Welcome back to,
Evolution Impossible.
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I am Dr. Sven 
string, and we are exploring
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Darwin's theory of evolution and
considering whether the evidence
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supports his idea.
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For our discussion today, I
have Justin Torossian with us.
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Thank you for being here.
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Harley Southwell, good to have
you back on the set with us.
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And of course, Jeandré Roux.
Good to have you here as well.
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And of course, we have our
very own resident scientist,
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Dr. John Ashton.
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Good to have you here as well.
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Now, John, we've been
really glad how patient
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and accommodating you've
been for all of our questions.
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So thank you very much for that.
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One of the big things
that evolution needs is time,
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and lots of it.
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That's why Charles Darwin
was so intrigued and attracted
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to Charles Lyell's
hypothesis that geology
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points to long ages.
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But do geological processes
really lead us to an old earth?
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That's the topic
for today's discussion.
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And this is a topic that you,
Harley, have explored yourself.
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So you have parents
who are talking to you
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about a young earth.
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But then you also
are learning about
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old earth hypothesis as well.
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So share with us, what was
your journey like in this area?
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In high school I
took an elective in earth
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and environmental
science, because it's something
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I'm always
interesting in studying terrain
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and rocks, and things like that.
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And so, as I was
studying through that, obviously
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you encounter radiometric
dating, long earth, erosion,
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fossils, and all
those ideas as well.
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And so it was something
that I had to really sit down
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and decide, you know, what am
I going to believe for myself.
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Is it something that's
just going to be what I believe
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my parents have taught me, or
what the scientists are saying?
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And I really studied it
out myself and came to my own
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personal conclusion, which
is that the earth is young.
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And I was happy with
believing in that after reading
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a wide variety of literature
and a lot of articles.
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And Harley, that's a very
surprising conclusion to draw
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considering the science
and what scientists tell us.
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So, John, we want to
know, is there any evidence
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for what Harley
is talking about?
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Within the earth, is
there any evidence for a
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young age for the earth?
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Well yeah, sure, if
we want to look for that.
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I guess initially, though,
why people look at an old earth
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is probably on the
basis of radiometric dating.
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So we're told that the
earth is 4.5 billion years old,
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for a start, and the
continents formed, you know,
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2.5 billion years ago, 3 billion
years ago, this sort of thing.
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So this seed is
planted at a fairly early age.
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So I guess that underpins it.
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So when we say, "Well,
what is the evidence for
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a young earth and for
a young solar system?"
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Well, this is probably a
little bit outside our topic.
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But one classic area
is the strength of the
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earth's magnetic field.
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And so we know that
the earth's magnetic field
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has been decaying.
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It's decaying exponentially.
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We know it has decayed
about 10% in the last 150 years,
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so we have quite
accurate measurements
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of the earth's magnetic field.
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Now if we go back in
history to millions of years,
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that earth's magnetic
field is going to be so strong
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that the temperature on the
earth would not permit life,
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at that time anyway.
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So there are a lot of...
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~ What about these ideas about
the reversals and the polarity
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with the magnetic field?
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How does that play into that
magnetic field of the earth?
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Right. So these reversals in
crystals, in magnetic crystals
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that are observed in
lava, sure, these reversals
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that have occurred there,
they are very characteristic
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of probably the time when the
mountain ranges were pushed up,
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because obviously it
was some violent disruption
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of the surface of the earth.
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And in a way, it sort of
fits in with George Dodwell's,
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you know, observations
that have been recorded,
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that maybe it gives
some substance to them.
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I'm not sure. I'm not
going to go down that track.
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But obviously it fits that.
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During the flood there was
a major catastrophic event,
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and the earth was probably
violently shaken in some way,
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and that resulted, as we know,
the mountain ranges pushed up.
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And at the time, obviously the
core and whatever is responsible
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for the earth's magnetic
field, the dynamo effect,
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was also reversed at that time.
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But all these things
again, I think, you know,
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point to the fact that
there are examples that
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the earth must be young.
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There's other examples
too out in the solar system
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that our solar
system itself must be young.
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And that's on the basis of
the temperature that we measure
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in some of the, now
that we've reached the outer
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regions of the solar system,
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looking at some of the moons
that are around some of these
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outer planets like
Uranus and Neptune.
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I can't remember
them exactly off the cuff.
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But we know that some of
them still have, you know,
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molten lava, they're
very much higher temperature
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than they should be if they
were really millions of years,
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billions of years old, like the
solar system is supposed to be.
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So there's so much
evidence everywhere we look.
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Even within the solar
system it points to the earth
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being very young and the solar
system being very young itself.
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~ That's amazing.
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And you also mentioned
in this chapter in your book
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that there's evidence
in the surface of the earth
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in terms of the sedimentary
layers and erosion rates.
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So can you walk us
through that concept as well?
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Well look, erosion rates,
in my view, are the death knell
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to the long age hypothesis.
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Because if we look at the, if we
take, say, the classic example
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especially in
American textbooks, most of us
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have seen pictures
of the Grand Canyon,
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and we see those sediments
that are 1.5 kilometers deep
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or thereabouts over
there, and we say, well look,
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for this amount of
material to be eroded away,
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it's taken really slow over
a really long period of time.
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Well actually, let's
have a look at the data.
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Geographers have collected
data on the amount of material
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carried by the Colorado
River at the present time.
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And we know that it's
roughly, the whole area,
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that whole plateau there
in Arizona is eroding away
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at about 100
millimeters per 1000 years.
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Now that
doesn't sound like much.
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A hundred millimeters,
four inches, a thousand years;
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that's not much.
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But hang on.
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That means that if
it's 1.5 kilometers high,
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you know, in 15
to 20 million years
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the whole lot
should have eroded away.
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That is, the whole countryside
should have eroded away
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in that time.
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And we know this from geography
data from around the world.
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The average rate that
geographers use for erosion
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of the continents,
and some are much higher,
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particularly in high
rainfall areas, is about
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60 millimeters
per thousand years.
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As I said, it
doesn't sound like much,
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but when you consider
the average height of the
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U.S. continent is
only about 650 meters,
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what it means is that the
continents are going to erode
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away in less
than 10 million years.
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And so, if the continents
can erode away in less
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than 10 million years,
how can these sediments be
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hundreds of
millions of years old?
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How can the continents
be billions of years old?
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It just doesn't fit.
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And that's data
that we measure today,
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reproducible, reported in
the secular scientific journals
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from geographers all over
the world, similar values.
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You can get tables
of the erosion rates
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that are occurring.
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Got a lot of
accurate data on this now.
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The surface of the earth, if it
was really hundreds of millions
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of years old,
would have eroded away.
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It wouldn't be there.
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And so, this is a powerful
death knell to these dating.
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Now this raises an
important question.
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Because we radiometrically
date all these ages,
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it raises serious questions
about radiometric dating
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that we can
talk about some time.
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But this is a very, very
important area that we look at,
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the rate of
erosion of these materials
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as something we can measure.
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Now the other thing
that we can look at too
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is the rate at which sediments
are being deposited in the sea,
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and this sort of thing.
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~ So erosion would mean
that it's going from the land
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being eroded into the sea, yeah?
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Yes.
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So one of the things we can
say is, well, I think the top
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layer there at the Grand
Canyon, using the Grand Canyon
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as an example, is about,
I think the top sediments
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are dated at about, you
know, 200 million years,
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or something like that.
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So one of the arguments
is, well maybe there were
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other sediments on top.
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Well if the erosion
rate, if you work it out,
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the sediments would have to
be about, you know, three times
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the height of Mount
Everest on top again
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to provide enough overburden
to erode away to last that long.
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You know, so we get into
all these ridiculous scenarios
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if we try to have that
the continents are really
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thousands of
millions of years old.
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It just doesn't work on
the base of erosion rates.
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But there's more.
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Because we know in the past
the rainfall was much higher
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than it is today.
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There was a lot
of dense vegetation.
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So how do we know that
the rainfall was higher?
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Because we have the
remains of vegetation
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and this sort of thing, and
forest and this sort of thing,
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that lived in
these areas in the past.
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And all over the world.
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Before we get too far
into the sedimentary layers
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and erosion, I just want to
go back to what you said before
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about the young
universe and young earth.
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Is there any evidence
that the universe and the earth
00:10:12.11\00:10:15.11
were created at different
times, so the earth is maybe
00:10:15.14\00:10:18.61
younger or so?
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Because we've got
all these stars that are
00:10:20.45\00:10:22.88
millions of light years away.
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How do we see those lights
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if they were
created at the same time?
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What are your thoughts?
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~ Right, okay.
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Well this raises a
question that probably deserves
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another whole session on.
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But very quickly, we
need to understand about time.
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And there are a number
of factors that affect time.
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So as a satellite, if we have
the satellites around the earth,
00:10:46.34\00:10:51.61
as they travel around the
earth, because they travel fast,
00:10:51.91\00:10:57.62
time slows down on
those satellites. Right?
00:10:57.82\00:11:01.59
So I forget, off the
cuff, how far it slows down.
00:11:01.62\00:11:05.06
It's probably about 5
or 6 microseconds per day
00:11:05.09\00:11:08.70
that the time...
00:11:08.90\00:11:10.23
So if we had an atomic clock,
it uses the same rate of decay
00:11:10.27\00:11:14.70
as radiometric dating.
00:11:14.74\00:11:16.37
So if we had an atomic
clock on that satellite,
00:11:16.74\00:11:19.07
it would slow down
and be running slower
00:11:19.11\00:11:21.58
compared to an earth clock
by about 5 microseconds per day.
00:11:21.61\00:11:24.81
But on the other hand,
it's a lot further away from
00:11:25.11\00:11:28.38
the earth's gravitational field.
00:11:28.42\00:11:29.85
Now gravitational
fields slow down time.
00:11:29.88\00:11:34.06
So that means that now our
satellite clocks are running
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faster due to the fact that
they're further away up there.
00:11:38.96\00:11:43.77
~ And so, they
actually run faster.
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Typical communication satellites
like you use, say, on your GPS
00:11:46.37\00:11:49.80
and so forth will run something
like about 40 microseconds
00:11:49.84\00:11:53.64
per day faster
because it's out there.
00:11:53.68\00:11:57.28
So in actual fact engineers,
again, do these corrections
00:11:57.48\00:12:01.88
and they correct; they
subtract the 5 or 6 from the 40,
00:12:02.88\00:12:06.32
and they correct by
about whatever it is, 35.
00:12:06.35\00:12:09.09
You know, I'm
running from memory here,
00:12:09.29\00:12:10.93
but it's roughly
these sort of figures.
00:12:10.96\00:12:12.76
And if they didn't correct
for those sort of values,
00:12:13.09\00:12:16.70
your GPS would accumulate errors
of about 400 meters per day.
00:12:17.07\00:12:21.40
~ You'd be lost
without engineers.
00:12:22.84\00:12:24.87
Literally, literally.
00:12:24.91\00:12:27.11
But one of the things
we need to understand is,
00:12:27.14\00:12:29.24
a lot of people don't
understand a lot about time.
00:12:29.98\00:12:33.01
Now, when we talk
about, again, if God created
00:12:33.05\00:12:37.45
the universe, and the
universe was expanded out
00:12:37.49\00:12:43.12
from where the earth is.
00:12:43.16\00:12:44.89
So we talk about the earth was
created, and then it talks about
00:12:44.93\00:12:47.60
the stars were created.
00:12:47.63\00:12:48.96
Now I know for a lot of
listeners, this is going to
00:12:49.00\00:12:50.63
blow your mind because you're
not taught about these things.
00:12:50.67\00:12:53.30
But this is the real science.
00:12:53.64\00:12:55.17
This is real
theoretical science.
00:12:55.20\00:12:56.71
If we look at how the
earth, the Bible talks about how
00:12:56.91\00:13:01.38
God stretched out the heavens.
00:13:01.41\00:13:02.98
So if there's an intense
gravitational field here,
00:13:03.01\00:13:06.21
clocks on earth here
are going to be very slow.
00:13:06.41\00:13:09.08
Whereas, as God is
stretching it out here,
00:13:10.19\00:13:13.05
those clocks are
running, relative to earth time,
00:13:13.25\00:13:16.12
very, very fast.
00:13:16.16\00:13:17.49
And so, this is
one of the problems.
00:13:18.39\00:13:20.16
The other thing
where people don't realize
00:13:20.20\00:13:23.37
is that when we talk
about the speed of light,
00:13:23.40\00:13:26.90
and these stars are
millions of light years away,
00:13:27.70\00:13:30.34
we're talking about
the two-way speed of light.
00:13:30.51\00:13:34.14
Because no one,
it's impossible for us
00:13:34.18\00:13:37.25
to measure the
one-way speed of light.
00:13:37.28\00:13:39.85
We don't know what the
one-way speed of light is.
00:13:40.02\00:13:43.35
And this is the
problem of synchronicity.
00:13:43.49\00:13:46.19
And so, we work on the, it
is the two-way speed of light,
00:13:47.02\00:13:53.09
the average of the two-way
speed of light that we work on.
00:13:53.40\00:13:56.20
It is theoretically
possible, it doesn't violate
00:13:56.30\00:13:59.27
any laws of physics
for light to reach us
00:13:59.30\00:14:01.67
instantaneously from the stars.
00:14:01.87\00:14:04.04
And to me, this will help...
00:14:04.27\00:14:06.34
See, what happens is,
there's the Reichenbach equation
00:14:06.37\00:14:09.74
of synchronicity; and
Einstein just happened to choose
00:14:09.94\00:14:13.31
the epsilon value of point five.
00:14:13.35\00:14:15.22
And it was a random choice.
00:14:15.52\00:14:16.89
It wasn't based on
any scientific evidence.
00:14:16.92\00:14:19.02
It was just a random choice.
00:14:19.12\00:14:20.56
And the epsilon value
can theoretically range
00:14:20.59\00:14:23.56
anywhere from 0 to 1.
00:14:23.59\00:14:25.29
If we choose the value
1, which is a logical one,
00:14:25.33\00:14:27.90
we have
instantaneous light travel.
00:14:27.93\00:14:29.93
That's pretty cool.
00:14:31.10\00:14:32.43
And this makes a lot of sense.
00:14:32.47\00:14:33.87
And I've always wondered
this, even before I really
00:14:33.90\00:14:36.84
got involved in
creation research, you know,
00:14:36.87\00:14:38.71
as I was studying physics
at the university years ago.
00:14:38.74\00:14:41.18
The thing is that, why are
we seeing astronomical events
00:14:41.44\00:14:47.08
taking place on our timescale?
00:14:47.12\00:14:49.55
It's always fascinated me.
00:14:50.69\00:14:52.02
It's as if it's all
set up for us to observe
00:14:52.05\00:14:55.62
on our timescale.
00:14:55.66\00:14:56.99
And why would God create
things where we're looking at
00:14:57.03\00:14:59.79
billions of years in the past?
00:14:59.83\00:15:01.63
It creates a
whole lot of problems,
00:15:01.93\00:15:03.63
you know, in
terms of timescales.
00:15:04.43\00:15:06.23
~ Is it possible, though,
like God created the universe
00:15:06.27\00:15:09.90
a long time ago and has,
like, a lot of fun with that?
00:15:10.01\00:15:14.08
And then also later on
He decides, "Oh, there's
00:15:14.28\00:15:16.21
another little spot over here.
00:15:16.24\00:15:17.58
I'm going to
create something more."
00:15:17.61\00:15:18.95
And He finds, like, a
little empty crusty rock.
00:15:18.98\00:15:21.18
And just like, "Oh
yeah, I'll make this into,
00:15:21.28\00:15:22.92
it's nothing, so I'll
make it into something."
00:15:22.95\00:15:24.99
Is that another possible theory
that would kind of fit with...
00:15:25.55\00:15:28.36
~ Well, how could we know?
00:15:28.39\00:15:29.76
The problem with that
is, it doesn't really fit
00:15:29.79\00:15:31.73
with the Bible account.
00:15:31.76\00:15:33.09
And you can have any
sort of other theories.
00:15:33.23\00:15:35.70
So John Wheeler got
his PhD. in the early 50's
00:15:35.73\00:15:38.17
for the multi-verse theory,
the multi-universe theory.
00:15:38.20\00:15:41.40
So you can have
all sorts of theories.
00:15:41.44\00:15:44.41
We come back to
what can we know.
00:15:44.44\00:15:47.61
And so, there's a number
of things that we can know.
00:15:48.04\00:15:50.35
How can we know the past?
00:15:50.88\00:15:53.65
We can only know the past
if there was some observer
00:15:53.85\00:15:57.42
that can tell us the
past, or there was some observer
00:15:57.45\00:15:59.85
that made a record of the past.
00:15:59.89\00:16:02.42
Time is a very
interesting thing, as I said.
00:16:03.26\00:16:05.39
You know, time is
affected by so many things.
00:16:05.43\00:16:07.26
And this whole concept
of our understanding of time
00:16:07.30\00:16:10.43
is one that, you know,
we can talk about perhaps
00:16:10.63\00:16:12.70
in a later session
in a bit more detail.
00:16:12.73\00:16:15.44
But sure, you can
have that scenario.
00:16:15.70\00:16:18.21
And that's as far as it goes.
00:16:18.51\00:16:20.61
But in terms of data,
we have a Bible record
00:16:20.88\00:16:24.01
where we know the
Bible account fits
00:16:24.18\00:16:27.22
accurately historically.
00:16:27.48\00:16:29.25
And also, the Bible
has prophecies in where
00:16:29.28\00:16:31.95
God reveals that
He knows the future.
00:16:31.99\00:16:33.72
Now this is a very
important aspect that we can
00:16:33.76\00:16:35.66
discuss some time too.
00:16:35.69\00:16:37.03
And on this basis, it gives
us reason to trust the Bible.
00:16:37.59\00:16:41.96
Or if we have a look at it,
we can say, well, what's the
00:16:42.13\00:16:44.77
probability that the
Bible is true or not true?
00:16:44.80\00:16:48.50
So the Bible is
either true or it's not true.
00:16:48.54\00:16:51.67
And so, we can
look at the probability.
00:16:51.77\00:16:53.58
Now when we look at it, the
historical evidence lines up.
00:16:53.68\00:16:56.85
When we look at the
prophetic evidence, it lines up.
00:16:56.88\00:16:59.25
There's about 750 prophecies
listed in the encyclopedia
00:16:59.28\00:17:03.62
of Bible prophecy
that was published by
00:17:03.65\00:17:06.32
Princeton University Press.
00:17:06.35\00:17:08.72
When we look at
this sort of data,
00:17:09.39\00:17:10.99
most of those
have been fulfilled.
00:17:11.03\00:17:12.93
And the ones that
haven't are either future
00:17:12.96\00:17:14.66
or conditional, and so forth.
00:17:14.70\00:17:16.90
If we looked at our odds,
we've got very, very high odds
00:17:17.47\00:17:21.20
that what the
Bible says is true.
00:17:21.24\00:17:23.30
And it's sort of like, if
you are flying in a plane,
00:17:23.67\00:17:26.24
and someone told you,
"Look, I work as an engineer.
00:17:26.88\00:17:29.84
And, you know, the
engines in these planes
00:17:29.88\00:17:33.31
are due for a major
breakdown at so many hours,
00:17:33.82\00:17:36.38
and this plane is
one hour before that,"
00:17:36.42\00:17:39.12
would you hop in the plane?
00:17:39.15\00:17:40.49
And so you've got
good data up to this time
00:17:40.59\00:17:43.59
that all these engines
fail after so many hours.
00:17:43.63\00:17:46.46
Well, we don't know for sure
whether it is going to fail,
00:17:47.93\00:17:50.37
or we could be lucky.
00:17:50.40\00:17:51.73
But this is exactly
what we face with the Bible.
00:17:52.20\00:17:54.57
And this gets me; why
young people aren't being taught
00:17:54.60\00:17:58.07
about the Bible today.
00:17:58.11\00:17:59.44
We have so much scientific
evidence supporting the Bible
00:17:59.47\00:18:02.84
as a historical account
of God's history with man,
00:18:02.88\00:18:06.82
and young people
aren't being told about it.
00:18:07.12\00:18:08.58
When we look at the science,
when we look at the mathematical
00:18:08.62\00:18:11.29
probability, the probability
that the Bible is true
00:18:11.32\00:18:14.39
and the account about
God is correct is very high.
00:18:14.49\00:18:17.79
~ Talking about the evidence,
talking about the erosion
00:18:18.56\00:18:22.50
rates and the sedimentation,
it's a fascinating area which
00:18:22.53\00:18:25.80
really supports
faith in the Bible.
00:18:25.83\00:18:28.64
And one of the questions I have
is, you've got these erosion
00:18:28.67\00:18:31.71
rates, but isn't it possible
that the deposition rates,
00:18:31.74\00:18:36.41
the deposits kind of
match the erosion rates?
00:18:36.44\00:18:39.98
And so we kind of
have this equilibrium.
00:18:40.02\00:18:41.98
So the earth could be
a lot older than what the
00:18:42.48\00:18:45.85
erosion rates may tell us.
00:18:45.89\00:18:47.66
Hmm, okay, so the surface
of the earth is replenished
00:18:47.76\00:18:51.09
with volcanic material.
00:18:51.13\00:18:52.59
~Ah, yes.
00:18:52.63\00:18:53.96
Okay, so when we look,
we know at the present time
00:18:54.00\00:18:58.03
the rate at which new
volcanic material is being
00:18:58.27\00:19:01.77
poured out on the
surface of the earth.
00:19:01.80\00:19:03.24
And I forget the
actual figure and what it is,
00:19:03.44\00:19:05.34
it's, you know, 3 or 4 or
5 cubic kilometers per year.
00:19:05.37\00:19:09.38
And so, if we look at
now all the known volcanic
00:19:09.61\00:19:15.02
sort of outputs onto the surface
of the earth that we can measure
00:19:16.65\00:19:20.99
and observe today,
all those would occur
00:19:21.02\00:19:24.23
in, I think from memory,
just over 30 million years.
00:19:24.43\00:19:27.36
At the current rate.
00:19:27.80\00:19:29.83
But of course, you know, you
walk just down to the beach here
00:19:30.10\00:19:33.34
and there's all these
dikes that come through,
00:19:33.37\00:19:35.00
and you see the seals
that have come through.
00:19:35.04\00:19:37.11
There's a lot of
volcanic activity in this area,
00:19:37.14\00:19:39.24
and just about everywhere
you go, that is now dormant.
00:19:39.27\00:19:42.08
Thankfully.
00:19:42.11\00:19:43.45
And so, we know that the
volcanic activity in the past
00:19:43.48\00:19:47.18
was much more rapidly.
00:19:47.22\00:19:48.55
So again, even if we look from
the volcanic intrusion effect,
00:19:48.58\00:19:52.05
the amount of
volcanic material coming on
00:19:52.09\00:19:53.59
the surface of the earth,
the earth's surface can't be
00:19:53.62\00:19:56.59
hundreds of
millions of years old.
00:19:56.62\00:19:58.06
It just doesn't fit.
00:19:58.36\00:19:59.69
It all comes back to the
biblical picture timeline.
00:19:59.73\00:20:02.93
And not only do we
have the erosion rates, but
00:20:03.13\00:20:05.73
we have the matching
mutation rate as well.
00:20:05.77\00:20:09.47
I was just wondering
if there's anybody else
00:20:09.50\00:20:10.97
who has some questions
for John on these topics.
00:20:11.07\00:20:14.08
You know, I have a question
about the mutation rates
00:20:14.58\00:20:16.98
of, you know, the human DNA.
00:20:17.01\00:20:18.81
And according to evolutionary
theory, evolution can take place
00:20:19.08\00:20:24.35
because of genetic
mutations that are positive,
00:20:24.39\00:20:27.46
and a positive
thing for humanity.
00:20:27.49\00:20:29.52
But you mentioned in your
book in this chapter about
00:20:29.72\00:20:32.96
how the amount of
genetic mutations in human DNA
00:20:32.99\00:20:37.13
that would have taken
place in that long of a time,
00:20:37.17\00:20:40.24
as evolutionary
theorists suggest,
00:20:40.27\00:20:42.54
would actually lead to
human life being extinct.
00:20:42.87\00:20:46.61
And so, the very thing that
evolutionary theory depends upon
00:20:46.94\00:20:51.31
today with mutations
seems to be the very thing,
00:20:51.35\00:20:54.88
or another thing, that
disproves it as being true.
00:20:54.92\00:20:58.29
I just wondered if you
might be able to comment.
00:20:58.49\00:21:00.69
~ Yes, this has been discussed
in the scientific literature,
00:21:00.72\00:21:05.09
and it's something that's
blowing the minds of a lot of
00:21:05.13\00:21:09.56
evolutionists and people
that believe in those long ages.
00:21:09.76\00:21:12.90
Because we now have very
good data on genomic decay,
00:21:13.37\00:21:17.47
the rate at which
we're accumulating mutations,
00:21:17.51\00:21:19.94
particularly in
mitochondrial DNA.
00:21:20.31\00:21:22.34
There's a report in the
top journals like Nature,
00:21:22.64\00:21:25.05
and so forth.
00:21:25.08\00:21:26.41
And so we now know.
00:21:26.45\00:21:28.68
And if we extrapolate
back, sure, life on earth
00:21:28.72\00:21:31.29
cannot be more than 10
or 20 thousand years old,
00:21:31.49\00:21:34.42
at best, or maybe
100,000 years at best.
00:21:34.46\00:21:37.63
Because the amount of
mutations would accumulate
00:21:38.73\00:21:42.83
if life was older than that.
00:21:42.86\00:21:44.27
Like, for example, they claim,
you know, humans started about
00:21:44.30\00:21:47.14
2 million years ago, sort
of began to separate from apes
00:21:47.17\00:21:50.31
about that time, and sort forth.
00:21:50.34\00:21:51.91
You know, somewhere between
1 and 2 million years ago.
00:21:51.94\00:21:55.44
Well, during that time
we would have accumulated
00:21:55.64\00:21:58.71
so many mutations that our
bodies would have broken down.
00:21:58.75\00:22:01.82
There would be so much disorder.
00:22:01.85\00:22:03.49
So you're spot on.
00:22:03.52\00:22:04.85
So this is just one of
so many things that says
00:22:04.89\00:22:07.66
evolution is
impossible and didn't happen.
00:22:07.86\00:22:10.23
So why would a God create,
though, an earth that decays,
00:22:10.26\00:22:16.90
and a genome that
decays, and so forth?
00:22:16.93\00:22:20.10
Well, our understanding
is, of course, as revealed
00:22:20.44\00:22:23.71
in the Bible that this decay
was a result of disobedience or
00:22:23.74\00:22:29.81
a breakdown of following God's
perfect laws in the beginning.
00:22:29.84\00:22:33.28
So God set up a
system that was perfect,
00:22:33.31\00:22:36.22
and the first humans there
sort of chose to violate that.
00:22:37.55\00:22:42.99
And I guess this brings
in a whole other concept
00:22:43.53\00:22:45.86
of the supernatural.
00:22:45.89\00:22:47.50
You know, a lot of people just
believe in the physical world
00:22:47.53\00:22:51.20
here, but of course,
the Bible reveals that there
00:22:51.23\00:22:54.10
is a spiritual world,
there's spiritual creatures,
00:22:54.14\00:22:56.40
angels, demons, and so forth.
00:22:56.44\00:22:58.94
A lot of people
don't want to accept that,
00:22:58.97\00:23:00.54
that there are demons
and this sort of thing.
00:23:00.74\00:23:02.71
The Bible
clearly points to this.
00:23:02.74\00:23:04.08
And I think there's a
lot of evidence for this,
00:23:04.11\00:23:06.41
particularly when we go
into more primitive societies.
00:23:06.45\00:23:09.75
And so we have, I think
it's very clear that people
00:23:10.15\00:23:13.05
can see there's a
conflict between good and evil,
00:23:13.09\00:23:15.32
and there's a battle going on.
00:23:15.69\00:23:17.26
And as a result of
that, of course, our bodies
00:23:17.56\00:23:20.46
no longer are perfect.
00:23:20.50\00:23:22.03
They're subject to this decay.
00:23:22.06\00:23:23.77
And I think God had to do
that because it wasn't good
00:23:23.80\00:23:27.70
for evil to just
continue to go on.
00:23:27.74\00:23:30.07
We see the effects of
evil in our world today.
00:23:30.11\00:23:32.67
It's terrible.
00:23:33.14\00:23:34.58
You know, I often think,
why are people developing
00:23:35.08\00:23:38.08
all these weapons, and
then they're firing rockets
00:23:38.11\00:23:40.48
and bullets, and
they're blowing up people
00:23:40.52\00:23:42.78
that was somebody's
little baby that grew up
00:23:42.82\00:23:45.22
and they loved?
00:23:45.25\00:23:46.59
You know, why are we
destroying each other,
00:23:46.99\00:23:49.72
and there's so
much greed and hate?
00:23:49.76\00:23:51.09
We can see all these
bad things, and yet we see
00:23:51.13\00:23:54.70
the love of a newly married
couple, we see the love of
00:23:54.73\00:23:57.57
a parent to a child, we see
the innocence of young children,
00:23:57.60\00:24:01.10
and so forth, and
there's so much good.
00:24:01.14\00:24:02.67
We see people rallying
together with the bushfires,
00:24:02.70\00:24:05.57
and when national
tragedy is happening.
00:24:05.87\00:24:07.94
But we see this
conflict between good and evil.
00:24:07.98\00:24:11.65
You know, we have the
bushfires, the firemen
00:24:11.68\00:24:13.15
are there fighting,
and there's also people
00:24:13.18\00:24:15.08
coming in and looting.
00:24:15.12\00:24:16.45
You know?
00:24:16.48\00:24:17.82
So it explains a lot, the Bible.
00:24:17.85\00:24:20.32
It's very interesting,
you talk about that conflict
00:24:20.66\00:24:24.33
between good and evil.
00:24:24.36\00:24:25.69
And I guess the
question that I have is,
00:24:25.73\00:24:27.53
you know, the theory of
evolution, where does that
00:24:27.80\00:24:30.83
kind of fit into this
conflict between good and evil?
00:24:30.87\00:24:34.10
Have you
reflected on that question?
00:24:34.14\00:24:37.41
Well, you know, other people
have too, and sort of linked,
00:24:37.51\00:24:42.84
well it's
survival of the fittest.
00:24:42.88\00:24:44.98
And also, the whole concept
of evolution seems to have
00:24:46.25\00:24:48.82
underpinned a number
of atheist regimes that
00:24:48.85\00:24:53.19
have certainly committed
a lot of really bad things.
00:24:53.22\00:24:56.46
And a lot of people say,
00:24:56.79\00:24:58.13
"Well, hang on, it's
not atheism that's bad."
00:24:58.16\00:25:00.16
But I think, really, and
the argument has been raised,
00:25:00.20\00:25:04.17
if we're not
accountable to a creator God,
00:25:04.20\00:25:07.34
why should we be good if we
know we can get away with it?
00:25:07.70\00:25:10.77
It raises that question there.
00:25:11.67\00:25:14.04
And I don't think
there's an answer.
00:25:14.08\00:25:15.51
And you know, atheists
say, "Well, you know, I can
00:25:15.54\00:25:17.25
choose to be moral,"
and all this sort of thing.
00:25:17.28\00:25:19.15
And that's right, they can.
00:25:19.25\00:25:20.85
But again, one questions,
"Well, where does that
00:25:21.02\00:25:23.85
choice come from?"
00:25:23.89\00:25:25.22
And maybe there
is something more.
00:25:25.29\00:25:27.49
See, one of the things
that evolution doesn't explain
00:25:27.52\00:25:30.03
is the concept of consciousness,
00:25:30.23\00:25:33.09
and the mind, and who we
are, as being non-material.
00:25:33.60\00:25:36.50
And I could talk on
that for a while, but,
00:25:36.53\00:25:38.20
you know, we're getting off
topic here of erosion rates.
00:25:38.40\00:25:40.50
I think the bottom
line is that erosion rates,
00:25:40.54\00:25:43.91
deposition rates,
when we look at them,
00:25:43.94\00:25:46.11
they all point to a young earth.
00:25:46.14\00:25:48.24
And the other important
factor is that they raise
00:25:48.34\00:25:51.11
serious questions about
the radiometric dating results
00:25:51.15\00:25:54.22
that we get that
points to this deposit being
00:25:54.25\00:25:56.89
a hundred million years old,
00:25:56.92\00:25:58.25
this deposit being three
hundred million years old,
00:25:58.29\00:26:00.06
and so forth.
00:26:00.26\00:26:01.59
It doesn't work in
terms of erosion rates.
00:26:01.62\00:26:03.93
So therefore, there's got to
be something fundamentally wrong
00:26:03.96\00:26:07.16
with radiometric dating.
00:26:07.20\00:26:08.63
And yet,
radiometric dating is considered
00:26:08.66\00:26:11.40
as the be all and end all,
00:26:11.43\00:26:12.87
the rock solid data,
sort of thing, age method.
00:26:12.90\00:26:15.90
That's how we can look at it.
00:26:16.67\00:26:18.17
Maybe if we just dive
into this topic, into the sea,
00:26:18.21\00:26:21.01
what about marine
sedimentation kind of layers?
00:26:21.04\00:26:24.41
And how thick are
the deposits down there?
00:26:24.45\00:26:27.08
Well that right;
again, if the earth was
00:26:27.12\00:26:29.05
hundreds of millions of
years old, those deposits
00:26:29.08\00:26:31.22
would be much, much thicker
than we calculate them to be
00:26:31.25\00:26:34.32
at the current erosion rates.
00:26:35.29\00:26:36.73
All the deposits that we
measure in the depth of the sea,
00:26:36.76\00:26:39.49
they are only
about 450 meters deep,
00:26:39.53\00:26:41.46
they were deposited in
about 15 million years.
00:26:41.80\00:26:44.53
So again, no
matter where we look at,
00:26:44.57\00:26:46.37
it's all
pointing to a young earth.
00:26:46.40\00:26:48.44
It's amazing. This has
been a very fascinating topic.
00:26:49.30\00:26:52.14
And I'm sure that you've enjoyed
following along our discussion.
00:26:52.17\00:26:55.24
If you'd like to learn more
about the idea that our planet
00:26:55.44\00:26:58.51
may not be old enough to give
sufficient time for evolution
00:26:58.55\00:27:02.28
to have occurred, you want
to get Dr. John Ashton's book.
00:27:02.32\00:27:06.19
You can go to your
favorite online bookstore
00:27:08.19\00:27:10.83
anywhere around the world
and just click on it and get it
00:27:10.86\00:27:14.13
right where you are.
00:27:14.33\00:27:16.33
It is quite astonishing
that sedimentation and erosion
00:27:16.67\00:27:20.57
rates point to a young earth.
00:27:20.60\00:27:23.57
But as we talked
about, what about
00:27:23.81\00:27:25.51
radiometric dating methods?
00:27:25.54\00:27:27.28
Aren't those methods
absolutely rock solid,
00:27:27.31\00:27:30.08
not only here on earth, but
also in the universe as well?
00:27:30.25\00:27:33.58
That's a topic
for our next episode.
00:27:33.75\00:27:36.65
And it's definitely not a
discussion to miss at all.
00:27:36.85\00:27:39.92
So we really invite you to
come and join with us again.
00:27:39.95\00:27:42.89
And if you want to
catch up on previous episodes,
00:27:43.02\00:27:45.19
just go to our website...
00:27:45.23\00:27:46.56
We look forward to you
joining us again next time.
00:27:49.33\00:27:53.27