Hi, I'm Sven  string,
and you are joining us
00:00:36.70\00:00:39.57
for another episode
of, Evolution Impossible;
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a series where we're
exploring whether evolution,
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the major scientific
theory about the origin of life,
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is even possible.
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It's great to have you
back in the studio, Ellie.
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And a new member of our
panel is Justin Torossian.
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~ Good to have
you. - Good to be here.
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And of course, Morgan
Vincent, good friend of mine.
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Thanks for joining us as well.
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And of course, it's really
good to have Dr. John Ashton
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with us once again,
taking us on this journey
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with your expertise
and research as well.
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So it may sound like our
discussion is going to be
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fairly dead today.
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We will be focusing
on the remains of animals
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that are no longer alive.
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But let me assure you that
this is really very interesting.
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And what is really surprising
is that the fossil record
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actually supports the
Bible and not evolution.
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Isn't that amazing.
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So let's jump right
into the deep today.
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And my question for you
at the start, John, is this:
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How are fossils actually formed?
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Right, so the fossils
are the remains of animals
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that have lived in the past
and have died, and have been
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preserved in some way.
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So normally when
animals die, or plant matter,
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plant matter rots
away, it's eaten by bacteria,
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worms, so forth.
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Animals similarly are
eaten by worms, maggots,
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or other animals,
broken down by bacteria.
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So they decay fairly quickly.
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So, for example, a few
years ago we had massive floods
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in Queensland.
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I think an area the
size of the state of
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New South Wales was flooded.
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But it didn't result in a whole
lot of fossilized kangaroos,
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possums, emus,
lizards, and so forth.
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So we require fairly
unique conditions to fossilize
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a previously living organism.
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So tell us, what are
those conditions that we need
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to have fossilization?
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Right, so very
quickly we have to protect
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that organism from
the natural breakdown
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mechanisms or
predators, and so forth.
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And that usually
requires very rapid burial,
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in a way too that is
going to preserve it from
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rotting mechanisms and so forth.
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So very rapid burial is
usually the key situation.
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Now this requires if you have
a large animal like, you know,
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a big dinosaur or
whale, or something like that,
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then you need
enormous amount of material
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to fossilize
something like that.
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But we find fossils of,
you know, insects, plants.
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One of the fascinating things,
of course, is that we find
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fossils of soft
bodied animals like jellyfish
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and octopus, and
this sort of thing.
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So again, here we
require very rapid
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covering of the material
and burying of the material.
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Also we find fossilized
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footprints and
this sort of thing.
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We know, you know, you
go walk along the beach,
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everybody walks along
the beach, it doesn't mean
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that you're going to
leave fossil footprints behind.
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So it requires pretty
unique conditions to do that.
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Other types, particularly
of wood, can become fossilized
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by, once the wood is buried,
it can be prevented by rotting
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as minerals seep
through the rock strata,
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and cell by cell the material
might be replaced by silica.
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And so, this way we can
actually observe the structures,
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internal structures, of
animals and plant matter
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that has lived previously.
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So that's how we know, for
example, about the structure
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of trilobite eyes
and this sort of thing
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that lived, you know, hundreds
of millions of years ago.
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So it's a fascinating process.
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But it only occurs under
unique situations that enable
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very rapid burial.
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And that generally is some sort
of really major catastrophe.
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And so, if we consider sort
of like the Queensland floods,
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that was a major area in
terms of our life, our current,
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you know,
experiences in the world today.
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But what buried whales
and dinosaurs and all these
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massive beds of fossils
that we find where we have
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thousands of
fossilized creatures?
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A catastrophic event
totally unlike anything else
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recorded in human
history other than in
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the flood account of the Bible.
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Very, very interesting.
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Just wanted to ask you,
did you have any questions
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for John about how fossils are
formed, and fossils in general?
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I was interested to know,
Dr. Ashton, I read in your book
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about different graveyards
of fossils that have been found,
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like dinosaur graveyards.
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And I'm interested to
know whether there's ever been
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human fossil graveyards found?
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And if not, why you
think that might be.
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Yes, well that's a
very challenging question.
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We don't find those
human fossil graveyards
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to my knowledge.
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We find occasionally
fossil hominoid species,
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but they're probably interpreted
as being fairly recent,
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I would say, although
they're dated sometimes as
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a couple of million years old.
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But there are isolated
skeletons or remains of
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skeletons that are found.
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Of course, these are the
basis that people argue for
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the evolution of humans
when they find some of these
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hominoid type fossils.
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But no, we don't find
fossil graveyards like that.
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But humans are pretty
intelligent, of course.
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But I don't have
an answer for that.
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I was wondering, you know,
you brought up in this chapter,
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it was very interesting
that 98 to 99 percent
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of the species that we find in
the fossil record are extinct.
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~ Yes. - And I was
amazed to hear that.
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Because evolutionary
theory would suggest
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that you go from very
few and very simple organisms
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to more complex and more
numerous, and more complex
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and more numerous.
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But it seems that the fossil
records suggest the opposite.
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That there were many
more species, you know,
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that existed before than now.
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And so, does that turn
evolutionary theory on its
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head in that sense?
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And if so, how do your
average evolutionary scientists
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explain that?
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~ Well, I don't think...
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Well, I don't know of any
explanation, but it's true.
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What we find in the
fossil record is a record of
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fully formed creatures,
and then they become extinct.
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So the picture that is
portrayed in the textbooks
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and the standard books on
evolution, and this sort of
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thing, is that we have
these layers over time,
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we have these more primitive
creatures at the bottom layers,
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and then as we get up to higher
layers they're more complex.
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And therefore this is
this pattern of evolution
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from simpler creatures up
to more complex, you know,
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more advance creatures
over that period of time.
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So that's what is
portrayed in the textbooks.
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But what we actually find
is very different to that.
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And I guess it's
probably good to understand
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how this whole concept
of geology and paleontology
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came about if we
look at the history.
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Because the history
explains the thinking now
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of how geologists
and paleontologists
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have been taught, and how they
then interpret what they find.
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So if we go back in the
mid 1600's, for example,
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there was a geologist, a
scientist, and he proposed
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that the lowest layers were
older than the upper layers.
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And that's very logical.
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And then he proposed that if
there was a volcanic intrusion
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that went through
those, that had to happen after
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all those layers were laid down.
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And again, that all makes sense.
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And then there was a guy who
was a contractor digging canals
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in London and Europe, William
Smith in the late 1700's,
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and he was very observant.
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His men were digging
the canals and he noticed,
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"Well look, I've got
a layer of rocks here."
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It might be a
mudstone, then a limestone,
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and then a shale,
and then a conglomerate,
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and then another mudstone.
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And he observed this same
pattern when he was digging
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canals over in France.
00:09:02.07\00:09:03.64
And he also noticed that they
had certain fossils in them.
00:09:03.97\00:09:06.34
And he proposed that from the
fossils in a particular layer,
00:09:06.37\00:09:10.35
you could identify that strata.
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And that strata was not
just local, it was wide spread.
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You know, so the same strata
in England were over in France.
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Now about 30 or so years
later, Lyell was doing research
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in the Alps, and he
observed all these layers.
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And the fossils again seemed to
be more, or the creatures seemed
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to be more complex, or
higher sort of creatures.
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The higher up the
layers, they were more complex.
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And of course, this
meant that they were younger
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or further along
in our timescale.
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And he proposed that
these fossils could be actually
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used to identify
the layers worldwide
00:09:49.78\00:09:52.35
in the geologic column.
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And so, hence they set up this
dating system of the columns.
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They were set up that way.
00:09:58.89\00:10:00.53
So when scientists
look at these fossils now,
00:10:01.06\00:10:06.67
they're interpreting
them in terms of these ages.
00:10:07.10\00:10:11.61
Now these ages were
actually calculated on the basis
00:10:11.64\00:10:14.98
of the thickness of the deposit.
00:10:15.14\00:10:17.15
So if you had a deposit
that might be a kilometer deep
00:10:17.55\00:10:21.25
and had millions of
layers, then Lyell proposed,
00:10:21.28\00:10:25.55
well that must be
millions of years old
00:10:25.59\00:10:27.72
because these
layers probably represented
00:10:27.76\00:10:29.66
annual layers coming down.
00:10:29.76\00:10:31.43
Another geologist, James Hutton,
had proposed around again
00:10:31.73\00:10:37.03
in the late 1700's that
the processes on earth were
00:10:37.07\00:10:41.37
millions of years old and
it happened very gradually.
00:10:41.40\00:10:44.07
So when scientists look at
these particular situations,
00:10:44.81\00:10:50.55
this is the way
we're taught in university.
00:10:50.75\00:10:54.82
You know, I can
remember actually I got a high
00:10:56.22\00:10:58.79
distinction in stratigraphy
when I was doing geology.
00:10:58.82\00:11:02.02
And when we look
at these structures,
00:11:02.42\00:11:05.66
that's how we
interpret those fossils layers;
00:11:05.76\00:11:08.76
as over long periods of time.
00:11:08.80\00:11:10.37
Now when Darwin's
theory is superimposed on this,
00:11:10.40\00:11:13.10
the whole thing is, oh,
well this is the gradual
00:11:13.30\00:11:15.47
progression of creatures.
00:11:15.50\00:11:18.31
And that's what
is in their mind.
00:11:18.57\00:11:19.91
When we step back,
though, and we look at it,
00:11:19.94\00:11:22.78
and we find, well hang on,
there's actually no evolutionary
00:11:23.45\00:11:28.08
development of
particular animals.
00:11:28.12\00:11:30.59
So for example, you've got
trilobites, which are those
00:11:30.62\00:11:33.76
little sort of like
pill bug type creatures
00:11:33.79\00:11:36.49
that lived at the bottom
and that had segmented bodies,
00:11:36.52\00:11:39.19
lots of legs, big
head, very complex eyes.
00:11:39.23\00:11:44.47
A lot of genetic code.
00:11:44.83\00:11:46.30
Their digestive
system, all this sort of thing.
00:11:46.33\00:11:48.44
And they're right at the very
lower of the Cambrian rocks,
00:11:49.07\00:11:53.54
which are among the
oldest fossil bearing rocks.
00:11:53.74\00:11:56.38
And then under them we
can find thousands of meters,
00:11:56.41\00:12:01.68
well thousands of feet,
a thousand meters or so,
00:12:01.92\00:12:04.79
of layers of rock
with no fossils in them.
00:12:04.82\00:12:08.26
So they just
suddenly appear fully formed.
00:12:08.29\00:12:11.66
And it's the same with
insects, flying insects,
00:12:11.69\00:12:15.03
that just suddenly
appear in the fossil record.
00:12:15.06\00:12:17.27
Flowering plants,
they just suddenly appear.
00:12:17.30\00:12:20.14
They don't change.
00:12:20.40\00:12:21.84
And then they become extinct.
00:12:22.40\00:12:24.21
And this whole pattern,
as you talked about earlier,
00:12:24.87\00:12:28.81
is a pattern of extinction.
00:12:29.38\00:12:31.08
Al these creatures are
there, they don't change,
00:12:31.11\00:12:35.45
and then they're extinct
and we don't see them again.
00:12:35.98\00:12:39.12
And as you say, 98% to
99% of all the creatures
00:12:39.15\00:12:45.09
that have been
preserved as fossils,
00:12:45.13\00:12:47.73
and we know living
today, are now extinct.
00:12:47.83\00:12:51.80
It's huge.
00:12:52.00\00:12:53.34
And it's directly
opposite, as you were saying,
00:12:53.37\00:12:56.14
to what the theory of
evolution would teach.
00:12:56.17\00:12:58.44
But because scientists
are enamored with this
00:12:58.71\00:13:01.81
gradual progression and
that evolution occurred,
00:13:01.84\00:13:04.55
that thinking is
just superimposed
00:13:04.81\00:13:06.82
and I guess
they're just blinded to it.
00:13:06.85\00:13:08.32
And it's never questioned.
00:13:08.35\00:13:09.95
So John, where can we
go to actually see this
00:13:10.95\00:13:13.76
geological column?
00:13:13.79\00:13:15.12
Is there a place where we
can see the entire column?
00:13:15.16\00:13:18.66
No, well as far as
I know, there is no
00:13:18.69\00:13:21.86
complete section of column.
00:13:22.16\00:13:23.50
There's a big slab, of course,
exposed in the Grand Canyon.
00:13:23.53\00:13:27.27
There's a section there on
the east face, I think it is,
00:13:28.87\00:13:33.17
that covers about
300 million years,
00:13:33.68\00:13:37.55
conventional
dating sort of thing.
00:13:37.58\00:13:40.15
And one of the
fascinating aspects of that,
00:13:41.55\00:13:43.45
again this fits the flood model.
00:13:43.49\00:13:45.25
See, the geology textbooks
tell us that there are about
00:13:45.29\00:13:51.76
five extinction
events that occurred.
00:13:51.79\00:13:55.10
But they space them.
00:13:56.23\00:13:57.73
There's one
extinction event they date
00:13:58.20\00:14:00.14
about 450 million years ago,
00:14:00.17\00:14:01.97
another one about
400 million years ago,
00:14:02.00\00:14:03.91
another one 250
million years ago,
00:14:03.94\00:14:06.14
another one 200
million years ago,
00:14:06.17\00:14:07.98
and another one 65 million years
at the end of the Cretaceous.
00:14:08.08\00:14:11.48
So the geologists acknowledge
that these were global
00:14:11.88\00:14:18.95
extinction
events involving water.
00:14:19.15\00:14:22.32
~ Hmm, interesting.
00:14:22.36\00:14:23.69
Involving water. It's amazing.
00:14:23.73\00:14:25.66
Right.
00:14:25.69\00:14:27.03
Now okay, they're dated,
as we can see, up to hundreds
00:14:27.06\00:14:30.87
of millions of years apart.
00:14:30.90\00:14:32.50
But the thing is, if we look at
that Grand Canyon section there,
00:14:33.30\00:14:36.44
we've got 300 million
years of parallel layers
00:14:36.47\00:14:42.31
conformably laying
on top of one another.
00:14:42.34\00:14:44.35
Now by the way, "conformably,"
geologists mean there's no
00:14:44.38\00:14:47.68
signs of erosion in between.
00:14:47.72\00:14:49.62
~ Interesting.
00:14:49.65\00:14:50.99
This just blows the whole
concept of million years of age.
00:14:51.02\00:14:55.16
You know, I've got
a gravel driveway...
00:14:55.19\00:14:56.66
What would the evolutionist's
explanation be for those layers
00:14:56.69\00:15:00.60
where there's no
erosion in between the layers?
00:15:00.63\00:15:03.06
Well I don't
think they have one.
00:15:03.10\00:15:04.57
- There is no answer. -
This is the whole puzzle.
00:15:04.60\00:15:07.64
There's a few paleontologists
and people that speak out
00:15:07.67\00:15:12.34
about this, you know;
and this is a major problem.
00:15:12.37\00:15:15.34
And they recognize, well
hang on, we don't actually see
00:15:15.74\00:15:19.08
evolution occurring
in the fossil layers.
00:15:19.11\00:15:22.32
We just see, you know, animals
formed, they stay the same,
00:15:22.42\00:15:26.15
they then become extinct.
00:15:26.99\00:15:28.42
And also, we don't see this
erosion occurring in between.
00:15:28.86\00:15:34.26
And so, the answer they
have runs along the lines,
00:15:34.63\00:15:39.07
well, these conditions
must have been laid down
00:15:39.10\00:15:42.04
under or in some sort of
lake, and it was very uniform,
00:15:42.07\00:15:46.37
it was very contained.
00:15:46.41\00:15:48.01
And so over this long period
of time, yeah, it was just
00:15:48.21\00:15:51.08
stable for a
long period of time.
00:15:51.11\00:15:52.58
But these same
layers that span this period
00:15:53.15\00:15:57.25
also contain
fossils of dinosaurs.
00:15:57.62\00:16:00.76
You know, great big
animals that we know
00:16:01.26\00:16:03.83
have to be buried under
catastrophic conditions.
00:16:04.03\00:16:06.90
And so, this is the
major problem that they have.
00:16:07.23\00:16:10.03
We've got no erosion
in between the layers,
00:16:10.07\00:16:13.03
and yet we have to bury
these animals like big whales,
00:16:13.87\00:16:18.04
dinosaurs,
stegosaurus, you know, that are
00:16:18.07\00:16:20.31
sort of 30 meters
long, and this sort of thing.
00:16:20.34\00:16:22.44
- That would have been
buried in flood type events.
00:16:22.48\00:16:24.31
Well, you have to have a
massive catastrophic event
00:16:24.35\00:16:28.35
to bury those things.
00:16:28.55\00:16:29.98
But the other thing that
we find too in these layers
00:16:30.59\00:16:33.46
that, again,
conformably sit on one another,
00:16:33.49\00:16:36.12
we can find cross-bedding.
00:16:36.22\00:16:37.79
Now cross-bedding, if
you'll imagine a sand dune,
00:16:38.06\00:16:40.40
and you're blowing
sand over the top of it,
00:16:40.43\00:16:42.83
you get a layer
here, and a layer here.
00:16:42.86\00:16:44.60
And so this
layer is on an angle.
00:16:44.63\00:16:46.23
From this angle we
can actually calculate
00:16:46.27\00:16:49.07
the velocities of the
fluid that is causing the dune.
00:16:49.10\00:16:52.54
Now the same
effect occurs under water.
00:16:52.57\00:16:54.91
And from the slope of
these and the study of these
00:16:55.01\00:16:58.65
bedding angles, no not
bedding, cross-bedding,
00:16:58.68\00:17:02.15
we can actually calculate
the speed of the water.
00:17:02.18\00:17:04.39
And the speeds of the
water are equivalent to
00:17:04.42\00:17:08.59
what you get in a
tsunami type scenario.
00:17:09.39\00:17:12.56
The other thing is too,
when we look at these beds,
00:17:12.93\00:17:15.46
like that are
exposed in the Grand Canyon,
00:17:15.50\00:17:18.03
like if you look at
the Morrison Formation
00:17:18.27\00:17:21.44
that goes through there,
this is a massive formation.
00:17:21.47\00:17:25.74
Over 1.5 million
square kilometers.
00:17:25.77\00:17:29.18
~ So this is a huge.
00:17:29.21\00:17:30.55
1.5 million square
kilometers is huge.
00:17:30.58\00:17:33.01
It spreads from New
Mexico up to Canada.
00:17:33.05\00:17:36.25
Right, that's a huge slab.
00:17:36.65\00:17:38.72
And so, we have
water that's been carried,
00:17:38.82\00:17:42.09
the material that has
been carried and spread
00:17:42.29\00:17:45.43
as a thin layer over
this massive area of land.
00:17:45.46\00:17:48.50
This is no little lake
sediment sort of settling down.
00:17:48.70\00:17:52.33
This is a massive event.
00:17:52.53\00:17:54.84
And as I said, so we have
this massive event occurring
00:17:55.34\00:18:00.88
at these different times.
00:18:00.91\00:18:02.24
The other fascinating
thing that often isn't portrayed
00:18:02.68\00:18:05.58
is that if we look at
the surface of the earth,
00:18:05.81\00:18:08.48
only about 5% of the earth's
crust is sedimentary rock;
00:18:09.22\00:18:13.46
that is, rock
laid down under water.
00:18:13.49\00:18:15.12
~ So it's a very thin layer?
00:18:15.16\00:18:16.62
Well, there's a thin layer
of crust, about the thickness
00:18:16.93\00:18:20.56
comparatively of
an eggshell on an egg.
00:18:20.60\00:18:22.53
That's the earth's crust.
00:18:22.56\00:18:24.00
But only about 5% of that
crust is sedimentary rock.
00:18:24.53\00:18:30.31
So only a very
small percentage of it.
00:18:30.34\00:18:32.24
But yet, 75% of the
earth's surface is covered
00:18:32.54\00:18:37.65
with sedimentary rock.
00:18:37.88\00:18:39.48
And so, what it means is that
we've got this very thin layer
00:18:39.98\00:18:44.05
of sedimentary rock
spread all over the earth.
00:18:44.09\00:18:47.36
Matter of fact, at
the end of the Cretaceous,
00:18:47.82\00:18:49.76
the textbooks tell us the entire
earth was covered by water.
00:18:49.79\00:18:53.06
~ So you sort of think...
00:18:53.09\00:18:54.43
So it's the
Noah's flood scenario.
00:18:54.46\00:18:56.73
So if you're thinking that
the earth was billions of years,
00:18:57.03\00:19:00.27
you'd think that the sedimentary
layers would be much thicker.
00:19:00.30\00:19:03.34
There would be more
layers than just this small
00:19:03.37\00:19:06.21
amount that we actually have.
00:19:06.24\00:19:07.64
Well, I think it's more that,
what they're saying is that
00:19:07.84\00:19:10.75
there's got to be gradual
processes that have occurred
00:19:10.78\00:19:15.02
over a period of time
and that they are more of
00:19:15.32\00:19:17.85
a series of localized floods.
00:19:17.89\00:19:19.69
But the other scientific
observation that mitigates
00:19:20.06\00:19:23.39
against that is, that we find
the same pattern of rock layers
00:19:23.43\00:19:28.70
all over the world.
00:19:28.73\00:19:30.40
And so your layers of
quartzite, conglomerates,
00:19:30.60\00:19:34.17
and so forth, this same pattern,
same pattern of limestone
00:19:34.20\00:19:37.21
and this sort of thing.
00:19:37.24\00:19:38.57
If there are a whole series
of local floods and local lakes,
00:19:38.61\00:19:41.54
and all this sort of
thing, that laid down all these
00:19:41.58\00:19:43.75
beautiful parallel layers,
you wouldn't expect to find
00:19:43.78\00:19:46.88
the same ones in Europe,
North America, Australia,
00:19:46.92\00:19:49.08
South Africa, and Asia.
00:19:49.12\00:19:50.45
Right?
00:19:50.49\00:19:51.82
And so, the evidence is
so clear that we had a global
00:19:51.85\00:19:56.73
catastrophic event and it buried
all these animals all at once.
00:19:56.83\00:20:01.66
So this period of time that
they spread over 450 million...
00:20:01.70\00:20:07.24
Or was it from 450 to 65?
00:20:07.27\00:20:10.44
400 million years, thereabouts.
00:20:10.47\00:20:12.47
All those
different extinction events,
00:20:13.07\00:20:15.24
we have all this
overwhelming evidence
00:20:15.28\00:20:17.58
that it must have
been at the same time.
00:20:17.68\00:20:20.12
Otherwise, we'd have
massive erosion in between.
00:20:20.98\00:20:23.89
Massive erosion in between.
00:20:24.25\00:20:26.29
That's an
amazing amount of detail.
00:20:26.32\00:20:27.86
Morgan, we do want to bring you
into the conversation as well.
00:20:27.89\00:20:30.63
So, do you have any
questions for John today?
00:20:30.66\00:20:33.43
Sure, yeah, touching on
what we've spoken about so far,
00:20:33.46\00:20:36.63
just a question surrounding
the time frame of the fossils.
00:20:36.83\00:20:40.44
Often science is something
to be testable, observable.
00:20:40.94\00:20:44.81
And we can see these
large, very large time frames.
00:20:45.11\00:20:48.81
How do we reconcile that
with realizing that, you know,
00:20:48.91\00:20:53.18
was someone there to
observe 450 million years ago?
00:20:53.21\00:20:56.89
~ Yeah, sure.
00:20:57.12\00:20:58.45
So this is very interesting.
00:20:58.49\00:21:00.69
Those time scales are
based on the uniformitarian
00:21:00.72\00:21:04.93
principle; assuming
that the surface of the earth
00:21:05.93\00:21:09.96
after millions of years
has undergone steady processes.
00:21:10.00\00:21:13.94
And so, when they
count up all the layers,
00:21:14.24\00:21:17.41
that's what they've done.
00:21:17.81\00:21:19.14
They've look at sedimentary
layers, they've counted up
00:21:19.17\00:21:21.68
how many of those
we've got per meter,
00:21:21.71\00:21:24.18
and then we've got something
that's a thousand meters thick,
00:21:24.38\00:21:27.05
so therefore it must be so
many millions of years old.
00:21:27.08\00:21:29.52
But just by calculation.
00:21:29.72\00:21:31.29
And that's how the geologic
column was essentially dated
00:21:31.32\00:21:34.76
by Lyell and the
geologists that followed him.
00:21:34.79\00:21:38.43
It was simply on the basis
of the thickness of the layers.
00:21:38.53\00:21:42.50
And there's no
place on the earth where
00:21:42.90\00:21:44.93
the entire column is there.
00:21:44.97\00:21:46.33
Sections are
exposed in different areas.
00:21:46.37\00:21:49.10
So they measure the thickness
in the different layers,
00:21:49.14\00:21:52.04
and they'd say, "Look, the
top of this layer we've got
00:21:52.07\00:21:54.44
this particular fossil.
00:21:54.48\00:21:55.81
That particular
fossil corresponds to the
00:21:55.84\00:21:57.81
bottom of that particular layer.
00:21:57.85\00:21:59.35
So we're going to
put that on top of that."
00:21:59.38\00:22:01.48
And we kept on adding these.
00:22:01.52\00:22:03.08
And we assign then ages to
the particular types of fossils
00:22:03.28\00:22:08.19
that are used to
identify the layers.
00:22:08.22\00:22:10.09
So that's how the
different layers you hear about;
00:22:10.13\00:22:12.39
Jurassic, Ordovician, and
all of this, and so forth,
00:22:12.43\00:22:14.86
Jurassic, Cretaceous, all these
sort of particular periods,
00:22:15.10\00:22:18.97
they are characterized
by particular fossils
00:22:19.23\00:22:22.07
that are the key fossils that
label those particular layers.
00:22:22.37\00:22:27.38
And that's how those
ages were worked out.
00:22:27.58\00:22:29.81
Now later on we can talk
about radiometric dating,
00:22:29.91\00:22:34.22
but radiometric dating gives
a wide variability of results.
00:22:34.25\00:22:39.45
And generally they can
find a result that will
00:22:39.65\00:22:42.39
match the fossil age.
00:22:42.42\00:22:43.76
And once that happened
in the 1940's in particular,
00:22:43.79\00:22:47.36
that more or less
cemented these time scales.
00:22:47.40\00:22:49.73
But there's a lot of
problems with these time scales
00:22:50.07\00:22:52.83
that we can discuss
probably another time.
00:22:52.87\00:22:55.30
Dr. Ashton, I'm curious to
know, taking you back to the
00:22:55.67\00:23:00.18
fossils that are found
in the different rock layers
00:23:00.21\00:23:02.74
and the different time periods
that they assign to those,
00:23:02.78\00:23:05.31
it seems obvious to me
from what you've already said
00:23:06.18\00:23:08.08
that it doesn't
support evolutionary theory,
00:23:08.12\00:23:10.25
but I'm curious to know
what the creationist theory is
00:23:10.29\00:23:13.02
about why there's
different types of fossils
00:23:13.05\00:23:16.22
found in the
different rock layers,
00:23:16.26\00:23:17.59
and how those
animals got separated.
00:23:17.63\00:23:19.39
Is there a
particular explanation to that?
00:23:19.63\00:23:22.83
Okay, now there's
two aspects to that.
00:23:23.13\00:23:25.77
And firstly, down at the very
bottom layers we tend to find
00:23:25.80\00:23:29.47
creatures that
lived under water.
00:23:29.50\00:23:31.57
They lived at the ocean bottom.
00:23:32.24\00:23:33.58
And fair enough, that's
where we would expect to
00:23:33.61\00:23:36.08
find them in those layers.
00:23:36.11\00:23:37.45
But the other thing
is, that the fossil layers
00:23:37.58\00:23:39.65
are much more mixed
up than we see these
00:23:39.68\00:23:42.95
nice clear outlines.
00:23:42.98\00:23:45.69
For example...
00:23:45.72\00:23:47.06
So it's a real simplification
of the fossil record
00:23:47.09\00:23:49.52
to have this gradual transition.
00:23:49.56\00:23:51.89
And earlier on, we
need to remember that these
00:23:51.93\00:23:55.03
key fossils were set up fairly
early on before, you know,
00:23:55.93\00:24:00.44
all the fossils
had been discovered.
00:24:00.47\00:24:02.67
And there were major issues.
00:24:03.24\00:24:04.71
For example, they found fossils,
polystrate fossils, for example,
00:24:04.74\00:24:08.54
in Nova Scotia, a classic
example, where you've got
00:24:08.58\00:24:11.61
trees going through a
whole series of layers.
00:24:11.65\00:24:14.48
And then inside the trees
they find the remains of animals
00:24:14.85\00:24:18.35
that have been washed
in there, and so forth.
00:24:18.39\00:24:20.16
So what about the explanation
that somehow the trees just
00:24:20.36\00:24:23.99
got jammed in by a violent kind
of force, volcanic activity,
00:24:24.03\00:24:27.66
just straight down
through the geological column?
00:24:27.70\00:24:30.27
Does that sort of
count, does that make sense
00:24:30.30\00:24:33.30
in terms of why the
trees are all the way through?
00:24:33.34\00:24:36.91
Well no, I think studies
that might have happened after
00:24:37.64\00:24:40.34
Mount St. Helens and
so forth suggest that, no,
00:24:40.54\00:24:42.91
these trees are there,
they are floating in the water,
00:24:42.94\00:24:45.11
and then they're sort of buried.
00:24:45.15\00:24:46.48
And that's why they
tend to be more vertical.
00:24:46.51\00:24:50.15
But the other thing is, yes, the
fossils are far more mixed up.
00:24:50.32\00:24:53.62
For example, there are
lots of mammals that existed
00:24:53.66\00:24:58.09
at the same time as dinosaurs.
00:24:58.13\00:25:00.13
And in some of the huge fossil
beds in Mongolia, for example,
00:25:00.23\00:25:04.27
we find this; we find the
fossils of mammals mixed up
00:25:04.30\00:25:07.57
with the fossils of dinosaurs,
and this sort of thing.
00:25:07.60\00:25:09.77
But one of the guys, Dr. Carl
Werner, published some books,
00:25:10.04\00:25:15.41
and he did a study
of museum displays.
00:25:15.44\00:25:18.95
And he reports that in
none of the museum displays
00:25:19.05\00:25:21.68
did he see mammals on
display with dinosaurs.
00:25:21.72\00:25:25.65
They were always sort of
as being occurring later,
00:25:25.69\00:25:28.59
but yet they're mixed up.
00:25:28.62\00:25:29.96
And this is the thing,
that they tend to be mixed up
00:25:29.99\00:25:32.93
much more, and not as
separated as often portrayed.
00:25:33.03\00:25:41.54
~ Very interesting.
00:25:41.57\00:25:42.90
So how would evolutionists
explain the fact that you have
00:25:43.14\00:25:46.34
dinosaurs and mammals in
the same geological layer?
00:25:46.37\00:25:51.31
What would their
explanation for that be?
00:25:52.08\00:25:55.08
Well, they have to accept that
they had evolved by that stage.
00:25:55.18\00:25:58.95
- Don't they? - Right.
00:25:58.99\00:26:00.32
Look, there are so many
problems with the standard
00:26:00.76\00:26:04.53
paleontological
long age interpretation.
00:26:05.23\00:26:08.43
There are absolutely
massive problems with it.
00:26:08.46\00:26:10.83
But they've got
nowhere else to go
00:26:11.03\00:26:12.90
other than, you
know, the Bible record.
00:26:13.00\00:26:15.40
I mean, up to
the 1830's and 1840's
00:26:15.44\00:26:18.54
flood geology was
taught in British universities,
00:26:18.74\00:26:22.01
most European universities,
and it made a lot of sense.
00:26:22.04\00:26:25.81
But the attempt to accommodate
Darwinian evolution and stretch
00:26:25.91\00:26:29.78
everything out, we run
into a whole lot of problems.
00:26:29.82\00:26:33.66
And really, the best fit of the
data is Noah's flood exactly.
00:26:33.89\00:26:37.43
It fits the data perfectly.
00:26:37.46\00:26:39.43
I have one other
question for you Dr. Ashton,
00:26:40.00\00:26:42.50
just regarding the
way fossils are dated.
00:26:42.83\00:26:45.43
And you mentioned that
evolutionists usually use
00:26:45.63\00:26:48.64
uniformitarianism.
00:26:48.84\00:26:50.34
They assume that everything
was the same in the past
00:26:50.37\00:26:52.57
as it is today.
00:26:52.61\00:26:53.94
And I'm wondering why
they use uniformitarianism
00:26:53.98\00:26:56.95
when they themselves believe
in things like ice ages and
00:26:56.98\00:26:59.71
that kind of thing that would
obviously skew those results?
00:26:59.91\00:27:03.05
Well, that's a question
that we will have to look at
00:27:03.45\00:27:05.65
in our next episode.
00:27:05.69\00:27:07.02
And so, the fossil
record is actually evidence
00:27:07.06\00:27:10.23
of extinction and not evolution.
00:27:10.26\00:27:12.89
That's quite an
eye opening insight.
00:27:13.13\00:27:15.23
And with another key beam in the
theory of evolution collapsing,
00:27:15.60\00:27:19.13
where does that
leave the theory?
00:27:19.17\00:27:21.04
I'd highly recommend
that you go to your favorite
00:27:21.34\00:27:23.91
online bookstore and
get Dr. John Ashton's book,
00:27:23.94\00:27:26.91
Evolution Impossible.
00:27:26.94\00:27:28.34
You know, as
Ellie was pointing out,
00:27:28.94\00:27:30.65
there's so many
details about the fossils
00:27:30.68\00:27:32.85
that we just
could not talk about.
00:27:32.88\00:27:34.68
But don't worry, his
book is easy to understand.
00:27:34.72\00:27:37.99
We'll be continuing our
investigation of evolution
00:27:38.29\00:27:41.06
next time, looking to
see whether the fossil record
00:27:41.09\00:27:44.03
shows the evolutionary
links which are needed.
00:27:44.13\00:27:46.96
Now if you've missed
any of our past programs,
00:27:47.00\00:27:49.33
you can go to the 3ABN
website and watch them there.
00:27:49.36\00:27:52.90
We look forward to
seeing you next time.
00:27:52.93\00:27:55.07