that came up?
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I was living in
California at that time,
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actually, on a
one year assignment
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with Adventist Frontier Mission.
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And I was at my sister's
when we watched television,
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we saw that, I
remember very well,
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how I felt as a
Middle Eastern Christian,
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have someone from at
least who's a Christian,
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that oh, boy, Muslim,
Middle Eastern Muslim,
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some Middle East have done this,
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and now you're
automatically you're a target.
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I mean, I was one.
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I mean, that was
not my initial thoughts.
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My initial
thoughts were the horror
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of what I was seeing,
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and praying for the
people in those towers,
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that God would save them.
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And then after
it all settled down,
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I mean, a few hours later,
I was thinking about that.
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And then I went to
Walmart, I remember,
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the Walmart employees
were all looking at me,
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here's this guy looks
like he's from Middle East.
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And they were just watching
me as I was passing them by
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and so it was an eerie feeling.
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Very eerie. Yeah.
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And I mean, I think
everybody would agree,
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we know that those men
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who did those
acts that they were,
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or at least they
considered themselves
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to be part of the
religion of Islam.
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Absolutely.
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And they did what they
did, you know, for Allah.
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I remember in 2007,
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I was actually
invited to the Pentagon
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by a chaplain there
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to give a talk
on Bible prophecy,
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which was quite an honor for me.
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And so I met, I
went there spoke,
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met the chaplain.
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And I remember sitting
with a chaplain in his office,
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and we discussed September
11, a little bit and he said,
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he just commented to me
that we know all the men
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that were involved in this act.
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We know everything about
them, we know their names,
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their
backgrounds, etc, etc, etc.
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And so, you know,
and this whole thing,
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what it did was it really was,
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you know, a big spark
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in America's,
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"war against terror".
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And, you know,
names like Al-Qaeda,
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and now further
on names like ISIS,
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and there's other groups
Boko Haram, and Hezbollah,
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and different groups
that are involved in.
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You know,
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open warfare
against people in the West,
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they want to kill us.
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And the fact is that
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they use surahs and verses
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in the Quran to
justify what they're doing.
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Isn't that right?
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Absolutely.
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Well, why don't you share,
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so I just read
one a little bit ago.
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I've read some
of them in the Quran
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and here's another one,
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this is in Surah 2, it says,
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"Kill them
wherever you find them."
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Verse, this is 1, verse 191.
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And then 193 says,
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"Fight with them until
there is no persecution,
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and religion
should be only for Allah."
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Now, why don't you
share a few others.
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And we'll just talk
about this and look at these,
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some of the other ones.
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Let me just quickly
say that radical Islam,
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there's this,
there's this willingness
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on the side of many Muslims
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that don't live
at least the ones
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that don't in the
Eastern distance themselves
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from radical Islam.
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But I want to share those,
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some of those verses
right now from the Quran.
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For instance, from Surah 9:5,
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because the argument is that
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the Quran doesn't
admonish us to fight anyone.
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But here's the verses,
a classical verse at it,
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I'm calling it says,
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"But when the
forbidden months are passed,
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then fight and slay the
pagans wherever you find them."
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I mean, to find somebody
is a deliberate seeking,
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searching looking for them.
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So this is not in self-defense,
this is actually going out.
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And it says, "And seize
them, lay siege upon them,
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and lie in wait for
them in every stratagem
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of where there's war.
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But if they repent
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and establish regular
prayers and practices,
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practice regular charity,
then open the way for them:
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For Allah is
Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
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So there's clearly here
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there is a deliberate going out,
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seeking the pagans,
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seeking for those
who are not believers,
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besieging them, killing them,
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lying in wait for
them, element of surprise.
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And this is not
necessarily in a war time,
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this is actually getting
up and doing it seems, says,
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after the
forbidden months are past.
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And then in same
chapter, verse 29,
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which gets a little more
closer to us as Christians,
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it says, "Fight those
who believe not in Allah
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nor the Last Day,
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nor hold that forbidden
which hath been forbidden
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by Allah and His apostle,
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nor acknowledge in
the religion of Truth,
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which is as them
as according to them,
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even if they are of
the People of the Book,
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until they pay the
Jizya with willing submission,
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and feel themselves subdued."
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So here in this verse,
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the admonition is to fight
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all those that
don't believe in Allah,
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that do not follow the religion
of Allah, which is Islam.
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And it says, even if they
are of the people of the book.
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So here's a
verse that admonishes
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and this is why
we saw on television,
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ISIS, murdering
Christians and Jews,
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because there's a verse
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that actually
justifies their actions.
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And if those
Christians do not become
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followers of Islam,
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they will kill them.
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And many instances,
these things have happened.
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Yeah, I don't
think there's ever been,
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well, maybe there
has, there probably has,
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but it seems like
it's hard to find a group
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that is more vicious than ISIS.
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I mean, you know, we,
you can go on to YouTube,
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and you can see
the horrible things
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that they've done,
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and they, you
know, they glory in that
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and they claim that
they're doing this for God,
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for Allah
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that He wants them to do this
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and it's just,
you know, it's awful.
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Well, ISIS is a
modern phenomenon,
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in a sense, you can say,
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but it's not the first
time Islam has done this.
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In the seventh century
when Persians invaded Persia,
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Persian
historians have recorded...
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Persians invaded Persia?
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I mean, excuse me,
Muslims invaded Persia, sorry,
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the Saracen
Muslims from the Arabia,
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Arabic Peninsula
when they invaded Persia,
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for the first time,
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historians in
Persia have recorded
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what happened and
is almost identical
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to what happened in Middle East
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in the last few years
with ISIS, no difference.
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They took the
women as sex slaves,
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they sold them, they
also killed their men.
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And if they became
Muslims, they would spare them,
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if not, they would
kill them and this happened
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for the first couple
of 100 years of the siege
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of the Persian
territory at that time.
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Now, I've read that
there's somewhere a little more
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than a hundred of these
type of statements in the Quran,
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I read 109 or
something like that,
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that are pretty
direct and straightforward.
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Now, let's just
clarify right out of the gate
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that we both know
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that there are
millions of Muslim people
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in this world
that aren't like that.
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So, you know, I've
talked to some here in America
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and I've watched, you
know, programs and YouTube,
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and I've seen
Muslims on YouTube,
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you know, just
clarifying very strongly
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that they're not violent people,
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they don't believe in this.
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It does not reflect their faith.
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And what
inevitably I hear them say,
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is that true
Islam as they see it,
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especially Western Christians,
00:11:52.11\00:11:53.44
and I'm sure
our Western Muslims,
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and I'm sure there
are many in the east
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that feel this way too.
00:11:56.44\00:11:57.78
True Islam does not condone
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or justify this
kind of violence.
00:12:00.88\00:12:04.62
You know, I guess they have
a, you know, a moderate view.
00:12:04.65\00:12:08.16
And this one man
that I met a Muslim man,
00:12:08.19\00:12:10.43
he said, none of my friends
00:12:10.46\00:12:11.79
would ever do
anything like this.
00:12:11.83\00:12:13.19
You know, this is
just not part of our world.
00:12:13.23\00:12:14.90
It's not part of our life.
00:12:14.93\00:12:17.30
You know, and they,
00:12:17.33\00:12:18.80
you know, they fear for
those that get radicalized,
00:12:18.83\00:12:22.60
and then get sucked
in to that kind of life.
00:12:22.64\00:12:26.07
But that's not
something that they believe in.
00:12:26.11\00:12:28.84
So my question
is, to you as well,
00:12:28.88\00:12:31.01
you know, what do they...
00:12:31.05\00:12:32.48
What do they do with
statements like this?
00:12:32.51\00:12:35.88
Oh, Prophet, urged the believers
00:12:35.92\00:12:37.69
to war and fight them
00:12:37.72\00:12:39.42
wherever you find
them and things like this.
00:12:39.45\00:12:41.69
How do they?
00:12:41.72\00:12:43.06
What do they do with
these, these statements?
00:12:46.09\00:12:47.86
Well, you know, they,
they have to, first of all,
00:12:47.90\00:12:51.67
when they say that
00:12:51.70\00:12:53.10
the Quran does
not promote violence,
00:12:53.13\00:12:56.30
they have to first of
all answer the question,
00:12:56.34\00:12:58.27
why did then the
Prophet Muhammad in his,
00:12:58.31\00:13:02.41
at least in the early
years of his ministry,
00:13:02.44\00:13:04.28
when he was in Makkah,
he was a peaceful prophet,
00:13:04.31\00:13:07.18
he only promoted the
message by preaching it.
00:13:07.22\00:13:11.15
And he had very few
followers in the years
00:13:11.19\00:13:13.02
that he was there
when he moved to Medina.
00:13:13.05\00:13:15.66
And after his
life was threatened,
00:13:15.69\00:13:17.03
and he and his
followers moved to Medina
00:13:17.06\00:13:19.09
is at Medina that
he got this impression
00:13:19.13\00:13:23.20
and the vision to use the sword.
00:13:23.23\00:13:25.53
And when he used the sword,
he had quickly he had success,
00:13:25.57\00:13:30.94
and in just a few short years,
he had thousands of supporters.
00:13:30.97\00:13:35.81
But the history of Islam is that
00:13:35.84\00:13:39.08
everywhere that
Islam was promoted,
00:13:39.11\00:13:41.12
it was promoted through war.
00:13:41.15\00:13:43.25
None of the countries
that became Islamic in history,
00:13:43.28\00:13:47.36
actually invited Muslims to come
00:13:47.39\00:13:49.62
and preach to us your message.
00:13:49.66\00:13:52.76
It was war,
they went into Persia
00:13:52.79\00:13:55.13
without being invited.
00:13:55.16\00:13:56.50
They went to
Eastern Roman Empire
00:13:56.53\00:13:59.57
around the same time,
00:13:59.60\00:14:01.10
in the seventh
century without being invited.
00:14:01.14\00:14:03.27
When they came to North Africa
00:14:03.30\00:14:05.01
and consequently
other places in Africa,
00:14:05.04\00:14:07.38
it was without invitation.
00:14:07.41\00:14:09.11
And it was at the
point of the sword.
00:14:09.14\00:14:11.38
So this is Abu Bakr is the one
that took the place of Muhammad
00:14:11.41\00:14:16.69
after his death.
00:14:16.72\00:14:18.05
And he wrote a letter
to the king of Persia,
00:14:18.09\00:14:20.52
sending him
commanding him to surrender.
00:14:20.56\00:14:22.86
And the king of Persia
said, we will not surrender
00:14:22.89\00:14:25.06
and they attacked and,
00:14:25.09\00:14:28.86
but so we see a
constant pattern here
00:14:28.90\00:14:33.57
through century a time
that Islam is sleeping,
00:14:33.60\00:14:36.67
and then suddenly it wakes up,
00:14:36.71\00:14:38.07
then it's
sleeping, then it wakes up,
00:14:38.11\00:14:39.71
then it's sleeping.
00:14:39.74\00:14:41.08
And it started that way,
00:14:41.11\00:14:42.44
it started with it
was at first sleeping,
00:14:42.48\00:14:44.85
then it started to
just basically attack
00:14:44.88\00:14:47.98
and ponder and
takeover by force.
00:14:48.02\00:14:51.02
So again, how do
non-violent natured Muslims
00:14:51.05\00:14:56.99
explain these statements?
00:14:57.03\00:14:59.23
Well, they cannot explain it.
00:14:59.26\00:15:00.60
They are trying to...
00:15:00.63\00:15:02.06
What they're trying to
do, they're trying to marry,
00:15:02.10\00:15:05.83
give in marriage
between their own expression
00:15:05.87\00:15:09.20
and worldview of Islam
00:15:09.24\00:15:12.57
to that which the
Quran talks about,
00:15:12.61\00:15:14.21
therefore, they
come up with ideas
00:15:14.24\00:15:15.74
that those verses are
only for times of war,
00:15:15.78\00:15:20.52
or those verses are designed
to help us to understand
00:15:20.55\00:15:26.42
that that was the
way it was back then.
00:15:26.45\00:15:30.13
But it's not saying that,
00:15:30.16\00:15:31.83
it's actually there's a
command to get up and wage war.
00:15:31.86\00:15:34.86
I've heard that
the idea that jihad,
00:15:34.90\00:15:39.00
that you know, may, it
may seem to be physical,
00:15:39.03\00:15:43.61
you know, a call
to physical warfare
00:15:43.64\00:15:45.34
against the unbelievers
00:15:45.37\00:15:46.71
but one of the ways they look at
00:15:46.74\00:15:48.08
this would be jihad
is actually spiritual.
00:15:48.11\00:15:50.45
It's a spiritual conflict.
00:15:50.48\00:15:51.95
It's not a physical conflict.
00:15:51.98\00:15:53.38
It's a spiritual conflict.
00:15:53.42\00:15:54.75
So the calls to
rise up and go to war
00:15:54.78\00:15:57.02
have to do with
warring against yourself
00:15:57.05\00:16:00.02
and warring against
your sins and trying to,
00:16:00.06\00:16:02.76
you know, get closer to God.
00:16:02.79\00:16:05.06
That's what they say,
but the verse is very clear,
00:16:05.09\00:16:07.90
you can't have a spiritual jihad
00:16:07.93\00:16:10.13
while you're killing pagans,
00:16:10.17\00:16:12.43
and non-unbelievers.
00:16:12.47\00:16:13.80
You can have a spiritual death,
00:16:13.84\00:16:15.17
that's not spiritual
jihad, that's a physical jihad,
00:16:15.20\00:16:17.61
because they're
actually killing the pagans,
00:16:17.64\00:16:19.97
they're killing
the non-believers
00:16:20.01\00:16:21.44
that will not follow Islam.
00:16:21.48\00:16:23.78
I mean, so it seems to me that,
00:16:23.81\00:16:27.22
you know, that those
who have a sort of a,
00:16:27.25\00:16:30.99
you know, a
peaceful version of Islam,
00:16:31.02\00:16:33.82
which is what a lot of people do
00:16:33.86\00:16:36.52
they have that.
00:16:36.56\00:16:37.89
That they're really,
00:16:37.93\00:16:39.83
you know,
they're doing their best
00:16:39.86\00:16:41.20
to try to kind of get
around these statements
00:16:41.23\00:16:44.13
or to rationalize them
00:16:44.17\00:16:45.53
or to interpret
them in a different way.
00:16:45.57\00:16:49.64
But when you really
look at them straight out,
00:16:49.67\00:16:52.91
it's really not what they say.
00:16:52.94\00:16:54.84
And isn't it true that
these are the very statements
00:16:54.88\00:16:57.61
that groups like
ISIS and Al-Qaeda,
00:16:57.65\00:17:00.32
and Boko Haram and
you know, the "radicals"
00:17:00.35\00:17:04.22
they use these quotes,
00:17:04.25\00:17:05.85
and they fuel them to
do what they're doing?
00:17:05.89\00:17:08.76
And that they say
00:17:08.79\00:17:10.23
that the moderates
are really apostate,
00:17:10.26\00:17:13.06
they're really not
following their own book.
00:17:13.09\00:17:15.36
Isn't that they claim?
00:17:15.40\00:17:16.73
Actually is their claim and,
00:17:16.77\00:17:18.20
in fact, in many of
the recruiting videos
00:17:18.23\00:17:21.40
of ISIS,
00:17:21.44\00:17:24.74
their thing was the
message to the Muslim world
00:17:24.77\00:17:27.31
was go back to the
book and read the book,
00:17:27.34\00:17:29.98
and see what the book says.
00:17:30.01\00:17:31.85
And based on the
book, come and join us
00:17:31.88\00:17:34.25
because they knew
00:17:34.28\00:17:35.62
if the Muslims
would go and read,
00:17:35.65\00:17:36.99
they will see these verses
00:17:37.02\00:17:38.35
that they have
been called to war.
00:17:38.39\00:17:42.89
In my getting
ready for these programs,
00:17:42.92\00:17:47.30
a friend of mine
recommended a book
00:17:47.33\00:17:49.36
called Seeking
Allah Finding Jesus,
00:17:49.40\00:17:51.73
this is an amazing book.
00:17:51.77\00:17:53.40
It's a New York
Times bestseller,
00:17:53.44\00:17:55.87
written by Nabeel Qureshi.
00:17:55.90\00:17:58.81
And the subtitle says,
00:17:58.84\00:18:00.18
a devout Muslim
encounters Christianity.
00:18:00.21\00:18:02.71
And it says over
500,000 copies sold,
00:18:02.74\00:18:05.15
and I read this
book cover to cover
00:18:05.18\00:18:06.68
and this was a Muslim man,
00:18:06.72\00:18:08.35
you know, as you were growing up
00:18:08.38\00:18:09.72
a Muslim as well.
00:18:09.75\00:18:11.09
And this man, you
know, was a searcher
00:18:11.12\00:18:12.95
and he finally started
looking at these issues
00:18:12.99\00:18:14.82
and wrestling with these issues.
00:18:14.86\00:18:16.56
And at one point,
he has a section here,
00:18:16.59\00:18:19.83
where he went to his house
00:18:19.86\00:18:21.43
and he went into
his dad's library,
00:18:21.46\00:18:23.50
and he found a copy,
00:18:23.53\00:18:25.23
a full copy of Sahih
Bukhari's nine volumes,
00:18:25.27\00:18:29.47
which is a Hadith, you
know, you know what that is.
00:18:29.50\00:18:32.67
It's a collection of almost,
00:18:32.71\00:18:34.14
that almost all
Muslims considered to be
00:18:34.18\00:18:36.48
the most historically authentic.
00:18:36.51\00:18:39.55
And then it says,
it didn't take him long
00:18:39.58\00:18:41.95
after reading this to
realize that the Muhammad
00:18:41.98\00:18:44.05
that he had come to know,
00:18:44.09\00:18:45.52
was really a filtered version.
00:18:45.55\00:18:47.86
And it took him about
30 seconds to realize that
00:18:47.89\00:18:50.69
as he got in deeper,
00:18:50.73\00:18:52.63
and then he says
in the first volume,
00:18:52.66\00:18:54.10
the third Hadith
told the familiar story
00:18:54.13\00:18:56.90
of Muhammad's first
revelation in the cave of Hira.
00:18:56.93\00:19:00.00
Is it Hira?
00:19:00.04\00:19:01.70
It included the details
I'd learned in childhood,
00:19:01.74\00:19:04.11
but there were more particulars
that I had not heard before.
00:19:04.14\00:19:07.54
Instead of recounting
that the Angel Gabriel
00:19:07.58\00:19:09.78
simply asked Muhammad to recite
00:19:09.81\00:19:12.58
what he was being given.
00:19:12.61\00:19:13.95
Muhammad himself reported
00:19:13.98\00:19:15.45
that the angel
caught me forcefully,
00:19:15.48\00:19:18.12
and pressed me so hard
00:19:18.15\00:19:19.75
that I could
not bear it anymore.
00:19:19.79\00:19:21.69
Each time the
angel asked Muhammad
00:19:21.72\00:19:23.39
to recite verses,
00:19:23.43\00:19:25.29
the angel
pressed Muhammad so hard
00:19:25.33\00:19:28.00
that he could not
bear the pressure.
00:19:28.03\00:19:29.96
After his encounters
with the angel Muhammad
00:19:30.00\00:19:32.13
returned to his wife terrified.
00:19:32.17\00:19:34.87
"His heart was
beating severely."
00:19:34.90\00:19:36.94
And then it says,
when he saw Gabriel,
00:19:36.97\00:19:40.64
his neck muscles
twitched in terror
00:19:40.68\00:19:43.31
when the angel came back.
00:19:43.35\00:19:44.95
And then it says, when Gabriel
had been gone for a while,
00:19:44.98\00:19:48.18
the Prophet was so depressed,
00:19:48.22\00:19:50.35
that he intended
several times to throw himself
00:19:50.39\00:19:53.42
from the top of high mountains.
00:19:53.46\00:19:55.12
So he discovered from
reading this respected Hadith
00:19:55.16\00:19:58.39
that Muhammad was actually,
00:19:58.43\00:20:00.26
you know, almost
assaulted by this angel named,
00:20:00.30\00:20:04.97
apparently Gabriel,
00:20:05.00\00:20:06.40
when he first
encountered him in the cave
00:20:06.43\00:20:08.44
and that he became,
00:20:08.47\00:20:10.14
he became suicidal
00:20:10.17\00:20:11.51
or, you know, he had to
resist not killing himself.
00:20:11.54\00:20:14.41
And Nabeel says that
00:20:14.44\00:20:17.38
this was a different version.
00:20:17.41\00:20:21.12
But he read that, you
know, in respected writings.
00:20:21.15\00:20:25.62
When I was a Muslim,
we were all told that
00:20:25.65\00:20:28.82
when Gabriel visited Muhammad,
00:20:28.86\00:20:30.96
there was a very
peaceful encounter.
00:20:30.99\00:20:34.50
And it was very nice.
00:20:34.53\00:20:35.86
And it was, it was
a divine revelation.
00:20:35.90\00:20:38.83
But the Hadith
that you just quoted
00:20:38.87\00:20:42.20
is actually the one
absolutely the most respected
00:20:42.24\00:20:46.11
on all levels within Islam.
00:20:46.14\00:20:48.68
And they just, but most clerics
00:20:48.71\00:20:52.28
will not quote from
that particular section.
00:20:52.31\00:20:55.85
And, you know, like I said,
when you look at the statements
00:20:55.88\00:20:58.45
in the Quran,
00:20:58.49\00:20:59.82
you know, in the last
one of our last programs,
00:20:59.85\00:21:02.29
I think it was the
last one we talked about,
00:21:02.32\00:21:04.33
John 16:13,
where Jesus said that
00:21:04.36\00:21:08.13
when the Spirit
of truth is come,
00:21:08.16\00:21:10.50
he will guide
you into all truth.
00:21:10.53\00:21:13.00
And, you know, it
sure seems to me that,
00:21:13.03\00:21:17.24
that the Spirit
of truth, of honesty,
00:21:17.27\00:21:21.54
of sober thinking,
00:21:21.58\00:21:23.18
when you really look at
these statements in the Quran,
00:21:23.21\00:21:27.72
that they really are violent,
00:21:27.75\00:21:29.85
and to just say that
00:21:29.88\00:21:31.85
they're just dealing
with spiritual jihad,
00:21:31.89\00:21:34.66
or that they're dealing
00:21:34.69\00:21:36.02
just with the
historical context only
00:21:36.06\00:21:38.03
and that you know,
that the Quran itself
00:21:38.06\00:21:43.26
isn't responsible for
these groups like ISIS
00:21:43.30\00:21:47.84
that are doing
what they're doing,
00:21:47.87\00:21:50.07
you know, it just
doesn't seem to me
00:21:50.11\00:21:51.87
to be really a true evaluation.
00:21:51.91\00:21:56.48
Spirit of truth wants us
to see truth to see the facts.
00:21:56.51\00:22:02.38
And, you know,
this reminds me of a...
00:22:02.42\00:22:05.85
Of an encounter that
Jesus had with Pontius Pilate
00:22:05.89\00:22:09.22
in John Chapter 18,
00:22:09.26\00:22:12.26
where Jesus
answered Pilate in verse 36,
00:22:12.29\00:22:15.06
and He said, "My
kingdom is not of this world.
00:22:15.10\00:22:17.50
If my kingdom
were of this world,
00:22:17.53\00:22:19.37
then my servants would fight,
00:22:19.40\00:22:21.84
that I should not be
delivered to the Jews,
00:22:21.87\00:22:23.67
but now is My
kingdom not from here."
00:22:23.71\00:22:26.54
So Jesus Christ clearly taught
00:22:26.57\00:22:29.31
that his servants
were not to fight,
00:22:29.34\00:22:31.35
he didn't justify,
00:22:31.38\00:22:34.25
you know, human violence
00:22:34.28\00:22:36.52
against other people in any way.
00:22:36.55\00:22:38.79
And then Pilate said to
Him, "Are you a king then?"
00:22:38.82\00:22:41.19
And Jesus answered,
"You say that I am a king,
00:22:41.22\00:22:43.69
to this end I
was born and for this
00:22:43.73\00:22:45.29
cause I came into the world,
00:22:45.33\00:22:46.90
that I should bear
witness to the truth.
00:22:46.93\00:22:49.36
Everyone who is of
the truth hears My voice."
00:22:49.40\00:22:53.17
And it's, you
know, it's very clear
00:22:53.20\00:22:55.84
in the gospels that Jesus,
00:22:55.87\00:22:58.81
Jesus Himself did not promote
00:22:58.84\00:23:02.31
or justify or defend
any kind of persecution
00:23:02.34\00:23:07.75
or violence against others.
00:23:07.78\00:23:09.25
Here's another
verse in Matthew 5:44,
00:23:09.28\00:23:12.42
where Jesus said,
"But I say to you,
00:23:12.45\00:23:14.32
love your enemies,
bless them that curse you,
00:23:14.36\00:23:16.62
do good to them that
hate you, and pray for them,
00:23:16.66\00:23:19.19
which spitefully use
you and persecute you,
00:23:19.23\00:23:22.63
that you may be the
children of your Father,
00:23:22.66\00:23:25.13
which is in heaven."
00:23:25.17\00:23:26.50
Amen.
00:23:26.53\00:23:28.50
What a contrast from the verses
00:23:28.54\00:23:29.87
that we just
read from the Quran.
00:23:29.90\00:23:31.61
And I have to say
one thing else that,
00:23:31.64\00:23:33.78
this Christ of peace,
00:23:33.81\00:23:39.48
He said,
00:23:39.51\00:23:40.85
you know, He came to
save that which was lost.
00:23:40.88\00:23:43.52
And when you make a contrast
with what we've seen in ISIS,
00:23:43.55\00:23:47.29
I have to add
this as well that ISIS
00:23:47.32\00:23:49.76
didn't just come into
existence in a vacuum,
00:23:49.79\00:23:52.93
you know, there
was nothing there
00:23:52.96\00:23:54.90
and then suddenly,
00:23:54.93\00:23:56.26
no, there was reasons for
ISIS to come to existence.
00:23:56.30\00:23:59.53
And we see that from
these verses in the Quran.
00:23:59.57\00:24:02.10
And they did not
just accidentally say,
00:24:02.14\00:24:05.94
oh, let's go do
this in an opposition
00:24:05.97\00:24:09.08
to what the Quran says.
00:24:09.11\00:24:10.55
Because ISIS claims to be
00:24:10.58\00:24:11.91
the most faithful
movement to the Quran,
00:24:11.95\00:24:16.45
which is a Sunni
Wahhabi movement,
00:24:16.48\00:24:19.19
and that they believe that
00:24:19.22\00:24:21.06
they are adhering to
the letter of the book,
00:24:21.09\00:24:23.53
the Quran,
00:24:23.56\00:24:25.29
and that's why they're
doing what they're doing.
00:24:25.33\00:24:27.23
And same with Al-Qaeda,
00:24:27.26\00:24:29.30
and all the other
radical movements in Islam.
00:24:29.33\00:24:35.00
So I guess,
00:24:35.04\00:24:36.37
you know, those who
are non-violent by nature,
00:24:36.40\00:24:41.61
which is millions of Muslims.
00:24:41.64\00:24:44.45
You know, it seems to me that
00:24:44.48\00:24:46.05
they just really
need to take a hard look
00:24:46.08\00:24:49.38
at these statements?
00:24:49.42\00:24:51.09
The vast majority of
Muslims are not violent.
00:24:51.12\00:24:54.99
The vast majority.
00:24:55.02\00:24:56.73
If they were, if
they were all like ISIS,
00:24:56.76\00:24:59.03
it will be horrible
situation in the world
00:24:59.06\00:25:01.26
worse than what it is right now.
00:25:01.30\00:25:02.63
Yeah.
00:25:02.66\00:25:04.00
And then people
have to ask themselves,
00:25:04.03\00:25:05.37
you know, is this really?
00:25:05.40\00:25:07.44
Is this really what I believe?
00:25:07.47\00:25:09.10
You know, do I really believe
that statements like that?
00:25:09.14\00:25:13.51
Did they really come from God?
00:25:13.54\00:25:15.98
Or maybe something
else is involved, you know?
00:25:16.01\00:25:20.25
And then take a look at Jesus,
00:25:20.28\00:25:21.92
take a look at Him and His life,
00:25:21.95\00:25:24.29
that He didn't
teach any of these things.
00:25:24.32\00:25:26.86
Pontius Pilate said,
"I find no fault with Him.
00:25:26.89\00:25:29.66
No fault in Him."
00:25:29.69\00:25:31.03
You know, there's
another verse that I've been,
00:25:31.06\00:25:32.49
I was just
thinking about in Isaiah 53,
00:25:32.53\00:25:35.86
which is a prophecy of Christ.
00:25:35.90\00:25:39.13
It describes his suffering,
what He would go through,
00:25:39.17\00:25:42.24
how He would be led as
a lamb to the slaughter,
00:25:42.27\00:25:45.54
as a sheep before
her shearers is dumb,
00:25:45.57\00:25:48.71
so he opens not his mouth,
00:25:48.74\00:25:50.61
he would be taken from prison,
00:25:50.65\00:25:52.45
and from judgment,
00:25:52.48\00:25:54.65
he would be cut off out
of the land of the living
00:25:54.68\00:25:57.35
for the
transgression of my people,
00:25:57.39\00:25:59.29
he would be stricken.
00:25:59.32\00:26:00.66
And then verse 9 says,
00:26:00.69\00:26:02.02
that "He made his
grave with the wicked
00:26:02.06\00:26:04.06
and with the rich in his death,"
00:26:04.09\00:26:05.59
which is exactly what happened.
00:26:05.63\00:26:06.96
He was put in the tomb
of Joseph of Arimathea,
00:26:07.00\00:26:09.30
a rich man.
00:26:09.33\00:26:10.67
And then it says,
00:26:10.70\00:26:12.03
because he had done no violence,
00:26:12.07\00:26:15.04
neither was there any
deceit found in his mouth.
00:26:15.07\00:26:18.64
So it's very
clear from this passage
00:26:18.67\00:26:20.64
that Jesus Himself
00:26:20.68\00:26:22.44
was no violence
in His life at all.
00:26:22.48\00:26:25.21
And I just think, you
know, what a role model,
00:26:25.25\00:26:27.38
what an example to us today.
00:26:27.42\00:26:30.12
And there should be no violence
in the followers of Christ.
00:26:30.15\00:26:33.92
All those that follow
Christ have the same spirit.
00:26:33.96\00:26:37.23
And it's true that
if you look at history,
00:26:37.26\00:26:39.03
I mean, there
have been Christians
00:26:39.06\00:26:40.40
who have persecuted
in the past "Christians
00:26:40.43\00:26:43.16
during the Dark Ages."
00:26:43.20\00:26:44.73
And there's been
a lot of persecution
00:26:44.77\00:26:46.67
in the name of God,
00:26:46.70\00:26:48.14
throughout history
in different religions.
00:26:48.17\00:26:50.87
But according to Jesus Himself,
that's not something that
00:26:50.91\00:26:55.61
Jesus taught that He
justifies that He supports.
00:26:55.64\00:27:01.08
He said, My servants, you
know, if I was of this world,
00:27:01.12\00:27:05.02
my servants would fight.
00:27:05.05\00:27:06.86
But I am not from here.
00:27:06.89\00:27:09.42
I am from above.
00:27:09.46\00:27:11.16
And I'm a King.
00:27:11.19\00:27:13.83
I'm the King of kings
and the Lord of lords.
00:27:13.86\00:27:16.10
Well, we've looked
at some of the evidence
00:27:16.13\00:27:19.70
from the Bible and the Quran,
00:27:19.73\00:27:21.07
and really, you know,
it's up to you to decide.
00:27:21.10\00:27:25.37
You know, who
you want to follow?
00:27:25.41\00:27:27.61
And who, whose
teachings resonate
00:27:27.64\00:27:31.21
with your conscience
00:27:31.25\00:27:32.58
and with what
you know to be right.
00:27:32.61\00:27:35.15
And I just want to end with,
00:27:35.18\00:27:38.22
we read yesterday
in our last program,
00:27:38.25\00:27:40.29
John 16:13, Jesus talked
about the spirit of truth,
00:27:40.32\00:27:43.59
guiding us into all truth,
00:27:43.63\00:27:45.46
and it's our hope and prayer
00:27:45.49\00:27:46.83
that the Holy Spirit of Truth
00:27:46.86\00:27:48.76
will guide your
life now and forever.
00:27:48.80\00:27:53.34
We hope you enjoyed
watching Good News for Muslims
00:27:53.37\00:27:55.90
with Steve Wohlberg and Shahbaz.
00:27:55.94\00:27:58.31
This entire 13-part
series is now available on DVD.
00:27:58.34\00:28:02.91
To order from within the US,
00:28:02.94\00:28:04.41
call White Horse
Media at 1-800-782-4253.
00:28:04.45\00:28:10.22
To watch the series
online or for more information,
00:28:10.25\00:28:12.79
visit the website
www.goodnewsformuslims.com
00:28:12.82\00:28:17.13