¤ ¤ Subodh K. Pandit, M.D.
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Now we are back together again.
This time for Session 11. We are
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going to make a little change
in the gears another time.
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And that is because when I
looked over what we have done
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so far it seemed like every
factor was being pushed to one
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direction. Now whenever that
happens a good neutral inquirer
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will always question that and
he will say, Mmm, is it going in
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that direction, only in that
direction? Well then it has to
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be reviewed and so that's what
I did. I reviewed what we have
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done so far and then I made a
decision to look for something
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else. Now I would not be just
a neutral inquirer. I decided I
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would look for some other
factors. In fact this is what I
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wanted to do. Since one person
and one founder was always in
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front I decided to look at that
founder and his story and look
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for factors in which he would
not come out in front. So that's
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what I did. That's what
we will do in this session.
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Look for factors in which this
founder who was always coming
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out in front is now no longer
in front. Let's give the others
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also a chance. Now I looked for
three and found three and if he
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does not come out in front
do you know where he comes out?
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Last. So let's look at all three
Number one: The story of the
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birth and parentage. In Hinduism
multiple authors, no specific
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founder. And when you look
at their stories all the authors
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were revered individuals born
to honorable, well-liked, well
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known parents in the community.
So that birth story, good. How
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about Buddhism? Gautama Buddha
whose name was Siddhartha was a
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prince. His father, Suddhodana,
was a king, and his mother, Maya
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a queen. And he was born in
Lumbini Grove a delightful grove
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of wonderful trees and a nice
place. You know, as soon as he
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was born the whole clan, the
nation rejoiced because an heir
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had been born, a prince. So even
that story, very likable and
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honorable. How about Judaism?
"A man of the house of Levi went
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and took as wife a daughter of
Levi...[she]bore a son and she
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saw that he was a beautiful
child and her became her
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(Pharaoh's daughter's) son."
That is the story of Moses.
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Again look at the pedigree. The
tribe of Levi later on became
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the tribe that would take care
of their most prized possession,
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the tabernacle. So his pedigree
was good. Tribe of Levi.
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Further, he became Pharaoh's
daughter's son, into the royal
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palace. So the story that starts
him out is grand and big in this
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case. How about Islam? Muhammad
was the posthumous son of
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Abdullah and his
mother, Amina, they were of the
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tribe of Quraysh
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the clan of Hashim. One once
again the tribe of Quraysh was
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not the biggest and the
strongest but it was one of the
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most important because it was in
charge of the Ka'aba, the place
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where all the Muslims go to
worship and pay their respects.
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The Ka'aba is even today the
place where Hajj is taken. Hajj
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is pilgrimage where Muslims go
to perform their pilgrimage, the
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most sacred site of the Muslim
and the tribe of Quraysh was in
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in charge of that. And Muhammad
was born into the tribe of
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Quraysh. Pedigree again, good.
Story honorable and enjoyable.
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Christianity: Look at this.
At his birth he was wrapped in
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swaddling cloths and laid in
a manger. Swaddling cloths is
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not what we usually talk about
today. What is swaddling cloth?
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It's not soft and pretty. It is
really rough and coarse cloth.
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Swaddling cloth was not hung up
as a curtain or put on the bed
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as a sheet. It was used to
wipe tables and chairs and dust
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things. And another place where
it was used was when you're on
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a journey if you had to roll
out your mattress you would put
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swaddling cloth at the bottom
on the ground. That is where it
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was and then on top of that you
would place your mattress and
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then you'd sleep. The third
place where it was used was in
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strips to wind around dead
bodies. It was used as grave
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cloth. So could you imagine
swaddling cloth. It was not a
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very honorable, it was not a
very good picture; a baby child
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wrapped in swaddling cloth?
And where was this baby born?
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Most of humans today are born
in a hospital or at home. He was
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born in a stable, a place where
cattle are kept, animals. That
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is where he was born. Why was he
born there? Because there was no
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place that they found in the
hotel in the city that they had
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gone to. Furthermore, when we
read the story the parents were
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very poor. So the birth story
of Jesus is a picture of abject
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poverty and low life, a life
that was not really honorable in
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the sight of the community.
And worse: "After his mother was
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betrothed [or engaged] to Joseph
before they came together she
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was found with child." That
was stunning. Today it doesn't
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matter where you're born out
of wedlock or in wedlock. But in
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first century, ultraconservative
Palestine being conceived out of
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wedlock was not an honorable
thing at all. In fact, it dogged
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his days. His stain, the moral
culture of his life, was stained
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as was that of his parents.
In fact it stayed with him the
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whole life. When he was an adult
going to the temple the people
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in the temple, the priests
and the rabbis looked at him and
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said you? Are you going to come
and teach the people morals and
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ethics? You? We were not born of
fornication, that means out of
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wedlock. Illegitimate. We were
not that. Get out of here! We
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are the clean and the favored
of God. Not like you. How's that
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for a start in life. So Jesus is
the only founder to be born in
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abject poverty where animals are
born and quartered and worse,
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he's the only founder to be
conceived out of wedlock. You
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know, in Jewish genealogy what
they called him? The B-word. Yes
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you are B. We were not born of
fornication. His was the worst
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start in life. How about the
length of ministry? In Hinduism
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it was many generations. At the
end it was a highly organized
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society. Everyone knew their
place, their jobs. And today the
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population of
Hinduism is nearly one billion.
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In Buddhism: Gautama Buddha
began his ministry at the age of
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35 and he went on preaching
and scouring the landscape going
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from one town to another, one
province to another for a period
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of 45 years. He died at the
age of 80. Forty-five years of
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ministry, of teaching, of
preaching and then he was laid
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to rest. How about Judaism?
Moses led the children of Israel
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for 40 years from the age of 80
to the age of 120. That's a long
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time. And he changed that ragtag
group of slaves coming out of
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Egypt into a well organized
nation with armies, well-armed
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and well trained armies. And
today the population is tens of
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millions. Islam: Muhammad began
his ministry about 610 A.D. or
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C.E. (common era) and he met
his demise in 622. So that's a
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period of about 23 years during
which he gathered his people
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together, expounded on his
message and even got an army
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trained up so that he could
destroy the other tribes and get
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them together, form a combined
army that afterwards would form
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the mighty Ottoman Empire. But
the Ottoman Empire which came
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much later had its roots
back there in the 23 years of
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Muhammad's own life and effort.
When you come to Christianity
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three-and-a-half years.
That's a huge difference. So the
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question is why only three-and-
a- half years. Look at the
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difference. The Hindus had
generations. Buddhism 45 years.
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Moses 40 years. Muhammad
23 years. And Jesus, just
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three-and-a-half years.
That prompts a question. Why
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three-and-a-half years? Did he
have a debilitating illness, a
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sudden acute illness that
knocked him up, did he get into
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an accident. No what is
the reason for three-and-a-half
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years? The answer to that leads
to a very pathetic picture. It
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was only three-and-a-half years
because he was hated with a
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passion by his own community and
sentenced to death. That is why
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it was only three-and-a-half
years. So the picture of the
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length of ministry is not just
that it is short. It was short
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because of a horrible, a
horrible report. Hated by his
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own community. So here is a man
born in poverty and now has the
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shortest ministry of all
the founders. How is that for a
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start? To get a real movement
a movement that's moral in
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nature going. Hard. So that
placed him at the end of the
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tail of all the other founders.
Last by a long mile. And then
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circumstances at death. In
Hinduism the sages were honored
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and today they are held in high
respect. In fact, whenever one
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of the sages died, the whole
community would get together
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mourn the loss. Talk to each
other about how his life was so
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great and what contributions
he had made to the community and
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boy he is gone now. The feeling
of loss. Why? Because he was a
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respected member of the
community. And now when he is
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gone they would mourn, respect
him. More than even sometimes in
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his life. So at his death the
Hindu sages were honored. How
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Buddhism? Gautama Buddha
took his last journey to a place
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called Kusinara where he died.
On the journey, he fell ill.
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We're not sure why what caused
the illness but it might have
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probably mushroom poisoning.
At any rate he complained of
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abdominal pain, nausea and
vomiting and since he was 80
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years old he felt weak and he
told his disciples probably this
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is the end. Immediately all his
disciples gathered around him
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at his bed. They knew he was
ebbing away, his life was moving
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on and so they gathered round
trying to catch the last words
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of the beloved master. Then
he was gone, surrounded by his
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doting disciples. What the
disciples did was, again, show
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respect and honor. They wrapped
that body in 1000 layers of
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silk from a certain town.
In those days it was called
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Varanasi. Now Varanasi was
known for the weaving of silk.
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Today you see Indian ladies who
wear their sarees, it's about
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six or seven yards long.
The people in Varanasi, the
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weavers could weave such fine
silk that you could fold that
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whole six or seven yards of
cloth and put it into a small
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matchbox. The silk was that fine
and when you take that fine silk
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and wrap a body with 1000 layers
of that it means that you have
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shown that body the highest
respect and honor that you
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possibly could give. That is
the meaning of wrapping the body
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with 1000 layers of the Benares
or Varanasi silk. And then they
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would cremate the body. Again
a show of respect. When it comes
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to Islam Muhammad died suddenly.
It was not a big prolonged
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illness. But as soon as the word
got out that he died then the
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community immediately rushed
over and in fact the record says
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that, Umar who was one of
the leaders, he said: "I was
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dumbfounded...I fell to
the ground" at the news of
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Muhammad's death. And the people
when they heard they "hurried
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ashen-faced [in] to the
mosque." Why? Because their
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great leader had
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gone and they wanted to show
their respect, their admiration.
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Everywhere in that town could
be heard the women wailing. That
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was how they did it. They would
wail out and slap their cheeks
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and slap their bodies in a
time honored method of mourning.
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And the mourning was because
a great leader had gone. And
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that's the way all of these
leaders met their end. Honor.
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well respected and given to a
lot of talk after that. They got
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in how they had benefitted
the whole community. They were
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honored at their death. In
Judaism Moses was 120 years old
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when he died and the children
of Israel wept for Moses in the
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plains of Moab for 30 days. You
know today when presidents or
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leaders die in office the whole
nation mourns. We fly the flag
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at half-mast and we close
all the government offices, all
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schools. Businesses close.
Sometimes it's three days, five
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days, seven days. Again, a show
of respect. Here the children of
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Israel stayed put, everything at
a standstill for 30 days. Why 30
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days. Again, they wanted to show
their highest respect for Moses
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their beloved leader who was
now gone. So the picture is very
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clear. All the founders died
what we would call an honorable
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death. When we come to the last,
Jesus, and Christianity look at
00:17:31.15\00:17:37.19
this picture. Here are the words
"With him were also crucified
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two robbers, one on His right
and the other on His left...and
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He was numbered with the
transgressors..." The other word
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is numbered with the criminals.
Now it's very clear as to who
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was in the center there. If one
was crucified to his right and
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one was crucified to his left.
Now in Roman tradition, whenever
00:17:59.84\00:18:04.25
there there was an odd number of
criminals crucified then the one
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in the center was the worst
criminal. So that's how he died.
00:18:08.92\00:18:14.09
And crucified! If you look at
the picture you will find that
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the artist has painted a picture
of the crucifixion and he has
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placed a loincloth around his
middle. That is just because the
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artist wants to be decent. Those
who were crucified in the days
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of the Roman Empire were
crucified stark naked and that
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was because they were supposed
to be put to shame, the maximum
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shame should be thrust upon this
individual. And so they would
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strip him of every bit of
clothes he had and put him up on
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the cross for everyone to see
his shame. They were going to
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take away the last vestige of
dignity in this individual and
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that is why they would strip
them naked. So Jesus actually
00:19:05.51\00:19:09.28
because of the Roman time that
we would see he was on the cross
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naked. Shamed in his death. In
fact, the story or the record in
00:19:15.38\00:19:22.96
the Old Testament describes
a certain thing that they were
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supposed to do with anyone who
was hanged. By the way, he was
00:19:26.36\00:19:31.93
convicted in the Sanhedrin of
the Jews of blasphemy. Now this
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punishment for blasphemy is
stoning to death. But when the
00:19:38.37\00:19:43.95
Jewish priests and rabbis and
rulers came to Pilot to demand
00:19:43.98\00:19:49.75
his death, they did not ask for
stoning. They very specifically
00:19:49.78\00:19:53.99
asked for crucifixion because
crucifixion is a form of hanging
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and in their own books of the
law, the Torah, the five books
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of Moses it clearly states that
when capital punishment is meted
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out to an individual and it
is to be in the form of hanging,
00:20:12.14\00:20:16.44
then it was very significant
because anyone who is hanged
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is cursed of God. These are the
words in the Torah: "You shall
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surely bury him that day, so
that you do not defile the land
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...for he who is hanged is
accursed of God." You should not
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even leave the body above
the ground. It is so vile, so
00:20:39.10\00:20:44.27
corrupt, this person is such
a horrible criminal that you
00:20:44.31\00:20:48.34
should not leave the body above
the ground. You should bury it
00:20:48.38\00:20:51.25
because if you leave it above
the ground the whole land is
00:20:51.28\00:20:53.62
defiled. That is the extent of
the way people looked at anyone
00:20:53.65\00:20:58.92
who was crucified or hanged.
That was the ending of him.
00:20:58.95\00:21:03.73
Hanged, naked. Not only that
"At the ninth hour Jesus cried
00:21:03.76\00:21:10.63
out with a loud voice saying
- 'My God my God why have you
00:21:10.67\00:21:17.74
forsaken me?'" Now imagine that.
Stripped naked, shamed, shown to
00:21:17.77\00:21:28.58
everyone that you are hanged.
So according to the law you are
00:21:28.62\00:21:34.72
accursed of God and now from
your own mouth comes the words
00:21:34.76\00:21:40.00
forsaken of God. Think of
the ending of his life. He was
00:21:40.03\00:21:46.63
condemned and sentenced to
death by: The highest religious
00:21:46.67\00:21:50.57
authority in his nation - the
Sanhedrin, the highest civil and
00:21:50.61\00:21:55.34
judicial authority in the world
- Rome and the highest authority
00:21:55.38\00:22:00.25
in the universe - God. How can
an ending be more pathetic than
00:22:00.28\00:22:07.32
that. Forsaken of family,
forsaken of community, forsaken
00:22:07.36\00:22:12.79
of nation, forsaken by every
community around him, forsaken
00:22:12.83\00:22:16.97
by God himself. With that ending
one would look around and like
00:22:17.00\00:22:24.71
we said we are going to be
inquirers. So when you see the
00:22:24.74\00:22:30.58
story and look around today of
what there is there would come
00:22:30.61\00:22:35.15
to your mind and mine the
question how can anyone follow
00:22:35.18\00:22:40.19
a condemned criminal. And
yet people followed him. If he
00:22:40.22\00:22:46.70
really was that kind of
a criminal why do the great
00:22:46.73\00:22:50.70
artists of today choose themes
from his stories, from his
00:22:50.73\00:22:56.14
parables and paint some of
the most beautiful paintings and
00:22:56.17\00:23:02.41
hang them up in the most
prestigous museums of the world?
00:23:02.44\00:23:07.65
Why do some top sculptors choose
themes from him? And make out
00:23:07.68\00:23:16.09
their products. Place them
in such places that everyone
00:23:16.12\00:23:21.36
admires them. Really? Was this
criminal so attractive so that
00:23:21.40\00:23:28.17
these people would be attracted
and catch ahold of his theory,
00:23:28.20\00:23:32.44
his teaching, his
parables? Some of the greatest
00:23:32.47\00:23:37.71
institutions of learning in the
middle ages were started out by
00:23:37.75\00:23:43.32
people who put his name onto the
universities. Look if I give you
00:23:43.35\00:23:50.73
or if you gave me a hundred
million dollars and said go and
00:23:50.76\00:23:56.06
establish a university would you
honestly, would you put the name
00:23:56.10\00:24:01.64
of a criminal on the central
buildings of your university?
00:24:01.67\00:24:04.81
I think not. I wouldn't.
But there are universities
00:24:04.84\00:24:09.34
that started out
00:24:09.38\00:24:10.71
in his name. How come they
chose his name? Put it onto the
00:24:10.75\00:24:15.35
central buildings of
the university. But he was a
00:24:15.38\00:24:19.79
criminal. When you look at those
who do work today, work for the
00:24:19.82\00:24:27.20
downtrodden, you know one of
the groups that really does this
00:24:27.23\00:24:32.13
work well in all natural
disasters and wars, there is one
00:24:32.17\00:24:37.84
group that always goes there
first to help the needy. And
00:24:37.87\00:24:43.75
they stay there the longest.
They are called by his name.
00:24:43.78\00:24:47.88
Isn't that amazing. How come
they're going out for a criminal
00:24:47.92\00:24:52.15
There are people who go out from
their land to another land to
00:24:52.19\00:24:58.29
talk about this criminal. I've
seen them. Sometimes they do not
00:24:58.33\00:25:04.07
stay in good homes and good
places where they can have all
00:25:04.10\00:25:09.27
the amenities of life. They go
out into the boonies, into the
00:25:09.30\00:25:13.01
villages and they sit with the
people who they talk, they eat
00:25:13.04\00:25:18.11
their food, drink their dirty
water, contract those diarrheal
00:25:18.15\00:25:23.32
and awful diseases and die and
are buried there with a little
00:25:23.35\00:25:28.42
mound of dirt over their bodies,
not even a name tag nearby.
00:25:28.46\00:25:32.73
What makes them do that? And
they point to this naked body on
00:25:32.76\00:25:37.27
the cross, that's the reason.
There must be something more my
00:25:37.30\00:25:40.50
friends. Who put this criminal
into the center of western
00:25:40.54\00:25:47.71
civilization's calendar and
split it into two. B.C. - before
00:25:47.74\00:25:54.22
Christ, A.D. You know today
if you write a check you have to
00:25:54.25\00:25:59.55
date it. Do you know what that
date refers to? The date refers
00:25:59.59\00:26:04.86
to the birth of this criminal.
Amazing. How can a criminal have
00:26:04.89\00:26:11.67
that much of an effect? So
we have ask ourselves is there
00:26:11.70\00:26:16.50
something more to the story
than just what we see? How can a
00:26:16.54\00:26:22.98
person who had the worst start
in life, the shortest ministry,
00:26:23.01\00:26:28.78
and the worst ending in life
have the following that has the
00:26:28.82\00:26:34.26
greatest number on planet earth
today. Christians number more
00:26:34.29\00:26:38.89
than two billion. How shall we
explain that? Is it easy to just
00:26:38.93\00:26:45.90
give an explanation and say
these people are deluded? No it
00:26:45.93\00:26:49.90
is not. There must be something
that we must look into to give
00:26:49.94\00:26:54.68
an explanation of why this
discrepancy between this kind of
00:26:54.71\00:26:58.38
a life and this kind of
a following today. And so I
00:26:58.41\00:27:05.19
stopped and looked over what
we've done and then I realized
00:27:05.22\00:27:08.42
that we have to go to one more
question and that question is
00:27:08.46\00:27:14.26
what happened after death?
And that will be the one that we
00:27:14.30\00:27:20.34
will look at in
our next session.
00:27:20.37\00:27:24.21
Don't go away. Join me for that.
00:27:24.24\00:27:25.74
If you have enjoyed this
presentation with Dr. Subodh
00:27:25.77\00:27:31.11
Pandit and wish to watch more of
this unique 13 part series for
00:27:31.15\00:27:35.02
free online visit the website
GodFactOrFiction.com. That's
00:27:35.05\00:27:40.89
GodFactOrFiction.com. If
you would like to order this
00:27:40.92\00:27:44.63
fascinating series on DVD it is
now available from White Horse
00:27:44.66\00:27:48.30
media...
00:27:48.33\00:27:54.84
Dr. Subodh Pandit has written
two eye-opening books entitled
00:27:54.87\00:27:59.24
Come Search With Me: Does God
Really Exist? and Come Search
00:27:59.27\00:28:03.71
With Me: The Weight of Evidence
which further explore the topics
00:28:03.75\00:28:07.12
of evolution,
theism, atheism and religion.
00:28:07.15\00:28:11.59
¤ ¤
00:28:11.62\00:28:28.30