Welcome back to
this fascinating journey,
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Evolution Impossible,
where we're exploring whether
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Darwin's theory of evolution
could have really happened.
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I'm Dr. Sven  string.
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Maybe at some stage in your
life when you stopped to really
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think about what was needed
to happen for evolution to work,
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you suddenly wondered
if it was really possible.
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You might have felt really
alone at that point in time
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because there are so
many scientists that say
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that evolution is a fact.
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In this journey, Dr.
John Aston has been confirming
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that you are not
alone, and he has provided us
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with a cumulative case for why
evolution really is impossible.
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It's also encouraging
to know that Dr. Ashton
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is not alone either.
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There are many
other scientists who have
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rejected evolution as well.
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Back here in the
studio with me is Tim Turner.
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Good to have you
back here with us.
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We've also got Morgan
Vincent, my good friend.
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Glad to have you with
us on this conversation.
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And Harley Southwell.
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Glad to have your intriguing
and inquiring mind as well.
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John, you actually embarked on
a project a number of years ago
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which was to contact
at least fifty scientists
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to find out their
view of evolution.
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Can you describe to us
the process to which you
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entered into and
engagements in this project?
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Sure.
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One of the things, I
was just shopping for a book
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actually on
radiometric dating in a bookshop
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that sold a lot of
creationist material.
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And a person came out
from the back room and said,
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"Oh, I recognize that voice."
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And he said to me, "John,
look, I hope you didn't mind,
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but we actually quoted
your name at a conference."
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~ Could be a bad
thing. - Well that's right.
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I was a bit wanting to
find out what's going on.
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And he said, "What
happened was," he said,
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"we presented a seminar
on the evidence for creation
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at Macquarie
University in Sidney."
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And the director
of the Sidney museum
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showed up and said,
"Well look, I don't believe
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that any practicing
scientist with a PhD
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would believe in a
literal six day creation."
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And they said, "Well
there's so and so who works at
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the Atomic Energy Commission,
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and there's John
Ashton, the industrial chemist."
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And they said, "So I hope you
didn't mind using your name."
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And I said, "No, no, I'm
happy to witness for the Lord."
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And as I was going forth
a little later, I thought,
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well why not write to
scientists who reject evolution
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who believe in the
literal six day creation
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and actually ask
them why, why they do.
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No strings
attached. Just ask they why.
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And so I contacted a
few friends that I knew,
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a few professors around
at different universities,
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and they told me
about colleagues.
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I emailed them; fortunately
email had started up back then,
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because this was
in the late 1990's.
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And I contacted
over 80 scientists.
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And I got, most of
them were happy to agree.
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And I got well over 70 replies.
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Now what I did was, I
had a look through these.
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I selected, I wanted as many
women scientists as possible.
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So if a woman sent an article,
it automatically got in.
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~ So a bit of gender balance.
- Yeah, a bit of gender balance.
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But the other thing was too,
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I wanted the
book to be affordable.
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And I had a 120,000
word limit on the book.
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Now some of the scientists
contributed very good articles,
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but they might have
been 5000 words or more.
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And I wanted 50 scientists.
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Because that was a
very strong number.
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I thought, if I can have 50.
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So...
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~ I hope you had a few
engineers in that number.
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I did, yes.
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The very first one was a
top American engineer who
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headed the under water
propulsion research lab
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for the U.S. Navy actually.
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Yeah, a brilliant engineer.
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And so, the book was
put together essentially
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50 scientists' articles that
fitted into that 120,000 words.
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And I think I'm only
about, you know, 20 or 30
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words short of that limit.
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So some of my detractors
say I picked the best arguments.
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But no, it was whether or not
they fitted in that timeline.
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Because they were all
very good and a huge variety.
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Now some time later Richard
Dawkins did a review of my book.
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And one of his
criticisms was, "Well, you know,
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these guys have been trained
at church-based universities.
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Of course they're going
to believe in creation."
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But really, that was
not a fair comment because
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only 10 of the 50 had trained
at a church-based university.
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All the rest were
trained at secular universities.
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It's pretty amazing that
you caught the attention of
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Richard Dawkins
at Oxford University.
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Yes, well the
evidence that they provided,
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a lot of very
high profile scientists
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contributed to the book.
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Like people who were head of
quite prestigious laboratories.
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They had qualifications
where they had trained at the
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best universities in
the world, and so forth.
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And so, these are top scientists
that contributed to this book.
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So it's a pretty
amazing network of creationist
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scientists in the world.
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Yes, well
there's a lot more now.
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I mean, that was 20 years ago.
The book came out 20 years ago.
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Maybe your book
has been influential,
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leading more to
accept the Bible.
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Well, it has been
sited at secular conferences
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on science and philosophy,
and faith and science,
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this sort of thing, yes.
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And what sort of ranking
does it have on Amazon.com?
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Oh, well it has, in
the area of creation books,
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it's often in the top 20
books still selling on Amazon.
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This is 20 years
after it first came out.
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So that's really, really good.
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And it's gone
through many printings.
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It's been translated into
German, Italian, Korean...
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~ Chinese, yes?
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...Spanish, not
Chinese as far as I know.
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Portuguese.
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So quite a number
of different languages.
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And the good thing is, you
have actually included some of
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those scientific, the
reasons from a number of those
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scientists in your
book, Evolution Impossible.
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And so, what we wanted
to do today is just kind of
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introduce some of
those scientists to the panel
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and to the
viewing audience as well.
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Tim, I just wanted to ask
you, was there any scientist
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in the book,
Evolution Impossible,
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that really stood out to you?
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And what really
inspired you with their
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case against evolution?
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Well there's really two.
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I was a bit greedy, but...
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~ You had 50 to choose from.
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The first one is Doctor,
I think it's Werner Gitt.
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I don't know, but his, I guess,
work with information theory;
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him being an actual sort of
authority on information stuff.
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His look at the different levels
of information that there are.
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So the first one is
really basically it's just,
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you know, if you
would take a Scrabble bag
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and drop it on the floor,
it would still be information,
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but it wouldn't make any sense.
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It doesn't
transmit anything to anyone.
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But the more complex levels,
there's five different levels,
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the most complex
level was something that
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transmits a message with
an expectation of a response.
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And I thought, wow,
that's really interesting.
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He goes on to say
that's pretty much what DNA is.
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It is the highest level
of information that we know.
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And then that was
kind of combined with
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the next guy in your
book, Dr. Andrew McIntosh.
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And some of his work
was really interesting.
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I want to quote, if that's okay,
because it's a little bit hard
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to remember all the details.
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But he says, "The
biological structures
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contain coded instructions
that are not defined
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by the matter and
energy of the molecules
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carrying this information."
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And it made me really think.
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It's like, well, where does
the information then come from?
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And he goes on to
say that it's got to
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come from outside of that.
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So it was like,
that for me really just,
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like, when you're talking
about that specific information,
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that was something I
thought, these guys have
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really done their due diligence.
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And like, they're being
honest with the evidence
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that they've got
in front of them.
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I was kind of wondering though,
is there any specific reason
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why the information has to come
from outside the cell itself?
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Well, yes, because it has
to come from an intelligence.
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And I think that's one of the
points of Dr. McIntosh's paper;
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that energy, for
example, can't somehow produce
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meaningful information.
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So this was a hopeful
that earlier on some of the
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pro-evolutionists thought maybe
sunlight somehow could stimulate
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information, could
stimulate some sort of design,
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that some sort of
energy system came in.
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And essentially
what he's saying is that,
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no, the material world;
energy, matter, and so forth,
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can't produce by
itself intelligent design.
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It can't encode by
itself information.
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That code has to come.
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So the sun out there can't
suddenly send us a message,
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"I am 93 million miles away."
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You know.
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It just can't do that.
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And there's nothing out
there. That's information.
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It's actually sort of
non-material or abstract
00:10:00.93\00:10:03.70
as opposed to the material.
00:10:03.80\00:10:05.20
So in all the cases, I
think it was mentioned earlier,
00:10:05.23\00:10:07.94
it comes from an outside source.
00:10:07.97\00:10:11.01
An intelligent outside
source already operating.
00:10:11.67\00:10:14.84
Powerful evidence for
the existence of God actually
00:10:15.04\00:10:17.68
when you read his paper.
00:10:17.71\00:10:19.05
And there's a whole area
in science in the community
00:10:19.75\00:10:23.28
called SETI, the Search for
Extraterrestrial Intelligence,
00:10:23.32\00:10:26.89
where they're looking
for information coming
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through radio
waves to the earth.
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And if you find that
information being transmitted,
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the natural conclusion is that
there's intelligence out there.
00:10:37.87\00:10:42.34
And so, Stephen Meyer
would say in his book,
00:10:42.44\00:10:45.47
Signature in the Cell,
if we find that similar
00:10:45.67\00:10:48.08
kind of encoded
information in the cell,
00:10:48.11\00:10:50.71
it's a signature, it's an
indicator to point towards
00:10:50.91\00:10:55.18
an intelligent
Creator and Designer as well.
00:10:55.22\00:10:58.05
- It's really quite
amazing. - It is, yeah.
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Morgan, how about yourself?
00:11:01.26\00:11:02.76
Was there anybody that
really stood out to you
00:11:03.32\00:11:05.69
among this
collection of 50 scientists?
00:11:05.73\00:11:08.56
There was, yeah, there
was Professor David Gower,
00:11:08.60\00:11:11.70
professor at the
University of London.
00:11:11.90\00:11:14.10
And he brings out
three major points
00:11:14.14\00:11:16.60
of why he refutes the
evolutionary theory and model.
00:11:17.01\00:11:20.58
The first one has to do with
the isotopic dating method of,
00:11:21.08\00:11:24.98
you know, fossils, age
of matter, and whatnot.
00:11:25.01\00:11:28.08
~ Radiometric dating?
00:11:28.12\00:11:29.45
~ Yeah, as well.
00:11:29.48\00:11:30.82
And so, I found that
quite fascinating to observe,
00:11:30.85\00:11:32.89
that when he looks at all the
evidence, when he observes it
00:11:32.92\00:11:36.86
and took research in that,
he couldn't find it matching up.
00:11:36.89\00:11:40.60
The second one is
what he would refer to as
00:11:40.96\00:11:43.40
the basic building blocks.
00:11:43.43\00:11:44.90
And again, he just finds order,
he finds intelligence with that.
00:11:45.20\00:11:50.14
And following on what
you had mentioned, Tim,
00:11:50.17\00:11:52.41
that again, it just
can't happen per chance.
00:11:52.44\00:11:55.24
The third point that
Professor Gower brings up
00:11:56.01\00:11:59.15
is his own study, after
many decades of studying.
00:11:59.25\00:12:02.48
And although I haven't studied
to the same level he has,
00:12:02.52\00:12:05.42
what I do resonate
with him, though, is
00:12:05.95\00:12:08.12
as he was, I try to be as well;
00:12:08.22\00:12:11.16
that when I'm intellectually
honest with myself,
00:12:11.19\00:12:13.46
like Professor Gower,
when we see all things around
00:12:13.50\00:12:17.67
in the world, we see
order, we observe design.
00:12:17.70\00:12:22.04
We observe this, and have
to come to the conclusion,
00:12:22.07\00:12:25.94
well if there's
order, if there's design,
00:12:25.97\00:12:28.28
then there's a mind behind this.
00:12:28.31\00:12:32.38
And so, in my field of studying,
00:12:32.61\00:12:35.38
undertaking post
graduate studies now,
00:12:35.85\00:12:38.65
you know, I can
see that as well.
00:12:38.75\00:12:40.72
In all matter of life, that
there is that design as well.
00:12:40.76\00:12:43.32
So a question, if
I may, Dr. Ashton.
00:12:43.36\00:12:45.76
A professor like Dr.
Gower, or even others
00:12:45.79\00:12:49.96
in your book or around
the world, they undertake
00:12:50.00\00:12:52.50
such a pursuit of
study in whatever field
00:12:52.53\00:12:55.77
with such purpose and
intent, how do you perceive
00:12:55.80\00:12:59.64
those who do study with such
purpose, then coming to the end
00:12:59.67\00:13:03.98
of their study and finding that
there is no purpose to life?
00:13:04.18\00:13:08.68
Whereas the 50 scientists
have taken that pursuit of study
00:13:09.32\00:13:13.89
with purpose and
have found purpose.
00:13:13.92\00:13:15.86
There's this almost, this
split, this fork in the road
00:13:16.09\00:13:19.16
where they pursue
their study with purpose,
00:13:19.19\00:13:21.36
and then some do find
purpose and then some don't.
00:13:21.40\00:13:24.23
No, that's true.
00:13:25.10\00:13:26.84
I mean, those scientists
are atheists and they're
00:13:26.87\00:13:30.81
content with that, that
this world is all there is.
00:13:30.84\00:13:34.14
I think one of the
things that just comes to mind,
00:13:34.51\00:13:36.95
as I mix around in
the academic circles,
00:13:36.98\00:13:39.55
there are probably a lot
more scientists who actually
00:13:40.82\00:13:43.92
believe God and they just
haven't confronted the evolution
00:13:43.95\00:13:49.72
issue as such.
00:13:49.76\00:13:51.99
They've heard about it, but they
are not working in that field.
00:13:52.23\00:13:54.70
They might be working in
some other field of biology,
00:13:54.73\00:13:56.93
but it doesn't come
into the evolutionary aspect.
00:13:56.97\00:13:59.77
Or they might be working
in, you know, engineering,
00:13:59.80\00:14:02.00
or medicine, or biomedical
research, these sort of areas.
00:14:02.04\00:14:06.27
And so, it's sort of
like, "Well, that's there.
00:14:06.71\00:14:10.95
I'm not going there.
00:14:10.98\00:14:12.41
I believe in
God, I go to church.
00:14:12.45\00:14:14.52
I'm doing my research,
and I'm doing it well."
00:14:14.55\00:14:16.65
And I think we'll find there's
a large number of scientists
00:14:17.05\00:14:19.65
like that because they've gone
through the education system.
00:14:19.69\00:14:22.39
In order to get their
degree they passed the exams
00:14:22.62\00:14:25.69
and had to
learn about evolution,
00:14:25.73\00:14:27.36
but then they've
moved on into other fields
00:14:27.40\00:14:29.40
that aren't
directly related to that.
00:14:29.43\00:14:31.40
But they haven't gone
into the area to research it.
00:14:31.80\00:14:34.64
Now Professor David
Gower, he was in the area where
00:14:34.67\00:14:37.21
he discovered some of
the human hormones, you know,
00:14:37.24\00:14:40.08
so he's a world
famous biochemist.
00:14:40.11\00:14:42.44
So he's right at that frontier,
particularly in mechanisms.
00:14:42.48\00:14:46.28
And also he was very
interested, as a Christian,
00:14:46.31\00:14:49.22
to delve into this.
00:14:49.78\00:14:51.42
And I think it's just a
shame, there are certainly many
00:14:51.55\00:14:53.96
top scientists that
they never find God.
00:14:53.99\00:14:57.49
That's really sad.
00:14:58.39\00:14:59.73
What about you, Harley?
00:15:00.76\00:15:02.10
Was there anybody who
really stood out to you
00:15:02.13\00:15:04.33
as you read this book?
00:15:04.37\00:15:05.70
Dr. Ker C. Thomson,
the former director of
00:15:05.77\00:15:08.07
the U.S. Air Force
Terrestrial Sciences Laboratory.
00:15:08.10\00:15:10.74
He made a very interesting
point, when I was reading
00:15:10.94\00:15:13.07
through the book,
about how evolution
00:15:13.11\00:15:16.21
cannot be in agreement with the
second law of thermodynamics.
00:15:16.51\00:15:23.15
And basically the
second law of thermodynamics
00:15:23.18\00:15:25.42
simply teaching that
we observe everything
00:15:25.72\00:15:28.32
to slowly be
breaking down over time.
00:15:28.36\00:15:30.16
If you put something
out into just a vacuum,
00:15:30.19\00:15:32.09
over time it will degenerate.
00:15:32.13\00:15:33.76
It will not become more complex,
it will fall apart instead.
00:15:33.80\00:15:37.47
And I think it's
something we've talked about,
00:15:37.57\00:15:39.53
how there's no added
DNA coming through mutation.
00:15:39.57\00:15:43.47
It's all stuff falling apart.
00:15:43.51\00:15:44.84
We look out in the universe
and we see stars burning up
00:15:44.87\00:15:47.41
rather than burning in.
00:15:47.44\00:15:48.88
And all these
different kinds of things.
00:15:48.91\00:15:50.78
And so, he's making a very
good point about, you know, this
00:15:51.18\00:15:54.38
random event
creating order isn't possible
00:15:55.88\00:15:59.52
when we observe the
second law of thermodynamics.
00:15:59.55\00:16:01.46
A scientific law
which is very well founded.
00:16:01.49\00:16:06.26
But I also have a question that
I was thinking about as well.
00:16:06.36\00:16:09.63
If we look out in the universe,
and we look at our own planet,
00:16:09.83\00:16:12.90
and look at our own
bodies, and so on and so forth,
00:16:13.10\00:16:15.20
and we see the
second law of thermodynamics
00:16:15.24\00:16:17.47
in action of things breaking
down and not necessarily
00:16:17.51\00:16:21.08
becoming more beautiful, but
becoming more ugly over time,
00:16:21.11\00:16:24.41
why would a loving God
create that kind of law
00:16:24.71\00:16:28.48
in the universe that
would slowly cause everything
00:16:28.52\00:16:30.39
to fall apart if God is suppose
to be the Creator and Sustainer?
00:16:30.42\00:16:33.09
Yes, so the Bible, as
God is revealed to people
00:16:34.26\00:16:39.26
that really believe in Him,
such as Paul, when he wrote that
00:16:39.36\00:16:42.30
He is currently
sustaining everything.
00:16:42.56\00:16:45.47
But we also know that God talks
about the consequences of evil
00:16:47.24\00:16:51.87
and the effects of evil that
have been allowed to happen.
00:16:52.11\00:16:57.35
Because that was man's choice.
00:16:57.38\00:16:58.98
Man chose to disbelieve God and
to believe Satan in the fall.
00:16:59.01\00:17:04.65
And essentially the
bottom line is that by choosing
00:17:04.69\00:17:08.39
to believe Satan over
God, it essentially meant that
00:17:08.42\00:17:12.63
they accused
God of being a liar.
00:17:12.66\00:17:14.86
Now if you're a liar,
it's very hard to ever
00:17:14.90\00:17:17.97
prove yourself,
because whatever you say is...
00:17:18.00\00:17:21.90
~ Considered false. -
Yeah, considered false.
00:17:21.94\00:17:23.94
Or could be, you know. You
don't know whether you are.
00:17:23.97\00:17:26.17
So God had to prove it.
00:17:26.21\00:17:27.68
Of course, we know He
demonstrated what He was like
00:17:27.71\00:17:31.41
through Him coming to earth as a
human and living as Jesus Christ
00:17:31.71\00:17:35.28
and allowing humans
to put Him to death.
00:17:35.32\00:17:38.59
Now we can see then
that God at that time said,
00:17:38.79\00:17:42.42
okay, when we hand over
domain to this sort of power
00:17:42.46\00:17:46.93
that no longer is
based on love and truth,
00:17:46.96\00:17:49.63
then we have other
effects take place.
00:17:50.03\00:17:53.20
And I think that
corresponds to the law of...
00:17:53.23\00:17:56.10
Well,
thermodynamics is part of that.
00:17:56.37\00:17:58.57
Now whether that
was there in Eden,
00:17:58.61\00:18:00.68
it probably was to a degree.
00:18:00.71\00:18:02.64
Because it can drive
thermodynamic processes.
00:18:02.68\00:18:04.91
But God can continually
replenish things as well.
00:18:05.15\00:18:09.08
So we've got a
supernatural situation.
00:18:09.12\00:18:11.62
So it's almost like
God is saying, "Well look,
00:18:11.65\00:18:13.82
I'm still there, I'm
still sustaining everything,
00:18:14.56\00:18:18.49
but I'm just withdrawing
a little bit and letting...
00:18:18.76\00:18:22.13
You've made these choices,
00:18:22.16\00:18:23.50
I'm letting it follow
on with their choice."
00:18:23.67\00:18:25.50
So it's like with a child,
as you're teaching a child,
00:18:25.53\00:18:29.37
they're going to be disobedient.
00:18:30.01\00:18:31.57
And there's times where
you absolutely stop them.
00:18:31.77\00:18:33.98
You don't want them
to run out in the road.
00:18:34.01\00:18:35.34
But there's other times when
you say, "Well if, you know,
00:18:35.38\00:18:38.61
you continue to play like that,
you're going to fall off that
00:18:38.65\00:18:41.42
and you're going
to hurt yourself,
00:18:41.45\00:18:42.78
but it's only going
to be a little way."
00:18:42.82\00:18:44.15
And you let them
learn the consequences.
00:18:44.19\00:18:47.36
But at the same time,
you're limiting how far
00:18:47.39\00:18:50.66
to make sure they
don't hurt themselves.
00:18:50.69\00:18:52.19
But you want them
to learn some lessons.
00:18:52.23\00:18:53.80
And I think the whole
universe is learning a lesson
00:18:53.83\00:18:56.97
that when we turn to
evil, this is what happens.
00:18:57.00\00:19:00.40
But I mean, I don't know.
They're only thoughts, you know.
00:19:01.17\00:19:04.04
We don't know.
00:19:04.77\00:19:06.11
Another person that you
mentioned in your book is
00:19:06.14\00:19:07.91
a geophysicist by the
name of John Baumgardner.
00:19:07.94\00:19:11.18
And he worked at the very famous
Los Alamos National Laboratory.
00:19:11.51\00:19:16.55
But he made a comment, or
used a term, I should say,
00:19:17.42\00:19:21.16
the "Einstein gulf."
00:19:21.19\00:19:23.63
Could you explain what that is,
00:19:24.19\00:19:25.56
because that
sounds quite intriguing?
00:19:25.59\00:19:27.30
Yes, well it's very
similar to the paper
00:19:27.60\00:19:30.27
that was referred to
earlier by Dr. Andy McIntosh.
00:19:30.30\00:19:34.17
And that is
essentially that material things
00:19:34.40\00:19:38.97
can't carry the
concept of abstract ideas.
00:19:39.31\00:19:44.75
And so, a rock can't tell
you that it's on the ground.
00:19:45.25\00:19:50.42
Or a rock can't
tell you that it's hot.
00:19:50.45\00:19:53.22
Or something like this.
00:19:53.66\00:19:55.62
And so, there's an
idea of communication.
00:19:55.72\00:19:59.26
- Another one... ~ Of
course, it can be hot.
00:19:59.46\00:20:01.23
- It can be hot. - It
can't tell you it's hot.
00:20:01.26\00:20:04.10
So it can have
physical properties.
00:20:04.13\00:20:05.63
But it can't communicate this.
00:20:05.83\00:20:07.40
So what it's saying is
that when we use language,
00:20:07.44\00:20:11.27
and so we've got, say,
the word here, "evolution,"
00:20:11.31\00:20:13.31
written in English, so it
involves little letters, right.
00:20:13.34\00:20:16.28
Those letters are written in
ink on this bit of paper here.
00:20:16.31\00:20:20.02
And they're
physical molecules, as such,
00:20:20.28\00:20:23.49
but they can't
actually say anything.
00:20:23.75\00:20:26.39
Those molecules
can't say anything.
00:20:26.42\00:20:29.36
There's a gulf.
00:20:29.46\00:20:30.79
What it is, it's
an abstract thing.
00:20:30.83\00:20:32.33
My mind looks at those
symbols, and in my mind
00:20:32.36\00:20:35.96
I read that and I say
there's a message there
00:20:36.00\00:20:39.03
that is saying that
evolution is impossible.
00:20:39.13\00:20:42.40
And so, that's a
very abstract thing.
00:20:42.77\00:20:44.84
And so, what it's essentially
saying, what Einstein is
00:20:44.87\00:20:47.21
essentially saying is
that in the theory of evolution
00:20:47.24\00:20:51.11
it works on chemical mutations,
it works on material things.
00:20:51.15\00:20:55.32
Those material things
can't develop or communicate
00:20:56.05\00:21:01.29
a concept of information.
00:21:01.56\00:21:04.29
And there can never be...
They can't spontaneously...
00:21:04.99\00:21:08.56
Material things
don't have any property
00:21:08.60\00:21:11.40
that encodes intelligence
and design, all these things.
00:21:11.43\00:21:14.90
Because these
are abstract things.
00:21:14.94\00:21:16.81
Design is an abstract thing.
00:21:17.01\00:21:18.64
You know, when you
design your house, you're maybe
00:21:18.84\00:21:21.64
going to have a house
built, and you have an idea,
00:21:21.68\00:21:24.05
"I'd like the bedroom
there, and the bathroom there,"
00:21:24.08\00:21:26.38
and so forth,
these are abstract ideas.
00:21:26.41\00:21:28.28
They're not real. It
hasn't been built yet.
00:21:28.32\00:21:29.88
But you can picture
it and you can make it.
00:21:29.98\00:21:31.85
That's an abstract. And
then you can communicate it.
00:21:31.89\00:21:34.26
You can communicate it
with those words, you know,
00:21:34.29\00:21:36.69
"I want the bathroom upstairs."
00:21:36.73\00:21:38.69
You know, and so
you get a message,
00:21:38.89\00:21:40.60
and that can go across
to the builder who can say,
00:21:40.80\00:21:43.06
"Yes, I can do that.
00:21:43.10\00:21:44.43
I can put the
bathroom upstairs."
00:21:44.47\00:21:45.87
And so we are communicating.
00:21:46.07\00:21:47.47
But that's nothing to
do with the air molecules
00:21:47.50\00:21:50.21
that are coming out of my mouth,
vibrating, carrying sound,
00:21:50.51\00:21:53.88
vibrating off the ear
drums, connecting little nerves
00:21:53.91\00:21:56.61
sending a message to the brain.
00:21:56.64\00:21:58.05
That's all material things.
00:21:58.08\00:21:59.55
But it's transmitting a concept.
00:21:59.75\00:22:01.55
And that's what
they're saying; there's a gulf.
00:22:01.58\00:22:03.25
And the evolution
model is pure material.
00:22:03.72\00:22:07.56
It's the
materialistic worldview.
00:22:07.59\00:22:09.89
So this is the, you
know, the Einstein gulf.
00:22:10.29\00:22:12.86
And it gets us into this
non-material side of things,
00:22:12.89\00:22:16.33
which is really fascinating.
00:22:16.36\00:22:17.70
It's the God side
of things. Yeah, cool.
00:22:17.73\00:22:20.54
So having read through all
of these 50 or 70 responses
00:22:20.84\00:22:25.21
from these scientists, did you
pick any themes coming through
00:22:25.24\00:22:29.54
that, you know, really
kind of unified all these
00:22:29.58\00:22:33.62
scientists' reasoning's with
regards to rejecting evolution
00:22:33.65\00:22:38.29
and heading towards belief
in God, or believing in God?
00:22:38.32\00:22:41.72
It's interesting, I think they
all had certainly very common
00:22:42.19\00:22:45.73
interest in science.
00:22:45.76\00:22:48.33
They had very strong scientific
reasons for believing in God
00:22:48.43\00:22:51.93
as well as strong faith reasons.
00:22:51.97\00:22:53.94
But maybe you meant to ask the
question to the audience there.
00:22:54.04\00:22:57.77
I'm sorry.
00:22:57.81\00:22:59.14
Go for it.
00:22:59.17\00:23:00.51
~ So any other questions
that you might have with regards
00:23:00.54\00:23:02.54
to these scientists and their
reasons for rejecting evolution?
00:23:02.58\00:23:07.05
~ So there was the
point made earlier about
00:23:07.08\00:23:10.59
Richard Dawkins'
response to your book,
00:23:10.62\00:23:12.65
saying that, you
know, these scientists came
00:23:12.69\00:23:16.22
from faith-based institutions
where they earned their
00:23:16.26\00:23:21.80
degrees and PhD's, and so forth.
00:23:21.83\00:23:23.63
But you said that wasn't
the case for all of them.
00:23:23.73\00:23:26.27
But how many of them
really may have been growing up
00:23:26.43\00:23:29.10
in a faith, and then have
maybe taken a confirmation
00:23:29.14\00:23:33.07
bias into science?
00:23:33.11\00:23:34.44
Or are we seeing scientists
who are coming in atheistic
00:23:34.98\00:23:39.31
seeing design and then deciding
to believe in a Creator?
00:23:39.35\00:23:42.12
Sure, so in order to
answer that question,
00:23:42.15\00:23:46.65
I actually went a step further.
00:23:46.69\00:23:48.82
And what I did was, I wrote
to scientists around the world
00:23:48.99\00:23:52.89
who I heard were
Christians and I asked them,
00:23:53.40\00:23:56.33
"Why do you believe in God,
00:23:56.36\00:23:58.63
in the miracles of the
Bible, answers to prayers,
00:23:58.83\00:24:02.14
and the literal
resurrection of Jesus Christ?"
00:24:02.17\00:24:06.24
And again, I
got these responses.
00:24:06.78\00:24:10.88
And one of the conditions
to contribute was that
00:24:10.91\00:24:13.68
you had to be educated
at a secular university,
00:24:14.05\00:24:17.09
and taught at a
secular university as well.
00:24:17.12\00:24:20.26
And a number of those people
actually became Christians
00:24:20.66\00:24:24.39
while they were
studying at university.
00:24:24.43\00:24:26.29
And they gave their
personal testimony there.
00:24:27.00\00:24:30.43
And so, the book came
out as, The God Factor,
00:24:30.87\00:24:35.10
published by Harper Collins.
00:24:35.14\00:24:36.81
It's still
available under the title,
00:24:37.41\00:24:39.77
On the Seventh Day, as
a sequel to, In Six Days.
00:24:39.87\00:24:44.01
But that's an
amazing book there, because
00:24:44.11\00:24:46.31
all these
scientists had that background,
00:24:46.35\00:24:48.32
educated in
secular universities,
00:24:48.35\00:24:50.12
had academic
positions, tenured positions,
00:24:50.22\00:24:53.15
in secular universities.
00:24:53.19\00:24:54.62
And many of them
came from that background.
00:24:54.66\00:24:57.79
And I actually noticed
that when I became a Christian.
00:24:57.96\00:25:00.76
It was after completing my
first degree at university,
00:25:01.00\00:25:04.63
while a research fellow at
the University of Tasmania.
00:25:04.67\00:25:07.14
So, you know, a number of
the contributors did that.
00:25:07.17\00:25:12.67
Any other questions
that you guys might have?
00:25:13.61\00:25:15.81
Just maybe more
of an observation,
00:25:15.91\00:25:17.58
but it seems by, you know, the
discussion that's taking place
00:25:17.61\00:25:21.08
today that science and
faith aren't mutually exclusive.
00:25:21.12\00:25:24.79
But rather, they kind
of build off each other,
00:25:25.35\00:25:27.79
they feed with each other.
00:25:27.82\00:25:29.76
Two side of the
same coin, so to speak.
00:25:29.79\00:25:32.26
~ Well there's a classic example
that of John Polkinghorne
00:25:32.69\00:25:35.50
who was a professor
of theoretical physics
00:25:35.53\00:25:39.03
at the University of Cambridge
who resigned his position
00:25:39.07\00:25:43.47
to study theology.
00:25:43.87\00:25:46.07
And you know, he's a
very strong Christian.
00:25:46.81\00:25:49.64
Matter of fact, I think
Stephen Hawkins took his place.
00:25:49.68\00:25:55.22
So that, you know,
that's quite fascinating.
00:25:56.52\00:25:58.85
So we have, you
know, top physicists.
00:25:58.89\00:26:00.22
And I think when people,
particularly in the area of
00:26:00.26\00:26:02.59
physics, they realize,
whoa, there's so many really
00:26:02.62\00:26:06.29
interesting things going on here
that there's so much evidence
00:26:06.33\00:26:11.47
of a Creator God out
there behind the systems
00:26:11.50\00:26:16.40
that we observe in the universe.
00:26:16.44\00:26:18.17
Yeah, it's pretty cool stuff.
00:26:18.67\00:26:21.28
You know, real scientific
research points to the Bible.
00:26:21.38\00:26:26.05
So many of the great
scientists in the past like
00:26:26.08\00:26:28.85
Isaac Newton, he spent
more time writing in the area
00:26:29.18\00:26:32.65
of the Bible and
looking at the Bible prophecy
00:26:32.95\00:26:35.52
than in the area of
physics and such, you know.
00:26:35.56\00:26:38.43
James Clerk Maxwell, similarly.
00:26:38.83\00:26:41.06
You know, top scientists.
00:26:41.26\00:26:42.60
It's an amazing thing.
00:26:42.63\00:26:43.97
You know, there's a
growing number of people who are
00:26:44.00\00:26:45.63
rejecting Darwin's
theory of evolution.
00:26:45.67\00:26:48.10
That's the way science works.
00:26:48.14\00:26:49.84
When we discover evidence which
demonstrates that a scientific
00:26:50.07\00:26:53.31
theory is false, we need to be
honest and willing to reject it.
00:26:53.34\00:26:57.45
That's what many
scientists have decided
00:26:57.55\00:26:59.65
to do, and reject evolution.
00:26:59.68\00:27:01.68
But what about you?
00:27:02.02\00:27:03.49
What are you going to
replace evolution with?
00:27:03.52\00:27:05.65
I'd like to invite you to
explore what the Bible tells us
00:27:05.69\00:27:08.89
about how life began.
00:27:08.92\00:27:10.43
How a God of love
described in the Bible
00:27:10.46\00:27:12.93
created a beautiful
world in just six days.
00:27:13.03\00:27:15.93
Grab a Bible off your bookshelf
or download a Bible app
00:27:16.13\00:27:19.40
on your phone and
start reading the Bible
00:27:19.43\00:27:21.64
from the very first chapter.
00:27:21.67\00:27:23.61
Also, get a copy of
Dr. John Ashton's book,
00:27:23.74\00:27:26.78
Evolution Impossible.
00:27:26.81\00:27:28.14
It will help you realize
that your decision to reject
00:27:28.18\00:27:30.55
evolution is the
right one to make.
00:27:30.58\00:27:32.61
Did you realize that there's
other evidence that God exists?
00:27:32.71\00:27:35.68
Join us next time as we
explore that powerful evidence
00:27:35.88\00:27:38.79
that God wants a
genuine relationship with you.
00:27:38.82\00:27:41.39
We look forward
to seeing you then.
00:27:41.42\00:27:42.82