¤ ¤ Subodh K. Pandit, M.D.
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We've come now to session six.
We're making good progress. I'm
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glad you joined me again. When
we discussed in the previous
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session we saw that we were able
to go through the question of
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atheism, which says God does not
exist, and we looked at theism,
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which said God does exist. We
looked at both. Then we went on
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and looked at the Theory
of Evolution and there also we
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looked at two: Does the theory
of Evolution match the criteria
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for a scientific theory or does
it not match the criteria for a
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scientific theory. So we did
that together. And once we have
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finished that we recognized that
beyond the natural it seems to
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reasonable and scientific that
there is a supernatural via the
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study of atheism and theism
and also the study of evolution,
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whether it is scientific or not.
When we do these kind of studies
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we recognize that it's a big
topic. And remember what we have
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said earlier, when there's a big
topic and we jump into it one
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question leads to another and
that leads to yet another and
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that's how it goes. And we also
said that we would look at these
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questions squarely. We will not
shy away from them. So now we
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recognize there might possibly
have a good chance that beyond
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the natural there is a
supernatural there could be God.
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So now the
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next question: If there's a God
is there an identity that he can
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have? Does he have a name? Can
we identify that? So we're going
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to look at that. But just before
we get into that here's another
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concept we need to clear.
It's a concept that says, we as
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humans really cannot have a
grasp of facts. We can make a
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guess but we can never say it's
a fact. It's called relativism.
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I wonder if you've heard of that
It says that all the statements
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which say that it's the truth
of the matter actually are only
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relatively true. There is no
such thing as real truth. For
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example, if I put my pointer on
the right side of the table we
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can ask ourselves is it right or
left? That depends on which side
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of the table you are on. If
you are on my side of the table,
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then the pointer's on the
right side. But if you're on the
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opposite side of the table then
that is on the left side. So
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which is this side of the table?
Well if I'm on this side of this
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side or this side or that side
or that side, but if I'm on that
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side of the table then this side
is that side and that side is
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this side. Can you see, it
goes back and forth and there's
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nothing set, nothing clearly set
so that we can say this is the
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truth. So they pulled that idea
out and the idea is correct but
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when you pull out it comes out
to what they call relativism.
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That means every statement on
earth is only relatively true.
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There is no such thing as truth.
Here's a statement by David
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Trueblood. He's describing this.
"There is no objective standard
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by which truth may be determined
so that truth varies with
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individuals and circumstances."
And Paul Feyerabend here's his
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statement: "There is only one
principle that can be defended
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under all circumstances and in
all stages of human development.
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It is the principle: anything
goes." I would like you to
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remember those words. Anything
goes which also means everything
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goes and which also means
everything's acceptable. So what
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is relativism claiming?
That all so-called truth is only
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relatively true. There is no
such thing as absolute truth or
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truth. So we've stated what
relative truth or relativism is.
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We have to also make a
definition of truth or absolute
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truth. And here's one such
definition: Absolute truth is
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that which is valid for
all people at all times at all
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places. It does not vary with
individuals and places. So now
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we have the question of whether
relativism can be examined and
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will it stand scrutiny? So we're
going to look at it in maybe two
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or three ways. Number one: The
claim is that everything goes.
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That was Paul Feyerabend.
Everything goes. In other words,
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Everything is acceptable. What's
the meaning of everything? Is
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anything left out. Not
everything means every thing.
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Well then it should also include
absolute truth, shouldn't it if
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it's everything? Everything
acceptable. So once you say
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everything is acceptable,
you should be truthful and
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everything is acceptable.
Absolute truth also is
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acceptable and if absolute truth
is acceptable when then relative
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truth is gone or relativism is
gone. Relativism is that which
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states that all statements are
only relatively true. How about
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another way of looking at
it? Did you remember when I said
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right side of the table could
also be left depending on the
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side of the table I'm standing
on. So in other words, words
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themselves may not have
fixed meaning. Right can be left
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depending on
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something else. So let's look at
that sentence and make it into a
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sentence. Words have no fixed
meaning. Think. That sentence
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with its words must have a fixed
meaning to tell me what it is
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saying. So the very words "words
have no fixed meaning" has to
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have fixed meaning. In other
words, relativism really is a
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self-defeating prospect. It
does not stand to real scrutiny.
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Here's another way of looking at
it. Suppose we say everything on
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earth or all statement
are relatively true and only
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relatively true. Well then they
could also be relatively false.
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All statements, relatively false
Isn't that how we could look at
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it? If it's only relatively true
well relatively false, okay.
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So here are two people having
a discussion. They want to know
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whether that statement is true.
And one says it is true and the
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other says, No that's not
true. It could be false. Well if
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that's the case then let's
appeal to the other factors.
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Factor B to find out if Factor
A is true or not. Because if
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Factor A is only relatively true
and it could be a little bit
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false. So we go back to Factor
B to find out if A should be
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taken as true or false, but B
itself is only relatively true.
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So we go to C to find
out whether B should be taken
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as false or true and then on and
on from A to B to C to D and we
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go on indefinitely. It is called
infinite regression. We regress
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from the first question to the
next and to the next and go on
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away from the original question.
In fact, if relativism is the
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norm, which that's an oxymoron
there itself, then you can't
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even ask a question because the
question has different meanings
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of its words. And if an answer
is given well the answer may be
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true or not and that has to
go to another factor to decide
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whether it's true or not.
Can you see what's happening?
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We are in a sea of being mixed
up in which we cannot even ask
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the question "So, it looks..."
said Michael Jubien: "it looks
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any apparent suggestion
(of relativism) is either self
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defeating or else is not a real
assertion, but something more
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like an empty slogan." Not a
philosophy. Ravi Zacharias says
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this: "That is precisely what I
believe postmodernism..." which
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is relativism..."Best represents
- a mood." It is not a
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principle, it is not a
philosophy, a mood. A mood can
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move back and forth. There's
nothing stable there. So how can
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we state that everything on
earth is just a mood. That would
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not be right. In other words,
in the words of Gene Veith
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right now: "To say 'It's
true that nothing is true is
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intrinsically meaningless
nonsense. The very statement -
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'there is no absolute truth'
- is an absolute truth. Think.
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Remember Paul Feyerabend's
statement, there's only one
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principle that can be defended
under all circumstances. Well
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that's an absolute truth.
To state that there's only one,
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nothing else. That's absolute.
So what relativism is doing is
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sitting, planting its base,
on an absolute truth and saying
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that it is not there. Well
really if you sit on a strong
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branch, put yourself there
and then chop the branch what
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happens to you; you will fall.
That is what happens to the
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truth of relativism if there is
that truth when you examine it.
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Chop, fall. Relativism does not
stand scrutiny. Relative truth
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does because there is relative
truth but relativism which says
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that every statement on earth
is true and only relatively true
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that does not stand scrutiny.
Now there's a similar idea when
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it comes to religion. It's
called pluralism. Look at the
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number of religions that could
possible be there Zoroastrianism
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Buddhism, Islam, Judaism,
Sikhism, Christianity, Hinduism,
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Confucianism, Taoism, Shintoism.
Well, this is only a partial
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list. And you know when I first
looked at that I said Wow how
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can we study all of that
to figure out which one it is.
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But then I started asking people
around and two clear-cut camps
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came into view. Camp
number one: I asked, What do you
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think of this big,
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long list? The answer was, Oh
don't worry about that big, long
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list. It could be big, it could
be small, but there's only one
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of them that is correct, the
one that I believe. It's called
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exclusivism. Mine is exclusively
correct. Camp number one. Camp
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number two was: Yeah, I know
that big long list is there, but
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not to worry at all because all
of them are actually the same
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paths or different
paths, the same goal.
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They're really the same.
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They have similar features,
similar doctrines and similar
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principles. They will get you
to the same place. Not to worry.
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Leave them there. But really
those are two very different
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camps. So I had to look and find
out and I'm asking you to come
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along with me. Let's look and
find out. Which one really makes
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the better sense. I had to look
at pluralism first because if
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that is true well I don't need
to search. I'll sit where I'm
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fine and you'll sit where you
are and you're fine. So I looked
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at pluralism. What does it say?
All religions lead to God. They
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are different paths but end up
at the same destination. Here's
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a statement by W.E. Hock: "God
is in the world - but Buddha,
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Jesus, Muhammad are in their
little closets, and we should
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thank them but never return to
them." How about a Zen saying?
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Zen is a mystic form of Buddhism
Here it is: "To understand God
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is to listen. Listen to Jesus
and Muhammad and Buddha, but
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don't get caught up in the
names..." Listen beyond them...
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"Listen to God's breath." And
so "- pluralism - recognizes not
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only the existence of other
religions, but their intrinsic
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equal value." That is what
Timothy George said. So the
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claim is that they are not only
valid and true but equally so.
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They are intrinsically equal.
Really? Is it true that the
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peaceful religions like Buddhism
and Zenism are of equal value
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to the Voodooism and those
religions that require child
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sacrifice, murder? I wonder.
So what I did was ask. Where did
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they get this idea from, this
idea of pluralism? They should
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have got it from the religions
themselves. So I went there to
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ask what was really in these
religious writings. And I looked
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at five great world religions:
Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism,
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Judaism and Christianity. And
when I read the writings this is
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what I found. Here Written codes
In Hinduism: I, in this case it
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is Krishna the one whose picture
is there, "I am the goal, the
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upholder, the master, the
witness, the home, the shelter
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and the most dear friend.
I am the creation and the
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annihilation, the basis of
everything, the resting place
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and eternal seed." And another
statement from the Introduction
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to the Bhagavad-Gita: "Let
there be one scripture...for the
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whole world - Bhagavad-Gita;
Let there be one God for the
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whole world - Sri Krishna; and
one hymn, one mantra, one prayer
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the chanting of his name."
How about Islam? In the Quran
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chapter two and verse 255
Ayah 255, it's supposed to be
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the Eagle of the Coronation
verse: "Allah! There is no God
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but He...The Living, The
Self-subsisting, Supporter of
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all... His are all things
in heaven and on earth... His
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throne doth extend over the
earth... He is the Most High,
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The Supreme." Then when we come
to Buddhism, here's a statement:
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"This Lord..." meaning the
ultimate Buddha... "is truly
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the Arhat..." Arhat is a person
who has reached the ultimate
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level of attainment... "fully
enlightened, perfect in his
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knowledge and conduct, well-gone
world-knower, unsurpassed,
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leader of men to be tamed,
teacher of gods and men, the
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Buddha, the Lord." Judaism:
"For thus saith the Lord, who
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created the heavens, who is God,
who formed the earth... 'I am
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the Lord and there is no other'.
Did you notice that none of them
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want to give the other any
quarter. How about Christianity
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"...There is no other name under
heaven, given among men by which
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we must be saved." So I did not
find a single religion that gave
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the others were an equal
alternative. They all claim to
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be themselves the only way. Not
only did they do that claim they
00:16:26.38\00:16:31.02
also pointed the faults of the
other religions. Example: "The
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Buddha held that this belief in
a permanent self or soul is one
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of the most deceitful delusions
ever held by man." He is
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describing the Hindu doctrine
of the incarnation. In Judaism,
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the words are: "...understand
that I am He. Before me there
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was no God formed, nor shall
there be after me." One sentence
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and he has knocked off all
the other competitors. How about
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Christianity? "All who ever
came before Me are thieves and
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robbers..." Knocked them off.
Islam: "Those to whom the burden
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of Torah was entrusted and yet
refused to bear it are like a
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donkey laden with books.
Wretched is the example of those
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who deny God's revelations."
That was from the Quran. Who is
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it talking about? Jews and
Christians. They say they are
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the only way and point to all
the others and say they are not
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the way. So if the words are
donkey and wretched, thieves,
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robbers, deceitful and no God.
Each of them saying it. How can
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pluralism really claim that all
the religions are actually true,
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equally true, equally good,
equally valid. The fact is that
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the religion codes clearly claim
exclusivity. They claim to be
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the only way. Each religion
claims that. Here's a statement
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that I have. Ravi Zacharias -
At the heart of every religion
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is an uncompromising commitment
to a particular way of defining
00:17:59.07\00:18:04.05
who God is or is not...
Every religion at its core is
00:18:04.08\00:18:09.28
exclusive." So pluralism
does not appear to be an
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established idea in the writings
of its founder. However, every
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religion claims to be the only
way. So now we have multiple
00:18:17.93\00:18:22.40
claims claiming to be the only
way. How shall we logically look
00:18:22.43\00:18:27.64
at that? What happens when there
are multiple claims to be the
00:18:27.67\00:18:30.21
only way. Well, there is more
than one way of looking at it.
00:18:30.24\00:18:34.84
Number one: All are correct.
That's absurd. If one says he's
00:18:34.88\00:18:40.15
the only way, the other says
he also is the only way, both of
00:18:40.18\00:18:43.05
them cannot be correct. Or they
could be all wrong. Yeah, that's
00:18:43.08\00:18:48.06
not absurd. But how do you call
anything wrong? Only when you
00:18:48.09\00:18:53.36
have that which is right in your
hand. And you and I are just
00:18:53.40\00:18:57.17
inquirers. We do not have what
is right in our hand to call it
00:18:57.20\00:19:01.30
wrong. In other words, we cannot
go up to any of the founders and
00:19:01.34\00:19:03.94
say they are wrong. Otherwise
we'd have to go to Mohammad and
00:19:03.97\00:19:06.74
say, Mohammad I know what you
said. I think you're wrong. Or
00:19:06.78\00:19:10.15
go up to Jesus and say very good
sermon on the mount sir but I
00:19:10.18\00:19:14.78
think Mm-mmm that's not really
good. It is not a good sermon at
00:19:14.82\00:19:19.02
all. How can you say that? You
have no authority, no knowledge,
00:19:19.05\00:19:23.19
no position so I could not call
all of them wrong. If that's the
00:19:23.22\00:19:27.80
case I cannot call all of them
right. Absurd. I cannot call all
00:19:27.83\00:19:33.87
of them wrong. I have no
authority. I have no way of
00:19:33.90\00:19:38.27
saying that any of them are
wrong. Then there's only one
00:19:38.31\00:19:41.44
option left, an amazing option.
Only one is legitimate and
00:19:41.48\00:19:47.22
correct in its claim to be
the only way. In other words, a
00:19:47.25\00:19:51.35
crucial, amazing pivotal
conclusion: There is one and
00:19:51.39\00:19:55.59
only one religion that can make
a legitimate claim of being the
00:19:55.62\00:19:58.76
"only way." In other words,
there is there is one and only
00:19:58.79\00:20:02.93
one way! Wow! Did you think of
that? Think again. Think of how
00:20:02.96\00:20:10.47
we came to it. We looked at
all the writings. We saw the
00:20:10.51\00:20:14.31
writings, what the writings
said. And if we use logic, when
00:20:14.34\00:20:18.45
each religion claims to be the
only way then logically you and
00:20:18.48\00:20:24.19
I have to agree that out of all
of them there is only one that
00:20:24.22\00:20:28.42
is correct and legitimate when
it makes that claim of being the
00:20:28.46\00:20:33.06
only way. Amazing. So now
if that's the case what is the
00:20:33.09\00:20:39.40
significance when it comes to
the point of being the only way?
00:20:39.43\00:20:46.84
Well a conclusion reached by a
00:20:46.88\00:20:50.55
"neutral" person. Destroys the
concept of pluralism. And also
00:20:50.58\00:20:56.92
the fundamental claim, in other
words, such basic claim that if
00:20:56.95\00:21:01.39
it is not the only way well it's
a very suspect way then. And
00:21:01.42\00:21:05.73
furthermore it's a powerful
motivating claim. You see these
00:21:05.76\00:21:10.63
founders and religions
claimed that this world is not
00:21:10.67\00:21:13.84
really good.
00:21:13.87\00:21:15.20
That other world is better and
in fact it's really bad here.
00:21:15.24\00:21:18.07
So we need to get there. And
they said this is the only way
00:21:18.11\00:21:22.98
to get there, each of them said
that. Powerful motivating claim
00:21:23.01\00:21:26.78
and we said it's the only way.
It also dictates the type of
00:21:26.82\00:21:30.72
search we will now do because
tell me if there's only one
00:21:30.75\00:21:36.12
religion to be champion how far
ahead should that champion be
00:21:36.16\00:21:40.26
to be called a champion. How far
is the Olympic gold medalist in
00:21:40.30\00:21:45.70
a hundred meters sprint, how far
ahead? Point zero one second and
00:21:45.73\00:21:51.34
he is the gold medalist. He is
the champion, he is the only one
00:21:51.37\00:21:54.88
who can be called the fastest
man in the world. None of the
00:21:54.91\00:21:57.48
others. But all the others also
ran so well. They ran almost
00:21:57.51\00:22:02.45
like him. He has to be up ahead.
So the amount that a person is
00:22:02.48\00:22:07.92
ahead is not the matter.
Secondly how is it that we check
00:22:07.96\00:22:14.36
this out? Just being ahead?
That's not really going to do it
00:22:14.40\00:22:18.93
There's another way that we
could check this out. And that
00:22:18.97\00:22:23.87
is can we compare apples and
oranges? How far ahead of that
00:22:23.91\00:22:30.65
should they be? Very little bit.
How else can we identify that
00:22:30.68\00:22:34.62
anywhere? Here's where. Think
about this now. Suppose I'm
00:22:34.65\00:22:41.16
looking for the correct colored
marble and in my hand I have
00:22:41.19\00:22:46.83
four purple, three blue,
two green, one red. Which is the
00:22:46.86\00:22:52.40
correct color if I said that
only one is correctly colored?
00:22:52.43\00:22:55.80
The red. Because there's only
one of the red. So really to
00:22:55.84\00:23:00.11
identify that only way it does
not have to be superior. There's
00:23:00.14\00:23:04.61
no question of superiority or
inferiority. There is only the
00:23:04.65\00:23:08.45
question of whether it is
different from the others.
00:23:08.48\00:23:12.99
Now the next question. So did
you get that? So let's discuss
00:23:13.02\00:23:16.73
it out. Let's say that only one
is doing it right. So suppose we
00:23:16.76\00:23:22.90
are watching a race and
everybody's running in the race
00:23:22.93\00:23:30.17
except one competitor and he
is walking. Which is the correct
00:23:30.21\00:23:34.44
way to compete? Walking because
we have already said that there
00:23:34.48\00:23:39.55
would be only one doing it
right How about another way? If
00:23:39.58\00:23:43.95
everybody is going forward, only
one is going backward which is
00:23:43.99\00:23:47.76
the correct way to go? Backward.
Because we had already stated
00:23:47.79\00:23:51.36
that only one would be doing
it right. So in other words,
00:23:51.39\00:23:54.56
it doesn't have to be superior
or inferior or extremely
00:23:54.60\00:23:58.80
impressive it just has to be
very, very different, unique.
00:23:58.83\00:24:03.37
Once it's by itself that's the
one. So that's the way to choose
00:24:03.41\00:24:09.31
But now we come to the tough one
How do you compare apples and
00:24:09.34\00:24:14.05
oranges? Can you compare? No you
can't. But can you choose? There
00:24:14.08\00:24:20.69
might be a way of choosing it
even though you cannot compare.
00:24:20.72\00:24:23.99
Here's what I mean. Suppose I
like oranges and if you placed
00:24:24.03\00:24:30.93
an apple and an orange on the
table, I'd go for the orange.
00:24:30.97\00:24:34.50
But this day, today, I'm hungry
and I want to eat. And on the
00:24:34.54\00:24:41.08
table is an apple and an orange.
The apple is sweet and juicy,
00:24:41.11\00:24:45.68
red and fresh. What if the
orange is rotten and has worms
00:24:45.71\00:24:51.12
in it? Now which one would
I choose? I would choose the
00:24:51.15\00:24:56.12
apple although normally, in
normal circumstances, I would
00:24:56.16\00:25:00.23
have chosen the orange. But
I like oranges. So did I choose
00:25:00.26\00:25:05.93
between an apple and an orange?
Yes and no. Yes I chose between
00:25:05.97\00:25:14.44
an apple and an orange but if it
was only an apple and an orange
00:25:14.48\00:25:18.38
I would have chosen the orange.
So there has to be some other
00:25:18.41\00:25:22.18
factor too. And with that factor
I say no, I did not really
00:25:22.22\00:25:25.92
choose between an apple
and an orange. I chose between
00:25:25.95\00:25:30.16
freshness and rottenness.
Similarly then we look at the
00:25:30.19\00:25:36.46
doctrines and philosophies
of these different religions. We
00:25:36.50\00:25:39.23
cannot compare the doctrines
and the philosophies. We have to
00:25:39.27\00:25:43.61
look at another factor that we
can put onto them and in my case
00:25:43.64\00:25:49.48
it was rottenness and freshness
and we put it onto the question
00:25:49.51\00:25:52.31
and made a choice that was so
good that nobody would disagree.
00:25:52.35\00:25:55.62
I chose the apple. Similarly
here we need to place something
00:25:55.65\00:25:59.82
else onto the religious
doctrines. And here's what it
00:25:59.85\00:26:03.32
is. Every message that came
to the human race as a religion
00:26:03.36\00:26:07.96
came in the form of a story.
History, story. The tenants of
00:26:08.00\00:26:14.77
the beliefs and the doctrines
are based on the story. So what
00:26:14.80\00:26:18.77
do I do? I turned my face from
the doctrines to the story and I
00:26:18.81\00:26:24.41
started looking at the story
because the story is from where
00:26:24.45\00:26:27.42
the doctrines came. So that
is what would be the next quest.
00:26:27.45\00:26:34.92
What about the stories of these
religions. I was going to look
00:26:34.96\00:26:40.16
at them and check that path.
I called it. I called it the
00:26:40.20\00:26:43.50
areligious factor, not the
religious factor. And I looked
00:26:43.53\00:26:48.37
at those factors and I chose
10 questions and those 10 would
00:26:48.40\00:26:53.61
form the way in which I would
now put it onto the doctrines
00:26:53.64\00:26:57.15
of the different religions and
find out if I could now make a
00:26:57.18\00:27:01.75
reasonable choice. Although
I cannot compare apples and
00:27:01.78\00:27:06.52
oranges, I cannot compare
the actual doctrines and the
00:27:06.55\00:27:10.76
philosophies and the tenants of
these. But I could do this and
00:27:10.79\00:27:15.23
that is what we will now do
in our next session on words. We
00:27:15.26\00:27:21.50
will look at the paralogous
factors and then make a decision
00:27:21.54\00:27:24.94
Join us for the next session.
00:27:24.97\00:27:27.64
If you have enjoyed this
presentation with Dr. Subodh
00:27:27.68\00:27:32.15
Pandit and with to watch more of
this unique 13 part series for
00:27:32.18\00:27:36.89
free online visit the website
GodFactOrFiction.com. That's
00:27:36.92\00:27:42.09
GodFactOrFiction.com. If
you would like to order this
00:27:42.12\00:27:45.99
fascinating series on DVD it is
now available from White Horse
00:27:46.03\00:27:49.70
Media...
00:27:49.73\00:27:55.74
Dr. Subodh Pandit has written
two eye-opening books entitled
00:27:55.77\00:28:01.24
Come Search With Me: Does God
Really Exist? and Come Search
00:28:01.28\00:28:05.65
With Me: The Weight of Evidence,
which further explore the topics
00:28:05.68\00:28:08.98
of evolution,
theism, atheism and religion.
00:28:09.02\00:28:13.12
¤ ¤
00:28:13.15\00:28:26.77