Participants: Gary Krause (Host), Ty Gibson, Hans Olson
Series Code: GMS
Program Code: GMS000020
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00:01 Have you ever started talking about your faith
00:03 with the complete stranger? 00:05 We meet people every day 00:06 and once in a while a door opens 00:08 to talk about what we believe. 00:11 It can be on a plane, a train, a bus 00:14 or waiting in line or may be online. 00:17 How do we know what to do? 00:18 How do we know what to say? 00:20 How can we make God real 00:23 and relevant to people in today's world. 00:26 Well, stay tune to learn more 00:28 on "Global Mission Snapshots." 00:33 Just before He went up to heaven, 00:36 Jesus gave us a command. 00:39 He gave us a mission. 00:41 Jesus said, go. 00:44 Go unto all the world, telling them of His love. 00:49 This is our mission. This is our "Global Mission." 00:58 Hello and welcome to Global Mission Snapshots. 01:01 I'm Gary Krause. 01:02 Today we'll be talking about church planting 01:05 in the European country of Serbia. 01:07 We'll also talk with Ty Gibson from Light Bearers, 01:10 who has been creating a series of thought 01:12 provoking online videos 01:15 aimed at not church people but at nonbelievers. 01:18 And we'll find out what's behind these videos, 01:21 where you can find them 01:22 and how you maybe able to use them. 01:25 But first let's watch one of these videos 01:27 called "Atheist Too." 01:32 Not too long ago, 01:34 I had a super interesting encounter 01:36 on a flight out of Denver. 01:38 As I took my seat and began reading 01:40 whatever book I happened to have with me, 01:42 it became obvious that the guy sitting next to me 01:45 was looking over my shoulder 01:47 and catching a few glances of whatever it was. 01:50 He must have saw the word God or some religious terminology 01:53 because rather casually the guy leaned over 01:56 and he says looks like interesting book. 01:58 But then after a short pause, 02:00 just bluntly out of nowhere 02:02 the guy says, "But I'm an atheist." 02:04 Evidently he was an outgoing guy 02:07 and looking for some conversation 02:08 and so I said, "Actually, I'm an atheist too." 02:12 Clearly he was little surprised, 02:14 no doubt because the book I was reading. 02:16 He was like, seriously, you're an atheist. 02:19 Yeah, absolutely, I told him. 02:21 Then I threw him an unexpected curve ball. 02:24 I said, describe for me the God you don't believe in. 02:28 he was jolted to say the least by the question. 02:32 But I knew that there was some 02:34 definable picture of God in his head 02:37 that gave rise to his atheism. 02:40 But he went silent, so I figured conversation over. 02:47 But then after thinking for a moment or two, 02:50 the guy opens the conversation again 02:52 and he says, you know, what I mean, 02:53 a super powerful supreme being 02:56 presiding somewhere in the sky 02:58 that rules over us with absolute control. 03:02 He paused again and then he just plowed forward man, 03:06 he just let it all out. 03:07 You know, before we were born, 03:09 this God decides who gets to go to heaven, 03:11 who is going to burn in hell forever. 03:13 Of course we've no saying in the matter, 03:15 because he is mister almighty God. 03:17 It's his universe, so how dare anybody question him. 03:21 He can do whatever, he jolly well pleases. 03:27 Well, he was on a roll now doing a great job 03:31 of defining his atheism and mine too. 03:35 It's all utter nonsense he went on. 03:38 And we're supposed to love this tyrant. 03:40 I don't even like him and I'm pretty sure that 03:43 liking someone has got to come before loving them. 03:47 He's more like a monster than a God. 03:50 I was right with this guy, I have to tell you, 03:53 just right with him. Yeah, I totally agree, I said. 03:59 It's a pretty diabolical picture, ah. 04:01 Yeah, he said. 04:03 I don't know how anyone can believe in such a God. 04:07 Me neither I agreed. I certainly don't. 04:11 I don't believe in the existence 04:13 of any such God as you just described, 04:17 but I want to ask you another question. 04:22 I mean, hypothetically just for the sake of discussion. 04:26 What if a God the exact opposite 04:30 of the one you've just described could exist? 04:33 Would you want him to? 04:38 He was jolted again just thinking about the idea. 04:42 What do you mean, he says? 04:43 Like what? 04:44 So I offered a totally different picture. 04:47 Well, what if a God could exist 04:50 who was nothing but total goodness, 04:53 perfectly just, perfectly merciful 04:56 to everyone all the time. 04:58 A God who always does the right thing 05:01 toward every person. 05:03 A God who would literally give everybody 05:07 total freedom to decide their own destiny 05:09 and never in a million years torture 05:12 anybody who didn't agree with him. 05:17 What if a God could exist, 05:18 who is literally the kind of person 05:21 who would rather die than commit 05:24 and injustice against any person. 05:26 I mean, if a God like that could exist. 05:29 Would you want him to? 05:31 I could see that this was totally new territory for him. 05:35 But after thinking for just a few seconds, 05:39 he said what any rational person would have to say. 05:42 Well, sure he said, I'd be fool not to, right. 05:46 Yeah, right. I agreed with him. 05:50 Then he said, but, no way, man, 05:52 we can't just manufacture whatever God we want 05:56 and I agreed with him again. 05:57 No, we can't manufacture whatever God we want. 06:02 But he was listening, so I elaborated. 06:05 Listen, man, I totally resonate with your atheism, 06:09 because I find many of the popular views of God 06:12 is repulsive as you do. 06:14 But I believe that the one 06:17 and only true God is beautiful in the extreme. 06:21 And you've said that you would want that 06:24 kind of God to exist if he could. 06:26 Well, I simply do believe the very thing 06:29 that you want to believe. 06:32 So you're not really atheist he says to me. 06:36 Well, actually I am. 06:38 I am an atheist in the sense 06:39 that I don't believe in the cruel tyrannical God 06:42 you just described, but I do believe in God. 06:45 But I believe in a God who is nothing like the God 06:49 you don't believe in it. 06:51 So as far as I can see you haven't rejected my God, 06:55 because the fact is, 06:56 you've never even considered him. 06:58 I'm asking you to believe in a God of sheer beauty 07:02 and perfect goodness. 07:04 And I totally commend you 07:07 for not believing in the false God 07:09 that you were raised to believe in. 07:11 I mean, this guys mental wheels were turning. 07:15 And you know why? 07:16 I found that many people who don't believe in God 07:19 don't believe in a particular picture of God, 07:22 a self serving, threatening tyrant 07:26 who wants to either control us or damn us. 07:29 They reject the only option they've ever been taught. 07:34 While somewhere in their hearts, 07:36 their desire of God worthy of their love and worship. 07:41 I mean, what if? 07:44 What if the God who does exist 07:47 is nothing at all, 07:49 like many popular religions portray God to be? 07:52 What if God is love in the strongest, 07:57 in most beautiful sense imaginable. 08:01 What if? 08:05 It's my pleasure to welcome Ty Gibson to the program. 08:09 Ty, terrific video. 08:12 Where did the idea for digma come from? 08:14 Well, first of all just the word digma, Gary, 08:17 it's the second half of the word paradigma 08:20 from which we get the English word paradigm. 08:23 And that part of the word digma 08:25 just means to reveal something 08:26 or to disclose something 08:28 by way of a story, your metaphor. 08:30 And so the idea came that it would be 08:32 great to produce some short videos, 08:35 not long videos, not like sermons 08:36 30, 40, 50, 60 minutes 08:38 but just short videos 5 to 7 minutes long 08:41 that would disclose or reveal key ideas 08:46 about the existence of God and the character of God. 08:48 So we started producing the videos 08:50 for the general population, 08:53 people who don't really know, does God exist or not. 08:55 If he does, what kind of person is he? 08:57 Fantastic and it's done in a style that will appeal, 09:01 maybe not to the traditional church person in the pew, 09:04 although I've enjoyed them very much, 09:06 but aimed at people who are used to high quality video. 09:09 Oh, good, good, I'm glad you've enjoyed them. 09:11 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 09:13 The response has been overwhelming. 09:15 We've had a number of academy teachers 09:18 who are showing them in their classroom 09:20 and having the kids write book reports. 09:22 We've had people from secular university say, 09:27 "Hey, can we just circulate these on campus." 09:30 And we said, "Sure, please, please do." 09:33 So the thing that's unique about these videos, 09:35 Gary, is number one, you don't feel like 09:38 you're being preached to. 09:39 Because they are aiming 09:40 for a particular kind of person. 09:42 Actually the kind of person I was, as I grew up. 09:45 I wasn't raised in any kind of church 09:47 or religion whatsoever. 09:49 And these videos are aiming to speak to people 09:53 who just aren't certain about anything spiritual, 09:57 maybe, maybe not, 09:58 God could exist, may he doesn't exist. 10:01 Not people who are militant against the existence of God, 10:04 but people who just aren't sure. 10:06 And so it's not preachy. 10:08 There is no Bible in my hand, 10:09 although of course I use certain, 10:11 you know, Bible verses to make certain points. 10:13 There is no pulpit. 10:15 It's telling stories in such a way as to convey answers to, 10:21 I guess you would say the intuitive 10:23 kinds of questions people ask. 10:24 Like, like, okay, if God does exist, 10:28 why is there so much suffering in the world. Right. 10:29 That's a key question and people are asking it. 10:31 I grew up asking it. 10:33 Yeah, now how many of you done so far? 10:35 Right now on the website at digma.com 10:37 there are seven that are finished 10:40 and ready to be used 10:42 and people can use them anyway they like. 10:44 They can email them to people 10:45 free of choice to stimulate conversations, 10:47 that's a really good use for them. 10:50 But seven are there now we have I think, 10:52 five more right now that are in postproduction. 10:56 That means I've already written the scripts 10:57 and delivered the information 10:59 and now we are in the postproduction phase 11:02 to just, you know, put the music and the B roll 11:04 and all that kind of stuff to finish it up. 11:08 And then we are going to do an additional number 11:10 that will add up to 24 total in the end. 11:14 Now when I traditionally think of Light Bearers 11:16 I'm thinking of literature 11:19 but so what made you want to branch out to this. 11:22 I mean, what was the motivation? 11:25 Well, we live in a world right now 11:26 that is super oriented toward visual information. 11:32 People are getting information 11:33 more and more by watching short little videos. 11:37 I have to say that for myself even--even news. 11:40 I just get little sound bites now 11:43 through twitter and on my computer. 11:45 There is just a growing population 11:47 especially people in their teens, 11:49 their 20s and their 30s who are accessing information 11:53 through short video clips. 11:55 And so we though wow, there is an audience out there, 11:58 there are people who are accessing information 12:01 through this medium why not preach the gospel 12:04 or share the truths that we hold here with that audience. 12:09 So we said, yeah, let's do it. Let's try it. 12:11 So why come at the-- 12:13 like the story telling angle et cetera. 12:15 Why not just do 28 videos telling the fundamentals videos. 12:19 This is a really good question and people ask-- 12:21 ask about this often, Gary. 12:24 I remember a verse in the Gospel of Matthew for example. 12:26 It's a very, very straight forward verse 12:28 that jolted me at first. 12:31 It said, Jesus-- speaking of Jesus it said, 12:34 He said nothing to them without using a parable. 12:37 Now parables are story with a point. 12:40 So I thought well, why does Jesus use parables so often? 12:43 Why is this the chief medium of His communication? 12:47 Well, I've discovered over the years in preaching 12:50 and now in this medium that a story can deposit an idea 12:56 a truth in people's heart almost through the back door. 12:59 They don't even-- they are thinking 13:00 oh, that story is very interesting and then, wow. 13:03 Something dawns on them. 13:04 They think, I never thought of it from that angle before. 13:08 That's the power of story. 13:09 Story has the power to convey truth 13:13 in a way that reaches not only the mind, 13:16 the intellect which is important 13:17 but also the heart. 13:18 So it reaches into the heart in a significant way. 13:20 So that's why we are using stories. 13:22 Number one, because Jesus is the greatest teacher 13:25 that ever lived and He found stories to be very effective. 13:29 And also just because people remember the point 13:33 and it reaches into the emotional region 13:35 of their being rather than merely saying, 13:37 you know, here are the facts in propositional style 13:40 and therefore you opt to believe it 13:42 rather here is a story that you will find intuitive-- 13:47 you will agree with it almost without even thinking about it 13:50 and then it will dawn on you. 13:51 Oh, hey, I just realized that there are good reasons 13:54 to believe that God exists and that He is good. 13:57 So that's the angle that we are coming at it from. 14:00 It was good enough for Jesus. That's right. That's right. 14:04 And of course part of the, 14:06 the postmodern populations they are attracted to stories. 14:11 They are not attracted to traditional preaching. 14:13 That's right. That's right. 14:14 And not only that the genius of this videos 14:17 one of the things 14:18 that's great about it Gary, is there are short. 14:20 Not only is the postmodern population 14:23 not a custom to preaching as a style. 14:25 They are not a custom really just sitting down 14:27 and listening to a monologue or somebody just talked to them 14:30 for an hour straight of information. 14:35 This is a way of communicating with people 14:37 that's where they are at 14:39 but we are not watering it down at all 14:41 in the sense of just telling cute stories. 14:44 These scripts are written very precisely 14:47 in order to convey a large amount of information 14:51 in a very short space of time. 14:52 I would encourage people to check them out. 14:54 The thing that's great about them is they are short. 14:57 So you watch one and it's not dealing with, 15:00 you know, 10 different points. It's dealing with one point. 15:02 Does God exist are there good reasons 15:04 to believe that He does 15:05 or for example if God does exist why is there suffering. 15:09 I mentioned to that one. 15:10 So in a short space of time 15:13 you get the answer to those vital questions 15:15 and you don't have to take a lot of time 15:17 to come to that conclusion. Fantastic, Ty. 15:20 Thank you so much for joining us. 15:22 Viewers at home, make sure that you go to digma.com. 15:27 It's a ministry of Light Bearers 15:29 and it is something that perhaps 15:31 you might find useful in sharing 15:33 with a neighbor, with a friend. 15:35 You can email them, you can download it 15:37 you can show them. 15:38 Good conversation to start is to open up people's minds 15:41 and their hearts to even think about spiritual things. 15:44 And please pray for Ty, pray for Light Bearers Ministry. 16:56 Welcome back. 16:57 My next guest is Hans Olson 16:59 who is a communication projects manager 17:01 with the office of Adventist Mission. 17:03 Glad you could join us, Hans. Thank you, Gary. 17:05 Now, you know, sometimes 17:06 when we think about the mission field 17:08 we are thinking about Africa, Asia, et cetera 17:11 but we forget about the big challenge 17:13 that we still have in Europe, North America, 17:15 Australia, New Zealand. 17:18 Not so long ago you visited Europe 17:20 and we want to talk about two countries. 17:22 One of which is Macedonia which we know from the Bible 17:26 come over to Macedonia and help us. 17:28 I haven't been there for many years. 17:30 When I was there, there was a very strong 17:31 focus on church planting in the capital city. 17:34 What did you find when you visited there? 17:37 Well, in Macedonia we visited with a lay person. 17:43 He actually is-- he is a professional musician. 17:46 He is part of three different groups. 17:48 He is a primarily with woodwinds, 17:51 oboe and a clarinet. 17:54 And I believe saxophone as well. 17:56 He is kind of the Serbian version of Kenny G. 17:59 He is a popular musician. He is not a Christian artist. 18:03 And while he was on tour in Australia 18:06 he had a friend there who was Adventist 18:10 and had a conversion experience, 18:11 quite a dramatic conversion experience 18:14 and he's now started a small group in his home. 18:17 Oh, very good. 18:19 And so we visited with his small group 18:21 and I think he has about 10 to 12 people 18:25 meeting with him once a week 18:26 and people who may not just walk 18:30 ordinarily into a Adventist church. 18:32 And so that was very exciting to see. 18:35 Because as you know in Europe 18:37 there is a lot of secularism. Oh, yes. 18:39 And Macedonia is be course becoming secular as well and-- 18:47 so its really great to see that kind of church planting. 18:49 So they are meeting in his home? 18:51 In his apartment, yeah. 18:52 Because many of these people who come from the secular 18:56 or postmodern background 18:58 will not walk into the four walls 19:00 of the church building but they will come 19:02 to somebody's home though. Right. 19:04 Okay, so Macedonia then from there 19:06 we go not too far away to Serbia part of the former Yugoslavia. 19:10 Now Serbia of course not so long ago 19:13 was in the middle of a civil war. 19:15 How are things there now? 19:17 Absolutely, and in the capital there are still damage. 19:21 You can still see damaged buildings. Absolutely. 19:25 Well, Serbia in the northern part 19:28 which we visited the northern and the southern part. 19:30 In the northern part its part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, 19:34 very different than the southern part. 19:36 They have held very much on to their Hungarian roots. 19:40 For many people their first tongue 19:42 is Hungarian not Serbian. 19:46 There we met a flouriest actually. 19:51 He had a job, regular job and lost it in 2005 19:57 and decided he was gonna plant flowers 20:02 professionally and grow them. 20:03 And this is really giving him an opportunity 20:06 to do more church work and he has actually planted 20:11 two different churches in the area 20:15 and he says its the happiest he's ever been. 20:19 So how does his flower work tying with his church planting? 20:24 It gives him time now. Oh, I see. 20:26 Instead of having a 9 to 5 job he can-- 20:30 he can work his gardening work 20:34 around his church planting schedule. 20:36 And also when he goes to sell his flowers in the marketplace 20:39 because they have an open market there 20:41 that's where he sells stuff. 20:43 He can meet people where they are 20:45 and rather than knocking on doors 20:47 as traditionally done by many Global Mission Pioneers. 20:50 He is able to meet people on the street, 20:52 start conversations 20:54 and invite them to meet with him for small groups. 20:58 So he has a small group meeting in his home too? 21:03 In the community, I'm not exactly sure 21:04 if its in his home or if its in a rented space 21:07 but in the community, yeah. 21:09 So Hans, how is the church in Serbia doing now? 21:15 I mean, the war is finished, they are focused on mission. 21:19 How would you describe the situation? 21:21 Well, in the capital city 21:23 where there is actually a seminary 21:24 the work is fairly established. 21:28 But in the outside of the main city 21:32 it's definitely a harder situation. 21:35 People are not necessarily open to Adventism. 21:38 They view it is a western religion and Serbia, 21:41 you know, it's kind of on the French of east. 21:45 And--so if there are not necessarily open 21:50 but through meeting people 21:52 where they live it's growing in certain areas. 21:56 In other areas like in the south 21:58 there is virtually no Adventist presence 22:02 and so people are using some very creative ways. 22:04 We met with a pastor who started a church by going 22:10 and to a sweet shop and meeting people 22:14 in the evening in the town square 22:16 where the sweet shop was 22:17 and actually started preaching right there 22:21 and people were just 22:22 while there eating their desserts 22:24 listen to the sermon. 22:26 And he actually started a church in the storefront 22:28 and within one year 22:30 he went from the storefront area to have 22:33 put a closed camera system 22:36 into the store room so overflow area. 22:40 So there is a lot of success 22:41 but it's--they're having to be very creative. 22:45 So the leaders there are they discouraged 22:49 with how hard it is? 22:51 I mean, what sort of sense did you get? 22:53 I thought they were-- they are up beating. 22:55 That they understand they have to be creative 22:57 and so they, they keep working on 23:00 even though it's difficult they do keep working. 23:04 Also it's very unique country. 23:05 It's also very agrarian, 23:08 you know, lots of farms and such. 23:10 And so can be very long distances 23:13 for people to go to a church and the mission can't afford 23:18 to buy church buildings all over the place. 23:21 So we did a church that was started 23:24 by some church members lived in that community. 23:27 They were driving an hour to the nearest church 23:30 and so they actually built their own church. 23:33 And the pastor comes as often as he can 23:36 but it's mostly run by local church members. 23:41 But they didn't have a lot of money 23:42 so they actually went in to the community 23:43 and actually convinced community people to build pews, 23:47 the pulpit and various pieces and they were very willing. 23:50 So people are open to helping the Adventist church 23:53 but they may not want to just become an Adventist 23:56 unless they know someone who is already Adventist. 23:59 Hans, thanks very much for giving us 24:01 an inside into what's happening 24:02 in those territories, appreciate it. 24:04 Viewers at home, it's a tremendous challenge 24:07 in part of Europe that are becoming 24:10 more and more secular. 24:11 People don't come from a religious background. 24:14 How do meet people, how do we touch some God's love? 24:19 We keep coming back to the example of Jesus Christ 24:21 who are known what describes 24:22 as mingling with people, showing sympathy with them, 24:27 ministering to needs, winning confidence 24:29 and then bidding them to follow Jesus. 24:32 And this can be a long process. 24:33 It's not an overnight process. 24:35 So please pray for our church planters around the world. 24:38 And let's go and let's see the church planter in Serbia. 24:47 Northern Serbia, the crossroads of central 24:50 and South-Eastern Europe is a region of Europe 24:53 that is filled with farm lands and historic villages. 24:57 Driving through the regions bustling towns 24:59 it's hard to imagine that within the last decade 25:02 this country was home to the last war in Europe. 25:05 The declining Adventist membership 25:07 and reports that 65% of young adults 25:10 want to leave Serbia is a real challenge to mission. 25:15 But there is hope in the rich soil of northern Serbia, 25:18 the agricultural hub of the country. 25:21 Here farmers grow everything 25:23 from wheat and corn to flowers. 25:28 Joseph is one of those farmers but he doesn't just grow plants. 25:33 Joseph of a member of an established 25:35 Adventist church near Cantavir 25:37 when he lost his job in 2005. 25:40 He'd grown flowers near his house for years. 25:42 Felt the call to grow flowers fulltime. 25:45 Running a own business can be hard 25:48 but can also let you set your own hours at work. 25:51 Joseph had longed to do more for his church 25:54 and suddenly he felt he had the time. 25:59 I decided to start a church plant in Tornesch 26:03 just seven kilometers outside of Cantavir in 2008. 26:07 There was only one Adventist in this town. 26:10 There are many similarities 26:11 between growing flowers and growing churches. 26:15 Both require a lot of time and dedication to see growth 26:19 otherwise you'll not see results. 26:23 Like planting flowers where you take trimmings 26:25 or seeds from one plant to start another 26:28 Joseph used the church plant in Tornesch 26:30 to sprout another church in the fertile soil or Orahovo. 26:34 His new church is already flowering 26:36 and three people were baptized last year. 26:39 Joseph hopes that more people will decide to be baptized soon. 26:46 I'm humble by what the Holy Spirit has done. 26:49 There is no way that I could have accomplished this 26:52 on my own. 26:56 This is just one example of the mini Adventist 26:59 around the world who are telling their world 27:02 about their best friend Jesus Christ 27:05 and who are helping start new churches in new areas. 27:09 Thank you for your support of Adventist Mission. 27:16 At Adventist Mission we want to help our children 27:18 learn about the mission 27:20 and international work of our church. 27:22 So we've created a resource 27:24 we called Mission Cards for Kids. 27:26 If you live in North America 27:28 and would like to see a sample set of these cards 27:31 just call or visit our website 27:33 and ask for Mission Cards for Kids 27:35 or offer number 302. 27:37 Don't forget to clearly state your name, 27:40 mailing address and be sure to mention 27:42 Mission Cards for Kids or offer 302. 27:47 Well, that's it for today's program 27:48 and thanks so much for spending time with us today. 27:51 I hope you've been inspired by what you've seen and heard 27:55 and thank you for your continuing prayers 27:57 and support for Global Mission around the world. 28:01 For Global Mission I'm Gary Krause 28:03 and I hope you can join us next time 28:05 right here on Global Mission Snapshots. |
Revised 2014-12-17