We're back on the
journey of Evolution Impossible;
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an exciting journey
where we are exploring
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whether one of the
biggest theories about the
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origin of life is even possible.
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I'm Dr. Sven  string, and I'm
glad you can join us once again.
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Together with me today in
the studio is Melvin Sandelin.
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~ Good to have you. - Pleasure.
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Tim Turner. Great to
have you back with us.
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And of course, Blair Lemke,
representing the young adults.
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Good to have
you with us as well.
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And of course, Dr. John Ashton.
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It's good to have
you back in the studio.
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And you know, isn't it
amazing to have an expert
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like Dr. Ashton with us as
we go on this journey together.
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You know, today we're talking
about one of the most important
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components of Darwin's theory
of evolution: random mutations.
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And I must admit that every time
I hear the word, "mutations,"
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I immediately think, mutants,
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and the picture of
those turtles with headbands
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who can fight with swords.
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What was their name again?
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- Teenage mutant ninja
turtles. ~ That's it, guys.
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You know, but seriously.
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You know, the fact is that
Darwin believed that we all
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evolved through a
series of genetic mutations.
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We're all mutants
of a common ancestor.
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But tell us, John,
what are genetic mutations,
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and how do they come about?
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Well, yes, they're
where we get changes to the
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genetic code, DNA, that
are caused by some sort of
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extraneous
chemical reaction usually.
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But one of the things, as
I've looked at the introduction
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there of those
amazing creatures,
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those tall forest trees, the
hummingbird, and the butterfly,
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all those different structures,
according to the theory of
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evolution, arose
by chance in a code.
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And one of the important
things is that the code
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looks nothing like the creature.
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So for example, if we write
the word, "apple," we write,
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a- p-p-l-e, or if it's
in French, maybe, p-o-m-m-e.
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But that code and those
letters don't look anything
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like an apple.
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But to us they represent
an apple because our mind
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reads that code and we
interpret that as an apple,
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and may even
visualize that in our mind.
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So the important thing to
recognize is that the code
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for all those amazing
structures that we saw;
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the tree, the birds,
the butterfly, the flowers,
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the plants, beetles,
insects, all these things,
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the codes to make
those complete organisms
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are represented by a code
that looks nothing like them.
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And I think one of the
fallacies that people adopt
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or misconceptions
that people adopt is that
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some sort of physical change,
like there might be a drought,
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and therefore a fish
that was able to somehow
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pull itself across to the
next pond had stronger limbs and
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over time evolved sort of a
shoulder blade and arm system.
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And that's how fish
slowly evolved into amphibians.
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This sort of scenario that's
painted by some evolutionists.
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We need to understand that
the code is totally unrelated
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to the physical environment
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and is formed by
total random mutations.
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So it's sort of like if
we take the word, "fin,"
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and we've got to now apply
a mutation to it to make it
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into the word, "arm."
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But if look at the
word, f- i-n and a-r-m,
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they're totally new letters.
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So those totally new
letters have to arise by chance
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in the code.
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But the code doesn't know
that it needs those new letters
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because it doesn't
know that that is going to
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solve the problem.
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And when we look at the
probability of those codes
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arising by chance, as
we've already discussed
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in previous programs,
it's absolutely impossible,
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you know, the chances
of these random mutations.
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The other important
aspect is that these mutations
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are pure chemical mutations.
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Because some of my
detractors have said at times,
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"Well, yeah,
Ashton is a chemist.
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What would he know about this?"
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But what we need to
understand is that evolution
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is underpinned by
chemical reactions.
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And these are chemical reactions
that we call, mutations,
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that can cause
changes to the code.
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Now, there are different
types of mutations that may
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involve, for
example, replication of parts
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of the code, or
deletions of parts of the code,
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these sort of things.
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But if we're going to
produce totally new information,
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we have to actually
produce totally new code.
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And then that code has to work.
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So you've got your DNA, you
have got this string of letters,
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A, C,T, G, and on it
goes, and so the mutations
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are where you
kind of switch letters,
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or combinations of letters,
or whole words, shall I say.
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Is that what is
happening with mutations?
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Is that correct?
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Well, you can get that
type of mutation that occurs.
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And there are many
different types of mutations.
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So evolution talks about...
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Well, textbooks talk
about evolution occurring.
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The most common examples
that are listed in textbooks
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on evolution are where pieces
of code are being deleted.
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Some become
damaged, and therefore,
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they're not operable in any way.
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And so they no longer
function within that organism.
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And so, for example,
Darwin's wingless beetles.
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So the codes to
produce perfectly the wing,
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part of that
code became damaged.
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The wings didn't
form, you know, properly.
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Or it may be deletion for a
pigment, or something like that.
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So the mutations
which are damaged,
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or the DNA which is damaged,
is that what the geneticists
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would say is junk DNA?
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- Is that where...
- Oh no, no, no, no.
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The junk DNA is DNA that
they didn't really understand
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how it played a part
in producing the organism
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in terms of genes.
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So the so called junk
DNA is really other codes
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that they couldn't relate
to any particular function
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or structure at the time.
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But we now know it's associated
with switching on and off
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particular genes
that can be affected
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by environmental pressures.
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So one of the
things that we have is,
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we have these pieces of code,
but we also have pieces of code
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that switch on pieces of code.
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And so, there's a lot of
dormant code that is sitting
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in DNA that has
potential to be switched on.
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And of course, this fits the
biblical position of creation,
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that when God originally
created all the different kinds,
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and the kinds are simply species
that can interbreed in some way,
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there was a huge
amount of genetic diversity.
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And part of this genetic
diversity would have been
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codes that weren't
even switched on yet,
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but later had the
potential to be switched on.
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And they can be switched on by
simple environmental pressures,
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just physical pressure
or stress within the body.
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Changes in blood pressure
and these sort of things
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can trigger the
switching on and off of genes.
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As can particular
chemicals in the environment
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and environmental pressures.
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So it's a very complex system,
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and the
environment plays a part.
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But all these systems
use pre-existing code.
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And that's an important point.
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But certainly, gene
deletion is a common mutation
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generally
responsible for disease.
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~ Right, right. - Yeah.
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Yeah, as you said,
incredibly complex.
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And I just wanted to
check before we go on,
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did you have any questions
on what John has described
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in terms of
genetics and mutations?
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Yeah, I was curious, you
mentioned that all the genetic
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information is pre-existing
genetic information.
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Is that to say that
there has not been observed
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the creation of new
genetic information?
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~ Exactly.
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Now I guess, to get
back to the mutation thing,
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we can have mutations where
part of the code is damaged,
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and therefore
doesn't work anymore.
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It's very common.
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We can also have duplication
of little pieces of code
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in another place.
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And that is typical of,
say, you might have people born
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with an extra finger,
or something like that.
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And so, you can get
different combinations
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of pre-existing
code being duplicated.
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And that can have, you know,
sometimes a beneficial effect
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within the organism, but
still the same type of organism.
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Or you can have
transfer of genes
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from one organism to another.
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So you can have
genetic transfers.
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So, for example, it's
widely believed that the top ten
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food poisoning
bacteria that the food industry
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has to worry about
these days evolved since 1970.
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And they have evolved
where genes to produce a toxin
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that was present in a
bacteria that would not survive
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in us because it didn't
have acid resistant genes,
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it didn't have adherence genes,
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and so it couldn't survive
in us, so it wasn't a problem,
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was transferred to some
organism, some particular
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bacteria, for example,
that did survive in us,
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but it didn't have any
toxins, so it wasn't a problem.
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And so, you can have a
little prior, a little piece of
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genetic material
that can transfer
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across under conditions.
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So that's
pre-existing code for a toxin.
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Then we need to...
00:10:09.57\00:10:11.04
A harmless bacteria now becomes
toxic and it can survive in us.
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And so, that's gene transfer.
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But in all those
cases, it's pre-existing code.
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The big issue is, how
does a new body part form?
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That requires totally new code.
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Just like the word, "arm,"
a- r-m, is totally different
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code to f-i-n.
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And it's very complex,
the codes that are required.
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Yeah, I just wanted to ask
a question that immediately
00:10:40.77\00:10:43.20
pops up when you say that.
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What does the theory
then say, where does this
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new information come from?
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What is their reasoning
of, this is where it came from?
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Right. That's one of the
major research questions.
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That's what the
government is funding.
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Lots of research in this
area to try and understand
00:11:01.02\00:11:04.39
how mutations
can produce new code.
00:11:04.59\00:11:08.10
No one knows. There's
no mechanism for that.
00:11:08.13\00:11:10.60
And this is a very, very
important point to understand:
00:11:10.80\00:11:13.97
that people claim
that evolution is a fact,
00:11:14.17\00:11:16.84
but there's actually no
known scientific mechanism
00:11:16.87\00:11:20.68
to explain how the
complex codes required to form a
00:11:20.71\00:11:25.35
new viable body
part can form by chance.
00:11:25.38\00:11:28.78
No known mechanism.
00:11:29.22\00:11:30.89
And you can go on, for
example, top websites like
00:11:30.92\00:11:33.39
the University of
California, Berkeley,
00:11:33.66\00:11:35.72
go onto their evolution
website and just google,
00:11:35.76\00:11:38.69
"big issues in evolution."
00:11:38.73\00:11:40.16
That will come
up as one of them.
00:11:40.20\00:11:42.03
Scientists are trying
to work out how the code
00:11:42.06\00:11:44.93
for new body parts can form.
00:11:44.97\00:11:46.80
And when we look at our
biochemistry that we know today,
00:11:46.84\00:11:49.94
it's absolutely impossible,
statistically, for that to form.
00:11:50.04\00:11:54.81
So this is a
major stumbling block,
00:11:54.84\00:11:57.01
actually, for accepting
the theory of evolution.
00:11:57.05\00:12:00.38
And they've done
experiments, of course,
00:12:00.48\00:12:02.02
to try and elucidate this.
00:12:02.05\00:12:04.15
And Tim, what about yourself?
00:12:04.62\00:12:05.95
Do you have any
questions for the doctor?
00:12:05.99\00:12:07.32
I was looking at Lenski's
experiment with E. coli.
00:12:07.36\00:12:11.36
And you mentioned in your book
that for E. coli to become a
00:12:12.33\00:12:15.40
different organism,
so for example, yeast,
00:12:15.43\00:12:17.77
it's going to have to multiply a
whole bunch of different genes.
00:12:17.80\00:12:20.44
And so I was wondering,
well, how complex are the genes?
00:12:20.64\00:12:23.00
But also, if those
genes weren't to be expressed,
00:12:23.04\00:12:26.94
could an E. coli just
copy and copy genes until it
00:12:26.98\00:12:30.55
had about 6000 genes, until
something got switched on and
00:12:30.58\00:12:33.98
sort of changed it?
00:12:34.02\00:12:35.35
Or is that impossible?
00:12:35.38\00:12:36.79
Yes, the issue is that they
are totally different genes.
00:12:37.29\00:12:40.42
So just duplicating
genes isn't going to do it.
00:12:40.66\00:12:42.72
Just duplicating
genetic material.
00:12:42.76\00:12:44.39
So if we go from a
bacterium to a yeast,
00:12:44.43\00:12:48.16
for example, we've
got a huge amount of,
00:12:48.20\00:12:51.07
you know,
increased genetic code.
00:12:51.47\00:12:53.30
Say, E. coli
about 4.5 million bases
00:12:53.34\00:12:59.07
to about 7.5 million bases,
no, about 12 million bases
00:12:59.31\00:13:04.31
in a yeast.
00:13:04.35\00:13:05.68
So we've got another 7.5 million
bases that have got to form.
00:13:05.71\00:13:09.92
So it's 7.5
million letters of code.
00:13:09.95\00:13:12.19
That's an
enormous amount of code.
00:13:12.22\00:13:14.42
And what we've got in
yeast, we've got organisms that
00:13:14.46\00:13:17.06
can have, you know,
sexual reproduction.
00:13:17.09\00:13:19.76
They've got a nucleus, where
bacteria doesn't have a nucleus.
00:13:20.46\00:13:23.10
There's a whole lot of
different biochemistry,
00:13:23.40\00:13:26.40
biochemical machines involved.
00:13:26.43\00:13:28.57
And that requires totally
new code to make those machines.
00:13:28.67\00:13:31.97
You just can't
duplicate existing code.
00:13:32.01\00:13:34.14
Or the probability of
existing code being duplicated
00:13:34.18\00:13:37.38
in such a way that it can
produce that meaningful code
00:13:37.41\00:13:40.58
is statistically impossible.
00:13:40.78\00:13:43.89
Absolutely impossible.
00:13:44.09\00:13:45.55
And I'll use that
word, "absolutely,"
00:13:45.59\00:13:46.92
in its absolute sense.
00:13:46.96\00:13:48.29
It's absolutely impossible.
00:13:48.32\00:13:49.66
So in your book, you
talk about three different
00:13:49.69\00:13:51.86
types of evolution;
00:13:51.89\00:13:53.23
type one, type two, type three,
00:13:53.50\00:13:55.63
and how it relates to mutation.
00:13:55.73\00:13:58.47
So maybe if you could
just walk through that with us
00:13:58.50\00:14:01.37
just so we get a
clear picture of what those
00:14:01.40\00:14:03.07
different types are.
00:14:03.10\00:14:04.44
Yes, so type one evolution
mentioned is the common
00:14:04.47\00:14:08.11
evolution referred to
in the book where you have
00:14:08.14\00:14:10.65
deletion of information.
00:14:10.68\00:14:12.75
And that's very common.
00:14:12.88\00:14:14.22
~ That's the first type, yes?
- Yes, that's the first type.
00:14:14.25\00:14:15.68
So the second type is
where you have, for example,
00:14:15.72\00:14:19.05
transfer of existing
code to a new organism
00:14:19.09\00:14:23.59
or duplication of existing code.
00:14:23.63\00:14:25.99
That type is...
00:14:26.03\00:14:27.36
But type three evolution
is where you have a completely
00:14:27.40\00:14:30.97
new type of code form
that produces a new body part.
00:14:31.00\00:14:35.00
And that's never been observed.
00:14:35.04\00:14:36.94
No one has
observed the evolution of a
00:14:37.04\00:14:40.31
new type of animal.
00:14:40.34\00:14:41.68
Now people argue, okay,
you can have a definition
00:14:41.71\00:14:44.01
of a new type of species,
but then we get into, you know,
00:14:44.05\00:14:46.25
what is a new type of species?
00:14:46.28\00:14:48.18
So I prefer to say, a
new type of body part.
00:14:48.22\00:14:50.79
And it's fascinating that
in some of the recent research
00:14:51.15\00:14:54.46
papers that are coming out now
there in reading publications,
00:14:54.49\00:14:58.56
we find them talking
about, nature somehow learned
00:14:58.59\00:15:03.30
how to make this
new type of organism
00:15:03.33\00:15:06.23
or make this new
type of connection.
00:15:06.27\00:15:08.74
So it's a real personification
of nature in many ways.
00:15:08.77\00:15:11.81
Yes, yes, yes.
00:15:11.84\00:15:13.17
And I think the reason is
that they recognize that these
00:15:13.21\00:15:16.78
codes, well they're huge codes.
00:15:16.81\00:15:20.18
And as I've said, they look
nothing like the structures.
00:15:20.22\00:15:22.65
But what we're
observing in nature is these,
00:15:22.75\00:15:26.39
like you saw in your
hummingbird, you've got this
00:15:26.42\00:15:28.69
creature that can perform
all these amazing feats that
00:15:28.72\00:15:31.89
has so many different body
parts in it to achieve that.
00:15:32.19\00:15:35.56
And human biochemistry,
when we look at, you know,
00:15:35.60\00:15:38.50
biochemistry textbooks
are typically this think.
00:15:38.80\00:15:42.04
You know, explaining all
the biochemical reactions
00:15:42.24\00:15:44.94
for the amazing
biochemistry taking on in us.
00:15:44.97\00:15:48.08
But when we look at just little
simple, like cells in plants and
00:15:48.11\00:15:51.75
this sort of thing, they have
amazing biochemistry as well.
00:15:51.78\00:15:54.28
We've got molecular
machines like photosystem two
00:15:54.32\00:15:57.72
that actually is a
system that takes light photons
00:15:57.99\00:16:03.46
and concentrates it and
splits water into hydrogen,
00:16:03.66\00:16:09.56
active hydrogen, and oxygen.
00:16:09.60\00:16:11.47
The oxygen is released
and that active hydrogen
00:16:11.50\00:16:14.70
is combined with carbon dioxide
that the plant has absorbed
00:16:14.74\00:16:17.71
to produce sugars and starches
and cellulose; the food.
00:16:17.74\00:16:21.74
So we have...
00:16:21.78\00:16:23.11
And really, this structure
of photosystem two that uses
00:16:23.14\00:16:26.21
unique elements like manganese,
and so forth, has only
00:16:26.25\00:16:30.45
recently been structures,
a little molecular machine,
00:16:30.49\00:16:33.72
and we still don't know how the
water molecules are combined.
00:16:34.06\00:16:37.36
Because what happens is
the machine holds two water
00:16:37.39\00:16:40.60
molecules and then zaps it with
the energy from four photons
00:16:40.63\00:16:44.73
that it collected
through the green chlorophyll.
00:16:44.77\00:16:50.24
~ No, five, not
three, but four. - Yeah.
00:16:50.27\00:16:52.54
And again, it has just the
right energy to split the water
00:16:52.57\00:16:57.11
into hydrogen and oxygen,
and the oxygen comes out.
00:16:57.21\00:17:00.78
And when we think about it,
we think of a plant or leaf,
00:17:00.88\00:17:03.52
we just pick it and
mow it with our lawn mower,
00:17:03.55\00:17:06.55
and this sort of thing,
all this amazing biochemistry
00:17:06.59\00:17:09.09
is going on in
there at that time.
00:17:09.12\00:17:11.09
And those machines are
just a powerful evidence
00:17:11.66\00:17:16.56
of a unique designer.
00:17:16.60\00:17:17.93
We've got top electrical
engineers in the world,
00:17:17.97\00:17:19.87
you're an electrical engineer,
and we haven't designed
00:17:19.90\00:17:24.44
anything that cool.
00:17:24.47\00:17:25.81
And what's more is that it
is self-reproducing as well.
00:17:25.84\00:17:29.38
We don't have self-reproducing
solar panels on our roof,
00:17:29.41\00:17:33.15
you know, that we can
harness the electricity from.
00:17:33.35\00:17:35.22
You know, we've got to have them
made in factories and so forth.
00:17:35.25\00:17:38.05
And that's the
result of lots of engineers.
00:17:38.09\00:17:40.32
And yet, we are
expecting that random mutations
00:17:40.42\00:17:43.46
produced a code
written using the letters,
00:17:43.66\00:17:47.16
well, the chemicals represented
by the letters A, C, T, and G,
00:17:47.20\00:17:50.83
that can produce
a machine like that.
00:17:50.87\00:17:52.70
Or the bacterial flagellum,
you know, this little mini
00:17:52.97\00:17:56.97
projector sort of thing.
00:17:57.01\00:17:58.34
~ You're making me feel
very humble here as an engineer.
00:17:58.37\00:18:00.24
It's an amazing gene.
00:18:01.41\00:18:02.74
But you know,
the question is this:
00:18:02.78\00:18:04.85
We have observed living
organisms undergo mutations.
00:18:04.88\00:18:11.12
So the bacteria, E.
coli, we have observed it.
00:18:11.65\00:18:18.13
So my question is, as
we've seen them mutating,
00:18:18.16\00:18:21.76
what has happened?
00:18:21.86\00:18:23.20
I mean, how many
mutations have we gone through?
00:18:23.23\00:18:25.53
What has happened
to those bacteria?
00:18:25.57\00:18:28.04
Right, yes, well earlier on
you mentioned the Richard Lenski
00:18:28.80\00:18:32.17
experiment, and Dr. Richard
Lenski is a researcher at
00:18:32.21\00:18:35.98
I think it's at Michigan
State University, from memory.
00:18:37.05\00:18:40.22
And essentially, his
experiment involved taking
00:18:40.25\00:18:43.35
twelve groups of E. coli
bacteria, twelve populations
00:18:43.55\00:18:47.96
of E. coli bacteria,
and breeding them through
00:18:47.99\00:18:50.46
lots and lots of cycles.
00:18:50.49\00:18:52.49
And the idea was
to attempt to observe
00:18:53.06\00:18:56.46
what types of
evolution took place.
00:18:56.97\00:18:59.37
And nothing much happened
for a while, but I think
00:18:59.93\00:19:01.90
up around about 30,000
generations a couple of
00:19:01.94\00:19:06.14
the groups began to flourish
00:19:06.17\00:19:08.68
and reproduce more
quickly than the other groups.
00:19:09.64\00:19:11.78
And they found that those groups
could use the chemical citrate,
00:19:11.81\00:19:16.45
which was being used as
a buffer in the selection.
00:19:16.65\00:19:19.59
Now what happened was, in the
wild E. coli can use citrate,
00:19:19.62\00:19:23.56
but they had selected
four E. coli that could not use
00:19:23.59\00:19:27.13
citrate so they could
use the citrate buffer system
00:19:27.16\00:19:29.40
in their experiment.
00:19:29.43\00:19:30.77
And so, Richard Dawkins, I
think in his book, Evolution;
00:19:31.47\00:19:35.14
The Greatest Show On
Earth, uses this example of,
00:19:35.17\00:19:37.67
"Ah, the example
of new code forming."
00:19:37.71\00:19:40.14
Matter of fact, I think as
I read the book, that was the
00:19:40.41\00:19:42.58
only example that he could
give of new code being observed.
00:19:42.61\00:19:47.15
But when they researched this
down, what had simply happened
00:19:47.38\00:19:51.02
was that a promoter gene
had been duplicated to be
00:19:51.05\00:19:56.76
next to a dormant
citrate transfer gene.
00:19:56.79\00:20:00.73
And this was a gene that
produced the right proteins
00:20:01.20\00:20:03.83
that allowed citrate to
be transferred through the
00:20:03.87\00:20:07.87
cell wall, and therefore
the bacterium to use citrate
00:20:07.90\00:20:11.21
as a food.
00:20:11.24\00:20:12.57
And so, that code was already
there, but it was dormant.
00:20:12.71\00:20:16.24
And there was a mutation
that allowed the promoter gene
00:20:16.98\00:20:21.05
that was a switch on
gene, so it now switched it on,
00:20:21.08\00:20:24.05
so they can now use the code.
00:20:24.09\00:20:25.52
Now they've bred those through
to 60,000 generations now,
00:20:25.55\00:20:30.13
and the rate of
mutation is that essentially
00:20:30.26\00:20:33.23
the probability of a mutation
in every part of the code
00:20:33.33\00:20:36.63
was possible during that time.
00:20:36.67\00:20:38.37
~ And of course, Darwin...
- But no new species occurred.
00:20:38.47\00:20:41.10
So Darwin was thinking
after 1000 generations,
00:20:41.14\00:20:43.87
or maybe 10,000, we'd
start to branch and we'd get new
00:20:43.91\00:20:47.18
species, new living organisms.
00:20:47.38\00:20:48.71
- We've had 60,000.
- 60,000 with E. coli.
00:20:48.74\00:20:51.45
And in the lab they
reproduce about every
00:20:51.48\00:20:54.28
30 minutes, from memory.
00:20:54.48\00:20:55.95
And so, we've had
this massive opportunity.
00:20:56.22\00:20:59.42
And at the end of that
time, they were still E. coli.
00:20:59.45\00:21:01.52
They hadn't even evolved into
a different type of bacteria.
00:21:01.56\00:21:04.86
~ Incredible.
00:21:04.89\00:21:06.23
And of course, one
of the questions is,
00:21:06.26\00:21:07.63
does nature, does our
genetic system actually,
00:21:07.66\00:21:10.73
are they prepared
for these mutations?
00:21:10.93\00:21:12.53
Is there any anti-evolutionist
kind of mechanisms?
00:21:12.57\00:21:15.87
And Blair, did you
have any comments or
00:21:15.90\00:21:18.57
thoughts on that topic?
00:21:18.61\00:21:19.94
Yeah, I was reading in
your book in chapter 4,
00:21:19.97\00:21:22.61
you talk about, I guess,
anti-evolution mechanisms
00:21:22.64\00:21:26.65
that are built into
or observable in nature.
00:21:26.68\00:21:29.65
And you gave some examples
of these sorts of things
00:21:29.68\00:21:31.72
that are kind of there to
preserve the integrity of the
00:21:31.75\00:21:34.16
species and to minimize
the possibility of mutations.
00:21:34.19\00:21:37.83
I guess my question is,
how do proponents of evolution
00:21:38.19\00:21:44.00
explain these
sorts of mechanisms?
00:21:44.03\00:21:46.40
Well, there are
the methods of repair
00:21:46.43\00:21:48.90
mechanisms that are there.
00:21:48.94\00:21:50.31
And often in some
reproduction systems
00:21:50.51\00:21:53.98
if the mutation goes through
and is a really bad mutation,
00:21:54.01\00:21:59.61
then the creature
doesn't reproduce; it dies.
00:21:59.65\00:22:01.88
But what they're counting on is
that some mutations do survive,
00:22:02.42\00:22:05.62
some mutations do
get through the system.
00:22:05.65\00:22:07.96
But what we've observed
in all experiments is that
00:22:08.36\00:22:11.29
these mutations
generally result in disease.
00:22:11.33\00:22:14.86
Or they may offer a
protection in some areas.
00:22:14.90\00:22:20.44
For example, they may
give us a protection against
00:22:20.47\00:22:23.27
a certain disease.
00:22:23.30\00:22:24.67
But the down side is,
we become more vulnerable
00:22:24.71\00:22:27.21
to something else in
just about every case.
00:22:27.24\00:22:29.78
And most
mutations end up in disease.
00:22:29.81\00:22:31.85
In case of human diseases,
for example, I think the
00:22:31.88\00:22:34.08
John Hopkins library there
of possible human mutations
00:22:34.12\00:22:40.42
caused by genetic
mutations is over 10,000
00:22:40.46\00:22:43.73
different types of diseases
caused by genetic mutations.
00:22:43.83\00:22:47.63
So we don't have improved
humans being produced by
00:22:47.66\00:22:51.27
genetic mutations.
00:22:51.30\00:22:53.34
Sorry, go ahead.
00:22:53.44\00:22:55.14
So does that mean
that we're coming to some
00:22:55.17\00:22:57.14
sort of extinction, genetically;
like us human beings?
00:22:57.17\00:22:59.77
And what would the
mutation rate be for people?
00:22:59.81\00:23:02.08
~ Well, that's right.
00:23:02.48\00:23:03.81
Mitochondrial DNA is
accumulating mutations.
00:23:03.85\00:23:06.48
And that is, of
course, responsible
00:23:06.51\00:23:07.92
for our energy systems.
00:23:07.95\00:23:09.28
So once that gets really bad,
we're going to be closed down.
00:23:09.32\00:23:11.65
But every living
organism on this planet,
00:23:11.69\00:23:14.76
mitochondrial DNA is
part of the energy system,
00:23:16.02\00:23:18.89
and it's slowly
accumulating mutations.
00:23:19.19\00:23:23.93
And when we look at this,
this is one of the reasons why
00:23:24.13\00:23:26.67
we know that life on earth can
not be millions of years old.
00:23:26.70\00:23:29.50
Because we've measured the
rate in which we're accumulating
00:23:29.54\00:23:32.27
mutations, and if we extrapolate
backwards, then life on earth
00:23:32.31\00:23:37.11
cannot be more than about
10,000 years, or 100,000 years
00:23:37.15\00:23:40.25
absolute max, mostly likely can
not be more than 10,000 years
00:23:40.28\00:23:44.35
because of the rate at which
we're accumulating mutations.
00:23:44.39\00:23:47.92
And if it was any older,
there would be so many mutations
00:23:47.96\00:23:51.43
that life wouldn't be working.
00:23:51.46\00:23:52.79
Mitochondrial DNA wouldn't
be functioning any more.
00:23:52.83\00:23:55.70
So this is
powerful absolute evidence
00:23:55.73\00:23:58.53
for the biblical
position for a young earth.
00:23:58.83\00:24:01.50
Powerful evidence.
00:24:01.54\00:24:02.87
And that's called,
genetic entropy, is that right?
00:24:02.90\00:24:04.57
Yes, a book has been
written by John Sanford
00:24:04.61\00:24:06.84
on genetic entropy.
00:24:06.88\00:24:08.48
And so, he's a geneticist that
worked at Stanford University
00:24:08.51\00:24:12.75
and did a lot of
work in this area.
00:24:12.78\00:24:14.68
But the research in this area is
published in the major journals,
00:24:14.72\00:24:17.69
like, Nature, and so forth.
00:24:17.72\00:24:19.15
Yeah, this is not...
00:24:19.19\00:24:20.86
But again, people
aren't really being told that.
00:24:20.89\00:24:22.82
So we overall have
more mutations in us
00:24:22.86\00:24:26.39
than our parents, and
our children will have more
00:24:26.43\00:24:29.03
mutations than we have.
00:24:29.06\00:24:30.77
- So everything is running down.
~ Melvin, you have a question?
00:24:30.80\00:24:32.67
I'm just trying to
wrap my head around this,
00:24:32.70\00:24:35.17
what we've been talking about.
00:24:35.20\00:24:36.60
What I get so far is
that the theory of evolution
00:24:36.71\00:24:39.67
does not give any
explanation for where new
00:24:39.71\00:24:42.71
information would come from.
00:24:42.74\00:24:44.48
Is has never been observed.
00:24:44.85\00:24:46.65
What we do observe is
what Blair referenced to,
00:24:46.75\00:24:50.15
like anti-evolution
mechanisms that prevent
00:24:50.19\00:24:53.66
or that keep the
integrity, as you said it good,
00:24:53.76\00:24:56.26
integrity of the species.
00:24:56.29\00:24:57.96
That has been observed.
00:24:58.19\00:24:59.63
How does that not defy,
you know, just science itself?
00:25:00.43\00:25:04.63
Like, the whole theory.
00:25:04.67\00:25:06.37
Why is it still...
It's so upside down.
00:25:06.40\00:25:09.30
For my
understanding it's upside down.
00:25:09.34\00:25:11.04
I think that's why at last,
as I said, a thousand scientists
00:25:11.07\00:25:15.64
have come out and signed
this, DissentFromDarwin.org
00:25:15.68\00:25:22.58
website and put their names up.
00:25:23.28\00:25:25.59
The evidence is
overwhelming, it's impossible.
00:25:26.86\00:25:28.99
But one of the things is,
a number of scientists that
00:25:29.22\00:25:31.09
think, "Well, we
do see evolution,"
00:25:31.13\00:25:32.86
what they're not recognizing
is that it's evolution
00:25:32.89\00:25:35.40
that involves pre-existing
genetic code, or the deletion
00:25:35.43\00:25:39.43
of pre-existing genetic code.
00:25:39.47\00:25:41.24
What they're not getting
across to the students is,
00:25:41.60\00:25:44.31
hang on, we're not actually
seeing the type of evolution
00:25:44.34\00:25:47.54
that produces new code.
00:25:47.58\00:25:49.31
And that's the evolution,
type of evolution that
00:25:49.34\00:25:51.98
Darwin was talking about.
00:25:52.01\00:25:53.48
So Darwinian
evolution hasn't been observed.
00:25:53.78\00:25:56.58
But it's this
confusion, it's this semantics
00:25:56.69\00:25:58.89
that's used to confuse students.
00:25:58.92\00:26:01.02
And they just keep on pushing
it and making these assertions.
00:26:01.06\00:26:04.36
But no, we have no
scientific evidence
00:26:04.66\00:26:08.13
for Darwinian
evolution occurring.
00:26:08.40\00:26:11.67
It hasn't been observed.
00:26:11.70\00:26:13.30
There's no know
molecular mechanism
00:26:13.34\00:26:15.40
for it to have occurred
or produce the evolution
00:26:15.44\00:26:17.47
for a new body part.
00:26:17.51\00:26:18.84
I think what you say
is what I notice too.
00:26:18.87\00:26:20.64
And when people ask me
if I believe in evolution,
00:26:20.68\00:26:23.38
as a Christian, and I
say, "Well, that depends on
00:26:23.58\00:26:27.05
how you define evolution."
00:26:27.08\00:26:28.42
I agree, and as we can observe
it, that within a species
00:26:28.55\00:26:31.92
we see things happening, like
you describe in the book with...
00:26:31.95\00:26:35.16
What animal was it you referred
to with the fur, the black fur?
00:26:36.16\00:26:39.19
Ah yes, yes, it's the mice.
00:26:39.23\00:26:41.06
~ Yeah, the mice.
Yeah. So we see that.
00:26:41.10\00:26:43.20
It's hard to say
that that doesn't exist.
00:26:43.23\00:26:46.03
But when you go to something
that has never been observed,
00:26:46.07\00:26:48.87
we can't repeat it, all of
these things, and they're like,
00:26:48.90\00:26:52.07
"No, I don't believe that."
00:26:52.11\00:26:53.51
~ That's right.
00:26:53.58\00:26:54.91
And it's amazing too, to think
of all of these topics in terms
00:26:54.94\00:26:58.55
of evolution, and one of
the most fundamental pillars.
00:26:58.58\00:27:01.88
The fact is, you may be wanting
to dig deeper into this topic.
00:27:02.12\00:27:05.15
And if you are, I'd like to
invite you to go to one of the
00:27:05.42\00:27:07.96
many online
bookstores around the world
00:27:07.99\00:27:10.06
and you can actually order
and get Dr. John Ashton's book,
00:27:10.26\00:27:14.36
Evolution Impossible.
00:27:14.40\00:27:15.96
It's a great, great book.
00:27:16.00\00:27:17.60
And you can just dig
more into this topic.
00:27:17.63\00:27:20.14
It's quite sobering to
think that one of the main
00:27:20.50\00:27:22.84
components of
evolution: random mutations,
00:27:22.87\00:27:26.31
cannot generate
new types of organisms.
00:27:26.47\00:27:29.14
The question is, where
does that leave evolution?
00:27:29.28\00:27:32.41
Is evolution impossible?
00:27:32.45\00:27:33.78
That's the
question we're asking.
00:27:34.12\00:27:35.55
And we are looking forward
to having you join us again
00:27:35.58\00:27:38.65
on this journey
as we go underground
00:27:38.69\00:27:40.46
and start digging for fossils.
00:27:40.56\00:27:42.29
And of course, if you've
missed any of our past programs,
00:27:42.49\00:27:45.13
you can watch
them on our website...
00:27:45.16\00:27:46.73
Till next time, we
look forward to seeing you.
00:27:49.36\00:27:51.37