¤ ¤ Dr. Subodh K. Pandit
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Welcome again. This time we're
in session four. We are moving
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away a little bit from the
earlier topic and this time it
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is about evolution and the
theory of evolution. There is a
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difference between those two
and that's what we're going to
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look at. What really is the
theory of evolution and if we
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looked at it carefully would it
stand scrutiny and examination?
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What we are going to do once
again is to ask and place the
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whole argument and the whole
discussion on premises, the
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first principle on why we are
doing this at all. So here are
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the four that we will look
at. (1) The reason to study and
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examine evolution. (2) The
meaning of the word evolution.
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(3) Biological classification as
we know it and (4)The concepts
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of evolution. Let's look at each
of those. The reasons to study
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evolution. Why should we
look at it when everybody in the
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scientific world says it's right
and okay and it's the thing that
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is happening all over the world?
Well, some people still question
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as to whether those basics of
the claim will stand scrutiny.
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So here's the context in which
we are going to look at this.
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If the Theory of Evolution has a
reasonable/scientific base, then
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the study of "nature" and
nature's principles could show
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that God is not needed because
the creator of evolution says
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that it happened by itself,
natural selection got into play,
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and formed all these spectrums
of biological organisms that
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we have today. So if that is
true, we don't need any other
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agency to really bring us to
this point in our human history.
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Number two: If it is not
reasonable, not scientific then
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those events did not come to
happen and if that's the case
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then the "nature" and it's study
could endorse the claim that we
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do need a supernatural agency,
we'll call him God, to actually
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do the stuff that we see around
us and to bring us to this point
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in human history. So that is the
context in which we are going to
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look at the theory of evolution.
Number two: The meaning of
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evolution. Most people when
they use the word evolution they
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think everybody else means the
same thing. Not really. The word
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itself, evolution, means gradual
changes resulting in improvement
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over a period of time. So it's
gradual changes becoming better
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and better. That's all it is.
Whereas, the Theory of evolution
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is a specific type of evolution
described by Charles Darwin.
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He said that the starting point
was one simple organism and then
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it multiplied and made some
changes and those changes became
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so different the original
one that that was supposed to be
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classified as another species or
another genus and then it went
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on and on from species to
genus to the whole spectrum of
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biological classifications
we have on earth today. So those
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two, they seem similar but they
really are not Evolution meaning
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change for the better over a
period of time is acceptable.
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In fact, it's observational
data that allows us to say that.
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Yes, evolution does happen. The
question now is the Theory of
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Evolution that clear.
So we go to the spectrum of
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classifications. The Spectrum
of Classification of biological
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organisms, living beings
on earth. Number (1) there are
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Species. Those gradually change
to form variations and some
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species and races and breeds.
And the theory says, the theory
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of evolution says then those
changes became so great that you
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had to classify the
later organisms as different
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from the previous
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organisms. So it became from
species, genus. And then they
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multiplied and a group of
genera became so different
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from the original that it had to
have another classification. So
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from species to genus, family,
order, class, phylum, kingdom,
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and domain. Domain is really not
what you see. It has to do with
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the nuclei of the cells. If a
cell had a nucleus well it was
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classified as this domain and if
it did not have a nucleus it was
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classified as that domain.
For our purposes kingdom is good
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enough. But if you notice
I've highlighted the word phylum
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because we're going to look
at it later on. Look at where
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phylum is in the classification.
Way up there very close to
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kingdom. So when you look at the
spectrum of classification it is
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quite broad and big. So
when we talk of organisms being
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classified, this is what we mean
And the theory of evolution says
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starting with one organism
they branched out and became
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different until you have
all these organisms that can be
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classified in this manner.
Similarly when we look at the
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word evolution it means so many
things to different people. Some
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of them use it for a certain
part of evolution and some of
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them use it for say the
beginning of the whole universe
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and some them use it only
to deal with how one organism
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became another species. Let's
clarify that a little bit. So
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let's look at the concepts
of evolution because people use
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this word in quite a few
different ways. So here are the
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concepts. Number one: Cosmic
evolution. That would refer to
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how the universe came about
and evolved. It is not Darwinian
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evolution. We'll come to that
in a moment. Number two: Stellar
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evolution. How did galaxies
and stars form. In the beginning
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it was just radiation and those
radiation got gasses and some
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early elements. But how did
stars and galaxies form? That is
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stellar evolution. Then comes
Chemical Evolution. How did the
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chemicals join together
and synthesize themselves into
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what we know today as all these
stuff around us, chemical stuff.
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Gold, granite, silica. How
did those occur? That is that
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would be called
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chemical evolution. Then
the next thing that should have
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happened as these chemicals say
like rock, granite, sandstone
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maybe became a very specific
structure called cells, cellular
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structure so that inorganic
matter became organic so now it
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is organic evolution. How did
cells come about? How did those
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structures evolve into what we
know today as cells. That would
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be organic evolution. After
organic evolution, after the
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cellular structures came about
is what I would call Zoonotic
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Zo means life. How did that
structure which earlier had no
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life at all come about to now
become a living organism? That
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zoonotic evolution. Then comes
Darwinian evolution in which
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this one organism or creature
multiplied, kept multiplying,
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kept differentiating until you
have the whole spectrum of the
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biological classifications
you have today. The one that's
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at the bottom then of the
list is called Micro-Evolution.
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Micro-evolution is small amounts
of evolution in which a species
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does become a variation or
a sub-species or a breed or a
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race. Micro-evolution has
been scientifically established.
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Nobody disputes that. In other
words, evolution as a change,
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yes. Acceptable. The question is
did Darwinian evolution really
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take place, and if it did, do
we have good evidence that it is
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what it's claimed to be. Is
it really that kind of clear-cut
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process that happened? Now we
come to the fundamentals having
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set this as a premise.
The fundamentals of evolution
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require certain factors
to be present and to involve
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themselves in the play of
what happened. So here are three
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and then we will do
another three. So the Theory of
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Evolution requires at least
these three: Number one: Chance:
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Probability: In other
words, all the events are
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claimed to be only chance events
There was no question of any
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intellectual intelligent
activity that put these things
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things together, the process
together. Number two: Time:
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We require time because Charles
Darwin mentioned a lack of the
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creative said: Nature non facit
saltum, meaning nature does not
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like leaps. It likes only small
steps. So if it is small and the
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changes come over a period
of time it would require huge
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amounts of time, called deep
time, running into hundreds of
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millions and even billions of
years. The third factor that is
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required is the question of
Series. In other words sequence.
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This and then this and then that
There is an order. If you go
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backward then you'd be going
backwards in evolution so it
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has to be a series in which
a sequence is maintained. Let's
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look at each of these and see if
we scrutinize and examine them
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that they would stand up to
scrutiny. Number one: Chance:
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We discussed that in the
previous session. The question
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of chance and the question of
probability. Chance events means
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it occurred arbitrarily. There
is no pattern to it there is no
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sequence, real sequence, and
it occurs in an unpredictable
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manner. Rules do not apply over
there. Hence, we do want that a
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number of chances are given
so that this would occur. These
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many chances, this would
occur. And we saw that it can be
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mathematically calculated.
The calculation is called
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probability. Therefore, the
claim of a chance event can be
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put into a scientific study,
mathematical study. If the
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number of chances required
is too big, then the event
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didn't occur
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by chance. Rather, it
was an agent, intelligent
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agent or agency
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that actually performed that
event. We saw that to establish
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law of the chance is 10 to the
power of 50. Ten to the power of
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50 is a big number. So
the chance event requires more
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chances than that then
most probably it didn't occur by
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chance. We saw how big that
number was. Let's state it once
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again, give it a little context.
If 10 billion humans performed a
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test at one per second then from
the beginning of the universe up
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to now we would have
performed about 10 to the power
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of 28 chances.
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That's all. So 10 to the power
of 50 is a huge, huge number.
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What is the total chance
afforded by the whole universe
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from the time it
began the number of seconds
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multiplied by the number
of particles in the universe
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multiplied by the number of
interactions that could have
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occurred per second,
mathematicians have come up with
00:14:24.89\00:14:29.10
a probable number. The total
chance afforded by the universe
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is 10 to the power of 122.
Wow! That's a big number. But
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remember we saw Michael
Denton saying that just 100
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proteins coming together would
require 10 to the power of 2000
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chances and what about a whole
cell coming together, 10 to the
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power of one hundred billion.
Way beyond what the universe
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can afford. So the number
of chances is simply too big to
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state that it occurred by chance
If it did not occur by chance
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then life began and it is
perpetuated today had been done
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by an active agent, not by
chance. Number two: Requirement
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of time: You know in those days
people thought that the earth
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was young, the universe was
young. Then this is what George
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Levine in the introduction
to Charles Darwin's Origin of
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Species says: "It was (Charles)
Lyell (in Principles of Geology)
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who supplied Darwin with the
essential notion of geological
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time, stretching for
millions of years during which a
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gradual transformation of
species into varieties into
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subspecies into new
species could unfold." But these
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postulated times, they say
billions, hundreds of millions
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of years, billions of years
actually is not enough to do
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what they say it did. The debate
is not whether the universe is
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young or old but it's whether
the old universe which has 13.72
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billion years of age provides
sufficient time for the theory
00:16:19.91\00:16:24.35
of evolution. Look at one
calculation. G. G. Simpson
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is a renowned evolutionist "Thus
as G.G. Simpson's calculations
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of rates of evolution show,
the bat's wing, if evolved by
00:16:37.46\00:16:41.00
'normal' Mendelian mutation and
selective pressure, would have
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had to begin developing well
before the origin of the earth."
00:16:44.43\00:16:48.04
Just one part of one animal
required more than the whole
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age of the earth - 4.5 billion
years. Number two: The Origin
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of Species by Charles Darwin
has only one diagram and it's
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lines going across the
page meaning that each line
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represented about a million
to a billion generations. Now he
00:17:06.02\00:17:15.03
had 10 lines so after 10 it
became a variety. If the age of
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the elephant or the generation
of an elephant is 30 years and
00:17:22.34\00:17:27.64
each of those lines is a billion
then we would need 30 billion
00:17:27.68\00:17:33.01
years to change an elephant just
to one of its varieties. Not
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enough time. Number three:
Astronomers have told us of
00:17:37.29\00:17:41.62
12 billion light years away have
been detected. And that is 1368
00:17:41.66\00:17:48.13
trillion kilometers. Now how
do you get that far? We know the
00:17:48.16\00:17:52.03
galaxies are moving. Our own
galaxy is moving at the rate of
00:17:52.07\00:17:55.67
19 billion kilometers per year.
Even at 10 times that speed that
00:17:55.70\00:18:00.48
speed that galaxy would have
required 7000 billion years to
00:18:00.51\00:18:06.25
get there. How does it compare
with 13.72 billion years of the
00:18:06.28\00:18:11.45
universe that we have today?
Then the correct sequence. First
00:18:11.49\00:18:15.92
the species then the variety.
Species is the parent then
00:18:15.96\00:18:20.83
variety. But look at what
Charles Darwin's own words are:
00:18:20.86\00:18:24.30
He "was...struck how entirely
vague and arbitrary is the
00:18:24.33\00:18:28.44
distinction between species and
variety." The species, or the
00:18:28.47\00:18:32.57
parent, was at times whichever
was (a) "first discovered" or
00:18:32.61\00:18:36.61
whichever was (b) "more common,"
whichever was (c) "greater in
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number" or whichever was (d)
"wider in distribution." That is
00:18:38.75\00:18:42.12
not a sequence. That's another
factor put in. So if that's the
00:18:42.15\00:18:45.99
case then it's possible that
the parents were not really the
00:18:46.02\00:18:50.83
parents of the daughter or the
daughter was really the parent.
00:18:50.86\00:18:53.83
If that's the case well
the theory of evolution could
00:18:53.86\00:18:56.53
have been going in the reverse.
Now three more fundamental
00:18:56.56\00:19:01.30
factors. The claim is that
similarities show a relationship
00:19:01.34\00:19:08.91
between father and son, mother
and daughter. Number two: It is
00:19:08.94\00:19:14.75
structural changes that are
required so that we can survive
00:19:14.78\00:19:19.19
better or the organism could
survive better. Number three
00:19:19.22\00:19:23.99
of the second set which will
be number six: Darwin's natural
00:19:24.03\00:19:27.60
"selection." In other words,
something had to be selected.
00:19:27.63\00:19:30.87
So let's look at these three.
Does similarity actually denote
00:19:30.90\00:19:37.31
genealogy meaning birth giving
rise to the next generation?
00:19:37.34\00:19:42.31
Relatives, blood relatives.
"We have no written pedigree..."
00:19:42.34\00:19:47.65
says Charles Darwin. "We have to
make out community of descent by
00:19:47.68\00:19:51.15
resemblances of any kind." In
other words, none of the fossils
00:19:51.19\00:19:55.29
that are buried there are buried
with a birth certificate. So how
00:19:55.32\00:19:59.83
do we know which one is related
to which? Well, we look at
00:19:59.86\00:20:03.57
similarities, said Charles
Darwin. Now scientific data does
00:20:03.60\00:20:09.07
show something. It shows that
an organism which has a genetic
00:20:09.10\00:20:15.41
code. Specific, let's say
organism A has a genetic code A
00:20:15.44\00:20:19.55
which gives us its features,
we'll call it A1. Organism B has
00:20:19.58\00:20:25.82
a genetic code BB which gives
rise to its features called B1
00:20:25.85\00:20:31.93
We do know that the genetic
codes if they are close together
00:20:31.96\00:20:35.53
will give rise to features
that are close together. That is
00:20:35.56\00:20:39.63
accepted; everyone recognizes
that. And so they say that shows
00:20:39.67\00:20:44.97
that well they did change, but
no. AA producing A1 is one set.
00:20:45.01\00:20:55.62
Do you agree? BB producing
B1 features. Agreed? But that
00:20:55.65\00:21:00.52
doesn't mean A became B.
For A to become B we require a
00:21:00.56\00:21:07.06
smooth series of intermediates
to show that A became a
00:21:07.10\00:21:11.67
little different and a
00:21:11.70\00:21:13.03
little different and then became
B. That has never been shown.
00:21:13.07\00:21:17.91
So here's what Heribert Nilsson
from Europe, a big scientist,
00:21:17.94\00:21:23.55
a scientist who is well
known there, he says: "We have
00:21:23.58\00:21:26.55
also proved that a morphological
similarity between organisms
00:21:26.58\00:21:30.59
cannot be used as proof of a
phylogenetic..." or evolutionary
00:21:30.62\00:21:35.52
"relationship." In other words,
just because they are similar
00:21:35.56\00:21:39.16
does not mean one came out from
the other. One was the daughter
00:21:39.19\00:21:44.33
of this parent. How about Austin
Clark? Look at his words: "There
00:21:44.37\00:21:50.21
is not the slightest evidence
that any one group of the major
00:21:50.24\00:21:55.24
groups arose from any other."
This idea that did arise was
00:21:55.28\00:22:02.68
based on the theory, hoping that
the theory would be established.
00:22:02.72\00:22:07.92
What if the theory is
not established by actual
00:22:07.96\00:22:12.83
information and data that we get
from the fossil record which is
00:22:12.86\00:22:17.20
called paleontology. What if
you don't get it. The fact is we
00:22:17.23\00:22:22.07
still have not got the data.
The fundamental principle that
00:22:22.10\00:22:27.64
similarity is based on genealogy
not yet substantiated. How about
00:22:27.68\00:22:35.45
when a structure changes affect
survival? Here are Charles
00:22:35.48\00:22:39.19
Darwin's words: "The slightest
difference of structure or
00:22:39.22\00:22:43.36
constitution may well turn
the nicely balanced scale in the
00:22:43.39\00:22:47.73
struggle for life and so be
preserved." In other words, what
00:22:47.76\00:22:51.30
he's saying is that when some
organism changes a little bit
00:22:51.33\00:22:57.01
and if that little bit change is
really beneficial then that is
00:22:57.04\00:23:02.14
held on and passed on from
generation to generation. And
00:23:02.18\00:23:06.88
then as those structures are
passed on to the next generation
00:23:06.92\00:23:10.39
another good beneficial change
comes in you add it on to that
00:23:10.42\00:23:15.62
and so it goes on adding until
you get another organism that
00:23:15.66\00:23:19.89
really is much better than
the previous one. That is the
00:23:19.93\00:23:22.83
meaning of structural changes
helping survival. But these
00:23:22.86\00:23:28.37
"slightest differences" that
Charles Darwin said have never
00:23:28.40\00:23:32.77
been described. Why? Because
those slight changes may not
00:23:32.81\00:23:39.48
have affected survival at all!
Look at another statement that
00:23:39.51\00:23:43.15
he has made "...habits have
changed without a corresponding
00:23:43.18\00:23:47.96
change in structure." So if
habits change to help survival
00:23:47.99\00:23:56.23
we really don't need structural
changes to help survival. Can
00:23:56.26\00:24:01.80
you see that point? So what
we are looking at now is a claim
00:24:01.84\00:24:09.11
that there are structural
changes. But a small change in
00:24:09.14\00:24:14.52
behavior itself could do
the trick. For example: They say
00:24:14.55\00:24:19.55
that the neck of the giraffe was
stretched out longer and longer
00:24:19.59\00:24:23.63
as it reached up higher and
higher for the foliage that was
00:24:23.66\00:24:29.46
higher and higher on the tree.
Really? Can you see how a little
00:24:29.50\00:24:36.37
change in behavior could
have compensated for that so
00:24:36.40\00:24:39.74
really a small giraffe with not
that long a neck and it's eating
00:24:39.77\00:24:44.15
the leaves at this level and
then the leaves at this level
00:24:44.18\00:24:48.38
were maybe eaten up. So it
had to reach the upper level. It
00:24:48.42\00:24:55.39
didn't have to grow, become a
longer neck. It just had to lift
00:24:55.42\00:25:00.96
up its nose and its mouth and
pick up leaves higher. And if
00:25:01.00\00:25:05.13
leaves even higher than that
had to be eaten then it would
00:25:05.17\00:25:08.97
have gone on its hind legs
and put its forelegs up onto the
00:25:09.00\00:25:12.41
tree and reached up. There's no
need, in other words, to change
00:25:12.44\00:25:16.98
the length of the neck. The fact
really is we can look around and
00:25:17.01\00:25:24.45
see long necked giraffes, short
necked guerrillas and even other
00:25:24.49\00:25:30.19
other organisms with no
discernable neck like centipedes
00:25:30.23\00:25:35.96
living in the same environment.
So obviously you don't have to
00:25:36.00\00:25:40.64
have that long neck. Therefore,
changes really in structure were
00:25:40.67\00:25:45.77
not required. How about natural
selection. Nature selects only
00:25:45.81\00:25:51.35
for the benefit of the being she
tends. Does this selection make
00:25:51.38\00:25:57.22
the aggressor more likely
to succeed or the victim more
00:25:57.25\00:26:02.12
likely to escape? Now we have to
agree that nature is blind. It
00:26:02.16\00:26:07.30
cannot see which is the
aggressor and which is the
00:26:07.33\00:26:09.43
victim. So it has to help both.
00:26:09.46\00:26:11.90
So if it selects both of them
really can you call it selection
00:26:11.93\00:26:17.21
If it selects all the whole
of nature that is not really
00:26:17.24\00:26:22.14
selection of any kind so the
word natural selection really is
00:26:22.18\00:26:28.28
in question. Did nature really
select or did something happen
00:26:28.32\00:26:34.72
by which they were all given
those attributes and they are
00:26:34.76\00:26:38.46
still producing their behavioral
patterns and their offspring
00:26:38.49\00:26:42.96
because of the pattern that they
were given, to begin with? So
00:26:43.00\00:26:48.00
here are the fundamental
principles supposed to be in the
00:26:48.04\00:26:52.04
theory: Chance. Not enough
chance. Requirement of deep time
00:26:52.07\00:26:58.45
We don't have enough time. The
correct sequence has not been
00:26:58.48\00:27:02.32
set because the daughter could
be the parent, the parent could
00:27:02.35\00:27:05.12
be the daughter. Similarity
denotes genealogy. That has not
00:27:05.15\00:27:09.52
been established. Structural
change really causing survival.
00:27:09.56\00:27:15.03
That also has not been shown
clearly. Natural selection.
00:27:15.06\00:27:18.90
Really selection went on? Not a
single fundamental principle has
00:27:18.93\00:27:24.24
been satisfactorily
established. We'll go to the
00:27:24.27\00:27:28.18
next one in the next session.
00:27:28.21\00:27:30.91
If you have enjoyed this
presentation with Dr. Subodh
00:27:30.95\00:27:35.38
Pandit and wish to watch more of
this unique 13 part series for
00:27:35.42\00:27:39.75
free online visit the website
GodFactOrFiction.com. That's
00:27:39.79\00:27:44.96
GodFactOrFiction.com. If
you would like to order this
00:27:44.99\00:27:48.93
fascinating series on DVD it is
now available from White Horse
00:27:48.96\00:27:52.47
media...
00:27:52.50\00:27:58.71
Dr. Subodh Pandit has written
two eye-opening books entitled
00:27:58.74\00:28:04.18
Come Search With Me: Does God
Really Exist? and Come Search
00:28:04.21\00:28:08.35
With Me: The Weight of Evidence
which further explore the topics
00:28:08.38\00:28:11.82
of evolution, theism,
atheism, and religion.
00:28:11.85\00:28:17.43
¤ ¤
00:28:17.46\00:28:29.24