Hello again, My
name is Jay Rosario,
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your host for
the Engage Program,
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which is the series dedicated
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to address some of the
most relevant challenging issues
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facing young
adults all over the world.
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Joining us is my
good friend, Dan McGrath.
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Dan, how is it going?
Good, Jay, how are you going?
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Doing all right.
Dan, what exactly
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are we gonna be talking about?
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Well, today we're gonna
look at the issue of music.
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It's something that's caused
a few ripples in the church.
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People have, you know,
enjoyed music for centuries.
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Other people have
thought to ban their existence.
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We're gonna try to
tackle all of this today.
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And to do that we
have my good friend
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Nestor Soriano coming
to join us on the set.
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Nestor, welcome.
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Good to see you,
Dan. Good to see you too.
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Nestor, for those
who-- who don't know you,
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I know you, Dan knows
you, and many know you,
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but for those that
may not know you...
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who are you,
where do you come from?
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And since we're talking
about music tell us a little bit
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about your early experience with
music as a child growing up.
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It's a good question, Jay.
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You know, I grew up
in the city of Chicago
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and I also grew up
in the church as well.
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Currently, I'm in
Berrien Springs, Michigan,
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working on my
Masters of Divinity. Nice.
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Now to where God has
brought me to that point
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that's another story, but
specifically where I grew up.
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I grew up as a teenager.
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I loved music. It
was always in my heart.
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Now I know in your
culture, you love music.
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It's inside your
very own culture.
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Yes. Got the rhythm.
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Yes. Now you are of a
Filipino background right?
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Filipino
background, that's correct.
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Is it Kumusta ka? Yes.
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Did I get it right? That's
correct, you got it right.
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And of course
Filipino is very musical,
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it has a really
much into singing.
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I think every
Filipino that I met sings.
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Yeah, a lot of,
a lot of Filipino's
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that I do know enjoy music.
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They sing they
play an instrument.
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Well, that was kind of
the story of my life as well.
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I grew up singing.
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I can remember
when I was a little boy
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four or five years old.
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My dad would have me
sing in front of my family.
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I was very embarrassed but still
they would force me to do that.
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And it gave me a
confidence and love for music.
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I played piano.
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I learned recorder and
saxophone at a young age.
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I use to learn
cello in high school
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then I learnt guitar in
around early 2000, 2001.
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Very versatile.
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So as a young person--
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who were the
main influences that--
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I mean who would you listen to?
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What type of genre maybe--
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You know, you
write your own music,
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so, you know, what
were you into back then?
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Sure, I would say
probably in the 1990's
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I can remember listening
to tapes that my friends had.
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Cassette tapes,
remember those days?
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Those were the golden days.
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Before CD's. Exactly.
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I can remember
tapes of popular pop music
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whether it's Michael Jackson,
Mariah Carey, music like that.
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And then A cappella groups,
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Boyz II Men and
lot of R&B songs,
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you know, some of
these just secular artist.
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I can remember that--
having a strong influence
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in my-- in my life.
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So as growing up as a child
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it was--seems
like you were musical
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from the-- from the get go.
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Was it always--when was
it always a struggle between
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because it sounds like
did you grow up in the church
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in a Christian
environment is that?
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Yes, I did. I grew up
in a Christian environment.
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So then you kind of
grew up with the hymns,
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you grew up with some
of the Christian songs,
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and then you
also maybe were aware
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and also listen to some
of the other types of music.
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Did you ever find
a conflict with that
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as growing up in
your teenage years?
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Tell us a little bit about that.
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Sure, I think because I was so--
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I guess you could say
engrossed in popular music
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it did give me lack of a
desire for--for the Bible
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and for spiritual things.
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Although I did grew
up in a Christian home
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my great
grandmother played a large role
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in my spiritual development.
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She would sing those
hymns, worship on Friday nights.
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I can remember times
when she would sing her--
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her favorite songs.
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Some of the classic hymns
like the Old Rugged Cross.
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I can remember
singing those songs.
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But to answer
your question because--
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because of my then
influences in my life
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and being in a city and
from-- from my different friends
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I definitely--I could--I could
definitely sense a conflict
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but I was leaning more
towards secular music--
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Okay. During that time.
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Okay, did you-- was,
was there any particular,
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was there a particular
breakthrough at a given time
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when you were
kind of enlightened
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on the subject of music at all?
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Yes. And around what age?
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May be you don't
give us too much,
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we maybe jumping
ahead of ourselves,
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but around what age did you
kind of have an enlightenment,
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maybe--maybe we can say
a deeper encounter with God
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where things started making
a little more sense? Sure.
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I started writing music, I
remember one time the church,
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a local church that I was a
part of asked me to sing a song.
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And so I decided
to write my own song.
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And so I wrote a
Christian song for church,
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it was in a very simple
key with a very simple melody.
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And it turned out
to be a great blessing.
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That was the
beginning of my journey.
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But it wasn't
until the summer of 2002
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that a good friend
of mine who was also--
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who was also a lover of music.
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He had a Christian punk
band, but in his experience
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he--he found Christ and
once he shared Christ with me,
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I was very-- I
was very impressed
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and drawn to my
friend Peter's spirituality.
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I wanted a piece
of what he had. Right.
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And so when I found
Christ for myself--I'm,
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you know, making
this long story short.
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When I found Christ for myself
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that then gave me a
different taste for, for music,
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than I-- than I once had.
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All right, well, Nestor,
we're gonna try to breakdown
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the issue of music a little
bit and one of the reasons why
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it's an issue is
because there are some people
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who think that music
needs to be a certain way
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and there are other
people who think it doesn't.
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And a lot of people
think music is neutral,
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like it's not good and
it's not bad it just is.
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And can you talk a
little bit about that,
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a little bit about
the biblical concept
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of good quality
music versus bad music.
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Well, first of all maybe
we should answer the question,
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is music neutral?
That's a very good question.
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And in fact I have
been spending some time
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brooding over this issue.
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I think as we address this issue
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specifically your
question, is music neutral?
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We have to--we have to
unpack at least two things.
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First we have to realize that
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music is just another
form of communication.
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Okay, it's one
form of communication.
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Right. What's another?
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What's one form of communication
that we're using right now?
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Talking. Yeah.
We're using speech.
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Okay, that's a
form of communication.
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Another one is
what we have right here
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which we read everyday.
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Right. Print, right.
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Writing, that's
another form of communication.
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You can even
throw-in sign language there.
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People who can't-- who
are deaf and can't speak
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that's a form of communication.
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Music is a form
of communication one
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and the second thing
that we have to understand two
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is that music is communicated
by different mediums.
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For example, the
form of communication
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called music can be
communicated through voice.
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Okay, so I can sing a note,
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you know, I can
use an instrument
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I play guitar and piano.
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I can play use an instrument
to communicate that music
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through that medium, okay?
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So there is
nothing inherently evil
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necessarily of the form of
music and any of the mediums.
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Okay, for example, you know,
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we are saying that
music is not wrong,
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neither is a
certain instrument wrong.
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I don't think a
guitar is inherently evil,
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neither is a
piano inherently evil
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or a drum
inherently evil in itself.
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But to answer your question
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and I think
it's a very good one,
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is music neutral?
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We have to take three things
into consideration though, okay?
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I have a nice
acronym for you, okay?
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PE and M, okay.
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The first is P,
we have to consider--
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we have to consider
the use of music, okay,
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which is the purpose of music.
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Now we want to go to scripture.
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Let's go to this
written form of communication
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and see one way that music
was used for a good purpose.
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That's our first, our first,
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our first point, purpose. Okay.
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Second Chronicles,
Chapter seven, verse six, okay.
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The background
is that Solomon is--
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he builds the
temple for the Lord
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and he is dedicating the temple.
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And we can see what purpose
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Solomon uses
music, look at this.
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The scripture says in 2
Chronicles Chapter 7, verse 6.
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"And the priests
attended to their services,
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the Levites
also with instruments
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of the music of the Lord,
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which King David had
made to praise the Lord,
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saying, 'For His
mercy endures forever,'
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whenever David offered
praise by their ministry."
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Look at this "The priests
sounded trumpets opposite them
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while all Israel stood." Wow.
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Do we see a good
purpose for music in here?
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Yeah. Absolutely.
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Now let's think about 2012,
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are there good
purposes for music today?
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I think so.
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There are times
where we want to be
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spiritually
uplifted so what we do?
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We stick a CD in
our car we play an MP3
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on our iPod or iPhone
and we listen to music,
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to music that
will for the purpose
00:09:31.47\00:09:33.48
of uplifting our
hearts toward God, right?
00:09:33.49\00:09:35.90
Now there is also bad,
00:09:35.91\00:09:37.30
there is also--there are
also bad ways of using music,
00:09:37.31\00:09:40.78
bad purposes for music.
00:09:40.79\00:09:42.44
Look at what the Bible
says in Daniel, Chapter 3, okay?
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Now in Daniel 3
we know the story
00:09:45.76\00:09:49.81
of Shadrach,
Meshach, Abednego. Right.
00:09:49.82\00:09:52.45
And we learn in Daniel Chapter
3 that King Nebuchadnezzar,
00:09:52.46\00:09:57.36
he makes this very
large golden statue
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or image if you could say.
00:10:02.58\00:10:04.78
And what he wanted to do
was invite the entire town
00:10:04.79\00:10:08.71
to come and to bow
down to this image.
00:10:08.72\00:10:11.87
Now look what the scripture says
00:10:11.88\00:10:12.92
specifically of how
music was used in this way.
00:10:12.93\00:10:15.45
The Bible says in Daniel,
Chapter 3 verses 4 through 6.
00:10:15.46\00:10:18.95
"Then a herald cried
aloud, To you it is commanded,
00:10:18.96\00:10:22.47
O people,
nations, and languages,
00:10:22.48\00:10:24.52
that at the time you
hear the sound of the horn,
00:10:24.53\00:10:28.68
flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery,
00:10:28.69\00:10:31.83
in symphony with
all kinds of music,
00:10:31.84\00:10:34.64
you shall fall down
and worship the gold image
00:10:34.65\00:10:36.78
that Nebuchadnezzar has set up
00:10:36.79\00:10:38.40
and whoever does not
fall down and worship,"
00:10:38.41\00:10:40.48
what will happen "they
shall be cast immediately
00:10:40.49\00:10:43.02
into the midst of a
burning fiery furnace."
00:10:43.03\00:10:48.00
So we can see here
that music was used
00:10:48.01\00:10:50.87
for the purpose
of obeisance. Right.
00:10:50.88\00:10:53.93
It was against their, it
was against their freewill.
00:10:53.94\00:10:56.67
Praise the Lord,
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego
00:10:56.68\00:10:59.55
they stood faithful to the Lord.
00:10:59.56\00:11:01.06
So we can see that,
we can see that music
00:11:01.07\00:11:03.44
can be used either
for good or bad purpose.
00:11:03.45\00:11:05.93
Are we clear on that?
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:11:05.94\00:11:07.57
How about our second acronym?
Okay, our second letter E.
00:11:07.58\00:11:11.59
Music has certain effects on us.
00:11:11.60\00:11:13.96
Right. Okay.
00:11:13.97\00:11:14.96
Now you know this story.
00:11:14.97\00:11:16.95
Let's go to 1 Samuel,
Chapter 16 verse 23, okay?
00:11:16.96\00:11:21.10
This has to be the Saul story.
00:11:21.11\00:11:22.42
This is the Saul story,
you are right, okay. Yeah.
00:11:22.43\00:11:24.60
First Samuel
Chapter 16, verse 23.
00:11:24.61\00:11:30.65
We see the effect
of music in a good way.
00:11:30.66\00:11:36.65
The Bible says in
verse 23 and so it was
00:11:36.66\00:11:39.65
"whenever the spirit
from God was upon Saul,
00:11:39.66\00:11:41.57
that David would take a
harp and play it with his hand,
00:11:41.58\00:11:45.90
then Saul would
become refreshed and well,
00:11:45.91\00:11:48.78
and the distressing
spirit would depart from him."
00:11:48.79\00:11:52.45
Isn't that interesting?
00:11:52.46\00:11:53.82
When he added a
stressing spirit upon him
00:11:53.83\00:11:56.75
David would come
and play the harp.
00:11:56.76\00:11:58.72
It's to why we don't have
the music notes. I wish we did.
00:11:58.73\00:12:01.73
To know exactly
what David was playing?
00:12:01.74\00:12:02.77
I wish we did.
00:12:02.78\00:12:03.77
Now I do want to pick
on my friend Dan here,
00:12:03.78\00:12:06.35
but we were
roommates a few months ago
00:12:06.36\00:12:08.91
and sometimes he would
play he would play guitar
00:12:08.92\00:12:11.86
and it had a
soothing effect on me.
00:12:11.87\00:12:13.56
Now I wouldn't
say to this point,
00:12:13.57\00:12:14.87
to the point where Saul was,
00:12:14.88\00:12:16.64
but I would-- you can see that
00:12:16.65\00:12:18.62
there was a good effect on Saul.
00:12:18.63\00:12:20.26
You are giving me
too much credit. Yeah.
00:12:20.27\00:12:22.75
But we also see a
bad effect in scripture.
00:12:22.76\00:12:25.04
Okay, let's go to
Exodus, Chapter 32.
00:12:25.05\00:12:28.33
Now we all know this story.
It's a very unfortunate one.
00:12:28.34\00:12:33.78
While Moses was on the Mount
00:12:33.79\00:12:37.10
receiving the
Commandments from God
00:12:37.11\00:12:39.19
something was
going on with the people
00:12:39.20\00:12:41.93
that he led out of Egypt.
00:12:41.94\00:12:44.10
And we read something,
we know from a previous
00:12:44.11\00:12:48.68
from early on in the passage
that they began to celebrate,
00:12:48.69\00:12:54.17
dance, take all
of their jewelry off
00:12:54.18\00:12:57.08
and make an image.
00:12:57.09\00:12:59.01
And the Bible says in
starting with verse 17
00:12:59.02\00:13:01.75
of Exodus Chapter 32, verse 17,
00:13:01.76\00:13:04.96
"and when Joshua heard
the noise of the people
00:13:04.97\00:13:06.88
as they shouted,
he said to Moses,
00:13:06.89\00:13:08.87
There is a noise
of war in the camp."
00:13:08.88\00:13:11.52
But he said, "It is
not the noise of the shout
00:13:11.53\00:13:14.25
of victory nor the
noise of the cry of defeat,
00:13:14.26\00:13:17.78
but the sound
of singing I hear."
00:13:17.79\00:13:20.57
Okay, so there was music.
00:13:20.58\00:13:22.06
It wasn't only shouting
but there was singing going on.
00:13:22.07\00:13:24.47
And the rest of the
scripture says verse 19,
00:13:24.48\00:13:27.05
so it was "as soon as
he came near the camp,
00:13:27.06\00:13:30.08
that he saw the
calf and the dancing,
00:13:30.09\00:13:32.72
so Moses' anger became hot,
00:13:32.73\00:13:34.46
and he cast the
tablets out of his hands
00:13:34.47\00:13:36.56
and broke them at the
foot of the mountain."
00:13:36.57\00:13:38.89
Now we see the
effect that it had on Moses.
00:13:38.90\00:13:41.40
He was very upset
because he was thinking
00:13:41.41\00:13:43.37
how could this happen
but what I want to focus
00:13:43.38\00:13:45.36
on is the effect that
music had on the people
00:13:45.37\00:13:47.98
that were
dancing and worshiping.
00:13:47.99\00:13:49.75
And we know that in this--
00:13:49.76\00:13:52.22
there's another
verse in this passage
00:13:52.23\00:13:54.15
that speaks about how the
Israelites rose up to play.
00:13:54.16\00:13:58.61
When you look at the
actual word the phrase there
00:13:58.62\00:14:01.62
it's not speaking
about playing games
00:14:01.63\00:14:04.50
and it's not a
regular-- regular setting.
00:14:04.51\00:14:06.70
It's not monopoly--
00:14:06.71\00:14:08.48
It's not a
regular Saturday night
00:14:08.49\00:14:09.78
get-together, okay? Sure.
00:14:09.79\00:14:11.18
There was some sexual activity
going on in this passage.
00:14:11.19\00:14:15.30
Watch out. And it's very clear.
00:14:15.31\00:14:17.15
So not only number
one, do we see that music
00:14:17.16\00:14:19.27
has a purpose we
can also see that
00:14:19.28\00:14:22.13
in this instance that music
had an effect in a bad way.
00:14:22.14\00:14:25.35
You know, I just read an article
00:14:25.36\00:14:27.66
and I think this has been
around for quite some time.
00:14:27.67\00:14:30.79
There was a student who
did an experiment on mice.
00:14:30.80\00:14:34.96
With one group of
mice this individual played
00:14:34.97\00:14:40.14
had the mice
listen to classical music
00:14:40.15\00:14:43.83
for about 24
hours-- for 24 hours.
00:14:43.84\00:14:46.36
And then for another
group of mice he had this,
00:14:46.37\00:14:49.13
he had this group of
mice listen to hard rock,
00:14:49.14\00:14:53.85
heavy metal music for 24 hours.
00:14:53.86\00:14:56.64
What he wanted to do was
to see what kind of music,
00:14:56.65\00:15:00.18
what kind of
influence or what kind of effect
00:15:00.19\00:15:02.82
would music have on these mice
as they went through a maze.
00:15:02.83\00:15:07.68
Guess what happened when
he put them inside that maze.
00:15:07.69\00:15:10.95
The good mice were
trying to find their way
00:15:10.96\00:15:14.35
through the maze, the one that
listened to classical music.
00:15:14.36\00:15:16.82
But this individual
had to stop the experiment
00:15:16.83\00:15:20.65
because the mice that were--
00:15:20.66\00:15:22.40
that listened to heavy
metal music for 24 hours
00:15:22.41\00:15:26.16
they started
killing the other mice.
00:15:26.17\00:15:28.19
Wow. Wow.
00:15:28.20\00:15:30.11
Music doesn't only--
not only carries a purpose,
00:15:30.12\00:15:34.35
but it also has an effect.
00:15:34.36\00:15:38.07
And it doesn't really
affect humans apparently
00:15:38.08\00:15:40.95
it actually
affects the animal kingdom.
00:15:40.96\00:15:43.03
And actually it's interesting
because when we look at,
00:15:43.04\00:15:46.00
you know, like documentaries
when we look at epics
00:15:46.01\00:15:48.73
or when you look
at even some films
00:15:48.74\00:15:50.76
usually in order to
magnify a particular scene
00:15:50.77\00:15:55.71
you have the appropriate
music that goes with it.
00:15:55.72\00:15:57.84
For example when you
have the conquering hero
00:15:57.85\00:16:01.05
that liberates the nation from
whatever the oppressed people,
00:16:01.06\00:16:05.09
you have kind of this, you know,
00:16:05.10\00:16:07.29
very majestic type of
crescendoing type of music.
00:16:07.30\00:16:12.57
Because it's
appropriate to the scene
00:16:12.58\00:16:14.64
and it's supposed to
develop a sensation to you.
00:16:14.65\00:16:18.42
And of course in a romantic
type of a setting you have--
00:16:18.43\00:16:21.76
Sure they are
documentaries you're watching?
00:16:21.77\00:16:25.04
Documentaries as well, you know,
00:16:25.24\00:16:26.26
documentaries, movies,
00:16:26.27\00:16:27.59
even commercials you find that.
00:16:27.60\00:16:28.81
You know, even
science is backing that up
00:16:28.82\00:16:31.04
that sound carries an
emotion with it. Right.
00:16:31.05\00:16:34.07
You know, the study of
syntax and those things,
00:16:34.08\00:16:36.12
so it definitely has an effect.
00:16:36.13\00:16:38.41
Now this is, so the first one
just so that our viewers know
00:16:38.42\00:16:41.95
because just to make
sure that I remember,
00:16:41.96\00:16:45.16
the P is
purpose, the E is effects,
00:16:45.17\00:16:49.83
and you gonna take us to the--
00:16:49.84\00:16:51.81
M. The M.
00:16:51.82\00:16:53.17
M. So this spells PEM.
00:16:53.18\00:16:54.66
It spells PEM. Is PEM a word?
00:16:54.67\00:16:56.71
It's not, maybe, maybe in
my dictionary it is just PEM.
00:16:56.72\00:16:59.46
Okay, that's fine, PEM.
So the M, what is the M?
00:16:59.47\00:17:01.97
The M is the
message, the message, okay.
00:17:01.98\00:17:05.85
It's the message
behind the medium.
00:17:05.86\00:17:08.43
Now people, some
people will say that
00:17:08.44\00:17:12.16
music is neutral and in fact
I wanted to take that position
00:17:12.17\00:17:14.82
when I was
thinking through this.
00:17:14.83\00:17:16.01
Music is neutral,
doesn't have an effect
00:17:16.02\00:17:17.99
but when you really,
when you think about music,
00:17:18.00\00:17:20.56
when you think about the medium
there is always a message,
00:17:20.57\00:17:24.90
there is always
some type of worldview,
00:17:24.91\00:17:27.30
there is always
some type of culture,
00:17:27.31\00:17:28.81
there is always some
type of belief system
00:17:28.82\00:17:30.47
beliefe system
attached to that medium.
00:17:30.48\00:17:32.66
For example, I'm not
using speech out of the vacuum.
00:17:32.67\00:17:36.73
I'm using speech right now
00:17:36.74\00:17:37.96
for the purpose
of talking to you
00:17:37.97\00:17:40.39
and the audience
about the issue of music.
00:17:40.40\00:17:42.91
There was--there's always
a purpose behind the medium.
00:17:42.92\00:17:46.13
I am indebted to
Christian Apologetics,
00:17:46.14\00:17:48.84
his name is Ravi Zacharias.
00:17:48.85\00:17:49.84
In fact I had an opportunity
to see him a few days ago.
00:17:49.85\00:17:53.34
And he said that there are
three levels of philosophy.
00:17:53.35\00:17:55.17
He said that there is
a hard educated level,
00:17:55.18\00:17:56.82
higher level,
academic philosophy.
00:17:56.83\00:17:58.83
There is the arts, music, media,
00:17:58.84\00:18:03.66
and then you
have the third level
00:18:03.67\00:18:04.73
which is kitchen-- kitchen talk,
00:18:04.74\00:18:06.26
you know, table talk like
what we're doing right here.
00:18:06.27\00:18:08.58
And when he says is that
the arts basically reflects--
00:18:08.59\00:18:11.50
it reflects a certain philosophy
or worldview behind it.
00:18:11.51\00:18:16.37
And I
completely agree with that.
00:18:16.38\00:18:17.94
I think that's a very,
that's a very profound statement
00:18:17.95\00:18:20.31
and I think it's very
accurate of a society today.
00:18:20.32\00:18:23.91
In other words certain
artist that are conveying
00:18:23.92\00:18:27.79
a particular type of music,
00:18:27.80\00:18:29.76
there is a message
behind it-- Exactly.
00:18:29.77\00:18:31.99
That attitude, there's values,
00:18:32.00\00:18:33.58
there is a
philosophy that maybe-- Exactly.
00:18:33.59\00:18:35.33
Maybe could be hid-in at times
00:18:35.34\00:18:37.27
but nonetheless is
there is what you are saying.
00:18:37.28\00:18:39.05
It's always there. Okay.
00:18:39.06\00:18:40.17
It is always there. So
let use the instance of,
00:18:40.18\00:18:42.95
let use the instance of
a rap music for example.
00:18:42.96\00:18:46.74
Specifically rap
music, violent rap music--
00:18:46.75\00:18:49.56
Like the gangster rap type--
00:18:49.57\00:18:50.67
The gangster rap or the
one's that promote sexuality.
00:18:50.68\00:18:54.69
Sure. There's a
message behind that.
00:18:54.70\00:18:58.35
You think of rock music,
00:18:58.36\00:19:01.60
there's a certain
message behind that.
00:19:01.61\00:19:03.45
In fact if you look at--
00:19:03.46\00:19:04.73
I did some study on the
history of rock and roll
00:19:04.74\00:19:07.41
seeing that the very,
the very essence of it
00:19:07.42\00:19:10.99
is a rebellion
against the foreman,
00:19:11.00\00:19:13.66
rebellion against law, against
convention against values.
00:19:13.67\00:19:18.34
So it's a rebellion
against convention like you said
00:19:18.35\00:19:20.98
I think it's a
very good word, Dan.
00:19:20.99\00:19:22.69
So we see here that, that there
is a message behind the medium.
00:19:22.70\00:19:26.25
Now what about
classical music, okay.
00:19:26.26\00:19:29.55
That one is, that one
is debatable I understand,
00:19:29.56\00:19:32.28
but at the same
time I was just talking
00:19:32.29\00:19:34.19
with a friend during
a certain point in time
00:19:34.20\00:19:36.73
classical music was used
by a certain group of people
00:19:36.74\00:19:40.08
mostly the Boricua or
the elite part of society
00:19:40.09\00:19:43.41
where as the common folk people
00:19:43.42\00:19:45.15
wouldn't necessarily
listen to that type of music.
00:19:45.16\00:19:47.07
So may be at a certain point
what was being communicated
00:19:47.08\00:19:50.09
during that time
was--was elitism.
00:19:50.10\00:19:55.22
One--may be I am
stretching it there
00:19:55.23\00:19:56.94
but there may have
been a message behind that.
00:19:56.95\00:19:59.23
But instrumental music can
still communicate a message
00:19:59.24\00:20:03.98
you just talked
about romance films,
00:20:03.99\00:20:05.98
let's just think
of a horror film,
00:20:05.99\00:20:07.24
they play, you know, they play--
00:20:07.25\00:20:08.74
Gloomy, doomy type--
There's always a message,
00:20:08.96\00:20:11.82
some type of message
that's being portrayed
00:20:11.83\00:20:14.42
trying to scare
the people for example.
00:20:14.43\00:20:17.03
But let's look at the
positive side of the message
00:20:17.04\00:20:19.30
behind the music,
behind the medium.
00:20:19.31\00:20:21.87
Let's look at Christian music.
00:20:21.88\00:20:23.91
Let's look at
music that we listen to,
00:20:23.92\00:20:26.21
music that has a
theological message behind it.
00:20:26.22\00:20:29.12
I don't know about you but music
that really uplifts my heart,
00:20:29.13\00:20:33.65
are songs that--that have
a strong message behind it.
00:20:33.66\00:20:37.51
For example this song,
"It Is Well With My Soul."
00:20:37.52\00:20:40.63
"When peace like a
river, attendeth my way,
00:20:40.64\00:20:42.21
when sorrows like
sea billows roll."
00:20:42.22\00:20:44.16
And then the second verse,
00:20:44.17\00:20:45.24
"My sin, oh, the joy
of this glorious thought,
00:20:45.25\00:20:47.18
my sin, not in
part but the whole."
00:20:47.19\00:20:49.04
They're speaking
about the struggle,
00:20:49.05\00:20:51.41
this intensity
inside the human heart
00:20:51.42\00:20:53.57
and finding Solace in God.
00:20:53.58\00:20:55.75
So that's what's
wonderful and the good side
00:20:55.76\00:20:58.83
it's just as
wonderful about music.
00:20:58.84\00:21:00.28
It ties positive and
good meaning behind the music.
00:21:00.29\00:21:03.88
So then obviously
there is good messages.
00:21:03.89\00:21:07.30
There is music
with good messages
00:21:07.31\00:21:09.08
and there's music
with bad messages.
00:21:09.09\00:21:10.94
So the idea then
is not necessarily
00:21:10.95\00:21:12.92
to throw out music entirely
00:21:12.93\00:21:14.91
because music
was created by God.
00:21:14.92\00:21:17.26
Music was intended
originally for the purpose.
00:21:17.27\00:21:20.19
So, Nestor, let's get practical,
00:21:20.20\00:21:21.59
what do we tell young adults
who may be watching this program
00:21:21.60\00:21:25.23
gonna say okay, well, how
do I know what the message is,
00:21:25.24\00:21:31.23
what--what the purpose of
that particle genre of music?
00:21:31.24\00:21:34.66
I guess some may be a little bit
more obvious with the yelling
00:21:34.67\00:21:39.26
and with the blatant vulgarity
in the content of the lyrics,
00:21:39.27\00:21:43.17
but is there any principles
may be that you discovered
00:21:43.18\00:21:45.58
in your experience that
may be helpful for young person
00:21:45.59\00:21:47.56
trying to make
intelligent decisions.
00:21:47.57\00:21:49.54
That's a very good question.
00:21:49.55\00:21:51.31
I think that if we
just dwell--you know,
00:21:51.32\00:21:53.81
just dwell on the
theology and the ideas behind it
00:21:53.82\00:21:55.77
and if you don't get practical
then this really wasn't,
00:21:55.78\00:21:58.92
this really wasn't
a relevant program.
00:21:58.93\00:22:01.27
I think that one
thing that we can,
00:22:01.28\00:22:03.31
one principle that I can think
of is having the right filter.
00:22:03.32\00:22:07.29
Now what is that filter? So
glad you asked that question.
00:22:07.30\00:22:09.96
Philippians,
Chapter 4 verse 8, okay.
00:22:09.97\00:22:12.65
Philippians, Chapter 4 verse 8.
00:22:12.66\00:22:14.26
This is a text that
I've shared, you know,
00:22:16.01\00:22:17.10
I've let out in
teen camp meetings.
00:22:17.11\00:22:20.72
I've shared this with
teens when young people ask me,
00:22:20.73\00:22:23.28
you know what--then what
music is good to listen to.
00:22:23.29\00:22:25.08
Well, the scripture says here in
Philippians, Chapter 4 verse 8,
00:22:25.09\00:22:27.91
"Finally, brethren,
whatever things are true,
00:22:27.92\00:22:30.32
whatever things are
noble, whatever things are just,
00:22:30.33\00:22:32.43
whatever things are pure,
whatever things are lovely,
00:22:32.44\00:22:34.82
whatever things
are of good report,
00:22:34.83\00:22:36.13
if there be any virtue,
00:22:36.14\00:22:37.16
and if there be
any praise worthy,
00:22:37.17\00:22:39.07
meditate on these things."
00:22:39.08\00:22:41.22
So I allow this to be
my filter to determine
00:22:41.23\00:22:46.42
what I should listen to.
00:22:46.43\00:22:49.61
You know, we can
talk about music,
00:22:49.62\00:22:52.21
we can talk about
bad music, but, you know,
00:22:52.22\00:22:54.52
there's a lot
good music out there.
00:22:54.53\00:22:56.13
There are a lot
of songs out there
00:22:56.14\00:22:57.93
that really uplift the soul.
00:22:57.94\00:23:01.25
I know that, you know,
there is a Christian artist
00:23:01.26\00:23:04.84
by the name of Fernando Ortega
that I listened to sometimes.
00:23:04.85\00:23:07.83
And he has music that-that's
straight from scripture
00:23:07.84\00:23:10.14
and that uplifts the soul.
00:23:10.15\00:23:12.55
Songs, a lot of hymns
that I've already mentioned,
00:23:12.56\00:23:14.43
songs that lift
the heart, you know,
00:23:14.44\00:23:16.58
I am sure that there
are songs that you know
00:23:16.59\00:23:20.23
fit this category of
being true, noble, honest,
00:23:20.24\00:23:23.84
pure, of good report,
things that have virtue.
00:23:23.85\00:23:26.25
I am sure that there's
music in your own library
00:23:26.26\00:23:27.82
that fits this category.
00:23:27.83\00:23:29.56
So Philippians 4
is a good guide for us
00:23:29.57\00:23:31.41
to kind of distinguish between
good music and bad music--
00:23:31.42\00:23:34.39
And it'll definitely
give us an opportunity
00:23:34.40\00:23:36.42
to make intelligent decisions
with the choice of music.
00:23:36.43\00:23:39.34
Now in may be a minute, Nestor,
00:23:39.35\00:23:42.53
what--why is
there may be challenges
00:23:42.54\00:23:46.78
with music in the church?
00:23:46.79\00:23:49.57
I know that's kind of torture
in one minute. One minute.
00:23:49.58\00:23:52.53
Can you maybe give
us, you know, why, why,
00:23:52.54\00:23:54.14
what is the fundamental problem
00:23:54.15\00:23:55.36
that there's
problems in the church.
00:23:55.37\00:23:56.73
We talked about secular
music and maybe the messages,
00:23:56.74\00:23:59.12
but what about Christian music?
00:23:59.13\00:24:00.75
Why is there
controversy within this genre?
00:24:00.76\00:24:04.07
Sure. I think that, I
think that, in one minute,
00:24:04.08\00:24:08.13
I can't believe you're
only giving me one minute.
00:24:08.14\00:24:10.01
I think that I can think
about these two things of why
00:24:10.02\00:24:12.94
there's a problem in
the church over this issue
00:24:12.95\00:24:15.49
and it comes with those levels.
00:24:15.50\00:24:16.69
I think first of all I
think that a lot of individuals
00:24:16.70\00:24:21.54
sing music or they
don't criticize and reason
00:24:21.55\00:24:25.91
or critique the
music that they listen to.
00:24:25.92\00:24:28.23
So there may be music
that might have a connotation
00:24:28.24\00:24:30.74
with a certain genre
maybe there is rock or hip hop
00:24:30.75\00:24:33.66
or what not, things
that might remind individuals
00:24:33.67\00:24:36.13
of the secular world.
00:24:36.14\00:24:38.68
The issue is that I
think that some people
00:24:38.69\00:24:40.69
don't critically
think about their music.
00:24:40.70\00:24:42.96
It's important to
think about the medium
00:24:42.97\00:24:44.38
and the messages
behind it. Right.
00:24:44.39\00:24:45.98
And I think, I
think most importantly
00:24:45.99\00:24:51.01
when I think the issue
stems from the fact that
00:24:51.02\00:24:54.34
if we as
individuals really are honest
00:24:54.35\00:24:56.76
and we come to the
word and we say Lord, okay,
00:24:56.77\00:24:59.88
I see Philippians 4:8.
00:24:59.89\00:25:01.89
How can you, how can I
allow you Lord to determine
00:25:01.90\00:25:05.83
the kind of music
that we should listen to?
00:25:05.84\00:25:07.93
I think that if we are
humble enough as individuals
00:25:07.94\00:25:10.42
as a church and say and
say how can I truly praise God.
00:25:10.43\00:25:15.81
How can I truly praise Him
00:25:15.82\00:25:18.64
and how can I even
use this music at church?
00:25:18.65\00:25:21.26
How can I determine--
how can I determine the base
00:25:21.27\00:25:23.19
on what scripture says.
00:25:23.20\00:25:24.24
I think that if we
try to be theological
00:25:24.25\00:25:26.18
and at the same
time if we're critical
00:25:26.19\00:25:27.86
about the music
that we listen to I think
00:25:27.87\00:25:29.22
that some of the
problem will subside.
00:25:29.23\00:25:31.29
Yeah, I like that because
it's a good way of determining,
00:25:31.30\00:25:34.49
you know, what an
individual should listen to
00:25:34.50\00:25:36.80
but also for
organizations like the church
00:25:36.81\00:25:38.78
and selecting music
for the church service.
00:25:38.79\00:25:41.74
You know, it's a
good filter, you know,
00:25:41.75\00:25:44.51
does this fit in the
Philippians 4:8 category.
00:25:44.52\00:25:47.08
And I think a
lot of times we say
00:25:47.09\00:25:49.05
if it's not a hymn its
not, you know, Philippians 4:8,
00:25:49.06\00:25:52.18
which isn't true
from what you are saying.
00:25:52.19\00:25:54.15
We have to filter it
and be very critical,
00:25:54.16\00:25:57.90
you know, about the
music that we allow to come
00:25:57.91\00:26:00.22
into our worship
service. Right. Exactly.
00:26:00.23\00:26:02.25
Now Nestor in 30
seconds, I gave you a minute,
00:26:02.26\00:26:05.27
now I'm gonna give
you 30 seconds. Okay.
00:26:05.28\00:26:08.08
What counsel would
you give a young person
00:26:08.09\00:26:10.19
may be that's kind of
like you at an early age,
00:26:10.20\00:26:13.18
may be identify it or
maybe he's just recently
00:26:13.19\00:26:15.13
identifying that God has
given them a gift of music
00:26:15.14\00:26:17.77
and they want to
use it for the Lord?
00:26:17.78\00:26:20.18
You know, what
counsel would you give them
00:26:20.22\00:26:22.76
to develop this
gift in about 30 seconds?
00:26:22.77\00:26:25.24
What do you think? Sure.
00:26:25.25\00:26:27.14
I think that if God has
given you a gift for music
00:26:27.15\00:26:31.13
if He has given you
a gift in voice or gift
00:26:31.14\00:26:33.63
within instruments
definitely use it for the Lord.
00:26:33.64\00:26:37.28
I can speak from my
own experience the gift
00:26:37.29\00:26:40.42
was confirmed at a
very early age for me
00:26:40.43\00:26:42.53
and through a series of
events I was--by God's grace
00:26:42.54\00:26:45.77
I was able to make my first CD.
00:26:45.78\00:26:48.41
Some original compositions
and some--one hymn as well.
00:26:48.42\00:26:52.39
Which I've heard and I
love. Praise God. Praise God.
00:26:52.40\00:26:55.00
But I think that if the
Lord is pressed upon your heart,
00:26:56.46\00:26:59.63
he's giving you a skill
definitely use it for His glory.
00:26:59.64\00:27:03.72
Get involved in your
church, speak with your pastor
00:27:03.73\00:27:07.30
and I want--I also want
to say speak to the pastor
00:27:07.31\00:27:09.99
about the values of--of the
values of music in your church.
00:27:10.00\00:27:12.99
Ask them, you know,
how can I use my music
00:27:13.00\00:27:15.26
at the same time
being biblically sound
00:27:15.27\00:27:16.99
and using my music in a good way
00:27:17.00\00:27:19.53
that won't
necessarily harm the people.
00:27:19.54\00:27:22.32
That's one way and
whenever the opportunity comes,
00:27:22.33\00:27:25.76
you know, sing, enjoy,
enjoy singing with friends,
00:27:25.77\00:27:30.32
if you have a group, you know,
00:27:30.33\00:27:33.67
former group sing songs together
just expose yourself and--
00:27:33.68\00:27:36.30
Expose yourself, get
out there, and get involved.
00:27:36.31\00:27:38.18
Nestor, I wish we had more time.
00:27:38.19\00:27:39.72
Wow, this has
been very insightful
00:27:39.73\00:27:41.01
and I pray that the
Lord blesses you in your
00:27:41.02\00:27:43.26
music ministry and I know
that He has blessed others
00:27:43.27\00:27:46.04
and He will
continue to bless those
00:27:46.05\00:27:48.47
that are yet to
listen to your music.
00:27:48.48\00:27:50.53
For those that have
watched this program,
00:27:50.54\00:27:52.34
I want to encourage you
that there is wholesome music
00:27:52.35\00:27:54.97
out there that is
tasteful, that is edifying,
00:27:54.98\00:27:57.62
and that will enrich
your experience with God.
00:27:57.63\00:27:59.53
God bless you till next time.
00:27:59.54\00:28:00.76