Hello everyone, and
welcome to Evolution Impossible.
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I'm Sven  string.
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If this is the first
time you've joined us,
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we're going on an exciting
journey of discovery to find out
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whether evolution, one
of the biggest explanations
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for the origin of
life, is really possible.
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I'm glad to be able to welcome
Dr. John Ashton with us today.
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Good to have you.
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We've got Melvin
Sandelin as well,
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That's for joining us this time.
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We've got Blair Lemke, a
great leader of young adults.
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We've got Tim Turner as well.
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Thanks for joining us.
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You know, when Isaac
Newton looked back over his
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amazing career as a scientist,
he said that he felt just like
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a boy playing on the seashore
finding pebbles and shells
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when a whole
ocean lay before him.
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Every scientist is very willing
to recognize there is still
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a lot to be
discovered in science.
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The same is true of Darwin.
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The big thing that he knew
very little about was actually
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very, very tiny.
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It's the living cell.
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And the big question we
are going to address is:
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How did life begin?
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And so, Blair, just
wanted to ask you, when you were
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back in your
science classes in school,
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what did you learn about
in terms of how life began?
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Yeah, this is taking me back.
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But yeah, look, cells,
there was the big bang theory.
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The idea that, you know,
life just spontaneously erupted
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or emerged from nothing.
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And then that kind of
formulated into order.
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- Quite a theory. -
What about you, Tim?
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What did you learn
about how life began
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when you did science?
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Well, my experience
was actually more of a,
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"Let's see how
much we can blow up."
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That was pre-September 11.
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So I wasn't really
paying much attention to
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how things came to be.
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So it was a bit
of big bang as well?
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~ I like bangs.
- Yeah, fantastic.
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Melvin, tell us, what did
you learn about in science?
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Yeah, same thing.
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I think it's something that
most students will recognize.
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That it's just
not even questioned.
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It's just everything
started with nothing.
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And big bang, give it billions
of years, and there's life.
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And that's where we are.
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But what did they say
how life itself began?
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That's the question.
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I think, I haven't paid too
much attention to it because
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they didn't really
narrow in on it much, because
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it was just something
that was understood that
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life can come from no life.
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So all of a sudden, there's
a cell, and it duplicates.
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And all of a sudden, that
duplicates, and duplicates.
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And yeah, more complex
organisms can take shape.
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Yeah, well thank you very much.
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I mean, this is the, I guess,
the general understanding,
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perhaps we can say.
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So John, in terms
of Darwin himself,
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how did he say life
began, life itself began?
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Well, he didn't
have an answer for that.
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And he said the first organism
was something into which
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life was initially
breathed, you know.
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So it came about.
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And it's very interesting the
comments that have been made,
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because that's exactly
what the textbooks say.
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That there was the big bang,
and the earth, you know, formed
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about 4.5 billion
years ago, and cooled down.
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And some books say
sometime thereafter life arose.
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There was some
research done where they dated
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some filament type fossils
at about 3.5 billion years.
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I think that
might have been fossils
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actually found in Australia.
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And they said, well
okay, so life must be
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a little bit older than that.
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So the put a figure
about 3,800 million years.
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But nobody knows how.
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They just say it
happened because we're here.
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Yeah, so it's one of the
challenging problems of science,
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because to date
there's no known mechanism
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of how non-living chemicals
could form a living organism.
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And the big issues is that
the living cell, that first
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supposedly living
cell, where did it come from?
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And that is
something that Darwin
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didn't really
understand himself.
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So back to you, Blair, just
in terms of your understanding,
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what do you understand
the living cell to be made of?
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What is it like on the inside?
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Yeah, look, I was taught
that the cells were the basic
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building blocks of
life, back in high school.
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And you know, made up
with the cell membrane,
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and then inside
you've got your nucleus,
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mitochondria, the cytoplasm;
all these kinds of little
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bits and pieces inside the cell
that kind of make it operate
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and work and be
able to function.
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Yeah, I remember seeing
these, you know, diagrams in the
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textbooks that had all
the information in there.
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It's pretty amazing.
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And the interesting
thing, Blair, is that you know,
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even though you've gone
onto other career pathways,
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you know more about the
living cell than Darwin did.
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So John, tell us,
describe for us what's inside
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this living cell, this
tiny building block of life.
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Yes, well, one of the
challenges that we have today
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is we're
continuing to understand the
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biochemistry in the cell.
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So when Darwin
proposed his theory,
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DNA hadn't been
discovered at that time.
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~ So when was DNA discovered?
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In the early 1950's
it was really elucidated.
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It's structure was
understood in the early 1950's.
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So about 100 years after Darwin.
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So yes, nearly 100
years after Darwin.
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And then, of course, we
now know that DNA encodes
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all the information required
to build that functioning cell.
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So if we go back to, if
life has to form in the plant,
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so we have, you know, the plant
forms, and it's supposed to be
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water and minerals,
and these sort of things,
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and maybe lightning strikes.
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Some of us have heard
about the Miller-Urey experiment
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where they put some
basic gases together
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and zotted them with
high electrical voltages,
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and they produced a few
nitrogen containing molecules.
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And this is very important
because nitrogen is an essential
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element in what
we call, amino acids,
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which are the building blocks
in the code, in the DNA code,
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the building blocks in proteins,
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and they're very
functional in the cell.
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And these are different
to the long carbon chain
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polymer type compounds as well
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that involve carbon,
hydrogen, and oxygen.
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So also in the
living cell, of course,
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we've got other minerals.
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So somehow in some
sort of environment
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all these chemicals
have to come together.
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And they have to
arrange themselves.
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Now scientists have been
doing experiments trying to
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form these long
chain polymer molecules.
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Because to make the
cell, to make the cell membrane
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and this sort of
thing, we can't just have
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little molecules that
are only made of, you know,
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a few hundred atoms.
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They've got to be
made of thousands of atoms.
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They've got to be, what we call,
these long chain biopolymers.
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No, they're really,
really long molecules.
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So science has been looking at,
you know, how can these form?
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How can we make
these in the laboratory?
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And the experiments
haven't been very successful.
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They've been able to make
relatively these short ones,
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but not the real long ones.
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But there's another problem.
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If we look at the
basic structure of the cell,
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we're not just making one
or two of these long molecules
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for it to exist.
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We've actually got to
make millions of identical
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long chain
molecules that have to form.
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And I think this is
something that people miss
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in this whole scenario of this
first living organism formed.
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It requires lots of molecules.
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Millions of molecules, of which
millions have to be identical,
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but to different patterns.
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So you've got to have
millions of this pattern,
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millions of that pattern,
millions of that pattern.
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And then these somehow have to
assemble into a viable structure
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all by themselves,
which is a massive problem.
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So all those molecules
that have to randomly form,
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millions of them have
to randomly form identical,
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they then have to somehow
associate and come together.
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And say that somehow did happen,
we then have another major
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problem in that, how
can the cell replicate?
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Somehow there's got to
be a plan or a blueprint,
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otherwise, it's not
going to replicate the same.
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And that, of
course, is the DNA code.
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So you've got this
amazing situation, that somehow
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this molecule has to form.
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And then another
amazing molecule has to form,
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writing a code just
based on four amino acids
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that we symbolize
with A, C, T, and G...
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Australian
Capitol Territory is Good.
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So you can remember them.
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...that
represents a code that makes
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that molecule that is formed.
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So how can it know that?
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And even if we had
that, even if we had that code
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miraculously formed, and
that code even for the simplest
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organism, I think they would
say, would require at least
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250 to 400 genes.
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And each of these
genes are going to have
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thousands of base pairs in
them, or code letters in them.
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So we've got quite a
massive amount of information
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when you multiply
that all together.
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You're looking at
over 400,000 pieces of code
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that would be required.
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And that's in this language.
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But that's useless
unless you have a code reader.
00:10:02.50\00:10:04.87
And the code reader is
what we call, the ribosome.
00:10:05.77\00:10:09.50
And the structure of the
ribosome is so complex that
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its structure was
only elucidated in 2009.
00:10:14.11\00:10:19.21
So that's not that long ago.
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The number of scientists working
on that got the Nobel Prize.
00:10:21.22\00:10:25.89
Now this structure is
composed of over 300,000
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atoms arranged
in a specific order.
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And it's a code reader that's
specific to read that DNA code
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using those
letters A, C, T, and G.
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And so, the whole thing wouldn't
work unless that code is read.
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So you've got this
amazing molecule that also
00:10:49.48\00:10:52.45
has to arise by
chance to read that code.
00:10:52.48\00:10:56.79
But there's more.
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For the molecule, for
the first cell to replicate,
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the code to make another
ribosome has to be there.
00:11:02.16\00:11:06.59
So the code to make
the code reading machine
00:11:06.70\00:11:10.87
it already in the code.
00:11:10.90\00:11:12.60
But it's useless
unless there is a code reading
00:11:12.73\00:11:15.37
machine already there.
00:11:15.40\00:11:16.77
So even from this point we can
see, for the first living cell
00:11:17.27\00:11:21.74
to form by itself under natural
processes, according to the
00:11:21.78\00:11:25.41
laws of physics and
chemistry that we know today,
00:11:25.45\00:11:28.08
it's absolutely impossible.
00:11:28.12\00:11:30.12
So it's really sort of a chicken
and egg kind of situation.
00:11:30.15\00:11:32.59
You know, which came first,
the code or the code reader?
00:11:32.62\00:11:35.46
And you know, you're
in a real kind of bind.
00:11:35.72\00:11:38.16
Would you say that's correct?
00:11:38.19\00:11:39.73
Ah, it's a massive problem.
00:11:39.76\00:11:41.26
It's even greater than that.
00:11:41.30\00:11:42.63
Because even if you
had all those together...
00:11:42.66\00:11:45.53
And I haven't even
mentioned all the specific
00:11:45.57\00:11:48.64
long large
enzyme type molecules.
00:11:48.84\00:11:51.34
So these are large
combinations of amino acids;
00:11:51.37\00:11:53.81
fats and sugars, and so forth,
00:11:53.84\00:11:55.28
that catalyze
specific chemical reactions.
00:11:55.64\00:11:58.85
They all have to be there.
00:11:58.88\00:12:00.22
And in the simplest cell,
there would be hundreds of those
00:12:00.25\00:12:02.62
required, often
using specialized minerals
00:12:02.65\00:12:06.15
to be part of their structure.
00:12:06.19\00:12:07.89
So they all have to
come together as well.
00:12:07.92\00:12:09.69
As well as all these
big structures to make
00:12:09.72\00:12:11.63
the membranes, and so forth.
00:12:11.66\00:12:13.16
But even if we had all
those, it would still be dead.
00:12:13.73\00:12:17.13
It wouldn't be alive.
00:12:17.17\00:12:18.50
So even if all these
things came together,
00:12:18.53\00:12:20.34
it wouldn't be alive,
they'd just be chemicals.
00:12:20.37\00:12:23.04
So how do you switch it on?
00:12:23.07\00:12:24.41
How do you turn
this living cell on?
00:12:24.44\00:12:25.94
Right, and this again
is the other more than
00:12:25.97\00:12:31.38
multi-million dollar question.
00:12:31.41\00:12:32.91
It's more than
multi-universe question, really.
00:12:32.95\00:12:35.75
Because what happens
is, to make that thing alive
00:12:36.55\00:12:41.16
you have to have a whole
lot of chemical reactions
00:12:41.19\00:12:44.59
in place just out of
balance by the right amount
00:12:45.09\00:12:48.63
so that the metabolism
or the end product of one
00:12:48.66\00:12:52.40
biochemical reaction is
produced at just the right level
00:12:52.43\00:12:56.71
to produce the next
biochemical reaction,
00:12:56.74\00:12:59.11
that produces the
next products to produce
00:12:59.14\00:13:01.54
just the right level for
the next reaction, and so forth,
00:13:01.58\00:13:04.15
through hundreds of reactions
producing just the right
00:13:04.25\00:13:07.78
amount of chemical for
the very first reaction.
00:13:07.82\00:13:10.09
And so you have this
cyclic complex of hundreds of
00:13:10.99\00:13:14.99
biochemical
reactions all interconnected
00:13:15.02\00:13:18.79
that all have to be
out of balance by just
00:13:18.83\00:13:21.23
the right amount simultaneously.
00:13:21.26\00:13:23.60
Which is absolutely impossible.
00:13:24.40\00:13:26.50
You know, and
scientists recognize that
00:13:26.53\00:13:28.90
it's impossible to do.
00:13:28.94\00:13:30.61
And yet, changing just
one little chemical reaction
00:13:30.64\00:13:34.18
will kill the cell.
00:13:34.51\00:13:36.11
So you're really starting
to blow us away with your
00:13:36.31\00:13:39.65
mind-boggling
description of the living cell.
00:13:39.68\00:13:42.25
Just wondering if you guys had
any questions for John today.
00:13:42.28\00:13:46.96
Blair, do you have
any thoughts or comments
00:13:47.26\00:13:49.62
on what John's been saying?
00:13:49.66\00:13:51.49
You kind of mentioned
there the impossibility of,
00:13:51.93\00:13:55.66
I guess, a living organism
coming out of non-living matter.
00:13:55.70\00:13:59.43
And yet, the scientific world,
even though there's no mechanism
00:13:59.93\00:14:04.27
to prove how this could happen
or show how it could work,
00:14:04.31\00:14:07.34
still assumes
that it does happen.
00:14:07.44\00:14:10.05
So I guess one
question that I have is,
00:14:10.45\00:14:12.85
this is a huge
assumption to make.
00:14:13.55\00:14:15.45
How are scientists comfortable
with making such a large
00:14:15.48\00:14:19.42
assumption, which if it's
not true, completely undermines
00:14:19.45\00:14:24.23
the theory of evolution?
00:14:24.26\00:14:25.69
Well, that's exactly right.
00:14:26.16\00:14:27.73
So there's a couple
of explanations for this.
00:14:27.76\00:14:29.86
And I noticed that
some of my detractors say,
00:14:29.90\00:14:33.30
"Well, hey John, your book
is on the theory of evolution.
00:14:33.34\00:14:37.81
Evolution doesn't attempt
to account for how live began."
00:14:37.84\00:14:41.51
So they totally say, "Well,
that's not a fair question
00:14:41.54\00:14:44.28
because that's
outside of evolution."
00:14:44.31\00:14:45.68
But really, it's
chemical evolution.
00:14:45.71\00:14:47.78
And it's interesting that
one of the first proponents,
00:14:48.25\00:14:50.89
well not so much
the first proponents
00:14:50.92\00:14:52.42
of chemical evolution,
but one of the first authors
00:14:52.45\00:14:54.52
of a textbook attempting
to explain chemical evolution
00:14:54.56\00:14:58.86
was Dean Kenyon, who
was a professor of biology
00:14:58.89\00:15:03.37
at San Francisco
State University, I think.
00:15:03.57\00:15:06.80
~ And he was focusing
on chemical evolution.
00:15:07.07\00:15:09.10
- This is the thing,
how... - How do you get life?
00:15:09.14\00:15:11.91
That's right. How do you get
life from non-living chemicals?
00:15:11.94\00:15:14.64
And how did it go?
00:15:14.68\00:15:16.01
Well, it's quite
fascinating that he became
00:15:16.04\00:15:18.01
a young earth creationist.
00:15:18.05\00:15:19.51
And he certainly
started as an evolutionist.
00:15:21.28\00:15:25.79
So this is, you know,
we have powerful evidence.
00:15:25.89\00:15:29.02
Now, why is it not accepted?
00:15:29.06\00:15:30.79
Now it's very interesting,
you've got scientists like, say,
00:15:30.83\00:15:33.76
Sir Fred Hoyle,
the famous astronomer
00:15:33.80\00:15:35.96
who was very good at math,
and he recognized that it was
00:15:36.06\00:15:38.67
absolutely impossible from
a statistical point of view.
00:15:38.70\00:15:41.27
And so he and, I think, a
mathematician friend of his
00:15:41.57\00:15:46.31
from the University
of Ceylon wrote a book,
00:15:46.34\00:15:48.78
Evolution From Space.
00:15:48.81\00:15:50.38
And so they said, "Well the
first life must have somehow
00:15:50.48\00:15:53.18
come here from outer space."
00:15:53.31\00:15:55.48
But it really doesn't change
anything, because we believe
00:15:55.98\00:15:58.92
and we understand that
the same laws of chemistry
00:15:58.95\00:16:01.09
and physics operate
throughout the universe.
00:16:01.12\00:16:03.63
So if it's impossible,
it's impossible anywhere
00:16:03.99\00:16:06.93
in the universe
for it to happen.
00:16:06.96\00:16:08.53
Well, it seems to me that's
just really kicking the can
00:16:08.56\00:16:10.40
further out into the universe.
00:16:10.60\00:16:12.03
And that's what
they're really doing.
00:16:12.23\00:16:14.00
That's a good
question, Dr. Ashton, because
00:16:14.20\00:16:16.07
I met someone, a neurosurgeon,
and I felt quite intimidated
00:16:16.10\00:16:20.24
talking to this person because
he was using all kinds of terms
00:16:20.28\00:16:23.14
that I didn't understand.
00:16:23.18\00:16:24.81
But I asked him the
basic question, because he's a
00:16:25.01\00:16:26.92
firm believer in
evolution, and I asked him,
00:16:26.95\00:16:29.58
that no one has ever observed
life coming from non-life.
00:16:29.98\00:16:34.92
And he brought out the
same reason that you said,
00:16:35.02\00:16:37.19
that it's actually not
part of the evolution model.
00:16:37.23\00:16:39.89
But he still wanted to
answer, and he said there's been
00:16:40.10\00:16:43.30
many calculations
done on this topic,
00:16:43.57\00:16:46.33
and actually this is the
most mathematical probable
00:16:46.53\00:16:50.54
solution that we have.
00:16:50.57\00:16:52.64
Now I read in your book in
the third chapter, you give
00:16:52.97\00:16:55.68
some of the
mathematics behind the theory,
00:16:55.71\00:16:58.85
and that they far
surpass the commonly accepted
00:16:58.95\00:17:03.49
view within science
of what is possible.
00:17:03.52\00:17:08.02
And they far exceed that number.
00:17:08.22\00:17:09.99
Why is it then that
there is still this consensus
00:17:10.36\00:17:13.96
among scientists that even
though it's far beyond what
00:17:14.00\00:17:18.20
they accept would be
possible, that still,
00:17:18.23\00:17:20.40
"No, it's possible enough."
00:17:20.60\00:17:22.40
How come that scientific
numbers are clashing, but
00:17:22.44\00:17:26.27
we don't hear about it?
00:17:26.94\00:17:28.28
Sure, well I mean, I
can't speak for how these guys
00:17:28.31\00:17:31.61
actually think on the basis
of that, but it's got to be
00:17:31.65\00:17:34.88
people that deny God.
00:17:34.92\00:17:36.62
So Francis Collins, for example,
chemist that headed up the
00:17:37.09\00:17:43.39
Human Genome Program,
in a debate that he had
00:17:43.43\00:17:46.29
with Richard Dawkins,
he said, "Well, you know,
00:17:46.33\00:17:50.40
God has to have started life.
00:17:50.50\00:17:52.57
You know, that's the only
possible explanation we have."
00:17:52.77\00:17:55.84
And it's quite clear that these
other scientists, they still
00:17:56.07\00:18:00.14
want to keep God out of it.
00:18:00.18\00:18:01.61
And their argument
probably goes along the lines,
00:18:01.64\00:18:03.75
"Well, we're here, so
life must have started."
00:18:03.78\00:18:06.48
Because they don't want to
accept the possibility that
00:18:06.68\00:18:10.92
there is a supernatural
Creator intelligence outside us.
00:18:10.95\00:18:16.59
And so they're clinging
to the hope that one day
00:18:16.69\00:18:21.33
we will somehow discover
some miraculous thing there.
00:18:21.36\00:18:25.50
Or, you know, again if you go
down the lines of Thomas Nagel,
00:18:25.70\00:18:31.07
Professor Thomas Nagel at
the University of New York,
00:18:31.11\00:18:33.34
atheist philosopher, he
essentially says, "Well, maybe
00:18:33.38\00:18:38.15
the cosmos itself has this
power to self-organize itself."
00:18:38.18\00:18:42.82
But really, what he's saying is,
he's not comfortable with God,
00:18:42.85\00:18:46.65
but really all the evidence is
pointing that there's something
00:18:46.69\00:18:49.49
identical to God
out there that he calls,
00:18:49.52\00:18:51.69
like some sort of
mind in the cosmos.
00:18:51.73\00:18:54.56
And so really, when we get
to these highly intelligent guys
00:18:54.83\00:18:58.00
that are really deep
thinkers, they recognize this.
00:18:58.03\00:19:00.84
That actually
there must be a God,
00:19:01.30\00:19:02.97
but they don't
want to call it God.
00:19:03.00\00:19:04.51
They want to sort
of bring it down to
00:19:05.41\00:19:06.81
some other physical entity.
00:19:06.84\00:19:08.91
Is that like the God particle
that they're trying to discover?
00:19:08.94\00:19:12.55
Or is that off topic?
00:19:12.58\00:19:14.22
Oh no, no, these are
all just sort of comments.
00:19:14.25\00:19:18.02
The God particle really
is nothing to do with God.
00:19:18.05\00:19:20.62
But this is the whole
idea that somehow we will
00:19:20.66\00:19:24.79
find some mathematical,
some quantum mechanical
00:19:24.83\00:19:28.76
explanation that
enabled these amazing codes
00:19:28.93\00:19:34.20
to somehow rise
in a meaningful way.
00:19:34.24\00:19:36.34
Because not only do we have
the code and the code reader,
00:19:36.37\00:19:39.81
but it's got to match.
00:19:39.84\00:19:41.18
You know, so if I speak to
you in Latvian, or something,
00:19:41.44\00:19:44.88
and I say the word,
"zivis," you know...
00:19:44.91\00:19:47.02
No, I don't even know
what you're talking about.
00:19:47.05\00:19:48.38
That's right.
00:19:48.42\00:19:49.75
But my best friend in
school would understand that,
00:19:49.78\00:19:51.12
that it meant, "fish," you know.
00:19:51.15\00:19:52.49
So unless you're programmed
with the code to understand
00:19:52.52\00:19:55.36
the code, it's
not going to work.
00:19:55.39\00:19:56.73
And so, the
evidence is overwhelming
00:19:56.99\00:20:00.66
that codes require
an intelligent design.
00:20:00.70\00:20:04.03
They can't arise by chance.
00:20:04.07\00:20:06.00
And to have a code reader
machine, it's just so complex
00:20:07.10\00:20:10.47
in terms of its
molecular structure alone.
00:20:10.51\00:20:13.38
And the other thing is too,
that these structures that are
00:20:13.58\00:20:17.65
formed require chemical
reactions that don't occur
00:20:17.68\00:20:21.58
in nature by themselves.
00:20:21.92\00:20:23.65
They only occur, many of them
like the synthesis of enzymes,
00:20:24.19\00:20:27.59
and this sort of
thing, they only occur
00:20:27.62\00:20:29.82
in the protected
structure of a living cell.
00:20:30.09\00:20:33.19
So they can't form in nature.
Nature will break them down.
00:20:33.70\00:20:37.60
We've got ultraviolet lights,
we've got, yes, we've got water
00:20:37.63\00:20:41.30
that will dissolve these longer
polymers and break them down.
00:20:41.34\00:20:45.01
All these sort of things.
00:20:45.04\00:20:46.37
So again, when we look at
the environmental scenario,
00:20:46.41\00:20:49.91
it's all against it.
00:20:49.94\00:20:51.45
You know, scientists
attempt to come up with
00:20:51.48\00:20:54.15
solutions like, well
maybe the molecules adsorbed
00:20:54.18\00:20:58.09
on the surface of a clay
particle and they were sort of
00:20:58.12\00:21:00.86
somehow enabled to move
around on the clay crystals
00:21:00.89\00:21:03.86
and order themselves.
00:21:03.89\00:21:05.23
But really,
they're clutching at straws
00:21:05.33\00:21:06.90
when they look at the
probability, and they forget
00:21:06.93\00:21:09.03
that, hang on, you
don't need just one or two
00:21:09.13\00:21:11.20
of these long molecules.
00:21:11.23\00:21:12.57
You need
millions to come together
00:21:12.60\00:21:14.97
and to form these structures.
00:21:15.00\00:21:16.34
So John, you mentioned
probability a few times.
00:21:16.37\00:21:19.31
So can you just run
through with us, how would you
00:21:19.34\00:21:23.14
calculate the probability
that, say, a protein molecule
00:21:23.18\00:21:28.05
or a DNA molecule, how do
you calculate the probability
00:21:28.08\00:21:31.02
that that could
have arisen by chance?
00:21:31.05\00:21:33.46
Which would kind
of give us a handle
00:21:33.49\00:21:35.69
on the probabilities
we're looking at here.
00:21:35.72\00:21:37.69
How would you go about
doing that calculation?
00:21:37.73\00:21:39.73
Okay, well it's
probably a bit hard for me to do
00:21:40.10\00:21:42.06
without having a whiteboard
or something to explain it.
00:21:42.10\00:21:44.27
But let's say that
we wanted to order, say,
00:21:44.30\00:21:47.40
a hundred amino acids in order.
00:21:47.50\00:21:49.54
And these, you know, a
simple gene generally is
00:21:49.57\00:21:51.81
about a thousand amino acids.
00:21:51.84\00:21:53.74
And so, when you look at
the probabilities of lining up
00:21:53.91\00:21:57.58
a hundred amino acids, and
there's about twenty types of
00:21:57.61\00:22:00.28
amino acids, and
you do the calculations,
00:22:00.32\00:22:02.05
you come with a power of
about 10 to the power of 30.
00:22:02.08\00:22:06.25
You know, which
is a massive number.
00:22:06.29\00:22:07.62
And then you've got to
order all the different numbers
00:22:07.79\00:22:12.33
of amino acids, the fact that
you can have twenty different
00:22:12.36\00:22:15.40
types of amino acids, they can
be all different combinations.
00:22:15.43\00:22:18.63
You know, imagine twenty
of these in the alphabet,
00:22:18.67\00:22:21.20
how many ways
you can arrange it.
00:22:21.30\00:22:22.70
It's a huge number, it's
about 10 to the power of 130.
00:22:22.74\00:22:25.47
So we're already up to
10 to the power of 160.
00:22:25.67\00:22:28.18
And then we've got to have the
fact that all those proteins,
00:22:28.34\00:22:31.18
and proteins can
be made in either
00:22:31.21\00:22:33.31
right or left handed
versions, they must all be
00:22:33.35\00:22:35.62
left handed versions.
00:22:35.65\00:22:36.99
The right handed
ones are poisonous.
00:22:37.02\00:22:38.62
And they're going to kill
the organism, for a start.
00:22:38.85\00:22:41.66
And the power of that,
when you do the calculations,
00:22:41.69\00:22:44.43
will come out about
10 to the power of 30.
00:22:44.46\00:22:48.63
And so, when you add those
up, you're already up to about
00:22:48.90\00:22:51.40
10 to the power
of 190, thereabouts.
00:22:51.43\00:22:55.17
And yet, impossibility
is something greater than
00:22:55.20\00:22:58.21
10 to the power of 150, from
the philosophical point of view
00:22:58.24\00:23:01.48
when we look at the
chances of something happening
00:23:01.51\00:23:04.11
in the universe.
00:23:04.15\00:23:06.18
We say that anything
with a chance less than
00:23:06.41\00:23:09.15
1 in 10 to the 150 is
defined as impossible,
00:23:09.18\00:23:12.49
generally
speaking by mathematicians.
00:23:12.59\00:23:14.32
So already, just
forming a gene that was only
00:23:14.36\00:23:17.86
a hundred amino acids lined
up is already in that area.
00:23:17.89\00:23:23.40
So when you have an
organism, the simplest organism
00:23:23.43\00:23:26.20
requiring hundreds of these
that are going to be longer,
00:23:26.23\00:23:29.14
it just blows it right out.
00:23:29.17\00:23:31.21
Never mind the probability
of forming something like a
00:23:31.24\00:23:33.48
ribosome, which is extremely
complex in its structure.
00:23:33.51\00:23:36.71
So when we look at the math,
and it's straight forward math,
00:23:37.08\00:23:41.18
so we know the probability
occurs because these reactions
00:23:41.22\00:23:44.59
are random chemical reactions.
00:23:44.62\00:23:46.29
So the laws of
probability apply very strongly.
00:23:46.32\00:23:49.56
Dr. Ashton, I was
wondering, with the mathematical
00:23:50.43\00:23:53.40
improbabilities
being about 10 to the 150,
00:23:53.43\00:23:55.70
and I'm not sure if it's correct
or not, but is the current
00:23:56.60\00:24:00.50
understanding of how many
particles there are in the
00:24:00.54\00:24:02.80
universe increasing?
00:24:02.84\00:24:04.17
And will that
increase to the point where the
00:24:04.21\00:24:05.94
probability will even out?
00:24:05.97\00:24:07.31
Okay, so this is a very
interesting theory, of course.
00:24:07.51\00:24:10.48
Is the universe
continuing to expand?
00:24:10.51\00:24:14.65
So is space and time
expanding, or space expanding?
00:24:14.98\00:24:18.92
So this theory is
based on assuming there is
00:24:18.95\00:24:20.79
a fourth dimension, which
again hasn't been ever measured.
00:24:20.82\00:24:23.73
But let's assume
that it is expanding
00:24:23.76\00:24:26.49
just in three dimensions.
00:24:26.53\00:24:28.13
Is new matter being added?
00:24:29.40\00:24:31.43
That's the thing.
00:24:31.47\00:24:32.80
If new matter isn't being
added, then there's no more
00:24:32.83\00:24:34.97
atoms being
added to the material.
00:24:35.00\00:24:37.51
So is new material actually
being synthesized by energy?
00:24:37.77\00:24:41.08
So energy and matter
must be conserved together.
00:24:41.11\00:24:46.01
So I suppose if you
have energy being converted
00:24:46.05\00:24:48.38
into more
matter, then you'd say,
00:24:48.42\00:24:49.75
"Yes, there are more particles
because we're converting
00:24:49.78\00:24:52.15
more energy into matter."
00:24:52.19\00:24:53.52
So there's an energy matter
balance that's maintained.
00:24:53.56\00:24:56.42
But it's pretty big.
The number is enormous.
00:24:56.46\00:24:58.59
So, you know. Mind
blowing enormous, really.
00:24:59.16\00:25:02.26
And you know, one of
the things you mentioned
00:25:02.30\00:25:04.27
in the book, John, is
that the things which are being
00:25:04.30\00:25:07.40
taught in the textbooks is
an 80 year old kind of model,
00:25:07.44\00:25:12.27
which seems, you know,
quite dated, if I might say so.
00:25:12.74\00:25:16.21
Blair, did you
have any other questions
00:25:16.24\00:25:18.05
on those kind of topics?
00:25:18.08\00:25:19.75
Yeah, I guess the fact that
these scientists are operating
00:25:19.78\00:25:24.15
off an 80 year old model, I
guess, why are they doing that?
00:25:24.19\00:25:29.62
Why aren't they open
to seeing some of the more
00:25:29.66\00:25:32.63
updated models and information
that you've been sharing today?
00:25:32.66\00:25:35.63
Well, I think there's a
growing number of scientists
00:25:36.53\00:25:39.37
now that are
recognizing this and that are
00:25:39.40\00:25:42.44
certainly coming
out and saying it.
00:25:42.54\00:25:43.94
And hence that website
that I mentioned earlier
00:25:43.97\00:25:47.58
where over a
thousand scientists now
00:25:47.61\00:25:49.81
with qualifications
in the biological fields,
00:25:50.01\00:25:52.95
doctorates in the
biological fields,
00:25:52.98\00:25:54.85
have put their name down
saying, "We're now skeptical."
00:25:55.18\00:25:58.05
Particularly that
Darwin's theory can explain
00:25:58.45\00:26:00.46
the origin of life.
00:26:00.49\00:26:02.29
You'd expect that
people would just, you know,
00:26:02.32\00:26:04.03
scientists would be eager to
discover this new information.
00:26:04.06\00:26:07.76
~ Oh well, definitely.
00:26:08.20\00:26:09.93
I mean, one
scientist, Dr. Eugene Koonin
00:26:09.96\00:26:12.33
who holds a
leading research position,
00:26:12.53\00:26:14.80
I think, with the National
Institute of Health in the U.S.,
00:26:14.84\00:26:17.97
he points out, you
know, we've got major problems
00:26:18.37\00:26:21.28
with the origin of life.
00:26:21.54\00:26:22.88
Like, he says
you've got a big problem
00:26:22.91\00:26:24.25
with the DNA code arising.
00:26:24.28\00:26:25.95
Then how do you
explain the ribosome?
00:26:26.88\00:26:28.78
And so, you know, he's
one of the top biologists
00:26:29.18\00:26:31.55
and geneticists in the world.
00:26:31.59\00:26:32.92
So these top
scientists are recognizing it,
00:26:32.95\00:26:35.96
but it's not
getting out to the students.
00:26:35.99\00:26:37.73
So I think I may
have read somewhere where
00:26:37.76\00:26:39.76
one of the other guys
in an editorial somewhere
00:26:39.96\00:26:43.13
on a blog commented, "Hey
Eugene, don't say these things.
00:26:43.16\00:26:46.84
You know, we don't
want our students to know."
00:26:46.87\00:26:48.77
And this is the thing
that really gets to me.
00:26:48.87\00:26:50.87
The students aren't being told.
00:26:50.97\00:26:52.81
We've got a
major, major problem.
00:26:52.84\00:26:55.21
That there's no
possible explanation for a
00:26:55.51\00:26:58.28
mechanical origin of life.
00:26:58.31\00:27:00.08
Life is supernatural.
00:27:00.32\00:27:01.75
We are evidence of the
existence of a supernatural God.
00:27:01.78\00:27:05.42
You know, you might have
been really wanting to join us
00:27:06.12\00:27:08.92
here as we've discussed
this fascinating topic.
00:27:08.96\00:27:12.09
Well the good news is, you can.
00:27:12.13\00:27:13.86
If you go to any online book
store right around the world,
00:27:13.90\00:27:16.93
you can order Dr. John Ashton's
book, Evolution Impossible.
00:27:17.07\00:27:20.50
You can read through
the chapters and you can be
00:27:20.54\00:27:22.30
one step ahead of us.
00:27:22.34\00:27:23.67
Isn't that amazing.
00:27:23.71\00:27:25.04
But what an exciting journey
to dive into the living cell.
00:27:25.07\00:27:27.88
And it is fascinating to
realize that the very thing that
00:27:28.14\00:27:30.85
Darwin did not
understand could not have arisen
00:27:30.88\00:27:33.88
by chance or evolution.
00:27:33.92\00:27:35.25
It makes you stop and wonder,
is evolution really possible?
00:27:35.28\00:27:38.42
That's the question that
we're looking at in this series,
00:27:38.45\00:27:41.22
Evolution Impossible.
00:27:41.26\00:27:42.59
Join us next time as we
explore an essential part
00:27:42.62\00:27:45.83
of Darwin's theory: mutations.
00:27:45.86\00:27:47.96
We look forward
to seeing you then.
00:27:48.00\00:27:49.50