Hello friend, I'm John Carter.
00:00:01.36\00:00:02.86
Welcome today to
the Carter Report.
00:00:02.90\00:00:04.70
Our topic is Faith and Science.
00:00:04.73\00:00:08.60
We have with us
today a great scientist,
00:00:08.64\00:00:11.34
Dr. Fazale Rana,
00:00:11.37\00:00:12.77
from that great organization
in Southern California,
00:00:12.81\00:00:16.38
Reasons to Believe.
00:00:16.41\00:00:18.38
Welcome today to
the Carter Report.
00:00:18.41\00:00:20.95
I'm John Carter in Moscow.
00:00:24.85\00:00:27.36
In Havana, Cuba.
00:00:27.39\00:00:29.99
Now in Kiev, the
capital of Ukraine.
00:00:30.03\00:00:33.36
I'm John Carter in Petra.
00:00:33.40\00:00:36.26
Right here in Communist China.
00:00:36.30\00:00:39.23
Reporting from India.
00:00:39.27\00:00:41.30
Hi, I'm John Carter
in the Solomon Islands.
00:00:41.34\00:00:44.27
I'm John Carter in Soweto.
00:00:44.31\00:00:46.78
From El Salvador.
00:00:46.81\00:00:49.18
I'm John Carter
in Sydney, Australia.
00:00:49.21\00:00:52.31
John Carter brings
together Faith and Science.
00:00:52.35\00:00:56.42
Welcome back.
00:00:59.69\00:01:01.02
We're glad to
have you with us today.
00:01:01.06\00:01:02.52
Dr. Rana, we're
delighted to have you with us
00:01:02.56\00:01:04.69
from Reasons to Believe.
00:01:04.73\00:01:06.09
Well, thank you for having me.
00:01:06.13\00:01:08.00
I have been
tremendously inspired
00:01:08.03\00:01:10.27
by the material
that has come out
00:01:10.30\00:01:11.83
of Reasons to Believe.
00:01:11.87\00:01:13.20
Thank you.
00:01:13.23\00:01:14.57
This tremendous stuff
00:01:14.60\00:01:15.94
on the creation of the universe,
00:01:15.97\00:01:18.01
the fine tuning of the universe.
00:01:18.04\00:01:19.87
You know,
00:01:19.91\00:01:21.24
this is heady,
powerful stuff, isn't it?
00:01:21.28\00:01:23.14
It is.
00:01:23.18\00:01:24.51
Amazing stuff.
00:01:24.55\00:01:25.91
Now in the first segment
entitled Faith and Science,
00:01:25.95\00:01:31.19
he told us about
building tiny little computers
00:01:31.22\00:01:34.59
that replicate the cell,
00:01:34.62\00:01:37.16
the DNA.
00:01:37.19\00:01:38.93
This is sort of incredible.
00:01:38.96\00:01:40.30
I want you to tell the
audience about it again, please.
00:01:40.33\00:01:42.76
Well, to me,
00:01:42.80\00:01:44.13
this is one of the
most mind-boggling things
00:01:44.17\00:01:46.47
I've ever learned about...
00:01:46.50\00:01:47.84
Boggled my mind.
00:01:47.87\00:01:49.20
About biochemistry.
00:01:49.24\00:01:50.74
And that is
00:01:50.77\00:01:52.11
that the
machinery inside the cell
00:01:52.14\00:01:55.38
that manipulates DNA,
00:01:55.41\00:01:57.08
and DNA is a large molecule
00:01:57.11\00:01:59.98
that contains the instructions
00:02:00.02\00:02:02.15
that the cell needs to produce
all of the protein machines
00:02:02.18\00:02:06.15
that carry out its operations.
00:02:06.19\00:02:08.72
And that
instruction is in the form
00:02:08.76\00:02:10.66
or those
instructions are in the form
00:02:10.69\00:02:12.73
of digital information.
00:02:12.76\00:02:14.86
And it turns out
that those machines
00:02:14.90\00:02:17.00
that manipulate DNA
are literally functioning
00:02:17.03\00:02:19.73
like computer systems
00:02:19.77\00:02:21.90
that their very
basic mode of operation.
00:02:21.94\00:02:26.21
So much so that
00:02:26.24\00:02:27.71
it's inspired a new
area of nanotechnology
00:02:27.74\00:02:30.51
called DNA computing,
00:02:30.55\00:02:32.51
where scientists
are building computers
00:02:32.55\00:02:34.78
in the laboratory using DNA,
00:02:34.82\00:02:37.55
and the proteins
that manipulate DNA.
00:02:37.59\00:02:40.06
And these computers are
in tiny little test tubes
00:02:40.09\00:02:42.56
about this big.
00:02:42.59\00:02:44.29
And they're more powerful
00:02:44.33\00:02:46.46
than the most
powerful supercomputer system.
00:02:46.49\00:02:48.50
Say that again,
they're more powerful than...
00:02:48.53\00:02:51.33
Than the most
powerful supercomputer system
00:02:51.37\00:02:54.20
that we've ever built.
00:02:54.24\00:02:55.67
I find this astounding.
00:02:55.70\00:02:58.07
It is astounding.
It's mind-boggling.
00:02:58.11\00:03:00.31
These tiny little things
00:03:00.34\00:03:01.68
that replicate the
tiny, tiny little cell,
00:03:01.71\00:03:06.21
the DNA, they're more powerful
00:03:06.25\00:03:08.08
than the most powerful
computer system in the world.
00:03:08.12\00:03:10.92
Yes. Yes.
00:03:10.95\00:03:12.99
And this just
happened with the cell.
00:03:13.02\00:03:14.89
Yeah.
00:03:14.92\00:03:16.26
Well, to me that we
know from experience that
00:03:16.29\00:03:19.86
what it takes to
build a computer system.
00:03:19.89\00:03:24.17
It doesn't just
happen by itself?
00:03:24.20\00:03:27.00
I mean, because
Richard Dawkins says
00:03:27.04\00:03:28.47
it all happened by
the blind watchmaker.
00:03:28.50\00:03:31.04
Well, and this is to me
00:03:31.07\00:03:32.41
the power, I
think of the evidence
00:03:32.44\00:03:34.91
that we see in biochemistry
for Creator's existence.
00:03:34.94\00:03:38.41
And that is the fact that,
00:03:38.45\00:03:41.08
again, your first inclination
00:03:41.12\00:03:43.45
when you see a computer system,
00:03:43.49\00:03:45.52
is that there was a mind
00:03:45.55\00:03:47.42
that was
responsible for conceiving it,
00:03:47.46\00:03:49.79
designing it, and building it.
00:03:49.82\00:03:51.86
And why would we
conclude otherwise,
00:03:51.89\00:03:54.33
when we realize
00:03:54.36\00:03:55.70
at the core of
the cells operations
00:03:55.73\00:03:58.03
are these very elaborate,
00:03:58.07\00:03:59.40
sophisticated computer systems,
00:03:59.43\00:04:01.67
far more sophisticated
00:04:01.70\00:04:03.10
than what we could ever build.
00:04:03.14\00:04:04.71
I just want to say to
the television audience,
00:04:04.74\00:04:06.44
I want you to hear this
00:04:06.47\00:04:07.81
because this is
totally mind-blowing,
00:04:07.84\00:04:11.01
this is astounding,
that inside the cell,
00:04:11.05\00:04:14.62
there are computers
00:04:14.65\00:04:15.98
that are more
powerful and complex
00:04:16.02\00:04:18.95
than anything that
exists in the world.
00:04:18.99\00:04:20.76
Yes.
00:04:20.79\00:04:22.12
And the cell is so small
00:04:22.16\00:04:26.09
that you got to have
00:04:26.13\00:04:28.46
a sophisticated
microscope to see it.
00:04:28.50\00:04:31.23
Yes. Yes, that's right.
00:04:31.27\00:04:33.54
You're a biochemist.
00:04:33.57\00:04:35.34
Where did you do
your degree, incidentally?
00:04:35.37\00:04:37.54
At Ohio University.
00:04:37.57\00:04:39.14
Yeah. Which is a
great university.
00:04:39.17\00:04:40.61
Yes, I think.
00:04:40.64\00:04:41.98
And then you went out
and did what after that?
00:04:42.01\00:04:44.48
Where did you work?
00:04:44.51\00:04:45.85
I did a couple of postdocs
at the University of Virginia
00:04:45.88\00:04:49.15
and University of Georgia,
00:04:49.18\00:04:51.09
and then spent
not quite a decade
00:04:51.12\00:04:54.29
working in
research and development
00:04:54.32\00:04:56.02
for a Fortune 500 company.
00:04:56.06\00:04:58.56
And from there I went
00:04:58.59\00:04:59.93
and joined the
Reasons to Believe
00:04:59.96\00:05:02.10
which I've been a
part of now for 20 years.
00:05:02.13\00:05:04.17
Which gives Reasons to Believe?
00:05:04.20\00:05:05.87
Yes, I mean,
00:05:05.90\00:05:07.24
the focus of our organization
00:05:07.27\00:05:08.70
is to show how the
latest discoveries in science
00:05:08.74\00:05:11.27
provide evidence
for God's existence
00:05:11.31\00:05:13.68
and the
reliability of Scripture.
00:05:13.71\00:05:15.08
So you believe
that faith and science
00:05:15.11\00:05:18.75
can very happily coexist?
00:05:18.78\00:05:21.28
Yes.
00:05:21.32\00:05:22.65
In fact,
00:05:22.68\00:05:24.02
I think not only
can they coexist,
00:05:24.05\00:05:25.89
but I think
00:05:25.92\00:05:27.26
scientific discoveries give us
00:05:27.29\00:05:29.19
reasons to believe that
00:05:29.22\00:05:31.03
the Christian faith is true.
00:05:31.06\00:05:32.53
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:05:32.56\00:05:33.90
And so it's not a question
00:05:33.93\00:05:36.26
of achieving some
kind of taught or truths,
00:05:36.30\00:05:38.77
but it's really.
00:05:38.80\00:05:40.14
It's the most
reasonable conclusion.
00:05:40.17\00:05:42.27
Yes,
00:05:42.30\00:05:44.41
when you look at
the scientific evidence,
00:05:44.44\00:05:46.74
it just indicates
00:05:46.78\00:05:48.11
that there is a
design to the universe,
00:05:48.14\00:05:51.25
a design to life.
00:05:51.28\00:05:53.01
That to me only makes sense
00:05:53.05\00:05:54.58
if you think about that design
00:05:54.62\00:05:55.95
coming from the
mind of a Creator.
00:05:55.98\00:05:58.02
Is it not true,
00:05:58.05\00:05:59.39
and I've read a
little bit about this.
00:05:59.42\00:06:00.96
And I've listened
to great scientists
00:06:00.99\00:06:03.19
like Hugh Ross and others,
00:06:03.22\00:06:05.86
that the whole
universe is fine tune for life.
00:06:05.89\00:06:08.50
Yes.
00:06:08.53\00:06:09.86
This is called the
anthropic principle,
00:06:09.90\00:06:11.43
is this right?
00:06:11.47\00:06:12.80
That's right.
00:06:12.83\00:06:14.17
And this again,
is a discovery that,
00:06:14.20\00:06:16.10
I think is on par
00:06:16.14\00:06:17.47
with the
discovery of DNA computers
00:06:17.51\00:06:19.34
inside the cell.
00:06:19.37\00:06:20.71
I mean it's
mind-boggling to think.
00:06:20.74\00:06:22.08
Yeah, it's mind
boggling, everything.
00:06:22.11\00:06:23.68
That the way the
universe is constructed,
00:06:23.71\00:06:27.02
the fundamental
constants and the parameters
00:06:27.05\00:06:29.18
and the characteristics
00:06:29.22\00:06:30.75
have to assume exacting values.
00:06:30.79\00:06:33.22
One part in a trillion
trillion trillion trillion.
00:06:33.25\00:06:35.52
Yeah, I mean,
00:06:35.56\00:06:36.89
that the level of exactness
is almost incomprehensible.
00:06:36.93\00:06:41.90
And if in any one of
them deviates ever so slightly
00:06:41.93\00:06:44.93
from those values,
00:06:44.97\00:06:46.87
life wouldn't be
possible in the universe,
00:06:46.90\00:06:48.94
and this suggest
00:06:48.97\00:06:50.31
that the universe is designed.
00:06:50.34\00:06:52.11
But it also
suggests that the universe
00:06:52.14\00:06:55.08
has a purpose,
its fit for a purpose.
00:06:55.11\00:06:57.11
Yes.
00:06:57.15\00:06:58.48
And that purpose is
the advent of humanity.
00:06:58.51\00:07:00.35
Yes.
00:07:00.38\00:07:01.72
And so that it's as
Freeman Dyson once said,
00:07:01.75\00:07:04.12
he says, "As if the
universe had us in mind,
00:07:04.15\00:07:06.82
from the very
beginning," you know,
00:07:06.86\00:07:08.39
that there's
something about the universe
00:07:08.42\00:07:11.06
that is structured in a way
00:07:11.09\00:07:12.93
that makes human life possible.
00:07:12.96\00:07:15.06
I just wanna say to
the watching audience,
00:07:15.10\00:07:18.03
I personally would
find it very, very hard
00:07:18.07\00:07:21.10
to be a rational atheist.
00:07:21.14\00:07:24.37
I find it very hard
00:07:24.41\00:07:25.74
to be a person
who thinks rationally,
00:07:25.77\00:07:28.04
and believes that all of this
00:07:28.08\00:07:29.84
the fine tuning of the universe,
00:07:29.88\00:07:31.61
the construction of the cell,
00:07:31.65\00:07:35.08
the replication of the cell
00:07:35.12\00:07:36.75
and these tiny of the DNA
00:07:36.79\00:07:39.39
in these super,
super tiny computers.
00:07:39.42\00:07:42.52
I find it hard to believe
00:07:42.56\00:07:43.89
all of this could
happen by itself...
00:07:43.93\00:07:47.16
Yeah.
00:07:47.20\00:07:48.53
By a blind watchmaker. Me too.
00:07:48.56\00:07:50.97
I mean, I think if you really
are looking at the evidence,
00:07:51.00\00:07:53.77
objectively, at minimum,
00:07:53.80\00:07:56.34
it's rational to
think a Creator exists.
00:07:56.37\00:07:58.47
But I think the evidence really,
00:07:58.51\00:08:00.74
if you're open-minded,
00:08:00.78\00:08:02.11
compels you to think
that a Creator exists.
00:08:02.14\00:08:04.08
I'm compelled.
00:08:04.11\00:08:05.45
So people who've just tuned
into the television program.
00:08:05.48\00:08:09.52
Tell me more about the cell?
00:08:09.55\00:08:12.12
How big the cell is?
00:08:12.15\00:08:13.66
What goes on inside the cell?
00:08:13.69\00:08:15.92
How we now trying to replicate
00:08:15.96\00:08:17.56
the computers
00:08:17.59\00:08:19.26
that are
working inside the cell?
00:08:19.29\00:08:21.00
The way I like to
think of the cell is that
00:08:21.03\00:08:23.63
it's like a
microscopic molecular scale city
00:08:23.67\00:08:27.90
where, you know,
00:08:27.94\00:08:29.27
the smallest bacterium
00:08:29.30\00:08:30.64
is probably about a
micron or so in size,
00:08:30.67\00:08:33.27
it's about one
millionth of a meter.
00:08:33.31\00:08:35.71
And a large cell might be
00:08:35.74\00:08:37.45
a couple
hundred microns in size.
00:08:37.48\00:08:38.91
Yeah, it's huge.
00:08:38.95\00:08:40.28
But the operations
00:08:40.32\00:08:41.65
that are taking
place in the cell
00:08:41.68\00:08:44.29
are incredibly complex,
00:08:44.32\00:08:45.89
incredibly mind, you know,
00:08:45.92\00:08:47.72
mind-boggling in
terms of the complexity,
00:08:47.76\00:08:50.63
but there's a
sophistication and ingenuity.
00:08:50.66\00:08:53.09
But it's all coordinated,
it's all integrated,
00:08:53.13\00:08:56.00
and working seamlessly together,
00:08:56.03\00:08:57.87
just like a well run city.
00:08:57.90\00:08:59.63
So tell me some of the functions
00:08:59.67\00:09:02.57
and some of the
operations inside the cell?
00:09:02.60\00:09:04.77
Well, you know,
00:09:04.81\00:09:06.14
another biochemical
system that intrigues me is
00:09:06.17\00:09:10.65
the process of
protein production
00:09:10.68\00:09:13.38
in it literally is like
a well run assembly line.
00:09:13.42\00:09:16.69
Where, inside the cell?
00:09:16.72\00:09:18.05
Yeah, where you have
the set of instructions
00:09:18.09\00:09:20.82
in the DNA molecule.
00:09:20.86\00:09:22.96
And when it's time to
make a particular protein
00:09:22.99\00:09:25.19
because the cell
needs that operation,
00:09:25.23\00:09:27.66
that protein carries out.
00:09:27.70\00:09:29.63
That information is copied
by an elaborate set of machines
00:09:29.66\00:09:33.27
that, in fact, are
a computer operation.
00:09:33.30\00:09:36.04
And then that copy is escorted
00:09:36.07\00:09:39.74
to a structure called ribosome.
00:09:39.77\00:09:43.11
It's like a
protein assembly line,
00:09:43.14\00:09:45.08
that bit by bit assembled.
00:09:45.11\00:09:46.61
And this actually happens? Yes.
00:09:46.65\00:09:48.58
Can you see this?
00:09:48.62\00:09:50.29
We know what happens
00:09:50.32\00:09:51.65
from a whole host of
biochemical evidence.
00:09:51.69\00:09:53.49
So the ribosome...
00:09:53.52\00:09:54.96
Because it's so small.
00:09:54.99\00:09:56.32
It's so small, you
can't really see it now.
00:09:56.36\00:09:57.69
Goodness.
00:09:57.73\00:09:59.06
But you're inferring it
from all the chemical data
00:09:59.09\00:10:01.63
that you've collected
00:10:01.66\00:10:03.00
in terms of how
the cell operates.
00:10:03.03\00:10:04.73
But literally, a protein is
00:10:04.77\00:10:07.14
a chain of smaller
molecules called amino acids
00:10:07.17\00:10:10.51
that are linked together.
00:10:10.54\00:10:11.97
And they're brought
one amino acid at a time
00:10:12.01\00:10:14.71
to the ribosome
00:10:14.74\00:10:16.08
and it's assembled in a
precise exacting manner.
00:10:16.11\00:10:19.15
And throughout
that whole process,
00:10:19.18\00:10:21.15
there are all these
quality control checkpoints
00:10:21.18\00:10:23.35
that are making sure
00:10:23.39\00:10:24.75
that this process
happens without any error,
00:10:24.79\00:10:27.46
or without any mistake.
00:10:27.49\00:10:28.82
It's all exquisitely optimized.
00:10:28.86\00:10:32.63
Well, to a reasonable mind,
00:10:32.66\00:10:34.63
this would be
evidence for designer.
00:10:34.66\00:10:39.00
Is this a rational statement?
00:10:39.03\00:10:41.04
It is.
00:10:41.07\00:10:42.40
And to me this brings to mind
00:10:42.44\00:10:44.91
the old watchmaker
argument of William Paley that,
00:10:44.94\00:10:48.48
you know, that
if you see a watch,
00:10:48.51\00:10:50.08
this was Paley's
argument on the side of the road
00:10:50.11\00:10:53.05
you would conclude
that there was a mind
00:10:53.08\00:10:54.98
that made it because
00:10:55.02\00:10:56.52
that watch has certain
properties that reflect
00:10:56.55\00:10:59.75
what human beings do
when we design things.
00:10:59.79\00:11:02.52
And the same
properties are found
00:11:02.56\00:11:04.59
in every biochemical system,
00:11:04.63\00:11:08.33
those same properties,
00:11:08.36\00:11:10.60
you know, and so it revitalizes
00:11:10.63\00:11:12.37
that old watchmaker argument.
00:11:12.40\00:11:14.70
All right, then, doctor,
00:11:14.74\00:11:17.17
you came up and
brought up in a home
00:11:17.21\00:11:18.97
that was somewhat antagonistic
towards Christianity?
00:11:19.01\00:11:21.84
Yes.
00:11:21.88\00:11:23.21
When you go to university,
00:11:23.24\00:11:24.81
did science play a part
at all in your conversion
00:11:24.85\00:11:28.12
to Christ and Christianity?
00:11:28.15\00:11:29.98
It played
perhaps the central role.
00:11:30.02\00:11:33.69
When I was an
undergraduate student,
00:11:33.72\00:11:35.36
I embraced the
evolutionary paradigm,
00:11:35.39\00:11:38.03
I was an agnostic,
00:11:38.06\00:11:39.73
I would have cheered on
the likes of Richard Dawkins,
00:11:39.76\00:11:42.86
and would have agreed with him.
00:11:42.90\00:11:44.77
And yet when I was
a graduate student,
00:11:44.80\00:11:46.53
it was discoveries,
like we're talking about now,
00:11:46.57\00:11:49.47
that gave me some very
serious pause for thought.
00:11:49.50\00:11:52.91
And so I asked,
00:11:52.94\00:11:54.28
"Can the blind
watchmaker mechanism
00:11:54.31\00:11:56.24
produce this design?"
00:11:56.28\00:11:57.98
What made you
ask those questions?
00:11:58.01\00:11:59.78
Because the way that
biochemical systems operate
00:11:59.81\00:12:04.42
is so
sophisticated and ingenious
00:12:04.45\00:12:07.22
and elegant,
00:12:07.26\00:12:10.16
that it's not like the
types of chemical systems
00:12:10.19\00:12:13.43
that we cobbled
together in the laboratory.
00:12:13.46\00:12:14.80
So did you sit
down sometime and say,
00:12:14.83\00:12:17.57
how does this happen?
00:12:17.60\00:12:18.93
I did.
00:12:18.97\00:12:20.30
And so I
literally began to study
00:12:20.34\00:12:22.47
the origin of life question,
00:12:22.50\00:12:25.01
in addition to all my
other responsibilities.
00:12:25.04\00:12:26.64
And the atheist has got
no answer to this, has it?
00:12:26.68\00:12:28.81
No. The origin of life.
00:12:28.84\00:12:30.28
Within about a
month of serious study,
00:12:30.31\00:12:33.58
I said, there's no way
00:12:33.62\00:12:35.38
that chemistry
and physics on its own
00:12:35.42\00:12:37.89
can produce these
kind of systems that
00:12:37.92\00:12:40.26
there has to be a mind.
00:12:40.29\00:12:42.16
And that then leads to
two very important questions.
00:12:42.19\00:12:47.16
Who is that creator?
00:12:47.20\00:12:48.70
And do I relate to
that creator and if so, how?
00:12:48.73\00:12:51.80
And I felt that the
best answer to that was
00:12:51.83\00:12:54.44
in the person of Christ
and in the gospel itself.
00:12:54.47\00:12:57.21
How did you hear
about Christ and the gospel?
00:12:57.24\00:12:59.57
Well, he was a
pastor who was going to...
00:12:59.61\00:13:03.98
He married my wife and I,
00:13:04.01\00:13:05.35
but as we were sitting down
00:13:05.38\00:13:06.72
to talk about
00:13:06.75\00:13:08.08
what that
marriage would look like.
00:13:08.12\00:13:10.75
He challenged me
as a non-believer,
00:13:10.79\00:13:13.79
he challenged me to
get a copy of the Bible
00:13:13.82\00:13:16.59
and read it for myself.
00:13:16.62\00:13:17.96
He asked me, "Have
you ever read the Bible?"
00:13:17.99\00:13:19.56
And my answer was no,
00:13:19.59\00:13:21.10
I was 23 years old at the time,
00:13:21.13\00:13:22.76
I never picked up the Bible.
00:13:22.80\00:13:24.33
And so he said,
00:13:24.37\00:13:25.70
"How do you know it's not true?"
00:13:25.73\00:13:27.20
And so as I read
through the Gospel of Matthew,
00:13:27.24\00:13:30.47
in the Sermon on the Mount,
00:13:30.51\00:13:32.41
I encountered
the person of Christ
00:13:32.44\00:13:34.11
in the pages of scripture
00:13:34.14\00:13:35.48
and had this
overwhelming conviction
00:13:35.51\00:13:38.48
that this indeed was true.
00:13:38.51\00:13:40.02
And then later on, of course,
00:13:40.05\00:13:42.78
I learned of all the
very powerful evidence
00:13:42.82\00:13:45.45
that we have for the reliability
00:13:45.49\00:13:47.02
of the Old and the New Testament
00:13:47.06\00:13:48.46
and the powerful
historical arguments
00:13:48.49\00:13:50.59
we could make for Christ.
00:13:50.63\00:13:52.16
But I would say
00:13:52.19\00:13:53.53
I had a religious experience
00:13:53.56\00:13:55.30
engaging the Sermon on the Mount
00:13:55.33\00:13:57.53
as a non-believer,
00:13:57.57\00:14:00.24
but somebody who
was open to the gospel
00:14:00.27\00:14:03.04
because I was
comfortable with the idea
00:14:03.07\00:14:05.14
that there was a Creator.
00:14:05.17\00:14:06.51
And when you gave
your life to Christ,
00:14:06.54\00:14:09.84
this makes some people
feel a little uncomfortable.
00:14:09.88\00:14:13.48
But we're talking about
something which is real.
00:14:16.79\00:14:19.69
It's as real as
anything scientific.
00:14:19.72\00:14:22.26
When you gave
your life to Christ,
00:14:22.29\00:14:25.43
what happened to you?
00:14:25.46\00:14:27.26
How would you explain this?
00:14:27.30\00:14:28.86
Well, I felt like
I finally understood
00:14:28.90\00:14:32.23
what my place was.
00:14:32.27\00:14:34.30
Where you came from?
Yeah, where I came from.
00:14:34.34\00:14:35.90
Why you're here?
00:14:35.94\00:14:37.27
Yeah, what was the purpose
or the meaning of my existence,
00:14:37.31\00:14:40.54
and to me that
meaning and purpose
00:14:40.58\00:14:42.44
is in the
relationship with our Creator.
00:14:42.48\00:14:45.75
And I also realize that
00:14:45.78\00:14:49.12
I had this
opportunity to know that Creator
00:14:49.15\00:14:51.99
who made the entire universe.
00:14:52.02\00:14:53.36
I know this is a
mind-boggling concept.
00:14:53.39\00:14:55.52
And I could know that Creator
through the person of Christ
00:14:55.56\00:14:58.99
and His sacrifice on the Cross
00:14:59.03\00:15:01.00
so that I could be
reconciled to the Creator
00:15:01.03\00:15:03.57
so that my sins
would be forgiven
00:15:03.60\00:15:05.80
that which was
keeping me from the Creator,
00:15:05.83\00:15:08.47
that is maybe even
more mind-blowing than...
00:15:08.50\00:15:12.37
Of course, it is.
00:15:12.41\00:15:13.74
They're thinking
about elegant design
00:15:13.78\00:15:15.71
that you see in
biochemical systems.
00:15:15.74\00:15:17.91
That the Creator of the universe
00:15:17.95\00:15:19.68
is interested in you and me.
00:15:19.71\00:15:22.18
But I also came to
realize that as a scientist,
00:15:22.22\00:15:26.12
I didn't need to
apologize for being a Christian.
00:15:26.15\00:15:29.56
Because the worldview
that Christianity represents,
00:15:29.59\00:15:34.46
is actually foundational
for doing science itself.
00:15:34.50\00:15:37.43
Yes. Tell us about this?
00:15:37.47\00:15:39.00
Well, I mean, to do science,
00:15:39.03\00:15:40.47
we're making
certain assumptions.
00:15:40.50\00:15:42.20
What are these assumptions?
00:15:42.24\00:15:43.57
Well, we assume that
the universe is real,
00:15:43.61\00:15:45.97
that it's worth studying.
00:15:46.01\00:15:47.34
Yeah.
00:15:47.38\00:15:48.71
There's values. There are laws.
00:15:48.74\00:15:50.08
Yeah, there are laws,
00:15:50.11\00:15:51.45
there's a
regularity to the universe,
00:15:51.48\00:15:52.81
that the
universe is intelligible.
00:15:52.85\00:15:54.85
And that we have
a mental apparatus
00:15:54.88\00:15:56.85
that's trustworthy
enough to study the universe.
00:15:56.89\00:15:59.72
Well, those assumptions
00:15:59.75\00:16:02.39
flow right out of
the Christian worldview.
00:16:02.42\00:16:04.39
Of course.
00:16:04.43\00:16:05.76
If God is the Creator,
and He's revealed Himself
00:16:05.79\00:16:07.33
through the creation,
00:16:07.36\00:16:08.86
and the creation is good
00:16:08.90\00:16:10.50
because the Creator made it.
00:16:10.53\00:16:11.87
Well, it's worth studying.
00:16:11.90\00:16:13.80
Creator's a God of order,
00:16:13.84\00:16:15.97
there's a
regularity to the universe
00:16:16.00\00:16:17.64
because the
Creator instituted that.
00:16:17.67\00:16:19.41
And as humans
made in God's image,
00:16:19.44\00:16:22.41
we have that ability to
understand the universe.
00:16:22.44\00:16:25.51
Is it not true?
00:16:25.55\00:16:26.88
And this kept
Darwin up at night.
00:16:26.92\00:16:29.38
He said,
00:16:29.42\00:16:30.75
"If this mind has
come from the very lowest,
00:16:30.79\00:16:35.19
and it's happened
by a blind chance,
00:16:35.22\00:16:38.09
how can I trust its processes?
00:16:38.13\00:16:40.26
How can I believe in anything?"
00:16:40.30\00:16:42.76
So if you don't believe in God,
00:16:42.80\00:16:45.33
how can you believe in laws
00:16:45.37\00:16:47.77
by which we can
interpret the universe?
00:16:47.80\00:16:49.64
Yes.
00:16:49.67\00:16:51.01
This is a question. Yeah.
00:16:51.04\00:16:52.37
Because I mean, the
fact that there's even laws
00:16:52.41\00:16:54.34
that dictate
the way the universe
00:16:54.38\00:16:56.04
operates suggests
00:16:56.08\00:16:57.51
there had to be a mind
00:16:57.55\00:16:59.78
that generated those
laws that produce those laws,
00:16:59.81\00:17:02.62
or how to be a law giver.
00:17:02.65\00:17:04.62
So it's not just that the fact
00:17:04.65\00:17:05.99
that the
universe has a beginning
00:17:06.02\00:17:07.36
that points to a
Creator, or the design.
00:17:07.39\00:17:10.53
It's the fact that
everything is operating,
00:17:10.56\00:17:13.19
according to a regularity,
00:17:13.23\00:17:14.80
where do those laws come
from if not from a Creator?
00:17:14.83\00:17:18.33
Is it not true
00:17:18.37\00:17:19.70
that the great scientific
research was made possible
00:17:19.73\00:17:24.27
because of the Christian faith?
00:17:24.31\00:17:26.74
Well, it's no accident
that modern science with birth
00:17:26.78\00:17:30.15
and flourished
in Christian Europe.
00:17:30.18\00:17:32.71
And in fact, the scientists
00:17:32.75\00:17:35.22
who were
instrumental in establishing
00:17:35.25\00:17:37.49
the different
disciplines of science
00:17:37.52\00:17:39.92
were all men and women of God,
00:17:39.95\00:17:42.76
who were studying science
00:17:42.79\00:17:44.96
as a way to gain deeper insight
00:17:44.99\00:17:47.26
into the Creator.
00:17:47.30\00:17:48.63
It was an act of
worship for them.
00:17:48.66\00:17:50.53
I want the television
audience to think about this.
00:17:50.57\00:17:55.60
The great
atheist, Richard Dawkins,
00:17:55.64\00:17:57.34
and every atheist says this.
00:17:57.37\00:17:59.64
The man is the product
of time, think about this,
00:17:59.67\00:18:02.54
time plus matter plus chance.
00:18:02.58\00:18:06.51
It's true, isn't it? Yes.
00:18:06.55\00:18:07.88
That's atheism.
00:18:07.92\00:18:09.25
Well, if we're
the product of time
00:18:09.28\00:18:10.72
plus matter plus chance,
00:18:10.75\00:18:12.12
then how can you
believe in anything?
00:18:12.15\00:18:14.79
How can you trust your senses?
00:18:14.82\00:18:16.39
That's an
incredibly powerful point.
00:18:16.42\00:18:20.93
Because if our
mind is cobbled together
00:18:20.96\00:18:23.83
by evolutionary processes,
00:18:23.87\00:18:26.07
it functions just good
enough for us to survive,
00:18:26.10\00:18:29.50
there's no
guarantee that what we think
00:18:29.54\00:18:31.77
or perceive is true
or reflects reality.
00:18:31.81\00:18:34.51
And so the atheist
without being hard on him
00:18:34.54\00:18:37.25
because we love the atheist,
00:18:37.28\00:18:40.62
but the atheist has to
take an immense leap of faith.
00:18:40.65\00:18:43.39
Yes.
00:18:43.42\00:18:44.75
He's the person
00:18:44.79\00:18:46.12
who's the most religious of all.
00:18:46.15\00:18:47.49
Richard Dawkins is the most
religious person in England,
00:18:47.52\00:18:50.79
and the most
zealous in many ways.
00:18:50.83\00:18:54.00
I'm being a little facetious.
00:18:54.03\00:18:55.96
Now Darwin, the
great Englishman,
00:18:56.00\00:18:59.77
Charles Darwin,
00:18:59.80\00:19:01.50
sought up the idea of evolution.
00:19:01.54\00:19:03.71
Yeah.
00:19:03.74\00:19:06.14
Of course, he was very familiar
00:19:06.17\00:19:07.98
with the marvelous
workings of the cell, wasn't he?
00:19:08.01\00:19:11.85
I mean, he had
great microscopes.
00:19:11.88\00:19:15.75
He knew everything
that you know, didn't he?
00:19:15.78\00:19:19.55
Actually, what's interesting is
00:19:19.59\00:19:21.82
almost everything that we know
00:19:21.86\00:19:23.19
about biology was discovered
00:19:23.22\00:19:25.53
after Darwin's
theory of evolution.
00:19:25.56\00:19:27.70
Yes.
00:19:27.73\00:19:29.06
You know, and so
Darwin had no concept
00:19:29.10\00:19:31.00
of the complexity of the
cell, he thought it was just...
00:19:31.03\00:19:33.67
A blob. A blob of jelly.
00:19:33.70\00:19:35.30
Yes.
00:19:35.34\00:19:36.67
And so it's easy to think
how a little blob of jelly
00:19:36.71\00:19:39.67
might emerge in
a warm little pond.
00:19:39.71\00:19:42.68
Yes.
00:19:42.71\00:19:44.05
But it's hard to envision
how a molecular scale system
00:19:44.08\00:19:49.18
that is more complex than a city
00:19:49.22\00:19:51.39
could emerge through.
00:19:51.42\00:19:53.29
I think most unbelievers
don't think this through,
00:19:53.32\00:19:56.62
I don't think they think through
00:19:56.66\00:19:58.03
to the logical conclusions.
00:19:58.06\00:20:00.96
That here you've got a cell
00:20:01.00\00:20:02.33
and you got
trillions of them inside you.
00:20:02.36\00:20:04.03
And each cell is more complex
00:20:04.07\00:20:06.13
than a big city
like Los Angeles.
00:20:06.17\00:20:08.60
And scientists today
00:20:08.64\00:20:10.07
are taking some
of those intricate
00:20:10.11\00:20:12.71
workings of that cell
00:20:12.74\00:20:14.44
and they're making
super-duper computers.
00:20:14.48\00:20:17.55
Well, you know, something
else that's also interesting is,
00:20:17.58\00:20:20.68
there's an area in technology
called synthetic biology.
00:20:20.72\00:20:25.15
And the goal there is
to try to marry engineering
00:20:25.19\00:20:28.99
and biology.
00:20:29.02\00:20:30.36
And so scientists are trying
to engineer new life forms.
00:20:30.39\00:20:33.76
And as part of that,
00:20:33.80\00:20:35.13
they're now scientists
trying to create cells
00:20:35.16\00:20:37.53
in the laboratory from scratch.
00:20:37.57\00:20:39.10
Make life.
00:20:39.13\00:20:40.47
Yeah, these are
called protocells.
00:20:40.50\00:20:42.47
And when you look at
the work that's done,
00:20:42.50\00:20:45.41
it's science at its very best.
00:20:45.44\00:20:48.18
But what has been
produced is laughable
00:20:48.21\00:20:51.15
compared to the complexity
of even the most simple cell.
00:20:51.18\00:20:54.25
It's laughable?
00:20:54.28\00:20:55.62
Yeah, I mean, these are...
00:20:55.65\00:20:57.12
I want as a
biochemist, I look at this work,
00:20:57.15\00:20:59.85
and I am very impressed
00:20:59.89\00:21:01.92
because you have the
best minds in the world
00:21:01.96\00:21:03.63
producing the systems,
00:21:03.66\00:21:05.76
but they so are so far removed
00:21:05.79\00:21:08.83
from what we see in
the simplest life form
00:21:08.86\00:21:12.30
that they're leaps
and leaps and leaps away
00:21:12.33\00:21:15.20
from ever accomplishing,
00:21:15.24\00:21:16.77
truly creating life in the lab.
00:21:16.81\00:21:19.11
But what's
interesting to me is that
00:21:19.14\00:21:20.94
when you look at this work,
00:21:20.98\00:21:22.71
you have the best
minds in the world
00:21:22.74\00:21:24.31
that are relying on centuries
of scientific knowledge.
00:21:24.35\00:21:27.62
Little creators.
00:21:27.65\00:21:28.98
Yes, they are
little creators. Yeah.
00:21:29.02\00:21:31.32
And they are developing these
very sophisticated strategies
00:21:31.35\00:21:35.29
and laboratory schemes.
00:21:35.32\00:21:37.33
And then you have
highly trained scientists
00:21:37.36\00:21:38.99
that are doing
careful manipulations
00:21:39.03\00:21:41.26
under highly controlled
conditions in the lab.
00:21:41.30\00:21:44.13
And they're using
instrumentation that
00:21:44.17\00:21:46.27
in and of itself is
brilliantly designed
00:21:46.30\00:21:49.84
and they're producing a really
crude facsimile of the cell.
00:21:49.87\00:21:55.28
But what this is showing you is
00:21:55.31\00:21:57.11
how much intelligence it takes
00:21:57.15\00:21:59.68
to turn chemicals
into the simple cell.
00:21:59.71\00:22:02.28
Well, this is evidence
for the Creator, isn't it?
00:22:02.32\00:22:04.35
Yes.
00:22:04.39\00:22:05.72
And to me, this complements
00:22:05.75\00:22:07.86
the idea that we see
design in biochemical systems.
00:22:07.89\00:22:11.53
Because what this is
showing is that empirically,
00:22:11.56\00:22:13.90
in the lab, we know,
00:22:13.93\00:22:15.46
intelligent agency
is needed to make life.
00:22:15.50\00:22:18.67
And then when we
look at living systems,
00:22:18.70\00:22:20.20
we see the telltale
signature of design.
00:22:20.24\00:22:23.97
So when you
couple that together,
00:22:24.01\00:22:25.34
I think you have a
very powerful set of reasons
00:22:25.37\00:22:28.74
to think that there really is
a Creator responsible for life.
00:22:28.78\00:22:32.15
Now we've talked about this,
00:22:32.18\00:22:33.52
but I just want to
go through this again.
00:22:33.55\00:22:36.28
Tell me of the relationship
between faith and evidence,
00:22:36.32\00:22:40.39
as far as you're concerned?
00:22:40.42\00:22:41.92
Well, to me, I think
it's wrong to think that
00:22:41.96\00:22:46.39
as Christians our
faith is a blind faith.
00:22:46.43\00:22:48.60
Yes.
00:22:48.63\00:22:49.96
Our faith is anything but blind.
00:22:50.00\00:22:51.33
It's based on evidence,
00:22:51.37\00:22:53.50
there's scientific
evidence for a Creator,
00:22:53.54\00:22:56.10
for the
reliability of scripture.
00:22:56.14\00:22:57.94
There's archaeological
evidence for the reliability
00:22:57.97\00:23:00.74
of the Old and
the New Testament.
00:23:00.78\00:23:02.11
There is indeed.
00:23:02.14\00:23:03.48
There's historical arguments
00:23:03.51\00:23:04.85
we can make for the life, death,
00:23:04.88\00:23:06.21
and resurrection of Christ.
00:23:06.25\00:23:07.58
Yes.
00:23:07.62\00:23:08.95
You know, we all
have experienced,
00:23:08.98\00:23:11.79
I think, the
religious experiences
00:23:11.82\00:23:13.72
that we have as Christians,
00:23:13.76\00:23:15.09
where we
experienced God is also evidence
00:23:15.12\00:23:17.76
for why there must be a Creator
and why Christianity is true.
00:23:17.79\00:23:22.70
If somebody is just
tuning in today, doctor,
00:23:22.73\00:23:27.97
and they're on the verge
of becoming a person of faith
00:23:28.00\00:23:32.17
and becoming a Christian.
00:23:32.21\00:23:34.94
What would you
say to that person
00:23:34.98\00:23:36.78
from your own experience
00:23:36.81\00:23:38.48
because you've come
from a situation of unbelief?
00:23:38.51\00:23:41.85
Yeah.
00:23:41.88\00:23:43.22
Well, to me,
00:23:43.25\00:23:44.59
I made this point,
but I'll make it again.
00:23:44.62\00:23:46.62
It's beyond imagination
00:23:46.65\00:23:49.52
to think that the Creator
00:23:49.56\00:23:51.23
that brought
everything into existence
00:23:51.26\00:23:54.26
is made it possible for us
00:23:54.30\00:23:55.73
to be in a
relationship with Him.
00:23:55.76\00:23:58.23
And that, what keeps
us from that Holy God
00:23:58.27\00:24:01.74
is our sinful nature,
00:24:01.77\00:24:03.10
and yet it's
through the person of Christ
00:24:03.14\00:24:05.14
and the sacrifice on the cross
00:24:05.17\00:24:07.54
that we are
reconciled to our Creator.
00:24:07.58\00:24:10.41
And in that relationship
is meaning and purpose.
00:24:10.45\00:24:14.15
It's our hope, it's our destiny.
00:24:14.18\00:24:16.55
And so to me,
00:24:16.58\00:24:18.75
it's mind-blowing
to think of the love
00:24:18.79\00:24:23.43
that this Creator must have...
00:24:23.46\00:24:24.79
So what's this Creator
like, what sort of person is He?
00:24:24.83\00:24:27.63
Well, obviously, a
person of glory and majesty.
00:24:27.66\00:24:30.97
And power. And
power, a Holy Creator.
00:24:31.00\00:24:33.77
Yeah.
00:24:33.80\00:24:35.14
But when I look at
the record of nature,
00:24:35.17\00:24:36.50
I see also beauty and
elegance, I see creativity.
00:24:36.54\00:24:41.14
So I see this
Creator, is also an artist,
00:24:41.18\00:24:44.98
where there's a flair.
00:24:45.01\00:24:47.35
I mean, who wouldn't want
to know a Creator like that.
00:24:47.38\00:24:51.05
And a great designer.
00:24:51.09\00:24:52.42
A great designer, but
also ultimately, a Creator,
00:24:52.45\00:24:56.06
that is gracious,
and merciful, and loving,
00:24:56.09\00:25:00.13
and just simply desires
for us to turn towards Him.
00:25:00.16\00:25:05.63
And He became a man.
00:25:05.67\00:25:07.20
Yeah, that again,
00:25:07.24\00:25:09.17
this Creator
wants us to know Him.
00:25:09.20\00:25:12.24
And this is what
science is telling us
00:25:12.27\00:25:14.08
is that the Creator
wants us to know Him.
00:25:14.11\00:25:17.21
But He
ultimately revealed Himself
00:25:17.25\00:25:19.61
most perfectly
through the person of Christ.
00:25:19.65\00:25:22.48
That's amazing to
think that this Creator
00:25:22.52\00:25:24.79
became part of His creation
00:25:24.82\00:25:26.49
so that we could enter
into a relationship with Him.
00:25:26.52\00:25:30.29
And that's the
greatest truth of all.
00:25:30.33\00:25:33.56
We want to thank you today
for joining the Carter Report.
00:25:33.60\00:25:36.97
I wanna thank you,
Dr. Fazale. Thank you.
00:25:37.00\00:25:39.23
You've been a fantastic guest.
00:25:39.27\00:25:42.20
Please write to me,
John Carter, P.O. Box 1900,
00:25:42.24\00:25:45.17
Thousand Oaks, California 91358.
00:25:45.21\00:25:47.18
In Australia,
00:25:47.21\00:25:48.54
write to the
address on the screen.
00:25:48.58\00:25:50.65
And we're going
to put up the address
00:25:50.68\00:25:52.28
of Reasons to Believe
in Southern California.
00:25:52.31\00:25:55.55
Write to Dr. Fazale Rana
00:25:55.58\00:25:58.29
at Reasons to Believe
00:25:58.32\00:26:01.42
because there are
reasons to believe.
00:26:01.46\00:26:05.09
And the good news is
00:26:05.13\00:26:06.70
that the God who
made the universe made you
00:26:06.73\00:26:10.40
and He loves you.
00:26:10.43\00:26:12.57
And so until next time,
thank you for joining us.
00:26:12.60\00:26:15.80
And may God bless you.
00:26:15.84\00:26:17.17
Hello, friend. I'm John Carter.
00:26:24.85\00:26:27.28
Behind me is the
great city of Manila,
00:26:27.32\00:26:31.39
the capital of the Philippines.
00:26:31.42\00:26:33.69
Did you know,
this is quite amazing.
00:26:33.72\00:26:35.59
There are more
people living in this area
00:26:35.62\00:26:37.79
than in New York City.
00:26:37.83\00:26:39.79
And Christ died
for these people.
00:26:39.83\00:26:42.63
We came here, oh,
long time ago back in 1984.
00:26:42.66\00:26:48.67
What's that, 34, 35 years ago,
00:26:48.70\00:26:51.57
and we came here with
a team of young people
00:26:51.61\00:26:53.91
and we came to the PICC.
00:26:53.94\00:26:57.05
It is our intent to come here,
00:26:57.08\00:26:59.41
hire the biggest
hall that's available,
00:26:59.45\00:27:01.48
the greatest outdoor
stadium, whatever it takes.
00:27:01.52\00:27:05.92
You've got more than
20 million souls out here.
00:27:05.95\00:27:10.86
And I say it again.
00:27:10.89\00:27:12.23
These are people
for whom Christ died.
00:27:12.26\00:27:14.96
I'm asking you to pray
00:27:15.00\00:27:16.33
for the people
of the Philippines.
00:27:16.36\00:27:18.53
Please pray for the
people here in Metro Manila.
00:27:18.57\00:27:22.44
And please write to me
John Carter, P.O. Box 1900,
00:27:22.47\00:27:26.91
Thousand Oaks, California 91358.
00:27:26.94\00:27:30.35
In Australia,
00:27:30.38\00:27:31.71
write to me at
Terrigal, at the address
00:27:31.75\00:27:33.65
that is now
showing on the screen.
00:27:33.68\00:27:38.55
We're back in Manila,
00:27:38.59\00:27:40.52
and we're back
with a message from God,
00:27:40.56\00:27:43.29
that message is,
Christ died for you.
00:27:43.32\00:27:48.46
And Christ is coming again soon.
00:27:48.50\00:27:53.84
Please support us.
00:27:53.87\00:27:55.20
Write to me
today, P.O. Box 1900,
00:27:55.24\00:27:58.17
Thousand Oaks, California.
00:27:58.21\00:28:00.08
And also write to me
at Terrigal in Australia.
00:28:00.11\00:28:04.01
Thank you for your support.
00:28:04.05\00:28:06.72
And God bless you.
00:28:06.75\00:28:08.08
For a copy of today's program,
00:28:22.86\00:28:24.83
please contact
us at P.O. Box 1900,
00:28:24.87\00:28:28.47
Thousand Oaks, California 91358.
00:28:28.50\00:28:32.64
Or in Australia,
00:28:32.67\00:28:34.34
contact us at P.O. Box 861,
00:28:34.38\00:28:37.78
Terrigal, New South Wales 2260.
00:28:37.81\00:28:41.95
This program is made possible
00:28:41.98\00:28:43.89
through the generous
support of viewers like you.
00:28:43.92\00:28:46.79
We thank you for
your continued support.
00:28:46.82\00:28:49.76
May God richly bless you.
00:28:49.79\00:28:51.49