Hello, I'm Jay
Rosario, and welcome to Engage.
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Joining me is my
good friend Dan McGrath
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who is our co-host.
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Dan, who are you, and
what you are doing here?
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I'm Daniel
McGrath, I'm new pastor
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up in the Upper
Peninsula of Michigan,
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just very happy to be here
and joining the show today.
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This series is a
very, very special series,
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because we're gonna be looking
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at some highly relevant subjects
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dealing with young adults
in their Christian experience.
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And we're always gonna be
looking at the word of God,
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the Bible to see
what the Bible says
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regarding these things.
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Now Dan, what particular
subject we're gonna be
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discussing in the segment.
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Yeah, today we're talking
about the issue of sexuality
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and you know in
our culture today
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its very misunderstood subject.
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Some times it's
uncomfortable for us,
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for us to even talk about.
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And you know,
probably we're gonna be
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little awkward when we hear.
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But the Bible has a
lot to say about the issue,
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so this is what we're
gonna talk about today.
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And the reason why it's awkward,
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we decided to invite a
good friend of ours name,
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Ariel Roldan, who
actually used to be my teacher
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at the mission
college of evangelism.
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How you're doing. Great.
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Good to see, you're here
with us. Thank you, thank you.
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Now Ariel, we know you,
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but our audience may
not know who you are.
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Who are you,
Where do you come from?
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Tell us little
bit about yourself.
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I'm originally from Argentina,
but I'm U.S. citizen now.
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Oh, congratulations.
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I became U.S citizen last year.
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I'm been married
now for five years
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this June and we just have our
eight month old baby at home.
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Oh, nice. That I'm
missing a lot, so--
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What are their names?
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Daline is my wife's name
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and Jienna is
my daughter's name.
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So you are a husband
and you are a father. Yes.
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So if there is
anybody that is well versed
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in the subject of
sexuality-- Is Jesus.
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Is Jesus and it's also,
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Ariel Roldan,
because obviously--
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I'm growing brethren.
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You are a family
man, we really have--
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My little girl is
teaching me stuff.
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Yeah, we're really happy
that you are here with us.
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Now, Ariel, tell us a
little bit about sexuality.
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Why is it that when
even-- maybe not even jumping
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into the discussion of sexuality
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maybe even just mentioning
sexuality or mentioning sex.
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There is this
kind of discomfort,
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is kind of tabooish.
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Where did this feeling come from
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and why is it that
there is so much reservations
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about talking about sexuality.
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Well people sometimes
has primitive cultures
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and things like that,
but I travel quite a bit
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not as much as you.
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But I have seen this is a
cross cultural thing. Yeah.
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Pretty much every
culture has this unawkwardness
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when it comes to sexuality.
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From a Christian perspective,
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I think the church is
at fault to a great degree
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as to why many people
think that you shouldn't talk
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about sex, you
shouldn't discuss about sex.
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In a nutshell during the second,
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third, fourth century,
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Christianity began to
shut its Jewish routes
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and adapt more and more
of the Greek world for you,
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Greek philosophy.
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And in essence I mean
I'm distilling it down
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to very, very,
very basic concept.
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The Greeks would see
that the spiritual things,
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the intangible visible things
that are spiritual are good.
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The material stuff
including our bodies are bad.
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We have good
spirit inside a bad shell
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which is the body and of course
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you have sex with the body.
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So when the Christian
church begin to embrace
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all of these philosophical
ideas into the church.
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It began to see sex
in a negative light,
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so much so that for
people that really wanted
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to get close to
God, really want to have
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an intimate
relationship with God,
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they would take a certain vow.
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You want to guess or what,
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what kind of vow
they have to take.
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There's some being so.
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Salvacy. Yeah.
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Because they saw a sex has
hindering to nearness to God.
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So that sex had
a bad connotation.
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Yeah. Because it's physical.
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Yeah, but the Bible
is completely opposite.
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The Bible
actually says that Enoch,
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had a kid and
after he has a kid,
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after obviously, we can't
have kid without having sex.
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After he has child
he walked with God.
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So there was-- the
Bible never intimated,
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never hinted at if you
want be really close with God,
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don't have sex,
don't have families.
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Actually it was
totally opposite,
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if you really want to
understand God's heart
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have a child.
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Now wait a second
Ariel, wait a second,
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because you entered
there is some pretty
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revolutionary things.
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Usually speaking
when a young adult
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or young person
or maybe any person
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of any age of any
particular culture.
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Usually when we
think of sexuality
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and we think of the
Bible, usually we don't put
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those two things together.
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We don't really see how
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there is a
relationship between the two.
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Usually there is a kind of
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this perspective
that the Bible is asexual.
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But in your explanation
you mentioned the Bible,
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the Bible this, the Bible that.
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Does the Bible
actually talk about sexuality?
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Yes, and there
is two transitions
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not only is Bible not asexual,
is also not anti sexual. Okay.
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Because it does talk about
it, but it's not against sex.
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Actually in the book
the first Book of the Bible
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into 31st Chapter of
the Bible, you have sex.
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And not many people realize it
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because the Bible doesn't
actually have the word sex.
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This is Genesis Chapter 1. Yep.
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Verse 27 and 28.
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And we encourage our viewers
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to make sure they
have their Bibles,
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so they can
follow along with us.
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Yes, I'm reading
from the New King James,
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you can read
from any translation
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that is easy for
you to understand.
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Genesis 1:27 and 28 reads"
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So God created
men and that's generic
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that's like
saying humanity, right.
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Our God created
humanity in his own image
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and the image of
God he created humans
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males and females.
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So the first way that
The Bible addresses sexuality
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is not as a verb,
because most of us think
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as sex as something
we do-- Do in action.
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But the Bible
actually presents sex
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as something we are and
is part of our humanity.
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Or the identity. Yes.
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And it's not
something that is separate off
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I mean sexuality
embraces everything
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from your anatomy
to your neurotomy,
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to your emotions,
the way God created us
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is there is a
distinct, there's obviously
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there is no superior inferior,
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but there is a
distinct difference
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between a man and a woman.
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And that those differences
are also manifested sexually.
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And it is not just
like we are all cookie cut,
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you know, all of us are men,
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all of us are women,
even within masculinity
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you have diversity and
you have your own personality,
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but your
personality is intimately tied
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with your sexuality. Wow.
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So it seems like from
hearing your explanation,
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it seems like
sexuality is a lot more profound
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than we usually think.
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It's a lot more
broad profound deep,
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I mean it's we don't
typically think of sex
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outside of the
bedroom, or other rooms
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where you have sex. Right.
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But we're gonna be
generic just the bedroom. Right.
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We don't think
about sex as something
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that defies me in the society.
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As a father that is,
that is a sexual role
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as a mother has a sexual role.
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A father can never be a mother.
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Those are separate sexual roles
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and so sexuality embraces
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every aspect of life as humans.
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So then sexuality is an
integral part of existence.
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Not only because of procreation
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but even because of
the gender distinctions
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and their roles
in the upbringing
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of the next
generations what you are saying.
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Yes. Wow, fascinating.
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There's more actually,
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the very next verse, verse 28.
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This where I was
telling the audience
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and you guys that
the Bible mentions sex
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for the first
time it's in verse-28
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and it's hidden and I'm gonna
see if you guys can pick up
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which word in this
verse actually refers to sex.
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Verse-28 says
"Then God blessed them
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and said to them, "Be
fruitful and multiply,
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fill the earth and
subdue it and have dominion
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over the fish of the
sea, over the birds of the air
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and over every living
thing that moves on the earth."
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Where did you guys
see sex? Be fruitful.
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Yeah, And multiply.
Be fruitful and multiply.
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God was not talking
about trigonometry or calculus,
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He was talking about, amen, sex.
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And its
interesting to me that he says
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to uses the word
multiply, you know,
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because you
have addition 1+1+2+3
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with multiplication is you
go up a lot faster in number.
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Right, exponentially different.
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Exponentially, so
He's not even saying
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you should be on a diet.
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You know, sex is not something
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to be like
nibbling at, enjoy it.
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I have designed sex
to be the combination
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of the expression
of my image in you
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and when God
makes men in verse-27
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He uses this word
right before every,
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before He's gonna
do something, He says
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let us make men in our image.
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Let us make men.
God by nature is social.
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Wait a second, so
you're saying that
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I mean in our culture we tend to
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like hide these
things, you know.
00:08:59.24\00:09:01.12
Sex is something that we
do behind closed doors. Yeah.
00:09:01.13\00:09:03.57
If it happens
like it's hush-hush,
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you know, don't tell anybody.
00:09:06.38\00:09:08.56
But what you're saying is like,
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you know, enjoy it,
multiply, have added.
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This is like, this is
like different than what,
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you know, we heard
before with the church.
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Yeah, and like I
said, is the church to fault
00:09:18.89\00:09:21.22
to a great degree
to the great ignorance
00:09:21.23\00:09:22.70
and may be misunderstanding.
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May be sometimes ignorance
is better than misunderstanding.
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Right, right.
00:09:26.66\00:09:27.84
But when I was
Bible working in Ohio,
00:09:27.85\00:09:30.42
I'll have these young kid's
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ask me
question's about sexuality.
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And I would begin to
share the positiveness of it
00:09:33.97\00:09:36.40
and that actually
you would want to include
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God in the equation.
00:09:38.27\00:09:40.50
It was almost
offensive for them to think that
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in my nuptial bed,
00:09:43.42\00:09:45.75
I would pray before having sex.
00:09:45.76\00:09:47.97
You know, it's like
Lord take the angels
00:09:47.98\00:09:49.68
out of this room,
because we are going to be naked
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as if God did not know
that part of us. Right.
00:09:52.22\00:09:55.47
And what the Bible
does is, it brings us back
00:09:55.48\00:09:57.96
to the originality
the origins of who we are
00:09:57.97\00:10:02.05
and saying sex that was
not something that God did
00:10:02.06\00:10:05.20
and then was like I'm
embarrassed of doing that
00:10:05.21\00:10:07.49
and because we are
created in His image,
00:10:07.50\00:10:09.66
we should not be embarrassed
or ashamed of our sexuality.
00:10:09.67\00:10:13.13
Now Ariel, do you think
00:10:13.14\00:10:15.20
because you
mentioned the church,
00:10:15.21\00:10:16.87
I'm thinking even a
little deeper. okay.
00:10:16.88\00:10:19.14
Do you think
not only the church,
00:10:19.15\00:10:21.17
but do you think
the home has been maybe
00:10:21.18\00:10:24.41
one of the reasons
why sexuality is something
00:10:24.42\00:10:27.21
like is like a taboo
or something like oooh.
00:10:27.22\00:10:30.36
it almost
causes people to blush.
00:10:30.37\00:10:33.92
Your parents
say if you like sex.
00:10:33.93\00:10:35.19
You know, my
parents-- well my parents,
00:10:35.20\00:10:37.59
because I grew up
with a single mother.
00:10:37.60\00:10:38.64
My mother was actually
very, very open talking to us
00:10:38.65\00:10:42.48
about sexuality which
is a good thing of course,
00:10:42.49\00:10:45.08
but it lack the
biblical conviction,
00:10:45.09\00:10:48.21
because she didn't grow up
in a Christian home though.
00:10:48.22\00:10:50.04
This is interesting Daniel
let me ask you this question,
00:10:50.05\00:10:51.45
I hope its not too personal,
was she a Christian. No.
00:10:51.46\00:10:54.14
See for me this is
almost like a parent
00:10:54.15\00:10:56.01
that I'm realizing
that the more I interact
00:10:56.02\00:10:58.32
with people and
ask this question,
00:10:58.33\00:11:00.42
more Christian parents
are more likely to not talk
00:11:00.43\00:11:03.16
to their kids about sexuality,
00:11:03.17\00:11:05.23
where as more secular minded
00:11:05.24\00:11:07.37
or non spiritual minded parents
00:11:07.38\00:11:09.43
are more likely to
do it. Interesting.
00:11:09.44\00:11:10.87
It is an interesting
pattern that I'm seeing that
00:11:10.88\00:11:12.99
they know what
the world is like.
00:11:13.00\00:11:15.15
They've been there
and so they are realizing,
00:11:15.16\00:11:17.23
I don't want my
kid to be uninformed,
00:11:17.24\00:11:20.42
so I will give
them a heads up. Right.
00:11:20.43\00:11:22.12
And I think in Christianity
00:11:22.13\00:11:23.22
because we
don't go to the Bible,
00:11:23.23\00:11:25.10
we don't see these
principles clearly outlined.
00:11:25.11\00:11:27.89
And I would tell parents
00:11:27.90\00:11:29.01
when I have done these
seminars in other places
00:11:29.02\00:11:31.12
Genesis Chapter 2 will
never come after Chapter 3.
00:11:31.13\00:11:35.45
And the point is
they are still there.
00:11:35.46\00:11:36.86
What does it mean to our
viewers, what does it mean?
00:11:36.87\00:11:38.67
Genesis Chapter 2 is pre sin,
00:11:38.68\00:11:40.69
Genesis Chapter 3
is post sin. Okay.
00:11:40.70\00:11:43.32
God actually in
Genesis Chapter 2 verse 18
00:11:43.33\00:11:48.39
actually that's when
he got mates, verse 16.
00:11:48.40\00:11:54.63
And the Lord God
commanded the man, saying,
00:11:54.64\00:11:56.70
Of every tree of the
garden you may freely eat,
00:11:56.71\00:11:59.93
But of the tree of the knowledge
00:11:59.94\00:12:01.87
of good and evil,
00:12:01.88\00:12:03.15
you shall not eat of it,
for in the day that you eat it
00:12:03.16\00:12:05.75
what's gonna happen?
You shall surely die.
00:12:05.76\00:12:07.84
Is he given the information
about something that is good
00:12:07.85\00:12:10.05
or about something that is evil.
00:12:10.06\00:12:11.52
You're gonna
die if you eat this.
00:12:14.22\00:12:15.68
Is that information
about something that is good.
00:12:15.69\00:12:17.40
That doesn't sound too good.
00:12:17.41\00:12:18.38
This is not,
that is pretty evil.
00:12:18.39\00:12:20.78
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's
like the ultimate. Right.
00:12:20.79\00:12:22.53
So this is the principle, God
doesn't wait for Adam and Eve
00:12:22.54\00:12:25.67
to be in front of the tree
00:12:25.70\00:12:27.83
to then say or
for them to have eaten
00:12:27.84\00:12:30.24
and say oh i'm going to
tell you about that by the way.
00:12:30.25\00:12:32.23
Of the tree they ate already,
oh, I am so sorry. Okay.
00:12:32.24\00:12:35.03
God actually
gets ahead and says,
00:12:35.04\00:12:39.76
this is something
that's going to hurt you.
00:12:39.77\00:12:42.38
He gave them the knowledge.
00:12:42.39\00:12:44.07
Yes. Before they--
00:12:44.08\00:12:46.10
He prevented, He
wanted to prevent. Got it.
00:12:46.11\00:12:48.23
And parents don't understand
00:12:48.24\00:12:50.09
that God does
not hold this belief.
00:12:50.10\00:12:52.45
And I think this
is the subtle belief
00:12:52.46\00:12:53.91
that has crept into many
of our Christian parents,
00:12:53.92\00:12:56.13
they're well intentioned.
00:12:56.14\00:12:57.38
My parents have the
same philosophical view.
00:12:57.39\00:13:00.68
They equate
innocence with ignorance. Okay.
00:13:00.69\00:13:05.37
And they are not compatible.
00:13:05.38\00:13:07.38
Actually Genesis Chapter 2
and 3 would let us know that
00:13:07.39\00:13:10.69
had God kept
them ignorant of this.
00:13:10.70\00:13:12.89
It would have been his fault
and sin would have happened,
00:13:12.90\00:13:16.88
because God
never want them. Right.
00:13:16.89\00:13:18.90
So for parents to think that
00:13:18.91\00:13:20.67
in order to keep
their children innocence
00:13:20.68\00:13:22.68
innocent they need
to keep them ignorant.
00:13:22.69\00:13:25.25
They are not
following the Genesis 2 and 3
00:13:25.26\00:13:27.06
principle where you need
to get ahead of the world.
00:13:27.07\00:13:30.22
Let me ask you a
question in Genesis 2,
00:13:30.23\00:13:32.14
we see that God warned
them not to eat of the fruit.
00:13:32.15\00:13:35.14
But then in Chapter
3, Satan comes and says,
00:13:35.15\00:13:38.61
God knows that if you eat
this your eyes will be opened
00:13:38.62\00:13:41.32
and you will know
good and evil. Yes.
00:13:41.33\00:13:43.43
So what is the
difference of the knowledge
00:13:43.44\00:13:45.83
that they get
between the two chapters.
00:13:45.84\00:13:47.60
That is a very good
question and if you read that
00:13:47.61\00:13:49.53
in later on in Chapter 3
00:13:49.54\00:13:50.85
you see that even
God knows good and evil.
00:13:50.86\00:13:52.82
You can know
what is good and evil,
00:13:52.83\00:13:54.87
but always choose the good.
00:13:54.88\00:13:57.83
And you can know
they could had known that
00:13:57.84\00:14:00.15
this tree is evil and
choose not to partake of it.
00:14:00.16\00:14:03.20
So now the evil
objectively, not subjectively
00:14:03.21\00:14:07.16
in other words
not experientially.
00:14:07.17\00:14:08.68
That's right,
theologian over here.
00:14:08.69\00:14:11.51
Its been a while
since I've seen each of you.
00:14:11.52\00:14:13.22
I'm going well, I'm actually
Brother-- I am impressed.
00:14:13.23\00:14:15.10
So Ariel, you are
talking about this
00:14:15.11\00:14:17.67
and you
mentioned, we got to reading
00:14:17.68\00:14:20.51
and you mentioned all
these things you know.
00:14:20.52\00:14:22.14
Do you think that the
whole subject of pleasure
00:14:22.15\00:14:29.10
may have some thing to,
may have something to do with
00:14:29.11\00:14:33.23
the fact that
maybe young people feel
00:14:33.24\00:14:36.36
like sexuality is something
that they can't openly speak
00:14:36.37\00:14:39.72
to their parents,
because you mentioned the church
00:14:39.73\00:14:42.63
and we mentioned the
home, and we're just kind of
00:14:42.64\00:14:43.81
getting to the
root of the issue.
00:14:43.82\00:14:44.88
But it seems as if young people,
00:14:44.89\00:14:47.77
young adults
have the notion that
00:14:47.78\00:14:51.16
if it has pleasure, it's wrong.
00:14:51.17\00:14:55.39
Again that is that's
just Greek philosophy
00:14:55.40\00:14:59.46
that have crept
into Christianity.
00:14:59.47\00:15:01.90
And its not just a phenomenon
that manifested itself
00:15:01.91\00:15:04.01
in the Medieval
Church, Protestant Churches
00:15:04.02\00:15:06.41
also have many
of those vestiges.
00:15:06.42\00:15:08.84
We need to as Christians,
I think be responsible
00:15:08.85\00:15:11.02
and say, I need
to address my faith,
00:15:11.03\00:15:15.09
my faith group and
evaluate where they are getting
00:15:15.10\00:15:18.72
some of these
misconceptions from?
00:15:18.73\00:15:21.02
And the vast majority
of them, at least the ones
00:15:21.03\00:15:23.44
that I've found have origins
with Greek philosophy. Okay.
00:15:23.45\00:15:26.80
And so for me,
I'm not saying that
00:15:26.81\00:15:29.54
it is evil, but its different
00:15:29.55\00:15:31.47
than the
biblical word view. Sure.
00:15:31.48\00:15:33.08
And they have
some good things in it.
00:15:33.09\00:15:34.77
But I need to compare everything
00:15:34.78\00:15:36.45
and go with what
the Bible teaches me,
00:15:36.46\00:15:38.13
because we've already
seen in the first two chapters,
00:15:38.14\00:15:40.40
it kind of undoes
pretty much everything
00:15:40.41\00:15:42.23
that Greek philosophy has done
00:15:42.24\00:15:43.87
for centuries
with division churches.
00:15:43.88\00:15:45.81
So in other
words not everything,
00:15:45.82\00:15:48.02
in other words God
is not anti pleasure.
00:15:48.03\00:15:51.56
Actually, let's turn
to Psalms Chapter 16.
00:15:51.57\00:15:54.79
Psalms Chapter 16.
00:15:54.80\00:15:58.31
A friend of
mine, I mean Chester,
00:15:58.32\00:16:00.25
shared this, I youth for Jesus,
00:16:00.26\00:16:02.98
and I was at that time.
00:16:02.99\00:16:04.73
This topic has been--
00:16:04.74\00:16:05.93
I've been
developing it more and more in.
00:16:05.94\00:16:07.67
Every time I prepare even
to come here is new insight
00:16:07.68\00:16:10.23
and, you know,
the word of God is so,
00:16:10.24\00:16:11.34
so God wants us to
really be educated in this
00:16:11.35\00:16:13.92
Psalms Chapter 16 verse 11
00:16:13.93\00:16:16.45
Daniel would you
like to read it? sure.
00:16:16.46\00:16:18.87
"You will show
me the path of life,
00:16:18.88\00:16:20.66
in your presence
is fullness of joy,
00:16:20.67\00:16:22.83
at your right hand there
are pleasures for ever more."
00:16:22.84\00:16:26.73
So how would you
think that this passage
00:16:26.74\00:16:29.26
will answer young
person that feels that
00:16:29.27\00:16:31.54
God does not want
us to have pleasure
00:16:31.55\00:16:33.36
in our lives. All right.
00:16:33.37\00:16:34.64
And it's not only pleasure
00:16:34.65\00:16:35.84
but it's
pleasures for ever more.
00:16:35.85\00:16:37.28
That's right and there
is a kind of a pleasure
00:16:37.29\00:16:41.63
that God gives and the qualifier
00:16:41.64\00:16:44.06
is that its eternal, it's
not ending it's always fresh.
00:16:44.07\00:16:48.11
If you go to the
Book of the Hebrews,
00:16:48.12\00:16:49.54
don't loose your placing.
So I finger in Psalm 16.
00:16:49.55\00:16:53.14
Turn to the Book
of Hebrews Chapter 11.
00:16:53.15\00:16:56.27
Hebrews in New Testament.
00:16:56.28\00:16:57.82
Chapter 11 verses 24 and 25.
00:17:00.97\00:17:04.31
Jay, would you
like to take this verse.
00:17:04.32\00:17:05.78
Actually I would
love to because Hebrews
00:17:05.79\00:17:07.32
is my favorite book
in the New Testament.
00:17:07.33\00:17:09.42
So Hebrews Chapter
11, 24 and 25. Yes.
00:17:09.43\00:17:12.43
"It says by faith Moses
when he became of age refuse
00:17:12.44\00:17:15.78
to be called the son
of pharaoh's daughter
00:17:15.79\00:17:17.78
choosing rather to suffer
affliction with the people
00:17:17.79\00:17:21.03
of God than to enjoy the
passing pleasures of sin.
00:17:21.04\00:17:26.10
Excellent.
Temporal, temporal, temporary.
00:17:26.11\00:17:28.77
See at this verse for me
the more I read the Bible,
00:17:28.78\00:17:31.42
I used to think the Bible
was for boring old people.
00:17:31.43\00:17:35.68
They have nothing to do but
sit on a pull chair and swing.
00:17:35.69\00:17:37.70
I can resonate with that, okay.
00:17:37.71\00:17:39.91
But I never realized
how real the Bible is,
00:17:39.92\00:17:42.39
because I felt that
the church was trying to
00:17:42.40\00:17:44.80
convince me that
sin had no pleasure,
00:17:44.81\00:17:47.84
but the more I
would nibble at the world,
00:17:47.85\00:17:49.38
I'm like man this felt good.
00:17:49.39\00:17:51.06
What are they
talking they are lying to me,
00:17:51.07\00:17:53.00
but the Bible does
not lie to the reader.
00:17:53.01\00:17:55.40
And this passage it says,
00:17:55.41\00:17:56.43
that sin has pleasure,
but it is a different kind of
00:17:56.44\00:17:59.25
pleasure than the
ones God has for us.
00:17:59.26\00:18:01.70
The ones that God
has for us are eternal,
00:18:01.71\00:18:04.27
non ending, non
fading, they don't get old.
00:18:04.28\00:18:06.97
But the pleasures of the world,
00:18:06.98\00:18:08.97
there's a time of novelty.
00:18:08.98\00:18:11.01
There's a time we're
wow, this is exciting,
00:18:11.02\00:18:13.12
but then
gradually it fades away.
00:18:13.13\00:18:15.61
Wow, so then really
pleasure in the world is--
00:18:15.62\00:18:20.80
In other words you'll
find pleasure in the world.
00:18:20.81\00:18:22.53
And you will find
pleasure with God,
00:18:22.54\00:18:23.60
the difference then
is that the pleasure
00:18:23.61\00:18:25.81
with God is a
perpetual pleasure. Yes.
00:18:25.82\00:18:28.40
That only gets better
and better and better.
00:18:28.41\00:18:30.08
It's interesting
because I am no Hebrew scholar
00:18:30.09\00:18:33.22
by any means, but in the
original language actually,
00:18:33.23\00:18:36.13
the Garden of
Eden, which of course
00:18:36.14\00:18:38.36
was the dwelling place,
the habitation that God had
00:18:38.37\00:18:40.88
for Adam and Eve,
prior to the entrance of sin.
00:18:40.89\00:18:44.13
Eden in the original
Hebrew actually means pleasure.
00:18:44.14\00:18:46.93
Wow, I might have
to write it down, Jay.
00:18:46.94\00:18:48.73
So, the Garden of
Eden, is essentially
00:18:48.74\00:18:50.59
is the garden of
pleasure. Pleassure.
00:18:50.60\00:18:52.50
And I think the
interesting thing here
00:18:52.51\00:18:54.56
as Dan was mentioning is that
00:18:54.57\00:18:56.27
somehow in Genesis 3 when
the serpent spoke to the woman.
00:18:56.28\00:18:59.99
It almost appeared as
the serpent was trying to
00:19:00.00\00:19:02.93
let the woman know that
she-She is missing something.
00:19:02.94\00:19:06.67
For God knows
that if you ate of it.
00:19:06.68\00:19:08.88
That you will be as gods.
00:19:08.89\00:19:10.26
Now to get in other words
00:19:10.27\00:19:11.67
if you only tasted
this kind of pleasure,
00:19:11.68\00:19:15.31
you would experience
00:19:15.32\00:19:17.13
the zenith of
existence or whatever.
00:19:17.14\00:19:18.63
It's not even that
she is just missing out,
00:19:18.64\00:19:20.41
but God is
withholding it. Yeah, right.
00:19:20.42\00:19:22.81
And do you know, that's
the irony the sad paradox
00:19:22.82\00:19:25.75
of modern
Christianity that Christianity
00:19:25.76\00:19:28.61
is actually speaking
on behalf of the serpent
00:19:28.62\00:19:30.40
by saying those very words
when it comes to sexuality.
00:19:30.41\00:19:34.03
When I used to first
started doing Bible work
00:19:34.04\00:19:36.07
and kids would ask me,
I'm living with my girlfriend
00:19:36.08\00:19:39.13
or whatever those kind
of things were very common.
00:19:39.14\00:19:42.19
I was--I lacked
experience, and God by His grace
00:19:42.20\00:19:45.72
would make up for those
mistakes that I've made,
00:19:45.73\00:19:47.23
I'm not--I'm still
not perfect, you know,
00:19:47.24\00:19:48.84
my little girl is
showing on a daily basis.
00:19:48.85\00:19:52.20
But I will go kind of just
to say kind of like a jugular
00:19:52.21\00:19:54.93
and right away say no
brother, you are sinning,
00:19:54.94\00:19:57.41
you got to stop that. Right.
00:19:57.42\00:19:59.29
Now there is
pleasure in sin. Yeah.
00:19:59.30\00:20:01.67
And for me to have
gone and said that to him
00:20:01.68\00:20:03.98
basically I'm telling
him, God thus saith the Lord,
00:20:03.99\00:20:08.47
thou needed to suffer
by withholding pleasure.
00:20:08.48\00:20:11.92
What I would have said to
him is your pleasure is good,
00:20:11.93\00:20:16.37
but the pleasure
God has for you is best,
00:20:16.38\00:20:19.57
which one would you want.
00:20:19.58\00:20:21.48
And invite him to
begin a journey with God,
00:20:21.49\00:20:24.25
because I realize that
00:20:24.26\00:20:25.25
many times we just
tell people what to do.
00:20:25.26\00:20:27.06
I was told what
to do was thou never
00:20:27.07\00:20:29.04
intelligent reason behind it.
00:20:29.05\00:20:31.44
And if there is a book
00:20:31.45\00:20:32.44
that speaks to our intelligence
00:20:32.45\00:20:34.26
to our reason is
the word of God. Amen.
00:20:34.27\00:20:36.91
So for me I began to say Lord,
00:20:36.92\00:20:39.28
I would tell Him, you
got to stop having sex
00:20:39.29\00:20:41.46
with his girlfriend
and guess what will happen
00:20:41.47\00:20:42.60
with their Bible studies.
00:20:42.61\00:20:46.10
I need to cancel with you
my girl friend got mad at me,
00:20:46.11\00:20:49.22
so that's the end
of the Bible studies.
00:20:49.23\00:20:51.45
And I will realize
Lord, what went wrong.
00:20:51.46\00:20:55.47
I told him truth, but you know,
00:20:55.48\00:20:57.72
you know, he doesn't
want to study anymore.
00:20:57.73\00:20:59.56
And I realized, I need
to examine my own journey
00:20:59.57\00:21:03.25
with the Lord, right,
regarding sexuality. Right.
00:21:03.26\00:21:06.02
God did not tell me stop.
00:21:06.03\00:21:08.32
God said, I have
something better for you. Right.
00:21:08.33\00:21:10.40
Like the woman at
the well have water that
00:21:10.41\00:21:11.87
you will never
thirst from again. Right.
00:21:11.88\00:21:14.30
Now, Ariel, maybe there
is a young person watching
00:21:14.31\00:21:17.13
this program, maybe
there is a young person
00:21:17.14\00:21:18.76
thinking wow, what's
wrong with being involved
00:21:18.77\00:21:23.36
in intimate relations
with somebody that's not,
00:21:23.37\00:21:28.25
that I'm not
married to after all
00:21:28.26\00:21:30.03
God is about pleasure
and obviously sexuality
00:21:30.04\00:21:33.20
at least we've learned
now that is a good thing,
00:21:33.21\00:21:36.11
so what's wrong.
00:21:36.12\00:21:38.22
In your pastoral experience,
00:21:38.23\00:21:40.04
what have you seen as
may be negative results
00:21:40.05\00:21:44.08
of young people
that indulge in this.
00:21:44.09\00:21:46.74
Its harder at first
maybe to express it to them
00:21:46.75\00:21:49.27
but if you take
them to the word of God,
00:21:49.28\00:21:51.37
the word of God has
a powerful way to speak
00:21:51.38\00:21:54.52
to our conscience, the
part of us that is sensitive.
00:21:54.53\00:21:57.76
And the passages that I
will share with them will be
00:21:57.77\00:21:59.97
Genesis Chapter 2
verse 7. Back to Genesis.
00:21:59.98\00:22:03.53
I love this is my
favorite book in the Bible,
00:22:03.54\00:22:05.17
yours is
Hebrew, mine is Genesis.
00:22:05.18\00:22:06.73
Well, actually my Old Testament
00:22:06.74\00:22:07.73
favorite is Isaiah, but
my New Testament is Hebrews.
00:22:07.74\00:22:10.22
Which Chapter in Genesis?
Genesis Chapter 2. Genesis 2.
00:22:10.23\00:22:14.86
Verse 7 "And the
Lord God formed man
00:22:14.87\00:22:18.80
out of the dust of the ground,
00:22:18.81\00:22:21.06
and breathed into his
nostrils the spirit of life,
00:22:21.07\00:22:24.29
breath of life and
man became a living soul".
00:22:24.30\00:22:29.05
This passage is highly loaded
00:22:29.06\00:22:32.01
but the basic thrust of
this is there is an aspect
00:22:32.02\00:22:35.46
of our that is physical.
00:22:35.47\00:22:37.55
But then God also
made us in to be emotional,
00:22:37.56\00:22:41.26
intellectual and spiritual.
00:22:41.27\00:22:44.07
These four main
components to every human being.
00:22:44.08\00:22:47.36
And the way we look at
sexuality is guess which one,
00:22:47.37\00:22:49.68
you have physical, emotional,
00:22:49.69\00:22:50.91
mental and
spiritual, guess which one
00:22:50.92\00:22:53.37
we always associate it
with. This one physical.
00:22:53.38\00:22:56.11
So that's a fourth
00:22:56.12\00:22:57.37
of what we could be
experiencing sexually. Wow.
00:22:57.38\00:23:00.87
And I share with them, you know,
00:23:00.88\00:23:03.12
begin to answer
these questions besides,
00:23:03.13\00:23:05.33
you know, being very creative
and very, very proficient
00:23:05.34\00:23:09.72
in your sexual, you know act,
00:23:09.73\00:23:12.32
what else do you
guys share in common.
00:23:12.33\00:23:14.83
Do you guys talk to
each other from their heart?
00:23:14.84\00:23:16.53
Do you know her? Do
you k now her fears?
00:23:16.54\00:23:18.63
Do you know his past?
00:23:18.64\00:23:20.13
Do you know the things
00:23:20.14\00:23:21.44
that cause him
hurt, his insecurities?
00:23:21.45\00:23:23.86
You know, what the answer was?
00:23:23.87\00:23:25.67
No, especially from the men.
00:23:25.68\00:23:28.81
They had a hard time
00:23:28.82\00:23:29.87
expressing
things from within them.
00:23:29.88\00:23:31.27
So their relationship was
always getting half half shot
00:23:31.28\00:23:33.92
and it would end.
00:23:33.93\00:23:35.02
It was physical,
physical, and then its out.
00:23:35.03\00:23:37.70
They didn't have
that emotional connection.
00:23:37.71\00:23:38.86
It would fizzle out. Wow.
00:23:38.87\00:23:40.48
And eventually
he would break up,
00:23:40.49\00:23:42.13
she would break up and
they go on find someone else.
00:23:42.14\00:23:43.92
This is the
one, this is the one,
00:23:43.93\00:23:45.64
so I'd encourage them and
say, let this one be the one
00:23:45.65\00:23:48.86
by adding the other
three components. Amen.
00:23:48.87\00:23:51.36
And I wouldn't start with
the mental or the emotional,
00:23:51.37\00:23:54.85
I would start with
spiritual, spiritual.
00:23:54.86\00:23:56.95
And what happens to the person
00:23:56.96\00:23:58.59
who just engages
in the physical act
00:23:58.60\00:24:00.82
person to person, lives
a promiscuous lifestyle.
00:24:00.83\00:24:04.34
What is that
person doing to himself?
00:24:04.35\00:24:07.30
Well, like we have
just said they are robbing
00:24:07.31\00:24:09.18
of themselves of
75% of their humanity.
00:24:09.19\00:24:13.26
That's where the
word of God would appeal
00:24:13.27\00:24:15.07
to them and say, you
are selling yourself short.
00:24:15.08\00:24:17.54
Yes, if he was good undeniable,
00:24:17.55\00:24:19.49
I mean just as good as,
you know, you take sometimes
00:24:19.50\00:24:21.98
with drugs or
alcohol or things like that.
00:24:21.99\00:24:24.20
There is that
element of pleasure
00:24:24.21\00:24:25.51
that Bible will not deny
it, but the Bible will seek
00:24:25.52\00:24:28.22
to encourage or to
say consider it though,
00:24:28.23\00:24:30.99
what if there was
something better than
00:24:31.00\00:24:33.42
what you have right now.
00:24:33.43\00:24:35.05
And many people think, there
is nothing better than sex.
00:24:35.06\00:24:38.54
But sex at a level
where there is spiritual,
00:24:38.55\00:24:41.69
emotional, mental and physical
00:24:41.70\00:24:47.06
compatibility component,
00:24:47.07\00:24:48.49
when those four combine,
there is a level of the unity
00:24:48.50\00:24:51.79
that carries people
for their entire life. Wow.
00:24:51.80\00:24:55.12
Before I was a
minister I was a nurse
00:24:55.13\00:24:56.63
and I worked at a nursing home.
00:24:56.64\00:24:58.64
And in all the nursing
homes that I had you have
00:24:58.65\00:25:00.45
married couples and they
were given this special sign
00:25:00.46\00:25:03.99
that they will
put on their door,
00:25:04.00\00:25:05.74
you know what that
sign said "Do not disturb"
00:25:05.75\00:25:10.16
you know why?
00:25:10.17\00:25:11.47
It's not because
they were in the bathroom.
00:25:11.48\00:25:13.20
Do you have an idea, why?
00:25:13.21\00:25:14.54
And these were
60 years old. Wow.
00:25:14.55\00:25:17.56
And most people think that
sex fades out around 30 or 40
00:25:17.57\00:25:20.93
or when you get
married or when you have kids.
00:25:20.94\00:25:23.48
But when you put God's presence
00:25:23.49\00:25:25.18
into your relationship,
you'll read from Psalm 16:11.
00:25:25.19\00:25:29.23
The pleasures
including the pleasure from sex
00:25:29.24\00:25:31.74
with his partner increases. Wow.
00:25:31.75\00:25:35.72
The sexual pleasure in the world
00:25:35.73\00:25:37.59
because it's lack in
these three other components
00:25:37.60\00:25:40.36
that pleasure decreases,
00:25:40.37\00:25:43.23
it begins to become
more and more impoverish,
00:25:43.24\00:25:45.45
more and more limited.
00:25:45.46\00:25:46.45
So you are saying that
bond grows stronger. Yes
00:25:46.46\00:25:50.23
By not, you know, living
the promiscuous lifestyle.Yes.
00:25:50.24\00:25:54.73
We only have a few
seconds, because we only have
00:25:54.74\00:25:56.22
a few minutes left.
00:25:56.23\00:25:57.80
What counsel would
you give to young person
00:25:57.81\00:25:59.99
that maybe finds himself
00:26:00.00\00:26:01.78
kind of in a complex
situation with intimacy?
00:26:01.79\00:26:05.41
Where would you
counsel them to look for help?
00:26:05.42\00:26:07.63
What is that may be one or two
points that you could give me
00:26:07.64\00:26:09.53
in a few seconds that we have,
00:26:09.54\00:26:10.61
in only 20 seconds.
00:26:10.62\00:26:11.70
I would pretty
much ask them to pray
00:26:11.71\00:26:13.76
because God is awakening you.
00:26:13.77\00:26:15.82
The fact, the very
fact that you are having
00:26:15.83\00:26:17.02
those sentiments is
evidence that God is speaking
00:26:17.03\00:26:18.83
to your heart. Amen.
00:26:18.84\00:26:20.15
So if he is
speaking to your heart,
00:26:20.16\00:26:21.57
he's already has an
answer to your desire to have
00:26:21.58\00:26:24.11
someone guide you,
pray for eyes and ears
00:26:24.12\00:26:26.78
to recognize that and
be active, go to a church,
00:26:26.79\00:26:29.07
that's kind of like
a safe place to go in,
00:26:29.08\00:26:31.70
talk to a pastor. Proactive.
00:26:31.71\00:26:34.09
I want to say any age
00:26:34.10\00:26:36.02
because you have elderly pastors
00:26:36.03\00:26:37.34
and may have wisdom
and will he able to relate
00:26:37.35\00:26:39.00
to young people
and but find a pastor
00:26:39.01\00:26:41.53
that you can speak to and
you can feel comfortable with
00:26:41.54\00:26:44.34
and be transparent.
00:26:44.35\00:26:46.76
Even if there is an
older pastor you make him
00:26:46.77\00:26:49.57
a little uncomfortable.
00:26:49.58\00:26:51.10
Right after
those tough questions.
00:26:51.11\00:26:52.28
Sometimes I was
younger and the questions I got
00:26:52.29\00:26:54.14
you know about oral
sex and all these things
00:26:54.15\00:26:55.73
I was like, well, this,
where is that I can quote it.
00:26:55.74\00:27:00.04
You mean if you're uncomfortable
00:27:03.95\00:27:04.98
but you confront him,
why you are uncomfortable
00:27:04.99\00:27:06.95
about talking about this. Right.
00:27:06.96\00:27:08.51
And the more
comfortable I have felt
00:27:08.52\00:27:11.26
the more credibility I
had with the young people.
00:27:11.27\00:27:13.52
So find someone
that is comfortable
00:27:13.53\00:27:15.03
talking to you about
this probably someone
00:27:15.04\00:27:16.37
with the family, someone
that has some experiences
00:27:16.38\00:27:19.23
in life and look
at their marriage.
00:27:19.24\00:27:23.09
Is he happy, is he
happy with his wife
00:27:23.10\00:27:25.54
or if it is the wife
if you are a young lady
00:27:25.55\00:27:27.33
preferably I
would highly recommend
00:27:27.34\00:27:28.80
talking to a female not a male.
00:27:28.81\00:27:31.71
Well, it's obviously
Ariel, that being a father
00:27:31.72\00:27:33.86
and a husband have really
given you a lot of insights
00:27:33.87\00:27:36.33
and lot of
wisdom into the subject.
00:27:36.34\00:27:38.47
So we just
really want to thank you
00:27:38.48\00:27:39.84
for coming into our
show and for blessing us
00:27:39.85\00:27:42.40
for all these things. My
Blessings onto my pleasure.
00:27:42.41\00:27:44.75
And I wanted to just
speak to the audience
00:27:44.76\00:27:47.53
that's watching that two things.
00:27:47.54\00:27:49.51
Number one, if
you've gone everything
00:27:49.52\00:27:51.16
that we've mentioned,
number one, there is help,
00:27:51.17\00:27:53.84
you can find help.
00:27:53.85\00:27:55.49
And number two, that
the word of God answers
00:27:55.50\00:27:58.35
to the deepest
questions of life.
00:27:58.36\00:28:00.48
God bless you.
00:28:00.49\00:28:01.95