British journalist and
convert to Christianity Malcolm
00:00:21.25\00:00:24.64
Muggeridge in his 1972 book
Jesus Rediscovered wrote these
00:00:24.68\00:00:28.45
insightful words, he said,
"I may I suppose regard myself
00:00:28.49\00:00:32.58
"as a relatively successful
man. People occasionally stare
00:00:32.62\00:00:36.68
"at me in the streets
and that is called fame.
00:00:36.71\00:00:39.11
"I can fairly easily earn
enough money to qualify for
00:00:39.15\00:00:41.91
"admission to the higher
slopes of the Internal Revenue
00:00:41.95\00:00:44.68
"Service and that
is called success.
00:00:44.71\00:00:46.94
"Furnished with money and a
little fame, even the elderly,
00:00:46.98\00:00:49.70
"if they care to, may
partake of friendly diversions
00:00:49.73\00:00:52.64
"and that is called pleasure.
00:00:52.68\00:00:54.41
"It might happen once or
while that's something I said or
00:00:54.44\00:00:57.51
"wrote was sufficiently
heated for me to persuade myself
00:00:57.54\00:01:00.58
"that it represented a
serious impact on our time
00:01:00.61\00:01:03.32
"and that is called fulfillment.
00:01:03.36\00:01:05.49
"Yet I say to you, and beg
you to believe me, multiply
00:01:05.52\00:01:09.82
"these tiny triumphs by
millions and add them all up
00:01:09.85\00:01:13.53
"together and they are
nothing, less than nothing,
00:01:13.56\00:01:17.05
"indeed a positive
impediment measured against
00:01:17.09\00:01:20.49
"one drop of that
living water that Christ offers
00:01:20.52\00:01:24.03
"to the spiritually
thirsty irrespective of who
00:01:24.06\00:01:27.54
"or what they are."
00:01:27.57\00:01:28.93
There is a story that is
told about a young man who was
00:01:28.97\00:01:32.27
eating an orange
for the first time.
00:01:32.30\00:01:34.34
The person that had given
him the orange said have you
00:01:34.37\00:01:37.26
ever had one of these, this
was back in depression times,
00:01:37.30\00:01:39.56
and the man said though I
have never seen one of those.
00:01:39.59\00:01:42.12
He began to eat it and they
were talking and looking out
00:01:42.16\00:01:44.65
and as they were
sitting there the young man was
00:01:44.69\00:01:47.06
commenting all this is
so good, this is so good.
00:01:47.10\00:01:49.40
The gentleman who ate given
the orange to the young man
00:01:49.43\00:01:51.47
looked down and said
oh you think that is good?
00:01:51.50\00:01:53.85
Wait until you
eat the inside part.
00:01:53.89\00:01:56.01
Sometimes we are live in
our life on the verge of what
00:01:56.04\00:02:00.15
God has in store for us.
00:02:00.18\00:02:01.30
We have settled for something
else, as Malcolm Muggeridge
00:02:01.34\00:02:04.23
talks about something else, fame
success, money, today I want to
00:02:04.26\00:02:08.33
introduce you to our guest
and I want you to enter into
00:02:08.37\00:02:13.31
an experience with us
today on the Engage program.
00:02:13.35\00:02:15.81
My name is David Asscherick
and this is our co-host,
00:02:15.85\00:02:18.47
my co-host Shandra Ban and
we want to introduce you to
00:02:18.50\00:02:21.18
our good friend Joshua
Cunningham who's going to talk
00:02:21.21\00:02:23.50
to us about not just eating
on the outside of the orange,
00:02:23.54\00:02:26.19
but the inside as well.
00:02:26.23\00:02:27.20
Thank you David, Josh we
are so glad to have you on the
00:02:27.21\00:02:30.73
show today. Josh comes
from New South Wales Australia,
00:02:30.77\00:02:34.27
but he is currently
living in Sonora California.
00:02:34.30\00:02:36.72
Josh what is it
that you do? Who are you?
00:02:36.75\00:02:38.98
Tell us your story.
00:02:39.01\00:02:39.98
Well at the moment I'm
living in Sonora and doing Bible
00:02:40.01\00:02:42.99
work which is basically it
means that I'm going to the
00:02:43.02\00:02:45.32
community and finding
people who are interested in
00:02:45.35\00:02:48.06
learning about the Bible
and I am studying with them.
00:02:48.09\00:02:49.88
It is very different like
the one I was living not so many
00:02:49.91\00:02:53.09
years ago, much of my adult
life I have been a member of
00:02:53.12\00:02:57.02
a successful Australian
band and spent most of that time
00:02:57.05\00:03:01.19
touring and making records,
play music and living a life
00:03:01.22\00:03:04.44
that I guess many people
would consider a bit of a dream.
00:03:04.47\00:03:06.67
Right, hmmm, hmmm so
that is quite the transition
00:03:06.70\00:03:09.89
so let's unpack it.
00:03:09.92\00:03:12.02
So your Australian obviously
the accent gives it away.
00:03:12.05\00:03:15.34
You were raised in Christian
context or a religious home?
00:03:15.37\00:03:21.30
Yeah I was raised in a
Christian home, and Adventist
00:03:21.33\00:03:24.48
Christian home and then when
it was 10 years old my family
00:03:24.51\00:03:28.38
actually left the
church for a time.
00:03:28.41\00:03:30.02
As a 10-year-old that was no
problem for me and I actually
00:03:30.05\00:03:34.84
rejoiced over that fact because
church was something that
00:03:34.87\00:03:37.30
I was forced to attend.
00:03:37.33\00:03:39.31
I didn't have a personal
relationship with Jesus.
00:03:39.34\00:03:41.53
I used to resent the fact
that I had to go and that this
00:03:41.56\00:03:45.66
religious thing
was part of my life.
00:03:45.69\00:03:47.71
- you told us that you equated
church with a certain piece
00:03:47.74\00:03:52.64
of clothing, what was that?
00:03:52.67\00:03:54.40
Well I guess live in a
family that didn't have a great
00:03:54.43\00:03:58.54
deal of money you receive
hand-me-downs and my brothers
00:03:58.57\00:04:01.29
hence got handed down to
me. And as I grew up and they
00:04:01.32\00:04:07.05
would ride higher and
higher up my leg and more
00:04:07.08\00:04:09.72
my shin would be exposed.
00:04:09.75\00:04:11.29
Then they were
getting less each year.
00:04:11.32\00:04:12.96
So your association with church
is Heh lets go to church it's
00:04:12.99\00:04:16.36
Sabbath and you were like
oh short itchy woolen pants.
00:04:16.39\00:04:19.17
Yeah, yeah that's pretty
much the extent of it so you can
00:04:19.20\00:04:21.63
imagine when my family left
the church I was quite happy
00:04:21.66\00:04:25.47
about that and no more
woolen pants and now I could go
00:04:25.50\00:04:27.28
skateboarding with my
friends on Saturday morning.
00:04:27.31\00:04:30.12
- you were skateboarder? - yeah.
00:04:30.15\00:04:31.90
Did I know that? - you did.
00:04:31.93\00:04:33.48
- it's nice to know it again.
00:04:33.51\00:04:35.04
Yeah so I kind of drifted
off into my teenage years,
00:04:37.12\00:04:39.55
departed from
whatever association I had
00:04:39.58\00:04:43.69
with Christianity, with God.
00:04:43.72\00:04:45.95
I basically start living a
life that most teenagers do.
00:04:45.98\00:04:48.74
I got mixed up in trouble,
wrong things and the one thing
00:04:48.77\00:04:52.10
I did it mixed up in was music.
00:04:52.13\00:04:54.61
It began playing the guitar
when I was 13 years of age.
00:04:54.64\00:04:58.11
and this was a real
great blessing for me,
00:04:58.14\00:05:01.73
I got totally focused on it.
00:05:01.76\00:05:03.57
I devoted all my time to it
and began playing in rock 'n
00:05:03.60\00:05:08.25
roll bands. - at 13?
00:05:08.28\00:05:09.97
I actually was playing in
establishments I was legally not
00:05:10.00\00:05:13.40
to old enough to enter but
for some reason I got a gig in
00:05:13.43\00:05:18.38
a band and began playing in
bars playing rock 'n roll music
00:05:18.41\00:05:21.02
with an electric guitar.
00:05:21.05\00:05:22.56
Now Josh I don't know if
I've ever asked you this before
00:05:22.59\00:05:24.36
how did you come
by your first guitar?
00:05:24.39\00:05:27.81
I was much younger my parents,
my whole family in fact,
00:05:27.84\00:05:34.22
my brother and sister
also they began getting guitar
00:05:34.25\00:05:36.49
lessons and I was so
small that a guitar was just too
00:05:36.52\00:05:39.16
big for me so
they got me ukulele.
00:05:39.19\00:05:41.11
So that amused me for time
and eventually we moved away
00:05:41.14\00:05:46.26
from where the guitar
teacher and ukulele teacher was.
00:05:46.29\00:05:49.53
I lost interest in it but
as a 13-year-old I actually
00:05:49.56\00:05:55.04
saw the movie Back To the
Future and there is a scene
00:05:55.07\00:05:57.72
where this guy plays
guitar and it looks pretty cool
00:05:57.75\00:06:00.42
to a 13-year-old kid.
00:06:00.45\00:06:01.81
So did the skateboarding
and it was a part of that.
00:06:01.84\00:06:03.60
That was a part
of the movie is well.
00:06:03.63\00:06:05.10
So I thought that's what
I want to do and I went and
00:06:05.13\00:06:07.81
found the guitar that
my parents had been using
00:06:07.84\00:06:10.42
so many years
before in the closet and
00:06:10.45\00:06:12.73
I started messing around on it
and teaching myself basically.
00:06:12.76\00:06:17.34
I lived in a rural area
away from town so I had to
00:06:17.37\00:06:21.59
find something to keep
myself occupied and amused and
00:06:21.62\00:06:24.48
the guitar was that
something you turned out to be.
00:06:24.51\00:06:26.84
Some you must have picked
it up, it must also can pretty
00:06:26.87\00:06:29.24
naturally? Yet did
it really spoke to me.
00:06:29.27\00:06:32.95
I remember
strumming the first chord.
00:06:32.98\00:06:36.22
Again this strains of
these cords were old and black
00:06:36.25\00:06:38.82
and those were the
sweetest sounds I never heard.
00:06:38.85\00:06:41.61
I remember having an instant
love of the guitar and of
00:06:41.64\00:06:45.58
music. - so playing in
these bands and how long did
00:06:45.61\00:06:48.85
you stay in the
band that you started in?
00:06:48.88\00:06:51.74
Well actually got to the
end of high school, I was in
00:06:51.77\00:06:55.07
that band were several bands
during my high school years.
00:06:55.10\00:06:57.60
At the end of high school
I had been told that music
00:06:57.63\00:07:02.46
it's a hobby that you can do
and there is no future in it.
00:07:02.49\00:07:06.33
You need to go to
university and get qualified in
00:07:06.36\00:07:08.25
something, be responsible.
- your parents told you this?
00:07:08.28\00:07:12.89
Not my parents so much
but we had a career advisor,
00:07:12.92\00:07:16.63
and is one of the staff at
the school so they would get
00:07:16.66\00:07:20.00
together with the students
and advise them of the best
00:07:20.03\00:07:22.71
direction for them to go into.
00:07:22.74\00:07:24.13
So economics was what was
suggested to me and my best
00:07:24.16\00:07:27.34
direction to head in.
00:07:27.37\00:07:28.83
So I applied for a degree,
it position the University to
00:07:28.86\00:07:34.23
study economics
and got accepted.
00:07:34.26\00:07:36.36
But then I thought
while I love this music thing.
00:07:36.39\00:07:38.57
I had the opportunity to
take a year off and go traveling
00:07:38.60\00:07:41.40
with a band I was
in at the time but
00:07:41.43\00:07:43.06
I'll take that and get it
out of my system and come back
00:07:43.09\00:07:46.78
and become the economists.
00:07:46.81\00:07:49.00
An economist do
the responsible thing.
00:07:49.03\00:07:50.83
Yeah it was in June that
year that I met two sisters who
00:07:50.86\00:07:55.27
I ultimately formed a band
with and that was 18 years ago.
00:07:55.30\00:08:01.27
So that began the story of
my whole journey that led to
00:08:01.30\00:08:09.28
success, multiplatinum selling
albums, music awards and as
00:08:09.31\00:08:16.43
I mentioned earlier, just
living the lifestyle that a lot
00:08:16.46\00:08:18.77
of people would look
at and be very envious of.
00:08:18.80\00:08:21.07
This just a dream I
would love to do it.
00:08:21.10\00:08:22.74
So it is a bit of a whirl
wind from the time that you pick
00:08:22.77\00:08:25.70
up the guitar
and an earnest at 13.
00:08:25.73\00:08:27.89
Shortly thereafter you
are already playing in bars
00:08:27.92\00:08:31.49
I suppose or these kinds
of establishments. - yeah now.
00:08:31.52\00:08:34.08
By the time you're 18 or 19
you go on his first tour and
00:08:34.11\00:08:38.06
this is where you meet
the two girls? - yes, yes.
00:08:38.09\00:08:39.49
So that is pretty
quick, snap, snap.
00:08:39.52\00:08:43.19
That is kind of the way
the journey has been ever since
00:08:43.22\00:08:46.88
then as well, I mean it is
interesting when I met up with
00:08:46.91\00:08:49.38
the two sisters we really
never had any ambition to even
00:08:49.41\00:08:54.15
record music, we were
playing other people's songs.
00:08:54.18\00:08:58.12
We were a bunch of kids
traveling around our country.
00:08:58.15\00:08:59.95
- they were musicians as
well? Yeah they were a just
00:08:59.98\00:09:03.19
playing in the same kind
of establishments that I was
00:09:03.22\00:09:05.54
playing and music was more
or less a way to travel and see
00:09:05.57\00:09:09.71
the country without
having to work picking fruit or
00:09:09.74\00:09:12.12
whatever that people who
bound around the country do.
00:09:12.15\00:09:14.89
That's the way it was for
us and as time went on people
00:09:14.92\00:09:18.99
were coming to watch us
play and encouraging us to write
00:09:19.02\00:09:22.15
music so we
began to write music.
00:09:22.18\00:09:23.50
Things just evolved one
thing after another without any
00:09:23.53\00:09:26.35
real, we weren't steering
in any one direction we were
00:09:26.38\00:09:30.81
just following the journey,
the path where ever it lead.
00:09:30.84\00:09:32.75
So you start a band with
them and in some point you start
00:09:32.78\00:09:38.22
to write your own
music, not just plain covers.
00:09:38.25\00:09:40.57
Do you have a name, does
the band have a name at this
00:09:40.60\00:09:43.68
point? Or how does
the ban acquire it's name?
00:09:43.71\00:09:45.55
The name by the way
is The Waifs. W A I F S.
00:09:45.58\00:09:51.74
The Waifs, by the
way what is a waif?
00:09:51.77\00:09:53.89
A Waif is actually a
homeless child back in the
00:09:53.92\00:09:57.06
15th 16th century in England.
00:09:57.09\00:10:01.19
There were street urchins
that lived on the streets.
00:10:01.22\00:10:04.18
- like Oliver Twist. -
yeah like Oliver Twist.
00:10:04.21\00:10:06.14
homeless, underfed, malnourished
just ragged looking.
00:10:06.17\00:10:10.75
We have been traveling
around the country living in a
00:10:10.78\00:10:12.34
camper van and on our
way around we stopped to here
00:10:12.37\00:10:15.34
and visited my
grandmother and she was
00:10:15.37\00:10:16.74
horrified at my appearance.
00:10:16.77\00:10:17.95
Josh, you're a waif and
then we made it all the way back
00:10:17.98\00:10:22.79
around two were the girls
lived in Western Australia and
00:10:22.82\00:10:25.66
their grandmother said all
my little waifs have come home.
00:10:25.69\00:10:29.29
Then there are other grandmother
use the same term to them
00:10:29.32\00:10:31.84
so we thought, we didn't
even know what a waif was.
00:10:31.87\00:10:34.54
This was not like a term
that was in common parlors,
00:10:34.57\00:10:37.24
you didn't know that? - no.
00:10:37.27\00:10:38.49
So we looked it up and
figured out what it meant and
00:10:38.52\00:10:42.06
thought it kind of describes
the way we looked in our
00:10:42.09\00:10:44.17
itinerant and our lifestyle
and maybe this is meant to be.
00:10:44.20\00:10:49.25
This is our new name.
00:10:49.28\00:10:50.38
So many years later it
didn't really apply because
00:10:50.41\00:10:53.69
we weren't really waifs anymore.
00:10:53.72\00:10:55.02
You don't look very waifish
today, but I suppose opinions
00:10:55.05\00:10:59.25
will differ. -
where you outgrow a name
00:10:59.28\00:11:01.77
but it sticks with you.
00:11:01.80\00:11:02.87
So you start this band and
you are The Waifs and now you
00:11:02.90\00:11:06.15
are traveling around Australia
and did your popularity
00:11:06.18\00:11:09.71
just explode or was
it a little more organic.
00:11:09.74\00:11:13.08
It was more organic,
it just evolved gradually.
00:11:13.11\00:11:15.26
As I mentioned people
encourage just write music and
00:11:15.29\00:11:18.45
we had enough songs to make
a record so we made an album.
00:11:18.48\00:11:20.71
We began selling it at our
own shows and then a few years
00:11:20.74\00:11:26.04
later a guy was interested
in managing us and that led to
00:11:26.07\00:11:29.74
the release of a
single which was very popular.
00:11:29.77\00:11:32.67
That album sold in a
triple platinum and we won four
00:11:32.70\00:11:37.43
Aria awards that year, -
like the Grammy awards? Yeah.
00:11:37.46\00:11:42.49
So things blew up without our
being really ambitious for that.
00:11:42.52\00:11:48.40
So is just a
natural organic progression,
00:11:48.43\00:11:52.14
but it's certainly was a
very interesting journey,
00:11:52.17\00:11:56.48
a very interesting ride.
00:11:56.51\00:11:57.64
As I mentioned it is the
kind of life that people really
00:11:57.67\00:12:01.31
glamorize or idolize, they
think it's a fantastic thing
00:12:01.34\00:12:05.75
they've always dreamed of.
00:12:05.78\00:12:07.31
Basically a music star. -
yeah, yeah I think the term rock
00:12:07.34\00:12:10.83
stars were entirely came from.
00:12:10.86\00:12:13.43
Rock stars were not the
term but you were music star?
00:12:13.46\00:12:16.66
- yeah. - but you were
famous, I had gone to see
00:12:16.69\00:12:20.35
you in concert here and
even here hundreds and I suppose
00:12:20.38\00:12:25.28
sometimes thousands of
people come out to see you.
00:12:25.31\00:12:28.51
So within the culture
within the music culture
00:12:28.54\00:12:31.14
you are known, even
here in the states people
00:12:31.17\00:12:33.52
know who Josh Cunningham
is? Well we're more widespread
00:12:33.55\00:12:37.46
in Australia, certainly
in America there are certain.
00:12:37.49\00:12:40.17
- so did you eventually
start touring in America then?
00:12:40.20\00:12:42.24
Yes we spent a lot of
time over here actually.
00:12:42.27\00:12:44.94
This is an interesting
part of the story because my
00:12:44.97\00:12:49.51
parents, I mentioned my family
left the church when I was
00:12:49.54\00:12:51.57
a 10-year-old, eventually
they went back. - back to the
00:12:51.60\00:12:56.25
church? - back to the
church and they had been praying
00:12:56.28\00:13:01.35
not only for myself but
my brother and sister as well
00:13:01.38\00:13:03.13
who had a
similar experience to me.
00:13:03.16\00:13:05.80
Once we didn't have to be
in church we were fantastically
00:13:05.83\00:13:09.46
free so mom and dad were
praying for all of their three
00:13:09.49\00:13:12.45
children, specifically
me as I was traveling around
00:13:12.48\00:13:15.21
America and
doing this music thing.
00:13:15.24\00:13:17.67
They were up praying that
God would lead people into my
00:13:17.70\00:13:20.23
path that would witness to
me and would draw me into a
00:13:20.26\00:13:22.91
relationship with Him, and
that is exactly what happened.
00:13:22.94\00:13:28.19
people after the shows,
and in random situations at the
00:13:28.22\00:13:32.48
beginning that conversations
about God people were given
00:13:32.51\00:13:36.85
me books to read, and I just
had this growing interest in
00:13:36.89\00:13:40.62
spiritual things and not to
mention the age that I was at.
00:13:40.65\00:13:44.37
When you get to the point in
your early 30s and you start,
00:13:44.40\00:13:48.00
your life is not all about
traveling around playing music
00:13:48.03\00:13:51.60
and having a good time.
00:13:51.63\00:13:52.98
The fulfillments I had
the satisfaction I had enjoyed
00:13:53.02\00:13:56.47
doing that was suddenly
start to wane a little bit.
00:13:56.51\00:13:59.93
I was feeling
that this was empty,
00:13:59.96\00:14:02.45
there must be more than this.
00:14:02.49\00:14:04.00
So around that time when
you started feeling this and
00:14:04.04\00:14:06.40
your parents are praying
send someone into his path and
00:14:06.44\00:14:08.77
someone did come
into your path right?
00:14:08.81\00:14:11.13
Tell us a little bit about that?
00:14:11.17\00:14:12.71
Well as I mentioned there
were many people, there was
00:14:12.74\00:14:16.96
one person in particular
I guess when I met this girl
00:14:17.00\00:14:20.54
I realized at that point
in time it was no accident.
00:14:20.58\00:14:24.01
God was actually putting
people specifically in my path.
00:14:24.04\00:14:27.07
He was trying to draw me
into a relationship with Him and
00:14:27.11\00:14:30.10
I met a girl on Thanksgiving
of 2005 on an airplane,
00:14:30.14\00:14:34.73
of all places, and
I realized through the
00:14:34.77\00:14:38.03
circumstances about meeting
and our conversation I knew
00:14:38.06\00:14:40.97
that God was trying to
reach me through this person.
00:14:41.01\00:14:43.88
She ended up sort of
witnessing to you eh?
00:14:43.92\00:14:47.53
it was her witness to me
that really made me aware of the
00:14:47.56\00:14:49.88
fact that God was
really trying to reach me.
00:14:49.92\00:14:51.49
I remember getting to my
hotel at night and kneeling down
00:14:51.53\00:14:55.72
and praying. - that
night after you met her?
00:14:55.75\00:14:57.35
Yeah, praying for the first
time since I was a little kid
00:14:57.38\00:14:59.74
having to say my
prayers before it went to bed.
00:14:59.77\00:15:02.48
I just knelt and
asked Jesus into my heart.
00:15:02.52\00:15:05.15
Not only did I have this
awareness that God was trying to
00:15:05.19\00:15:10.20
reach me, but certain
other events and decisions and
00:15:10.24\00:15:13.68
things I have been involved
with and was proud of had
00:15:13.71\00:15:16.97
brought me to a point
where I had been broken, my own
00:15:17.00\00:15:20.22
brokenness and God's love.
00:15:20.26\00:15:23.13
So there's a conversion
with a lot of things here.
00:15:23.17\00:15:25.48
Parents are praying, you
meet someone that witnesses to
00:15:25.51\00:15:28.62
you, you're experiencing an
increase dissatisfaction with
00:15:28.66\00:15:32.45
the lifestyle, plus brokenness,
it's like a perfect storm?
00:15:32.48\00:15:36.23
Yes I guess there were a
lot of convergence of the
00:15:36.27\00:15:38.58
elements but to me the key
ingredient in the whole story
00:15:38.62\00:15:41.62
was my parents, at least
10 years they were praying
00:15:41.65\00:15:47.43
faithfully and they were
seeing their son indulging in a
00:15:47.47\00:15:51.24
lifestyle that
was apart from God.
00:15:51.28\00:15:52.90
You can imagine the heart
of a parent and their greatest
00:15:52.93\00:15:56.52
desire would be to see their
children saved and they were
00:15:56.56\00:15:59.90
faithfully in prayer and God
was faithful to those prayers
00:15:59.94\00:16:02.86
and He answered them by
sending the right people into my
00:16:02.89\00:16:06.12
path and then I guess the
story also accommodates in my
00:16:06.15\00:16:09.85
own prayer kneeling there
by my bed and praying for the
00:16:09.88\00:16:13.54
first time in years.
00:16:13.57\00:16:15.24
It's just a testament
to me the power of prayer.
00:16:15.28\00:16:17.61
So you just mentioned again
that you have that prayer in
00:16:17.64\00:16:20.58
your hotel room that
night, what happened next?
00:16:20.62\00:16:22.43
It was a radical transformation.
00:16:22.47\00:16:24.78
I just remember the next
day, I was traveling around on a
00:16:24.82\00:16:27.28
tour bus during
shows through America.
00:16:27.32\00:16:29.74
There is a lot of
wasted time, a lot of down time
00:16:29.77\00:16:32.86
when you're sitting on a
bus and watching TV, you're
00:16:32.90\00:16:36.15
having conversations
about nothing at all really and
00:16:36.19\00:16:39.37
I just remember the next
day we were on the bus traveling
00:16:39.40\00:16:42.69
away again and I had no
interest in those things.
00:16:42.72\00:16:45.46
I couldn't actually sit
there. - just like that?
00:16:45.50\00:16:48.17
Yes it was an innocent
thing, I couldn't sit there and
00:16:48.20\00:16:50.39
just indulge in those convers-
ations, can be watching that
00:16:50.43\00:16:52.71
stuff it was all empty, all
I wanted to do was to crawl in
00:16:52.74\00:16:54.98
my bunk and pray
and read my Bible.
00:16:55.02\00:16:57.17
So did you? - yeah. - so
what did your band members
00:16:57.20\00:17:00.13
think? Do they think oh
crazy Josh what came over him?
00:17:00.16\00:17:03.89
Yeah I shared with them
what had happened, yeah I shared
00:17:03.92\00:17:07.62
what happen for sure with them.
00:17:07.65\00:17:10.27
I remember telling them,
because I have this overwhelming
00:17:10.30\00:17:12.72
sense of love for them I
remember saying I love you guys.
00:17:12.75\00:17:15.13
- I could see that,
that is not hard to imagine
00:17:16.96\00:17:18.81
I could see it, praise God.
00:17:18.85\00:17:20.29
I think they were touched
but they were oh that's weird.
00:17:20.32\00:17:22.97
So yeah I guess my life
it just turned in a 180° in
00:17:25.93\00:17:29.62
a different direction and
I continued on playing music,
00:17:29.66\00:17:33.01
because as you can imagine
these people are like family
00:17:33.04\00:17:36.10
to me. - right because 18
years you were in this band.
00:17:36.14\00:17:40.55
Yeah, but obviously some
changes took place, the aspects
00:17:40.58\00:17:44.53
of my faith had to be respected
in the context of the band
00:17:44.57\00:17:48.26
and its activities and so
that has been an ongoing story.
00:17:48.29\00:17:51.95
Then they were
respectful, it was like hey
00:17:51.99\00:17:53.53
we love you too, it was family.
00:17:53.57\00:17:55.36
So Josh you, when you invited
Christ into your heart again
00:17:55.39\00:17:59.29
did you go back to studying
out Seventh-day Adventism
00:17:59.32\00:18:02.73
because that is what
you have been raised in?
00:18:02.77\00:18:04.20
Or how did that work?
00:18:04.24\00:18:05.53
I guess that was my default
setting, I began going to
00:18:05.56\00:18:08.68
church, the Church as I
was seeking out were Adventist
00:18:08.71\00:18:11.79
churches but I will go
to other churches as well.
00:18:11.83\00:18:15.39
I would sometimes go
Sabbath and on Sundays also.
00:18:15.42\00:18:18.47
I just had a hunger for
it, I couldn't get enough.
00:18:18.50\00:18:21.48
I had a tendency to try to
avoid going back to Adventism.
00:18:21.52\00:18:27.32
I had a desire to be a
Christian and that was enough.
00:18:27.35\00:18:31.67
It didn't really matter
what flavor of Christian I was
00:18:31.71\00:18:36.34
and I guess because being
an Adventist can place the
00:18:36.38\00:18:40.94
significant demands and changes
on your lifestyle and when
00:18:40.98\00:18:44.31
you are playing in a band
on Friday night and Saturday
00:18:44.35\00:18:47.65
these are the big
nights to be doing shows.
00:18:47.69\00:18:49.83
I think I probably shied
away going too deep into that
00:18:49.87\00:18:54.01
because I didn't want
to interrupt and disrupt
00:18:54.04\00:18:57.30
my lifestyle too much.
00:18:57.34\00:18:58.61
But as my story
continued on I became
00:18:58.64\00:19:01.37
convicted of those things.
00:19:01.41\00:19:02.68
Now I want to sort of ask
a question here that is on
00:19:02.71\00:19:05.61
the same lines but a little
different and that is you are
00:19:05.64\00:19:08.66
making this transition from
a lifestyle, rubbing shoulders
00:19:08.69\00:19:11.52
with famous people, I mean
you are a famous person so to
00:19:11.55\00:19:14.96
speak, in your culture
and you must as seen a lot of
00:19:15.00\00:19:18.38
what we see in
the rest of the world.
00:19:18.41\00:19:19.78
Famous people are not immune,
and that is sort of emptiness.
00:19:19.81\00:19:22.73
Now you have this contrast
and this new life in Christ
00:19:22.77\00:19:25.90
where I love you guys and
this change that is taking
00:19:25.93\00:19:29.58
place with the emptiness
that you had seen maybe you
00:19:29.61\00:19:33.22
could walk us
through that a little bit?
00:19:33.26\00:19:34.84
As you say people in that
position are not immune, in fact
00:19:34.88\00:19:38.38
it seems almost like the
higher you ascend into that
00:19:38.42\00:19:41.81
position the more empty
you feel because it is really a
00:19:41.85\00:19:45.20
world of make-believe
in a lot of respects.
00:19:45.24\00:19:47.65
You see many stories of famous
people that wreck their lives
00:19:47.69\00:19:52.60
drugs and addiction and
broken marriages and infidelity
00:19:52.63\00:19:57.51
and all the rest of it.
00:19:57.54\00:19:58.67
I think it is a common story,
everybody at some point in
00:19:58.71\00:20:03.76
their life is confronted
with those searching questions,
00:20:03.79\00:20:08.81
the deep questions of life.
00:20:08.84\00:20:10.59
Where did I come from?
Where my headed to? What is the
00:20:10.63\00:20:13.73
meaning of all this and
how my supposed to live while
00:20:13.76\00:20:16.52
I am here? That was my
experience and I think that's
00:20:16.55\00:20:19.24
the experience of everybody
regardless whether you are in
00:20:19.27\00:20:22.27
the limelight
or whether you are.
00:20:22.30\00:20:24.24
- Will that quote about success
is that if you could have
00:20:24.27\00:20:28.49
one drop of that living
water, and Josh being a musician
00:20:28.53\00:20:32.71
you have written a song
about that living water.
00:20:32.75\00:20:35.52
Would you mind
sharing that with us?
00:20:35.55\00:20:36.95
Absolutely I'd love to.
00:20:36.99\00:20:38.37
Well I was thirsting
for that living water
00:21:02.47\00:21:06.60
drinking from the
well that don't satisfy
00:21:06.64\00:21:10.71
and I met a man and His
words were like no other
00:21:10.74\00:21:15.52
He said draw from the
well and it will never run dry
00:21:15.55\00:21:20.30
He told me everything I had done
00:21:20.33\00:21:26.95
He said come and
drink the living water
00:21:26.99\00:21:32.71
He said come and
take from streams of life
00:21:32.75\00:21:38.40
you will thirst no
more, you will thirst no more
00:21:38.43\00:21:47.59
I was hungry for heaven's manna
00:21:54.97\00:21:58.30
then eating the bread
that parishes and never dies
00:21:58.33\00:22:02.90
I met a man He
walked upon the waters
00:22:02.93\00:22:07.81
He said come
partake of the bread of life
00:22:07.85\00:22:13.26
the bread that
cometh down from heaven
00:22:13.30\00:22:18.68
He said come and
drink the living water
00:22:20.74\00:22:27.02
come and taste the bread of life
00:22:27.05\00:22:31.92
and you will thirst no
more, you will want no more
00:22:31.96\00:22:40.72
there's a water that's pure,
there's a bread that's true
00:22:44.50\00:22:50.29
there's a light that
shines and it's calling you
00:22:53.11\00:22:59.21
I was with without
form and void in darkness
00:23:03.74\00:23:07.60
and all around me
was trouble and strife
00:23:07.63\00:23:11.42
and I met a man that
led me from my blindness
00:23:11.45\00:23:17.07
He said I am the light of lights
00:23:17.11\00:23:22.65
the light, the light of everyone
00:23:22.68\00:23:28.15
He said come and
drink the living water
00:23:28.19\00:23:34.97
come and take the bread of life
00:23:35.01\00:23:39.90
and you will thirst no more
00:23:39.93\00:23:44.58
and walk in dark no more
00:23:44.62\00:23:49.23
I was lost in the darkness
and couldn't find my way
00:24:16.85\00:24:19.60
looking for the light of day
00:24:19.64\00:24:21.98
all around me trouble and
strife and eating the bread
00:24:22.02\00:24:25.92
that don't lead to life, clouds
but no rain was filling my sky
00:24:25.96\00:24:29.83
I was getting the
water that don't satisfy
00:24:29.87\00:24:32.03
I met a man He
led me from blindness
00:24:32.07\00:24:35.02
talk to me in words of kindness
00:24:35.06\00:24:37.19
gave me to eat of heaven's bread
come follow me is what He said
00:24:37.23\00:24:42.22
He called us His
sons and daughters
00:24:42.26\00:24:45.05
and said I am the living water
00:24:45.09\00:24:47.55
and you will thirst no
more, you will thirst no more.
00:24:53.69\00:25:03.33
Amen, Amen! That was
beautiful thank you Josh.
00:25:06.72\00:25:09.36
Jesus that whoever drinks
of the water that I shall give
00:25:09.39\00:25:12.60
him shall never thirst but
the water that I shall give him
00:25:12.63\00:25:15.81
shall become in him a
fountain of waters springing
00:25:15.84\00:25:18.89
up into everlasting life.
00:25:18.92\00:25:20.24
And you have had that
experience. - yeah I have.
00:25:20.27\00:25:22.98
I mean I guess in my experience
I've found, the ways I was
00:25:23.02\00:25:27.58
trying to satisfy that
thirst and that hunger were ways
00:25:27.61\00:25:30.71
that never could satisfy
because there is only one true
00:25:30.75\00:25:33.81
satisfaction and that is Jesus.
00:25:33.85\00:25:35.97
My personal testimony bears
witness to that, I can honestly
00:25:36.01\00:25:40.27
say along with Malcolm
Muggeridge millions and billions
00:25:40.30\00:25:44.49
of drops that other kind of
water and it doesn't compare to
00:25:44.53\00:25:47.59
one single solitary
drop of the living water that
00:25:47.62\00:25:49.73
only Christ can offer.
00:25:49.76\00:25:50.73
You know it is something
for someone who has not tasted
00:25:50.74\00:25:54.10
that lifestyle at that level
of prestige, or whatever the
00:25:54.13\00:25:57.21
term is, it is some for me
to say that our maybe Shandra
00:25:57.25\00:26:00.01
to say it but for somebody
like Muggeridge, like yourself
00:26:00.04\00:26:03.16
or others that have turned
their lives over to Jesus that
00:26:03.19\00:26:06.73
is significant because you
have tasted of the fountain.
00:26:06.76\00:26:10.27
The fountains that I
have tasted out of and
00:26:10.30\00:26:12.13
Shandra but you
tasted that fountain and said
00:26:12.16\00:26:13.95
no not compared to Jesus.
00:26:13.99\00:26:15.71
Well Philippians 3 verse 7
is some that really speaks to
00:26:15.75\00:26:20.40
me, it says "but what
things were gained to me
00:26:20.43\00:26:23.97
"I counted loss for Christ".
00:26:24.00\00:26:26.07
The stuff I used to think
was the best, he actually goes
00:26:26.11\00:26:31.70
on to call it
dung. Can you imagine?
00:26:31.74\00:26:35.73
But for the culture we live
in, the society we live in a
00:26:35.76\00:26:39.63
the values, cultural,
social elites whether it is
00:26:39.66\00:26:44.06
a musician or even an
actor, whatever it is we would
00:26:44.09\00:26:50.05
think dung? No
that's a good stuff.
00:26:50.09\00:26:52.19
But when you've had a
drop of that living water.
00:26:52.23\00:26:55.61
I think something we need
to mention is that the title of
00:26:55.65\00:26:59.22
this program Musicianary
because no Josh you are using
00:26:59.26\00:27:02.84
your music as a missionary
so we have entitled you
00:27:02.88\00:27:05.85
a musicianary. - have you
ever heard that term before?
00:27:05.89\00:27:08.83
No but I love it
and I'm going to use it.
00:27:08.86\00:27:10.83
Shandra and I are currently
debating about who came up
00:27:10.87\00:27:13.00
with it, I'm
pretty sure it was me.
00:27:13.04\00:27:15.00
- I think it was the
Lord. Hey there you go Josh
00:27:15.04\00:27:18.37
we needed that, we
needed that an babe in
00:27:18.41\00:27:19.82
Christ is teaching us.
00:27:19.86\00:27:21.42
If you're interested in
finding out more about Josh's
00:27:21.45\00:27:24.32
music he has a website
which is: JoshCunningham.com
00:27:24.35\00:27:27.26
You can also e-mail us
any questions or comments.
00:27:27.30\00:27:30.73
We just love to hear
from you: engage@3abn.org or
00:27:30.76\00:27:34.16
search for Engage on
face book we are there.
00:27:34.20\00:27:36.70
Excellent well Josh thank
you so much for joining us.
00:27:36.74\00:27:40.46
You are God's musicianary
and it has been a privilege to
00:27:40.50\00:27:44.23
have you and we want to say
to our viewers thank you for
00:27:44.26\00:27:47.96
joining us and
your experience might be
00:27:47.99\00:27:49.79
different then Josh's
but fundamentally everybody's
00:27:49.83\00:27:52.69
experience is the same, the
same as the woman at the well.
00:27:52.73\00:27:55.07
You come to Jesus and
you taste of water that
00:27:55.10\00:27:59.23
you will never thirst again.
00:27:59.26\00:28:02.10