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Hello, Welcome. I am
Subodh Pandit, a medical doctor
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with specialty in
internal medicine. I was born
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and brought up
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in India. I then came and lived
in the United States. Apart from
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my career I would constantly
think of things that people
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would grapple and wrestle
and converse about and not
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come to any real conclusion.
I wondered why so I began to
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look into it and my intellectual
journey went on for years and
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even decades. So what I'm going
to do now is share some of that
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with you. And we're going to do
it over 13 periods and sessions
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I hope that you will stay with
me the whole way. Look at the
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topic we're going to discuss
today. God, Fact or Fiction.
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Huge as well as controversial.
And in fact if you go into it
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one question will lead to
another and yet to another.
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But what we are going to do
is face those questions, not shy
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away and face them
squarely. Welcome friend to this
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intellectual journey. My main
aim is to make you think and
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think critically, think
for yourself. So whatever your
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present ideas or philosophies
put on your thinking cap and
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come search with me. One of the
main reasons these debates never
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come to a satisfying conclusion
is because they don't start off
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with the right foot. And what
do I mean by that? The sides and
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the people involved in the
debate do not sit together and
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decide what it is that
will form the base of their
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discussion. In other words, what
are the principles that will
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guide them. I call them premises
The premises have to set before
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the debate so that everyone is
playing the same game otherwise
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if they're not set, there's no
base, then we are talking past
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each other, no common bearing
and maybe playing a different
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game. So our first task is to
set the premises. And that's why
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the first session is The
Premises and here we begin at
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the starting point. What is
our present position. There are
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three possible positions:
Number One: The attitude of a
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disbelieving inquirer. The
attitude of a believing inquirer
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and the attitude of a neutral
inquirer. Note that they are all
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inquirers.
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In fact, you and I have all
three of these attitudes in us.
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And because they all are
inquiring attitudes we can flit
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from one to the other so
smoothly that we don't even
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notice the change. So we
may come to the table with one
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attitude and actually not go
to that one that we are using at
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the moment. Thus we may not
be aware of what we are really
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doing at that point. What do you
mean by these words? Here are
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some descriptions. DISBELIEVING
attitude - Dismisses the report
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Prior to thorough investigation.
BELIEVING attitude - Accepts
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the report, swallows it before
the end of the investigation
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while the INQUIRING attitude
- does not initially accept nor
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dismiss, but holds verdict
until the investigation is done.
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Here's another piece. The
DISBELIEVING attitude - focuses
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on the questions and disregards
all the fair evidence. The
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BELIEVING attitude will focus
on the evidence and disregard
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all the big questions where as
the INQUIRING attitude focuses
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on the weight of evidence
and that's all he or she can do.
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You know on this earth we really
cannot have final proof. What we
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can have, however, is the weight
of evidence. Now you and I may
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inquire with a believing or a
disbelieving attitude and think
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we are fair because it's an
inquiry. But that is not real
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true inquiry. Because most
of us whenever we delve into the
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subject we want to look for
evidence that will support our
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pre-existing stance. It
is called confirmation bias.
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And here's the definition:...
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Now how many on earth do you
think are biased? Everyone: You,
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me, everyone on planet earth is
actually biased. So if all of us
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all of us are biased don't
call anyone biased and don't be
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calling bias by anyone.
The challenge is to become an
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inquiring inquirer or a neutral
inquirer. So how do we shift
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away from our biases to really
becoming neutral? Well the first
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thing is to address and
deal with Confirmation Bias and
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here's how to it. A few points.
Number one we confess and
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acknowledge it. You and I are
biased. So what do we do with
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that? We make a decision that we
will not let that enter into our
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debate. We set it aside. In
other words we drop our previous
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beliefs and disbeliefs. But
really you can't drop it in a
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moment. What we mean to say that
we do not rise up in passionate
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defense of our own beliefs nor
do we attack the beliefs and the
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points of the opposing side.
If we do that we will avoid
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blind beliefs as well as blind
dismissal and then we can engage
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in "neutral inquiry." So what
do we mean by "neutral inquiry?"
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Here are some points.
Number one: A neutral inquirer
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always makes two
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opposing theories, never just
one. No pros and cons of just
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this side. No, he make two
opposing theories and then looks
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at both. Why do we want that?
That's to avoid what is called
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default conclusions. So what do
we mean by default. Let me ask
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you a question. When is a good
decision a bad decision? And
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when is a bad decision a
good decision? Oh you say, that
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sounds contradictory. But
really, wait. If you try to
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answer that, it might be quite
insightful. Here's why a good
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decision is a bad decision.
If the options facing you and me
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are good, better, and best but
we just chose the good. We could
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have gone for the best, but
we chose the good. That's a bad
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decision. On the other hand
likewise, if the options facing
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us are bad worse and
worst then choosing the bad
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is a good decision. In fact,
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of these three, bad, worse,
and worst the bad is the best.
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Why do we say this? Because in
the discussions that we have on
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this large topic which are
controversial we can never make
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a good decision. We can only
make bad. And what do you mean
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by bad? We mean that all the
belief systems on these topics
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have gaps, discrepancies and
and even contradictions. So the
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question really is which one
would you take for what we are
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saying with this? Just because
it looks good don't just grab to
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that and then discard the others
because the others might be
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better. And just because this
theory has some questions and
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some discrepancies don't discard
it. Because if you discard it
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you might go for something worse
In other words, hold on to both
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the sides and look at both.
The next two points are that we
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treat both equally and you give
both the same chance to win.
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Then you can be sure that the
real winner has won. And if you
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really want to get into the
nitty gritty of it then we have
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to set the criteria that we will
use for our search and for our
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discussion. So let's set the
criteria right now. We will lean
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number one on information
and evidence, not mere opinion.
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Number two: We will go for logic
and common sense, not crass
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illogic. And number three: We
will try to reason and explain
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rather than state somethings
that are absurd. Socrates said
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these words actually quoted
by Plato: Go where the argument
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leads. Don't lead the argument
where you want it to go. And
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say it again: Go where the
argument leads. Now doing that
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is not all that easy because
these are aggressive, big,
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controversial questions actually
requires solid, raw courage.
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Because you might find
something there that goes
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against what you previously
believed. And also you might
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find something there that
causes you to change your whole
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lifestyle and behavior. So
even though you choose to become
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a neutral inquirer confirmation
bias can be really hard to
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overcome. So we need help. Help
in creating an atmosphere that
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is conducive to being a neutral
inquirer right through. So what
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shall we do about creating that
atmosphere? Here's how we do it.
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We require four factors. Four
things that we will hold onto
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that will create the atmosphere.
Here are the four: Number one:
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Humility. Number two: Honesty.
Number three: Calmness and
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Number four: Respect. What do we
mean by these words? Humility:
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This is the cardinal, prime, and
most essential factor of all.
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If ever we become proud and
boastful about our own knowledge
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we've closed the door to what
we might get next. So we remain
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humble. Humble, teachable,
learning attitude, standing
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small in the face of the
vastness and grandeur of the
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universe and all the information
that it contains. How little
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we really know.
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That should make us humble. Also
somebody else next to us who has
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a lot of knowledge and who
obviously is willing to teach.
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We humbly learn
from that individual.
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Humility is number one. Honesty:
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Here's a definition: The
willingness to give credit to a
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point or argument no matter who
brings it to the table, and even
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if that credit has the
possibility of destroying my own
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previous stand or position.
Did you notice that I put my own
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name there, Subodh Pandit.
That is because that is the
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definition I gave. That is
the principle I followed when I
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was doing my search. In other
words give credit where credit
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is due and withhold credit when
it is not due. You know what I
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called it? I called it the wow
factor. You've got to say wow
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when a piece of information
that's really impressive and it
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amazes you. Don't start first
thinking, if I say how well he
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or she might get the credit
and not me. No that would not be
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real honesty, say wow. Are you
really willing to say wow, are
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you ready to do that give credit
Let's check it out. Let's do
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something to see whether we can
respond that way. You know pi
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22 over seven is an irregular
number. If you really did that
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calculation, 22 divided by seven
it would come out to 3.142 and
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then on and on and on in a very
haphazard and arbitrary manner.
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There is no pattern to those
numbers. So what psychologists
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have said let's use that series
as a test for memory. How many
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digits can a person memorize
and recite. Do you know what the
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world record is? Most people
do not look at that so we may
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not know it. Let me tell you.
But why don't you have a guess
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at what might be the world
record. A few years ago it was
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held by an Indian and then
a Japanese and then I believe
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the last one went back to an
Indian. So the last record that
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I know of pi was recited to the
70 thousandth digit before the
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first mistake was made. Did you
say wow to that? Did you give
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the credit? If you did, well
we're on the same page. Then we
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are ready to give credit
where credit is due. How about
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calmness? You know anger
and rage fights you own clear
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thinking and good judgment, not
those of your opponent! So when
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your angry what you say is not
exactly what you want to say, at
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all what you want to think. Now
sometimes during what I say in
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the next 13 segments, sometimes
I will state things that might
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sound jarring to you. Don't get
angry. Don't get upset. Here's
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what you do. Just say to
yourself, I don't agree with
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that. So the way I'm going
to address that is to get a good
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argument against that so
that my argument knocks off his
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argument. Well really that's
most welcome. So don't get upset
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And how do you get that really
good argument to knock off mine?
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It is to stay calm. Calmness
which is the result of humility
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and honesty will give the best
chance to you and to me to make
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good arguments to form a strong
side which will maybe even win
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over the other side. How
about respect? Respect is not
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agreement, not admiration.
We often use it as a synonym for
00:17:07.59\00:17:12.76
those but really respect is only
giving to others the right to
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make their own inquiry, their
own final decision without us
00:17:19.97\00:17:25.34
looking down our noses at them
and even calling them names.
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No, we uphold their
dignity at all times and we
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expect them to hold our dignity
up, for the sake of mutual
00:17:37.05\00:17:41.69
respect. So we've got to create
an atmosphere with these four:
00:17:41.72\00:17:48.63
Humility, Honesty, Calmness,
Respect. Now with these we'll
00:17:48.66\00:17:54.90
get to the big question. I call
it the great divide. A. Atheism
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says God is nonexistent and
fictitious. B. The believing
00:18:02.34\00:18:09.18
side says God is in existence
and factual. Now before we dive
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into that, there is a question
that some people ask and the
00:18:14.86\00:18:19.13
question is do we need God?
And His existence. Why not leave
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the question completely out?
What difference does it make?
00:18:25.67\00:18:28.97
What difference does it make?
Do you know the answer to that
00:18:29.00\00:18:33.31
can be twofold. Number one:
It makes no difference at all.
00:18:33.34\00:18:38.31
And number two: It makes a huge
difference. Both these responses
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depend on a big if. So here's
the first if: If our human life
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let's say a hundred years, is
the sum total of our existence,
00:18:51.13\00:18:55.83
what lies beyond it is
absolute nothingness, total
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oblivion. Then nobody needs God.
Do you know that both the sides
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agree to this. It's just plain
common sense. So I'm going to
00:19:07.01\00:19:11.25
read to you now two statements
from each of the sides. Here's
00:19:11.28\00:19:17.69
Quentin Smith, an atheist, a
confirmed atheist. Look at his
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words. He wrote this in a book
Theism, Atheism and Big Bang
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Cosmology. The only reasonable
belief is that we came from
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nothing, by nothing and for
nothing. On the other side, King
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Solomon, a believer, who wrote
out in a religious book these
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words: What happens to the fool
will happen to me also...the
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fate of the humans and the fate
of animals is the same; as one
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dies, so dies the other. Look,
nobody needs God. We live or die
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like a king or a fool. Nobody
needs God to live or die like an
00:19:58.73\00:20:04.53
animal or a human. The other
side: If the supernatural realm
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is real and God does exist then
a utopia of some kind called a
00:20:11.74\00:20:17.38
heaven or a paradise or nirvana
could be a reasonable theory.
00:20:17.41\00:20:24.02
And if that is the actual goal
of our life and not what Quentin
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Smith said, well then you and
I will have to agree to at least
00:20:29.86\00:20:35.13
two things. Number One: We
as humans are inherently totally
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incapable of getting there.
Number Two: We need God in this
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life to show us the path of how
to get there and also to provide
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for us when we get there. We
can't take anything from here to
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there. So we do need God for
that. So finally do we need God?
00:20:57.79\00:21:05.16
No, if the supernatural realm is
false and a fictitious and yes
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absolutely yes. If that realm
does exist and reaching there
00:21:13.03\00:21:16.67
is our goal. So now the
pertinent question. Is the
00:21:16.71\00:21:22.11
supernatural realm factual
and true? Does God truly exist?
00:21:22.14\00:21:28.58
Getting to that.
Here the challenge:...
00:21:28.62\00:21:32.19
Give them all the benefits and
if you're honest well take away
00:21:51.51\00:21:57.45
all the credits that are not
supposed to be given and when
00:21:57.48\00:22:00.62
you do it fairly you and I
will be sure then that the real
00:22:00.65\00:22:05.65
winner has won. And then we can
give evidence for what we are
00:22:05.69\00:22:10.73
have just found. One of the ways
is the implement the Pan Process
00:22:10.76\00:22:18.07
Now I'm sure you haven't heard
of that Pan Process. So let me
00:22:18.10\00:22:21.47
tell you what it means, what
it says. Here's the Pan Process:
00:22:21.50\00:22:25.77
This is a method of inquiry that
examines both options equally.
00:22:25.81\00:22:32.65
What do we mean by that? What
does the word pan mean? Number
00:22:32.68\00:22:38.32
one: It means going across. So
like we said earlier both stay
00:22:38.35\00:22:42.42
on only one side, go across
to the other, like Pan American
00:22:42.46\00:22:47.63
Airlines. It goes across America
You don't stay in one place.
00:22:47.66\00:22:51.10
Number Two: Pan also means
sifting. They panned for gold
00:22:51.13\00:22:58.84
way back in the 1840s during the
gold rush. They took a pan and
00:22:58.87\00:23:06.21
dipped it into the water, pulled
out some rocks and hopefully
00:23:06.25\00:23:10.29
some nuggets and the force
of the water would take away the
00:23:10.32\00:23:14.09
lighter rocks and keep the
heavier nuggets in the pan.
00:23:14.12\00:23:18.36
Panning, sifting, choosing
the valuable, letting go of the
00:23:18.39\00:23:25.10
ordinary. Pan also happens to
be the first three letters of my
00:23:25.13\00:23:29.67
family name. Now you know
where I got that word from, Pan
00:23:29.70\00:23:34.18
Process, and formulated that
so that I could use it in my
00:23:34.21\00:23:40.52
search, so that I could show
to myself that I was going to be
00:23:40.55\00:23:46.99
fair to both the topics, to
both the theories, to both the
00:23:47.02\00:23:53.50
claims. So what does it
look like? Here's what it looked
00:23:53.53\00:23:56.56
like. The Pan Process requires
four columns of argument. One: A
00:23:56.60\00:24:03.81
pro. And second, a con for each
of the sides. God exists, God
00:24:03.84\00:24:10.58
does not exist. Pro and con,
two columns. Pro and con on this
00:24:10.61\00:24:15.02
side and another two columns;
four columns. For example:
00:24:15.05\00:24:19.39
Column one would be arguments
for A - Atheism. Column two:
00:24:19.42\00:24:25.09
Arguments against the believing
side, against B. Column three:
00:24:25.13\00:24:29.96
Arguments for belief for the
B for the believing side. And
00:24:30.00\00:24:35.87
column four: Arguments against A
against atheistic side. So when
00:24:35.90\00:24:42.18
you do this I believe you and
I can look at this and we can
00:24:42.21\00:24:47.95
agree that this is really a very
fair process. We are looking at
00:24:47.98\00:24:54.52
both the sides. And when we
do that we shouldn't try to push
00:24:54.56\00:24:58.63
down one to then try to
pull up the other. Just let the
00:24:58.66\00:25:03.93
arguments speak for themselves.
So that is what we will do.
00:25:03.97\00:25:08.70
We'll do the Pan Process. So
now. What have we said so far?
00:25:08.74\00:25:15.01
The premises have to be set. If
we don't set the premises then
00:25:15.04\00:25:21.38
our words can fly past
one another and we will be on
00:25:21.42\00:25:24.85
different wave lengths. So
we set the premises. And this is
00:25:24.89\00:25:28.19
what we said the premises would
look like: First we assess our
00:25:28.22\00:25:31.99
present attitude: Am I
a disbelieving inquirer, a
00:25:32.03\00:25:37.47
believing inquirer or a neutral
inquirer? And then we confess
00:25:37.50\00:25:43.17
and put aside confirmation bias.
Our biases. And choose to remain
00:25:43.20\00:25:49.64
a neutral inquirer, an inquiring
inquirer, not a believing
00:25:49.68\00:25:55.05
inquirer, not a disbelieving
inquirer. And then we implement
00:25:55.08\00:25:59.92
the traits or
the characteristics
00:25:59.95\00:26:02.39
of a neutral inquirer. And
what are those? We always look
00:26:02.42\00:26:07.20
for at least two options,
two theories and we look for the
00:26:07.23\00:26:13.37
pros and cons of this and the
pros and cons of that meaning
00:26:13.40\00:26:17.41
we give both the same chance to
win. And if you really want to
00:26:17.44\00:26:22.24
do that well then we have to
set the criteria and we set the
00:26:22.28\00:26:26.61
criteria. You and I did. We will
go for evidence, for reason, for
00:26:26.65\00:26:34.39
logic. Those are things that
will set the criteria. And once
00:26:34.42\00:26:38.69
we have set the criteria then
we will create an atmosphere
00:26:38.73\00:26:42.66
that will help us remain in
the inquiring mode at all times.
00:26:42.70\00:26:49.17
It is made up of number one:
Humility. Number two: Honesty.
00:26:49.20\00:26:55.58
Number three: Calmness and
number four: Respect. With this
00:26:55.61\00:27:02.82
With this we will demonstrate
that we will do it fairly by
00:27:02.85\00:27:06.72
implementing the Pan Process
which looks at both the options
00:27:06.76\00:27:11.79
equally. You know what? We will
do the Pan Process in the very
00:27:11.83\00:27:17.77
next section and segment.
So keep coming back because in
00:27:17.80\00:27:24.57
the next section we'll
talk about the Pan Process.
00:27:24.61\00:27:27.24
If you have enjoyed the
presentation with Dr. Subodh
00:27:27.28\00:27:32.05
Pandit and wish to watch more of
this unique 13 part series for
00:27:32.08\00:27:35.72
free online visit the website
GodFactOrFiction.com. That's
00:27:35.75\00:27:41.52
GodFactOrFiction.com. If
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fascinating series on DVD it is
now available from White Horse
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Media:...
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Dr. Subodh Pandit has written
two eye-opening books entitled
00:27:55.10\00:28:00.91
Come Search With Me: Does God
Really Exist? and Come Search
00:28:00.94\00:28:05.01
With Me: The Weight of Evidence
which further explore the topics
00:28:05.05\00:28:08.45
of evolution, theism, atheism,
and religion. To order these
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books:...
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¤ ¤
00:28:29.77\00:28:31.11