Believe it or
not, we are at war.
00:00:09.73\00:00:12.73
Whose side are you on?
00:00:12.76\00:00:14.92
Next on, "Coming Out."
00:00:14.95\00:00:16.46
Welcome to part
12 of "Coming Out"
00:01:01.34\00:01:03.43
a special series
that deals with big issues
00:01:03.46\00:01:06.13
facing the church, the
world, and our own hearts.
00:01:06.16\00:01:09.44
Our title is called,
"The War Against our Souls."
00:01:09.47\00:01:12.72
We have been
discussing same sex attraction
00:01:12.75\00:01:16.58
and people's
struggles within themselves.
00:01:16.61\00:01:19.53
But now we're
gonna take another step
00:01:19.56\00:01:20.99
and we're gonna
talk about the war
00:01:21.02\00:01:23.04
that is going on
against the family,
00:01:23.07\00:01:25.69
against the
home, against children
00:01:25.72\00:01:28.78
and ultimately, it's against
our own hearts and our souls,
00:01:28.81\00:01:33.70
trying to bring us down
into a very, very dark place.
00:01:33.73\00:01:38.77
I'm here with Mike
Carducci and Pastor Ron Woolsey,
00:01:38.80\00:01:42.50
two of the five
co-founders of "Coming Out."
00:01:42.53\00:01:46.07
And you have
dedicated your lives
00:01:46.10\00:01:47.77
to your God and to the Bible
00:01:47.80\00:01:50.17
and to helping
people to understand
00:01:50.20\00:01:52.23
the issues that
so many are facing.
00:01:52.26\00:01:54.44
Now let me-- before I
ask you my first question,
00:01:54.47\00:01:56.64
let me just kind
of give a background
00:01:56.67\00:01:58.99
that in the last 11 programs,
00:01:59.02\00:02:01.26
we have been talking
as thoughtfully as we can
00:02:01.29\00:02:06.95
about the issue of
same sex attraction
00:02:06.98\00:02:09.44
and how people are, you
know, dealing with this and,
00:02:09.47\00:02:12.56
and the help that is available
for those that are struggling.
00:02:12.59\00:02:16.76
But as we look around,
it sure is pretty clear
00:02:16.79\00:02:21.02
that there is a
segment that I want to stress,
00:02:21.05\00:02:23.84
a segment that doesn't
seem to be struggling anymore,
00:02:23.87\00:02:28.53
they seem to have pretty
much decided where they are at.
00:02:28.56\00:02:32.37
And they are
taking their own stands
00:02:32.40\00:02:35.02
and they have--
there is a segment,
00:02:35.05\00:02:36.71
for a lack of a better word,
00:02:36.74\00:02:37.86
that has become quite militant
in advancing their views.
00:02:37.89\00:02:42.39
So let's talk
about that, tell us,
00:02:42.42\00:02:44.14
just a little bit about
what's going on these days.
00:02:44.17\00:02:47.83
Well, I have a
client, who told me years ago,
00:02:47.86\00:02:50.80
couple years ago, she
was opening up the nursery
00:02:50.83\00:02:53.34
and that she was told that
00:02:53.37\00:02:55.01
if she wanted to
receive government funding,
00:02:55.04\00:02:56.88
that if she puts same
sex parent on the walls
00:02:56.91\00:02:59.52
and taught kids to cross dress,
00:02:59.55\00:03:02.74
letting-- we're talking
about 2 year olds to 5 year olds
00:03:02.77\00:03:05.85
cross dressing,
that she could actually
00:03:05.88\00:03:07.41
receive government funding.
00:03:07.44\00:03:09.16
And what state,
what state was this in?
00:03:09.19\00:03:10.61
Tennessee. Tennessee.
00:03:10.64\00:03:13.52
So what do you think about that?
00:03:13.55\00:03:17.08
She was very upset,
00:03:17.11\00:03:18.85
and according to
her Christian beliefs,
00:03:18.88\00:03:22.61
she didn't feel that was
right and she was refusing the--
00:03:22.64\00:03:24.40
the government money,
00:03:24.43\00:03:25.83
which actually made it
harder for her to do business
00:03:25.86\00:03:27.89
but she was
standing by her conviction
00:03:27.92\00:03:29.90
and she was not going
to-- she wasn't gonna do it.
00:03:29.93\00:03:34.45
She wasn't going to budge.
00:03:34.48\00:03:35.51
She felt it's
time to take a stand,
00:03:35.54\00:03:37.25
money or no money,
00:03:37.28\00:03:38.34
this just isn't,
this isn't right.
00:03:38.37\00:03:39.86
Right. Pastor Ron.
00:03:39.89\00:03:42.62
Yes, Steve, in Luke,
Chapter 17 we read that,
00:03:42.65\00:03:46.92
Jesus warned him, that
as it was in a days of Lot,
00:03:46.95\00:03:49.89
"Thus shall it be in the day
00:03:49.92\00:03:50.97
when the Son of
man is revealed."
00:03:51.00\00:03:53.00
And in other words,
00:03:53.03\00:03:54.15
the evils that were associated
with Sodom and Gomorrah
00:03:54.18\00:03:56.78
would be very
prevalent on a global basis
00:03:56.81\00:04:00.29
just before the coming of Jesus.
00:04:00.32\00:04:02.40
And of course, homosexuality
was one of those evils
00:04:02.43\00:04:06.14
and just in our lifetime,
00:04:06.17\00:04:08.71
we've seen the gay
movement seeking and fighting,
00:04:08.74\00:04:12.65
just we tolerate
it and left alone.
00:04:12.68\00:04:15.49
And they've
advanced to acceptance,
00:04:15.52\00:04:18.25
the level of acceptance,
then to equal rights,
00:04:18.28\00:04:22.60
then to the
celebration of being gay
00:04:22.63\00:04:25.82
with gay pride
months and parades,
00:04:25.85\00:04:29.46
from there it is gone on
to a higher level of promotion
00:04:29.49\00:04:33.67
of homosexuality
through the education system.
00:04:33.70\00:04:38.11
And now beyond that,
they have sought privilege
00:04:38.14\00:04:40.89
through
minority status so that--
00:04:40.92\00:04:43.78
they are looking to become
a special segment of society
00:04:43.81\00:04:47.47
with special privileges.
00:04:47.50\00:04:49.19
And they are
initiating legislation
00:04:49.22\00:04:52.34
through states and through,
00:04:52.37\00:04:54.09
on a national level to promote
this agenda of homosexuality,
00:04:54.12\00:05:00.26
this segment that is very
political and very militant.
00:05:00.29\00:05:04.86
They've now even
become a persecuting power
00:05:04.89\00:05:07.19
and we have examples to show
00:05:07.22\00:05:09.04
that they've gone all
the way from tolerance,
00:05:09.07\00:05:11.62
just wanting tolerance,
to becoming intolerant,
00:05:11.65\00:05:14.61
to becoming the
persecuting power themselves.
00:05:14.64\00:05:17.42
And I think we do
want to make it clear that
00:05:17.45\00:05:18.97
this does not
apply to everybody.
00:05:19.00\00:05:20.39
No, this is, that's
second-- Right, right.
00:05:20.42\00:05:22.56
Sure, I mean as
you were struggling
00:05:22.59\00:05:24.65
and dealing with your
own life and coming out,
00:05:24.68\00:05:27.81
you certainly weren't on that
kind of band wagon, were you?
00:05:27.84\00:05:31.69
I don't think we really
knew what we were caught up in,
00:05:31.72\00:05:34.36
we were in the gay
life and we were kind of
00:05:34.39\00:05:36.83
drafting behind this political
and very aggressive movement,
00:05:36.86\00:05:41.84
not knowing where it was headed.
00:05:41.87\00:05:43.90
You know, I
marched on Washington
00:05:43.93\00:05:45.57
when President
Clinton was elected in office,
00:05:45.60\00:05:48.26
demanding those rights,
and you know, I think that,
00:05:48.29\00:05:51.16
that even good
hearted men and women
00:05:51.19\00:05:53.58
that are in the
homosexual, life style--
00:05:53.61\00:05:56.67
I don't believe
that many of them
00:05:56.70\00:05:58.86
thought of as been militant,
00:05:58.89\00:06:00.36
as really just
demand for equal rights
00:06:00.39\00:06:02.95
and I've certainly
was involved in that
00:06:02.98\00:06:04.98
and I believe that I was
entitled to those rights.
00:06:05.01\00:06:08.16
And we all, we all
have certain rights.
00:06:08.19\00:06:10.10
I mean everybody has. Right.
00:06:10.13\00:06:11.43
You know, the
Declaration of Independence
00:06:11.46\00:06:13.14
that we all have
inalienable rights.
00:06:13.17\00:06:15.09
That's right.
00:06:15.12\00:06:16.22
And we certainly
don't want to deny people
00:06:16.25\00:06:19.75
who don't believe as
we do, their own rights.
00:06:19.78\00:06:22.74
And if someone
chooses to, to be gay,
00:06:22.77\00:06:26.25
to live a gay
lifestyle that's their choice
00:06:26.28\00:06:28.94
and I'm certainly not someone
that would try to force them
00:06:28.97\00:06:32.68
otherwise, you know,
even God, I mean God Himself,
00:06:32.71\00:06:34.92
He gives people
freedom to make a choice.
00:06:34.95\00:06:36.93
But when, when that choice
then starts pushing itself
00:06:36.96\00:06:41.99
toward my kids, you know, I
have a 6 year old little girl
00:06:42.02\00:06:45.76
and a 9 year old little boy
00:06:45.79\00:06:47.59
and you know, I'm
gonna draw a line.
00:06:47.62\00:06:49.70
I mean, I'm a dad and
when someone is pushing
00:06:49.73\00:06:53.84
to educate my children
in things that you know,
00:06:53.87\00:06:58.66
I don't agree with,
00:06:58.69\00:07:00.31
I don't think our
right, you know...
00:07:00.34\00:07:02.57
But you know, Steve--
00:07:02.60\00:07:03.67
It's just a-- it's
moving my fatherhood.
00:07:03.70\00:07:06.07
Right.
00:07:06.10\00:07:07.13
You know, I've got
to protect my kids.
00:07:07.16\00:07:08.49
But I'm glad that
you brought that up
00:07:08.52\00:07:09.66
because I think that
there are a lot of um,
00:07:09.69\00:07:12.63
homosexuals out there
00:07:12.66\00:07:13.70
that don't know that
there's a choice in--
00:07:13.73\00:07:15.20
I certainly didn't
even after I got baptized
00:07:15.23\00:07:17.68
and was walking with God,
00:07:17.71\00:07:18.77
I didn't realize that
there was a choice involved.
00:07:18.80\00:07:21.27
And when I made that choice,
00:07:21.30\00:07:22.77
God still respected
me along that journey
00:07:22.80\00:07:25.28
and if I chose not,
then He respected it.
00:07:25.31\00:07:27.58
And I believe
that we as Christians
00:07:27.61\00:07:28.85
we respect
everyone's right to chose.
00:07:28.88\00:07:31.26
That's right.
00:07:31.29\00:07:32.33
But we also believe
that we have the opportunity,
00:07:32.36\00:07:34.81
because of what
we've experienced
00:07:34.84\00:07:35.98
and what we've gone
through, that we want to give
00:07:36.01\00:07:38.37
other people out
there an option too
00:07:38.40\00:07:40.31
and let them know that
there is an option for you.
00:07:40.34\00:07:42.88
And so we are not trying
to take away anyone's rights
00:07:42.91\00:07:45.94
and I think that the
church has been guilty of that
00:07:45.97\00:07:48.45
but what we're trying
to do is, is to redefined
00:07:48.48\00:07:50.80
and create a safe
place in church culture,
00:07:50.83\00:07:52.84
where people can
come and experience
00:07:52.87\00:07:55.13
the options that are out there
00:07:55.16\00:07:56.64
and not be limited to
just one or the other.
00:07:56.67\00:07:59.13
Yes, and, and we've,
we've talked about that
00:07:59.16\00:08:03.07
but today, now we're
zeroing in on the militant way.
00:08:03.10\00:08:07.04
Right.
00:08:07.07\00:08:08.13
And didn't you have
another quote about the goal--
00:08:08.16\00:08:10.77
Of the militant wing,
when it comes to marriage
00:08:10.80\00:08:13.11
and when it comes to,
you know, even my kids.
00:08:13.14\00:08:16.20
Right, this one is according
to a Daniel Villarreal,
00:08:16.23\00:08:20.54
who's an LGBT
journalist and activist.
00:08:20.57\00:08:22.96
He says, "Recruiting children?
00:08:22.99\00:08:24.64
You bet we are, and
I would like very much
00:08:24.67\00:08:26.78
for many of these
young boys to grow up
00:08:26.81\00:08:29.20
and start having sex with men"
00:08:29.23\00:08:31.30
and I changed the
wording just a little bit but--
00:08:31.33\00:08:33.54
Sure, yeah, but you know,
just think of that language,
00:08:33.57\00:08:35.30
recruiting children?
00:08:35.33\00:08:36.36
You bet we are. Yeah.
00:08:36.39\00:08:37.54
And you know, I would
give my life for my kids
00:08:37.57\00:08:41.22
and you know-- I'm
gonna restrain myself
00:08:41.25\00:08:45.34
from saying what I really,
what my heart is telling me
00:08:45.37\00:08:48.40
after hearing a
statement like that, Pastor Ron.
00:08:48.43\00:08:50.01
We have another
shocking statement
00:08:50.04\00:08:51.84
from a very radical
homosexual activist.
00:08:51.87\00:08:56.05
This lady, a
lesbian, is a journalist,
00:08:56.08\00:08:58.94
her name is Masha Gessen,
she can be seen on YouTube
00:08:58.97\00:09:02.76
and this is very public.
00:09:02.79\00:09:05.22
But she reveals
the ultimate goal
00:09:05.25\00:09:07.36
of the gay agenda,
00:09:07.39\00:09:08.62
this political
militant segment, she says,
00:09:08.65\00:09:13.83
I mean it is the eradication
of marriage altogether
00:09:13.86\00:09:16.48
and this is her quote,
00:09:16.51\00:09:18.30
"fighting for gay
marriage generally involves
00:09:18.33\00:09:20.85
lying about what we're
going to do with marriage
00:09:20.88\00:09:23.12
when we get there,
00:09:23.15\00:09:24.78
the institution of
marriage should not exist.
00:09:24.81\00:09:28.13
We lie that the
institution of marriage
00:09:28.16\00:09:30.22
is not going to
change, that is a lie.
00:09:30.25\00:09:32.70
What we want is not compatible
00:09:32.73\00:09:35.42
with the
institution of marriage."
00:09:35.45\00:09:37.38
And this was on
a public talk show,
00:09:37.41\00:09:40.70
they're not ashamed or timid
00:09:40.73\00:09:44.11
about what their
ultimate goal really is.
00:09:44.14\00:09:47.62
Let's go the Bible. Yeah.
00:09:47.65\00:09:49.19
First, let's talk about
the war and how this issue
00:09:49.22\00:09:52.62
really is a war, and
how it's a personal war.
00:09:52.65\00:09:55.16
Yeah, there's a text that
we've discussed in Peter 1:2
00:09:55.19\00:10:00.29
and I believe verse 9
talks about coming out
00:10:00.32\00:10:03.49
which is really
your motto, your text
00:10:03.52\00:10:05.64
to come out of the darkness
into his marvelous light.
00:10:05.67\00:10:08.90
And then verse 11, Mike,
why don't you read verse 11?
00:10:08.93\00:10:12.75
Because it uses the word war.
00:10:12.78\00:10:14.89
"Dearly beloved, I beseech
you as strangers and pilgrims,
00:10:14.92\00:10:18.88
abstain from fleshly lusts,
which war against the soul"
00:10:18.91\00:10:22.50
"Which was against the
soul", so what is that for say,
00:10:22.53\00:10:25.02
is warring against the soul?
00:10:25.05\00:10:27.15
Fleshy lust?
00:10:27.18\00:10:28.38
Yeah, fleshy lusts, and I
think it's safe to apply that
00:10:28.41\00:10:32.87
to many different kinds of lust.
00:10:32.90\00:10:34.46
Wouldn't you say? Yes.
00:10:34.49\00:10:35.52
I mean it's not one lust,
there's all kinds of lusts,
00:10:35.55\00:10:38.83
but they are you
know, lust from the flesh,
00:10:38.86\00:10:41.40
what the flesh wants to
do, contrary to God's will.
00:10:41.43\00:10:45.92
You know, my own fleshy lusts
are warring against my soul
00:10:45.95\00:10:50.83
and you've dealt with
that, I've dealt with that.
00:10:50.86\00:10:53.61
We're all dealing with that.
00:10:53.64\00:10:54.67
That's right, we are dealing
with that and we have to--
00:10:54.70\00:10:57.01
you know, I've just
come to the conclusion that
00:10:57.04\00:10:59.01
I've got to take a
stand, against my own,
00:10:59.04\00:11:02.58
you know, my own desires.
00:11:02.61\00:11:04.12
If I'm gonna live
a pure, clean life,
00:11:04.15\00:11:06.79
I have to take a
stand, I have to fight back
00:11:06.82\00:11:10.02
against
temptation, against my flesh,
00:11:10.05\00:11:12.92
against things that
would pull me into darkness.
00:11:12.95\00:11:15.91
And this whole issue
of the flesh and lust,
00:11:15.94\00:11:18.27
it uses the word lust too.
00:11:18.30\00:11:19.86
It says fleshy lusts
which war against the soul,
00:11:19.89\00:11:23.70
that you know I, I
believe the devil is using sex
00:11:23.73\00:11:27.80
and other lusts
to, to destroy people.
00:11:27.83\00:11:31.91
And we're in
about-- we're in a war.
00:11:31.94\00:11:34.18
It's very, very serious.
00:11:34.21\00:11:35.69
And what we're seeing in society
00:11:35.72\00:11:38.15
is a reflection of
that war, is it not?
00:11:38.18\00:11:41.56
Yes, absolutely.
00:11:41.59\00:11:43.33
Now in just very
close by here, in Oregon,
00:11:43.36\00:11:47.88
just as here we
had a report of the,
00:11:47.91\00:11:51.11
of an Oregon Christian bakery
00:11:51.14\00:11:53.90
facing hundreds of
thousands of dollars in fines
00:11:53.93\00:11:57.32
after refusing to
make a wedding cake
00:11:57.35\00:11:59.48
for a lesbian couple.
00:11:59.51\00:12:01.51
There was severe backlash
when they took their stand,
00:12:01.54\00:12:04.91
now they're
protest and picketing
00:12:04.94\00:12:07.51
and threats to customers
00:12:07.54\00:12:09.72
and even death
threats to their children.
00:12:09.75\00:12:11.74
Oh, my God.
00:12:11.77\00:12:12.81
Now, this is-- this
is really hate speech.
00:12:12.84\00:12:16.27
When we're
quoting the word of God
00:12:16.30\00:12:17.89
it's not hate
speech, God is love.
00:12:17.92\00:12:20.30
But, but it's a sad state of
affairs to realize that today,
00:12:20.33\00:12:25.94
just quoting the word of God
00:12:25.97\00:12:27.51
can bring down
accusations of hate speech.
00:12:27.54\00:12:31.37
Where as this can go on
and nothing is said about it.
00:12:31.40\00:12:35.01
Where, it is a war. Yeah.
00:12:35.04\00:12:36.82
We, we've battle with
this ourselves all those years
00:12:36.85\00:12:41.02
struggling against
what was going on inside,
00:12:41.05\00:12:43.89
finally giving up
in defeat in that war.
00:12:43.92\00:12:48.32
So we have the
internal battle going on
00:12:48.35\00:12:50.48
but we also have this battle
going on through out society.
00:12:50.51\00:12:54.33
Yeah.
00:12:54.36\00:12:55.82
Wow, what a contact now--
but what you just read about,
00:12:55.85\00:12:58.47
that wasn't in America, right?
00:12:58.50\00:13:00.63
Uh, no, it was in Oregon.
00:13:00.66\00:13:02.54
Oh, in Oregon. Yes.
00:13:02.57\00:13:04.15
Oh, my, yes.
00:13:04.18\00:13:05.53
Yes, we have a
whole string of examples
00:13:05.56\00:13:08.04
but we don't have time
to go through all that.
00:13:08.07\00:13:09.74
Well, let's take a look
at some more Bible verses,
00:13:09.77\00:13:11.70
let's go to
Ephesians, Ephesians 6:1-4,
00:13:11.73\00:13:16.27
these verses have
really spoken to my heart
00:13:16.30\00:13:19.64
concerning this
issue, Mike, you or Pastor--
00:13:19.67\00:13:22.50
Sure. Mike.
00:13:22.53\00:13:23.69
"Children, obey
your parents in the Lord,
00:13:23.72\00:13:25.80
for this is right.
00:13:25.83\00:13:27.46
Honor your father and mother
00:13:27.49\00:13:29.01
which is the first
commandment with promise,
00:13:29.04\00:13:31.90
that it may be well with you
00:13:31.93\00:13:33.67
and that you may
live long on the earth.
00:13:33.70\00:13:36.03
And you, fathers, provoke
not your children to wrath
00:13:36.06\00:13:38.68
but bring them up in the nurture
00:13:38.71\00:13:40.94
and an admonition of the Lord."
00:13:40.97\00:13:43.08
Well, these are powerful verses,
00:13:43.11\00:13:44.50
they've really
spoke to my heart.
00:13:44.53\00:13:45.90
And you know if
you look closely,
00:13:45.93\00:13:46.97
they deal with children,
they deal with parents,
00:13:47.00\00:13:49.25
they deal with the law
of God honoring your father,
00:13:49.28\00:13:53.11
your mother and
they deal with the--
00:13:53.14\00:13:55.37
verse 4 talks about
fathers raising children
00:13:55.40\00:13:59.62
in the nurture,
which is the love--
00:13:59.65\00:14:01.74
And the admonition,
which is the discipline
00:14:01.77\00:14:04.23
of the Lord and
to teach children
00:14:04.26\00:14:08.35
to honor their
parents because this is right.
00:14:08.38\00:14:11.38
And really the
stand that we are taking,
00:14:11.41\00:14:14.02
based on the Bible
is on what's right,
00:14:14.05\00:14:17.41
and I know people question that
00:14:17.44\00:14:18.67
and they say no,
it's-- you're not right.
00:14:18.70\00:14:21.12
But we believe it is
right because the Bible says,
00:14:21.15\00:14:23.89
children are to obey parents,
there's a father and the mother
00:14:23.92\00:14:27.73
and home and the family
00:14:27.76\00:14:29.87
and raising kids in
the family with parents,
00:14:29.90\00:14:33.37
acting the way they
should toward their children,
00:14:33.40\00:14:36.64
this is what's right
and, and are we not in a war
00:14:36.67\00:14:39.65
between what is
right and what is wrong.
00:14:39.68\00:14:41.48
Between righteousness and sin
00:14:41.51\00:14:43.91
and ultimately it's
between God and who else?
00:14:43.94\00:14:47.69
And satan.
00:14:47.72\00:14:48.77
That's right, God and
His former chief officer,
00:14:48.80\00:14:51.96
Satan himself.
00:14:51.99\00:14:55.07
Yes, very much so, I--
00:14:55.10\00:14:58.26
you know in these
last days we're told,
00:14:58.29\00:15:02.97
again looking at Luke 17 that
"as it was in the days of Lot,
00:15:03.00\00:15:08.35
that shall it be in the day
00:15:08.38\00:15:09.41
when the Son of
man is revealed."
00:15:09.44\00:15:11.47
And you know, we look in history
00:15:11.50\00:15:13.47
and we see that
an open acceptance
00:15:13.50\00:15:17.49
and toleration and even
celebration of homosexuality
00:15:17.52\00:15:21.74
signaled the end of
the culture of Greece.
00:15:21.77\00:15:24.60
It did the same
with the culture of Rome
00:15:24.63\00:15:27.26
and what, what I
am observing today,
00:15:27.29\00:15:30.40
what I believe is that
as this is been legislated,
00:15:30.43\00:15:33.99
the redefinition of marriage
00:15:34.02\00:15:36.56
being legislated
around the world,
00:15:36.59\00:15:38.39
to me it is a signal of
the demise of global society
00:15:38.42\00:15:43.19
just before the coming of Jesus.
00:15:43.22\00:15:45.42
And there
certainly was a militant form
00:15:45.45\00:15:50.24
of same sex
attraction within Sodom,
00:15:50.27\00:15:53.53
apart from-- apart
from the issue itself.
00:15:53.56\00:15:55.85
They certainly
was, I mean they--
00:15:55.88\00:15:57.42
they surrounded Lot's house,
00:15:57.45\00:16:00.02
they wanted those two
strangers that had come in,
00:16:00.05\00:16:02.97
they were under Lot's roof,
00:16:03.00\00:16:04.75
they were trying
to bang down the door
00:16:04.78\00:16:07.46
when Lot came
out, they pushed him in
00:16:07.49\00:16:10.53
and again try to
get in and get these men
00:16:10.56\00:16:13.74
and it was a
very, very bad scene
00:16:13.77\00:16:18.13
and I think there's a
verse in Jude, isn't there,
00:16:18.16\00:16:20.36
that really shows what
happened as a result of this.
00:16:20.39\00:16:26.23
Well, that certainly show's us
00:16:26.26\00:16:27.36
how God feels about this issue.
00:16:27.39\00:16:29.54
And so much today that
we hear and see and read
00:16:29.57\00:16:33.16
leaves God's
feelings and emotions
00:16:33.19\00:16:35.41
totally out of the picture.
00:16:35.44\00:16:36.95
And as Christians we
should consider His thoughts
00:16:36.98\00:16:40.35
feelings
emotions and words first,
00:16:40.38\00:16:43.24
and this text clearly reveals
how God feels about this issue.
00:16:43.27\00:16:46.65
And what verse is that?
00:16:46.68\00:16:47.71
Verse 7, Jude, verse 7,
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha,
00:16:47.74\00:16:52.31
and the cities
about them in like manner,
00:16:52.34\00:16:54.66
giving themselves
over to fornication,
00:16:54.69\00:16:56.90
and going after strange flesh,
are set forth for an example."
00:16:56.93\00:17:02.03
In other words, we
can look at them and see
00:17:02.06\00:17:05.00
how God feels and how he
will deal with this eventually.
00:17:05.03\00:17:09.21
"Suffering the
vengeance of eternal fire."
00:17:09.24\00:17:13.53
And my Bible says,
"Going after strange flesh,"
00:17:13.56\00:17:17.87
next to the word
strange there's a two
00:17:17.90\00:17:20.63
taking it to the
marginal reference
00:17:20.66\00:17:22.16
which is other, other flesh.
00:17:22.19\00:17:23.51
Right.
00:17:23.54\00:17:24.57
Which, doesn't
that parallel Romans 1,
00:17:24.60\00:17:26.96
where it talks about,
man burning in their lusts
00:17:26.99\00:17:31.64
for one another and
women going against nature
00:17:31.67\00:17:35.58
and burning in their
lusts for each other.
00:17:35.61\00:17:38.84
This is not, you
know, God's plan.
00:17:38.87\00:17:41.59
As we've studied in Genesis
00:17:41.62\00:17:43.97
is for a man to
be with the woman
00:17:44.00\00:17:47.55
and a woman to be
with a man in marriage
00:17:47.58\00:17:49.59
and then you raise, you have
children in this environment,
00:17:49.62\00:17:53.27
that's God's plan.
00:17:53.30\00:17:54.61
You know, you know,
in a mixed up world,
00:17:54.64\00:17:57.74
we often get off
track and God accepts us
00:17:57.77\00:17:59.98
and works with us, where we are.
00:18:00.01\00:18:01.09
Amen. But that's
still God's plan.
00:18:01.12\00:18:03.89
Right.
00:18:03.92\00:18:04.95
And so, you
know, I don't know how,
00:18:04.98\00:18:06.01
when you look at what
happened in Sodom, Genesis 19,
00:18:06.04\00:18:08.28
and you look at this verse,
00:18:08.31\00:18:09.34
that they not only gave
themselves over to fornication
00:18:09.37\00:18:11.88
but they also went
after strange flesh.
00:18:11.91\00:18:14.22
It show's that was
part of the problem in Sodom
00:18:14.25\00:18:17.76
and the consequence was what?
00:18:17.79\00:18:19.85
What was the consequence?
00:18:19.88\00:18:21.41
Well, God revealed how he felt
00:18:21.44\00:18:23.86
and he dealt with
it with judgments.
00:18:23.89\00:18:25.80
They ended up suffering
the vengeance of eternal fire,
00:18:25.83\00:18:31.14
destruction.
00:18:31.17\00:18:32.25
That's right and
like He mentioned
00:18:32.28\00:18:34.58
in Luke 17: 28-30,
00:18:34.61\00:18:39.91
"Jesus said, 'as it
was in the days of Lot.'
00:18:39.94\00:18:45.25
" That's the way it will
be, right before he comes.
00:18:45.28\00:18:49.23
So are we witnessing
another sign of the times?
00:18:49.26\00:18:53.70
Right. Among many signs.
00:18:53.73\00:18:55.57
Right, you know,
another sign would be
00:18:55.60\00:18:57.37
this quote from
00:18:57.40\00:18:58.43
Michelangelo Signorile, it says,
00:18:58.46\00:19:00.40
"a middle ground might be
to fight for same-sex marriage
00:19:00.43\00:19:03.52
and its benefits
and then, once granted,
00:19:03.55\00:19:06.11
redefine the institution
of marriage completely,
00:19:06.14\00:19:08.80
to demand the right to marry
00:19:08.83\00:19:10.24
not as a way of adhering
to society's moral codes
00:19:10.27\00:19:13.31
but rather to debunk a myth
00:19:13.34\00:19:14.97
and radically alter
an archaic institution.
00:19:15.00\00:19:17.88
It is also a
chance to wholly transform
00:19:17.91\00:19:20.15
the definition of
family in American culture."
00:19:20.18\00:19:23.21
And again, we see that
these things that are coming
00:19:23.24\00:19:26.05
are the fulfillment
of what we're reading
00:19:26.08\00:19:28.04
in Jude and in Luke.
00:19:28.07\00:19:29.83
And who was that
again that said that?
00:19:29.86\00:19:31.47
Michelangelo
Signorile. And who is he?
00:19:31.50\00:19:34.04
Gay activist, editor-at-large
for the Gay Voices
00:19:34.07\00:19:36.46
Vertical of the Huffington Post.
00:19:36.49\00:19:39.62
And so-- I mean that man
00:19:39.65\00:19:42.23
and the segment
that he represents
00:19:42.26\00:19:44.67
they are definitely
at war with marriage.
00:19:44.70\00:19:46.57
What does he say again?
00:19:46.60\00:19:47.64
He wants to eliminate marriage--
00:19:47.67\00:19:49.90
To wholly transform
the definition of family,
00:19:49.93\00:19:52.52
but yes, to rather debunk a myth
00:19:52.55\00:19:54.49
and radically alter
an archaic institution.
00:19:54.52\00:19:56.66
So marriage is
considered a myth,
00:19:56.69\00:19:58.19
it's considered an
archaic institution
00:19:58.22\00:20:00.17
that needs to be abolished.
00:20:00.20\00:20:02.13
And there is group out
there and that's what they're,
00:20:02.16\00:20:04.23
that's what they are seeking.
00:20:04.26\00:20:05.57
That is affirmation of what
Masha Gessen was saying also,
00:20:05.60\00:20:10.52
it's another voice
saying the same thing.
00:20:10.55\00:20:12.09
Saying the same thing.
00:20:12.12\00:20:13.21
And know with marriage being
created in the Garden of Eden,
00:20:13.24\00:20:16.61
one of the two institutions
of the Garden of Eden
00:20:16.64\00:20:19.02
is obvious that
from the beginning
00:20:19.05\00:20:20.74
Satan has hated that marriage
00:20:20.77\00:20:23.22
because if can disrupt
that union and corrupt it
00:20:23.25\00:20:27.84
then what he does, he
defaces the very image of God
00:20:27.87\00:20:32.12
to the children that
are born into this world.
00:20:32.15\00:20:35.34
They don't see Him as
clearly as they would see
00:20:35.37\00:20:39.07
in a God ordained
marriage with father and mother.
00:20:39.10\00:20:42.64
To get confused. Yes.
00:20:42.67\00:20:44.13
And the Bible
says in Corinthians
00:20:44.16\00:20:45.97
that God is not the
author of confusion,
00:20:46.00\00:20:49.24
He's not the source of this,
He's plans is a plan of peace.
00:20:49.27\00:20:52.27
Well, let's go
to one other passage
00:20:52.30\00:20:54.70
which to me as
where we're leading
00:20:54.73\00:20:56.37
with all of this
is Revelation 12:17.
00:20:56.40\00:21:01.23
This is the last
book of the Bible,
00:21:01.26\00:21:03.59
it's an apocalyptic book,
00:21:03.62\00:21:04.99
it deals with the
apocalyptic issues
00:21:05.02\00:21:07.04
and we believe that there
is an apocalyptic dimension
00:21:07.07\00:21:10.74
to this struggle
that we're talking about
00:21:10.77\00:21:14.31
and where dealing
with and addressing.
00:21:14.34\00:21:17.48
Who would like to read
chapter, Revelation 12:17?
00:21:17.51\00:21:23.14
"And the dragon was
wroth with the woman,
00:21:23.17\00:21:25.65
and went to make war
with the remnant of her seed,
00:21:25.68\00:21:28.48
which keep the
commandments of God,
00:21:28.51\00:21:30.55
and have the
testimony of Jesus Christ."
00:21:30.58\00:21:33.35
Right, powerful text,
00:21:33.38\00:21:34.49
that text has just
burned into my soul.
00:21:34.52\00:21:36.71
It's a verse in the
last book of the Bible
00:21:36.74\00:21:38.59
that describes a war,
00:21:38.62\00:21:40.19
and again, this
fits our title, "War".
00:21:40.22\00:21:42.37
The war against our souls
and it says that the dragon,
00:21:42.40\00:21:45.01
who represents the
devil, Satan, Lucifer gone bad,
00:21:45.04\00:21:49.31
that he is angry with the woman,
00:21:49.34\00:21:52.52
he hates the woman,
00:21:52.55\00:21:53.98
which represents God's
people and he went to make war
00:21:54.01\00:21:56.95
with the remnant, God's
gonna have a final group,
00:21:56.98\00:21:59.75
the remnant of her seed
and their characteristics are,
00:21:59.78\00:22:03.35
they keep the
commandments of God
00:22:03.38\00:22:05.66
and they have the
testimony of Jesus Christ.
00:22:05.69\00:22:08.33
I have here
solid tables of stone,
00:22:08.36\00:22:13.09
sometimes I-- I
carry in my seminars
00:22:13.12\00:22:16.25
when I go around the
country and hold meetings.
00:22:16.28\00:22:19.33
And this is table
number two of the big 10,
00:22:19.36\00:22:24.06
which God wrote with
his own finger on stone.
00:22:24.09\00:22:26.49
And if you look at these
commandment number five says,
00:22:26.52\00:22:30.51
honor your
father and your mother.
00:22:30.54\00:22:33.69
That shows God's
plan for the home,
00:22:33.72\00:22:36.14
is it there be a
father, there be a mother
00:22:36.17\00:22:38.35
and that children are commanded
00:22:38.38\00:22:40.00
to honor their
fathers and their mothers
00:22:40.03\00:22:42.03
because this is what's best.
00:22:42.06\00:22:43.56
This is what makes
for, for respect and love
00:22:43.59\00:22:47.69
and good home, where kids can
grow up in that kind of home.
00:22:47.72\00:22:51.25
So there's
commandment number five,
00:22:51.28\00:22:53.07
number six which we
haven't really talked about
00:22:53.10\00:22:56.36
but we all have
convictions about this.
00:22:56.39\00:22:58.98
Number six says, "Do
not kill or do not murder",
00:22:59.01\00:23:02.73
and I mean the devil
today is attacking number five.
00:23:02.76\00:23:06.25
The dragon, the devil,
working through society
00:23:06.28\00:23:09.11
is attacking marriage,
00:23:09.14\00:23:10.81
he's attacking the
commandment about killing and--
00:23:10.84\00:23:15.18
you know we're not
gonna spend much time on this
00:23:15.21\00:23:16.80
but we all agree
that killing babies
00:23:16.83\00:23:20.29
before they're born
is just a nightmare.
00:23:20.32\00:23:24.50
And satan-- the Bible says,
satan is attacking God's law,
00:23:24.53\00:23:28.30
he's attacking number
five, he's attacking number six,
00:23:28.33\00:23:30.51
number seven, "you
shall not commit adultery",
00:23:30.54\00:23:32.88
deals with marriage
and with the sexual purity
00:23:32.91\00:23:36.87
in the marriage relationship.
00:23:36.90\00:23:38.22
And Satan is
attacking that one and then I--
00:23:38.25\00:23:40.40
you know I can't help
this morning, as I woke up,
00:23:40.43\00:23:42.16
I got on my knees
and I started praying.
00:23:42.19\00:23:43.59
And I-- my mind went to
commandment number nine,
00:23:43.62\00:23:47.13
which says, "you
shall not bear false witness
00:23:47.16\00:23:49.48
against your neighbor."
00:23:49.51\00:23:51.20
And the Bible says
in Romans 13:10, that,
00:23:51.23\00:23:55.73
"love is the
fulfilling of the law",
00:23:55.76\00:23:57.94
that God's law
really is the law of love.
00:23:57.97\00:23:59.82
It's for our best, not interest,
00:23:59.85\00:24:02.18
it's for the good of
society, for the good homes,
00:24:02.21\00:24:04.27
children, marriages.
00:24:04.30\00:24:05.94
And it's a fact that
those who take a stand
00:24:05.97\00:24:12.57
for moral principles
based on the law of God,
00:24:12.60\00:24:16.06
that they are often attacked.
00:24:16.09\00:24:19.40
Now I know that people can
take these stands in a bad way
00:24:19.43\00:24:25.05
but even those who take
a stand in the right way,
00:24:25.08\00:24:27.71
in a loving way,
standing up for the law of God
00:24:27.74\00:24:29.76
and for moral principles,
many times people will just
00:24:29.79\00:24:32.97
automatically
accused us of hate speech.
00:24:33.00\00:24:36.82
Because we're
focusing on these principles
00:24:36.85\00:24:40.92
and in my mind when I
look at that ninth commandment,
00:24:40.95\00:24:43.12
"don't bare false witness",
I mean you've got number five,
00:24:43.15\00:24:46.46
the home, you got
number six, don't murder.
00:24:46.49\00:24:48.66
You got number seven,
sexual purity in marriage.
00:24:48.69\00:24:51.84
And you got number nine
don't bare false witness.
00:24:51.87\00:24:54.25
And it seems to me
that it was a lot of people
00:24:54.28\00:24:56.29
that are gonna bear
false witness against us
00:24:56.32\00:24:58.54
because we are
standing up for the law of God.
00:24:58.57\00:25:01.42
But God is behind His law,
He wrote these commandments,
00:25:01.45\00:25:06.67
with his own finger on stone
and it is time for God's people
00:25:06.70\00:25:13.43
to take a stand, for
men of God to stand up,
00:25:13.46\00:25:17.21
for women of God to
stand up for his principles,
00:25:17.24\00:25:20.67
which are really
loving principles
00:25:20.70\00:25:23.38
for the best interest of all.
00:25:23.41\00:25:26.92
Now I think it is true,
Steve, a sign of the times,
00:25:26.95\00:25:30.31
that in quoting the word of God,
00:25:30.34\00:25:32.42
you are accused of hate
speech and I know Mike has that,
00:25:32.45\00:25:35.32
that quote I was
referring to earlier
00:25:35.35\00:25:37.10
and he has it right here.
00:25:37.13\00:25:38.16
Want me to read it?
00:25:38.19\00:25:39.26
About-- yes, just
quoting the word of God,
00:25:39.29\00:25:41.94
you are accused of
violent and hateful speech.
00:25:41.97\00:25:44.84
According to Phil
Robertson, he says,
00:25:44.87\00:25:46.96
"Our culture has
accepted two huge lies.
00:25:46.99\00:25:49.64
The first is
that if you disagree
00:25:49.67\00:25:51.43
with somebody's lifestyle
that you must fear or hate them.
00:25:51.46\00:25:54.86
The second lie is that
to love someone means that
00:25:54.89\00:25:57.29
you must agree with everything
that they believe or do.
00:25:57.32\00:26:00.40
Both are nonsense", he says.
00:26:00.43\00:26:02.13
"You don't have to
compromise convictions
00:26:02.16\00:26:04.52
to be compassionate."
00:26:04.55\00:26:06.62
Powerful quote.
00:26:06.65\00:26:07.90
Yeah, well, and we don't--
we got to hold our convictions,
00:26:07.93\00:26:11.79
we've got to be compassionate
00:26:11.82\00:26:13.58
but we have to
stand for principle.
00:26:13.61\00:26:15.05
We have to stand
up for what's right.
00:26:15.08\00:26:16.54
What's that stake
is the home, marriage,
00:26:16.57\00:26:19.32
children and
ultimately the word of God,
00:26:19.35\00:26:21.63
the law of God and God's truth,
00:26:21.66\00:26:23.82
and you know something
that has impressed me so deeply
00:26:23.85\00:26:26.21
is that the finger
that wrote the law,
00:26:26.24\00:26:30.39
was on a hand, the
new testament says,
00:26:30.42\00:26:32.92
that was nailed to across.
00:26:32.95\00:26:35.56
Nailed to cross for our sins,
Jesus Christ died on the cross
00:26:35.59\00:26:40.02
because we've broken the law.
00:26:40.05\00:26:41.46
He died to save us, to
cleanse us and to purify us.
00:26:41.49\00:26:45.33
Amen.
00:26:45.36\00:26:46.40
And to prepare us
for a happy heaven.
00:26:46.43\00:26:49.68
During the civil
war Abraham Lincoln,
00:26:49.71\00:26:51.57
was once asked, he
said, he was asked,
00:26:51.60\00:26:54.62
"Brother Lincoln, in
this fight against slavery,
00:26:54.65\00:26:57.65
do you think that
God is on our side?"
00:26:57.68\00:27:00.31
and his response
was, 'I'm not so concerned
00:27:00.34\00:27:02.71
whether God is
on our side or not.
00:27:02.74\00:27:04.88
But the big question
is, are we on his side?"
00:27:04.91\00:27:08.01
Amen.
00:27:08.04\00:27:09.33
We are in a war
and may God help you,
00:27:09.36\00:27:11.75
may He help me
to stand up for God
00:27:11.78\00:27:14.91
and be on His
side in this battle.
00:27:14.94\00:27:18.88
If you would like
to order the 13 part,
00:27:18.91\00:27:20.81
'Coming Out" series
for $34.95 plus shipping,
00:27:20.84\00:27:23.88
call 1-800-782-4253.
00:27:23.91\00:27:27.10
Or write to White
Horse Media, PO box 1139,
00:27:27.13\00:27:29.95
Newport, Washington, 99156.
00:27:29.98\00:27:32.74
Pastor Ron Woolsey,
00:27:32.77\00:27:34.06
Dwayne Blakely and Mike Carducci
00:27:34.09\00:27:35.51
are each available to
conduct a seminar in your area.
00:27:35.54\00:27:38.69
To schedule a
speaking engagement,
00:27:38.72\00:27:40.20
contact Coming Out ministries
by calling 360-936-8514,
00:27:40.23\00:27:45.48
or visit
Comingoutministries.org.
00:27:45.51\00:27:48.09