Hello, friend. I'm John Carter.
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Welcome today to
the Carter Report.
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With me is an old friend
and colleague, Alan Reinach,
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Esq, Attorney, who is
the Executive Director
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of the Church State Council
here in Southern California.
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We've got a great
show for you today.
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Welcome today to
the Carter Report.
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I'm John Carter in
Moscow. In Havana, Cuba.
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Now in Kiev, the
capital of Ukraine.
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I'm John Carter in Petra.
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Right here in Communist China.
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Reporting from India.
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Hi, I'm John Carter
in the Solomon Islands.
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I'm John Carter in
Soweto. From El Salvador.
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I'm John Carter
in Sydney, Australia.
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Pastor Carter
explores "Freedom of Religion
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and Freedom of the Press."
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We're talking
today about Freedom
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and the American Dream.
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Is it being challenged
or our liberty is at threat.
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Alan, we're delighted
to have you with us today.
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Always a pleasure, John.
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It's been a privilege
over the years to work with you
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and we're glad
that you're here today.
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Have you heard of a
great American company goal,
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Chick-fil-A?
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I have.
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It's my pet's
favorite for treats.
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My beloved Shar-Pei Lucas.
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Say, say the name again. Lucas.
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But you said something else.
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Oh, it's a
Shar-Pei, the Chinese breed.
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Oh, it's a Chinese breed
and it likes Chick-fil-A.
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He loves Chick-fil-A. Yes.
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Now Chick-fil-A is a
Christian company, I'm told.
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It is. They
don't open on Sundays.
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They believe in
keeping their Sabbath.
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Correct.
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And they're having
trouble in Texas of all places.
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And San Antonio. Yeah.
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Imagine that Batson,
Texas is a conservative,
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you know,
Christian sort of place.
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Yeah. Christian values.
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Yeah.
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And Chick-fil-A is being kicked
out of the San Antonio airport,
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why?
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Well, because of their beliefs
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about the President's outspoken
beliefs about marriage.
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Because the owner of Chick-fil-A
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is a conservative Christian.
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He is.
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And he's got rights to ideas.
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Well, you know, the interesting
thing about this story is,
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it'd be one thing if they
were actually discriminating
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against gay people
in violation of the law.
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That's not the allegation.
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It would, it really amounts
to viewpoint discrimination.
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They're saying, "We
don't want you in the airport
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because we don't
like your viewpoint."
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Which is quite un-American.
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Well, it's illegal.
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And it's bigotry.
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It's blatantly illegal because
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the airport is, you know,
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at least a quasi
governmental entity.
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Here is a type in,
I thought you'd enjoy.
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This is from City
Council of San Antonio.
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Councilman Roberto Treviņo.
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He says, "San Antonio is
a city full of compassion,
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and we do not have room
in our public facilities
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for a business with a
legacy of anti-LGBTQ behavior."
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Right.
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But it's not behavior
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that they're
objecting to its speech...
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Yeah.
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Which is a violation
of the First Amendment
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because you have a
government entity, saying,
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where "We don't like what
you have to say about marriage."
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I thought this was America.
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I thought we had
freedom of speech here.
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Well, yeah, we're supposed to.
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Now, he says, this man
goes on to Mr. TreviA o.
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"Everyone has a place here,"
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Except, brilliant, right.
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"And everyone should..."
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Back when, when
America was celebrating
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our Bicentennial,
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a Russian was interviewed
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on national
television and asked what,
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you know, what his
view of America was?
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Yes.
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And he said, "Well, you
know, in the Soviet Union,
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we have freedom to speak."
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Yes.
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In the United States, we
have freedom after we speak.
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Well, apparently,
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some still do, but
others not so much.
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And so you'll
have a dreadful bigotry
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coming from people on the left.
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Yes, there is that.
On my way or the highway.
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Yes.
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You know, the
postmodern ethos is,
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it doesn't
matter what you believe,
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as long as what you
believe doesn't matter.
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If you're a Christian,
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if you're a person
of any religious faith,
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and you believe that your faith,
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your religion is
the absolute truth.
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Well, that's not acceptable.
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So this is quite amazing
because I've lived in Texas,
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and I love the
great state of Texas.
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And Texas supposed to
be the land of freedom,
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and churches, and religion
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and here is a poor
man and with his company,
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and they kicked out
of this Texas facility
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because this man believes in God
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and believes in marriage.
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Well, you know,
in some sense, John,
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the election of
Donald Trump as president
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is a reaction to this kind
of foolishness from the Left.
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And it's bigotry.
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You know, the concern about
the intolerance of the Left,
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and some of the advances,
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you know, we
forget now then in 2016,
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the big ticket
front page news item
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consistently was
about transgender bathroom.
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Can you believe it?
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No, a objection
to North Carolina's,
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you know, opposition
to something like this.
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And, you know,
whatever your view is,
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clearly, many
Americans were very upset
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about the direction that
the Left was taking us...
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And I was too.
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And Trump was the result.
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So whether you like it or don't,
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I think that's the reality.
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Please define for me,
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Attorney, religious liberty?
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What is religious liberty?
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Well, at its heart,
it has to be the freedom
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not only to believe, but to act,
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to engage in
religious activities,
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not only in private,
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but as a community.
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And this is the
genius of America, is it not?
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Absolutely.
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We don't believe in
theocracies, I thought.
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Well, no, we don't.
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What's a theocracy?
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Well, theocracy in...
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Look, in the biblical context,
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during the period of the judges,
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you know, there was no king,
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there was no government as such.
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And, you know, God
had direct dealings
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through the priesthood,
through the prophets and such.
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But in the more modern context,
what theocracy really means
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is people claiming to
have authority from God
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to rule in God's name.
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That's like Saudi Arabia.
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That's probably the
best modern example.
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How many churches in
Saudi Arabia, do you know?
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Yeah, actually, I do.
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Because they're not
permitted in Saudi Arabia,
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there're no churches.
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What about synagogues?
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That's clearly not allowed, no.
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And these people
are our great allies.
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And yet they provide
more financing for terrorism
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than just about
to compete with Iran
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for financing terrorists.
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Wahhabism. Right.
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Yes, exported around the world.
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Well, in most of
the 9/11 attackers
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were Saudi citizens.
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They've spent at
least $100 billion exporting
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this awful doctrine of
Wahhabi around the world.
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And so no Christian
churches there, but it is,
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as I say, it is a theocracy.
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And it seems to me that there
are some Christians in America
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who would like
America to become a theocracy.
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Do you think this is true?
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Well, it is absolutely true.
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Most Americans are
oblivious to the influence
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that it goes by various
names, dominionism is one name,
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reconstructionism
is another name.
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The idea that
America was established
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to be a Christian nation,
as a general proposition,
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there was a recent
poll in the southern states,
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where fully 80% of
those polled agreed
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that America was established
as a Christian nation.
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Well, that essentially
amounts to the belief
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that we should be a theocracy.
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And a theocracy always
brings intolerance, does it not?
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Well, by
definition, if you believe
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that you are implementing
God's will and God's rules,
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then those who don't
go along with your vision
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of what's
appropriate matters of faith,
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they don't have freedom.
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Now, Israel, is it
not, the State of Israel,
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is it democracy?
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It is.
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It's not a
theocracy. No, it's not.
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Now, you're an
authority on this.
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Well, no, but
you'll ask me anyway.
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I'll pretend for tonight.
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Yeah. Okay.
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Tell me about this
extreme right wing Jewish group
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in Israel and they want
to drive the Palestinians
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into the sea?
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Well, now see, I think
you're actually describing
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mainstream Palestinian thought
because it's the Palestinians
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who has a platform of
their existence for decades
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have insisted that the
Jews be driven into the sea.
00:09:34.44\00:09:38.34
And they have a map of the
area that does not recognize
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the nation of Israel.
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But I
understand, and once again,
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you know far more
about these things than I do.
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That since they
agreed upon a two states
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within one state settlement.
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They've agreed that
Israel has the right to exist.
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No, they haven't.
00:10:00.43\00:10:01.76
They absolutely have
not, and they haven't changed
00:10:01.80\00:10:03.80
any of their platform.
00:10:03.83\00:10:05.67
They may say some
nice things in English
00:10:05.70\00:10:08.14
for popular consumption.
00:10:08.17\00:10:09.74
But in Arabic, it's
the same, and they're still
00:10:09.77\00:10:13.04
indoctrinating
their young people.
00:10:13.07\00:10:14.41
Now, you speak
Arabic, don't you?
00:10:14.44\00:10:15.78
No, I don't. No.
00:10:15.81\00:10:17.15
No, I don't.
00:10:17.18\00:10:18.51
What about Hebrew?
00:10:18.55\00:10:19.88
You know little Hebrew?
00:10:19.91\00:10:21.25
Very little.
00:10:21.28\00:10:22.62
Yeah, I know.
Much little, little.
00:10:22.65\00:10:24.32
Poquito.
00:10:24.35\00:10:25.69
Yeah, yeah, poquito. Yeah.
00:10:25.72\00:10:27.82
All right, tell me about
this extreme right wing group
00:10:27.86\00:10:30.69
because you got
out of that one before?
00:10:30.73\00:10:33.70
Actually the
interesting thing, you know,
00:10:33.73\00:10:35.46
we're sitting here the day
after the election in Israel.
00:10:35.50\00:10:38.23
Yes. Yes.
00:10:38.27\00:10:39.60
And it appears that
Netanyahu has won re-election.
00:10:39.63\00:10:43.17
And it certainly reflects
that the right wing in Israel
00:10:43.20\00:10:48.24
is growing in influence.
00:10:48.28\00:10:51.35
Yes, it is. But I wouldn't...
00:10:51.38\00:10:53.88
Well, the sort
of white nationalism
00:10:53.92\00:10:57.75
is rampant around
the Western world.
00:10:57.79\00:11:01.29
What causes this?
00:11:01.32\00:11:02.66
Now, we do have a
surge in intolerance
00:11:02.69\00:11:05.83
around the world.
00:11:05.86\00:11:07.20
Is this true?
00:11:07.23\00:11:08.56
It's not only true,
it's the epidemic proportions
00:11:08.60\00:11:11.30
most people don't have any clue.
00:11:11.33\00:11:14.20
But 80% of the global population
00:11:14.24\00:11:17.91
live in nations with
little or no religious freedom.
00:11:17.94\00:11:20.74
Think about that for a minute.
00:11:20.78\00:11:22.54
Most of the
world's population don't...
00:11:22.58\00:11:25.05
Eighty percent of
the global population
00:11:25.08\00:11:27.88
are in nations with
little or no religious freedom.
00:11:27.92\00:11:30.62
Oh, let's name
them Saudi Arabia.
00:11:30.65\00:11:33.02
Well, okay. Iran.
00:11:33.05\00:11:34.39
The Islamic world,
for sure is a big problem.
00:11:34.42\00:11:37.26
Virtually all the Islamic world?
00:11:37.29\00:11:39.13
In terms of population,
China and India, of course,
00:11:39.16\00:11:42.33
the largest,
Russia's being another one.
00:11:42.36\00:11:44.13
Yes.
00:11:44.17\00:11:45.50
So there you have
most of the Asian landmass,
00:11:45.53\00:11:48.54
lots of conflict in Africa.
00:11:48.57\00:11:50.81
But, you know, the
America's are not immune.
00:11:50.84\00:11:53.51
What's behind this
global resurgence of bigotry
00:11:53.54\00:11:59.08
and intolerance?
00:11:59.11\00:12:00.52
Well, outside of the
West and the West secularism
00:12:00.55\00:12:04.09
and the intolerance
of the left, I think,
00:12:04.12\00:12:06.45
is the dominant concern,
although there is certainly
00:12:06.49\00:12:09.92
a growing amount of
right wing intolerance as well.
00:12:09.96\00:12:13.76
But around the
rest of the world,
00:12:13.80\00:12:15.46
the two main factors
are either nationalism,
00:12:15.50\00:12:19.93
or fundament, or
religious fundamentalism.
00:12:19.97\00:12:22.87
So for example, in India,
it's Hindu fundamentalists
00:12:22.90\00:12:25.87
who are destroying churches
00:12:25.91\00:12:27.64
and killing
pastors and what have you.
00:12:27.68\00:12:29.48
Now, most Americans
are not aware of this.
00:12:29.51\00:12:32.81
You know, we
have these two oceans
00:12:32.85\00:12:34.75
that insulate us from reality.
00:12:34.78\00:12:36.38
But in India, Christians
are being put to death...
00:12:36.42\00:12:39.15
They are.
00:12:39.19\00:12:40.52
By Hindu fundamentalists. True.
00:12:40.56\00:12:43.49
And then, of course, in all,
00:12:43.53\00:12:46.13
virtually all of
the Muslim countries,
00:12:46.16\00:12:47.86
there is no freedom of religion.
00:12:47.90\00:12:49.90
That is true.
00:12:49.93\00:12:51.27
And so America
has been a bastion
00:12:51.30\00:12:53.67
of freedom of
religion and freedom of speech.
00:12:53.70\00:12:56.37
And hopefully a
champion of the same
00:12:56.40\00:12:59.04
in our foreign policy,
at least at times we have.
00:12:59.07\00:13:01.64
But how is America doing
today is the great champion
00:13:01.68\00:13:04.85
of freedom of speech
and freedom of religion?
00:13:04.88\00:13:07.08
We're not.
00:13:07.12\00:13:08.45
The short answer is we're not.
00:13:08.48\00:13:10.72
Is that not going, my
friend, just a tiny bit too far.
00:13:10.75\00:13:15.16
No, it's not.
00:13:15.19\00:13:16.52
We had a very
interesting meeting earlier.
00:13:16.56\00:13:21.56
Oh, let's see, where?
00:13:21.60\00:13:22.93
Last year, where
the State Department
00:13:22.96\00:13:26.40
assembled dignitaries
from around the world
00:13:26.43\00:13:28.90
to emphasize religious freedom.
00:13:28.94\00:13:31.01
It was basically a show.
00:13:31.04\00:13:33.51
Okay, because in
our foreign policy,
00:13:33.54\00:13:36.28
our foreign
policy is America first.
00:13:36.31\00:13:38.68
And, you know, we're
destabilizing our relationship
00:13:38.71\00:13:42.48
with our allies and
cozying up to dictators.
00:13:42.52\00:13:45.62
So what does
that say to the world?
00:13:45.65\00:13:48.69
China, for example,
has since Trump is elected
00:13:48.72\00:13:52.59
engaged in and this is not
00:13:52.63\00:13:55.86
for the consumption
of children, by the way,
00:13:55.90\00:14:01.14
harvesting of organs
of religious dissidents.
00:14:01.17\00:14:05.87
In other words,
killing religious dissidents
00:14:05.91\00:14:09.38
who are predominantly
Muslim or Christian of some sort
00:14:09.41\00:14:12.71
or Falun Gong, and
then using their organs
00:14:12.75\00:14:17.72
for medical
purposes for transplants.
00:14:17.75\00:14:19.19
China is actually doing this.
00:14:19.22\00:14:20.89
There is considerable evidence,
00:14:20.92\00:14:22.62
the United Nations is
very concerned about this.
00:14:22.66\00:14:25.96
You know, we're in negotiations
with China over trade issues
00:14:25.99\00:14:30.50
but not over
human rights issues.
00:14:30.53\00:14:32.83
Is this not a
betrayal of the American dream,
00:14:32.87\00:14:37.17
that America is the champion
of freedom around the world?
00:14:37.21\00:14:40.54
Look...
00:14:40.58\00:14:42.31
We have a mixed
track record to be sure
00:14:42.34\00:14:45.65
in how we have
advocated for human rights
00:14:45.68\00:14:49.25
in our foreign policy.
00:14:49.28\00:14:50.95
But I think it's more absent
today than it has been and yes,
00:14:50.99\00:14:56.09
you know, ideally,
United States needs to make
00:14:56.12\00:14:59.66
human rights and
religious freedom
00:14:59.69\00:15:01.63
main issues in foreign policy.
00:15:01.66\00:15:04.23
And are not the
Chinese persecuting Muslims.
00:15:04.27\00:15:08.54
It's a group of Muslims.
00:15:08.57\00:15:09.90
Well, the weak are in the West.
00:15:09.94\00:15:12.34
There's a whole
area where literally,
00:15:12.37\00:15:15.38
something like a million Muslims
00:15:15.41\00:15:18.41
are subjected to what
amounts to almost detention camp
00:15:18.45\00:15:22.12
like facilities in terms of
re-education and monitoring.
00:15:22.15\00:15:27.39
You know, China has
perfected the use of cameras
00:15:27.42\00:15:32.26
and facial recognition.
00:15:32.29\00:15:34.03
So yeah, it's very
oppressive for the weaker
00:15:34.06\00:15:38.50
Muslim community there.
00:15:38.53\00:15:40.77
And it's not only
China, but if you go to Russia.
00:15:40.80\00:15:44.81
Now, I've been to
Russia many times, 49 times.
00:15:44.84\00:15:47.64
I like to tell people 49 times.
00:15:47.68\00:15:51.85
Jehovah Witnesses
are persecuted in Russia.
00:15:51.88\00:15:55.88
They are.
00:15:55.92\00:15:57.25
And I don't hear us
saying a word about it.
00:15:57.29\00:15:59.65
You know, President...
00:15:59.69\00:16:01.02
You know about the persecution
of Jehovah Witnesses.
00:16:01.06\00:16:02.79
President Trump
00:16:02.82\00:16:04.99
seems to be very
enamored with Putin.
00:16:05.03\00:16:09.66
But he's trying, I
think to make peace.
00:16:09.70\00:16:12.43
He thinks it's
better for us to be at peace
00:16:12.47\00:16:14.57
with the Russians than
to be fighting the Russians.
00:16:14.60\00:16:17.37
And this is true.
00:16:17.41\00:16:18.74
Well, I'm not gonna pretend
to know what President Trump
00:16:18.77\00:16:23.11
thinks about
Putin or anybody else.
00:16:23.14\00:16:25.98
But clearly we have
done very little in opposing
00:16:26.01\00:16:30.32
the persecution of
the Jehovah Witnesses.
00:16:30.35\00:16:31.79
I don't think
we've done anything.
00:16:31.82\00:16:33.15
It's illegal.
00:16:33.19\00:16:34.52
It's illegal now to be a
Jehovah Witness in Russia.
00:16:34.56\00:16:36.79
Yes, it is. Yes, it is.
00:16:36.83\00:16:38.69
It's complete
persecution, just like the Jews
00:16:38.73\00:16:41.90
were persecuted in Germany.
00:16:41.93\00:16:44.90
Well, it's not just like
00:16:44.93\00:16:46.37
because they're
not rounding them up
00:16:46.40\00:16:47.94
and putting
them in gas chambers.
00:16:47.97\00:16:49.44
Not yet. Not yet.
00:16:49.47\00:16:50.81
Yes.
00:16:50.84\00:16:52.17
Well, hopefully,
it won't come to that.
00:16:52.21\00:16:53.54
But it is still
terrible discrimination
00:16:53.58\00:16:54.91
and persecution.
00:16:54.94\00:16:56.28
Of course, it is.
00:16:56.31\00:16:57.65
And they are
being put in prison.
00:16:57.68\00:16:59.01
They are. Yes.
00:16:59.05\00:17:01.78
And then you've got,
of course, North Korea.
00:17:01.82\00:17:03.92
And I'm, you know, we don't get
into politics on this program.
00:17:03.95\00:17:07.89
I'm an independent
person. And I think you are too.
00:17:10.29\00:17:13.96
But in North Korea, we
have a dreadful regime.
00:17:14.00\00:17:18.17
But I think it's a good thing
that the President has tried
00:17:18.20\00:17:21.00
to make peace with North Korea.
00:17:21.04\00:17:23.04
It's better to have peace
than nuclear war, is it not?
00:17:23.07\00:17:26.57
Yes, it certainly is.
00:17:26.61\00:17:28.31
And, you know, the jury
is still out on whether...
00:17:28.34\00:17:31.21
It's going to work.
00:17:31.25\00:17:32.58
Whether this
approach to North Korea
00:17:32.61\00:17:34.32
will be productive.
00:17:34.35\00:17:35.75
Of course, you know,
00:17:35.78\00:17:37.12
we all hope for a
reduction intentions
00:17:37.15\00:17:40.89
with countries like North Korea
00:17:40.92\00:17:42.92
Yes.
00:17:42.96\00:17:44.29
I think Churchill said that
00:17:44.33\00:17:46.26
"Jaw-jaw was
better than war-war."
00:17:46.29\00:17:50.33
You know that saying.
I think it was Churchill.
00:17:50.37\00:17:52.70
Okay.
00:17:52.73\00:17:54.07
Well, church, but, you
know, Churchill was one
00:17:54.10\00:17:56.37
who was fit to be tied
over the appeasement policies
00:17:56.40\00:18:00.84
that England pursued
towards Germany in the 1930s.
00:18:00.88\00:18:04.25
And, of course, when
literally all hell broke loose
00:18:04.28\00:18:07.52
with the German
Blitzkrieg, it was Churchill,
00:18:07.55\00:18:11.25
who was hold on
00:18:11.29\00:18:12.62
to lead the nation
in opposing Hitler.
00:18:12.65\00:18:15.12
Well, there was
a reason for this.
00:18:15.16\00:18:16.89
England had gone
through the World War I.
00:18:16.93\00:18:19.03
Sure.
00:18:19.06\00:18:20.40
And they'd lost a million
young men on the trenches,
00:18:20.43\00:18:22.33
in Flanders,
other parts of Europe,
00:18:22.36\00:18:24.83
and they said
never, never again.
00:18:24.87\00:18:27.27
And 20 years later
is another big war.
00:18:27.30\00:18:29.34
Right.
00:18:29.37\00:18:30.71
And so Churchill was
the only voice in England
00:18:30.74\00:18:32.41
during that time
during the 1930s,
00:18:32.44\00:18:34.74
when he was almost
sentenced to Siberia
00:18:34.78\00:18:37.61
for his outspoken views.
00:18:37.65\00:18:38.98
Yeah.
00:18:39.01\00:18:40.35
He was saying,
"This man is a bad man.
00:18:40.38\00:18:42.65
We're going to have trouble.
00:18:42.68\00:18:44.05
But the House of
Commons shouted him down.
00:18:44.09\00:18:47.92
And he became a
great proponent of freedom,
00:18:47.96\00:18:51.93
and also a
proponent of giving Israel,
00:18:51.96\00:18:56.36
the Jewish people
the Land of Israel.
00:18:56.40\00:18:58.83
So you have Israel, the one
democracy in the Middle East,
00:18:58.87\00:19:02.87
surrounded by
hundreds of millions
00:19:02.90\00:19:04.94
of hostile neighbors.
00:19:04.97\00:19:07.04
All right, I see your
point, but it's good for us
00:19:07.08\00:19:09.44
to discuss these things.
00:19:09.48\00:19:11.21
Muslim countries do not allow
Christians to build churches.
00:19:11.25\00:19:16.08
No, that's not entirely true.
00:19:16.12\00:19:17.82
Most Muslim countries.
00:19:17.85\00:19:19.49
There are churches in
various Arab countries.
00:19:19.52\00:19:22.99
I've preached in Jordan,
which is probably the best
00:19:23.02\00:19:26.33
Muslim country in the world.
00:19:26.36\00:19:28.03
And there are
Christian churches in Syria.
00:19:28.06\00:19:31.90
Well, there were
Christian churches in Syria.
00:19:31.93\00:19:34.47
Well, there is an
ancient Christian community
00:19:34.50\00:19:36.64
in most of these countries...
00:19:36.67\00:19:38.01
And in Iraq.
00:19:38.04\00:19:39.37
But they're under
duress these days, Egypt,
00:19:39.41\00:19:43.14
tremendous attacks
periodically on churches
00:19:43.18\00:19:47.42
and killing people
while they're worshiping even.
00:19:47.45\00:19:50.12
Let me restate this statement.
00:19:50.15\00:19:53.46
Many Muslim countries
do not allow Christians
00:19:53.49\00:19:56.39
to build churches,
but we allow Muslims
00:19:56.42\00:20:00.60
to build their
places of worship here.
00:20:00.63\00:20:04.97
Why don't we say to them,
00:20:05.00\00:20:06.37
"You don't let us do it
over in the Middle East,
00:20:06.40\00:20:08.34
you're not going to do it here?"
00:20:08.37\00:20:09.77
Right, because we
think Saudi Arabia
00:20:09.80\00:20:11.84
and the type of
religious intolerance
00:20:11.87\00:20:14.38
in the Muslim world
00:20:14.41\00:20:16.44
is what we want
to emulate, right?
00:20:16.48\00:20:20.22
And now you're
asking me the question.
00:20:20.25\00:20:21.58
Well, I know, it's
a rhetorical question,
00:20:21.62\00:20:24.45
John, of course.
00:20:24.49\00:20:25.82
I thought I was
asking the question.
00:20:25.85\00:20:27.42
Of course, we, you
know, we set an example.
00:20:27.46\00:20:32.66
And it goes back, you
know, as far as Roger Williams
00:20:32.69\00:20:35.76
and other
founders, William Penn,
00:20:35.80\00:20:37.60
you know, they were very clear
00:20:37.63\00:20:39.53
that religious freedom means
00:20:39.57\00:20:40.94
that people of all
faiths are welcome.
00:20:40.97\00:20:43.74
Now Williams had,
you know, an illustration
00:20:43.77\00:20:47.54
that you have
people of varying faiths,
00:20:47.58\00:20:49.24
including Muslims on
a ship, on board a ship,
00:20:49.28\00:20:52.78
and as long as they obeyed
the captain and did their job
00:20:52.81\00:20:57.05
on the ship,
they had full freedom
00:20:57.09\00:20:59.19
of belief and worship.
00:20:59.22\00:21:00.56
And this is, this
is what we believe.
00:21:00.59\00:21:02.56
And so now we talk
about the ship of state.
00:21:02.59\00:21:05.13
And the same is true,
00:21:05.16\00:21:06.49
we have certain
responsibilities as citizens,
00:21:06.53\00:21:08.56
you know, not to
kill each other and,
00:21:08.60\00:21:10.27
you know, what have you.
00:21:10.30\00:21:11.67
And as long as we live
in peace, we are allowed
00:21:11.70\00:21:14.17
to have our freedom of
worship and have our mosques,
00:21:14.20\00:21:18.54
or synagogues, or
temples, or whatever.
00:21:18.57\00:21:20.88
And so Muslims have
got the absolute right
00:21:20.91\00:21:24.31
under the Constitution to
build a mosque in New York.
00:21:24.35\00:21:28.18
Yes, they do.
00:21:28.22\00:21:29.82
Wasn't this
contentious just recently.
00:21:29.85\00:21:32.02
You know, I did an
interview on Fox some years ago,
00:21:32.05\00:21:35.72
debating one of the conservative
00:21:35.76\00:21:38.03
Christian folks,
in fact, that was...
00:21:38.06\00:21:39.53
Is that a conservative station?
00:21:39.56\00:21:41.63
Yes.
00:21:41.66\00:21:43.00
In fact, it was the son
00:21:43.03\00:21:44.67
of one of
Donald Trump's lawyers.
00:21:44.70\00:21:46.40
It was Alan
Sequeira, I was debating.
00:21:46.43\00:21:48.14
Yeah.
00:21:48.17\00:21:49.50
And they were opposing
what they falsely called
00:21:49.54\00:21:51.04
the ground zero mosque.
00:21:51.07\00:21:53.04
And I pointed out
that this was flagrant
00:21:53.07\00:21:55.51
viewpoint discrimination.
00:21:55.54\00:21:57.78
You know, they
didn't want a mosque
00:21:57.81\00:21:59.91
in Lower Manhattan,
00:21:59.95\00:22:01.28
would have been okay
to build a church there,
00:22:01.32\00:22:03.49
any other kind
of religious center,
00:22:03.52\00:22:05.49
but just not an Islamic one.
00:22:05.52\00:22:07.86
And it was several
blocks away from the actual,
00:22:07.89\00:22:11.59
you know, ground zero.
00:22:11.63\00:22:12.96
So it wasn't really
a ground zero mosque,
00:22:12.99\00:22:15.16
and anyone who
knows New York like I do,
00:22:15.20\00:22:17.13
I grew up there
knows that a few blocks...
00:22:17.17\00:22:19.00
You're a New Yorker, aren't you?
00:22:19.03\00:22:20.37
You know, you go to ground zero.
00:22:20.40\00:22:21.77
And if you have a
mosque, an Islamic center
00:22:21.80\00:22:24.97
several blocks away, you
don't even know it's there,
00:22:25.01\00:22:27.28
if you go visit the
ground zero monument
00:22:27.31\00:22:30.31
and museum there.
00:22:30.35\00:22:31.68
But it's the heart
of the American dream
00:22:31.71\00:22:35.05
to believe that every
religion has the right
00:22:35.08\00:22:38.52
to practice his faith.
00:22:38.55\00:22:39.89
Absolutely.
00:22:39.92\00:22:41.26
And Muslims,
Christians, Jehovah Witnesses,
00:22:41.29\00:22:44.49
Seventh-day
Adventist, Roman Catholics?
00:22:44.53\00:22:47.70
You know, I don't think
00:22:47.73\00:22:49.06
it's just an
accident of history,
00:22:49.10\00:22:50.43
John, that freedom of
religion found its way to being
00:22:50.47\00:22:53.40
the first of the
rights in the Bill of Rights.
00:22:53.44\00:22:57.41
I think it's, you know,
it's more than just symbolic
00:22:57.44\00:23:01.14
that really, it
is our first freedom,
00:23:01.18\00:23:03.95
and historians and
commentators for over the course
00:23:03.98\00:23:07.32
of our history as a
country have referred
00:23:07.35\00:23:09.65
to religious freedom as
our nation's first freedom.
00:23:09.68\00:23:12.65
What would a
theocracy look like in America?
00:23:12.69\00:23:16.93
If we ever got a theocracy,
what would it look like?
00:23:16.96\00:23:20.10
Well, I think it would
look like a form of Christianity
00:23:20.13\00:23:23.47
being enforced by law,
00:23:23.50\00:23:25.17
and those who don't go
along with it are punished.
00:23:25.20\00:23:28.67
Do we have a
precedent for this in history?
00:23:28.70\00:23:31.77
Well, the
closest precedent we have
00:23:31.81\00:23:35.14
is the Holy Roman Empire
00:23:35.18\00:23:36.95
during the Middle
Ages where you had
00:23:36.98\00:23:38.88
a very close
association between the emperor
00:23:38.91\00:23:42.52
and the church.
00:23:42.55\00:23:43.92
And somebody
said it wasn't holy,
00:23:43.95\00:23:45.82
and it wasn't Roman,
and it wasn't an empire.
00:23:45.85\00:23:49.22
It was a church
state thing, wasn't it?
00:23:49.26\00:23:51.39
Well, yes, it certainly was.
00:23:51.43\00:23:54.70
I think it was Roman
in a sense of the church,
00:23:54.73\00:23:57.73
you know, the
church really was the heir
00:23:57.77\00:23:59.47
to the Roman Empire.
00:23:59.50\00:24:00.84
Yes. It was. Yes.
00:24:00.87\00:24:02.20
The Roman Catholic Church
was built on the Roman Empire.
00:24:02.24\00:24:05.14
And the pope took the
title of the Roman Emperor
00:24:05.17\00:24:09.88
Pontifex Maximus.
00:24:09.91\00:24:11.35
Can I read you a
text out of the Bible?
00:24:11.38\00:24:13.31
Please.
00:24:13.35\00:24:14.68
And then tell me what this means
00:24:14.72\00:24:16.82
because I know that
you are an authority also,
00:24:16.85\00:24:19.95
on Bible prophecy.
00:24:19.99\00:24:21.42
Revelation 17, "Then
one of the seven angels
00:24:23.12\00:24:27.00
had the seven bowls
came and talked with me,
00:24:27.03\00:24:29.06
saying to me,
'Come, I will show you
00:24:29.10\00:24:31.03
the judgment of the great harlot
00:24:31.07\00:24:33.47
who sits on many waters."
00:24:33.50\00:24:35.97
He is a harlot.
00:24:36.00\00:24:37.91
As you know, in Bible Prophecy,
a woman represents the church.
00:24:37.94\00:24:42.34
Now, I'm going
little further, it says,
00:24:42.38\00:24:46.21
"With whom the
kings of the earth
00:24:46.25\00:24:47.65
committed fornication,
00:24:47.68\00:24:49.92
and the inhabitants of the earth
00:24:49.95\00:24:51.52
were made drunk with
wine of her fornication.'
00:24:51.55\00:24:55.36
So he sees a woman
sitting on a scarlet beast
00:24:55.39\00:24:59.19
that was full of
names of blasphemy.
00:24:59.23\00:25:02.33
The woman was arrayed
in purple and scarlet.'"
00:25:02.36\00:25:05.10
What is this a symbol of?
00:25:05.13\00:25:07.54
Well, it's a symbol
of a church state union,
00:25:07.57\00:25:11.97
really, because you
have a woman representing
00:25:12.01\00:25:16.51
a corrupt form of Christianity,
00:25:16.54\00:25:19.55
dressed in the royal
garb of, you know, the...
00:25:19.58\00:25:23.39
And what's the
beast in Revelation here?
00:25:23.42\00:25:25.95
Well, beasts
always represent nation.
00:25:25.99\00:25:28.72
So it's the state? Right.
00:25:28.76\00:25:30.16
So he got a union?
00:25:30.19\00:25:31.53
So you have the woman
is pictured on top riding,
00:25:31.56\00:25:34.46
so holding the
reigns, so to speak.
00:25:34.50\00:25:36.36
Yeah.
00:25:36.40\00:25:37.73
So prophetically
what you see is a return
00:25:37.77\00:25:40.90
to something like...
00:25:40.94\00:25:42.27
Well, Revelation 13
uses the expression and image
00:25:42.30\00:25:44.97
of the beast.
00:25:45.01\00:25:46.34
In other words, it is like
the church state arrangements
00:25:46.37\00:25:50.68
of the Middle Ages.
00:25:50.71\00:25:52.05
And theologians for years
have said, this is the heart
00:25:52.08\00:25:55.38
and the essence of
antichrist, a theocracy.
00:25:55.42\00:26:01.29
So we're going to
be back in a moment
00:26:01.32\00:26:02.92
and we're going
to ask the question
00:26:02.96\00:26:04.69
of our great attorney here.
00:26:04.73\00:26:06.90
What would a theocracy look like
00:26:06.93\00:26:09.50
in the United
States of America today?
00:26:09.53\00:26:12.67
We'll be back in a moment.
00:26:12.70\00:26:15.04
Don't go away.
00:26:15.07\00:26:16.60
The antichrist is
in the temple of God.
00:26:25.81\00:26:31.35
I read you the actual words
00:26:31.39\00:26:33.72
of the great
Roman Catholic Church.
00:26:33.76\00:26:38.36
More than a billion
people pray to the dead.
00:26:38.39\00:26:43.70
But the Bible talks very
plainly about good angels
00:26:43.73\00:26:47.27
and bad angels.
00:26:47.30\00:26:51.67
Why on earth
were you and I born?
00:26:51.71\00:26:57.08
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