Hello, friend, I'm John Carter.
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Welcome today to
the Carter Report.
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Our topic today
is Faith and Science.
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Can you believe both?
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My special guest is
from Reasons to Believe,
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Dr. Fazale Rana.
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Welcome today to
the Carter Report.
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I'm John Carter in Moscow.
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In Havana, Cuba.
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Now in Kiev, the
capital of Ukraine.
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I'm John Carter in Petra.
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Right here in Communist China.
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Reporting from India.
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Hi, I'm John Carter
in the Solomon Islands.
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I'm John Carter in Soweto.
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From El Salvador.
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I'm John Carter
in Sydney, Australia.
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John Carter brings
together Faith and Science.
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With us today is Dr. Fazale Rana
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who comes to us
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from that great
Christian organization,
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scientific organization,
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Reasons to Believe.
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They believe that faith
and science are compatible.
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Would you believe it?
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Dr. Rana, welcome today.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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It's a pleasure to be here.
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It's wonderful
to have you with us.
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Our time that we've
spent with the people
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from Reasons to Believe
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has been some of
the best experiences
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we've ever, ever enjoyed.
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You people believe that faith
and science are compatible.
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That's right.
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And it all is based on
what Scripture teaches us.
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Because the Bible tells us
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that God has
revealed Himself to us
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through the record of nature,
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and if science is
the study of nature,
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if it's the study of creation,
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then we would expect to
see pointers to our Creator
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in scientific discovery.
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Now, you know, a little about
Richard Dawkins, don't you?
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Yeah.
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He's the great British
guy from Oxford University,
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who is a great scientist
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and a great atheist.
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He wrote the book,
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"The God Delusion,"
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and also the book,
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"The Blind Watchmaker,"
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if I got it right,
The Blind Watchmaker.
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That's right.
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And he says that
everything that appears was made
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by not just by the watchmaker,
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but by the blind watchmaker.
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So everything that we see
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is the product of time
plus matter plus chance.
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Have I got it
right? That's right.
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Okay.
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Here's a question, doctor.
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You're a
Christian and a biochemist.
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So you're a scientist.
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Is faith and science compatible?
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But Dawkins says,
"No," The Blind Watchmaker.
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Well, faith and
science are compatible.
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And it's not
just me who says that,
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as a Christian and a scientist,
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I'm not an oddity,
at least not an oddity
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because I believe in science
and in the Christian faith.
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At least that's not the reason.
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That's right.
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But, you know, it's interesting.
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There was a pew survey
published a few years ago now,
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that showed over
30% of scientists
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in the United States
believe in a personal God,
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believe in a Creator.
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How many? What's the percent?
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Over 30%... Over
30%, about a third.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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So that's saying
something rather significant...
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Yes, it is. Yes, it is.
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That you can be
a person of science
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and a person of faith
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and that your life can harmonize
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around those two ideas.
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Dawkins and, you know,
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he is a quite an
aggressive atheist.
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You've heard him, I've
heard him and his debates
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with Professor John Lennox.
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He makes some very,
very powerful assertions
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and he mocks those
people who've got faith.
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He say, you
know, you've got faith.
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I've got science.
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But if you ask him the question,
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do you believe in all of
these things that you do?
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He says, "Yes, I believe them."
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So that means he's
really a very religious man.
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Yes. Would you say that?
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I would.
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I mean, at the end of
the day, we all have faith,
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regardless of our worldview.
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Faith in
something. Faith in something.
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And so if you are a
Christian, then you have faith
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that a Creator exist
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and is responsible for the world
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that we see.
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If you are an atheist,
you will, you have faith,
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that mechanism, that
blind unguided mechanism
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somehow explains the universe
and life within the universe.
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And so everybody has faith.
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It's just a question,
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whose faith is best supported
by the evidence at hand?
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Say that again,
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whose faith is best supported
by the evidence at hand?
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So you believe in a faith
that is supported by evidence?
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Yes, I do.
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Did you get this?
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Faith supported, say it again?
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Faith supported by
the evidence at hand.
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You know, and to me, you know,
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the biblical view of faith
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is not just blindly
believing that God exists.
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Well, some people
think it is, though.
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Yes.
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But that's not the
biblical concept of faith.
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The biblical
concept of faith is that
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there are reasons that undergird
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the leap of faith that we take,
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that faith is an act of trust,
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but we trust because we
have reasons to believe,
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we have reasons to think
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that placing our faith in Christ
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or in God's existence has merit.
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Doctor, I was
watching a television program,
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a big religious program,
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and it showed a huge
gathering here in a big church,
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a super church in North America.
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And the question was postulated,
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why we believe in the
resurrection of Christ?
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And they asked this charismatic,
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young American pastor, "
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Why do you believe in
the resurrection of Christ?"
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And he got up and he
went to the microphone
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and to thunderous
applause, he made the statement,
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"I believe in the
resurrection of Christ
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because of my faith."
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Everybody...
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I thought part of my saying,
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and I thought that was about
the most inappropriate answer
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a person could ever give.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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Because I believe in
the resurrection of Christ
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not because of blind faith,
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I believe in the resurrection
of Christ because it happened.
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Yeah.
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And I believe that there's
evidence that it happened.
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Right.
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We know...
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Hundreds of eyewitnesses. Yeah.
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And some of them wrote it down.
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The evidence is strong as
is used in any court today.
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Eyewitness evidence also.
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Other evidence, what
happened to the body,
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he was the body and
what happened to the body?
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The only
solution to that question
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is that the body got resurrected
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and came out of the grave.
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And, you know,
many of these arguments.
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Yes.
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But with you and I say
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to the
television audience today,
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we do not believe
in faith, in faith.
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We don't believe in blind faith,
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we believe in a faith
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that is based upon
hard scientific fact.
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That's right.
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And the bottom line is that
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the scientific evidence shows us
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that the
universe had a beginning.
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And this is exactly
what we see in Genesis 1:1,
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"In the beginning God created
the heavens and the earth."
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We see design in the universe.
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But tell me the scientific
evidence for a beginning?
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Well, for example,
there's something called
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the cosmic background radiation.
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Yes.
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And that radiation is
the leftover radiation
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from the
beginning of the universe,
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from the event that
brought the universe
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into existence.
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And so that would
be just one example.
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In fact, there's even
ripples in that radiation
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that are exactly
what you would predict
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if indeed the
universe had a beginning.
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So that would be an example
of some of the hard evidence
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that indicates the
universe had a beginning.
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Or if it had a beginning,
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there must be
something outside of universe...
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There must be a beginner.
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That caused that, exactly.
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Or when we look at the universe,
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we see design or when we
look in biological systems,
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we see design.
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Design comes from a designer.
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And so these are just two...
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That's
reasonable, isn't it? Yes.
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These are just two
broad categories of evidences
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that we could use to
say that a Creator is real.
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Is it not true that
for many, many, many years,
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the great
scientists in the world
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did not believe in a
beginning of the universe,
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but that in fact, they
believed in the steady-state?
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That's right.
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What was the
steady-state theory?
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It was the idea that
the universe was eternal.
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That was
infinite and extent. Yeah.
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Yeah, and that it had
all, it's a brute reality
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it always had been here.
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And Einstein once
even believed this...
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Yes. Yes.
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Because he reflected
the thinking of virtually
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all of the scientists.
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And interestingly enough,
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Einstein's theory of
general relativity indicated
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that the universe
must have a beginning.
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But he couldn't believe
it. He couldn't believe it.
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So he put in a fudge
factor into his equations
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to prevent the
universe from having a beginning
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and called it
his greatest blunder
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as a scientist
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because Edwin
Hubble showed clearly
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that the universe was
expanding from a beginning.
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Yes.
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And so for many, many years,
the world's great scientists,
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including Albert
Einstein believed
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in the steady-state theory
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that the universe
had always existed.
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Yep.
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And yet there was an
annoying little text over here
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in Genesis that said,
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"In the beginning God created
the heavens and the earth."
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Why are we certain...
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What is some of
the scientific evidence
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to support the idea
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that is called
today by every scientist,
00:10:02.06\00:10:04.93
they call it the Big Bang.
00:10:04.97\00:10:06.30
Yeah.
00:10:06.33\00:10:07.67
Now some
Christians are turned up
00:10:07.70\00:10:09.04
by the
terminology, the Big Bang,
00:10:09.07\00:10:10.41
but they don't need
to be worried about that.
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When scientists
talk about the Big Bang,
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they're talking about a time
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when there was
nothing, then all of a sudden
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there was everything.
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Give me some
more of the evidence
00:10:18.38\00:10:19.71
for the Big Bang
00:10:19.75\00:10:21.08
for the point of cosmic creation
00:10:21.12\00:10:22.68
that we believe today?
00:10:22.72\00:10:24.05
Well, the classic evidence
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is that the
universe is expanding,
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and that the further
an object is away from us,
00:10:27.76\00:10:30.19
the faster it's expanding.
00:10:30.23\00:10:31.56
Now, tell me more about this?
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So and so, well, the idea
00:10:33.13\00:10:34.80
is that if think of the universe
00:10:34.83\00:10:36.70
as if it was like
a grenade exploding.
00:10:36.73\00:10:38.67
Yes.
00:10:38.70\00:10:40.04
If a grenade explodes,
if you stop that explosion
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at a point in time,
00:10:42.20\00:10:43.84
you would see that the shrapnel
was at different distances
00:10:43.87\00:10:47.18
from the point of the explosion,
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or the shrapnel
that's the furthest away
00:10:49.41\00:10:53.11
is flying at a faster rate
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than the shrapnel that's closer
to the point of the explosion.
00:10:54.82\00:10:57.92
Yeah.
00:10:57.95\00:10:59.29
And this is exactly
what the universe looks like,
00:10:59.32\00:11:01.29
the objects
that are further away
00:11:01.32\00:11:03.32
are accelerating away
from us faster and faster.
00:11:03.36\00:11:06.59
The objects that are closer
are moving at a slower rate.
00:11:06.63\00:11:11.03
And so when you
run it all the universe
00:11:11.07\00:11:12.90
backward in time,
00:11:12.93\00:11:14.30
you wind up with this point,
00:11:14.34\00:11:16.20
this beginning that suggests
the universe wasn't infinite
00:11:16.24\00:11:19.51
and eternal, but it
recently came into existence.
00:11:19.54\00:11:23.38
And so this is, again, shocking
00:11:23.41\00:11:26.51
when this was
discovered this was shocking
00:11:26.55\00:11:28.82
to the scientific community.
00:11:28.85\00:11:31.15
They said they were afraid of it
00:11:31.19\00:11:32.52
because of the
theological implications.
00:11:32.55\00:11:34.89
Yes. Yes.
00:11:34.92\00:11:37.73
That's almost
sounded a little bit
00:11:37.76\00:11:39.39
like religious prejudice.
00:11:39.43\00:11:40.76
Yes.
00:11:40.80\00:11:42.13
We can't accept
this scientific idea
00:11:42.16\00:11:43.77
because it's against
our preconceived ideas.
00:11:43.80\00:11:47.04
All right, the
universe had a beginning.
00:11:47.07\00:11:48.94
That is a fact. We
know when it took place.
00:11:48.97\00:11:51.61
And we have a ton of
evidence to believe it.
00:11:51.64\00:11:54.84
This is not faith.
00:11:54.88\00:11:56.34
We have a ton of
evidence to believe it.
00:11:56.38\00:11:58.28
It is scientific, the
universe had a beginning.
00:11:58.31\00:12:00.88
Genesis 1:1, is absolutely true,
00:12:00.92\00:12:03.18
"In the beginning God created
the heavens and the earth."
00:12:03.22\00:12:05.82
Dawkins says, Doctor,
00:12:05.85\00:12:09.39
"That you can't
believe in God today
00:12:09.42\00:12:11.39
because of recent
scientific discoveries."
00:12:11.43\00:12:15.16
To me I would say that
00:12:15.20\00:12:18.23
recent scientific discoveries
make disbelief in God
00:12:18.27\00:12:21.47
impossible not make
belief in God impossible.
00:12:21.50\00:12:25.31
So to me that the
scientific evidence screams
00:12:25.34\00:12:28.91
that there must be a Creator.
00:12:28.94\00:12:31.88
And to me that I think
the most compelling evidence
00:12:31.91\00:12:36.25
and I'm biased, of
course, because I'm a biochemist
00:12:36.28\00:12:38.65
comes from the
arena of biochemistry.
00:12:38.69\00:12:40.32
Yes.
00:12:40.36\00:12:41.69
You know, the molecules
that make up living systems,
00:12:41.72\00:12:43.76
the molecules that
are found inside the cell,
00:12:43.79\00:12:46.09
those systems to me,
00:12:46.13\00:12:48.13
just scream design,
00:12:48.16\00:12:50.93
scream the
handiwork of a Creator.
00:12:50.97\00:12:53.20
I want you to
talk to me about this
00:12:53.23\00:12:54.90
because, you know, I've
read some of your books,
00:12:54.94\00:12:57.41
and I've been
blessed by your books,
00:12:57.44\00:12:59.01
and I greatly appreciate
the work of reasons to believe
00:12:59.04\00:13:03.48
because they're bringing
forth scientific evidence
00:13:03.51\00:13:07.42
so that a thinking honest person
00:13:07.45\00:13:09.28
can believe in God.
00:13:09.32\00:13:12.19
You folks don't say to people,
00:13:12.22\00:13:14.49
we want you to take
00:13:14.52\00:13:15.86
the existential leap
of faith and just believe.
00:13:15.89\00:13:18.53
You're saying,
here we got the real,
00:13:18.56\00:13:20.80
here we got the evidence.
00:13:20.83\00:13:23.50
Tell me some of the evidence
from the world of biochemistry,
00:13:23.53\00:13:29.34
from the world of biology,
00:13:29.37\00:13:31.97
you know, I don't
know anything about this.
00:13:32.01\00:13:34.28
And I think some of the folks
who are watching the program
00:13:34.31\00:13:36.51
won't know much about
it either at right now,
00:13:36.54\00:13:38.95
but they're going
to know a lot about it
00:13:38.98\00:13:40.32
after listening to you.
00:13:40.35\00:13:41.68
Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:41.72\00:13:43.05
And tell us about the world
00:13:43.08\00:13:44.42
of the cell and
all of this stuff?
00:13:44.45\00:13:45.79
Well, I mean, yeah,
the one way to think
00:13:45.82\00:13:47.16
about the cell is like,
it's like a very large city
00:13:47.19\00:13:50.66
where there's all
kinds of activities
00:13:50.69\00:13:52.66
taking place inside the cell.
00:13:52.69\00:13:54.73
How big is the cell?
00:13:54.76\00:13:56.10
Well, it depends on the type
of cell that you're looking at,
00:13:56.13\00:13:59.57
the smallest cells
would be on the order
00:13:59.60\00:14:01.70
of about one micron,
00:14:01.74\00:14:03.67
that would be about
one millionth of a meter.
00:14:03.71\00:14:06.74
And some larger cells would be
00:14:06.78\00:14:09.94
on the order of
100 microns or so.
00:14:09.98\00:14:12.81
So you can't see
them with the naked eye?
00:14:12.85\00:14:14.62
No, no, you have to have
a microscope to see them.
00:14:14.65\00:14:17.79
And you've seen
them tons of times?
00:14:17.82\00:14:19.59
Yes, I have.
00:14:19.62\00:14:20.96
But to me, it's
not the cell itself
00:14:20.99\00:14:23.89
that's interesting.
00:14:23.93\00:14:25.26
It's all the stuff
going on inside the cell.
00:14:25.29\00:14:27.10
So you get this tiny,
itsy-bitsy little thing
00:14:27.13\00:14:30.27
that you can't
see with your eye.
00:14:30.30\00:14:32.27
But each cell is like a
little city or a big city.
00:14:32.30\00:14:35.44
It's like a massive city,
like the city of Los Angeles.
00:14:35.47\00:14:38.71
There's all kinds
of activity going on.
00:14:38.74\00:14:41.01
Even in the simpler
cell, it's staggering,
00:14:41.04\00:14:44.31
it's almost
impossible to fully grasp,
00:14:44.35\00:14:47.12
even as a biochemist.
00:14:47.15\00:14:48.48
Does Dawkins know
how complex the cell is?
00:14:48.52\00:14:51.12
Yeah, of course, he does.
00:14:51.15\00:14:52.55
He knows that for well,
00:14:52.59\00:14:54.69
but it's not just simply
that the cell is complex.
00:14:54.72\00:14:58.03
It's the nature
of the complexity
00:14:58.06\00:15:00.20
that to me is mind boggling.
00:15:00.23\00:15:02.50
You know, there's an elegance,
there's a sophistication to it
00:15:02.53\00:15:07.40
but there's also an eeriness
to that complexity in that.
00:15:07.44\00:15:11.74
When we look at the cell,
00:15:11.77\00:15:13.17
we see systems that look
just like the types of systems
00:15:13.21\00:15:17.05
that we would
build as designers.
00:15:17.08\00:15:19.28
You know, every
city needs energy
00:15:19.31\00:15:21.08
to run its operations,
00:15:21.12\00:15:22.45
well, the cell is no different.
00:15:22.48\00:15:24.29
And in fact, it has
these little power plants
00:15:24.32\00:15:26.49
called mitochondria
00:15:26.52\00:15:28.02
that are producing
energy for the cell.
00:15:28.06\00:15:30.53
And integral to
that energy production...
00:15:30.56\00:15:32.39
And they're really
little powerhouses?
00:15:32.43\00:15:34.16
They literally are powerhouse.
00:15:34.20\00:15:35.83
They really are? Yes.
00:15:35.86\00:15:37.20
And you've seen them?
00:15:37.23\00:15:38.57
I've seen them
and I've studied them,
00:15:38.60\00:15:41.07
you know, and one of
the protein complexes
00:15:41.10\00:15:44.87
that's in this powerhouse
is called ATP synthase.
00:15:44.91\00:15:48.58
That's a mouthful,
00:15:48.61\00:15:50.08
but it's literally
00:15:50.11\00:15:51.45
an electrically
powered rotary motor,
00:15:51.48\00:15:53.82
where there's an
electrical current
00:15:53.85\00:15:56.25
that flows
through a motor component
00:15:56.28\00:15:59.55
that's embedded in a membrane,
00:15:59.59\00:16:01.09
and as that
positively charged proton
00:16:01.12\00:16:03.86
makes its way
through the channel,
00:16:03.89\00:16:05.53
it rotates that motor.
00:16:05.56\00:16:07.60
And as it
rotates, it causes a rotor
00:16:07.63\00:16:10.07
to rotate this extending
from the surface of the motor.
00:16:10.10\00:16:12.20
Can this be seen? Yes.
00:16:12.23\00:16:13.87
And people have
produced animations of this.
00:16:13.90\00:16:16.50
It's amazing. It's
literally a machine.
00:16:16.54\00:16:19.27
And there's a
cam at a right angle.
00:16:19.31\00:16:21.44
There's a turbine, and
that cam hits the turbine
00:16:21.48\00:16:24.41
and it causes this
mechanical movement
00:16:24.45\00:16:26.92
that then that energy is used
to form a compound called ATP,
00:16:26.95\00:16:31.45
that is like the
gasoline inside the cell.
00:16:31.49\00:16:33.99
Yeah.
00:16:34.02\00:16:35.36
But this is an electrically
powered rotary motor
00:16:35.39\00:16:37.43
that operates at
almost 100% efficiency.
00:16:37.46\00:16:40.70
It's a frictionless motor.
00:16:40.73\00:16:42.96
And in fact,
there are scientists.
00:16:43.00\00:16:44.57
It's better than a Tesla.
00:16:44.60\00:16:46.23
It's much better than a Tesla.
00:16:46.27\00:16:48.67
But it is one of the most
remarkable protein complexes
00:16:48.70\00:16:52.87
in nature.
00:16:52.91\00:16:54.24
But here at the powerhouse,
you have this in effect,
00:16:54.28\00:16:58.05
this
electrically powered turbine
00:16:58.08\00:17:00.55
that is generating the
energy that the cell uses.
00:17:00.58\00:17:03.92
And this is just one example.
00:17:03.95\00:17:06.82
But this happened by itself.
00:17:06.86\00:17:09.72
Well... It happened...
00:17:09.76\00:17:11.99
Doctor, we got to
be scientific now.
00:17:12.03\00:17:15.06
Dr. Dawkins would tell me.
00:17:15.10\00:17:18.47
It was made by a
blind watchmaker.
00:17:18.50\00:17:20.50
And nobody knows where
the watchmaker came from,
00:17:20.54\00:17:24.24
but somehow a
watchmaker came along.
00:17:24.27\00:17:27.04
And all of this,
it just happened.
00:17:27.08\00:17:30.28
It was a product of
time, plus matter, plus chance.
00:17:30.31\00:17:35.68
But I mean,
think of it this way,
00:17:35.72\00:17:37.62
if you opened up the hood
of your automobile engine.
00:17:37.65\00:17:40.12
Yeah.
00:17:40.16\00:17:41.49
Would you say a blind watchmaker
00:17:41.52\00:17:42.86
produced that engine?
00:17:42.89\00:17:44.23
Or would you say
that there was a mind
00:17:44.26\00:17:46.96
that conceived that design
00:17:47.00\00:17:49.33
and then took deliberate
steps to implement that design?
00:17:49.36\00:17:53.90
And when you see the
same thing in the cell,
00:17:53.94\00:17:57.41
the natural inclination would be
00:17:57.44\00:17:59.67
that this is really
the product of a mind
00:17:59.71\00:18:02.11
to say that this is a
blind watchmaker to me
00:18:02.14\00:18:05.11
is where the leap
of faith is coming in.
00:18:05.15\00:18:07.18
Yeah.
00:18:07.22\00:18:08.55
Now something else says...
00:18:08.58\00:18:09.92
So Richard Dawkins is
really a very religious man.
00:18:09.95\00:18:13.39
Yeah.
00:18:13.42\00:18:14.76
He has a
tremendous amount of faith.
00:18:14.79\00:18:16.12
He does.
00:18:16.16\00:18:17.49
And he's got a
big cult following.
00:18:17.53\00:18:18.86
He does.
00:18:18.89\00:18:20.23
And they have a church they call
00:18:20.26\00:18:21.60
the church of the first atheist.
00:18:21.63\00:18:22.96
Yes.
00:18:23.00\00:18:24.33
This is true, isn't it? It is.
00:18:24.37\00:18:25.70
I'm not trying to be funny,
but this is absolutely true.
00:18:25.73\00:18:27.07
It is true.
00:18:27.10\00:18:28.44
Atheists say, we've got
facts we believe in science.
00:18:28.47\00:18:30.47
No, no, no, you
believe in faith.
00:18:30.51\00:18:32.84
Tell me more about this,
00:18:32.87\00:18:34.24
this tiny little
thing, this cell thing?
00:18:34.28\00:18:36.61
Now, something
that keeps me awake
00:18:36.64\00:18:38.41
at night in a good
way is the fact that DNA
00:18:38.45\00:18:43.15
which is the set of
instructions in the cell
00:18:43.18\00:18:46.72
that actually tells the cell
00:18:46.76\00:18:48.49
how to make all these
different protein machines
00:18:48.52\00:18:51.26
that we're talking about is
00:18:51.29\00:18:53.66
it contains digital information,
00:18:53.70\00:18:55.73
the information
in DNA is digitized.
00:18:55.76\00:18:58.20
Tell me about DNA?
00:18:58.23\00:19:00.10
DNA is the...
00:19:00.14\00:19:02.54
Like I said, the
set of instructions
00:19:02.57\00:19:04.37
inside the cell.
00:19:04.41\00:19:05.74
What's it stand for?
Deoxyribonucleic acid.
00:19:05.77\00:19:09.74
Okay, I'll remember.
00:19:09.78\00:19:13.15
But it's
essentially, you can think of it
00:19:13.18\00:19:15.95
as just a
string of digital data.
00:19:15.98\00:19:18.59
And it's tiny?
00:19:18.62\00:19:20.39
It's extremely tiny.
00:19:20.42\00:19:21.76
But...
00:19:21.79\00:19:23.12
You can't see any of this stuff?
00:19:23.16\00:19:24.49
No, but there's massive amounts
of it too inside the cell.
00:19:24.53\00:19:26.13
And it's inside the cell
00:19:26.16\00:19:28.26
that is so tiny that
you can't see the cell.
00:19:28.30\00:19:30.17
Right, but what's
interesting is that
00:19:30.20\00:19:31.93
there are these protein machines
00:19:31.97\00:19:33.54
that manipulate DNA.
00:19:33.57\00:19:35.44
And people have
recognized recently
00:19:35.47\00:19:38.27
that those machines
that are manipulating
00:19:38.31\00:19:39.97
that digital information
00:19:40.01\00:19:41.74
are literally operating
like a computer system.
00:19:41.78\00:19:45.41
It's literally a computer system
00:19:45.45\00:19:47.58
that is taking
place inside the cell.
00:19:47.62\00:19:50.02
It's incredible
all of this, isn't it?
00:19:50.05\00:19:51.79
In fact,
00:19:51.82\00:19:53.62
the way the cell manipulates DNA
00:19:53.66\00:19:55.42
is so much like a computer,
00:19:55.46\00:19:57.43
that it's given
birth to a whole new area
00:19:57.46\00:19:59.73
of nanotechnology
called DNA computing.
00:19:59.76\00:20:02.30
That's to copy it.
00:20:02.33\00:20:03.67
Yes, where scientists
00:20:03.70\00:20:05.03
are literally building
computers in the lab now
00:20:05.07\00:20:07.24
using DNA and
the protein machines
00:20:07.27\00:20:10.21
that manipulate DNA
00:20:10.24\00:20:11.57
and they're held in
these little tiny test tubes
00:20:11.61\00:20:13.61
that are that big.
00:20:13.64\00:20:15.01
And they're more powerful
00:20:15.04\00:20:16.78
than the most
powerful supercomputer system
00:20:16.81\00:20:19.18
we've ever built
as a human being.
00:20:19.21\00:20:22.12
I find this
almost incomprehensible.
00:20:22.15\00:20:24.29
You're saying they're building
tiny little computers today...
00:20:24.32\00:20:28.62
Yes. Replicating
the DNA in a cell.
00:20:28.66\00:20:31.59
Yep.
00:20:31.63\00:20:32.96
And these tiny things
are more powerful than...
00:20:32.99\00:20:35.86
Yes.
00:20:35.90\00:20:37.23
My iPhone?
00:20:37.27\00:20:38.63
Yes. Yes.
00:20:38.67\00:20:40.07
And so to me, you
know, back to this idea,
00:20:40.10\00:20:44.04
if you saw an
iPhone in the beach,
00:20:44.07\00:20:46.57
you know, sitting on the ground,
00:20:46.61\00:20:48.88
what would you conclude?
00:20:48.91\00:20:50.38
That was...
00:20:50.41\00:20:52.08
It just happened by
itself, nobody made it.
00:20:52.11\00:20:54.48
That's right. Yeah.
00:20:54.52\00:20:56.58
No, of course,
we would conclude,
00:20:56.62\00:20:58.65
that this is the
product of a mind.
00:20:58.69\00:21:00.39
Yes.
00:21:00.42\00:21:01.76
Because I mean,
at the end of the day
00:21:01.79\00:21:03.12
cell phones are computers.
00:21:03.16\00:21:04.49
Of course, they are.
00:21:04.53\00:21:05.86
You know, and you could argue
00:21:05.89\00:21:07.23
a computer is the pinnacle
00:21:07.26\00:21:08.60
of our
engineering accomplishment.
00:21:08.63\00:21:09.96
Now, this is new to me.
00:21:10.00\00:21:11.33
Tell me about
00:21:11.37\00:21:12.70
how they're building these
tiny, tiny, powerful computers?
00:21:12.73\00:21:15.67
Well, I mean, they're
basically throwing the DNA
00:21:15.70\00:21:18.31
into a test tube with,
along with the proteins
00:21:18.34\00:21:21.01
and by playing around
00:21:21.04\00:21:22.78
with the
digital data in the DNA,
00:21:22.81\00:21:25.78
and by adding the right proteins
00:21:25.81\00:21:27.82
at the right time,
00:21:27.85\00:21:29.18
they can carry out very
complex computer operations.
00:21:29.22\00:21:32.32
And these are a
tiny, tiny, tiny,
00:21:32.35\00:21:34.69
how tiny are these computers?
00:21:34.72\00:21:36.73
Well, I mean,
these are essentially
00:21:36.76\00:21:38.86
at the molecular scale.
00:21:38.89\00:21:40.80
But I mean, in the lab,
00:21:40.83\00:21:42.33
the best you can
do is manipulate them
00:21:42.36\00:21:44.07
in a little tube like this.
00:21:44.10\00:21:45.43
But even in a sense
in that little test tube,
00:21:45.47\00:21:49.14
there are millions
and millions and millions
00:21:49.17\00:21:52.77
of DNA computers all
working simultaneously
00:21:52.81\00:21:55.81
or operating systems
all working simultaneously
00:21:55.84\00:21:59.05
inside that test tube
00:21:59.08\00:22:01.38
to carry out these
complex operations.
00:22:01.42\00:22:03.49
Now, my television
audience is going to say this,
00:22:03.52\00:22:07.16
I hope, I hope
you're going to say this.
00:22:07.19\00:22:10.09
If everything you
telling us today is true,
00:22:10.13\00:22:13.03
and I've got no doubt
00:22:13.06\00:22:14.76
that it is true.
00:22:14.80\00:22:16.77
Why are there atheists?
00:22:16.80\00:22:18.60
Why is Richard
Dawkins an atheist?
00:22:18.63\00:22:21.00
How does he
handle this information?
00:22:21.04\00:22:24.11
Why does he say it was caused
00:22:24.14\00:22:25.54
by a blind watchmaker?
00:22:25.57\00:22:27.41
And I say this with hopefully
some measure of caution,
00:22:27.44\00:22:32.81
in respect, but I don't
think people are atheists
00:22:32.85\00:22:36.62
because of the lack of evidence
00:22:36.65\00:22:38.75
for God's existence.
00:22:38.79\00:22:40.12
Say that again.
00:22:40.16\00:22:41.49
You don't think they're atheists
00:22:41.52\00:22:42.86
because of the lack of evidence.
00:22:42.89\00:22:44.59
Yeah.
00:22:44.63\00:22:45.96
I think at the end of the day,
00:22:45.99\00:22:47.33
it boils down to they
simply don't want God to exist,
00:22:47.36\00:22:51.33
and appealing to evolution
00:22:51.37\00:22:53.70
and the blind watchmaker
is just a convenient way
00:22:53.74\00:22:57.34
to sidestep the
reality of a Creator.
00:22:57.37\00:23:01.38
And could it possibly
be true that some atheists
00:23:01.41\00:23:05.71
have been terribly
treated by so called Christians.
00:23:05.75\00:23:11.62
Children have been abused
00:23:11.65\00:23:13.59
by members of our
other religious order.
00:23:13.62\00:23:16.96
And these people have
got so much pain and hurt
00:23:16.99\00:23:22.36
and maybe hate in their heart.
00:23:22.40\00:23:25.40
And they direct this
towards the God of the Bible
00:23:25.43\00:23:28.94
and therefore they
become abusive of that God.
00:23:28.97\00:23:31.21
Yeah.
00:23:31.24\00:23:32.57
But is it not true, doctor,
00:23:32.61\00:23:34.84
that people who've
done these horrendous acts
00:23:34.88\00:23:38.01
in history in the
Inquisition and the pedophiles.
00:23:38.05\00:23:41.35
They're the very, very,
very opposite of Christ.
00:23:41.38\00:23:44.39
Yes, exactly.
00:23:44.42\00:23:45.75
I mean, people can
carry out horrific acts
00:23:45.79\00:23:49.46
in the name of
the Christian faith.
00:23:49.49\00:23:50.96
Yes, the priests
in the Inquisition.
00:23:50.99\00:23:53.63
But it doesn't mean
that they are operating
00:23:53.66\00:23:56.73
in a way that would
be pleasing to Christ...
00:23:56.77\00:23:58.67
No, no, no.
00:23:58.70\00:24:00.04
Or that they're
following genuinely following
00:24:00.07\00:24:01.40
the teachings of Christ.
00:24:01.44\00:24:02.77
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:02.80\00:24:04.14
And so I think
we have to separate
00:24:04.17\00:24:05.51
Christ from Christians.
00:24:05.54\00:24:07.24
Yes.
00:24:07.28\00:24:08.61
You know, because
at the end of the day
00:24:08.64\00:24:09.98
Christians are human beings
00:24:10.01\00:24:11.35
and we all sadly, we
all hurt one another,
00:24:11.38\00:24:13.75
even with the
best of intentions.
00:24:13.78\00:24:15.12
But some do it much
more effectively than others.
00:24:15.15\00:24:17.85
Yes, it's true.
00:24:17.89\00:24:19.22
Some have done
things that are a part
00:24:19.25\00:24:21.76
of the antichrist system.
00:24:21.79\00:24:23.39
Yeah.
00:24:23.43\00:24:24.76
And the system of pedophilia
00:24:24.79\00:24:26.13
that has
existed in some churches
00:24:26.16\00:24:29.50
is indeed
something which is evil.
00:24:29.53\00:24:31.43
It's satanic. Yes. Yes.
00:24:31.47\00:24:33.13
And atheists have got to realize
00:24:33.17\00:24:34.57
that this has got nothing
to do with Christ at all.
00:24:34.60\00:24:37.37
Let me ask you this.
00:24:37.41\00:24:38.91
I can see you're
a strong Christian.
00:24:38.94\00:24:41.84
Obviously, you were
brought up in a Christian home.
00:24:41.88\00:24:44.51
No, I wasn't actually.
00:24:44.55\00:24:47.12
In fact,
00:24:47.15\00:24:48.72
my father was a
nuclear physicist,
00:24:48.75\00:24:50.75
a college professor.
00:24:50.79\00:24:52.12
My mom was a
science and math teacher
00:24:52.15\00:24:54.96
in high school and junior high
00:24:54.99\00:24:57.19
so I lived in a house
00:24:57.23\00:24:58.83
where science was part
of our day-to-day lives.
00:24:58.86\00:25:02.06
And my mom was a
non-practicing Catholic.
00:25:02.10\00:25:05.70
My father was a Muslim.
00:25:05.73\00:25:07.34
And so we all...
Was he practicing?
00:25:07.37\00:25:09.47
Yes, he was very devout.
00:25:09.50\00:25:11.34
And so I grew up in a home
00:25:11.37\00:25:13.27
where our view of Christianity
was actually rather negative.
00:25:13.31\00:25:18.21
And so I didn't have any
kind of Christian influence,
00:25:18.25\00:25:21.78
or any orientation
towards Christianity.
00:25:21.82\00:25:24.82
And by the time
I went to college,
00:25:24.85\00:25:26.96
I was an agnostic.
00:25:26.99\00:25:28.32
I didn't know if
God existed or not,
00:25:28.36\00:25:29.79
and I probably in college
would have cheered Dawkins on.
00:25:29.82\00:25:33.56
Believe it or
not, I would have said,
00:25:33.60\00:25:35.43
"The origin of life,
00:25:35.46\00:25:36.80
the design of life,
00:25:36.83\00:25:38.17
it all can be explained
00:25:38.20\00:25:39.53
by the blind
watchmaker of evolution."
00:25:39.57\00:25:41.94
But it was in graduate school
00:25:41.97\00:25:44.21
when I really came face-to-face
00:25:44.24\00:25:46.37
with the complexity
of biochemical systems
00:25:46.41\00:25:49.81
that I recognize there
had to be a mind behind this.
00:25:49.84\00:25:53.62
There had to be a mind
that was responsible for life.
00:25:53.65\00:25:56.89
We're talking
today to Dr. Fazale Rana
00:25:56.92\00:25:59.85
from Reasons to Believe.
00:25:59.89\00:26:02.06
And we've got tons and tons
of amazing scientific evidence
00:26:02.09\00:26:07.43
to share with you next time.
00:26:07.46\00:26:10.90
I'm John Carter,
and I'll be back.
00:26:10.93\00:26:13.77
Hello, friend. I'm John Carter.
00:26:28.08\00:26:30.69
Behind me is the
great city of Manila,
00:26:30.72\00:26:34.69
the capital of the Philippines.
00:26:34.72\00:26:37.03
Did you know,
this is quite amazing.
00:26:37.06\00:26:38.99
There are more
people living in this area
00:26:39.03\00:26:41.16
than in New York City.
00:26:41.20\00:26:43.03
And Christ died
for these people.
00:26:43.06\00:26:45.93
We came here, oh,
long time ago back in 1984.
00:26:45.97\00:26:52.01
What's that, 34, 35 years ago,
00:26:52.04\00:26:54.91
and we came here with
a team of young people
00:26:54.94\00:26:57.25
and we came to the PICC.
00:26:57.28\00:27:00.32
It is our intent to come here,
00:27:00.35\00:27:02.72
hire the biggest
hall that's available,
00:27:02.75\00:27:05.02
the greatest outdoor
stadium, whatever it takes.
00:27:05.05\00:27:09.29
You've got more than
20 million souls out here.
00:27:09.32\00:27:14.23
And I say it again.
00:27:14.26\00:27:15.60
These are people
for whom Christ died.
00:27:15.63\00:27:18.33
I'm asking you to pray
00:27:18.37\00:27:19.70
for the people
of the Philippines.
00:27:19.73\00:27:22.00
Please pray for the
people here in Metro Manila.
00:27:22.04\00:27:25.77
And please write
to me John Carter,
00:27:25.81\00:27:28.18
P.O. Box 1900,
Thousand Oaks, California 91358.
00:27:28.21\00:27:33.65
In Australia, write to me
at Terrigal, at the address
00:27:33.68\00:27:37.05
that is now
showing on the screen.
00:27:37.09\00:27:41.86
We're back in Manila,
00:27:41.89\00:27:43.83
and we're back
with a message from God,
00:27:43.86\00:27:46.63
that message is,
Christ died for you.
00:27:46.66\00:27:51.87
And Christ is coming again soon.
00:27:51.90\00:27:57.17
Please support us.
00:27:57.21\00:27:58.54
Write to me
today, P.O. Box 1900,
00:27:58.57\00:28:01.54
Thousand Oaks, California.
00:28:01.58\00:28:03.51
And also write to me
at Terrigal in Australia.
00:28:03.55\00:28:07.48
Thank you for your support.
00:28:07.52\00:28:10.05
And God bless you.
00:28:10.09\00:28:11.42
For a copy of today's
program, please contact us
00:28:26.07\00:28:29.40
at P.O. Box 1900, Thousand Oaks,
00:28:29.44\00:28:32.67
California 91358.
00:28:32.71\00:28:36.04
Or in Australia,
00:28:36.08\00:28:37.48
contact us at P.O. Box 861,
00:28:37.51\00:28:40.98
Terrigal, New South Wales 2260.
00:28:41.02\00:28:45.32
This program is made possible
through the generous support
00:28:45.35\00:28:48.49
of viewers like you.
00:28:48.52\00:28:50.13
We thank you for
your continued support.
00:28:50.16\00:28:53.16
May God richly bless you.
00:28:53.19\00:28:55.00