Hello and welcome to Engage,
I'm David Asscherick and we
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are thrilled that you have
joined us today for our program.
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Titled, When Love Is Not Enough!
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Now the Bible says in Psalms
37:4, "delight yourself in
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"the Lord and He will give
you the desires of your heart."
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Now that raises the
question, what exactly are those
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desires that He gives us?
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There is another hint, a
powerful, powerful insight I
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think that we find in the
minor prophet book of Haggai.
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Haggai 2:7 in which it refers
to the Messiah, Jesus Christ
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as "the desire of all nations".
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Think about that
for just a moment.
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When we delight ourselves
in the Lord He gives us the
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desires of our heart, and
according to the Bible Jesus
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is the desires of
all nations and all ages.
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So when God gives us the
desires of our hearts, do you
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know what He gives
us? He gives us Himself.
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Who better to satisfy the
longing desires of the human
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heart then Him
who made it to desire.
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So our program today,
When Love Is Not Enough!
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My co-host Shandra Ban and
a returning guest so Shandra
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tell us who is with you
today and we are looking forward
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to a great program.
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Absolutely, I'm excited to
reintroduce Josh Cunningham to
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our viewers as David mentioned
we have had him here before.
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It was a wonderful program
about him being a musical
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missionary, a musicianary, Josh
if you could just quickly recap
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what we talked about
the last time you were here.
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Well last time I was on the
program we went over my story
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which basically begins with
me being born into an Adventist
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Christian home and
growing up to the age of 10 in
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that context and then my
family left the church and I
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entered my teenage years
rejoicing over the fact I
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didn't have to be part of
the church culture I wasn't
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really connected
to as a young child.
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I then got involved in playing
music and I played rock 'n
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roll music and got
in bands and traveled.
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After I finished high school
I left home and got in another
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band which then began
another chapter in my life.
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That band became quite
successful in Australia and to
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lesser extent here in America
and elsewhere in the world.
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We had albums that sold in
good numbers and we won awards
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and were living a lifestyle
that many people would think
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was very desirous, it
would be a dream existence
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for a lot of people.
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But then I started to feel
like it wasn't quite enough,
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there was something
missing, something lacking.
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There was a deeper desire I
had within me and no matter of
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fame or fortune or
notoriety or things of the world
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places great value on.
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No amount of those
things could satisfy those deep
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longings of my heart.
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In the last program we use the
analogy language of living water
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- yeah exactly. Then you
sang us that beautiful song,
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but that's what it is you
are drinking from the earthly
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wells in of fame and success
in this desirable lifestyle,
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but then you had a
taste of the living water.
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Exactly and I think also the
way that transpired was really
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largely to the faithful prayers
of my parents, as I mentioned
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they left the church when I was
around the age of 10 and they
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eventually went back and
they prayed for many years that
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myself and also my
brother and sister had a similar
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experience to me in that
they departed from the faith.
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So how did it come about that
you came back into the faith?
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My parents where praying
specifically that God would lead
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people into my
path to witness to me.
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I was traveling around in
America and elsewhere playing
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music and they prayed
specifically that God would the
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people into my path
which is exactly what happened.
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There was a two-year sequence
where various people coming
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along, beginning conversations
in random situations,
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sometimes after shows,
sometimes in the checkout line
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at the grocery store, I
had people that were giving me
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books to read and I
have this growing interest in
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spiritual things and
started traveling with the
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Bible reading it occasionally.
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When you say traveling you
mean on tour. - on tour yes.
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There was one person in
particular that came into your
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path and really showed you
who Christ was, can you tell us
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a little bit more about that?
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Yes, it was about five
years ago I met a young lady
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on a plane of all places.
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I remember when I first
became aware of this person and
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later on she told me
she had the same experience,
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there was a sense that
there was something very
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significant, it was a
magnetism it was an attraction
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that wasn't necessarily
a physical attraction.
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It was something more
profound and deeper than that.
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Ultimately upon the promptings
of some friends that were
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traveling with me and
against my natural instinct
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I approached her and introduced
myself and invited her
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to come along to a show
we were doing in the area.
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- so did she come? She came,
but she missed the show, she
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had to work late so she
didn't get to see the band play.
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But what happened was
we went out afterwards when
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she arrived after we
had finished playing,
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we went out to
get something to eat.
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We ordered food and sat
there and went cold on the table
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and we just got
straight into this conversation.
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I didn't realize it but the
reason why I had that sense of
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attraction of magnetism
of being drawn to this person
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was because God
had put her in my path.
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She was the collimation in cess-
ation of the people He led to
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witness to me and
she was very intentional.
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She saw as an opportunity
to witness, because I had
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burdeningly
interested in spirituality.
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- but you didn't see it as
a decidedly spiritual thing?
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- no, no but she did.
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- she was very
intentional about it?
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- Yeah she is very
intentional about it.
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- she was a believer? - yeah.
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- you don't know that at
the point but now you know
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she is a believer and she
sees it as this opportunity.
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Exactly, so when she started
witnessing to me the cobs
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that running in my mind and
I am suddenly realizing this is
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no accident, this is no
coincidence, this person is not
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just here by chance she
has been placed here by God.
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He is trying to reach me,
He is trying to draw me into
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a relationship with Himself
and it was at that moment
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that I really started to
get a deep sense of how much
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God cared for me as
a broken individual.
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- so this awareness was not
something that took place in
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hindsight after the fact,
you are having this awareness
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during the cold food conversa-
tion? - exactly, exactly!
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So what happened that
evening after your conversation?
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Well we said our farewells
and we prayed together.
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She prayed with me, but then
I went back to my hotel room.
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- were you in
the habit of praying?
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No, I hadn't great since I
was a little kid. - really?
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When your little kid - but
I am saying for her to pray
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with you this was a
change, this is great stuff.
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Yeah, I remember having
this adrenaline this feeling of
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it was powerful and
something was happening.
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I went back to my hotel
room and I got down on my knees
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and knelt by the bed and
prayed for the first time since
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I was little kid
having to say my prayers
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by my bed and then
my mom and dad tuck
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me in for the night.
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So yeah I prayed and
invited Jesus into my heart,
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I knew as I said that this
was no accident, this is an
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intentional thing that He
places this person in my path
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for that very reason.
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So you're touring with
your band and obviously
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you were not in your
hometown, so do to keep in touch
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with her afterwards? -
I did and what eventually
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transpired was that we got
into a relationship with each
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other, I guess because
God had obviously brought us
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together in such a
powerful and profound way.
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We felt that He was leading
us into a relationship with
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one another and that was a
very exciting and wonderful
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thing. You can imagine
as a new Christian as this
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adrenaline, this euphoria -
and this is the one that led
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there. - it was kind of logical?
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- It seemed like the
logical thing, and even though
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we were very, we had
to be careful because as
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a brand-new Christian I
recognize the need to separate
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the two relationships, so
here I am just entering into a
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relationship with Jesus
Christ, but then there's this
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human relationship as well
that was also very exciting.
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It was like falling
in love on two counts.
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- that's not easy to do,
it's very difficult to keep
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those two loves
separate, were you successful?
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Yeah, in hindsight probably
not as successful as we could
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have been, in hindsight I
actually realize now that God's
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purpose in bringing us together
is purely for the fact of
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her witnessing to me.
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I don't believe that He
had a greater plan beyond that.
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But that's the
combination of the story I guess
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we are working our way through.
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Because the title of the
program is When Love Is Not
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Enough, and so you begin
to think somewhat logically,
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but certainly there must
have been some attraction there?
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There is not just a spiritual
element, but there is a
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romantic element
as well? - Yeah, yeah.
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Something that I don't
want to miss there Joshua is
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that you were witness to
like that night, that evening,
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and it was that night
that you are praying by your
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bedside inviting
Jesus into your heart.
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When I hear you say that
that's so speaks to me because
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often we think oh you know
I witness to someone and told
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them about Jesus, and we
think we are planting seeds and
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often times what we take
that to mean is that a week or
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two or three, of course
this was the culmination but at
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some point someone is going
to come in and say the right
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thing and that is the decision.
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The night, the
moment of decision.
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Praise the Lord she was
faithful - Amen! - Praise God
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she was faithful in that
witnessing because that led
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you to your knees. - Yeah!
00:10:02.64\00:10:04.30
I always said to her, as
I mention we recognized the
00:10:04.34\00:10:08.25
distinction between the two
relationships, we didn't know
00:10:08.29\00:10:11.61
exactly where it was heading,
I said to her regardless of
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whether our parts alternately
intertwine I will always
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consider it such a
great blessing from God that
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you came into my life.
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You are always going to
be significant and special
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person in my life.
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Exactly, praise God
that she was so faithful in
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witnessing, and I guess it
goes to show that you never
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know where you're coming
along in someone's journey.
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You never know what stage
of that cycle they are at as an
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individual, something singularly
insignificant you could
00:10:40.48\00:10:44.25
say may have profound
influence on a person.
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- absolutely and I'm sure
we've all seen that in our
00:10:46.73\00:10:49.72
own lives, so now you are
beginning to talk about the
00:10:49.75\00:10:52.71
relationship in the past
tense which leads us to believe
00:10:52.75\00:10:55.70
and our viewers to believe
that this is something that
00:10:55.74\00:10:58.66
came to an end. So
walk us through that.
00:10:58.70\00:11:01.84
Well early on in our relation-
ship and me being a brand-new
00:11:01.87\00:11:05.37
Christian and my default
setting having been raised in an
00:11:05.40\00:11:08.86
Adventist home was to
gravitate back towards that.
00:11:08.89\00:11:13.10
I started
attending church straightaway
00:11:13.14\00:11:14.73
- while you're touring
- while I was touring and
00:11:14.76\00:11:17.21
I was seeking out Adventist
churches but I was also
00:11:17.24\00:11:19.65
going on Sundays as well.
00:11:19.68\00:11:20.89
That was what I was familiar
with and that's what I was
00:11:20.93\00:11:23.10
comfortable with so that
is what I tended towards.
00:11:23.13\00:11:25.83
She however was not an
Adventist. - so you started to
00:11:25.87\00:11:28.53
see some conflict? -
there were some differences and
00:11:28.56\00:11:31.16
even very early on as a new
Christian I recognized them and
00:11:31.19\00:11:34.25
I actually for the sake of
preserving our relationship,
00:11:34.29\00:11:37.96
I didn't really go too
far with what I felt God was
00:11:38.00\00:11:41.58
convicted me of because I
knew it would cause a rift or
00:11:41.61\00:11:45.16
a division or a
gulf between us that
00:11:45.20\00:11:46.88
I didn't want to be there.
00:11:46.92\00:11:49.32
As a Pastor I see this
all the time, when someone has
00:11:49.35\00:11:52.69
fallen in love with the
person, or they are going into
00:11:52.73\00:11:55.49
a relationship with someone
who is not a believer and
00:11:55.53\00:11:58.26
then they say all he
is sweet, or he's kind,
00:11:58.29\00:12:00.81
or she is nice and she's
got good values, morals and
00:12:00.85\00:12:04.13
then that person begins to
show an interest in spiritual
00:12:04.16\00:12:07.41
things and it is
very, very difficult, I mean
00:12:07.44\00:12:09.66
you said looking back
you guys didn't succeed
00:12:09.69\00:12:11.87
I don't know if
anybody succeeds.
00:12:11.91\00:12:13.77
Keeping those two things,
my relationship with God and
00:12:13.80\00:12:18.54
my attraction to this
person and this invites,
00:12:18.57\00:12:21.42
this is a recipe for compromise
because you don't want
00:12:21.46\00:12:24.91
to have conflict and so
you have maybe I can fudge
00:12:24.95\00:12:28.37
here, or maybe this
isn't so important and
00:12:28.41\00:12:31.46
it sounds like that is-
00:12:31.50\00:12:32.74
I've seen this to a great
extreme and sounds like it is
00:12:32.78\00:12:37.48
what was happening
in your experience.
00:12:37.52\00:12:38.66
Yeah and there were
little victories along the way
00:12:38.70\00:12:41.37
that made it seem like
we were coming in to harmony
00:12:41.40\00:12:44.04
more and more.
00:12:44.08\00:12:45.05
For instance the Sabbath
was something I was convicted
00:12:45.06\00:12:47.55
about, and she initially wasn't.
00:12:47.59\00:12:50.88
Then eventually she
made a decision with her work
00:12:50.91\00:12:54.43
alternately it would
result in her losing her job.
00:12:54.47\00:12:57.64
And she became convicted
about the Sabbath as well and
00:12:57.68\00:13:00.15
you look at something
like that and the way that God
00:13:00.18\00:13:02.62
brought us together
and you think He is working
00:13:02.65\00:13:04.68
and there is a plan here.
00:13:04.72\00:13:05.80
- we'll something we
need to just ask, I suppose
00:13:05.84\00:13:08.87
if you are getting into
relationship with a person
00:13:08.91\00:13:11.88
who is not a Christian at
all it might be easier for us
00:13:11.91\00:13:14.47
to say well you shouldn't
be with her, but the very fact
00:13:14.50\00:13:17.03
that she was a
Christian, we need to ask
00:13:17.06\00:13:19.06
what is wrong with that?
Why can't you just compromise?
00:13:19.10\00:13:22.37
Yeah, I guess that is a
good question and a lot of
00:13:22.40\00:13:25.52
people see it that way as
long as you share faith in
00:13:25.56\00:13:29.19
Jesus Christ and you like
each other and respect each
00:13:29.22\00:13:32.82
other that is enough.
00:13:32.86\00:13:34.19
Love can be enough, I
guess that we realized that
00:13:34.23\00:13:38.76
love was not enough.
00:13:38.79\00:13:40.22
As my relationship with God
grew, I knew that He was the
00:13:40.25\00:13:43.76
most important thing, at
least I wanted Him to be the
00:13:43.80\00:13:46.38
most important thing and I
wanted every other aspect of
00:13:46.42\00:13:48.96
my life to fall under
the umbrella of God in
00:13:49.00\00:13:53.36
my relationship to God.
00:13:53.40\00:13:54.60
Obviously in terms of
relationship, in a serious
00:13:54.64\00:13:57.87
relationship you want
that to be firmly rooted on the
00:13:57.90\00:14:01.09
spiritual foundation
where we're both in agreement.
00:14:01.12\00:14:04.02
Josh you guys try to
harmonize this for as long as
00:14:04.06\00:14:06.92
possible, even to
planning your wedding?
00:14:06.96\00:14:09.37
Exactly we ultimately got
engaged and we were engaged
00:14:09.41\00:14:12.32
for a year. - that would
make a great name for a show,
00:14:12.35\00:14:15.23
Engage, don't you think?
00:14:15.27\00:14:17.51
It could work - it could work.
00:14:17.54\00:14:19.07
Yes so we came to actually
within one month of our wedding
00:14:19.11\00:14:23.25
before we realized that we
weren't getting any closer.
00:14:23.28\00:14:26.50
I guess there were things
that we thought when we decided
00:14:26.54\00:14:29.48
to get married we thought
we would go forward in Faith,
00:14:29.52\00:14:32.59
God is leading us closer
and as time goes on and we get
00:14:32.63\00:14:35.67
closer to our
wedding I'm sure He's going
00:14:35.71\00:14:37.41
to continue that process.
00:14:37.44\00:14:38.74
I think what happened was
it got fuzzier and fuzzier as
00:14:38.77\00:14:42.82
the pressure of a wedding
date loomed, I guess we just
00:14:42.85\00:14:46.87
felt increasingly
distant from one another.
00:14:46.90\00:14:49.25
You said you got to
within a month of your wedding,
00:14:49.28\00:14:52.17
so invitations have been
sent, plane tickets are booked
00:14:52.21\00:14:55.20
and this is the real deal,
not just we are talking about
00:14:55.23\00:14:58.19
getting married but
your wedding is planned.
00:14:58.22\00:15:00.38
- ya exactly and it was a
pre - Wells probably as planned
00:15:00.42\00:15:04.29
as it could be it was
just a very small wedding with
00:15:04.33\00:15:07.50
family, but yeah there was
a degree of complication and
00:15:07.53\00:15:10.40
some things that had to be
dealt with within that respect
00:15:10.44\00:15:13.28
but at the end of the
day you can't go through the
00:15:13.31\00:15:15.64
wedding just because you
don't want it to be inconvenient
00:15:15.68\00:15:18.26
for certain people that
have made plans around that.
00:15:18.29\00:15:20.26
But how many people do
exactly that same thing?
00:15:20.30\00:15:22.93
They have red flags that are
indicators that things are not
00:15:22.96\00:15:26.44
going well and they think the
wedding will change everything.
00:15:26.47\00:15:29.92
If we could just get
married, but I have seen couples
00:15:29.95\00:15:33.20
come into my office all the
time, nothing magical happens
00:15:33.24\00:15:36.45
in the wedding ceremony,
in fact if anything it will
00:15:36.48\00:15:39.41
actually exasperate,
intensify, magnify any issues
00:15:39.44\00:15:43.05
you had before and so
yeah, it is difficult to call
00:15:43.09\00:15:45.95
a wedding off a month
before the invitations are out,
00:15:45.98\00:15:49.34
but that is very small in
terms of difficulty to what
00:15:49.37\00:15:52.51
could've been had you
gone through something that God
00:15:52.55\00:15:55.02
just couldn't put His
blessing on, and neither of
00:15:55.05\00:15:57.69
you the way you talk
about it, it sounds very mutual.
00:15:57.72\00:16:00.28
It was very mutual and I praise
the we Lord had the clarity
00:16:00.32\00:16:04.53
that meets all the chaos
and confusion, we had the
00:16:04.57\00:16:07.32
clarity of thought to
just be strong and say no.
00:16:07.35\00:16:10.04
We each desire to be spiritually
united and there was no
00:16:10.07\00:16:13.22
way we could be united in
marriage and bring glory to God.
00:16:13.25\00:16:16.36
So when you guys decided
not to get married, was that
00:16:16.40\00:16:20.75
the date in the
relationship? - no way actually
00:16:20.78\00:16:23.24
separated by degrees,
initially remained engaged
00:16:23.28\00:16:25.92
We didn't set a date,
got rid of that wedding date.
00:16:25.96\00:16:27.99
- so it wasn't a cancellation
it was a postponement?
00:16:28.02\00:16:30.71
Yeah that was initially
the idea and then that still
00:16:30.75\00:16:33.45
seemed to be not really
working out so we got rid
00:16:33.49\00:16:36.13
of that pressure as well
and we weren't engage but still
00:16:36.16\00:16:39.42
in a relationship and eventually
we stripped that back to be
00:16:39.45\00:16:42.26
just friends and eventually
got to the point we realized
00:16:42.30\00:16:45.05
that our paths were going
different directions and it was
00:16:45.08\00:16:47.77
more profitable for each
of us to just say goodbye to
00:16:47.81\00:16:50.46
that chapter in
our lives and move on.
00:16:50.50\00:16:52.06
Now Josh at any time
did you question your faith?
00:16:52.09\00:16:54.82
Did you say I would like
to just give this up so I can
00:16:54.86\00:16:57.43
be with this girl?
00:16:57.47\00:16:58.94
No, no and I think that
resolve to put God first was
00:16:58.97\00:17:06.03
really the thing that
pulled each of us through.
00:17:06.06\00:17:08.72
And where did
that lead you then?
00:17:08.75\00:17:10.61
In the fallout from that
relationship I ended up, it's
00:17:10.65\00:17:14.28
a funny story actually, a
friend of mine, I was on tour
00:17:14.31\00:17:17.87
in Australia with the band
and a friend of mine have been
00:17:17.90\00:17:22.06
going to a series of meetings
in Sydney and she called
00:17:22.09\00:17:26.21
me up and said hey, come
with my friends and I tonight
00:17:26.25\00:17:29.20
we are going to see
this intelligent, articulate,
00:17:29.23\00:17:31.78
fast talking American guy.
00:17:31.82\00:17:33.26
It's really powerful. -
really they said those words?
00:17:33.29\00:17:38.21
Who could possibly mean?
00:17:38.25\00:17:40.05
Well I turned off at the
Sydney entertainment center
00:17:40.09\00:17:44.57
I think it was, and heard
David Asscherick speaking.
00:17:44.60\00:17:48.85
It profoundly impacted
me, it was a very partial
00:17:48.89\00:17:52.31
presentation and so
later on that year I knew -
00:17:52.34\00:17:55.13
did you come just once?
- I came twice actually.
00:17:55.17\00:17:57.89
You didn't come and talk
to me? No I didn't have time
00:17:57.93\00:18:02.02
because we were doing a show
straight after I actually missed
00:18:02.06\00:18:04.34
sound shake and set
right through the presentation
00:18:04.37\00:18:06.78
thinking we are
on in 20 minutes.
00:18:06.82\00:18:08.52
Were you doing a
show in that same venue?
00:18:08.56\00:18:11.54
No it was only a matter
blocks away so I managed
00:18:11.58\00:18:15.21
to get back in time and
my friend said where are you?
00:18:15.25\00:18:18.00
What's going on?
00:18:18.04\00:18:19.23
There's just a little
parenthetical statement here,
00:18:19.27\00:18:21.01
I didn't even know this
story until you end up coming to
00:18:21.04\00:18:24.45
Arise, we'll get to in
just a second, I think we served
00:18:24.49\00:18:27.15
one another in the foot
washing service. - that's right.
00:18:27.19\00:18:29.82
Isn't that right? - yeah.
00:18:29.85\00:18:30.89
So Josh how did you hear
about Arise up here in the
00:18:30.92\00:18:33.59
details in this story, you
are preaching in Australia and
00:18:33.62\00:18:36.04
that would have been
four months at that time.
00:18:36.07\00:18:38.79
So you just never
know how these providential
00:18:38.82\00:18:41.50
things are going to arrange.
00:18:41.53\00:18:43.77
So anyway you get the phone
call and we're going to go hear
00:18:43.80\00:18:45.87
this guy and - I'm
profoundly impacted by that.
00:18:45.91\00:18:48.49
Do you remember what
the presentations were?
00:18:48.52\00:18:51.03
It was apologetics, it was
Five Reasons Why I Don't Have
00:18:51.07\00:18:53.99
Enough Faith to Be an
Atheist. I think that was an
00:18:54.03\00:18:57.97
actually the other seventy-week
prophecy, it was just
00:18:58.00\00:19:01.91
beautiful and I just
heard God speaking to me.
00:19:01.95\00:19:04.39
And I began listening to a
lot of your sermons on audio
00:19:04.42\00:19:08.15
and such and then I knew
I was going to be in America
00:19:08.19\00:19:11.59
later on that year so I
checked online to see if I can
00:19:11.63\00:19:14.33
find your schedule, maybe
you would be speaking some
00:19:14.36\00:19:16.90
where I could go and hear
your talk again and I come
00:19:16.93\00:19:19.43
across your Arise
website and I really felt
00:19:19.47\00:19:21.16
God leading me there.
00:19:21.20\00:19:22.91
At this stage Laura and
I, - just a quick point of
00:19:22.95\00:19:26.35
clarification, Arise for
our viewers that don't know
00:19:26.39\00:19:30.51
is a school, a training
center that I happen to be the
00:19:30.55\00:19:34.63
director of and
Shandra works there as well,
00:19:34.67\00:19:36.97
works as a volunteer so
it is a training center.
00:19:37.00\00:19:39.27
Josh gets to the
training Center website
00:19:39.30\00:19:41.45
AriseInstitute.com by the
way and then what happens?
00:19:41.49\00:19:46.56
Well at this stage Laura
and I were just in the final
00:19:46.59\00:19:50.46
trial of trying to cling
on to something and I think
00:19:50.50\00:19:54.33
I went there with the intention
that perhaps I would be
00:19:54.37\00:19:58.17
able to learn more
about these things that I was
00:19:58.21\00:20:00.05
convicted of but still
needed to understand better.
00:20:00.08\00:20:02.99
Then I would be able to
share them with her and she may
00:20:03.02\00:20:05.89
see things the way I do.
00:20:05.93\00:20:07.56
Why did she want you to go?
00:20:07.59\00:20:09.16
She was probably hoping
that I was going to go there
00:20:09.19\00:20:11.95
and learn more about these
things and ultimately reject
00:20:11.99\00:20:14.71
some of the things we
have been in conflict on.
00:20:14.74\00:20:16.38
The opposite happened, as I got
there and started to learn and
00:20:16.42\00:20:20.11
experience that whole
faze of my life I really became
00:20:20.15\00:20:23.39
more deeply convicted about
it so it became apparent that
00:20:23.42\00:20:26.63
our lives were
going opposite directions.
00:20:26.66\00:20:28.72
- very different directions.
00:20:28.75\00:20:29.78
One of the most powerful
experiences I had at Arise,
00:20:29.81\00:20:32.59
because initially as you
may gather from what I just
00:20:32.63\00:20:35.35
shared I was going to
fill my head with knowledge.
00:20:35.39\00:20:38.04
I wanted a intellectual
theological understanding and I
00:20:38.07\00:20:41.66
knew that with out reach, with
knocking on doors and witnessing
00:20:41.69\00:20:43.72
was part of the deal but I
was actually terrified of it.
00:20:43.75\00:20:46.34
I was not cherishing
that prospect at all.
00:20:46.37\00:20:48.79
So I go there in spite of this.
00:20:48.83\00:20:51.66
What I found was the most
powerful experience actually
00:20:51.70\00:20:54.77
was getting out
there knocking on doors.
00:20:54.80\00:20:56.34
I recall one specific
incident were I was talking
00:20:56.37\00:20:59.37
to an elderly lady on
her doorstep and we have been
00:20:59.40\00:21:02.18
talking for maybe five
minutes and I had this feeling
00:21:02.21\00:21:04.85
of overwhelming sense of
love for this person whom
00:21:04.89\00:21:07.46
I had met five minutes earlier,
and I remember the thought
00:21:07.50\00:21:10.80
crossing my mind I didn't
feel anything this powerful
00:21:10.84\00:21:14.10
for a person I was
just about to marry.
00:21:14.13\00:21:16.92
This feeling of knowledge? He
filled my heart with what love
00:21:16.95\00:21:22.53
really is. - which is the love
of God. - Yeah the love of God.
00:21:22.56\00:21:28.11
So you went for intellectual
knowledge, or intellectual
00:21:28.14\00:21:31.83
reasons and it ends up
with being an experience with
00:21:31.86\00:21:35.48
Ministry, that has come up
Shandra over and over again in
00:21:35.51\00:21:38.55
this program that peoples
conversions is often directly
00:21:38.58\00:21:41.58
rooted in their
ministering to other people.
00:21:41.62\00:21:45.48
So you realize that the
love of God is an absolutely
00:21:45.52\00:21:49.64
essential element in your
own life, but then later you
00:21:49.68\00:21:52.68
have the opportunity, of
course you are realizing this
00:21:52.71\00:21:55.68
that the love of God
has to be central to any
00:21:55.71\00:21:57.62
relationship that
you might have as well.
00:21:57.65\00:21:59.49
Sort of talk about that a
little bit and that will set
00:21:59.53\00:22:03.13
up a song I think
you're going to sing.
00:22:03.17\00:22:05.42
I guess what I came to
realize about love, and the kind
00:22:05.46\00:22:09.21
of love that has to exist
in relationships is that it is
00:22:09.24\00:22:12.95
the love of God.
It is God's love.
00:22:12.99\00:22:14.74
Jesus made the statement as
I have loved you go and love
00:22:14.78\00:22:18.13
other people. When we look at
the way Jesus loved the example
00:22:18.16\00:22:20.93
He set in the Bible, it
is a selfless giving love.
00:22:20.96\00:22:24.27
It's love, the kind of
love that inspires people into
00:22:24.31\00:22:28.01
Ministry to sharing Jesus
with others and I realized that
00:22:28.04\00:22:31.71
I didn't really
know what that was about.
00:22:31.75\00:22:33.30
I was loving and a more
selfish way on this horizontal
00:22:33.33\00:22:35.54
level but it
needed the vertical.
00:22:35.58\00:22:37.77
The love you only have when
you got that vertical connection
00:22:37.80\00:22:41.35
with God and I realized to that
marriage, the purpose why God
00:22:41.38\00:22:44.90
brings people together
is not just so they can live
00:22:44.93\00:22:47.54
happily ever after, is to
be obtained to witness and
00:22:47.58\00:22:50.97
share His love with others
and I thought to myself how
00:22:51.00\00:22:54.22
could, in the context of
the relationship I was in,
00:22:54.26\00:22:56.97
how can we possibly do
that when we couldn't even agree
00:22:57.01\00:22:59.69
ourselves on the
Spirit foundation.
00:22:59.73\00:23:02.84
Amos 3:3 says can to walk
together unless they agree.
00:23:02.88\00:23:05.95
Well we couldn't even
agree on the very fundamental
00:23:05.99\00:23:08.47
thing that our relationship
needed to be rooted in.
00:23:08.51\00:23:10.96
That is powerful
Josh. Then also I was
00:23:11.00\00:23:14.23
contemplating another verse
of Scripture, Ecclesiastes 4:12
00:23:14.26\00:23:18.14
where it says threefold
cord is not easily broken.
00:23:18.17\00:23:21.17
I was thinking of this in
the context of husband and wife
00:23:21.21\00:23:23.94
that is just a twofold
cord can be snapped easily.
00:23:23.98\00:23:27.71
But when you put God in
there as well, that is a strong
00:23:27.75\00:23:31.59
union and it was on the basis
of that, that I was inspired
00:23:31.62\00:23:35.43
to write a song on that theme.
00:23:35.46\00:23:37.37
I wrote it for some friends
of mine and I got married
00:23:37.41\00:23:38.98
who were very good
examples of that godly
00:23:39.01\00:23:41.48
type of union,
godly type of marriage.
00:23:41.51\00:23:43.57
- Amen are you going
to sing as that song?
00:23:43.61\00:23:46.18
I am, it's called
song for Sam and Katie.
00:23:46.22\00:23:48.75
I can't wait I love this song.
00:23:48.79\00:23:50.34
Even though it is specifically
for them it is for all
00:23:50.37\00:23:52.54
Christian people who
are planning on marriage.
00:23:52.57\00:23:55.13
This is the key
ingredient in God's love.
00:23:55.16\00:23:56.97
Follow your
heart is what they say
00:24:08.79\00:24:10.88
I know that if I do
00:24:10.92\00:24:12.82
I've been following
something I can't know
00:24:12.86\00:24:16.19
deceitful and a untrue
00:24:16.23\00:24:19.12
I couldn't love you if I tried
00:24:19.15\00:24:21.88
couldn't find a way
00:24:21.92\00:24:24.34
unless my heart is led
by God I only go astray.
00:24:24.37\00:24:29.24
If you want to be
one heart one flesh
00:24:31.16\00:24:34.43
one instead of two
00:24:34.47\00:24:36.77
it's got the three chords
woven, God and me and you.
00:24:36.80\00:24:42.37
If our hearts burn within
us with a fire that consumes
00:24:42.40\00:24:47.93
only then can we say I love you.
00:24:47.97\00:24:52.48
God is love He gives to
us a priceless gift that real
00:24:54.17\00:24:59.08
He gave Himself He
gave His own unconditionally
00:24:59.12\00:25:04.30
I want to love you like He
does Lord, give me eyes to see.
00:25:04.34\00:25:10.15
The only way I can is
if You live inside of me.
00:25:10.19\00:25:15.68
We wanna be one heart,
one flesh, one instead of two.
00:25:16.66\00:25:22.45
It's got to be three chords
woven, God and me and you.
00:25:22.48\00:25:27.98
If our hearts burn within
us with a fire that consumes
00:25:28.01\00:25:33.47
only then can we say I love you.
00:25:33.51\00:25:38.60
Well love this
kind, love never fails
00:25:42.40\00:25:44.33
it ain't
boastful or proud or rude
00:25:44.37\00:25:46.86
it bears all
things, believes all things
00:25:46.89\00:25:49.69
rejoices in the truth
00:25:49.73\00:25:52.14
love will never seek her
own, loves patient, love endures
00:25:52.18\00:25:57.56
if we want a love like
that it's what we'll have to do
00:25:57.59\00:26:02.94
if you want to be
one heart one flesh
00:26:02.97\00:26:07.61
one instead of two
00:26:07.65\00:26:10.01
it's got to be three
chords woven, God me and you
00:26:10.05\00:26:15.60
if our hearts burn within
us with a fire that consumes
00:26:15.64\00:26:21.25
only then can we say I love you
00:26:21.28\00:26:26.16
because the love of
God is the only love,
00:26:26.20\00:26:29.49
the only love that's true
00:26:29.52\00:26:31.91
the love of God
is the only love,
00:26:31.95\00:26:34.89
the only love that's true
00:26:34.93\00:26:37.67
the love of God
is the only love,
00:26:37.70\00:26:40.33
the only love that's true
00:26:40.37\00:26:43.27
the love of God is
the only love that's true
00:26:43.30\00:26:47.67
it's a love that
binds us, binds us tightly,
00:26:47.71\00:26:52.04
is stronger than the grave
00:26:52.07\00:26:54.49
God has joined together
now, let no one separate
00:26:54.53\00:26:59.70
this love is
forever, it's for eternity
00:26:59.73\00:27:04.67
is the wellspring of our love
00:27:04.71\00:27:07.65
it is the one who
is and was and will be
00:27:07.68\00:27:10.59
and if we want to
be one heart one flesh
00:27:17.29\00:27:20.66
one instead of two
00:27:20.70\00:27:22.59
there's got to be three
chords woven, God and me and you
00:27:22.63\00:27:28.56
if our hearts burn within
us with a fire that consumes
00:27:28.60\00:27:34.50
only then can we say I love you
00:27:34.53\00:27:39.20
because the love of God
is the only love that's true
00:27:39.23\00:27:44.87
and I love you
with a love that's true
00:27:44.90\00:27:50.61
- Amen! - Amen thank you so much
00:27:56.28\00:27:57.75
Josh that was
absolutely beautiful.
00:27:57.79\00:27:59.61
And thank you
for joining us today.
00:27:59.64\00:28:01.43