Hello, again. My
name is Jay Rosario
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and welcome to Engage.
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A program that
deals with relevant issues
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and challenges
facing young adults
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in their Christian journey.
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Today we have a
very interesting program
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and we wanna encourage
those that are of minor age
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or young children
that if parents consider it
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unsuitable for
them to be present
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because of the
nature of our discussion,
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we encourage children to
be absent from this segments.
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Joining us today
we've my good friend, Dan.
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How is it going, Dan? Good, Jay.
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Thanks for having me.
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So, Dan, what exactly
are we gonna be talking about
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that's so sensitive today.
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Well, today we're talking about
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the issue of pornography.
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It's an issue
that we as Adventist
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or as Christians have
kind of pushed under the rug.
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We haven't
really talked about it
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openly which is what
we're trying to do today
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because we wanna-- we
want the Bible to speak
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for itself and the
Bible says so much about it.
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So that's why we've also invited
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our good friend Ariel here.
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Ariel Roldan. Roldan.
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Let's bring Ariel Roldan.
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Thanks for
coming backing, Ariel.
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My pleasure. We
appreciate that you're here.
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I'm so glad to
see you guys again.
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For those of you--
for those that don't know
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who you're, Ariel,
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just may be you can say
a few words about yourself.
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I'm currently
pastoring in Michigan
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and also finishing my
Masters of Divinity at Andrews.
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I've been married
for almost five years now
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and I have a beautiful
eight month old little girl
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that is learning to
give daddy big wet kisses.
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Nice. I'm loving it.
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So soon you're gonna
have white hairs. No, no.
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'cause of the wisdom and
the experience of a father.
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Uh, I don't know,
but I don't know if maybe
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I'll have hair left.
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I wouldn't mind if it's white.
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Yeah, well, we're
talking about pornography today.
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This is a sensitive
issue for many people. Yes.
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And I think some people
are probably tempted to think
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that it's not a big issue.
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And I just want to read
a couple of statistics here
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just to start us off because
I think they speak more than,
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you know, what we
may be have heard.
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12% of all
websites on the internet,
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the entire
internet, 12% of those
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are dedicated
just to pornography.
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Worldwide? Worldwide.
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Worldwide
internet. Worldwide internet.
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25% of all internet
searches are for porn.
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That's one quarter of
all-- everything that's--
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every time you do a
Google search you do four times
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and one of those will
be for porn. Wow. Wow.
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35% of all internet
downloads, worldwide downloads,
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35% of those are
related to porn. Hmm.
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37%--this isn't
just an issue for,
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you know, that teens
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or secular people
struggle with 37% of all pastors
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said that it
was a struggle. Wow.
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And 51% of those pastors
said it was a temptation.
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So this is a big thing
and it's not just something
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for that men struggle with,
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six out of ten women
struggle with it. Wow.
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That was surprising to
me, I didn't know that.
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60%. 60% of women.
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Those are--those are
pretty disturbing numbers.
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So and the Bible
says a lot about this.
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May be you
could just open us up,
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maybe recap a little bit of what
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we talked about in the
last program and lead into,
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you know, why this is, you know,
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what the Bible says about this.
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Pornography needs to
be placed with any context
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and basically
pornography is a sexual act
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being portrayed
visually via print or video
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nowadays in various
forms but the context is sex.
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And in order to
discuss something like this
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we need to go back to the Bible
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and allow the Bible to put
the context of sex around it.
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And my favorite place
to go to as you guys know
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for the last thing is Genesis.
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Genesis. Oh, good memory.
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Chapter 2. Chapter 2 verse 7.
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For me all of these discussions
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regarding sexuality we
need to go back to the original.
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And in Genesis Chapter
2:7 we've a loaded passage,
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very powerful
passage in verse 7.
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Jay, could you
read it for us please?
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Genesis 2:7 says "The
Lord God formed the man
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from the dust of the ground
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and breathed into his
nostrils the breath of life,
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and the man
became a living being."
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The creation of a man
was not something that was,
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here's this part about man
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and here's this part about man
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and here's this part about man.
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Man as a whole was sexual,
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because He
created male and female.
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And as a male or as a female
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we have components to ourselves
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that all are inter-matching,
you cannot separate.
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And you have our mental
aspects or intellectual,
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we have our emotional.
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We have our physical,
which includes the sexual.
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That sexual act
itself is the most
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simplified way of saying it.
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And then of course we
have the spiritual component
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to who we are as a whole.
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And though we may
separate the components
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the reality is that all of me
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is all of those
components at the same time.
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You cannot
separate one from the other
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and pornography
does exactly that.
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It tries to rip
out the physical aspect
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and isolate it and
present it as the whole.
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Like this is the entire sex act.
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Where in reality it's a rip-off,
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it's a knock off
because it's actually 25%
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of what a human
can experience sexual--
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It's almost incomplete.
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Extremely
incomplete and extremely false.
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As we get more into the program
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I had to do some
research to this and be careful.
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I mean we talk about
pastors and things like that.
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Paul says, "If you
think you're standing,
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watch-out you might fall in."
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This is a trap that I think
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many pastors
need to tread lightly.
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So when I did
research I prayed a lot.
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I didn't want to, you know,
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be going to
places where I shouldn't,
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but some of the side
effects that I would see--
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this one particular
documentary done by the BBC.
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Then I focused on
the industry itself,
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but focused on male actors.
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And one of the
things that baffles me
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was most of these men in their
early 20's are experiencing
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difficulties
experiencing arousal
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and so they take
things like Viagra
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at the ages of 19, 20, 21,
22, 23 even though it will harm
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their hearts in the long run.
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The money obviously
is a driver for them
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but during the
interview they spoke
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about how it is no
longer pleasurable.
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The drive for it is
money not the sexual act.
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So for me it just
convinced me further
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that what the
Bible was saying is true
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and that it is not
only just an incomplete act,
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it is an act that
will get impoverished
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and less and less
pleasurable as it continues on.
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Just like we
read in Psalm 16:11,
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"The pleasures that God
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provides for us
are everlasting."
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But in Hebrews
11:24 and 25 we learn that
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"The pleasures of
sin are temporary."
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Now, Ariel, what if--
what if a viewer says,
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"well, that's fine, Ariel,"
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but, you know, may be somebody
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who just simply
watches it or may be they say,
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well, after all sex is something
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that is that God has created
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and it doesn't hurt
the observe the mere act
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or is there a danger
to observing and is it--
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do people
generally just observe?
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I mean what's the
problem with this?
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The problem is that
speaking pharmacology,
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my background as a
nurse, these are big words,
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this means speaking about drugs.
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Okay, thank you, I don't have--
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I have no idea what
you're talking about.
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Speaking about
drugs, you have heroin,
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cocaine and all these big guns
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and then you have
nicotine and marijuana.
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These are the gateway drugs.
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They are the bridges
that will get you to those.
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And so pornography
is a gateway entity
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into--leading us into
practice things like self-abuse
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or self-pleasuring which
is also known as masturbation.
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This self pleasuring
act in itself is actually
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and even more
impoverished a practice
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that leaves the person
feeling less fulfilled than
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if we do not practicing it.
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Many people--
there is controversies
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obviously because science
does research and does studies
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and as I looked at articles
on different medical journals
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there is no
clear definitive answer
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saying its harmful
or its not harmful,
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self-pleasuring is
something harmful or not.
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But I began to look at
the word of God for answers.
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Some day the
medical world may agree
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or disagree but it's relevant.
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I think the word
of God so far to me
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has proven to
be pretty accurate.
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So the track record of the word
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I think gives me confidence
that some of the principles
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what we find here will give us
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some definite--
definitive answers.
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I'll like for us to
turn to the Bible again
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to Genesis
Chapter 2. Genesis again.
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Genesis is
loaded with information.
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And I'm going to kind of share
a little bit of my journey.
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I did not just
decide one day to decide,
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oh, I like to
have seminars on sex.
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I was a young man with questions
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and coming from
a Hispanic culture,
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my culture--like we
discuss in our previous program
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it's been highly taboo
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and there was no
clear answers for questions.
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And one of the questions
that I had that with verse 23.
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Genesis Chapter 2, verse 23,
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Dan, could you
read it for us? Sure.
00:09:30.74\00:09:33.29
"And Adam said, this
is now bone of my bone,
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and flesh of my flesh.
She shall be called Woman,
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because she was
taken out of Man." Okay.
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You've a--the actual
place where man and woman
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become their own sexual
entity a man and a woman.
00:09:46.40\00:09:50.48
And, Jay, could you
read verse 24 for us?
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Sure. This is the clincher.
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Verse 24 says "Therefore
a man shall leave his father
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and mother and be
joined to his wife,
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and they shall
become one flesh."
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In that last part I
went to my dad and I said,
00:10:00.11\00:10:02.58
dad what is one flesh?
00:10:02.59\00:10:04.52
And my dad began to stutter
00:10:04.53\00:10:06.34
and sweat and sweat
and Maria, called my mom.
00:10:06.35\00:10:11.22
Your son has
something to say to you.
00:10:11.23\00:10:12.99
Leave. It's very uncomfortable.
00:10:13.00\00:10:15.31
Sure. And so it haunted me.
00:10:15.32\00:10:18.49
I began to ask what is
one flesh, what is one flesh.
00:10:18.50\00:10:21.40
And this journey led me to 2nd--
00:10:21.41\00:10:24.22
1st Corinthians, Chapter 6.
00:10:24.23\00:10:25.64
We can keep our
finger in Genesis,
00:10:25.65\00:10:27.69
Chapter 2 and turn real quick
to 1st Corinthians, Chapter 6.
00:10:27.70\00:10:33.46
I think that our
viewers can hopefully also see
00:10:35.56\00:10:38.08
that when you have
questions about the Bible,
00:10:38.09\00:10:40.53
if you don't have all
the answers in one section,
00:10:40.54\00:10:42.77
you'll probably find
it in another section.
00:10:42.78\00:10:43.92
Right, that's right. So
the Bible answers itself.
00:10:43.93\00:10:48.01
In 1st Corinthians, Chapter
6 verses 15 and 16. I'll read.
00:10:48.02\00:10:55.65
"Do you not know that your
bodies are members of Christ?
00:10:55.66\00:10:59.77
Shall I then take
the members of Christ,
00:10:59.78\00:11:01.86
and make them the
members of a harlot?
00:11:01.87\00:11:04.29
Certainly not.
Or do you not know
00:11:04.30\00:11:07.80
that he who is joined to a
harlot is one body with her?
00:11:07.81\00:11:12.54
For the two, He says,
shall become one flesh."
00:11:12.55\00:11:16.98
Now Paul here is quoting
what passage from the Bible?
00:11:16.99\00:11:19.78
Genesis. Genesis 24.
00:11:19.79\00:11:21.91
In the context often
God makes the declaration
00:11:21.92\00:11:24.08
and the two
shall become one flesh.
00:11:24.09\00:11:25.57
What was that
context in Genesis Chapter 2?
00:11:25.58\00:11:29.21
The relationship
that Adam and Eve
00:11:29.22\00:11:30.83
are gonna have
to with each other.
00:11:30.84\00:11:32.24
What was that context?
00:11:32.25\00:11:33.65
Marriage. Husband and wife.
Marriage, husband and wife.
00:11:33.66\00:11:36.11
What is this context
00:11:36.12\00:11:37.19
in which Paul is
quoting the same passage?
00:11:37.20\00:11:41.67
Adultery. Yeah, exactly.
00:11:41.68\00:11:43.63
Yet the same
results. Interesting.
00:11:43.64\00:11:46.78
So most people think, you know,
00:11:46.79\00:11:48.02
now when pastors would
speak about this passage
00:11:48.03\00:11:50.50
of that two shall
become one flesh and, you know,
00:11:50.51\00:11:52.41
in weddings we talk about this.
00:11:52.42\00:11:53.98
We always put into context
that this can only happen
00:11:53.99\00:11:56.95
when you get
married, but Paul quotes
00:11:56.96\00:11:59.98
this in a relation in a context
00:11:59.99\00:12:02.86
that there is no love,
00:12:02.87\00:12:04.55
there is no
emotional attachment,
00:12:04.56\00:12:06.01
there is no
emotional commitment.
00:12:06.02\00:12:07.32
There is no commitment
at all except financial.
00:12:07.33\00:12:10.43
Yet he says the two
shall become one flesh.
00:12:10.44\00:12:14.64
So you're saying that
there is a certain kind of bond
00:12:14.65\00:12:17.41
that the
physical act of intimacy
00:12:17.42\00:12:21.15
brings about whether
you're married or not.
00:12:21.16\00:12:22.92
That's right.
00:12:22.93\00:12:23.92
There--there is
laws that are placed
00:12:23.93\00:12:26.24
within our bodies
that I think sometimes
00:12:26.25\00:12:28.69
we do disservice to ourselves
by not knowing these things.
00:12:28.70\00:12:32.49
And this journey
again like I told you
00:12:32.50\00:12:33.80
it wasn't just me looking
for answers regarding sexuality.
00:12:33.81\00:12:36.98
I was a massage
therapist as well for many years
00:12:36.99\00:12:38.83
and when we were in Loma Linda
00:12:38.84\00:12:40.71
Dr. Hershey who teaches
neuroanatomy at university
00:12:40.72\00:12:44.34
He gave us a brief, very brief
00:12:44.35\00:12:46.15
short lecture on
the nervous system
00:12:46.16\00:12:49.22
but some of the things
he said they were beginning
00:12:49.23\00:12:51.21
to put the
pieces together for me
00:12:51.22\00:12:52.70
and then I read some more books
00:12:52.71\00:12:53.76
and then I went
into nursing school
00:12:53.77\00:12:55.68
the whole picture
just came together for me.
00:12:55.69\00:12:58.13
We have five channels through
00:12:58.14\00:13:00.95
which our brain gets feedback
00:13:00.96\00:13:03.39
or information from
the outside world. Wow.
00:13:03.40\00:13:05.94
We have our sight,
our smell, our taste,
00:13:05.95\00:13:08.71
our touch, and
our hearing. Right.
00:13:08.72\00:13:11.05
I'm gonna ask you guys
and the viewers at home,
00:13:11.06\00:13:13.43
they can also, you know,
00:13:13.44\00:13:14.75
have their wheel
spinning with this question.
00:13:14.76\00:13:17.12
Think of an activity
00:13:17.13\00:13:19.02
in which you're gonna use
all five of those channel,
00:13:19.03\00:13:23.03
all five of those
highways into our brain,
00:13:23.04\00:13:27.87
at full blast, full
strength, full throttle.
00:13:27.88\00:13:33.37
Can you guys
think of one activity
00:13:33.38\00:13:36.29
that a human
being could experience
00:13:36.30\00:13:38.58
that would engage all five
at the same time full power?
00:13:38.59\00:13:44.31
Skydiving. That's the
only one I go through.
00:13:44.32\00:13:47.80
How is that? How--
00:13:47.81\00:13:49.31
I guess you tasting the air.
00:13:49.32\00:13:50.50
Tasting the air. Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:50.51\00:13:53.48
And what are you touching there?
00:13:53.49\00:13:55.13
Touching the wind. No.
00:13:55.14\00:13:57.83
Skydiving, it
will stimulate some,
00:13:57.84\00:13:59.84
you know, rollercoaster,
00:13:59.85\00:14:00.95
you know-- but
I'm asking all five.
00:14:00.96\00:14:03.37
All five. There's only one.
00:14:03.38\00:14:06.14
Intimacy. Sexual intimacy.
00:14:06.15\00:14:08.75
What is the
largest organ in the body?
00:14:08.76\00:14:10.59
It's the skin.
00:14:12.58\00:14:14.78
And when a couple
experience sexual intimacy
00:14:14.79\00:14:17.74
they are using the
largest organ that they have,
00:14:17.75\00:14:20.31
the God has given us,
00:14:20.32\00:14:21.95
because there is
no clothing obviously.
00:14:21.96\00:14:24.66
And you have touch,
00:14:24.67\00:14:27.54
we have our own
hormonal sense, you know.
00:14:27.55\00:14:29.81
If they take your
socks and my socks
00:14:29.82\00:14:31.51
and they make a
bloodhound smell it
00:14:31.52\00:14:33.13
and we go
running into the woods.
00:14:33.14\00:14:34.38
Well, if it take only your socks
00:14:34.39\00:14:36.26
and smell your
socks, the dog will find you
00:14:36.27\00:14:38.92
because you have your own scent.
00:14:38.93\00:14:40.13
Actually I think
the dog will die.
00:14:40.14\00:14:41.45
But the point is this, we
all have our scent. Right.
00:14:45.29\00:14:48.50
In our society, in our
western society we bathe,
00:14:48.51\00:14:50.60
we have deodorant,
so we mask it. Sure.
00:14:50.61\00:14:52.43
But we can pick it up
when we're into intimate act.
00:14:52.44\00:14:55.30
Our pheromones are kicking
in our own special scent. Wow.
00:14:55.31\00:14:58.73
Our bodies pick it up.
We see each other naked.
00:14:58.74\00:15:02.05
We hear things during, you know,
00:15:02.06\00:15:04.09
the act that we
don't typically hear
00:15:04.10\00:15:05.69
on a everyday basis.
00:15:05.70\00:15:07.39
And obviously the
five senses like you said,
00:15:07.40\00:15:11.01
Dan, are full engaged
00:15:11.02\00:15:12.86
and it creates a
mark in the brain.
00:15:12.87\00:15:17.24
Our brains are not static.
00:15:17.25\00:15:18.37
back years ago,
medicine you see think
00:15:18.38\00:15:20.08
that our brain was static.
00:15:20.09\00:15:21.50
Now they know better.
00:15:21.51\00:15:22.50
They know that our
brains even right now
00:15:22.51\00:15:24.70
on a day to day basic
structurally physically
00:15:24.71\00:15:27.63
the structure of the
brain is continually changing,
00:15:27.64\00:15:30.68
is continually developing.
00:15:30.69\00:15:32.24
Not just from experiences
but even thought processes.
00:15:32.25\00:15:34.83
Our thoughts can
physically change
00:15:34.84\00:15:37.23
the structure of our brain.
00:15:37.24\00:15:39.30
And so if I
partake of an activity
00:15:39.31\00:15:41.91
with an
individual that will engage
00:15:41.92\00:15:45.43
all five senses at the
same time full throttle,
00:15:45.44\00:15:49.84
will that leave
a mark in my mind?
00:15:49.85\00:15:52.80
So for me personally
that is how I reconcile
00:15:52.81\00:15:55.20
the passage of that the
two shall become one flesh.
00:15:55.21\00:15:58.60
Because I'm married, my
wife is in Barium Springs
00:15:58.61\00:16:01.15
but we are one flesh here.
00:16:01.16\00:16:03.88
Everything that
she is and like I said
00:16:03.89\00:16:06.29
this is looking
at it holistically
00:16:06.30\00:16:08.05
not just only physical.
00:16:08.06\00:16:09.76
The way God wants this one flesh
00:16:09.77\00:16:11.62
to take place is
complete that though
00:16:11.63\00:16:14.24
we're a part we're still one.
00:16:14.25\00:16:17.29
When a person would
engage in the act or sexual--
00:16:17.30\00:16:21.04
sexual act with a prostitute,
00:16:21.05\00:16:23.08
everything about the
prostitute will become here
00:16:23.09\00:16:26.19
and for the person as well.
00:16:26.20\00:16:28.01
I don't know if you guys
are following. Just like fusion.
00:16:28.02\00:16:29.78
Yes, that's a good
word. Emotional fusion.
00:16:29.79\00:16:32.37
Emotional, physical, spiritual--
00:16:32.38\00:16:34.52
See we can't separate,
00:16:34.53\00:16:37.36
we can't separate the
physical from the other ones.
00:16:37.37\00:16:39.61
Once we engage this
one we'll engage them all
00:16:39.62\00:16:41.77
because all are
part of who we are.
00:16:41.78\00:16:43.83
So this is true then it
gets a little bit complex
00:16:43.84\00:16:47.63
if one has more--
several partners. Correct.
00:16:47.64\00:16:52.27
That they're
engaging in sexual intimacy
00:16:52.28\00:16:54.47
because they be-- is
it possible to become
00:16:54.48\00:16:56.15
one flesh with
more than one person?
00:16:56.16\00:16:58.77
What this is a law
that God put in us.
00:16:58.78\00:17:02.18
And it was a blessing of a law,
00:17:02.19\00:17:04.14
physiological law that
when a man would marry a woman
00:17:04.15\00:17:08.17
that bond would take
place and would last how long.
00:17:08.18\00:17:11.01
In Genesis Chapter
2 there was no death.
00:17:11.02\00:17:13.05
It was supposed
to last for eternity.
00:17:13.06\00:17:16.13
Sin entered the world
but that law stayed with us.
00:17:16.14\00:17:20.17
So for me to partake
of multiple partners,
00:17:20.18\00:17:24.02
I like to use this
illustration of Scotch tape
00:17:24.03\00:17:26.57
and I've done it in
churches and other venues
00:17:26.58\00:17:29.17
where I'll ask for one young man
00:17:29.18\00:17:31.06
and five young ladies.
00:17:31.07\00:17:32.27
Because usually the
guys are the ones that,
00:17:32.28\00:17:34.04
you know, the
stereotype is the guys
00:17:34.05\00:17:35.14
the more promiscuous ones.
00:17:35.15\00:17:37.16
And I will use the
tape as the guy's brain,
00:17:37.17\00:17:40.13
it's a form of parable
00:17:40.14\00:17:41.47
and I would stick it
to the ladies sweaters
00:17:41.48\00:17:43.63
and I will say they become
one flesh and peel it off.
00:17:43.64\00:17:46.50
And then go to the next lady
00:17:46.51\00:17:48.10
and they become one
flesh and peel it off
00:17:48.11\00:17:50.11
and I will go through all five
00:17:50.12\00:17:51.21
and then I would ask the people
00:17:51.22\00:17:52.65
what has happened
to the Scotch tape?
00:17:52.66\00:17:55.49
What has happened to
its ability to stick?
00:17:55.50\00:17:58.25
You have something interesting,
00:18:00.25\00:18:01.33
you've the sexual
revolution in this country
00:18:01.34\00:18:03.04
during the 60's and 70's
00:18:03.05\00:18:04.79
and then you have
divorce sky rocketing.
00:18:04.80\00:18:07.97
Promiscuity leads to an
inability to commit. Wow.
00:18:07.98\00:18:13.52
So for me just opening up
a world of cause an affect
00:18:13.53\00:18:16.31
and I'm not saying that
this is the all and all.
00:18:16.32\00:18:18.34
But I'm
searching that this plays
00:18:18.35\00:18:20.27
a factor into what
we've seen as a society
00:18:20.28\00:18:22.28
that not more than
half marriages are failing.
00:18:22.29\00:18:25.18
And how many of those
marriages are entering into it,
00:18:25.19\00:18:27.54
in that relationship
with a clean piece of tape.
00:18:27.55\00:18:30.87
Now, you know, you
kind of ensured ourselves
00:18:30.88\00:18:35.17
that what that does for someone
00:18:35.18\00:18:36.47
who has
multiple sexual partners.
00:18:36.48\00:18:39.16
But what about
somebody who isn't,
00:18:39.17\00:18:42.06
you know, active
with other people but,
00:18:42.07\00:18:43.62
you know, may be--
00:18:43.63\00:18:44.98
They're self-pleasuring?
Self-pleasuring,
00:18:45.02\00:18:46.53
yeah, that we talked about.
00:18:46.54\00:18:47.87
Well this is where I think
00:18:47.88\00:18:49.63
we were talking about
early the medical data,
00:18:49.64\00:18:53.14
the studies done
are not gonna congruent,
00:18:53.15\00:18:55.59
you know, some does show
something others that don't,
00:18:55.60\00:18:58.87
but the Bible-- if
we take these concepts
00:18:58.88\00:19:00.62
that we've already looked at
00:19:00.63\00:19:02.35
and they are physiologically
real, it has happen.
00:19:02.36\00:19:07.08
If you apply it to
the act of self-pleasuring
00:19:07.09\00:19:10.11
I would look at it like--
00:19:10.12\00:19:11.88
are you guys
familiar with Pavlov? No.
00:19:11.89\00:19:15.14
Pavlov was a Russian
physiologist and also--
00:19:15.15\00:19:20.82
he wanted to study
psychology as well.
00:19:20.83\00:19:24.20
And by accident he was studying
00:19:24.21\00:19:27.12
the salivary glands of dogs.
00:19:27.13\00:19:29.40
And he noticed that his
assistance would come in
00:19:29.41\00:19:32.15
and in the routine
would rattle the cage
00:19:32.16\00:19:34.78
obviously to bring
the food to the dogs.
00:19:34.79\00:19:38.30
But there were times
that they'll not bring food
00:19:38.31\00:19:39.85
they'll simply
come observe the dog.
00:19:39.86\00:19:42.09
But in the
reputation of bringing,
00:19:42.10\00:19:43.88
opening the gate bringing food,
00:19:43.89\00:19:45.41
opening the gate bringing food,
00:19:45.42\00:19:47.39
the dogs associated the rattling
00:19:47.40\00:19:48.89
of the cage with the food.
00:19:48.90\00:19:50.09
So when they-- the assistants
00:19:50.10\00:19:51.42
who come just rattling the cage
00:19:51.43\00:19:53.00
the dogs would salivate.
00:19:53.01\00:19:54.83
And that became
Pavlov's classical condition
00:19:54.84\00:19:57.24
where you're
responding to a stimulus
00:19:57.25\00:20:00.70
that is not related to
food as if it was food.
00:20:00.71\00:20:05.40
Self
pleasuring, Dr. Jorge Meyers
00:20:05.41\00:20:08.42
and his wife Nibia
did a seminar on marriage.
00:20:08.43\00:20:11.25
They dealt with
this topic in Columbus,
00:20:11.26\00:20:12.67
Ohio several years ago.
00:20:12.68\00:20:14.98
And they spoke
about-- not entirely
00:20:14.99\00:20:16.89
what I'm talking about
00:20:16.90\00:20:18.52
but they gave me the
foundation to understand
00:20:18.53\00:20:20.61
how when you're going
to self pleasure yourself,
00:20:20.62\00:20:24.20
you condition
yourself to respond
00:20:24.21\00:20:26.70
sexually to
something that is not sex.
00:20:26.71\00:20:30.50
Self stimulation, pornography--
00:20:30.51\00:20:34.35
four months
ago, five months ago,
00:20:34.36\00:20:35.69
I stumbled upon a article
from the Saturday evening
00:20:35.70\00:20:39.11
post out of all places.
00:20:39.12\00:20:40.49
I know it's not a
medical authority to article
00:20:40.50\00:20:43.73
but we had a gentleman that
was just secular individual.
00:20:43.74\00:20:47.85
The article was I no longer
crave my girlfriend sexually.
00:20:47.86\00:20:53.34
And the guy spoke
about how he spooked himself
00:20:53.35\00:20:55.88
because he began
as he called it self
00:20:55.89\00:20:57.50
overdosing with
pornography to the point
00:20:57.51\00:21:00.44
where he no longer
desired the real. Wow.
00:21:00.45\00:21:03.89
He was more responsive
to the fake, to the false.
00:21:03.90\00:21:08.27
That's like me
saying I'm so hungry
00:21:08.28\00:21:11.62
but I want these that
are made of rubber and wax,
00:21:11.63\00:21:14.75
sorry viewers, they
thought it's for real.
00:21:14.76\00:21:18.06
I'm craving these
types of apples, you know,
00:21:18.07\00:21:20.81
that have no
nutritional value for me. Right.
00:21:20.82\00:21:24.42
That'll be crazy
for me to say that.
00:21:24.43\00:21:26.26
Well, it's just as
crazy for me to say
00:21:26.27\00:21:28.26
I desire more something in print
00:21:28.27\00:21:30.98
or something on a screen
than the real thing. Wow.
00:21:30.99\00:21:35.01
And that is a
conditioning that takes places.
00:21:35.02\00:21:36.68
Obviously the
dogs did not salivate
00:21:36.69\00:21:37.99
the first time around
but they got to that point.
00:21:38.00\00:21:41.66
Now Ariel, is--
is the result of--
00:21:41.67\00:21:46.46
as this article
you read the overdosing
00:21:46.47\00:21:48.88
of pornography is it-- does it
00:21:48.89\00:21:51.41
only have sexual
negative consequences
00:21:51.42\00:21:56.05
or is it because
you said that, you know,
00:21:56.06\00:21:58.31
as a whole we're
spiritual, we're emotional,
00:21:58.32\00:22:00.26
you know, it's a whole being.
00:22:00.27\00:22:02.92
Does pornography
affect not only the sexual
00:22:02.93\00:22:05.27
but does it affect the
other areas in our life?
00:22:05.28\00:22:07.29
You cannot touch one
without touching the others.
00:22:07.30\00:22:09.58
You remember the Bible says
00:22:09.59\00:22:10.82
we're created in
whose image? God's image.
00:22:10.83\00:22:13.18
And when God created
us He said let us in our.
00:22:13.19\00:22:17.28
God is social and because
he has made us in His image
00:22:17.29\00:22:20.31
we're all so social.
00:22:20.32\00:22:21.54
We craved human contact. Right.
00:22:21.55\00:22:24.06
Especially at the
level of intimate relation.
00:22:24.07\00:22:27.41
And for me in my own
personal conditions pornography
00:22:27.42\00:22:30.60
and self pleasuring leads you,
00:22:30.61\00:22:33.59
conditions you to
withdraw from something
00:22:33.60\00:22:36.08
that will
reflect God's character
00:22:36.09\00:22:37.81
but you experiencing something
00:22:37.82\00:22:39.98
that is extremely
intimate with your self.
00:22:39.99\00:22:43.42
And you prefer this isolating,
self pleasuring activity
00:22:43.43\00:22:48.47
rather than the
social interaction
00:22:48.48\00:22:50.74
that God designed us to have,
00:22:50.75\00:22:52.58
so for me it's a
direct attack on destroying
00:22:52.59\00:22:55.98
the restoration of God's image
00:22:55.99\00:22:57.37
in human being's heart and mind
00:22:57.38\00:22:59.26
So it doesn't just
affect your sexual life,
00:22:59.27\00:23:02.30
it affects your
social life-- Spiritual life.
00:23:02.31\00:23:04.18
Your mental life
and your spiritual life.
00:23:04.19\00:23:05.88
There is-- I don't think--
00:23:05.89\00:23:07.27
speaking it from a
Christian world view
00:23:07.28\00:23:08.96
I don't think
that there is any doubt
00:23:08.97\00:23:10.84
that for someone
that is practicing
00:23:10.85\00:23:13.36
the act of watching pornography
00:23:13.37\00:23:16.18
and self
pleasuring that they will find
00:23:16.19\00:23:18.73
there spiritual life
thriving simultaneously,
00:23:18.74\00:23:22.12
it cannot happen.
00:23:22.13\00:23:23.53
Now let's get practical.
00:23:23.54\00:23:24.95
There is a maybe a
viewer watching this program
00:23:24.96\00:23:27.96
recognizing
that they need help--
00:23:27.97\00:23:30.80
in the last few
minutes that we have--
00:23:30.81\00:23:33.43
what as a pastor, what counsel,
00:23:33.44\00:23:36.52
what encouraging word can
you give them for number one,
00:23:36.53\00:23:40.83
to inspire them with the
fact that victory is possible.
00:23:40.84\00:23:44.88
And number two
maybe what are one
00:23:44.89\00:23:46.74
or two or three steps
00:23:46.75\00:23:47.96
that they can undergo
to actually experience
00:23:47.97\00:23:50.74
transformation
final and total victory.
00:23:50.75\00:23:52.82
If someone feels convicted
00:23:52.83\00:23:54.09
and they realize is
there a reasonable intelligent
00:23:54.10\00:23:56.82
reason why I should not
be participating in this,
00:23:56.83\00:23:59.42
they can
recognize that as evidence
00:23:59.43\00:24:00.92
that the deceptions of Satan
00:24:00.93\00:24:03.32
are being
lifted from their eyes.
00:24:03.33\00:24:04.50
They need to thank God
that they are seeing us.
00:24:04.51\00:24:07.04
Number two is they
need to seek accountability.
00:24:07.05\00:24:09.87
Pornography isolates,
isolates their spouse,
00:24:09.88\00:24:13.36
it isolates the
pastoring in that context.
00:24:13.37\00:24:14.92
It isolates the wife or
the girlfriend with secrecy.
00:24:14.93\00:24:18.72
So you need to confront
that by the opposite end
00:24:18.73\00:24:20.83
and you need to find
someone that is trust worthy,
00:24:20.84\00:24:23.41
that is spiritual
and open up to them
00:24:23.42\00:24:25.83
and say listen this is something
00:24:25.84\00:24:26.98
that I'm struggling with.
00:24:26.99\00:24:28.04
I don't want it
in my life anymore.
00:24:28.05\00:24:29.95
I need someone to
be accountable to.
00:24:29.96\00:24:32.04
I need you to ask
me the hard questions
00:24:32.05\00:24:34.08
on a day to day basis.
00:24:34.09\00:24:35.55
You need to find
someone that will hold you
00:24:35.56\00:24:37.02
accountable to your
decision to walk away from this.
00:24:37.03\00:24:40.36
Something that-- that
I think helps as well.
00:24:40.37\00:24:43.49
I learned this from
alcoholic Anonymous.
00:24:43.50\00:24:46.56
I as a nursing
student had to attend
00:24:46.57\00:24:48.32
and observe and write a people.
00:24:48.33\00:24:50.26
They would say this phrase.
00:24:50.27\00:24:52.06
I stay sober by
keeping other's sober.
00:24:52.07\00:24:54.91
The moment I stop
helping other alcoholics
00:24:54.92\00:24:57.25
stay sober I'll drink.
00:24:57.26\00:24:59.45
So as someone that
is struggling with sin
00:24:59.46\00:25:01.90
you can help other individuals
00:25:01.91\00:25:03.62
it doesn't have to
be the same struggle
00:25:03.63\00:25:05.77
but you can just
lead in people to Christ.
00:25:05.78\00:25:08.44
When you are working
for the salvation of others
00:25:08.45\00:25:10.19
guess whose salvation you
are working for by default.
00:25:10.20\00:25:13.00
Your own. Right.
00:25:13.01\00:25:14.32
So if--because of lack of time,
00:25:14.33\00:25:16.74
thus will be
the briefest answers
00:25:16.75\00:25:18.28
that I could provide for
you to answer those questions.
00:25:18.29\00:25:20.84
Are there any materials
maybe that you recommend viewers
00:25:20.85\00:25:24.31
that this maybe
interested in exploring
00:25:24.32\00:25:26.03
this a little bit more.
00:25:26.04\00:25:27.37
Any particular
place in scripture,
00:25:27.38\00:25:29.64
maybe particular resource
00:25:29.65\00:25:32.43
that you recommend
that would benefit--
00:25:32.44\00:25:33.61
It's not one verse but one verse
00:25:33.62\00:25:35.81
I think will
provide a tool. Okay.
00:25:35.82\00:25:38.24
Psalm 119, I
think provides the tool
00:25:38.25\00:25:43.18
but it's not the
all in all. Sure.
00:25:43.19\00:25:45.10
Psalm 119, verse 11 says,
00:25:45.11\00:25:47.49
"Your word I have
hidden in my heart,
00:25:47.50\00:25:50.26
that I might not
sin against you."
00:25:50.27\00:25:52.67
So the discipline
of memorizing scripture
00:25:52.68\00:25:55.09
I think can be a powerful
counter acting intentional act
00:25:55.10\00:25:59.01
that can help
purify my thought process
00:25:59.02\00:26:01.36
because you expose
yourself to these things.
00:26:01.37\00:26:03.94
You've engrained it
through the practice.
00:26:03.95\00:26:06.08
There's an
opposite act that you can do
00:26:06.09\00:26:07.73
which is
intentionally place Gods word
00:26:07.74\00:26:10.58
into your mind,
but it's not magic.
00:26:10.59\00:26:12.56
There is faith involved
00:26:12.57\00:26:14.14
and I think there is
also the accountability
00:26:14.15\00:26:15.64
that also needs to
be coupled with this.
00:26:15.65\00:26:17.86
And it seems from text
00:26:17.87\00:26:18.96
that really the
root is the mind. Yes.
00:26:18.97\00:26:21.40
Sometimes I think we are tempted
00:26:21.41\00:26:23.08
to just cut the fruits
00:26:23.09\00:26:25.63
but the root is really
the issue. That's right.
00:26:25.64\00:26:27.43
And the mind and of course
00:26:27.44\00:26:28.73
we told the
thoughts mixed with feelings,
00:26:28.74\00:26:32.20
cultivate habits,
and finally habits
00:26:32.21\00:26:34.59
make up your moral characters,
00:26:34.60\00:26:35.81
so I think it's a lot about
what you put into your minds.
00:26:35.82\00:26:39.20
And I think if young people
00:26:39.21\00:26:40.56
are struggling with this
maybe they need to examine
00:26:40.57\00:26:45.38
what kind of material
you're putting into the mind,
00:26:45.39\00:26:47.85
what kind of content
you're putting into mind
00:26:47.86\00:26:49.30
because that may
be a little bit more
00:26:49.31\00:26:51.48
detrimental to the word of God.
00:26:51.49\00:26:53.61
Ariel, in the last few seconds
00:26:53.62\00:26:55.15
that we have is
there a final word
00:26:55.16\00:26:57.02
or final message that you'd
like to give to a young person
00:26:57.03\00:26:59.75
who is struggling with this.
00:26:59.76\00:27:00.83
I would actually like to appeal
00:27:00.84\00:27:01.86
to the parents
of the young person.
00:27:01.87\00:27:03.74
I think parents
need to take ownership
00:27:03.75\00:27:05.79
and stop asking,
expecting pastor or churches
00:27:05.80\00:27:08.29
or schools to do the work
00:27:08.30\00:27:09.68
that they should be
doing in protecting.
00:27:09.69\00:27:11.99
We did speak about, you know,
ignorance versus innocence,
00:27:12.00\00:27:14.95
but there is also
proactive measures
00:27:14.96\00:27:16.44
that parents need to be aware
00:27:16.45\00:27:17.78
that technology in two buttons
00:27:17.79\00:27:20.79
any kid can be
connected with these things.
00:27:20.80\00:27:22.38
So parents need to
educated themselves
00:27:22.39\00:27:24.41
and be
intentional in their homes
00:27:24.42\00:27:26.11
to provide a sanctuary of
purity for their children.
00:27:26.12\00:27:28.75
Wow, fascinating.
00:27:28.76\00:27:29.77
Ariel, I cannot tell you
00:27:29.78\00:27:31.59
how insightful this
Bible study has been.
00:27:31.60\00:27:33.88
For me as well, and this is
just tip of just the iceberg,
00:27:33.89\00:27:36.41
this is just
scratching the surface.
00:27:36.42\00:27:37.78
There is a lot more. Awesome.
00:27:37.79\00:27:38.87
For those of you
that have been joining us
00:27:38.88\00:27:40.35
in our program today
00:27:40.36\00:27:41.38
we want to thank
you for tuning in.
00:27:41.39\00:27:42.95
We've been really blessed
00:27:42.96\00:27:44.54
to have this
subject matter discussed
00:27:44.55\00:27:47.58
and we just want
to let everybody know
00:27:47.59\00:27:49.04
that there is
hope, there is healing,
00:27:49.05\00:27:52.68
there is restoration
and there are answers.
00:27:52.69\00:27:55.05
We want to
encourage you to continue
00:27:55.06\00:27:56.94
in the word of God.
00:27:56.95\00:27:58.01
God bless you till next time.
00:27:58.02\00:27:59.80