I'm John Carter in Moscow.
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I'm now in Kiev,
the capital of Ukraine.
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I'm John Carter in Petra...
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Reporting from India...
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In Columbia...
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I'm John Carter.
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Today, John Carter talks
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to a world famous astrophysicist
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about scientific
reasons to believe in God.
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It's not just about faith,
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it's about newly
discovered scientific evidence.
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His name is Dr. Hugh Ross.
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Hello, friend, I'm John Carter.
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Welcome today to
The Carter Report.
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We have a very special guest
with us today, Dr. Hugh Ross.
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Dr. Ross, it's an honor to
have you with us today, sir.
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Well, thank you.
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And Dr. Ross comes
from Reasons to Believe.
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Today, we're going to talk about
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the mysteries of the
universe and lots more.
00:00:50.68\00:00:54.95
Welcome today to
The Carter Report.
00:00:54.98\00:00:59.12
Time, it takes only a
minute to have eternal life.
00:00:59.15\00:01:03.09
How can you get
saved in a minute?
00:01:03.12\00:01:04.93
It's simple.
00:01:04.96\00:01:06.29
First, believe that
Jesus was the Son of God.
00:01:06.33\00:01:08.83
Second, accept His
free gift of eternal life.
00:01:08.86\00:01:11.90
And then you're saved.
00:01:11.93\00:01:13.87
It's not hard.
00:01:13.90\00:01:15.24
It doesn't take any time.
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You can be saved
in a minute right now.
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Pray with me.
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Lord God, I
realize that I am a sinner.
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My sin has
separated me from You.
00:01:23.91\00:01:26.31
I accept that Your Son,
Jesus Christ, died for me.
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I ask Jesus into my heart.
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If you prayed this
prayer, you are saved.
00:01:31.39\00:01:34.16
The next thing to
do is tell someone,
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fellowship with
other followers of Jesus,
00:01:36.89\00:01:39.49
get baptized, read
your Bible, and pray.
00:01:39.53\00:01:43.50
Choices, we make
them every day all day.
00:01:43.53\00:01:46.87
The most important choice
you will make in your life
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is whether to
choose eternal life
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or let it pass you by.
00:01:51.77\00:01:53.58
If you would
like more information
00:01:53.61\00:01:54.94
about your new life,
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call the number
and visit our website.
00:01:56.34\00:02:00.75
The Pew Research Center
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put out a report recently.
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It's quite amazing and
is really quite alarming.
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They report that
millions of young people
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are leaving the
Christian Church.
00:02:15.93\00:02:17.87
Millions are leaving.
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And these are
some of the reasons
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that they're giving
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why they're leaving
the Christian Church.
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Fifty-one percent question
a lot of religious teachings,
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thirty-four percent say
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they don't like
religious organizations,
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and thirty-one percent say
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they don't like
religious leaders.
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Not too good, is it?
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This is similar
to a 2016 Pew report.
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And they came up...
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the young people,
when I interviewed them,
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came up with these statements.
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They no longer
belong to a religious group
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because they no
longer believed it was true.
00:03:05.25\00:03:09.58
They thought the church
was teaching hocus-pocus.
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They said, a
lot of them had gone
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to a university, college,
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and they had discovered
evolution, and therefore,
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they decided they'd
give up the Christian faith.
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I say to you, again, my
friend, you may not know it,
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but it is true,
millions of young people
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are leaving the
Christian Church,
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and it's all over science.
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And sadly, most people
just shrug their shoulders
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and they're saying, "So what?
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And who cares?"
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I'm glad to tell
you some people care.
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Dr. Ross had reasons
to believe cares deeply.
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And, Dr. Ross,
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we are honored to have you, sir,
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with us today.
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Well, thank you.
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You have a great organization.
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Why is it called
Reasons to Believe?
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Well, we're a group
of research scientists
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that are researching
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the frontiers of
scientific research
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to demonstrate that the
more we learn about the nature,
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the more reasons
we have to believe
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in the
supernatural handiwork of God.
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So we show
people the track record
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that every day,
there's new reasons to believe
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in Jesus as
Creator Lord and Savior.
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Now you're an
astrophysicist? Yes.
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And you're an astronomer?
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Yes.
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How did you
become an astronomer?
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So you are...
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What I'm trying to say
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so that the
audience will hear this,
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you're a genuine scientist.
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Yes.
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How did you become a scientist?
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All started when I was seven.
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I wanted to know
why the stars were hot.
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Yeah.
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My parents encouraged
me to go to the library.
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I then came home
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with five books of
astronomy and physics.
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When? How old?
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I was seven. Yeah.
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I was doing that every weekend.
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You must have
been a different kid.
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Well, I grew up in an
interesting neighborhood
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where a lot of us
had already picked out
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our future
careers at that early age.
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Amazing.
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Your parents were Christians?
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No, they were not.
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But they encouraged me
in my studies of science
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and they encouraged
me to look more broadly
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than just astronomy and physics.
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But it was my
astronomy and physics
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that eventually persuaded me
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that the
universe had a beginning.
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And if there is a beginning,
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I knew there had
to be a beginner.
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So as a scientist,
you believe there is...
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How can I put this?
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You believe
there are good reasons
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to trust in a Creator God?
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Very good reasons,
particularly some astronomy.
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Scientific reasons? Yes.
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I mean, the power of astronomy
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is although we have
no access to the present,
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we have direct
access to the past.
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So for example,
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when we look at the Crab Nebula,
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we don't see it as it is now,
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we see it as it
was 6,500 years ago
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'cause that's how
long it took the light
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to reach our telescope.
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But we can
actually see so far away,
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we can directly watch
the universe being created,
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hence our ability
to directly witness
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a cosmic creation
event that gives us
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the most rigorous
compelling scientific evidences.
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There must be a god
that started it all.
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And so for the
audience that is watching today
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and hopefully they'll
be a lot of young people.
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As a scientist,
as an astrophysicist,
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you've studied the
stars, the universe...
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I've read some of your books.
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I didn't find all of
them too easy to read.
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Some are easier
to read than others.
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Well, I probably
read the easiest ones.
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But no, I've read
your Improbable Earth,
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and The Creator and the Cosmos.
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I'm a fan of your books.
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So you believe that
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there are clear rational reasons
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why a thinking person
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can believe in
the existence of God?
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I do and I believe that
every week that goes by,
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we have even more reasons.
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The evidence gets
stronger and stronger
00:07:02.92\00:07:05.05
as we learn more
and more about nature.
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That's a big mouthful.
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You actually believe
that as time goes by,
00:07:09.39\00:07:13.13
there's more and more
evidence to believe in God
00:07:13.16\00:07:15.80
because the agnostic
and the atheist says that
00:07:15.83\00:07:19.13
all this
religious stuff is bunkum.
00:07:19.17\00:07:22.74
You know, it's just all faith
00:07:22.77\00:07:24.17
and there's no
reason to believe at all.
00:07:24.21\00:07:26.98
Once I did a radio debate
with the British physicist,
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Paul Davies and...
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He is a famous guy.
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He is. Yeah.
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He was very receptive to
what I was saying but he says,
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"You know, I can't handle
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the baggage of the church over."
00:07:37.52\00:07:40.46
Oops. Yeah.
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So it wasn't believing in
God that bothered him, it was,
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you know, all the fixings
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of the churches
that concerned him.
00:07:45.46\00:07:46.80
Yeah.
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I said, "Well, you know,
you can actually believe in God
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and read the Bible
and trust the Bible
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and trust in Jesus Christ
without all that baggage."
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You know what Nietzsche
said on one occasion...
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this famous man said that
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the greatest
argument against Christianity,
00:08:01.51\00:08:04.75
and this is a
terrible thing to say, he said,
00:08:04.78\00:08:07.22
were the members of the church.
00:08:07.25\00:08:09.32
That's what Nietzsche said.
00:08:09.35\00:08:10.69
Well, he's right about that,
00:08:10.72\00:08:12.52
but he's also
missing something else.
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One of the greatest reasons
00:08:14.79\00:08:16.12
to believe in
the Christian faith
00:08:16.16\00:08:17.49
is because of the
members of the church.
00:08:17.53\00:08:20.03
I mean, what I find
fascinating about humans,
00:08:20.06\00:08:23.26
we are wicked beyond what
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any science
could possibly explain,
00:08:25.03\00:08:27.60
but we're virtuous beyond
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what any science
can possibly explain.
00:08:29.14\00:08:31.17
There's two
extremes in humanity,
00:08:31.21\00:08:33.68
a wickedness that
has no explanation
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naturalistically and virtuous
00:08:35.91\00:08:38.08
no explanation naturalistically.
00:08:38.11\00:08:40.32
I just wish
Nietzsche would actually look
00:08:40.35\00:08:41.95
not just at the
wickedness, but at the virtue.
00:08:41.98\00:08:43.49
Yeah.
00:08:43.52\00:08:44.85
And this man who gave up on God
00:08:44.89\00:08:46.22
had a very
unpleasant end, didn't he?
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He did. Yeah.
00:08:48.12\00:08:49.46
And his life was
filled with torments.
00:08:49.49\00:08:52.83
Today, we're going to try
00:08:52.86\00:08:54.20
to do something
quite extraordinary.
00:08:54.23\00:08:57.37
I say we're going to try to,
00:08:57.40\00:08:58.83
but I think you're
going to be the person
00:08:58.87\00:09:00.44
who is going to do it.
00:09:00.47\00:09:02.30
I'm suggesting we discover
00:09:02.34\00:09:05.04
top 10 reasons
to believe in God.
00:09:05.07\00:09:08.61
All right. The top...
00:09:08.64\00:09:10.18
Now maybe we'll go beyond that.
00:09:10.21\00:09:12.31
But I think if we can...
00:09:12.35\00:09:14.45
If, today, we can concentrate
00:09:14.48\00:09:16.52
and think of top
10 scientific reasons
00:09:16.55\00:09:21.69
why a person who like
some of these young people
00:09:21.72\00:09:25.06
giving up on God, why
they can believe in God
00:09:25.09\00:09:28.43
and still be
honest with themselves.
00:09:28.46\00:09:31.20
I think Richard Dawkins said
talking to one young person,
00:09:31.23\00:09:36.17
this young person said,
00:09:36.20\00:09:37.97
"I loved my faith
but I can't believe...
00:09:38.01\00:09:41.14
I know that my faith
is wrong and, therefore,
00:09:41.18\00:09:44.48
I'm just going to
keep believing blindly."
00:09:44.51\00:09:48.12
And Dawkins said,
and rightly so, he said,
00:09:48.15\00:09:49.82
"That's a tragedy
when you've got to give up
00:09:49.85\00:09:52.42
your intellect
to believe in God."
00:09:52.45\00:09:55.32
But as a famous scientist,
00:09:55.36\00:09:57.96
you believe that
there's plenty of evidence
00:09:57.99\00:10:00.73
why thinking
people can believe in God
00:10:00.76\00:10:03.73
and even believe in Jesus.
00:10:03.77\00:10:07.00
You haven't always believed...
00:10:07.04\00:10:09.24
Your parents were not believers,
00:10:09.27\00:10:13.11
you certainly
believe in science.
00:10:13.14\00:10:17.95
Where were you educated? You?
00:10:17.98\00:10:20.25
I was educated in Canada.
00:10:20.28\00:10:21.78
I mean, I was born in Canada
00:10:21.82\00:10:23.15
and I got all my
degrees in Canada.
00:10:23.18\00:10:24.79
Yes.
00:10:24.82\00:10:26.15
And then I went to Caltech
to do post-doctoral research.
00:10:26.19\00:10:29.69
Tell me about your
doctorate in astronomy.
00:10:29.72\00:10:32.89
Why did you decide
00:10:32.93\00:10:34.36
that you wanted
to be an astronomer
00:10:34.40\00:10:36.56
and not a
biochemist or something else?
00:10:36.60\00:10:40.64
Well, I knew from
the age of eight onward
00:10:40.67\00:10:42.77
that my future career would
be in astronomy and physics.
00:10:42.80\00:10:45.64
The seven books you took home.
00:10:45.67\00:10:47.01
They were.
00:10:47.04\00:10:48.38
I mean, I was just so fascinated
00:10:48.41\00:10:49.74
about the fact
that in astronomy,
00:10:49.78\00:10:51.78
you're really
asking the big questions.
00:10:51.81\00:10:54.78
Why is the
universe the way it is?
00:10:54.82\00:10:56.45
Yes.
00:10:56.48\00:10:57.82
I wanted to actually
explore those deep questions,
00:10:57.85\00:11:00.66
and so I
thought, "Well, you know,
00:11:00.69\00:11:02.02
the best way to do that
00:11:02.06\00:11:03.39
is actually look at
the galaxies and quasars
00:11:03.43\00:11:05.56
that are
farthest away, actually,
00:11:05.59\00:11:08.03
explore what's going on
near the creation even."
00:11:08.06\00:11:10.40
Now in some surveys,
Caltech is coming as easily
00:11:10.43\00:11:15.67
one of the best
universities in the world.
00:11:15.70\00:11:17.84
Well, especially for
astronomy and physics.
00:11:17.87\00:11:19.21
Yeah.
00:11:19.24\00:11:20.58
I think with MIT
came in a survey,
00:11:20.61\00:11:24.15
I saw that the same.
00:11:24.18\00:11:26.31
On other surveys,
it's come in as number one.
00:11:26.35\00:11:29.12
Yeah, it's number one
for physics and astronomy.
00:11:29.15\00:11:31.19
That's why I chose to go there.
00:11:31.22\00:11:33.66
Also, I wanted to
use their telescopes.
00:11:33.69\00:11:36.29
At the time, they had
the only telescope array,
00:11:36.32\00:11:39.23
a radio telescope array
in a high-altitude desert.
00:11:39.26\00:11:43.23
So I just wanted to go there.
00:11:43.26\00:11:44.90
I also appreciate
00:11:44.93\00:11:46.27
the egalitarian
spirit of Caltech
00:11:46.30\00:11:48.97
how everyone's kind of on
the same level, professors,
00:11:49.00\00:11:52.17
grad students,
postdocs, undergrads,
00:11:52.21\00:11:54.88
there is a high respect.
00:11:54.91\00:11:56.68
It's not hierarchical
like the European universities.
00:11:56.71\00:11:59.75
Or the church.
00:11:59.78\00:12:01.12
Or the church for
that matter. Yeah, right.
00:12:01.15\00:12:04.15
And I like the
comment by young people.
00:12:04.19\00:12:06.45
And so there is a
desire to discover truth.
00:12:06.49\00:12:08.86
There is, and frankly,
00:12:08.89\00:12:10.39
I'm optimistic about
the younger generation
00:12:10.43\00:12:12.96
because they
really want to dive in,
00:12:12.99\00:12:14.56
they want to debate,
they want to dialogue.
00:12:14.60\00:12:17.37
I found the reason
why they are turned off
00:12:17.40\00:12:19.33
by the church,
00:12:19.37\00:12:20.70
they don't have the
chance to ask questions,
00:12:20.74\00:12:22.27
they don't have
the chance to engage.
00:12:22.30\00:12:23.91
The church is not answering
00:12:23.94\00:12:26.34
many of the questions they have.
00:12:26.37\00:12:27.94
Or it is not even willing
to entertain the questions.
00:12:27.98\00:12:30.05
Absolutely.
00:12:30.08\00:12:31.41
And I think that the
church is often so close-minded
00:12:31.45\00:12:36.79
that it's pushing
people with minds out.
00:12:36.82\00:12:40.29
Well, I am encouraged
that the younger generations
00:12:40.32\00:12:42.92
are wanting to go to
Starbucks and talk theology.
00:12:42.96\00:12:46.53
I mean, they love the
opportunity to engage...
00:12:46.56\00:12:49.36
they especially like
the opportunity to engage
00:12:49.40\00:12:51.40
with older people like us
who have done a lot of study.
00:12:51.43\00:12:54.27
Well, they did
like engaging with you.
00:12:54.30\00:12:56.67
Well, I think they
love engaging with you, too.
00:12:56.71\00:12:58.31
I find that they
really respect people
00:12:58.34\00:13:00.98
that have had a
lot of experience
00:13:01.01\00:13:03.14
and a lot of education.
00:13:03.18\00:13:05.15
And it's amazing to
me how the young people
00:13:05.18\00:13:07.58
want to hang around.
00:13:07.62\00:13:08.95
Well, we respect
you here tremendously.
00:13:08.98\00:13:11.32
We respect what you believe,
00:13:11.35\00:13:14.32
we respect your
mind and your ethics.
00:13:14.36\00:13:18.13
Now I know
enough about astronomy
00:13:18.16\00:13:21.36
after reading your books
to be just slightly dangerous.
00:13:21.40\00:13:25.93
So I just want you to be
a little kind to me today.
00:13:25.97\00:13:28.37
Sure.
00:13:28.40\00:13:29.74
If I say some really dumb things
00:13:29.77\00:13:31.54
that you'll just sort
of cover it up for me.
00:13:31.57\00:13:35.24
The anthropic principle.
00:13:35.28\00:13:37.31
Now I want you
folks to listen to this,
00:13:37.35\00:13:40.32
put your thinking caps
on, the anthropic principle.
00:13:40.35\00:13:43.49
Got it?
00:13:43.52\00:13:44.85
What's the anthropic principle?
00:13:44.89\00:13:46.22
Well, it's
basically the evidence
00:13:46.25\00:13:48.52
for a fine-tuning design
that we see in the universe
00:13:48.56\00:13:51.69
that makes life possible
and human beings possible.
00:13:51.73\00:13:54.63
Why is it called anthropic?
00:13:54.66\00:13:56.87
Well, anthropos is
the Greek word for man.
00:13:56.90\00:13:58.83
Yes. Yeah.
00:13:58.87\00:14:00.20
So it's the idea
that the universe
00:14:00.24\00:14:02.20
has been designed to
provide a home for humanity,
00:14:02.24\00:14:05.91
but I'd argue it's
much more than that.
00:14:05.94\00:14:07.74
It's actually
designed to make possible
00:14:07.78\00:14:10.21
the redemption of
billions of human beings.
00:14:10.25\00:14:12.58
You know, this is a...
00:14:12.61\00:14:14.98
Last point there...
00:14:15.02\00:14:16.65
I've read some of
your books on this.
00:14:16.69\00:14:18.19
This is quite
an amazing concept.
00:14:18.22\00:14:20.89
But tell me now and I
want everybody out there
00:14:20.92\00:14:24.83
to listen to this
00:14:24.86\00:14:26.49
because you're
probably not going to hear this
00:14:26.53\00:14:27.86
anywhere else,
00:14:27.90\00:14:29.23
the fine-tuning of the universe,
00:14:29.26\00:14:32.50
anthropic principle.
00:14:32.53\00:14:34.04
The universe is
designed for the human race.
00:14:34.07\00:14:38.11
Tell me about the fine tuning.
00:14:38.14\00:14:39.67
Give me some examples, please.
00:14:39.71\00:14:42.34
Well, for example,
all the laws of physics
00:14:42.38\00:14:45.01
are fine-tuned to make possible
the existence of physical life.
00:14:45.05\00:14:49.18
I mean, for example,
if you were to halter
00:14:49.22\00:14:51.49
the force of gravity
00:14:51.52\00:14:52.85
relative to the
force of electromagnetism
00:14:52.89\00:14:55.92
as little as 1 part in 10,000
trillion, trillion, trillion,
00:14:55.96\00:14:59.93
you're not going
to have stable stars.
00:14:59.96\00:15:01.60
I got a feeling
that sort of slipped...
00:15:01.63\00:15:03.43
I got a feeling
that sort of slipped
00:15:03.47\00:15:04.90
through my mind
a little abruptly.
00:15:04.93\00:15:09.30
Say that again.
00:15:09.34\00:15:11.67
The laws of physics...
00:15:11.71\00:15:13.04
The laws of physics...
00:15:13.07\00:15:14.41
Are exquisitely fine-tuned...
00:15:14.44\00:15:15.78
All of them?
00:15:15.81\00:15:17.15
All of them are. Yeah.
00:15:17.18\00:15:19.11
And the gross
features of the universe,
00:15:19.15\00:15:21.12
the age of the universe,
the size of the universe,
00:15:21.15\00:15:23.18
the mass of the universe...
00:15:23.22\00:15:24.55
Tell me this thing you
told me about, what was it?
00:15:24.59\00:15:27.29
You said it's fine-tuned
and you gave an illustration.
00:15:27.32\00:15:29.69
Yeah.
00:15:29.72\00:15:31.49
There are four
forces of physics.
00:15:31.53\00:15:33.03
Yeah.
00:15:33.06\00:15:34.40
And the force of
gravity is much weaker
00:15:34.43\00:15:36.30
than the force
of electromagnetism.
00:15:36.33\00:15:38.37
It must be much weaker
in order for stable stars
00:15:38.40\00:15:42.10
to exist in the universe.
00:15:42.14\00:15:44.01
In fact, you have to fine-tune
00:15:44.04\00:15:46.27
the ratio of the
gravitational force
00:15:46.31\00:15:49.01
to the electromagnetic
force to better than one part
00:15:49.04\00:15:52.91
in 10,000
trillion, trillion, trillion,
00:15:52.95\00:15:56.82
otherwise stars
will instantly explode
00:15:56.85\00:15:59.29
or they'll never
form in the first place,
00:15:59.32\00:16:01.52
and the stars you need to
make physical life possible
00:16:01.56\00:16:04.69
will never exist in universe.
00:16:04.73\00:16:06.33
On one other
occasion, in Arcadia,
00:16:06.36\00:16:08.83
I had the privilege
of interviewing you.
00:16:08.86\00:16:11.40
And you held up a dime,
00:16:11.43\00:16:13.70
I'm sure you
don't remember this.
00:16:13.74\00:16:15.07
Oh, I remember that.
00:16:15.10\00:16:16.44
Ah, you remember...
00:16:16.47\00:16:17.81
And you said if the
mass of the universe
00:16:17.84\00:16:21.98
wear out by the
weight of a dime...
00:16:22.01\00:16:25.58
Relative to the weigh of
the rest of the universe.
00:16:25.61\00:16:28.08
Yes.
00:16:28.12\00:16:29.45
So tell me that again
because I said to you,
00:16:29.48\00:16:31.39
"Who else believes.
00:16:31.42\00:16:32.75
Does anybody else believe?
00:16:32.79\00:16:34.16
Who else believes this?"
00:16:34.19\00:16:35.66
And you basically said,
"Every educated person."
00:16:35.69\00:16:38.93
Well, it's been
slightly refined.
00:16:38.96\00:16:40.86
I mean, that
statement I made in Arcadia
00:16:40.90\00:16:43.77
was presuming that we
didn't have dark energy.
00:16:43.80\00:16:46.53
Oh!
00:16:46.57\00:16:47.90
We now know that the universe
is dominated by dark energy.
00:16:47.94\00:16:50.44
Yeah.
00:16:50.47\00:16:51.81
What's the
proportion, dark energy?
00:16:51.84\00:16:53.64
Seventy-one
percent of all the stuff
00:16:53.68\00:16:55.44
of the universe is dark energy.
00:16:55.48\00:16:57.15
That doesn't
include dark matter?
00:16:57.18\00:16:59.38
Oh, the dark matter is 23%.
00:16:59.41\00:17:01.15
Okay.
00:17:01.18\00:17:02.52
And the ordinary
matter is about 4.5%.
00:17:02.55\00:17:04.82
So it's over 90%
00:17:04.85\00:17:06.19
which is dark
matter and dark energy?
00:17:06.22\00:17:08.69
Well, we add up the dark stuff,
00:17:08.72\00:17:10.86
all of dark matter
and the dark energy,
00:17:10.89\00:17:14.10
it adds up to 99.73%
00:17:14.13\00:17:17.50
of all the
stuff of the universe.
00:17:17.53\00:17:18.87
And so when we look at
the universe, at the stars,
00:17:18.90\00:17:21.87
and everything, we're seeing...
00:17:21.90\00:17:24.27
A quarter of a percent.
00:17:24.31\00:17:25.64
A quarter of one percent.
00:17:25.67\00:17:27.01
And that's not because
00:17:27.04\00:17:29.41
the telescopes
are not big enough?
00:17:29.44\00:17:30.81
Oh, no.
00:17:30.85\00:17:32.18
We can see
plenty far enough away,
00:17:32.21\00:17:33.62
but the reason...
00:17:33.65\00:17:34.98
But the stuff, we can't see it.
00:17:35.02\00:17:36.38
Well, you have to fine-tune
that quantity of dark stuff
00:17:36.42\00:17:40.62
to better than 1 part
to 10 to the 122nd power
00:17:40.66\00:17:45.19
or you will not get
physical life in the universe.
00:17:45.23\00:17:48.10
And that's
fine-tuning far greater
00:17:48.13\00:17:49.90
than that dime
illustration, way greater.
00:17:49.93\00:17:52.33
So I won't be
using the dime anymore.
00:17:52.37\00:17:55.47
Well, it's still
a good illustration,
00:17:55.50\00:17:56.84
but the fine-tuning
is even more impressive.
00:17:56.87\00:17:58.21
I've got pictures
00:17:58.24\00:17:59.57
and I've got graphs on the dime.
00:17:59.61\00:18:00.94
I was so impressed.
00:18:00.98\00:18:02.68
I talked about this in
Russia and wherever I went.
00:18:02.71\00:18:05.38
I don't know how
many people understood it,
00:18:05.41\00:18:07.95
but I was certainly impressed.
00:18:07.98\00:18:11.65
So now the fine-tuning
is tied in with gravity
00:18:11.69\00:18:17.06
and dark energy?
00:18:17.09\00:18:20.43
Every feature
00:18:20.46\00:18:21.80
that we can
measure of the universe
00:18:21.83\00:18:23.80
and every feature
of the laws of physics
00:18:23.83\00:18:26.07
shows us incredible high
degree of fine-tuning design
00:18:26.10\00:18:30.41
to make life possible.
00:18:30.44\00:18:32.47
The other thing we noticed
is the fine-tuning goes up
00:18:32.51\00:18:35.74
when you start about,
00:18:35.78\00:18:37.11
okay, what do we
need to get a bacterium?
00:18:37.15\00:18:39.28
What do we need to get
bacteria that last long enough
00:18:39.31\00:18:42.08
to make plants
and animals possible?
00:18:42.12\00:18:43.59
Yeah.
00:18:43.62\00:18:44.95
If you're talking about animals,
00:18:44.99\00:18:46.32
the fine-tuning goes up
orders of magnitude more,
00:18:46.35\00:18:48.79
and then for humans,
00:18:48.82\00:18:50.86
it exponentially
increases the fine-tuning
00:18:50.89\00:18:53.36
you need to get human beings.
00:18:53.40\00:18:54.83
But the greatest increase of all
00:18:54.86\00:18:57.23
is if you want a
universe with humans
00:18:57.27\00:18:59.93
or humans can
retain their free will
00:18:59.97\00:19:02.57
and be permanently
delivered from sin and evil.
00:19:02.60\00:19:04.97
That's the
greatest fine-tuning of all.
00:19:05.01\00:19:07.71
And what impresses
me about the study,
00:19:07.74\00:19:09.58
the universe, and the earth,
00:19:09.61\00:19:11.51
everything in the
universe has been designed
00:19:11.55\00:19:14.72
to make possible the
redemption of human beings.
00:19:14.75\00:19:18.89
These are amazing concepts
00:19:18.92\00:19:20.72
because when I read
the Pew Research report,
00:19:20.76\00:19:25.99
the young people who
are leaving the church
00:19:26.03\00:19:28.16
by drove say,
00:19:28.20\00:19:29.53
because they haven't
been taught these things
00:19:29.56\00:19:31.37
and the church hasn't
been teaching these things,
00:19:31.40\00:19:36.34
they say there is no evidence.
00:19:36.37\00:19:39.04
Well, obviously they
just don't know, do they?
00:19:39.07\00:19:41.74
No one's presented
the evidence for them, no.
00:19:41.78\00:19:45.05
And I speak on
university campuses,
00:19:45.08\00:19:47.05
I discovered these young people
00:19:47.08\00:19:48.68
are really eager to
hear about the evidence.
00:19:48.72\00:19:50.92
Great audience. Yeah.
00:19:50.95\00:19:52.32
How many university
campuses have you been to?
00:19:52.35\00:19:55.42
About 350.
00:19:55.46\00:19:57.33
That's
basically here in the USA?
00:19:57.36\00:20:00.00
No, it's including
those around the world.
00:20:00.03\00:20:01.96
All right.
00:20:02.00\00:20:03.33
And you've been to
Loma Linda and other places?
00:20:03.37\00:20:06.30
Then you tell me you
went to a great college
00:20:06.33\00:20:09.47
down in the Caribbean.
00:20:09.50\00:20:11.31
It was the University
of the Southern Caribbean.
00:20:11.34\00:20:14.04
So I've been to all three USCs,
00:20:14.08\00:20:16.78
University of
Southern California,
00:20:16.81\00:20:18.28
University of South Carolina,
00:20:18.31\00:20:19.75
and the University of
the Southern Caribbean.
00:20:19.78\00:20:22.32
And so on these campuses,
00:20:22.35\00:20:24.22
you find young people who
are searching for answers,
00:20:24.25\00:20:29.62
looking for ultimate reality.
00:20:29.66\00:20:31.29
Is this true?
00:20:31.33\00:20:32.66
I find that young people
are more spiritually searching
00:20:32.69\00:20:35.20
than the older generations.
00:20:35.23\00:20:36.87
And their minds
are not so closed.
00:20:36.90\00:20:39.17
Well, they're eager to dialogue,
00:20:39.20\00:20:40.77
they do not
want to hear sermons.
00:20:40.80\00:20:42.87
No. They don't want to.
00:20:42.90\00:20:44.41
They want to be
able to engage you.
00:20:44.44\00:20:46.61
And so what we do is
00:20:46.64\00:20:47.98
we go on these
university campuses
00:20:48.01\00:20:49.48
with a relatively short message
and a long time with Q&A,
00:20:49.51\00:20:53.88
and then we follow that
00:20:53.92\00:20:55.25
with informal
one-on-one dialogue.
00:20:55.28\00:20:57.42
So they don't want
someone pontificating to them?
00:20:57.45\00:21:00.32
They don't. They
want to engage you.
00:21:00.36\00:21:02.09
They want to, you know,
00:21:02.12\00:21:03.73
take you down the
path they want to go.
00:21:03.76\00:21:06.03
And I find they will hang around
00:21:06.06\00:21:07.73
till midnight talking to you,
00:21:07.76\00:21:09.10
that's how hungry they
are, find out about the stuff.
00:21:09.13\00:21:10.47
And they are receptive?
00:21:10.50\00:21:11.83
Very receptive.
00:21:11.87\00:21:13.20
And they don't
have closed minds?
00:21:13.23\00:21:14.57
They don't have closed minds.
00:21:14.60\00:21:15.94
And I think the
churches needs to realize
00:21:15.97\00:21:17.44
this is a different generation.
00:21:17.47\00:21:19.37
They want dialogue.
00:21:19.41\00:21:20.74
They want engagement.
00:21:20.78\00:21:22.11
And they want us to deal
with the really hard questions.
00:21:22.14\00:21:24.75
And so Jesus, I think,
00:21:24.78\00:21:26.15
would have got on
very well with them.
00:21:26.18\00:21:27.78
Oh, sure.
00:21:27.82\00:21:29.15
One thing I often do
in university campuses,
00:21:29.18\00:21:31.09
we're going to go into
Q&A, but we got a rule,
00:21:31.12\00:21:33.99
no softball questions,
00:21:34.02\00:21:35.49
we only want hardball questions.
00:21:35.52\00:21:37.73
And that's what the
young people want to do.
00:21:37.76\00:21:39.43
They want to be
able to engage you
00:21:39.46\00:21:40.80
with really
challenging questions.
00:21:40.83\00:21:43.50
Now this is not going to be easy
00:21:43.53\00:21:46.07
because I probably
won't be the best interviewer
00:21:46.10\00:21:49.84
that's ever lived on
the face of the earth.
00:21:49.87\00:21:52.87
We're going to try to get...
00:21:52.91\00:21:55.58
Well, you're going to
get them, top 10 reasons.
00:21:55.61\00:21:59.35
I can do that for you. Okay.
00:21:59.38\00:22:00.72
Now you've given us one on...
00:22:00.75\00:22:02.72
What are we going
to call the first one?
00:22:02.75\00:22:04.95
I'd say you want to start off
00:22:04.99\00:22:06.45
with the origin of the universe,
00:22:06.49\00:22:08.36
then we look at the universe
00:22:08.39\00:22:09.92
all the
observational evidence...
00:22:09.96\00:22:11.79
So we're going to put this up.
00:22:11.83\00:22:14.76
Number 1, top 10.
00:22:14.80\00:22:16.13
We've already
given lots of stuff,
00:22:16.16\00:22:18.10
but we're going
to sort of get...
00:22:18.13\00:22:19.57
I'm going to get a
little more organized now.
00:22:19.60\00:22:22.54
And the first top 10
reason is going to be
00:22:22.57\00:22:25.44
the origin of the universe.
00:22:25.47\00:22:27.28
Right.
00:22:27.31\00:22:28.64
What is the origin
of the universe suggests
00:22:28.68\00:22:31.45
that there is a Creator God
such as described in the Bible?
00:22:31.48\00:22:36.82
Well, we now have
00:22:36.85\00:22:38.19
a huge amount of
observational evidence
00:22:38.22\00:22:40.39
about the
history of the universe,
00:22:40.42\00:22:42.49
100% of that observational
evidence screams at us
00:22:42.52\00:22:45.89
that the
universe has a beginning.
00:22:45.93\00:22:47.93
And this is beyond controversy.
00:22:47.96\00:22:49.66
It's beyond controversy.
00:22:49.70\00:22:51.03
And we're not just talking
beginning of matter and energy,
00:22:51.07\00:22:54.17
we're talking of beginning
of space and time itself.
00:22:54.20\00:22:57.97
Based on these observations,
theoretical astrophysicists
00:22:58.01\00:23:01.44
have developed over
30 spacetime theorems,
00:23:01.48\00:23:05.01
which basically prove
00:23:05.05\00:23:06.82
that the universe
not only has a beginning
00:23:06.85\00:23:09.02
but that's when space
and time were created,
00:23:09.05\00:23:11.99
which implies there must be
an agent beyond space and time
00:23:12.02\00:23:15.82
that created our universe,
00:23:15.86\00:23:17.19
matter, energy, space, and time.
00:23:17.23\00:23:19.79
And what I find
interesting about that,
00:23:19.83\00:23:22.13
the Eastern religions
claim that God creates
00:23:22.16\00:23:24.67
within space and time
that eternally exists.
00:23:24.70\00:23:27.94
And this goes around
in circles, doesn't it?
00:23:27.97\00:23:30.04
Well, some of them are circular,
00:23:30.07\00:23:31.84
and there's a variety of models
within the Eastern religions.
00:23:31.87\00:23:35.08
But what they all have in common
00:23:35.11\00:23:36.85
is that God or gods
create within space and time.
00:23:36.88\00:23:40.48
The God of the
Bible is different.
00:23:40.52\00:23:42.45
He creates
independent of space and time.
00:23:42.48\00:23:44.95
So He makes space and time?
00:23:44.99\00:23:46.49
He creates space and time
and He creates the universe,
00:23:46.52\00:23:49.46
and now we can prove that
00:23:49.49\00:23:50.86
with the rigor of
observations and theorems.
00:23:50.89\00:23:53.80
So this is not...
00:23:53.83\00:23:55.16
this not just talk?
00:23:55.20\00:23:56.53
It's not just
talk. Now this is...
00:23:56.56\00:23:58.17
I say to some of
my Christian friends,
00:23:58.20\00:24:01.54
don't be afraid when we
talk about these things.
00:24:01.57\00:24:04.64
Jesus said,
"You'll know the truth
00:24:04.67\00:24:07.18
and the truth
will make you free."
00:24:07.21\00:24:09.14
So listen to the truth.
00:24:09.18\00:24:12.38
Many Christians,
00:24:12.41\00:24:13.75
including
members of my own church,
00:24:13.78\00:24:16.22
are terrified by
the term the Big Bang.
00:24:16.25\00:24:21.06
They shouldn't be.
00:24:21.09\00:24:22.69
They think it's evolution.
00:24:22.72\00:24:24.99
Well, the Big Bang is the
most highly fine-tuned thing
00:24:25.03\00:24:28.56
we can observe
in all of science.
00:24:28.60\00:24:30.37
And it's got nothing
to do with evolution?
00:24:30.40\00:24:32.87
In fact, it's the opposite.
00:24:32.90\00:24:34.74
The opposite of evolution.
00:24:34.77\00:24:36.60
Well, for example,
00:24:36.64\00:24:37.97
you're already part
of the 20th century.
00:24:38.01\00:24:39.51
There is a debate on
the astronomical community,
00:24:39.54\00:24:42.64
is the universe
quadrillions of years old
00:24:42.68\00:24:45.18
with enough time for
biological evolution?
00:24:45.21\00:24:47.88
Quadrillions of years old.
00:24:47.92\00:24:49.25
Quadrillions or
is it only billions.
00:24:49.28\00:24:51.92
And now we have the evidence
that the universe is young.
00:24:51.95\00:24:54.39
It's only billions years of old.
00:24:54.42\00:24:55.76
Now quadrillion is
very, very old, isn't it?
00:24:55.79\00:24:58.16
Well, that's...
00:24:58.19\00:25:00.96
That's, you know, billion,
trillion, million years, so...
00:25:01.00\00:25:05.57
And that's about the time
that, I think, would be needed
00:25:05.60\00:25:09.60
for the
evolutionary process to work.
00:25:09.64\00:25:11.81
What's with astronomers
who are saying the early 1920s,
00:25:11.84\00:25:14.61
we want save the
biological evolutionary model.
00:25:14.64\00:25:18.01
We need a minimum
of 1,000 trillion years
00:25:18.05\00:25:21.38
or quadrillion years.
00:25:21.42\00:25:22.75
So how old?
00:25:22.78\00:25:24.29
A thousand trillion?
00:25:24.32\00:25:25.65
At least to thousand trillion.
00:25:25.69\00:25:27.02
I would argue today,
00:25:27.06\00:25:28.39
we need a lot
more time than that.
00:25:28.42\00:25:29.76
But back then, that's
what they were saying.
00:25:29.79\00:25:31.13
That's for Darwinism to work.
00:25:31.16\00:25:32.49
That's for
Darwinism or the modern,
00:25:32.53\00:25:35.23
you know, evolutionary models.
00:25:35.26\00:25:36.87
Yes. Yes.
00:25:36.90\00:25:38.83
But astronomers said,
"No, there is not enough time,
00:25:38.87\00:25:41.90
it's only 14 billion years."
00:25:41.94\00:25:43.77
Now, Dr. Ross, I know
the Bible a little bit
00:25:43.81\00:25:47.38
and you know it
very well I'm sure.
00:25:47.41\00:25:51.88
The Bible doesn't
set out to tell us
00:25:51.91\00:25:54.68
when the universe was created.
00:25:54.72\00:25:56.89
It doesn't.
00:25:56.92\00:25:58.25
But you know what shocked
me when I first inspected Bible
00:25:58.29\00:26:00.72
at the age 17 is that all
the fundamental principles,
00:26:00.76\00:26:05.99
a Big Bang cosmology
were stated in the Bible.
00:26:06.03\00:26:08.96
I'm sure. Thousands of years.
00:26:09.00\00:26:10.60
I'm sure.
00:26:10.63\00:26:11.97
Like this
expansion of the universe.
00:26:12.00\00:26:13.34
Yes.
00:26:13.37\00:26:14.70
That's, you
know, six different...
00:26:14.74\00:26:16.07
Yeah, I read all
of this stuff. Yeah.
00:26:16.10\00:26:17.67
Now tell me if I'm
right or if I'm wrong,
00:26:17.71\00:26:21.54
but I understand from astronomy,
00:26:21.58\00:26:26.82
looking through the telescopes,
all other sorts of things,
00:26:26.85\00:26:31.35
it can be
defined quite precisely.
00:26:31.39\00:26:34.26
And we're not
talking about this world,
00:26:34.29\00:26:35.82
we're not talking
about human beings,
00:26:35.86\00:26:37.76
but the cosmos, space,
00:26:37.79\00:26:40.83
time came into being
about 13.8 billion years ago.
00:26:40.86\00:26:46.37
Right, 13.79, they
cut out the 4 places now.
00:26:46.40\00:26:49.84
They've changed it a little bit.
00:26:49.87\00:26:51.47
Just a tiny bit.
00:26:51.51\00:26:52.84
It was 13.82, wasn't it? No?
00:26:52.87\00:26:55.41
Well, one
measurement says 13.81,
00:26:55.44\00:26:57.81
another measurement says 13.877,
00:26:57.85\00:27:00.45
the average of two is 13.79.
00:27:00.48\00:27:03.15
Okay. I'll try to remember that.
00:27:03.18\00:27:04.89
So if you're ever in
my audience, I won't,
00:27:04.92\00:27:07.66
you know, make a faux pas.
00:27:07.69\00:27:10.06
So the point of
the matter is though,
00:27:10.09\00:27:12.59
and I want
everybody to hear this
00:27:12.63\00:27:14.10
and we're going
to talk about this
00:27:14.13\00:27:15.46
more in the next interview,
00:27:15.50\00:27:17.77
that the Bible teaches
the beginning of all things.
00:27:17.80\00:27:22.60
And astronomy proves
that the Bible was right.
00:27:22.64\00:27:26.68
Correct.
00:27:26.71\00:27:28.04
The Bible stated that
God created space and time
00:27:28.08\00:27:31.41
when He created the universe.
00:27:31.45\00:27:32.78
We can now prove that
with the rigor of astrophysics.
00:27:32.81\00:27:36.42
The Bible thousands of years ago
00:27:36.45\00:27:37.89
said the universe is expanding.
00:27:37.92\00:27:40.29
Astronomers had no idea
of that until the 1920s.
00:27:40.32\00:27:44.03
And now we got evidence
00:27:44.06\00:27:45.39
and the Bible
got that part right,
00:27:45.43\00:27:46.80
the Bible also...
00:27:46.83\00:27:48.16
the laws of
physics don't change.
00:27:48.20\00:27:50.03
We can measure
the laws of physics
00:27:50.07\00:27:51.53
all the way back to
the cosmic creation event,
00:27:51.57\00:27:54.24
we see no change in
the laws of physics,
00:27:54.27\00:27:56.57
exactly what the Bible
said thousands of years ago.
00:27:56.60\00:27:59.34
I'm talking to Dr. Hugh Ross
who is a famous astrophysicist.
00:27:59.37\00:28:05.08
And we'll be
back after this break.
00:28:05.11\00:28:07.55
For a copy of today's program,
00:28:20.76\00:28:22.73
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00:28:22.76\00:28:26.30
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00:28:26.33\00:28:30.51
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