Have you ever started
talking about your faith
00:00:01.06\00:00:02.99
with the complete stranger?
00:00:03.02\00:00:04.97
We meet people every day
00:00:05.00\00:00:06.56
and once in a while a door opens
00:00:06.59\00:00:08.88
to talk about what we believe.
00:00:08.91\00:00:11.22
It can be on a
plane, a train, a bus
00:00:11.25\00:00:14.60
or waiting in
line or may be online.
00:00:14.63\00:00:17.63
How do we know what to do?
00:00:17.66\00:00:18.89
How do we know what to say?
00:00:18.92\00:00:20.80
How can we make God real
00:00:20.83\00:00:23.18
and relevant to
people in today's world.
00:00:23.21\00:00:25.98
Well, stay tune to learn more
00:00:26.01\00:00:28.19
on "Global Mission Snapshots."
00:00:28.22\00:00:29.89
Just before He
went up to heaven,
00:00:33.79\00:00:36.24
Jesus gave us a command.
00:00:36.27\00:00:39.14
He gave us a mission.
00:00:39.17\00:00:41.88
Jesus said, go.
00:00:41.91\00:00:44.43
Go unto all the world,
telling them of His love.
00:00:44.46\00:00:49.31
This is our mission.
This is our "Global Mission."
00:00:49.34\00:00:53.25
Hello and welcome to
Global Mission Snapshots.
00:00:58.46\00:01:00.99
I'm Gary Krause.
00:01:01.02\00:01:02.64
Today we'll be
talking about church planting
00:01:02.67\00:01:04.99
in the European
country of Serbia.
00:01:05.02\00:01:07.72
We'll also talk with Ty
Gibson from Light Bearers,
00:01:07.75\00:01:10.79
who has been
creating a series of thought
00:01:10.82\00:01:12.78
provoking online videos
00:01:12.81\00:01:15.09
aimed at not church
people but at nonbelievers.
00:01:15.12\00:01:18.64
And we'll find out
what's behind these videos,
00:01:18.67\00:01:20.99
where you can find them
00:01:21.02\00:01:22.56
and how you
maybe able to use them.
00:01:22.59\00:01:25.01
But first let's
watch one of these videos
00:01:25.04\00:01:27.72
called "Atheist Too."
00:01:27.75\00:01:32.64
Not too long ago,
00:01:32.67\00:01:33.99
I had a super
interesting encounter
00:01:34.02\00:01:36.12
on a flight out of Denver.
00:01:36.15\00:01:37.99
As I took my
seat and began reading
00:01:38.02\00:01:40.46
whatever book I
happened to have with me,
00:01:40.49\00:01:42.75
it became obvious that
the guy sitting next to me
00:01:42.78\00:01:45.58
was looking over my shoulder
00:01:45.61\00:01:47.17
and catching a few
glances of whatever it was.
00:01:47.20\00:01:50.56
He must have saw the word God
or some religious terminology
00:01:50.59\00:01:53.38
because rather
casually the guy leaned over
00:01:53.41\00:01:56.33
and he says looks
like interesting book.
00:01:56.36\00:01:58.75
But then after a short pause,
00:01:58.78\00:02:00.68
just bluntly out of nowhere
00:02:00.71\00:02:02.15
the guy says,
"But I'm an atheist."
00:02:02.18\00:02:04.82
Evidently he was an outgoing guy
00:02:04.85\00:02:07.32
and looking for
some conversation
00:02:07.35\00:02:08.95
and so I said,
"Actually, I'm an atheist too."
00:02:08.98\00:02:12.36
Clearly he was little surprised,
00:02:12.39\00:02:14.05
no doubt because
the book I was reading.
00:02:14.08\00:02:16.33
He was like,
seriously, you're an atheist.
00:02:16.36\00:02:18.98
Yeah, absolutely, I told him.
00:02:19.01\00:02:21.81
Then I threw him an
unexpected curve ball.
00:02:21.84\00:02:24.28
I said, describe for me
the God you don't believe in.
00:02:24.31\00:02:28.90
he was jolted to say
the least by the question.
00:02:28.93\00:02:32.65
But I knew that there was some
00:02:32.68\00:02:34.90
definable picture
of God in his head
00:02:34.93\00:02:37.79
that gave rise to his atheism.
00:02:37.82\00:02:40.80
But he went silent, so I
figured conversation over.
00:02:40.83\00:02:44.48
But then after
thinking for a moment or two,
00:02:47.09\00:02:50.17
the guy opens the
conversation again
00:02:50.20\00:02:52.32
and he says, you
know, what I mean,
00:02:52.35\00:02:53.96
a super powerful supreme being
00:02:53.99\00:02:56.89
presiding somewhere in the sky
00:02:56.92\00:02:58.44
that rules over us
with absolute control.
00:02:58.47\00:03:02.34
He paused again and then
he just plowed forward man,
00:03:02.37\00:03:06.10
he just let it all out.
00:03:06.13\00:03:07.83
You know, before we were born,
00:03:07.86\00:03:09.16
this God decides who
gets to go to heaven,
00:03:09.19\00:03:11.65
who is going to
burn in hell forever.
00:03:11.68\00:03:13.68
Of course we've no
saying in the matter,
00:03:13.71\00:03:15.14
because he is
mister almighty God.
00:03:15.17\00:03:17.17
It's his universe, so how
dare anybody question him.
00:03:17.20\00:03:21.42
He can do whatever,
he jolly well pleases.
00:03:21.45\00:03:24.78
Well, he was on a
roll now doing a great job
00:03:27.74\00:03:31.02
of defining his
atheism and mine too.
00:03:31.05\00:03:35.09
It's all utter
nonsense he went on.
00:03:35.12\00:03:38.06
And we're supposed
to love this tyrant.
00:03:38.09\00:03:40.84
I don't even like him
and I'm pretty sure that
00:03:40.87\00:03:43.05
liking someone has got
to come before loving them.
00:03:43.08\00:03:47.07
He's more like a
monster than a God.
00:03:47.10\00:03:50.53
I was right with this
guy, I have to tell you,
00:03:50.56\00:03:53.40
just right with him.
Yeah, I totally agree, I said.
00:03:53.43\00:03:59.13
It's a pretty
diabolical picture, ah.
00:03:59.16\00:04:01.84
Yeah, he said.
00:04:01.87\00:04:03.24
I don't know how anyone
can believe in such a God.
00:04:03.27\00:04:07.77
Me neither I
agreed. I certainly don't.
00:04:07.80\00:04:11.42
I don't believe in the existence
00:04:11.45\00:04:13.50
of any such God as
you just described,
00:04:13.53\00:04:17.53
but I want to ask
you another question.
00:04:17.56\00:04:22.53
I mean, hypothetically
just for the sake of discussion.
00:04:22.56\00:04:26.73
What if a God the exact opposite
00:04:26.76\00:04:30.06
of the one you've
just described could exist?
00:04:30.09\00:04:33.77
Would you want him to?
00:04:33.80\00:04:38.08
He was jolted again
just thinking about the idea.
00:04:38.11\00:04:42.12
What do you mean, he says?
00:04:42.15\00:04:43.37
Like what?
00:04:43.40\00:04:44.92
So I offered a
totally different picture.
00:04:44.95\00:04:47.88
Well, what if a God could exist
00:04:47.91\00:04:50.74
who was nothing
but total goodness,
00:04:50.77\00:04:53.00
perfectly just,
perfectly merciful
00:04:53.03\00:04:56.07
to everyone all the time.
00:04:56.10\00:04:58.03
A God who always
does the right thing
00:04:58.06\00:05:01.01
toward every person.
00:05:01.04\00:05:03.41
A God who would
literally give everybody
00:05:03.44\00:05:07.25
total freedom to
decide their own destiny
00:05:07.28\00:05:09.62
and never in a
million years torture
00:05:09.65\00:05:12.37
anybody who
didn't agree with him.
00:05:12.40\00:05:16.97
What if a God could exist,
00:05:17.00\00:05:18.70
who is literally
the kind of person
00:05:18.73\00:05:21.45
who would rather die than commit
00:05:21.48\00:05:24.11
and injustice
against any person.
00:05:24.14\00:05:26.94
I mean, if a God
like that could exist.
00:05:26.97\00:05:29.96
Would you want him to?
00:05:29.99\00:05:31.86
I could see that this was
totally new territory for him.
00:05:31.89\00:05:35.41
But after thinking
for just a few seconds,
00:05:35.44\00:05:38.99
he said what any rational
person would have to say.
00:05:39.02\00:05:42.61
Well, sure he said,
I'd be fool not to, right.
00:05:42.64\00:05:46.29
Yeah, right. I agreed with him.
00:05:46.32\00:05:50.45
Then he said, but, no way, man,
00:05:50.48\00:05:52.36
we can't just
manufacture whatever God we want
00:05:52.39\00:05:56.45
and I agreed with him again.
00:05:56.48\00:05:57.91
No, we can't manufacture
whatever God we want.
00:05:57.94\00:06:02.23
But he was
listening, so I elaborated.
00:06:02.26\00:06:05.24
Listen, man, I totally
resonate with your atheism,
00:06:05.27\00:06:09.65
because I find many of
the popular views of God
00:06:09.68\00:06:12.46
is repulsive as you do.
00:06:12.49\00:06:14.78
But I believe that the one
00:06:14.81\00:06:17.16
and only true God is
beautiful in the extreme.
00:06:17.19\00:06:21.69
And you've said
that you would want that
00:06:21.72\00:06:24.33
kind of God to
exist if he could.
00:06:24.36\00:06:26.68
Well, I simply do
believe the very thing
00:06:26.71\00:06:29.92
that you want to believe.
00:06:29.95\00:06:32.51
So you're not really
atheist he says to me.
00:06:32.54\00:06:36.37
Well, actually I am.
00:06:36.40\00:06:38.02
I am an atheist in the sense
00:06:38.05\00:06:39.39
that I don't believe in
the cruel tyrannical God
00:06:39.42\00:06:42.34
you just described,
but I do believe in God.
00:06:42.37\00:06:45.78
But I believe in a God
who is nothing like the God
00:06:45.81\00:06:49.16
you don't believe in it.
00:06:49.19\00:06:51.75
So as far as I can see
you haven't rejected my God,
00:06:51.78\00:06:55.07
because the fact is,
00:06:55.10\00:06:56.46
you've never
even considered him.
00:06:56.49\00:06:58.84
I'm asking you to
believe in a God of sheer beauty
00:06:58.87\00:07:02.34
and perfect goodness.
00:07:02.37\00:07:04.63
And I totally commend you
00:07:04.66\00:07:07.03
for not
believing in the false God
00:07:07.06\00:07:09.09
that you were
raised to believe in.
00:07:09.12\00:07:11.60
I mean, this guys
mental wheels were turning.
00:07:11.63\00:07:15.13
And you know why?
00:07:15.16\00:07:16.62
I found that many
people who don't believe in God
00:07:16.65\00:07:19.84
don't believe in a
particular picture of God,
00:07:19.87\00:07:22.93
a self serving,
threatening tyrant
00:07:22.96\00:07:26.10
who wants to either
control us or damn us.
00:07:26.13\00:07:29.78
They reject the only
option they've ever been taught.
00:07:29.81\00:07:34.09
While somewhere in their hearts,
00:07:34.12\00:07:36.19
their desire of God worthy
of their love and worship.
00:07:36.22\00:07:41.42
I mean, what if?
00:07:41.45\00:07:44.56
What if the God who does exist
00:07:44.59\00:07:47.69
is nothing at all,
00:07:47.72\00:07:49.77
like many popular
religions portray God to be?
00:07:49.80\00:07:52.95
What if God is
love in the strongest,
00:07:52.98\00:07:57.31
in most
beautiful sense imaginable.
00:07:57.34\00:08:01.96
What if?
00:08:01.99\00:08:05.85
It's my pleasure to welcome
Ty Gibson to the program.
00:08:05.88\00:08:09.46
Ty, terrific video.
00:08:09.49\00:08:12.01
Where did the idea
for digma come from?
00:08:12.04\00:08:14.64
Well, first of all
just the word digma, Gary,
00:08:14.67\00:08:17.56
it's the second half
of the word paradigma
00:08:17.59\00:08:20.79
from which we get the
English word paradigm.
00:08:20.82\00:08:23.49
And that part of the word digma
00:08:23.52\00:08:25.16
just means to reveal something
00:08:25.19\00:08:26.71
or to disclose something
00:08:26.74\00:08:28.67
by way of a
story, your metaphor.
00:08:28.70\00:08:30.92
And so the idea
came that it would be
00:08:30.95\00:08:32.94
great to produce
some short videos,
00:08:32.97\00:08:35.23
not long
videos, not like sermons
00:08:35.26\00:08:36.91
30, 40, 50, 60 minutes
00:08:36.94\00:08:38.47
but just short
videos 5 to 7 minutes long
00:08:38.50\00:08:41.69
that would
disclose or reveal key ideas
00:08:41.72\00:08:46.14
about the existence of
God and the character of God.
00:08:46.17\00:08:48.94
So we started
producing the videos
00:08:48.97\00:08:50.90
for the general population,
00:08:50.93\00:08:53.05
people who don't really
know, does God exist or not.
00:08:53.08\00:08:55.81
If he does, what
kind of person is he?
00:08:55.84\00:08:57.88
Fantastic and it's done
in a style that will appeal,
00:08:57.91\00:09:01.74
maybe not to the traditional
church person in the pew,
00:09:01.77\00:09:04.86
although I've
enjoyed them very much,
00:09:04.89\00:09:06.18
but aimed at people who
are used to high quality video.
00:09:06.21\00:09:09.27
Oh, good, good, I'm
glad you've enjoyed them.
00:09:09.30\00:09:11.60
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:11.63\00:09:13.28
The response has
been overwhelming.
00:09:13.31\00:09:15.62
We've had a number
of academy teachers
00:09:15.65\00:09:18.78
who are showing
them in their classroom
00:09:18.81\00:09:20.93
and having the
kids write book reports.
00:09:20.96\00:09:22.63
We've had people from
secular university say,
00:09:22.66\00:09:27.18
"Hey, can we just
circulate these on campus."
00:09:27.21\00:09:30.60
And we said,
"Sure, please, please do."
00:09:30.63\00:09:32.98
So the thing that's
unique about these videos,
00:09:33.01\00:09:35.68
Gary, is number
one, you don't feel like
00:09:35.71\00:09:38.28
you're being preached to.
00:09:38.31\00:09:39.46
Because they are aiming
00:09:39.49\00:09:40.52
for a particular kind of person.
00:09:40.55\00:09:42.13
Actually the kind of
person I was, as I grew up.
00:09:42.16\00:09:45.26
I wasn't raised
in any kind of church
00:09:45.29\00:09:47.57
or religion whatsoever.
00:09:47.60\00:09:49.95
And these videos are
aiming to speak to people
00:09:49.98\00:09:53.45
who just aren't certain
about anything spiritual,
00:09:53.48\00:09:57.17
maybe, maybe not,
00:09:57.20\00:09:58.45
God could exist,
may he doesn't exist.
00:09:58.48\00:10:01.18
Not people who are militant
against the existence of God,
00:10:01.21\00:10:04.85
but people who just aren't sure.
00:10:04.88\00:10:06.84
And so it's not preachy.
00:10:06.87\00:10:08.26
There is no Bible in my hand,
00:10:08.29\00:10:09.54
although of
course I use certain,
00:10:09.57\00:10:11.30
you know, Bible verses
to make certain points.
00:10:11.33\00:10:13.96
There is no pulpit.
00:10:13.99\00:10:15.11
It's telling stories in such
a way as to convey answers to,
00:10:15.14\00:10:20.99
I guess you
would say the intuitive
00:10:21.02\00:10:22.99
kinds of questions people ask.
00:10:23.02\00:10:24.80
Like, like, okay,
if God does exist,
00:10:24.83\00:10:28.09
why is there so much
suffering in the world. Right.
00:10:28.12\00:10:29.74
That's a key question
and people are asking it.
00:10:29.77\00:10:31.74
I grew up asking it.
00:10:31.77\00:10:33.23
Yeah, now how many
of you done so far?
00:10:33.26\00:10:35.65
Right now on the
website at digma.com
00:10:35.68\00:10:37.78
there are seven
that are finished
00:10:37.81\00:10:40.20
and ready to be used
00:10:40.23\00:10:42.20
and people can use
them anyway they like.
00:10:42.23\00:10:44.33
They can email them to people
00:10:44.36\00:10:45.95
free of choice to
stimulate conversations,
00:10:45.98\00:10:47.92
that's a really
good use for them.
00:10:47.95\00:10:50.52
But seven are there
now we have I think,
00:10:50.55\00:10:52.96
five more right now
that are in postproduction.
00:10:52.99\00:10:56.04
That means I've
already written the scripts
00:10:56.07\00:10:57.57
and delivered the information
00:10:57.60\00:10:59.35
and now we are in
the postproduction phase
00:10:59.38\00:11:02.01
to just, you know, put
the music and the B roll
00:11:02.04\00:11:04.93
and all that kind of
stuff to finish it up.
00:11:04.96\00:11:08.02
And then we are going
to do an additional number
00:11:08.05\00:11:10.38
that will add up to
24 total in the end.
00:11:10.41\00:11:14.50
Now when I traditionally
think of Light Bearers
00:11:14.53\00:11:16.95
I'm thinking of literature
00:11:16.98\00:11:19.54
but so what made you
want to branch out to this.
00:11:19.57\00:11:22.85
I mean, what was the motivation?
00:11:22.88\00:11:25.10
Well, we live in
a world right now
00:11:25.13\00:11:26.93
that is super oriented
toward visual information.
00:11:26.96\00:11:32.51
People are getting information
00:11:32.54\00:11:33.87
more and more by
watching short little videos.
00:11:33.90\00:11:36.98
I have to say that for
myself even--even news.
00:11:37.01\00:11:40.70
I just get
little sound bites now
00:11:40.73\00:11:43.15
through twitter
and on my computer.
00:11:43.18\00:11:45.76
There is just a
growing population
00:11:45.79\00:11:47.53
especially
people in their teens,
00:11:47.56\00:11:49.41
their 20s and their 30s
who are accessing information
00:11:49.44\00:11:53.53
through short video clips.
00:11:53.56\00:11:55.68
And so we though wow,
there is an audience out there,
00:11:55.71\00:11:58.09
there are people who
are accessing information
00:11:58.12\00:12:01.09
through this medium
why not preach the gospel
00:12:01.12\00:12:04.49
or share the truths that we
hold here with that audience.
00:12:04.52\00:12:09.12
So we said, yeah,
let's do it. Let's try it.
00:12:09.15\00:12:11.96
So why come at the--
00:12:11.99\00:12:13.61
like the story
telling angle et cetera.
00:12:13.64\00:12:15.38
Why not just do 28 videos
telling the fundamentals videos.
00:12:15.41\00:12:19.71
This is a really good
question and people ask--
00:12:19.74\00:12:21.87
ask about this often, Gary.
00:12:21.90\00:12:24.08
I remember a verse in the
Gospel of Matthew for example.
00:12:24.11\00:12:26.88
It's a very, very
straight forward verse
00:12:26.91\00:12:28.92
that jolted me at first.
00:12:28.95\00:12:31.06
It said, Jesus--
speaking of Jesus it said,
00:12:31.09\00:12:34.69
He said nothing to them
without using a parable.
00:12:34.72\00:12:37.96
Now parables are
story with a point.
00:12:37.99\00:12:40.08
So I thought well, why does
Jesus use parables so often?
00:12:40.11\00:12:43.92
Why is this the chief
medium of His communication?
00:12:43.95\00:12:47.34
Well, I've discovered
over the years in preaching
00:12:47.37\00:12:50.30
and now in this medium
that a story can deposit an idea
00:12:50.33\00:12:56.53
a truth in people's heart
almost through the back door.
00:12:56.56\00:12:59.08
They don't
even-- they are thinking
00:12:59.11\00:13:00.28
oh, that story is very
interesting and then, wow.
00:13:00.31\00:13:03.47
Something dawns on them.
00:13:03.50\00:13:04.62
They think, I never thought
of it from that angle before.
00:13:04.65\00:13:08.35
That's the power of story.
00:13:08.38\00:13:09.82
Story has the
power to convey truth
00:13:09.85\00:13:13.74
in a way that
reaches not only the mind,
00:13:13.77\00:13:16.05
the intellect which is important
00:13:16.08\00:13:17.41
but also the heart.
00:13:17.44\00:13:18.49
So it reaches into the
heart in a significant way.
00:13:18.52\00:13:20.71
So that's why we
are using stories.
00:13:20.74\00:13:22.27
Number one, because
Jesus is the greatest teacher
00:13:22.30\00:13:25.42
that ever lived and He found
stories to be very effective.
00:13:25.45\00:13:29.17
And also just because
people remember the point
00:13:29.20\00:13:33.02
and it reaches into
the emotional region
00:13:33.05\00:13:35.86
of their being
rather than merely saying,
00:13:35.89\00:13:37.50
you know, here are the
facts in propositional style
00:13:37.53\00:13:40.15
and therefore
you opt to believe it
00:13:40.18\00:13:42.02
rather here is a story
that you will find intuitive--
00:13:42.05\00:13:47.22
you will agree with it almost
without even thinking about it
00:13:47.25\00:13:50.26
and then it will dawn on you.
00:13:50.29\00:13:51.39
Oh, hey, I just realized
that there are good reasons
00:13:51.42\00:13:54.61
to believe that God
exists and that He is good.
00:13:54.64\00:13:57.58
So that's the angle that
we are coming at it from.
00:13:57.61\00:14:00.77
It was good enough for Jesus.
That's right. That's right.
00:14:00.80\00:14:04.11
And of course part of the,
00:14:04.14\00:14:06.41
the postmodern populations
they are attracted to stories.
00:14:06.44\00:14:11.05
They are not attracted
to traditional preaching.
00:14:11.08\00:14:13.60
That's right. That's right.
00:14:13.63\00:14:14.68
And not only that
the genius of this videos
00:14:14.71\00:14:17.79
one of the things
00:14:17.82\00:14:18.85
that's great about it
Gary, is there are short.
00:14:18.88\00:14:20.72
Not only is the
postmodern population
00:14:20.75\00:14:23.21
not a custom to
preaching as a style.
00:14:23.24\00:14:25.68
They are not a custom
really just sitting down
00:14:25.71\00:14:27.34
and listening to a monologue
or somebody just talked to them
00:14:27.37\00:14:30.92
for an hour
straight of information.
00:14:30.95\00:14:35.24
This is a way of
communicating with people
00:14:35.27\00:14:37.84
that's where they are at
00:14:37.87\00:14:39.46
but we are not
watering it down at all
00:14:39.49\00:14:41.76
in the sense of just
telling cute stories.
00:14:41.79\00:14:44.51
These scripts are
written very precisely
00:14:44.54\00:14:47.11
in order to convey a
large amount of information
00:14:47.14\00:14:51.04
in a very short space of time.
00:14:51.07\00:14:52.56
I would encourage
people to check them out.
00:14:52.59\00:14:54.55
The thing that's great
about them is they are short.
00:14:54.58\00:14:57.45
So you watch one and
it's not dealing with,
00:14:57.48\00:15:00.21
you know, 10 different points.
It's dealing with one point.
00:15:00.24\00:15:02.35
Does God exist
are there good reasons
00:15:02.38\00:15:04.28
to believe that He does
00:15:04.31\00:15:05.95
or for example if God does
exist why is there suffering.
00:15:05.98\00:15:09.30
I mentioned to that one.
00:15:09.33\00:15:10.57
So in a short space of time
00:15:10.60\00:15:13.05
you get the answer
to those vital questions
00:15:13.08\00:15:15.32
and you don't have
to take a lot of time
00:15:15.35\00:15:17.66
to come to that
conclusion. Fantastic, Ty.
00:15:17.69\00:15:20.60
Thank you so
much for joining us.
00:15:20.63\00:15:22.46
Viewers at home, make
sure that you go to digma.com.
00:15:22.49\00:15:27.65
It's a ministry of Light Bearers
00:15:27.68\00:15:29.92
and it is something that perhaps
00:15:29.95\00:15:31.52
you might find useful in sharing
00:15:31.55\00:15:33.10
with a neighbor, with a friend.
00:15:33.13\00:15:35.11
You can email
them, you can download it
00:15:35.14\00:15:37.07
you can show them.
00:15:37.10\00:15:38.40
Good conversation to start
is to open up people's minds
00:15:38.43\00:15:41.53
and their hearts to even
think about spiritual things.
00:15:41.56\00:15:44.76
And please pray for Ty,
pray for Light Bearers Ministry.
00:15:44.79\00:15:48.05
Welcome back.
00:16:56.57\00:16:57.74
My next guest is Hans Olson
00:16:57.77\00:16:59.32
who is a
communication projects manager
00:16:59.35\00:17:01.59
with the office
of Adventist Mission.
00:17:01.62\00:17:03.05
Glad you could join
us, Hans. Thank you, Gary.
00:17:03.08\00:17:05.43
Now, you know, sometimes
00:17:05.46\00:17:06.87
when we think
about the mission field
00:17:06.90\00:17:08.15
we are thinking about
Africa, Asia, et cetera
00:17:08.18\00:17:11.43
but we forget
about the big challenge
00:17:11.46\00:17:13.40
that we still have in
Europe, North America,
00:17:13.43\00:17:15.91
Australia, New Zealand.
00:17:15.94\00:17:18.02
Not so long ago
you visited Europe
00:17:18.05\00:17:20.34
and we want to talk
about two countries.
00:17:20.37\00:17:22.37
One of which is Macedonia
which we know from the Bible
00:17:22.40\00:17:26.27
come over to
Macedonia and help us.
00:17:26.30\00:17:28.62
I haven't been
there for many years.
00:17:28.65\00:17:30.01
When I was there,
there was a very strong
00:17:30.04\00:17:31.68
focus on church
planting in the capital city.
00:17:31.71\00:17:34.55
What did you find
when you visited there?
00:17:34.58\00:17:37.73
Well, in Macedonia we
visited with a lay person.
00:17:37.76\00:17:43.70
He actually is-- he is
a professional musician.
00:17:43.73\00:17:46.40
He is part of
three different groups.
00:17:46.43\00:17:48.73
He is a
primarily with woodwinds,
00:17:48.76\00:17:51.53
oboe and a clarinet.
00:17:51.56\00:17:54.14
And I believe saxophone as well.
00:17:54.17\00:17:56.47
He is kind of the
Serbian version of Kenny G.
00:17:56.50\00:17:59.85
He is a popular musician.
He is not a Christian artist.
00:17:59.88\00:18:03.00
And while he was
on tour in Australia
00:18:03.03\00:18:06.77
he had a friend
there who was Adventist
00:18:06.80\00:18:09.98
and had a conversion experience,
00:18:10.01\00:18:11.69
quite a dramatic
conversion experience
00:18:11.72\00:18:14.94
and he's now started a
small group in his home.
00:18:14.97\00:18:17.77
Oh, very good.
00:18:17.80\00:18:19.43
And so we visited
with his small group
00:18:19.46\00:18:21.81
and I think he has
about 10 to 12 people
00:18:21.84\00:18:25.25
meeting with him once a week
00:18:25.28\00:18:26.86
and people who may not just walk
00:18:26.89\00:18:30.44
ordinarily into
a Adventist church.
00:18:30.47\00:18:32.43
And so that was
very exciting to see.
00:18:32.46\00:18:35.75
Because as you know in Europe
00:18:35.78\00:18:37.07
there is a lot of
secularism. Oh, yes.
00:18:37.10\00:18:39.47
And Macedonia is be course
becoming secular as well and--
00:18:39.50\00:18:47.17
so its really great to see
that kind of church planting.
00:18:47.20\00:18:49.48
So they are meeting in his home?
00:18:49.51\00:18:51.75
In his apartment, yeah.
00:18:51.78\00:18:52.81
Because many of these
people who come from the secular
00:18:52.84\00:18:56.41
or postmodern background
00:18:56.44\00:18:58.46
will not walk
into the four walls
00:18:58.49\00:19:00.00
of the church
building but they will come
00:19:00.03\00:19:02.16
to somebody's
home though. Right.
00:19:02.19\00:19:03.97
Okay, so
Macedonia then from there
00:19:04.00\00:19:06.91
we go not too far away to Serbia
part of the former Yugoslavia.
00:19:06.94\00:19:10.50
Now Serbia of
course not so long ago
00:19:10.53\00:19:13.11
was in the
middle of a civil war.
00:19:13.14\00:19:15.61
How are things there now?
00:19:15.64\00:19:17.94
Absolutely, and in the
capital there are still damage.
00:19:17.97\00:19:21.93
You can still see
damaged buildings. Absolutely.
00:19:21.96\00:19:25.44
Well, Serbia in
the northern part
00:19:25.47\00:19:27.97
which we visited the
northern and the southern part.
00:19:28.00\00:19:30.39
In the northern part its part
of the Austro-Hungarian Empire,
00:19:30.42\00:19:34.24
very different
than the southern part.
00:19:34.27\00:19:36.61
They have held very much
on to their Hungarian roots.
00:19:36.64\00:19:40.40
For many people
their first tongue
00:19:40.43\00:19:42.33
is Hungarian not Serbian.
00:19:42.36\00:19:46.43
There we met a
flouriest actually.
00:19:46.46\00:19:51.37
He had a job, regular
job and lost it in 2005
00:19:51.40\00:19:57.93
and decided he was
gonna plant flowers
00:19:57.96\00:20:02.55
professionally and grow them.
00:20:02.58\00:20:03.76
And this is really
giving him an opportunity
00:20:03.79\00:20:06.43
to do more church work
and he has actually planted
00:20:06.46\00:20:11.95
two different
churches in the area
00:20:11.98\00:20:15.72
and he says its the
happiest he's ever been.
00:20:15.75\00:20:19.96
So how does his flower work
tying with his church planting?
00:20:19.99\00:20:24.81
It gives him
time now. Oh, I see.
00:20:24.84\00:20:26.40
Instead of having
a 9 to 5 job he can--
00:20:26.43\00:20:30.66
he can work his gardening work
00:20:30.69\00:20:34.03
around his church
planting schedule.
00:20:34.06\00:20:36.78
And also when he goes to sell
his flowers in the marketplace
00:20:36.81\00:20:39.63
because they have
an open market there
00:20:39.66\00:20:41.18
that's where he sells stuff.
00:20:41.21\00:20:43.16
He can meet
people where they are
00:20:43.19\00:20:45.91
and rather than
knocking on doors
00:20:45.94\00:20:47.45
as traditionally done by
many Global Mission Pioneers.
00:20:47.48\00:20:50.43
He is able to meet
people on the street,
00:20:50.46\00:20:52.82
start conversations
00:20:52.85\00:20:54.66
and invite them to meet
with him for small groups.
00:20:54.69\00:20:57.98
So he has a small group
meeting in his home too?
00:20:58.01\00:21:03.12
In the community,
I'm not exactly sure
00:21:03.15\00:21:04.83
if its in his home or
if its in a rented space
00:21:04.86\00:21:07.83
but in the community, yeah.
00:21:07.86\00:21:09.74
So Hans, how is the
church in Serbia doing now?
00:21:09.77\00:21:15.03
I mean, the war is finished,
they are focused on mission.
00:21:15.06\00:21:19.10
How would you
describe the situation?
00:21:19.13\00:21:21.24
Well, in the capital city
00:21:21.27\00:21:23.14
where there is
actually a seminary
00:21:23.17\00:21:24.55
the work is fairly established.
00:21:24.58\00:21:28.58
But in the
outside of the main city
00:21:28.61\00:21:32.53
it's definitely
a harder situation.
00:21:32.56\00:21:35.08
People are not
necessarily open to Adventism.
00:21:35.11\00:21:38.79
They view it is a
western religion and Serbia,
00:21:38.82\00:21:41.48
you know, it's kind
of on the French of east.
00:21:41.51\00:21:45.09
And--so if there
are not necessarily open
00:21:45.12\00:21:50.04
but through meeting people
00:21:50.07\00:21:52.89
where they live it's
growing in certain areas.
00:21:52.92\00:21:56.46
In other areas like in the south
00:21:56.49\00:21:58.70
there is virtually
no Adventist presence
00:21:58.73\00:22:02.11
and so people are using
some very creative ways.
00:22:02.14\00:22:04.55
We met with a pastor who
started a church by going
00:22:04.58\00:22:10.35
and to a sweet
shop and meeting people
00:22:10.38\00:22:14.26
in the evening
in the town square
00:22:14.29\00:22:15.98
where the sweet shop was
00:22:16.01\00:22:17.88
and actually started
preaching right there
00:22:17.91\00:22:21.26
and people were just
00:22:21.29\00:22:22.45
while there
eating their desserts
00:22:22.48\00:22:24.96
listen to the sermon.
00:22:24.99\00:22:26.03
And he actually started
a church in the storefront
00:22:26.06\00:22:28.54
and within one year
00:22:28.57\00:22:30.34
he went from the
storefront area to have
00:22:30.37\00:22:33.71
put a closed camera system
00:22:33.74\00:22:36.03
into the store
room so overflow area.
00:22:36.06\00:22:39.99
So there is a lot of success
00:22:40.02\00:22:41.74
but it's--they're
having to be very creative.
00:22:41.77\00:22:45.11
So the leaders
there are they discouraged
00:22:45.14\00:22:49.96
with how hard it is?
00:22:49.99\00:22:51.05
I mean, what sort
of sense did you get?
00:22:51.08\00:22:53.58
I thought they
were-- they are up beating.
00:22:53.61\00:22:55.14
That they understand
they have to be creative
00:22:55.17\00:22:57.47
and so they,
they keep working on
00:22:57.50\00:23:00.49
even though it's
difficult they do keep working.
00:23:00.52\00:23:04.09
Also it's very unique country.
00:23:04.12\00:23:05.76
It's also very agrarian,
00:23:05.79\00:23:08.13
you know, lots
of farms and such.
00:23:08.16\00:23:10.72
And so can be
very long distances
00:23:10.75\00:23:13.77
for people to go to a church
and the mission can't afford
00:23:13.80\00:23:18.63
to buy church
buildings all over the place.
00:23:18.66\00:23:21.85
So we did a
church that was started
00:23:21.88\00:23:24.62
by some church members
lived in that community.
00:23:24.65\00:23:27.59
They were driving an
hour to the nearest church
00:23:27.62\00:23:30.33
and so they actually
built their own church.
00:23:30.36\00:23:33.28
And the pastor
comes as often as he can
00:23:33.31\00:23:36.01
but it's mostly run
by local church members.
00:23:36.04\00:23:41.21
But they didn't
have a lot of money
00:23:41.24\00:23:42.40
so they actually
went in to the community
00:23:42.43\00:23:43.84
and actually convinced
community people to build pews,
00:23:43.87\00:23:47.21
the pulpit and various pieces
and they were very willing.
00:23:47.24\00:23:50.73
So people are open to
helping the Adventist church
00:23:50.76\00:23:53.95
but they may not want
to just become an Adventist
00:23:53.98\00:23:56.82
unless they know someone
who is already Adventist.
00:23:56.85\00:23:59.76
Hans, thanks very
much for giving us
00:23:59.79\00:24:01.34
an inside into what's happening
00:24:01.37\00:24:02.54
in those
territories, appreciate it.
00:24:02.57\00:24:04.93
Viewers at home, it's
a tremendous challenge
00:24:04.96\00:24:07.87
in part of
Europe that are becoming
00:24:07.90\00:24:10.31
more and more secular.
00:24:10.34\00:24:11.48
People don't come from
a religious background.
00:24:11.51\00:24:14.22
How do meet people, how
do we touch some God's love?
00:24:14.25\00:24:19.06
We keep coming back to
the example of Jesus Christ
00:24:19.09\00:24:21.50
who are known what describes
00:24:21.53\00:24:22.81
as mingling with people,
showing sympathy with them,
00:24:22.84\00:24:27.17
ministering to
needs, winning confidence
00:24:27.20\00:24:29.90
and then bidding
them to follow Jesus.
00:24:29.93\00:24:31.98
And this can be a long process.
00:24:32.01\00:24:33.23
It's not an overnight process.
00:24:33.26\00:24:35.20
So please pray for our church
planters around the world.
00:24:35.23\00:24:38.67
And let's go and let's see
the church planter in Serbia.
00:24:38.70\00:24:41.67
Northern Serbia, the
crossroads of central
00:24:47.87\00:24:50.79
and South-Eastern
Europe is a region of Europe
00:24:50.82\00:24:53.54
that is filled with farm
lands and historic villages.
00:24:53.57\00:24:57.23
Driving through the
regions bustling towns
00:24:57.26\00:24:59.53
it's hard to imagine
that within the last decade
00:24:59.56\00:25:02.62
this country was home
to the last war in Europe.
00:25:02.65\00:25:05.86
The declining
Adventist membership
00:25:05.89\00:25:07.56
and reports that
65% of young adults
00:25:07.59\00:25:10.01
want to leave Serbia is a
real challenge to mission.
00:25:10.04\00:25:15.45
But there is hope in the
rich soil of northern Serbia,
00:25:15.48\00:25:18.91
the agricultural
hub of the country.
00:25:18.94\00:25:21.68
Here farmers grow everything
00:25:21.71\00:25:23.02
from wheat and corn to flowers.
00:25:23.05\00:25:28.43
Joseph is one of those farmers
but he doesn't just grow plants.
00:25:28.46\00:25:33.34
Joseph of a
member of an established
00:25:33.37\00:25:35.56
Adventist church near Cantavir
00:25:35.59\00:25:37.58
when he lost his job in 2005.
00:25:37.61\00:25:40.64
He'd grown flowers
near his house for years.
00:25:40.67\00:25:42.92
Felt the call to
grow flowers fulltime.
00:25:42.95\00:25:45.84
Running a own
business can be hard
00:25:45.87\00:25:48.63
but can also let you
set your own hours at work.
00:25:48.66\00:25:51.96
Joseph had longed to
do more for his church
00:25:51.99\00:25:54.21
and suddenly he
felt he had the time.
00:25:54.24\00:25:59.92
I decided to start a
church plant in Tornesch
00:25:59.95\00:26:03.18
just seven kilometers
outside of Cantavir in 2008.
00:26:03.21\00:26:07.75
There was only one
Adventist in this town.
00:26:07.78\00:26:10.46
There are many similarities
00:26:10.49\00:26:11.70
between growing
flowers and growing churches.
00:26:11.73\00:26:15.10
Both require a lot of time
and dedication to see growth
00:26:15.13\00:26:19.62
otherwise
you'll not see results.
00:26:19.65\00:26:23.21
Like planting flowers
where you take trimmings
00:26:23.24\00:26:25.44
or seeds from one
plant to start another
00:26:25.47\00:26:28.30
Joseph used the
church plant in Tornesch
00:26:28.33\00:26:30.83
to sprout another church in
the fertile soil or Orahovo.
00:26:30.86\00:26:34.65
His new church
is already flowering
00:26:34.68\00:26:36.45
and three people
were baptized last year.
00:26:36.48\00:26:39.71
Joseph hopes that more people
will decide to be baptized soon.
00:26:39.74\00:26:46.73
I'm humble by what
the Holy Spirit has done.
00:26:46.76\00:26:49.90
There is no way that I
could have accomplished this
00:26:49.93\00:26:52.74
on my own.
00:26:52.77\00:26:56.87
This is just one
example of the mini Adventist
00:26:56.90\00:26:59.90
around the world who
are telling their world
00:26:59.93\00:27:02.42
about their best
friend Jesus Christ
00:27:02.45\00:27:05.34
and who are helping start
new churches in new areas.
00:27:05.37\00:27:09.76
Thank you for your
support of Adventist Mission.
00:27:09.79\00:27:16.27
At Adventist Mission we
want to help our children
00:27:16.30\00:27:18.58
learn about the mission
00:27:18.61\00:27:20.28
and international
work of our church.
00:27:20.31\00:27:22.55
So we've created a resource
00:27:22.58\00:27:24.00
we called
Mission Cards for Kids.
00:27:24.03\00:27:26.72
If you live in North America
00:27:26.75\00:27:28.03
and would like to see a
sample set of these cards
00:27:28.06\00:27:31.05
just call or visit our website
00:27:31.08\00:27:33.02
and ask for
Mission Cards for Kids
00:27:33.05\00:27:35.51
or offer number 302.
00:27:35.54\00:27:37.81
Don't forget to
clearly state your name,
00:27:37.84\00:27:40.34
mailing address
and be sure to mention
00:27:40.37\00:27:42.62
Mission Cards for
Kids or offer 302.
00:27:42.65\00:27:47.14
Well, that's it
for today's program
00:27:47.17\00:27:48.75
and thanks so much for
spending time with us today.
00:27:48.78\00:27:51.80
I hope you've been inspired
by what you've seen and heard
00:27:51.83\00:27:55.25
and thank you for
your continuing prayers
00:27:55.28\00:27:57.73
and support for Global
Mission around the world.
00:27:57.76\00:28:01.11
For Global
Mission I'm Gary Krause
00:28:01.14\00:28:03.10
and I hope you
can join us next time
00:28:03.13\00:28:05.10
right here on
Global Mission Snapshots.
00:28:05.13\00:28:07.77