You're joining us
for, Evolution Impossible,
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where we're exploring the
scientific evidence for the
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theory of evolution.
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And we have to say, that
we're starting to get a deluge
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of reasons to see why
evolution is impossible.
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My name is Dr. Sven  string.
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Back with me in the
studio today is Ellie Turner.
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That's for joining us.
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We've got Stephen Aveling-Rowe.
Good to have you here.
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And Jeandré Roux. Glad
to have you back with us.
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And of course, we've
got our resident expert,
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Dr. John Ashton.
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Where would we be
without you on this journey
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together with all of us.
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You know, talking
about a deluge of evidence,
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one of the landmark events
in the Bible is the flood,
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which the book of Genesis tells
us covered the whole earth.
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That would be a pretty
incredible flood, indeed.
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And yet, some scholars maintain
that the flood was only a
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local event which impacted
a region in the Middle East.
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But what we want to know is,
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where does the
scientific evidence point?
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Does it point to a
local flood or a global flood?
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So John, help us out here.
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Why are scholars
and experts so concerned
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and really believe that
the flood was a local event?
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Well there are, I guess, some
other histories in the area that
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talk about the flood.
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And also, I don't know really
why they want to say that.
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Maybe they think it's impossible
that it could be a global event.
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And therefore, it
had to be a local event.
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But really, if it was
just a local event, why didn't
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God say to Noah, "Well,
just pack up your family and
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go for a holiday
north or south," you know.
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Just walk over the mountains.
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And why did all the animals
have to go in the ark, you know?
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I mean, just
migrate the animals.
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It just doesn't
make sense, you know.
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And of course, you've
got the meteorite impact
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which supposedly
destroyed all the dinosaurs,
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which was, you know, global.
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And yet, why not have
a global flood as well?
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So moving on to
the scientific evidence
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we want to explore with
you and find out, what is the
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scientific evidence that we
have for a global flood event?
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Well, the global flood
event is actually recorded
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in the scientific textbooks.
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So they admit that.
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At the end of the Cretaceous
period the geology textbooks
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essentially say the whole
world was covered by water.
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And there are a number of
other extinction events too.
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The first one, the Ordovician
about 450 million ago,
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according to
conventional dating.
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And then another
series of extinction events.
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So the geologists recognize that
there were extinction events
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that wiped out huge numbers
of animals at those times.
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Huge percentages of
marine life in one event,
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and so forth.
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And so, these are recognized.
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These global extinction
events are recognized.
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The big issue is that
the Bible puts these events
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only thousands of years ago.
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~ Right, so it's
a matter of timing.
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Yes, only
thousands of years ago.
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And of course, a lot of
people feel that the story of
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Noah's ark, and this sort of
thing, is a little bit childish,
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but it's something we
can discuss another time.
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But the geological evidence
for a massive catastrophic flood
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is certainly there.
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In fact, there's
been books written now,
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Earth's Catastrophic Past.
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One of the things that the
author of that, for example,
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Dr. Derek Ager, points out is,
"Well, I don't want creationists
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to grab onto this.
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You know, I still
believe in long ages."
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But we can see that the
long ages don't fit either.
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We can talk about that
perhaps at another time.
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But the evidence is there,
that there was a catastrophic
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destruction of life on earth.
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The geologists put
them over a period of about
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400 million years,
perhaps 450 million year ago
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to 65 million years ago.
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Whereas, the Bible
puts this all together.
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But the Bible picture has
some other advantages too.
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In the Bible, it talks
about the fountains of the deep
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opening and coming forth.
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And a lot of people
just have this picture of
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rain, you know, for
forty days and forty nights.
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~ Long period of time. -
This sort of thing, yeah.
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But in actual fact, the
Bible talks about massive,
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and these
fountains of the deep...
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You know, that's
what the Bible says.
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And that's as
far as we can know.
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But it probably involved
massive amounts of water,
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ground water
that was under there.
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It would have been
much warmer, of course,
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that would have
heated the oceans up as well.
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And so, we had a lot of climatic
conditions that occurred.
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Now this actually
provides a beautiful explanation
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for the ice ages.
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Because we would have had
this massive warming effect
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after the flood, and then of
course with a lot of volcanic
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matter and ash, and this
sort of thing, we would have had
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cooling that
occurred after that,
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which would have
produced our ice age.
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So it produced
these cycles afterwards,
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which explains the ice ages.
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So going into the evidence
itself, do we find in the strata
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evidence for this global flood?
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~ What is the specific
evidence we're looking at?
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Well in particular, if
we look at the Grand Canyon,
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we see all these
layers on top of one another
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that have been laid
down that must have been
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laid down under water.
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And this covers huge areas.
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Like, over the continent
of the United States we have
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massive amounts of
material deposited.
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So if we have a layer that's
covering, say, over a million
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square kilometers,
that is a massive amount...
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~ And that's not a local flood.
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No, no, and it might
be 30 or 40 meters thick,
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this particular layer.
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And this is a solid material.
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To carry that amount of
material, you think 30 meters
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deep of solid material spread
over a million square kilometers
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requires a huge amount
of water to transport that
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huge volume of
solid material, you know.
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And the average
density of rock is about 2.7,
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so nearly three
times the density of water
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has got to be moved.
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So a lot of force, and to
be carried by huge distances.
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So we're talking about
material spread over huge areas
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of the continent.
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And all the
continents spread like this
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that buried these
creatures at these times.
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One of the interesting
things is that there's
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no erosion in
between the layers.
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So again, these layers are
dated millions of years apart.
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Of course, some of the
shots of the Grand Canyon,
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you might have 300 million
years or 200 million years
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showing in that particular
shot, and yet all those layers
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apparently there's
no signs of erosion.
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And yet in the Grand Canyon
itself we have massive erosion.
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You know, I get
erosion in my gravel driveway
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when we get heavy rain.
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You get a Grand
Canyon in your very home.
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A mini one.
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A very mini one.
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So this is a classic example.
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Another classic
example is folding.
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We often find that
the strata are folded
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very sharply, and
this sort of thing.
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If those layers are
millions of years apart,
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in hard rock they're
not going to fold up.
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And we can see that those folds
represent very plastic forms
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of the rock.
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Everywhere we look, when
we look at these structures
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it all points to that these
layers can't be millions of
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years apart that evolutionists
require for their theory.
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It all has to have
happened at a very recent time.
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Very
interesting. Very interesting.
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Stephen, it looks like
you've got a question for John.
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Absolutely.
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So talking about the
stratification there and the
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lack of erosion
between these layers,
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you know, we look at things
like the great coal deposits
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which we have very
close to us here in Australia,
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The great Newcastle
deposits around here.
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And I've seen with my own
eyes, we see, for example,
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fossilized wood and things like
that, trees that are spanning
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across many meters
through these different layers.
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Well in my experience, you know,
timber seems to decay after
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you know, decades,
not millions of years.
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I mean, in millions of years
there wouldn't be much left.
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So how is it that this
timber has remained there,
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was able to fossilize, and then
some of it has turned into coal
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or has been
preserved in other ways.
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How does that work?
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Well again, these
are major problems.
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I don't know how geologists
attempt to explain these,
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in terms of the timescales.
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When I was doing geology,
we simply learned the layers,
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we learned how
to do the mapping,
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and so forth, in stratigraphy.
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In paleontology we learned
the names of the fossils.
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But what I do know, talking
to people that there are,
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and particularly the
coal miners in this area,
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have come across these
vertical tree fossils preserved
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even in the coal seams.
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And they were even
known to Lyell, Charles Lyell,
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as I mentioned in
a previous session,
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the ones in Nova Scotia.
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So these are major problems,
these polystrate fossils.
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And they're found in
many places around the world.
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Of course, the Mount St.
Helen eruption that occurred in
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1980, I think it
was, or thereabouts,
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when those trees were
blown out and then they floated
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in the lake, so forth, we can
see how that sort of scenario
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could explain these structures.
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But the important point
is that these structures
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pass through many layers,
that if we use the Lyell type
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dating approach would
span tens of thousands,
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hundreds of thousands,
maybe even millions of years.
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Whereas, in
actually fact that can't be.
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So everywhere we look,
we've got this sort of evidence.
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So moving to this
concept of the ice age,
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as you mentioned before,
it's a time which fascinates
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kids; the woolly mammoths
and the saber-toothed tigers,
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and things like that.
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So I guess it's a challenge.
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How does the ice age
fit into the flood account,
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in terms of and compared to,
like, the Milankovitch cycles,
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and all that kind of thing,
in terms of geological history?
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Yeah sure, okay, well
many of us have heard about
00:10:38.70\00:10:43.17
the ice core data,
and the ice cores go back
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hundreds of thousands of
years, and this sort of thing.
00:10:45.61\00:10:47.88
So let's have a look at this.
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There's powerful
evidence for ice ages.
00:10:50.18\00:10:53.31
And in the
relatively recent past.
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For example, the official
age for the Grand Canyon ice age
00:10:55.72\00:10:59.69
is only about 12,000 years.
00:10:59.72\00:11:01.22
Even though Lyell
dated it about 35,000 years,
00:11:01.26\00:11:05.29
you know, from his guess.
00:11:05.33\00:11:06.66
And his guess was way too old.
00:11:06.70\00:11:08.43
And that was because of recent
ice age activity in the area.
00:11:08.73\00:11:13.84
But there's no actual
secular model that can
00:11:14.10\00:11:17.21
explain the ice ages.
00:11:17.24\00:11:19.67
So when we look at the
Milankovitch sort of theory,
00:11:19.91\00:11:24.41
it's look at perturbations
or slight perturbations
00:11:24.45\00:11:27.12
in the tilt of the earth
varying the amount of sunlight.
00:11:27.15\00:11:29.62
But it's not enough change in
energy to actually trigger this.
00:11:29.65\00:11:33.36
But they've got nothing else
to sort of hang their hat on.
00:11:33.39\00:11:36.76
But I've had a look at this
ice age data because, you know,
00:11:36.86\00:11:40.03
a lot of questions are
raised on this, and they say,
00:11:40.06\00:11:42.16
you know, people say to
me, "Hey, John, so you believe
00:11:42.36\00:11:44.27
the earth is only
6.5 thousand years old.
00:11:44.30\00:11:46.53
What about these ice ages?
00:11:46.90\00:11:48.24
They've measured
them and they go back
00:11:48.27\00:11:49.60
a hundred thousand years."
00:11:49.64\00:11:50.97
Well, the data just isn't
there. For a number of reasons.
00:11:51.01\00:11:54.18
When you apply
increased pressure to ice,
00:11:54.58\00:11:56.75
it melts, you know.
00:11:56.78\00:11:58.11
If you have a block of ice
and you put a wire across it
00:11:58.15\00:12:00.18
with a couple of weights,
it just slowly moves down.
00:12:00.22\00:12:02.28
Because under that little bit
of wiring; increased pressure,
00:12:02.32\00:12:05.25
decrease melting point.
00:12:05.49\00:12:06.82
And so, what happens is that
as the layers get compressed
00:12:07.02\00:12:14.50
and compressed, the
melting points changes.
00:12:14.53\00:12:15.90
So any particular
layering there is going to blur.
00:12:15.93\00:12:19.37
But when you look at
the literature, you have
00:12:19.60\00:12:22.90
up in Antarctica, for example,
you've got maybe 30 different
00:12:23.47\00:12:29.21
ice ages supposedly recorded.
00:12:29.24\00:12:31.25
Yet, you go to the Greenland
ice core and there's only
00:12:31.48\00:12:34.48
one ice age recorded.
00:12:34.52\00:12:36.18
So there are major discrepancies
between this ice age data.
00:12:36.22\00:12:39.45
And also the interpretation
becomes very, very blurred.
00:12:39.49\00:12:43.29
And it's actually a very
similar phenomena, in terms of
00:12:43.79\00:12:46.86
when they date these
varves in another area.
00:12:46.90\00:12:50.13
So we look at these lake varves,
and this is where you get these
00:12:50.17\00:12:53.37
little multi-layered layers
that are supposed to represent
00:12:53.40\00:12:57.67
sedimentation that
has occurred with the
00:12:57.71\00:12:59.37
melting snow through the years.
00:12:59.41\00:13:00.98
The whole thing is that...
00:13:01.24\00:13:02.91
And they say that they can date
these back tens of thousands
00:13:03.24\00:13:06.31
of years, and so forth.
00:13:06.35\00:13:07.68
The whole problem is,
that doesn't really work.
00:13:07.72\00:13:10.05
In real life, we have
what is called bioturbulence.
00:13:10.09\00:13:12.55
And bioturbulence
mixes these layers up.
00:13:12.89\00:13:15.96
When you dig down in beach sand
and this sort of thing today,
00:13:15.99\00:13:19.49
you don't see these.
00:13:19.53\00:13:20.86
You see them for, you
know, a meter or so down,
00:13:20.90\00:13:22.86
and then it's all mixed up.
00:13:23.06\00:13:24.43
That's what we've observed.
00:13:24.63\00:13:25.97
So the fact that we observe
these layers in the varves,
00:13:26.00\00:13:28.40
and these sort of
things, represent really
00:13:28.44\00:13:30.81
very short time frame.
00:13:30.84\00:13:32.21
Another fascinating
thing with ice cores is,
00:13:32.51\00:13:35.11
and we can do this calculation,
is that we know that a group of
00:13:35.14\00:13:38.85
bombers ran out of fuel
and landed on one of the
00:13:38.88\00:13:43.15
Greenland glaciers
during World War II.
00:13:43.18\00:13:45.42
Right, so we've got the
data when that happened.
00:13:45.45\00:13:47.16
- They were able to land. ~
There was a plane on the ice.
00:13:47.19\00:13:48.76
They landed on the
ice, the crew got off,
00:13:48.79\00:13:51.13
the planes were left there.
00:13:51.16\00:13:52.49
They had no fuel, you
know. Can't get fuel there.
00:13:52.53\00:13:54.56
They rescued the people.
They left the planes there.
00:13:55.06\00:13:57.73
Now the planes, since
1941 or 1942, whenever it was,
00:13:57.77\00:14:01.84
have been buried, right.
00:14:01.87\00:14:03.20
But a few years ago they
drilled down and they got one.
00:14:03.24\00:14:06.54
Matter of fact,
they got one out.
00:14:06.57\00:14:08.38
But it was under
something like 250 feet of ice.
00:14:08.58\00:14:10.85
Did it still work?
00:14:10.88\00:14:12.21
Well, I mean, I
find that hard...
00:14:12.25\00:14:14.12
That would be
amazing, wouldn't it?
00:14:14.15\00:14:15.48
~ Well, I suppose it
would. ~ It might have evolved.
00:14:15.52\00:14:17.05
~ Well, yeah. It hasn't evolved.
00:14:17.09\00:14:19.52
But the interesting thing was,
if you just do the simple math,
00:14:20.79\00:14:24.89
and you look at how much
snow fell over that plane
00:14:24.93\00:14:29.43
in that particular time, this is
something we can measure today.
00:14:29.46\00:14:32.47
And if people want to apply
the uniformitarian principle,
00:14:32.67\00:14:35.34
let me apply that
uniformitarian principle.
00:14:35.37\00:14:37.74
Then the whole thickness
of the Greenland ice sheet
00:14:37.77\00:14:41.88
would have been deposited less
than two thousand years ago.
00:14:41.91\00:14:44.68
So since the time of Christ.
00:14:44.71\00:14:46.11
So people say to me...
00:14:47.02\00:14:48.35
It could be a lot younger
than a hundred thousand years.
00:14:48.38\00:14:53.05
It could only be a
couple thousand years
00:14:53.09\00:14:54.42
to deposit that amount of ice.
00:14:54.46\00:14:55.79
And people say to me,
"Oh, John, there's a different
00:14:55.99\00:14:58.86
snowfall rate there, you know.
00:14:59.36\00:15:00.96
It's much slower
in these other areas."
00:15:01.00\00:15:03.63
And I say, "Well,
how do you know that?"
00:15:04.33\00:15:06.27
You know, it's not
something you know.
00:15:07.14\00:15:08.54
If I go out and measure
this, it explains everything,
00:15:08.57\00:15:13.68
again, in short time frames.
00:15:13.71\00:15:15.88
And this is an
important point, I think,
00:15:15.98\00:15:17.78
when we need to
look at all this data.
00:15:17.81\00:15:19.71
What does the
data that we can go out
00:15:20.42\00:15:23.08
and measure today tell us?
00:15:23.12\00:15:25.02
And it really all
points to the young ages
00:15:25.89\00:15:29.32
and those positions.
00:15:29.36\00:15:31.09
For example, one of the
guys I met just recently,
00:15:31.56\00:15:34.96
he specializes
in studying fossils,
00:15:35.00\00:15:39.63
and he's done some work at the
whale fossils that they found
00:15:39.67\00:15:43.41
on the mountains in Peru.
00:15:43.51\00:15:45.24
~ On top of the mountains?
00:15:46.04\00:15:47.38
Yes, yes, on the
top of a mountain.
00:15:47.48\00:15:49.08
Not buried, on the top...
00:15:49.11\00:15:52.25
Now whales, although they
can breathe air, they're not
00:15:52.51\00:15:54.95
noted for mountain climbing.
00:15:54.98\00:15:56.55
And there's a whole...
00:15:56.95\00:15:59.25
You know, a pod of
these whales are found there,
00:15:59.29\00:16:01.49
and they're very well preserved.
00:16:01.52\00:16:02.96
The baleen is still
there, it hasn't broken off.
00:16:02.99\00:16:04.99
So obviously
buried very quickly.
00:16:05.33\00:16:06.96
But why up there?
00:16:07.00\00:16:08.56
Why are the whales up there?
00:16:08.86\00:16:10.33
Now this raises a very...
00:16:10.57\00:16:12.97
When we look at
the earth's surface,
00:16:13.00\00:16:14.54
we find crinoid
stems in the limestone,
00:16:14.70\00:16:17.84
and this sort of thing, up
on the top of Mount Everest.
00:16:17.87\00:16:20.14
Now these little creatures
live down in the bottom of
00:16:20.68\00:16:23.81
the water, sort of thing.
00:16:23.85\00:16:25.61
Why are they up there?
00:16:25.88\00:16:27.22
~ So would it be
geological kind of thrusting
00:16:27.25\00:16:29.08
that they talk about?
00:16:29.12\00:16:30.45
Would that have gotten
those whales there to the top?
00:16:30.65\00:16:32.72
Well, that's right.
00:16:32.75\00:16:34.09
So what we have is, we
talk about this picture of
00:16:34.12\00:16:36.12
the flood, right,
and this sort of thing.
00:16:36.16\00:16:38.53
But the flood embraces
a whole catastrophic event
00:16:38.79\00:16:42.73
where God destroyed
the surface of the earth
00:16:43.03\00:16:46.07
at that time and started again.
00:16:46.10\00:16:48.17
And it involves not
only the deluge of water,
00:16:48.20\00:16:51.14
but involves the movement
of probably the continents
00:16:51.17\00:16:54.74
and pushing up
the mountain ranges.
00:16:54.84\00:16:56.54
So the picture that we
get from geology, from what we
00:16:56.58\00:16:59.71
observe today, what we
can go out and measure,
00:16:59.75\00:17:02.55
drill down with our cores,
go out with our little pick
00:17:02.65\00:17:05.49
and see, and photograph today,
00:17:05.52\00:17:07.49
the picture that we have is that
we have these parallel layers
00:17:07.52\00:17:11.29
that were laid down
on top of one another.
00:17:11.69\00:17:13.23
They must have been laid
down very rapidly because
00:17:13.26\00:17:15.70
there's no erosion in between.
00:17:15.73\00:17:17.47
Or they're folded up,
which must have happened
00:17:18.17\00:17:20.40
while they were all soft,
00:17:20.44\00:17:21.77
and so all the
layers must have been soft.
00:17:21.80\00:17:23.61
They rapidly buried a
whole lot of creatures,
00:17:23.87\00:17:26.24
from tiny little
things to really big things,
00:17:26.27\00:17:29.11
that are all mixed up.
00:17:29.21\00:17:30.91
And then after that time
there was massive movement
00:17:31.11\00:17:35.28
on the crust that
pushed up the mountains
00:17:35.32\00:17:38.25
in the different
ranges; the Alps, the Himalayas,
00:17:38.55\00:17:41.19
South American
mountains, and so forth.
00:17:41.22\00:17:43.49
And that's why we find
these fossils up there.
00:17:43.53\00:17:45.73
And then after
that particular time,
00:17:45.93\00:17:48.23
over hundreds of years
there were massive temperature
00:17:48.26\00:17:51.40
cycles as the earth
cooled down, became very cold,
00:17:51.43\00:17:55.77
and then warmed up again.
00:17:56.04\00:17:57.44
And that explains
exactly what we see.
00:17:58.07\00:18:01.34
You know, Dr. John, one of
the things I was wondering is,
00:18:01.91\00:18:05.58
just backtracking a
little bit to the strata,
00:18:05.61\00:18:10.75
the widespread strata,
I heard some people refer
00:18:10.79\00:18:14.36
to that and say this is
evidence to say that the
00:18:14.39\00:18:19.96
continents were previously
connected and then moved apart
00:18:20.00\00:18:22.50
over millions of years.
00:18:22.70\00:18:24.27
What would you say to that?
00:18:24.30\00:18:25.63
~ So the idea of one
earth. ~ Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:25.67\00:18:27.94
Yeah, so what they're saying is,
well that could explain the fact
00:18:28.47\00:18:32.14
that we have similar layers
of strata around the world;
00:18:32.17\00:18:35.94
that these things all sort
of moved apart, and so forth.
00:18:35.98\00:18:38.91
Well, it most certainly could
have been continental drift,
00:18:39.18\00:18:41.58
and it could have been
actual fact quite rapid.
00:18:41.62\00:18:44.45
Particularly if it was
lubricated hydraulically
00:18:44.82\00:18:47.66
with water and so forth.
00:18:47.69\00:18:49.66
I guess we're
getting into space here where
00:18:49.86\00:18:52.33
there's only certain
things that we can know.
00:18:52.53\00:18:54.40
There are things
that we can't know.
00:18:54.43\00:18:56.53
We can make measurements
today and do our best.
00:18:56.56\00:18:59.93
~ But if we
haven't observed it, or...
00:19:00.00\00:19:01.70
~ Yes, yes, but there certainly
could have been movement.
00:19:01.74\00:19:05.07
How that happened,
where the energy came from,
00:19:05.24\00:19:07.84
and this sort of thing;
I understand creationists
00:19:07.88\00:19:09.78
have done models of
this to show that, yeah,
00:19:09.81\00:19:11.85
you could have
very rapid movement,
00:19:11.88\00:19:13.85
and this sort of thing.
00:19:13.88\00:19:15.22
A lot of issues to look at
in those particular models.
00:19:15.25\00:19:19.45
But I think one of the
important points in my reading
00:19:19.65\00:19:21.69
is that the creationist
models that are being developed
00:19:21.72\00:19:24.86
seem to explain things
better than the long age models.
00:19:25.16\00:19:29.23
And particularly,
really, we have so much evidence
00:19:29.26\00:19:31.83
that the long ages
aren't there, you know.
00:19:31.87\00:19:33.44
So they really
can't fall back there.
00:19:33.47\00:19:35.60
Ellie, you've been
very patiently waiting there
00:19:36.50\00:19:39.04
to talk to John with a question.
00:19:39.07\00:19:40.41
Did you have a
comment or a thought for John?
00:19:40.44\00:19:42.64
Yeah, look, going back to
talking about the Grand Canyon
00:19:42.68\00:19:46.48
earlier and the
different layers.
00:19:46.51\00:19:48.28
I'm just wondering
how we know that they were
00:19:48.92\00:19:51.69
deposited under water.
00:19:51.72\00:19:53.05
Is there any other ways
that those layers could have
00:19:53.09\00:19:54.99
been deposited, or
are we sure that it was
00:19:55.02\00:19:57.13
from some kind of
watery catastrophe?
00:19:57.16\00:19:59.66
Yes, we would expect
that the volume of material
00:19:59.69\00:20:03.30
there would have to
be moved under water.
00:20:03.33\00:20:05.37
Of course, sedimentary
rocks does include rocks
00:20:05.40\00:20:08.17
carried by any sort of fluid.
00:20:08.20\00:20:10.31
And so, that could include air.
00:20:10.34\00:20:12.37
But the structures and so forth
are not as likely as the dunes.
00:20:13.61\00:20:18.58
So it very strongly points
to massive movement of water.
00:20:18.61\00:20:23.28
And I think, you know,
geologists would accept that.
00:20:23.32\00:20:26.15
They wouldn't question that.
00:20:26.19\00:20:27.52
Those layers were
laid down underwater.
00:20:27.56\00:20:30.09
at that particular time.
00:20:30.13\00:20:31.56
And to move such
massive amounts of material,
00:20:31.89\00:20:35.13
I mean, some of
the areas cover...
00:20:35.16\00:20:37.00
I mean, one of the things,
I think it's the Chinle...
00:20:37.40\00:20:42.34
I'm not saying that right.
00:20:43.04\00:20:44.37
A deposit, it's over about
2.5 million square kilometers.
00:20:44.41\00:20:51.11
You know, and it's quite
thick, many meters thick.
00:20:52.01\00:20:54.42
So that's a huge
volume of eroded material
00:20:54.45\00:20:58.75
that has to be moved.
00:20:58.79\00:21:00.29
So it's massive
catastrophic conditions.
00:21:00.32\00:21:02.86
It's very different to
anything we've observed,
00:21:02.89\00:21:05.23
like in recent human history.
00:21:05.26\00:21:07.70
I think it's evidence
it's a one-of type event
00:21:07.90\00:21:12.17
that occurred as recorded
in the Bible at that time.
00:21:12.20\00:21:14.94
And in the book, you also
talked about how there was
00:21:15.70\00:21:17.84
some layers which
actually were kind of thrust up
00:21:17.87\00:21:21.78
and moved across
the top of other layers,
00:21:21.81\00:21:24.31
and pointed out the
evidence of how that
00:21:24.91\00:21:27.45
pointed towards the flood.
00:21:27.48\00:21:28.82
Could you just share with
us what the idea was there.
00:21:28.85\00:21:31.99
Yes, well of course, sometimes
they find slabs of rock layers
00:21:32.02\00:21:36.76
that are in the wrong order.
00:21:36.79\00:21:38.43
And so, in order to explain
these, we have over thrusting.
00:21:38.86\00:21:43.10
And this is an area where
there's a bit of contention
00:21:43.20\00:21:45.53
and debate, because
some of these areas,
00:21:45.57\00:21:48.40
you know, the over thrusting
has been for a long way.
00:21:48.44\00:21:52.71
So why didn't the rocks all
break up and this sort of thing?
00:21:52.74\00:21:55.21
~ Because of the
friction and the movement?
00:21:55.24\00:21:56.58
And so, again, the
only possible explanation
00:21:56.61\00:21:59.68
for these big slabs of rock to
move so far with overthrusting
00:21:59.88\00:22:04.49
is that they had to be
hydraulically lubricated.
00:22:04.69\00:22:07.39
Otherwise they're
going to break up.
00:22:07.72\00:22:09.52
One of the other factors,
I guess I haven't mentioned,
00:22:09.62\00:22:12.46
is that there are areas where
there's like a hundred million
00:22:12.49\00:22:16.77
years of layers missing,
and yet there's no signs
00:22:16.80\00:22:22.34
of erosion in between.
00:22:22.37\00:22:23.81
~ Where do they go?
00:22:24.34\00:22:25.84
Well, they're just not there.
00:22:26.44\00:22:27.78
And so, I think one of the
things is that in different
00:22:27.81\00:22:29.58
layers they just weren't
deposited in the first place.
00:22:29.61\00:22:32.41
Yes, it's not that
they were eroded away.
00:22:33.08\00:22:35.18
They just weren't deposited.
00:22:35.22\00:22:36.55
So again, when we
look at all these scenarios
00:22:36.58\00:22:39.15
and these sort of
irregularities, it points
00:22:39.19\00:22:41.26
to the fact that it had to
be a very short-term event.
00:22:41.29\00:22:44.83
You know, not over millions,
not even out thousands of years.
00:22:45.56\00:22:49.06
And then you've
got the examples in the
00:22:49.10\00:22:51.03
Mount St. Helen's eruption
where the canyons formed
00:22:51.07\00:22:56.10
very quickly when
they had an eruption.
00:22:56.14\00:22:58.37
It carved out a
canyon, and the volcanic ash
00:22:58.67\00:23:01.51
that was deposited that
formed all these layers,
00:23:01.54\00:23:04.01
that if you looked at
them you might interpret them
00:23:04.25\00:23:06.55
at multiple tens
of thousands of years,
00:23:06.58\00:23:09.62
yet they formed in a few hours.
00:23:09.65\00:23:11.92
You know, this sort of scenario.
00:23:12.32\00:23:13.66
We've also got
the island of Surtsey
00:23:13.69\00:23:15.39
that exploded again off Iceland.
00:23:15.42\00:23:17.63
You know, the amazing
structures that formed
00:23:19.03\00:23:21.60
with that before the ice age.
00:23:21.63\00:23:23.30
So it showed that,
again, within a few years,
00:23:23.33\00:23:27.24
I think within one year they
had the first plants on Surtsey
00:23:27.44\00:23:30.81
after the surface cooled down.
00:23:30.84\00:23:32.37
And then, you know, within
a few years they had permanent
00:23:32.81\00:23:36.28
plants that were established.
00:23:36.31\00:23:37.65
Now we know with the flood that
the seeds and all this material
00:23:37.68\00:23:42.32
would have been, you know,
washed around and spread around.
00:23:42.35\00:23:44.45
And so, when we saw
Surtsey, and how quickly
00:23:44.79\00:23:48.59
that island, that barren
volcanic island out in the
00:23:48.89\00:23:51.96
middle of the sea got plants
on it, and the plants grew,
00:23:51.99\00:23:55.36
it shows that the
earth could, after the flood,
00:23:56.80\00:24:00.60
reform very quickly.
00:24:00.64\00:24:01.97
Plus, the flood
was a miracle as well.
00:24:02.00\00:24:04.17
And God had a plan
then to destroy the earth.
00:24:04.21\00:24:07.11
But I think when we
look at the science,
00:24:07.14\00:24:09.21
and the bottom line is this,
when we look at the science
00:24:09.24\00:24:12.28
of what we can go
out and measure today,
00:24:12.31\00:24:14.22
it fits the
biblical model to a T.
00:24:14.38\00:24:16.72
Geologists can't explain
these rapid folding strata.
00:24:17.19\00:24:20.16
They can't explain the
fact that there are no erosion
00:24:20.26\00:24:24.06
occurring in between these
layers, and yet these layers
00:24:24.09\00:24:26.66
span millions of years, and yet
they're all flat and parallel.
00:24:26.70\00:24:29.50
You know, they can't...
00:24:29.90\00:24:31.70
~ Even massive coal
beds are hard to explain.
00:24:31.73\00:24:33.54
~ Yes, yes.
00:24:33.57\00:24:34.90
Why that hasn't
decayed over time,
00:24:34.94\00:24:36.27
but that it was compressed.
00:24:36.30\00:24:37.64
~ Yes.
00:24:37.67\00:24:39.01
Recently I saw some research;
it takes a very short amount of
00:24:39.04\00:24:42.84
time to actually form the
coal, relatively speaking.
00:24:42.88\00:24:45.91
And the long ages might
have caused its decline.
00:24:46.31\00:24:48.28
Do you have any
thoughts on that?
00:24:48.32\00:24:49.65
Well, I'm not an expert
on, you know, coal formation,
00:24:50.05\00:24:52.32
but I think the flood
model, again, explains the coal,
00:24:52.35\00:24:55.69
where you have the
heat from the volcanoes,
00:24:55.72\00:24:57.83
all these fossils
massively cleared, the flood,
00:24:57.93\00:25:00.53
they formed together,
you know, and turbulence,
00:25:01.03\00:25:03.33
then get buried and dumped on,
00:25:03.37\00:25:05.13
and get buried.
00:25:05.77\00:25:07.10
So the flood model
certainly explains the coal.
00:25:07.14\00:25:10.27
And the fact that you
have all this timber buried,
00:25:10.31\00:25:14.88
and then the heat to, you
know, coalify it, and so forth.
00:25:14.91\00:25:18.28
Another visually very stunning
thing that we see around the
00:25:19.15\00:25:23.12
world is chalk layers, you know.
00:25:23.15\00:25:26.09
- Oh, yes. -
The Cliffs of Dover.
00:25:26.12\00:25:28.42
White Cliffs of Dover, yes.
00:25:28.46\00:25:29.79
And yeah, just how does that
kind of fit into the flood model
00:25:29.82\00:25:34.10
and also the
geological model as well?
00:25:34.13\00:25:36.36
So that's the Cretaceous.
00:25:36.40\00:25:37.73
And of course, that particular
deposit there spreads from
00:25:37.77\00:25:41.30
Ireland through
to Turkey, you know.
00:25:41.34\00:25:43.47
It's a massive
deposit full of fossils.
00:25:43.67\00:25:46.44
But there are similar chalk
deposits for the Cretaceous:
00:25:46.98\00:25:50.15
the Great
Australian Bight; same period.
00:25:50.18\00:25:52.88
So they're all around the world.
00:25:53.18\00:25:54.92
So again, these deposits
that have these same structures
00:25:54.95\00:25:58.79
all around the world point to
the flood being a global event.
00:25:58.82\00:26:02.12
Impossible to be a series of
little, you know, local floods.
00:26:02.39\00:26:06.19
Because little local
floods wouldn't produce these
00:26:06.23\00:26:08.93
same patterns of strata that
we see around the world today.
00:26:08.96\00:26:13.07
And so, the little local flood
model in all these different
00:26:13.34\00:26:16.94
areas around the
world just doesn't work.
00:26:16.97\00:26:18.94
Everything points
to the biblical model.
00:26:19.84\00:26:22.98
And really, I think
it's a wake-up call.
00:26:23.01\00:26:25.01
Then I think our science
would progress far more rapidly
00:26:25.21\00:26:28.68
if we accepted that
the Bible, in actual fact,
00:26:28.92\00:26:31.69
was inspired by God.
00:26:31.72\00:26:33.49
So, John, as we start to
wrap up and head towards the
00:26:33.52\00:26:36.69
finish of our episode,
could you just summarize
00:26:36.73\00:26:38.73
what is the key evidence
that leads you to believe
00:26:38.76\00:26:41.80
in a global flood?
00:26:41.83\00:26:43.53
The fact that when we look
at the global picture of the
00:26:43.57\00:26:46.57
surface of the earth,
there is this thin layer
00:26:46.60\00:26:48.77
of sedimentary
rock laid down by water.
00:26:48.80\00:26:51.14
We've got all these
massive sedimentary beds
00:26:51.44\00:26:55.14
around here with
parallel rock layers
00:26:55.18\00:26:57.48
in them all laid out.
00:26:58.38\00:26:59.71
We've got all the buried fossils
of all the buried animals.
00:26:59.75\00:27:03.02
To me, it just all points
to one big global catastrophe.
00:27:03.49\00:27:07.32
~ It's amazing.
00:27:07.36\00:27:08.69
You know, so there
really is scientific evidence
00:27:08.72\00:27:11.29
for a global flood.
00:27:11.33\00:27:12.83
And that really builds my faith
and confidence in the Bible.
00:27:13.19\00:27:17.23
And you may be wondering
if there's any other evidence
00:27:17.53\00:27:20.64
that the flood was a
catastrophe that impacted
00:27:20.67\00:27:23.54
our whole entire planet.
00:27:23.57\00:27:24.94
Well, you'll definitely
want to join us next time
00:27:24.97\00:27:27.88
as we explore the
historical evidence
00:27:27.91\00:27:30.88
for a global flood.
00:27:30.91\00:27:32.25
In the meantime, you can
catch up on previous programs
00:27:32.28\00:27:35.88
on our website...
00:27:35.92\00:27:37.25
And the other thing, as well,
if you want to dive into the
00:27:40.49\00:27:42.59
evidence, go to your
favorite online bookstore
00:27:42.62\00:27:45.49
and get one of Dr. John Ashton's
book, Evolution Impossible.
00:27:45.59\00:27:49.86
We look forward to
you joining us next time.
00:27:49.90\00:27:52.53