From Arcadia, California,
the Carter Report presents
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"The Living
Word" around the world.
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Hello friend, I am John Carter.
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We're talking today with
two distinguish scientists
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and we're talking about
the Theory of Evolution.
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Is it true or is it
false the theory of evolution.
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My two guests are from
great organization called
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Reasons to Believe.
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Dr. Hugh Ross,
a noted astronomer
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and Dr. Fazale
Rana, a noted biologist.
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The theory of evolution,
welcome to the program.
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the new Carter Report
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I want to hear from you today.
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Welcome to the program.
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We're talking today
about the theory of evolution.
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Dr. Ross, very
warm welcome to you.
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Thank you.
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Dr. Rana, we are delighted
to have you both with us today.
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Is science incompatible
with Christian faith and belief?
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Many people like Richard
Dawkins tell me it is so.
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Well, he is right that science
can test our belief systems
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and that we are in an
agreement with him on that
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but we disagree
because we believe
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that science actually
establish as a Christian faith.
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And the Bible commands us
to use the record of nature
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to establish the existence
of God and His attributes.
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So God doesn't tell
us to check our brains
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in at the door
when we come to church?
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We're commanded
to read both books,
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the book of scripture
and the book of nature.
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And you think
they're both in harmony?
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Yes, very much so.
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From your own
personal perspective
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why do you believe
this, you are a scientist
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and yet you are
professing born-again believer?
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Everywhere I
look in the creation,
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I just see
overwhelming evidence for design
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whether it's at
an astronomical level
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looking at the cosmos
or at the microscopic level
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looking at how bio-chemical
systems are put together.
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I just see
overwhelming evidence for design
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for God's fingerprints.
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You have an organization,
you are the president
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and you are the vice-president
of Reasons to Believe.
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You are in beautiful California
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with all the
smog and everything.
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You obviously
believe that a person
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can be an intellectual
and have an intelligent
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faith in God, obviously.
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Dr. Dawkins is a
probably a genius,
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he's from Oxford University.
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He would
disagree with us entirely,
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Dr. Richard Dawkins.
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He believes that God is a myth
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and of course he's a great
proponent of the idea that--
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and he wouldn't
put it in this terms
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but I am doing so,
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sort of cutting
to the bottom-line.
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He's a great
proponent of the idea
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that if you leave gas
alone by itself long enough,
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starting with
hydrogen it will become
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people singing and dancing.
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Now one of the arguments
he uses that I think is very
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anti-intellectual argument
from this very intellectual man
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is that believers and Christians
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have done some bad things.
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This is one of His big premises.
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Christians have done
some really bad things,
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wicked things therefore
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the Bible and
religion it's all wrong.
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Has he got a point?
Have Christians done--
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Have religious
people done bad things?
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Well, certainly they
have but what I think
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where Dawkins is
going wrong is God tells us
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in the scriptures
that we people are failures
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and we should
expect based on the Bible
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that people will do "bad thing."
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Yes, yes.
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But God has also
told us there's a way out
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and that's the
value of Christianity.
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You know, my concern
about Richard Dawkins
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is his arguments
against the Christian faith
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are straw man arguments.
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They are indeed. Yeah.
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Yes, and his arguments
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against the Christian
faith, is this not true
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can be used against atheists?
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Well, I mean for example,
going back to this point
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that human beings
have done some bad things
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but human beings also have
this capacity for altruism.
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And what unique
among all creatures
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and that we have
this ability to not--
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I scratch your
back you scratch my back
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type of altruism but altruism
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where it's complete generosity
where I have nothing to benefit
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from doing good things for you.
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And again, scripture teaches us
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that we are made in God's image
and that big bearing God's image
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we have this
capacity to do good things
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is that image of God has
been marred because of sin,
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so we do bad things as well.
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Professor Dawkins
wrote a book you know,
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on The Selfish Gene but
another Oxford professor
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wrote a book
called The Selfless Gene
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and the argument of
that Oxford professor
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against Richard
Dawkins is that there is in man
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a gift from God
that does good things
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for the sake of doing good,
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not simply as a
benefit to that person.
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All right then, when I
think about Dr. Dawkins
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and I've listened to him
and I've read some of his books.
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What I think he
fails to comprehend
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is the truth
that you've taught--
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the Bible teaches
that we are sinners
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and need a redemption
but if you want to see
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some really bad things
you only need to go to Russia.
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I've been there 42 times
and think that during the time
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when the communists and
the atheists were in charge,
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you had about
between 15-17 million
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people put to death, murdered.
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So here's an argument if
we're going to use arguments
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against Christians because
I've done some bad things
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like the Spanish inquisition,
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here's an argument
against atheism, is it not?
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Yes, but evolution in the sense
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is used by many people
to justify their atheism.
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Tell me more why
you would say this?
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Well, the idea is
that if everything
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can just evolve on its
own, then we don't need God to--
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You got to be
super foolish. Right.
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In fact even Dawkins said
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evolution has allowed me
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to become an intellectually
satisfied atheist.
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So the theory of evolution
is used to fuel atheism.
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Yes.
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You are a biologist,
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tell me the most
compelling reasons
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right from your heart
the most compelling reasons
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you find in the world of biology
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why a thinking
person can believe in God?
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To me it's just the incredible
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elegant designs
of biological systems
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whether it's at the
level of an organism
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or at the level of a cell.
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The way these
systems are put together,
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it's so elegant
and so sophisticated
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and so clever that
was what prompted me
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to believe that
there had to be a mind
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behind
everything as an agnostic.
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Now you know-- you
know a trillion times
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more about these
things than I do,
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at least a trillion, maybe more.
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You know, your argument
of the one quadrillionth
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of the one quadrillionth
of one quadrillionth.
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Well, that's
about where I am at,
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you know, with biology.
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Give me some specific examples.
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Look upon me now as an agnostic,
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not an atheist but an agnostic.
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A person who says,
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I don't know what to believe
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and I am on the
point of accepting
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or not
accepting, of going with God
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or becoming
like Richard Dawkins.
00:10:01.03\00:10:03.45
Hit me with the--
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Give me some hard
arguments why I should believe.
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Well, one of the things
that I find to be mind-boggling
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as a biochemist is
that the way in which
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biochemical
systems are put together
00:10:13.76\00:10:16.27
is identical to how
we would design systems
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as human engineers
and human designers.
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And this is
essentially revitalizing
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the old watchmaker
argument of William Paley,
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a watch requires a mind--
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Do you think that's
a legitimate argument?
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I do because that argument
is taken to the next level
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and the next level
with what we've learned
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about biochemical systems.
00:10:37.80\00:10:39.57
So for example the way
in which DNA is managed
00:10:39.60\00:10:44.05
and manipulated by
the cells machinery
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is identical to how computer
systems fundamentally function.
00:10:46.28\00:10:50.86
This British
mathematician Alan Turing
00:10:50.89\00:10:53.07
devised something
called the Turing machine
00:10:53.10\00:10:55.36
which is the
theoretical framework
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for how
computer systems operate.
00:10:58.00\00:10:59.94
And inside the cell
when you look at how
00:10:59.97\00:11:02.13
DNA is manipulated, it literally
00:11:02.16\00:11:04.54
is a collection
of Turing machines
00:11:04.57\00:11:06.93
that are operating on the DNA.
00:11:06.96\00:11:08.83
The cell in effect
is a very sophisticated
00:11:08.86\00:11:11.70
computer system
at its very essence.
00:11:11.73\00:11:14.04
And we all have computer systems
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or most people
do sitting on their,
00:11:17.63\00:11:20.12
you know, on their office desks.
00:11:20.15\00:11:21.88
Nobody in their right mind would
think that a computer system
00:11:21.91\00:11:25.76
just simply came about through
00:11:25.79\00:11:27.69
the assembly of
individual component parts.
00:11:27.72\00:11:32.74
And so why would we think
00:11:32.77\00:11:33.96
when we look at
biochemical systems
00:11:33.99\00:11:35.98
that at essence
our computer systems
00:11:36.01\00:11:38.05
but much more sophisticated,
00:11:38.08\00:11:40.29
why wouldn't we
think they came about
00:11:40.32\00:11:41.87
through simply chance of events.
00:11:41.90\00:11:43.73
That's an
argument that appeals to me
00:11:43.76\00:11:45.81
and I am sure to
many other people.
00:11:47.80\00:11:49.93
Let's go to
astronomy for a moment
00:11:49.96\00:11:52.51
and then let's come back
and we'll talk about the cell.
00:11:52.54\00:11:54.45
Can you give me, Dr. Ross,
00:11:56.75\00:11:58.42
as an astronomer
your strongest reason
00:11:58.45\00:12:02.29
that the universe
is fine-tuned for life?
00:12:02.32\00:12:05.15
You know we talked
about the Anthropic principle,
00:12:05.18\00:12:07.38
Anthropos, the
Greek word for man.
00:12:07.41\00:12:12.24
Look upon me as an agnostic,
00:12:12.27\00:12:13.63
give me your strongest reason
00:12:13.66\00:12:16.37
that the universe was
made for human beings.
00:12:16.40\00:12:18.98
Well, what I
would tell you right off
00:12:19.01\00:12:20.59
is this is no
longer an issue of debate.
00:12:20.62\00:12:23.33
All astronomers and
physicists recognize,
00:12:23.36\00:12:25.65
we look at the universe as a
whole in the laws of physics.
00:12:25.68\00:12:29.17
We see overwhelming evidence
that has been fine-tuned design
00:12:29.20\00:12:33.29
to make possible
existence of life
00:12:33.32\00:12:35.56
in human beings in particular
00:12:35.59\00:12:37.63
but that allows you
to keep at a distance.
00:12:37.66\00:12:39.79
You know the universe is big.
00:12:39.82\00:12:41.08
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:41.11\00:12:42.14
The truth is
that principle applies
00:12:42.17\00:12:44.21
when we look at our
cluster of galaxies.
00:12:44.24\00:12:46.53
We look at the design
features of a Milky Way Galaxy.
00:12:46.56\00:12:49.93
We look at our solar system,
the planets and the stars.
00:12:49.96\00:12:52.80
Look at our moon.
00:12:52.83\00:12:54.14
No matter all
levels of size scale
00:12:54.17\00:12:57.69
we see this overwhelming
evidence for design.
00:12:57.72\00:13:00.57
We see on the way the surface
of the earth is structured.
00:13:00.60\00:13:03.45
In fact if you
go to our website,
00:13:03.48\00:13:06.13
you'll see over
900 different features
00:13:06.16\00:13:09.21
that must be fine- tune designed
00:13:09.24\00:13:11.43
to make possible existence
of human beings on earth.
00:13:11.46\00:13:13.66
How fine tuning is it?
00:13:13.69\00:13:16.24
You say fine-tune,
00:13:16.27\00:13:17.36
but tell me
something, give me a figure.
00:13:17.39\00:13:20.70
Is it, if it's out by one in two
00:13:20.73\00:13:23.68
or by one in a hundred or what?
00:13:23.71\00:13:25.52
If you were to
ask me as a scientist,
00:13:25.55\00:13:27.15
where do we find the
most spectacular evidence
00:13:27.18\00:13:29.60
for fine tuning
design that we can measure,
00:13:29.63\00:13:31.86
it will be dark energy.
00:13:31.89\00:13:34.45
You know, dark energy tells us
00:13:34.48\00:13:35.82
how rapidly the
universe is gonna
00:13:35.85\00:13:37.60
expand over its history.
00:13:37.63\00:13:39.72
If it expanded too
quickly, all you get is gas,
00:13:39.75\00:13:42.45
if it expanded too
slowly all you gonna get
00:13:42.48\00:13:45.09
get are black
holes and neutron stars.
00:13:45.12\00:13:47.33
If you want the
stars and planets
00:13:47.36\00:13:49.22
for life as
possible that dark energy
00:13:49.25\00:13:52.04
must be fine-tune
to better than one part
00:13:52.07\00:13:55.17
in tenth to the
120 second power.
00:13:55.20\00:13:58.05
You say that last
bit again, to what?
00:13:58.08\00:14:00.80
One part in tenth to
the 120 second power.
00:14:00.83\00:14:04.27
That's 122 zeros after the one.
00:14:04.30\00:14:07.25
To put that in
context that exceeds
00:14:07.28\00:14:10.35
the best example of
human engineering design
00:14:10.38\00:14:13.19
by 10 to the 97 times.
00:14:13.22\00:14:16.15
We'll be back after this break.
00:14:16.18\00:14:18.28
We're talking about
the theory of evolution.
00:14:18.31\00:14:22.23
Hello friend, I am
John Carter in Colombia.
00:14:25.19\00:14:29.59
Behind me is the
great city of Bogota,
00:14:29.62\00:14:32.36
the capital of
this amazing country.
00:14:32.39\00:14:36.49
This city is a city of
more than eight million souls.
00:14:36.52\00:14:42.88
It's up more than
8,000 feet in the Andes.
00:14:42.91\00:14:48.24
And we've come here
today with one purpose in mind,
00:14:48.27\00:14:52.00
to preach the everlasting
gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
00:14:52.03\00:14:56.76
We are here because we
have a commission from God.
00:14:56.79\00:15:00.80
Jesus said, "Go
into all the world
00:15:00.83\00:15:04.08
and preach the
everlasting gospel,
00:15:04.11\00:15:06.98
baptizing them in
the name of the Father,
00:15:07.01\00:15:09.24
and of the Son and
of the Holy Spirit."
00:15:09.27\00:15:12.93
The people here need
the gospel of Christ.
00:15:12.96\00:15:17.27
And I am asking
you today come with us,
00:15:17.30\00:15:19.74
if not in body but
come with us in spirit.
00:15:19.77\00:15:23.57
This is been a
very, very dangerous city,
00:15:23.60\00:15:26.23
a very dangerous
part of the world.
00:15:26.26\00:15:29.41
But we believe that we are safe
when we are in the hands of God.
00:15:29.44\00:15:34.64
Therefore I am beseeching
you in the name of Christ
00:15:34.67\00:15:37.97
and in the names of these
eight million plus inhabitants
00:15:38.00\00:15:43.05
in the city of Bogota to come
00:15:43.08\00:15:46.52
and help us to
preach the word of God.
00:15:46.55\00:15:49.01
Please support the preaching
of the word of God in Columbia.
00:15:49.04\00:15:53.07
Please write to me, John Carter,
00:15:53.10\00:15:55.36
PO Box 1900, Thousand
Oaks, California, 91358.
00:15:55.39\00:16:01.67
In Australia, write
to me at the address,
00:16:01.70\00:16:04.72
Terrigal, New
South Wales, Australia.
00:16:04.75\00:16:08.82
Jesus said,
00:16:08.85\00:16:10.33
"Work while it is day
00:16:10.36\00:16:12.14
the night is coming
when no man can work."
00:16:12.17\00:16:15.41
Please write to me today.
00:16:15.44\00:16:17.91
Thank you and God bless you.
00:16:17.94\00:16:20.13
Welcome back to
the Carter Report.
00:16:26.40\00:16:28.75
We're talking today
about the theory of evolution.
00:16:28.78\00:16:32.47
I've two great guests with me.
00:16:32.50\00:16:34.99
Dr. Hugh Ross, glad to have you
00:16:35.02\00:16:36.73
with us today here
and Dr. Fazale Rana,
00:16:36.76\00:16:40.19
glad to have you with us.
00:16:40.22\00:16:41.25
Faz, describe to me
please in ten words or less,
00:16:41.28\00:16:49.14
describe to me the
complexity of a single cell
00:16:49.17\00:16:54.78
and tell me how it
could evolve from nothing.
00:16:54.81\00:16:58.36
Well, I mean the best analogy
would be to think of a city
00:16:58.39\00:17:02.25
like the city of Los
Angeles that in the fact is
00:17:02.28\00:17:05.42
the type of
complexity that you began to see
00:17:05.45\00:17:09.30
when you think about
what's happening inside--
00:17:09.33\00:17:10.68
Is this really so or
is this, pardon my saying,
00:17:10.71\00:17:14.26
is this a little hyped up?
00:17:14.29\00:17:17.60
Is the cell
really like Los Angeles?
00:17:17.63\00:17:19.46
It's probably even
much more sophisticated
00:17:19.49\00:17:22.30
and complex than
the city of Los Angeles.
00:17:22.33\00:17:24.80
Certainly better run.
00:17:24.83\00:17:27.73
Yeah, but, and you
know you are looking at
00:17:27.76\00:17:29.92
a collection of
operations and processes
00:17:29.95\00:17:33.44
that are taking place
that are highly integrated
00:17:33.47\00:17:35.58
in network together.
00:17:35.61\00:17:37.31
Break it down for
me as a lay person.
00:17:37.34\00:17:39.28
Describe how a cell--
00:17:39.31\00:17:41.21
do you understand
how a cell functions?
00:17:41.24\00:17:44.06
As hopefully as
much as anybody does.
00:17:44.09\00:17:46.32
I mean, we still are
learning more and more
00:17:46.35\00:17:47.87
about what's
going on in the cell.
00:17:47.90\00:17:48.93
But do you really
understand it? Yes, I think so.
00:17:48.96\00:17:50.99
Well, tell me then how does
00:17:51.02\00:17:52.66
a cell function and
describe the complexity?
00:17:52.69\00:17:55.36
Again, it's the system that is
00:17:55.39\00:17:57.38
extremely
complex, highly networked
00:17:57.41\00:17:59.90
where you've got
these complex processes
00:17:59.93\00:18:02.97
that are going on
where the different processes
00:18:03.00\00:18:05.19
are talking to each other
00:18:05.22\00:18:06.75
at the just
right time making sure
00:18:06.78\00:18:08.67
all the operations inside
the cell are taking place.
00:18:08.70\00:18:11.43
So you got a control
center and the nucleus.
00:18:11.46\00:18:14.22
How big is a cell?
00:18:14.25\00:18:16.00
Uh, it depends on the type
of cell you are dealing with.
00:18:16.03\00:18:18.78
Bacteria, about
a micron in size.
00:18:18.81\00:18:21.76
How big is a micron?
00:18:21.79\00:18:22.82
One millionth of a meter.
00:18:22.85\00:18:24.41
So about a millionth of a yard.
00:18:24.44\00:18:27.22
It's relatively small. Right.
00:18:28.50\00:18:31.56
Other type of cells that
are called eukaryotic cells--
00:18:31.59\00:18:34.12
So you gentlemen are
at the very opposite end.
00:18:34.15\00:18:37.04
Of the
spectrum, aren't you? Yes.
00:18:37.07\00:18:38.92
You are into the smallest
and you are into the biggest.
00:18:38.95\00:18:41.25
Right.
00:18:41.28\00:18:42.44
So this is a
great combination here.
00:18:42.47\00:18:43.92
There it is.
00:18:43.95\00:18:45.30
Okay, so we got
a thing that's a--
00:18:45.33\00:18:47.34
did you say a
millionth of a meter.
00:18:47.37\00:18:50.07
Yeah, that's--
Meter is 39 inches.
00:18:50.10\00:18:51.78
Yeah, that's-- that
would be a bacterium.
00:18:51.81\00:18:54.95
There are some cells
that are can be up to about
00:18:54.98\00:18:57.75
200 microns in
size that are just
00:18:57.78\00:19:00.33
barely visible
with the human eye.
00:19:00.36\00:19:02.04
Oh, so, it's quite big.
00:19:02.07\00:19:03.30
Yeah, so like an
egg cell for example.
00:19:03.33\00:19:05.13
Say you got a
membrane around this thing.
00:19:05.16\00:19:08.00
Right, so it's kind of like
00:19:08.03\00:19:09.21
the city wall and it controls--
00:19:09.24\00:19:11.68
And what's inside it?
00:19:11.71\00:19:13.24
Inside if it is again a
whole collection of molecules
00:19:13.27\00:19:16.68
that are carrying out all
kinds of different operations.
00:19:16.71\00:19:19.00
You have again,
00:19:19.03\00:19:20.40
the nucleus is the
control center it's-
00:19:20.43\00:19:22.37
and then it directs
the production of molecules
00:19:22.40\00:19:25.05
called proteins
which are the molecules
00:19:25.08\00:19:27.44
that are carrying out all
the activities in the cell.
00:19:27.47\00:19:29.83
This is like, these
are like the machines
00:19:29.86\00:19:32.47
but the production of these
machines is doing assembly line
00:19:32.50\00:19:35.74
like process happening at these
structures called the ribosome.
00:19:35.77\00:19:40.09
You've got
mitochondria which were
00:19:40.12\00:19:41.55
the power houses of the
cell that are producing energy
00:19:41.58\00:19:45.37
for the cell's
operations to use.
00:19:45.40\00:19:47.31
You've got highway
systems happening in the cell
00:19:47.34\00:19:50.61
that are moving
materials back and forth
00:19:50.64\00:19:53.12
to different location
at the just right time.
00:19:53.15\00:19:56.20
You know, I'm
talking now as a lay person,
00:19:56.23\00:20:00.63
you are talking as
scientist but it boggles my mind
00:20:00.66\00:20:05.35
to come to the viewpoint
that this happened by itself.
00:20:05.38\00:20:12.33
Basically it happened by itself.
00:20:12.36\00:20:14.19
Isn't that what the evolution--
atheistic evolution says?
00:20:14.22\00:20:17.89
That's exactly
they would argue that
00:20:17.92\00:20:19.83
it starts with simple
molecules that began to interact
00:20:19.86\00:20:23.58
and form more complex molecules
00:20:23.61\00:20:25.95
and then began to associate
into these conglomerates
00:20:25.98\00:20:29.32
that begin to adopt
the properties of life.
00:20:29.35\00:20:32.06
And so it's essentially
evolution applied to molecules
00:20:32.09\00:20:36.03
is how
evolutionary biologist attempt
00:20:36.06\00:20:38.62
to account for the
origination for life.
00:20:38.65\00:20:40.40
Now, let me play
the devil's advocate.
00:20:40.43\00:20:45.02
Many scientists believe that
life evolved on planet earth
00:20:45.05\00:20:49.64
over a relatively
short period of time.
00:20:49.67\00:20:52.90
They say that the earth is
so many billions of years old
00:20:52.93\00:20:57.11
and there was hideous period,
00:20:57.14\00:20:59.65
nothing could live
during the hideous period.
00:20:59.68\00:21:02.42
And then, correct
me if I am misquoting
00:21:02.45\00:21:05.60
but many
scientists believe there was
00:21:05.63\00:21:08.85
a window in time of
about 100 million years
00:21:08.88\00:21:14.32
and at the beginning of
the hundred million years
00:21:14.35\00:21:16.44
you got nothing,
00:21:16.47\00:21:17.50
at the end of the
hundred million years
00:21:17.53\00:21:19.61
you got life and
all those complexity.
00:21:19.64\00:21:23.97
In your opinion,
00:21:24.00\00:21:26.87
is it possible to go
00:21:26.90\00:21:28.25
from zero to a Los Angeles
00:21:28.28\00:21:34.85
running with
tremendous efficiency
00:21:34.88\00:21:36.87
in that relatively
short period of time?
00:21:36.90\00:21:41.17
I am highly
skeptical that could happen
00:21:41.20\00:21:43.16
and in fact most origin of life
researchers who are atheists,
00:21:43.19\00:21:47.41
who are committed to
the evolutionally paradigm
00:21:47.44\00:21:49.48
in private world readily admit
00:21:49.51\00:21:52.16
they have no way to
explain the origin of life.
00:21:52.19\00:21:55.34
Their commitment to
the evolutionally paradigm
00:21:55.37\00:21:58.26
is primarily
philosophical where you know,
00:21:58.29\00:22:01.71
they have already
rejected the notion
00:22:01.74\00:22:03.97
that this is designed,
00:22:04.00\00:22:05.62
this got to be
evolution but we have no clue
00:22:05.65\00:22:07.93
how that happened.
00:22:07.96\00:22:09.00
There's no alternative viewpoint
00:22:09.03\00:22:11.05
that's worthy of
their consideration.
00:22:11.08\00:22:12.94
And more and more that we
study the origin of life problem
00:22:12.97\00:22:15.90
the more and more
difficult the problem becomes.
00:22:15.93\00:22:19.14
Now this is going completely
in a different direction.
00:22:21.01\00:22:23.63
We're going to from the
smallest to the biggest.
00:22:23.66\00:22:26.45
Now you are a noted astronomer.
00:22:26.48\00:22:29.55
You have worked on
quasars and all of those things,
00:22:29.58\00:22:32.18
haven't you at Caltech? Yes.
00:22:32.21\00:22:33.41
Yes. What's a quasar?
00:22:33.44\00:22:35.16
Well, a quasar is a
super giant black hole
00:22:35.19\00:22:38.22
in center of a giant galaxy
00:22:38.25\00:22:40.07
that's sucking in
huge quantities of gas
00:22:40.10\00:22:42.52
and converting into a--
00:22:42.55\00:22:43.72
Much bugger than a cell. Yes.
00:22:43.75\00:22:45.26
So it's a vast thing? Yes.
00:22:47.06\00:22:49.30
Now the universe out there
is incredibly complex, isn't it?
00:22:49.33\00:22:53.11
It is.
00:22:53.14\00:22:55.41
But it's all working
together and is finely balanced.
00:22:55.44\00:22:59.42
Yes, for the benefit if life.
00:22:59.45\00:23:03.11
And so you told
us about dark energy.
00:23:03.14\00:23:08.08
Isn't that the
stuff that nobody knows
00:23:08.11\00:23:10.49
a lot about that composes
00:23:10.52\00:23:12.82
most of the
stuff in the universe?
00:23:12.85\00:23:15.59
Makes up of about three quarters
00:23:15.62\00:23:17.05
of all the
stuff of the universe.
00:23:17.08\00:23:18.67
That's the dark
energy. That's the dark energy.
00:23:18.70\00:23:20.71
That not the dark matter?
00:23:20.74\00:23:21.91
No. Dark matter
is something else.
00:23:21.94\00:23:23.71
What is it?
What's the percentage?
00:23:23.74\00:23:25.56
You put them both together,
it adds up to about 99.73%
00:23:25.59\00:23:29.49
of all the
stuff of the universe.
00:23:29.52\00:23:30.71
So most of the
stuff in the universe
00:23:30.74\00:23:32.11
we can't even
see, even with the--
00:23:32.14\00:23:33.54
we have telescopes.
00:23:33.57\00:23:34.69
All the stars and galaxies
00:23:34.72\00:23:36.04
that's a quarter of a percent
00:23:36.07\00:23:37.17
of all the
stuff of the universe.
00:23:37.20\00:23:38.41
Say it again.
Quarter of a percent.
00:23:38.44\00:23:40.20
So all the stuff we see,
stuff I put up on the screens
00:23:40.23\00:23:43.43
when I talk of astronomy.
00:23:43.46\00:23:44.99
Right. That's a
quarter of a percent.
00:23:45.02\00:23:46.10
All that tremendous
stuff I put up on the screen,
00:23:46.13\00:23:48.25
that's a quarter of one percent.
00:23:48.28\00:23:49.69
Right.
00:23:49.72\00:23:50.75
And the other stuff, we really
00:23:50.78\00:23:51.81
don't know much about it.
00:23:51.84\00:23:52.87
Well, we are
learning a lot about it
00:23:52.90\00:23:54.55
and we are learning that
it has to be exceptionally
00:23:54.58\00:23:56.79
fine-tune both in its quantity
00:23:56.82\00:23:59.32
and its specific
locations in the universe,
00:23:59.35\00:24:02.10
in order to make
possible the existence of life.
00:24:02.13\00:24:04.67
Is it not true
that the dark energy
00:24:04.70\00:24:08.97
is driving the
expansion of the universe?
00:24:09.00\00:24:11.36
It's a primary
factors not the only factor
00:24:11.39\00:24:14.16
but it's a
primary factor governing
00:24:14.19\00:24:16.21
the expansion of
the universe today.
00:24:16.24\00:24:18.73
When universe was young,
the matter of the universe
00:24:18.76\00:24:20.99
was actually more
important than the dark energy.
00:24:21.02\00:24:23.91
But you need both the matter
00:24:23.94\00:24:25.89
and the dark
energy to be fine-tuned.
00:24:25.92\00:24:28.56
Now what is-- when
you say fine-tuned,
00:24:28.59\00:24:31.38
to what extend
is the fine tuning?
00:24:31.41\00:24:33.73
Now it is the fact,
we know it's a fact.
00:24:33.76\00:24:37.09
People can't argue with this
00:24:37.12\00:24:38.39
that the universe
is expanding. Yes.
00:24:38.42\00:24:40.98
And universe did
have a beginning.
00:24:41.01\00:24:43.31
Now, of course this is
all in harmony with scripture.
00:24:43.34\00:24:46.36
Genesis 1, my old Bible says,
00:24:46.39\00:24:48.76
in the beginning God created
the heavens and the earth.
00:24:48.79\00:24:52.12
So the Bible doesn't
talk about a universe
00:24:52.15\00:24:55.44
that has no
beginning and no ending.
00:24:55.47\00:24:57.79
Not I like the
oscillations of the Hindus
00:24:57.82\00:25:01.46
and that noted astronomer
00:25:01.49\00:25:03.17
that you spoke about
in a previous program.
00:25:03.20\00:25:06.13
Okay,
00:25:06.16\00:25:09.77
if the universe were to
expand too fast or to slow down,
00:25:09.80\00:25:15.78
would not the
results be catastrophic?
00:25:15.81\00:25:18.02
It'd be
catastrophic in the sense
00:25:18.05\00:25:19.81
you would not have
the stars and planets
00:25:19.84\00:25:22.19
that you need to
make life possible
00:25:22.22\00:25:24.07
showing up at the right time
in a location of the universe.
00:25:24.10\00:25:27.28
So we wouldn't be
here. We wouldn't be here.
00:25:27.31\00:25:29.20
So break it down for me
and for my great audience
00:25:29.23\00:25:33.82
who are listening spell bound
to this program on evolution.
00:25:33.85\00:25:38.55
Tell me, try to
break it down to me
00:25:39.91\00:25:42.82
the fine tuning
of this dark matter
00:25:42.85\00:25:45.44
that is largely responsible for
the expansion of the universe
00:25:45.47\00:25:49.40
which is largely
responsible for us being here.
00:25:49.43\00:25:52.70
Well, there's two
components in the fine tuning.
00:25:52.73\00:25:55.14
The expansion of the universe
00:25:55.17\00:25:56.97
determines what
elements you are going to get.
00:25:57.00\00:25:59.81
And so for example
if you expand universe
00:25:59.84\00:26:01.87
too quickly all you
gonna get is nothing
00:26:01.90\00:26:03.87
but hydrogen and helium
00:26:03.90\00:26:05.27
of the whole
age of the universe.
00:26:05.30\00:26:07.41
And we can't live on that.
00:26:07.44\00:26:08.70
You can't live on
that or if you expanded
00:26:08.73\00:26:11.25
too slowly
everything gets fused up
00:26:11.28\00:26:13.31
to elements heavier than iron.
00:26:13.34\00:26:15.02
In both cases you are
lacking the carbon and nitrogen
00:26:15.05\00:26:18.31
and the oxygen,
the elements crucial
00:26:18.34\00:26:20.15
for the existence of life.
00:26:20.18\00:26:21.81
So just to get
the right chemistry
00:26:21.84\00:26:24.37
dark energy and the
mass of the universe
00:26:24.40\00:26:26.83
must be
extraordinary fine-tuned.
00:26:26.86\00:26:28.95
They also must be
extraordinary fine-tuned
00:26:28.98\00:26:31.76
to get stars and planets
so it makes life possible.
00:26:31.79\00:26:34.93
Expanded too
fast, stars won't form,
00:26:34.96\00:26:37.57
expanded too slowly,
all you get is big stars
00:26:37.60\00:26:40.80
that burn up quickly
00:26:40.83\00:26:42.16
and wind up being black
holes and neutron stars,
00:26:42.19\00:26:45.56
now where molecules
aren't even possible.
00:26:45.59\00:26:47.99
You can't have
life without molecules.
00:26:48.02\00:26:50.19
And the
astronomers are as far back
00:26:50.22\00:26:52.19
as 40 years ago determined
00:26:52.22\00:26:54.34
that the degree
of fine tuning design
00:26:54.37\00:26:56.96
is many, many
orders of miniature greater
00:26:56.99\00:27:00.00
than anything we human beings
are capable of which mean--
00:27:00.03\00:27:03.42
Comprehending. Yeah, yes.
00:27:03.45\00:27:05.60
Which means the one
that created the universe
00:27:05.63\00:27:08.75
must be much more intelligent,
00:27:08.78\00:27:10.56
knowledgeable
creator and powerful
00:27:10.59\00:27:13.05
than we human beings.
00:27:13.08\00:27:14.62
And we can
actually put a number on it
00:27:14.65\00:27:16.68
that eliminates all
the Gods from contention
00:27:16.71\00:27:19.48
except the one we see
described in the holy Bible.
00:27:19.51\00:27:22.71
And so it seems to
me, and in these areas
00:27:22.74\00:27:25.74
I am a complete lay person
00:27:25.77\00:27:27.38
that whether you
go from the smallest,
00:27:27.41\00:27:30.53
a micron inside a cell
or you go to the biggest,
00:27:30.56\00:27:35.53
the universe is
overwhelming evidence
00:27:36.99\00:27:39.71
to believe that we
came from the hand of God.
00:27:39.74\00:27:44.79
Thank you so much
for joining us today.
00:27:44.82\00:27:47.30
I hope you have
enjoyed this program.
00:27:47.33\00:27:49.75
Please write to me, John Carter.
00:27:49.78\00:27:51.57
The address is now
appearing on the screen.
00:27:51.60\00:27:53.73
PO Box 1900, Thousand Oaks.
00:27:53.76\00:27:56.33
And in Australia, it's Terrigal.
00:27:56.36\00:27:58.61
And please write
to Dr. Ross, Dr, Rana
00:27:58.64\00:28:01.89
at Reasons to Believe.
00:28:01.92\00:28:04.89
And remember this, God made you
00:28:04.92\00:28:08.94
and Christ died for you.
00:28:08.98\00:28:10.81
Good bye for now.
00:28:10.84\00:28:12.37