Hello my name is David
Asscherick, welcome to Engage.
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I'm here at the
co-host Shandra Ban.
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We are going to be
taking a look at the testimony
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that is so
powerful, so inspiring that
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you will be absolutely thrilled.
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We have two guests back
with us that have been with us
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before and we want to
introduce you to them.
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Virna and Lisa Santos, thank
you so much for joining us.
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You have been with us
before and to be honest your
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testimony is so powerful
what God has done in your life.
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It is so powerful we could
have the one for 10 programs.
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I think only been we would
really be getting the feel the
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strength and
breath of your story.
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When we were together last
time, just to bring some of our
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viewers up to speed here,
you had told us you had gone
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into the homosexual lifestyle,
the homosexual community
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and this was not just a explora-
tory thing, you were in it.
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You were in this thing
for 20 years right? - yeah.
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You even had a partner, a
significant partner for seven
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or eight years and a
child with that partner, who of
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course is to your
child today, Julian.
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Lisa you lived with a
woman for time as well, three
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years,- and so now you
have come out of that lifestyle.
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Hallelujah, God has done
great and wonderful things.
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That is what we
want to talk about.
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We want to really understand,
there are so many things
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want to talk about, but
we want to understand your
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testimony even more fully.
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You have started the Ministry
and we also want to talk
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about some principles how
can people like myself and
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Shandra of who of course
are not gay and many of our
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viewers, most of them,
almost all of them not.
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We do believe that there
are some tuning in who may have
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some of the same
struggles that you had.
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How do we minister to
people? How do we give hope to
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those who might have
had the same feelings and
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experiences that you had?
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So when we were at the
last time you made the statement
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that God spoken to you at
the moment of conversion, that
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pivotal moment of conversion.
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That statement was so profound,
it was straight from the
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throne of God.- yes it
was that conviction laid on my
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heart and I felt
it was God's voice.
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What I heard was if
Sunday is the counterfeit to
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My Sabbath what then
would be the counterfeit to
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My creation? That is
when I dropped to my knees
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and I repented.
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It was days hearing counterfeit,
counterfeit, counterfeit.
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The Lord was bringing
back to my memory things
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I needed to repent for and the
realization was that the Lord
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never left me, even
throughout the wilderness
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His love was there waiting.
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So you repented for days
you said these things just kept
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coming over and over because
repentance is something we so
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often, oh I'm sorry
for this, and just move on.
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This conviction that
is amazing, powerful.
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I love the language there
where she says that there was
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this conviction, this
is something God is doing.
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No one was knocking on my
door, and my mom was praying
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for me for 20 years and
she was having other people
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praying for me at
that time so it was the
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Spirit of God moving.
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So after this voice you
hear, counterfeit, repentance,
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you start studying to be
baptized is that correct?
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Yes that is when I called
the Pastor and said Pastor I'd
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like to be
baptized. - hallelujah Amen.
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However I need to meet with you.
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Um Hmmm because you hadn't
told anyone anything at this
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point. - no one
knew nothing about me.
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So I felt I needed to tell
the truth, he needed to know
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what he was baptizing.
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So you set him and his
wife down and you just lay it on
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the table, - I laid it
all out and they were sitting
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there going they were just going
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They did not know this
person for three months going to
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their church, sitting in
the back pew, bringing my little
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girl, and we are not
socializing with anyone.
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We go to the potluck we
eat, we leave and they knew
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nothing, and so they sat
there and they were just like
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wow, wow. - what
else can you say?
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Yet he couldn't say
anything but praise the Lord,
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let's pray, that's all and
he, the Pastor just accepted
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me with open arms.
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Praise God! Praise God!
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So now Lisa you shared
with us last time that you are
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reading 'The Great Controversy',
you are studying and you
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are coming to this realization
too that God is working on
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your heart. How does that go?
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I just felt like the Holy
Spirit was calling me, drawing
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me back to truth
that were reawakening.
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Just truth and faith, reading
more of The Great Controversy
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not only the state of the
dead but just reading all these
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chapters and it was just
like wow, things were coming
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back to me and I felt
a softening in my heart.
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I was writing a letter
to my brother, so sorry if
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I was ever rude to you.
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Wow, so this conviction
was coming over you as well?
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Yes, yes - probably right
around the same time as mine?
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Same time and when I fly to
her to see my Doctor to stay
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with her for a few days we were
sharing our faith and it was
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cute because two
little girls re-discovering...
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You would come to me and Hover
over me in the middle of the
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night, like four o'clock in
the morning, Virna we got to
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get up the Lord told me to
read the last four chapters
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of The Great Controversy again.
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I'm like okay lets go
and I wanted to sleep.
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But she would wake me up
and be hovering over me and
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I was just what!
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She goes to you know
there was an earthquake?
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Jesus is coming really
soon. And I'm like okay let's
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pray and were talking and
saying God is laying on my
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heart all my sins like
from when I stole a pen when
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I was 10 years old.
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Oh wow. - it was just amazing.
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God is moving -God is
definitely moving and we felt
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like sponges and want to
absorb everything and just
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pulling out all the
literature that I actually had
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throughout the 20
years. Sitting in my closet and
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my Bible, every thing
came out of the closet.
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She spread it on the coffee
table and was like where do
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I begin. - I'm so
overwhelmed where do I start?
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So you start studying with
your Pastor to become baptized
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and Lisa at this point is
not quite there yet, and not
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quite wanting to
be baptized right?
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But she asked me - I
asked her and told her Lisa it's
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not like you're taking my
thunder, it is not about that.
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Why don't we just
get baptized together?
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I wasn't really thinking
about that but it really gave
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me something to think about.
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From there I was reading
in The Desire of Ages baptism.
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It just talked about the
death, burial, and resurrection
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of Jesus and it
really touched my heart.
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I'm like if I do not do
this I may never do this.
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I had no reason not to do this.
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- there was an
urgency. - there was an urgency.
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So she surprised me, we
are Church that morning at my
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baptism and she, -
and what date was that?
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That was January
31, 2009. - of course.
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- about 10:45 a.m.,
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no it was right
after Sabbath school.
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She comes to me and says I
decided to get baptized and
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I just embraced her it
was like praise the Lord,
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of course she did not
know that I had the Pastor,
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Pastor Jerry Agora I had
told him the night before to
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please pray for Lisa
so she will get baptized.
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And your mom is here to
witness your baptism? - yes.
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She didn't know that Lisa was
going to get baptized at all.
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I just have to say I love
just dates, she's amazing,
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she is just amazing, praise God,
this is so exciting keep going.
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So actually let me ask you a
question Virna, at this point
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you are fully convinced in
your heart that Jesus has got
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the victory over your
homosexuality, but you are still
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friends with the people in
the gay community and tell us
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about how you
invited them to come?
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Oh I invited every
single one of them.
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I invited all my friends,
invited all my relatives,
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I invited my ex-partner
and her wife and my daughter
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and all these
people, when that day came
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only one person showed up.
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And that was my ex-partner,
my daughter's birth mother.
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Right, - wow - how powerful.
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That was really powerful
and I was like okay Lord there
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is a purpose in this and
so we were sitting in the pews
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and Pastor Agora was up there
let's have our two candidates
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came up and my mom takes a
look at me and I am looking
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at my mom and I stand up
and Lisa is on the other side
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of my mom.
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- she doesn't even know
at this point and asking who
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is the other candidate?
She's looking at me and
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I'm just crying sitting
there listening to this person
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saying you lift me up by
Josh Grogan and I'm in tears.
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- someone was singing. -
yes they were singing and
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I was just ahh and my mom
was thinking are you okay,
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who's the other
candidate in I'm like
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I can't tell
you it's a surprise.
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He calls for you to
stand up. I stand up and looked
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over at Lisa to stand up
and my mom just takes this
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wild look to her left,
like and she is seeing Lisa
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stands up and my
mom just breaks down.
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My ex-partner sitting next
to my mom and my ex-partner
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is the one comforting my mom.
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They go, all of them,
all three of them my mom,
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my ex-partner, and my daughter
go behind the baptistery
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and watch us get buried
and come back out of the water.
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Now Lisa you mentioned
that there was something very
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significant about the way
you felt during your baptism?
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I know the water is not
magical but when I was dunked
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underneath and came back up
I really felt like my old self
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died, like I left it in the
water and we were just like a
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breath of fresh air and we
were talking right after and
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Virna said wow do
you feel like, yeah.
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We can't really describe it,
it just felt so, I don't know
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I couldn't find a word and
even unto this day we can't
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find the words and it is
such a miraculous experience to
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go through that death, burial
and resurrection of Christ
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that we can actually
experience it through baptism by
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immersion. - during
this whole time I was praying
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Lord give me evidence
that this is real this time.
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But this is You this
time, this is not me just going
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through the motions
and covering something up,
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that this is really real.
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So downstairs during potluck
I see my mom and the Pastor
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engaging in this conversation.
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My mom is holding the Pastor's
hand, - and how does she
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say it? She says I know
you, I met you 10 years ago at
00:11:32.74\00:11:38.15
a Filipino convocation.
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- know how to she say
it? - we want to hear how she
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would say it. -
how she would say it?
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Oh the accent. You know I
know you, I've met you before
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I wrote on a note about my
daughter, she wasn't going to
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church anymore. The Pastor's
face was like looking at her
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and he was remembering.
I'm watching this conversation
00:12:05.49\00:12:08.64
and she is like that was Virna
I was talking to you about.
00:12:08.67\00:12:13.03
So I looked up to
the Lord, thank you.
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- 10 years before
your mom was praying.
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My mom and I Pastor had
met and mom had spoken of me to
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him and he brought me to.
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- God's providence
is amazing isn't it?
00:12:23.41\00:12:25.33
This is the very time
that she is asking for evidence
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and this is happening
right in front of her,
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Oh hallelujah.
00:12:30.75\00:12:33.11
God answers prayers
before we even ask. - Amen.
00:12:33.14\00:12:36.11
So after your baptism
experience you feel called in to
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ministry, but you are not sure.
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How do you go
about doing ministry?
00:12:42.87\00:12:45.96
Right, the whole time we
were constantly in prayer.
00:12:45.99\00:12:49.24
For months I think we have
some ideas of a ministry but
00:12:49.27\00:12:53.96
we just didn't materialize
anything we had planned.
00:12:53.99\00:12:57.41
I think we were talking
about website at one point.
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We were like how do we get
this done, all we just don't
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have information or anything.
00:13:08.08\00:13:10.36
Like we were really excited
at that point, we wanted to
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go somewhere with this so
we decided to go to ARISE and
00:13:12.77\00:13:15.33
we went through three
week cross training program
00:13:15.36\00:13:18.51
last summer of 2009.
00:13:18.54\00:13:20.24
Thing coming out of
that I became a Bible worker,
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Lisa focused on her
health and you went to?
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I went to Weimer, - right.
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Weimer is a health
college in California.
00:13:27.98\00:13:29.75
Their New Start program in
which I got off some really
00:13:29.78\00:13:33.80
dangerous drugs. - because
you were diagnosed with lupus
00:13:33.83\00:13:36.67
several years before as we
mentioned in the last episode.
00:13:36.70\00:13:39.09
I think that chronic
stress really affected my body,
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otherwise we have a disconnect
between our head in our physical
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being, our blood
remembers but we forget.
00:13:46.75\00:13:52.07
So I went to Weimer and it
was blessing to go through that
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because I really experience
the Lord in a very personal
00:13:57.10\00:14:00.75
way there, had an
encounter there with Him.
00:14:00.78\00:14:03.41
Felt His tenderness, His
love just Lisa I am with you.
00:14:03.44\00:14:09.08
I'm going to
walk you through this.
00:14:09.11\00:14:10.96
And Virna you were given
an opportunity to share this
00:14:10.99\00:14:13.90
testimony at the
Central California Camp meeting,
00:14:13.93\00:14:16.88
a 10 day event where all
the Seventh-day Adventists in
00:14:16.91\00:14:19.21
central California come
together and there are meetings
00:14:19.24\00:14:21.79
and you are able to share
your testimony in the youth
00:14:21.82\00:14:24.18
department, is that correct?
00:14:24.21\00:14:25.79
Yes, that was just this
past summer and after I had just
00:14:25.82\00:14:30.31
finished sharing my testimony
a young boy, about 16 years
00:14:30.34\00:14:34.48
old came up to me and said
he was gay and he did not want
00:14:34.51\00:14:38.22
to be and he was just
praying the night before that he
00:14:38.25\00:14:42.24
needed to hear
someone talk about this issue.
00:14:42.27\00:14:45.41
We are ministering to
him now and he has proclaimed
00:14:45.44\00:14:48.55
victory by God's grace
and he wants to go into the
00:14:48.58\00:14:52.36
ministerial work and we
keep in touch on a weekly basis.
00:14:52.39\00:14:55.96
We talked and we pray together
all the time and shortly
00:14:55.99\00:14:59.29
after that when we came
home from camp meeting we were
00:14:59.32\00:15:02.40
contacted by two
other individuals.
00:15:02.43\00:15:04.67
Someone who is attending
PUC, - Pacific Union College in
00:15:04.70\00:15:08.92
California, yeah - yeah
a college in California.
00:15:08.95\00:15:12.74
So there is about
three to four souls that
00:15:12.77\00:15:14.80
we are supporting and
directing them to Jesus.
00:15:14.83\00:15:18.27
So this is even lead to
further, you see that God is
00:15:18.30\00:15:21.19
placing these people in
your path and instructing,
00:15:21.22\00:15:23.12
it is evident saying
you are on the right track,
00:15:23.15\00:15:26.58
thank you for following
Me I'm going to show you that
00:15:26.61\00:15:28.98
I have people in your life that
00:15:29.01\00:15:30.85
you can be an influence on.
00:15:30.88\00:15:31.90
Now you actually have
had the opportunity to start
00:15:31.93\00:15:33.96
a ministry where you
tell us about that ministry?
00:15:33.99\00:15:36.31
Well our ministry just
really unfolded in just the last
00:15:36.34\00:15:39.53
few weeks and our ministry
is By Beholding His Love and
00:15:39.56\00:15:44.10
the goals of our ministry
is to minister to those who
00:15:44.13\00:15:46.75
want to overcome and want
to have a closer relationship
00:15:46.78\00:15:51.21
with Jesus and we
believe that everyone should be
00:15:51.24\00:15:54.81
entitled to experience
their own walk with the Lord.
00:15:54.84\00:15:58.17
To experience the love of
Christ for themselves hence part
00:15:58.20\00:16:02.60
of our ministry is helping
the church, giving the church
00:16:02.63\00:16:06.80
resources, and how
we respond to people
00:16:06.83\00:16:09.39
who do want to overcome.
00:16:09.42\00:16:11.16
There is a lot of shame
and guilt around a lifestyle
00:16:11.19\00:16:15.50
like this and any sin.
00:16:15.53\00:16:18.40
Homosexuality is not a
crowning sin, sin is sin,
00:16:18.43\00:16:25.64
we get the same results, we
are separated from our Lord.
00:16:25.67\00:16:28.98
The wages of sin is death
and we are separated from God.
00:16:29.01\00:16:32.24
God longs to be with us
regardless of what we have done.
00:16:32.27\00:16:36.19
His love is there an
His love is what changes.
00:16:36.22\00:16:40.73
Well maybe we can talk
little bit about some of that
00:16:44.19\00:16:46.49
ministry, there are so many
things that you have said here
00:16:46.52\00:16:48.47
that would be, that we can
spend a great amount of time on.
00:16:48.50\00:16:52.43
Two things actually that
jumped out at me, I don't know
00:16:52.46\00:16:55.34
if you saw the irony of
this, I don't know if anybody
00:16:55.37\00:16:56.90
else saw the irony in
this but you were saying all
00:16:56.93\00:16:58.24
my literature it was
in the closet and all of
00:16:58.27\00:17:02.11
my literature and my Bible
was coming out of the closet.
00:17:02.14\00:17:05.33
That is the language, that
is the language that is often
00:17:05.36\00:17:08.42
used when someone is transition-
ing out of the Heterosexual
00:17:08.45\00:17:12.49
community, they are
coming out of the closet and did
00:17:12.52\00:17:15.92
you see the irony in that?
00:17:15.95\00:17:16.92
Yeah, I missed it.
00:17:16.93\00:17:18.00
We use the same language now,
we are encouraging people to
00:17:22.41\00:17:25.69
come out and talk about it,
there is nothing to be ashamed
00:17:25.72\00:17:28.97
about the Gospel of Christ.
00:17:29.00\00:17:31.49
- well there in Revelation
Chapter 18, come out of her
00:17:31.52\00:17:33.90
My people, of course that
is out of spiritual Babylon but
00:17:33.93\00:17:36.28
spiritual Babylon is all error.
00:17:36.31\00:17:37.96
God is calling, and the thing
I love it is not just about
00:17:38.00\00:17:41.39
what God is calling us
out of, but it is what He is
00:17:41.43\00:17:44.65
calling us into.
00:17:44.69\00:17:46.12
And what He is calling us
into is a relationship with
00:17:46.16\00:17:48.29
Jesus. - His love.
00:17:48.32\00:17:50.18
I saw that irony and I had
to bring that up, and here's
00:17:50.22\00:17:53.17
the other thing you were
talking about when you were
00:17:53.21\00:17:57.62
baptized, you said the
water is not magical and we know
00:17:57.66\00:18:01.08
that, we are not big on
the sacraments we believe what
00:18:01.11\00:18:04.83
the Bible says that
baptism is an outward sign of an
00:18:04.87\00:18:08.56
inward reality, but
the language you are using,
00:18:08.59\00:18:11.81
I have just got
to remind us of this.
00:18:11.85\00:18:13.64
It is straight out of Romans
six, listen to what he says.
00:18:13.67\00:18:17.42
"What shall we say then,
shall we continue in sin that
00:18:17.46\00:18:21.21
"grace may abound, certainly
not. How shall we who died
00:18:21.24\00:18:24.56
"to sin live any longer in
it? Or do you not know that
00:18:24.60\00:18:27.66
"as many of us that were
baptized into Christ Jesus were
00:18:27.70\00:18:30.73
"baptized into His
death, therefore we were buried.
00:18:30.76\00:18:33.81
"You were crucified with
him for he who was died has been
00:18:33.84\00:18:37.33
"freed from sin now if we
died with Christ we believe
00:18:37.37\00:18:40.82
"we shall also live with Him."
00:18:40.86\00:18:41.96
I mean 6,7,8, times in these
few verses in the beginning
00:18:41.99\00:18:44.54
of Romans six he is
saying you died at your baptism,
00:18:44.58\00:18:47.18
you died at your baptism,
you died at your baptism and
00:18:47.22\00:18:49.89
here I'm going to go out
on a limb, when you are having
00:18:49.92\00:18:52.61
that experience Lisa were
you aware of this particular
00:18:52.65\00:18:55.34
passage, in other words
were you like this is a Romans 6
00:18:55.37\00:18:58.03
experience? Or are you
just having the experience?
00:18:58.06\00:19:00.69
NO! I was having that
experience. -that is so awesome.
00:19:00.72\00:19:03.70
That is such a confirmation
of the text of Scripture.
00:19:03.74\00:19:07.13
We sometimes talk about
how, oh we don't want our
00:19:07.16\00:19:10.48
experience to drive our
relationship but the reality is
00:19:10.52\00:19:13.17
that our experience forms
our relationship with Jesus.
00:19:13.21\00:19:16.15
Here you are having this
experience that is totally
00:19:16.19\00:19:19.08
consistent with Scripture,
I mean it is the language of
00:19:19.11\00:19:21.96
Scripture and like you
said it's incommunicable.
00:19:22.00\00:19:25.67
You are trying, how do you
communicate the person I was
00:19:25.71\00:19:29.20
there and now this is the
person I am and of course it
00:19:29.24\00:19:32.70
is a process but that moment.
00:19:32.73\00:19:34.75
To me it just so ministered
to my soul Lisa when you are
00:19:34.79\00:19:37.98
used in that very language,
I was thinking ahh this is
00:19:38.02\00:19:41.18
Romans 6, this is
Romans 6, this is Romans 6.
00:19:41.22\00:19:43.78
That carries onto Galatians
2:22 because it's living in
00:19:43.81\00:19:49.51
Christ, - that's right
I'm crucified with Christ.
00:19:49.54\00:19:52.58
If not I that live but
Christ lives within me.
00:19:52.61\00:19:55.58
So one of the things I
loved about your testimony to be
00:19:55.61\00:20:01.25
honest, and I love
everything about it.
00:20:01.28\00:20:02.71
One of the things that's
so ministers to me is that you
00:20:02.75\00:20:06.49
are not just saying I
think Jesus as my Savior.
00:20:06.53\00:20:08.74
We have excepted Jesus as
our Savior, and now we want
00:20:08.77\00:20:13.33
others, you have the
mission, you have not just the
00:20:13.37\00:20:17.85
Christ but the mission
of the Christ. Go please!
00:20:17.88\00:20:21.88
We were really convicted,
the title of our ministry
00:20:21.91\00:20:25.66
I'm praising God because
He came up with that title
00:20:25.70\00:20:29.88
because we are, or I am
experiencing beholding Jesus
00:20:29.91\00:20:34.06
every day in this
walk, in this Christian walk.
00:20:34.10\00:20:37.00
And by beholding Him it's
like I do not want to live
00:20:37.04\00:20:42.24
a life contrary to what He is.
00:20:42.28\00:20:46.74
He is a love and by
beholding that you just want to
00:20:46.78\00:20:51.76
please God and commit to
what He is asking of you.
00:20:51.80\00:20:56.71
That is just giving Him
your heart and serving Him.
00:20:56.75\00:21:01.26
And that is my commitment
to Him, like when I lived
00:21:01.30\00:21:05.76
contrary to him all
those years, I commit myself in
00:21:05.79\00:21:10.21
service to helping others.
00:21:10.25\00:21:12.27
Now that
transition - go ahead please.
00:21:12.31\00:21:14.47
This was the burden in our
mission when we wanted to do
00:21:14.51\00:21:17.31
this ministry and reach
out to others, we were like
00:21:17.35\00:21:20.08
we do not want to get stuck
in the politics of it and all
00:21:20.12\00:21:22.84
the red tape, which just
help people know about God's
00:21:22.87\00:21:25.74
love and the love of
Christ. - fire in your bones.
00:21:25.77\00:21:28.57
There was this urgency and
we felt the magnitude of how
00:21:28.61\00:21:33.09
we lived in the wilderness
we need to far exceed that
00:21:33.13\00:21:37.57
magnitude for the glory of God.
00:21:37.61\00:21:39.22
I love that language, the
wilderness that is exactly
00:21:39.26\00:21:42.60
what it was, it was a
wilderness experience.
00:21:42.64\00:21:44.10
When you use that language
the grounds in Scripture
00:21:44.13\00:21:47.06
because the Israelites in
the wilderness, Jesus in the
00:21:47.10\00:21:50.15
wilderness, there are
many instances of people going
00:21:50.18\00:21:53.20
into the
wilderness and then coming
00:21:53.24\00:21:55.14
out of that
wilderness experience.
00:21:55.18\00:21:57.01
For you coming out of the
wilderness experience is coming
00:21:57.04\00:21:59.74
out of the homosexual
lifestyle, and that transition,
00:21:59.78\00:22:02.74
I mean when you are in
there for 20 years that just
00:22:02.78\00:22:05.70
doesn't happen like that.
00:22:05.74\00:22:07.53
Maybe very briefly, how
have some of your friends,
00:22:07.57\00:22:12.00
your whole social
circle as well, how has that
00:22:12.03\00:22:16.43
been a tough transition?
00:22:16.46\00:22:18.20
Yes it has and it has been
scary because I love my friends
00:22:18.23\00:22:22.07
and I would hate for them
to experience any kind of hate
00:22:22.11\00:22:25.91
or violence because
that is not how Christ works.
00:22:25.95\00:22:29.81
- right.- when I had to
come out to them and tell
00:22:29.84\00:22:33.63
them why was now in Christ,
I told them immediately I am
00:22:33.66\00:22:39.35
no longer gay, I don't identify
gay anymore, I believe it
00:22:39.38\00:22:43.47
is biblical and believe that
God doesn't want me to be gay
00:22:43.51\00:22:47.56
but that does not make
me any better than you.
00:22:47.60\00:22:50.99
Christ died for everyone,
but if you feel I am no longer a
00:22:51.03\00:22:57.39
person you would consider a
friend, I would respect that.
00:22:57.42\00:23:03.75
So the response I got
from them was amazing.
00:23:03.78\00:23:08.16
- it was positive. - it
was positive they were like
00:23:08.19\00:23:10.59
all right we still love
you, we will work it out.
00:23:10.63\00:23:12.99
One of your friends said
your conversion was like finding
00:23:15.36\00:23:18.98
the love of your life.
00:23:19.02\00:23:20.80
- Yeah. I had a friend hold
my hand and said I'm so happy
00:23:20.84\00:23:23.75
for you, it's like if you
found a love of your life.
00:23:23.78\00:23:27.11
- isn't that so true, that
is that experience with Christ
00:23:27.14\00:23:29.95
that is finding that
love and that is like you said
00:23:29.98\00:23:33.27
why you've chosen to
have your ministry called
00:23:33.31\00:23:35.81
By Beholding His Love.
00:23:35.85\00:23:37.24
Amen and that just blew
me away because I was like
00:23:37.28\00:23:38.83
that is what she sees, wow,
that ministered to me again.
00:23:38.87\00:23:44.72
I find the Lord
ministering to me,
00:23:44.75\00:23:46.86
to us through our friends.
00:23:46.90\00:23:49.27
So this thing you
thought was going to be a very
00:23:49.30\00:23:52.87
difficult thing actually
ended up being a blessing,
00:23:52.91\00:23:56.44
a witnessing
opportunity. - Amen yes.
00:23:56.48\00:23:59.12
I just want to say to our
viewers, I hope you heard that
00:23:59.15\00:24:04.15
language, I mean this is
someone who was in the gay
00:24:04.18\00:24:07.89
lifestyle, in the gay community
and she went back to her
00:24:07.93\00:24:12.47
friends and said I no longer
identify as homosexual, I no
00:24:12.51\00:24:17.02
longer identify as gay. I
mean the courage and that must
00:24:17.05\00:24:22.94
have been one of the
most difficult things
00:24:22.97\00:24:24.23
you have ever did?
00:24:24.26\00:24:25.28
That is when I felt my
flesh just full of fear,
00:24:25.31\00:24:28.47
but I was like Lord put
words in my mouth and let
00:24:28.50\00:24:31.62
them see You not me.
00:24:31.66\00:24:33.86
So Virna and Lisa can you
share with us then and with our
00:24:33.90\00:24:37.87
viewers how can we, we what
are some of the practical tips
00:24:37.91\00:24:41.16
you said you were trying to
get resources for the church,
00:24:41.20\00:24:44.42
what can I do, what can
David do, what do you do to
00:24:44.45\00:24:48.35
minister to the people
in the homosexual community?
00:24:48.38\00:24:52.20
Well I think first and foremost
you want them to feel safe
00:24:52.24\00:24:57.56
and also be okay that Jesus
can meet them where they are,
00:24:57.60\00:25:01.92
because that is how He meets
us, where we are. - always.
00:25:01.95\00:25:07.49
Always and just love them
to Jesus and then from there
00:25:07.52\00:25:13.17
Jesus will take them and
lead them and I feel in my heart
00:25:13.20\00:25:17.92
to be specific in my ministry
is to help people who are
00:25:17.95\00:25:22.63
fearful, or homophobic
inside, just closeted that
00:25:22.67\00:25:27.32
they can ask should come
out with the truth because on
00:25:27.36\00:25:31.60
some level the
truth shall set you free.
00:25:31.64\00:25:34.90
I just feel like if they
come out and just reach out
00:25:34.93\00:25:38.26
for help and support.
00:25:38.29\00:25:40.12
It is creating that safe
space, it is creating a place
00:25:40.16\00:25:43.88
where they can come to
someone and talk about this.
00:25:43.91\00:25:47.82
And again it's changing
our thinking what is a crowning
00:25:47.85\00:25:52.36
sin, there is no greater
sin, they are all sin and so
00:25:52.40\00:25:56.87
we have stated that before.
00:25:56.90\00:25:58.57
Just to show them the
love of Christ, just love them,
00:25:58.61\00:26:01.68
pray with them
and pray for them.
00:26:01.72\00:26:03.95
Let them know you are
praying for them, it's powerful,
00:26:03.98\00:26:08.01
prayer is powerful.
00:26:08.04\00:26:09.53
The truth of the matter is
that even though many in the
00:26:09.57\00:26:13.09
Christian community would
look with a certain kind of a
00:26:13.13\00:26:16.96
addictional repulsion of
the homosexual, sin is sin.
00:26:17.00\00:26:20.62
If there is a sin above
any other that God hates it is
00:26:20.65\00:26:24.37
the sin of pride and the
reality is that homosexuals
00:26:24.41\00:26:28.09
are people too,
I'm looking at you.
00:26:28.13\00:26:29.63
I can walk over like
Thomas and I can poke you,
00:26:29.67\00:26:32.08
you are a person.
Lisa you are a person
00:26:32.11\00:26:34.43
and sinners are people.
00:26:34.47\00:26:37.45
God has delivered you
and you have a passion,
00:26:37.49\00:26:40.97
we just have to read
this verse in the forefront.
00:26:41.01\00:26:44.80
1 Corinthians 6 and
Paul says there in verse 9,
00:26:44.83\00:26:48.55
"do you not know that the
unrighteous will not inherit the
00:26:48.59\00:26:51.21
"kingdom of God. Do not be
deceived neither fornicators,
00:26:51.25\00:26:54.47
"nor adulterers, idolaters,
nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
00:26:54.51\00:26:57.70
"nor thieves, nor
drunkenness, nor revilers, nor
00:26:57.73\00:27:00.70
"extortioners will inherit
the kingdom of God." And here
00:27:00.74\00:27:05.13
we go verse 11, "and such
were some of you, but you were
00:27:05.17\00:27:09.02
"washed, you were sanctified,
you were justified, in the
00:27:09.05\00:27:13.18
"name of the Lord Jesus
and by the Spirit of our God."
00:27:13.21\00:27:17.81
And I want to say such you
were, it is not who you are.
00:27:17.85\00:27:22.42
Because you are new
creatures in Christ Jesus.
00:27:22.45\00:27:25.86
Amen, 2 Corinthians 5:17,
"old things have passed away."
00:27:25.90\00:27:30.30
There's hope, there is
a lot of hope for anyone.
00:27:30.34\00:27:33.67
Oh, you have given me
hope, I mean God is alive and
00:27:33.71\00:27:36.97
we knew that before we can
on the program but He is just
00:27:37.01\00:27:41.00
so alive and I am
encouraged right now.
00:27:41.04\00:27:42.71
I mean overcoming
anything, what ever that may be.
00:27:42.75\00:27:45.75
Virna, Lisa thank you so
much for joining us and I want
00:27:45.79\00:27:49.29
to say to our viewers you
too can be a new creature in
00:27:49.32\00:27:52.94
Christ Jesus, send us an e-
mail and get a hold of us at
00:27:52.97\00:27:56.43
Engage@3ABN.org or checks
out on face book at Engage.
00:27:56.46\00:27:59.88
Thank you for joining us.
00:27:59.92\00:28:01.86