Is salvation by sex?
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We have
something to say about that
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in this addition of Coming Out.
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Welcome to part 10
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of the serious called Coming Out
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that is dealing with the S word.
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The word that lot of
people don't want to talk about
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but on the other hand,
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a whole lot of
people are talking about it,
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and experiencing it,
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and it's the S-E-X
word, the word is sex.
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And we are here
to discuss a concept
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called Salvation by Sex?
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Is this possible or
what does this mean?
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And I'm here with
two of the co-founders,
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there are
actually five co-founders.
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We've got two here
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of a ministry called Coming Out,
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that is addressing these
issues and trying to bring
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clarification
according to the Bible.
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And according to
the biblical message
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of the grace of Jesus
Christ, dealing with issues
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that really just
need to be talked about.
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Pastor Ron
Woolsey and Wayne Blakely,
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this is program 10.
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We've been
through a lot together
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and we've got more to com.
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So thank you for
again joining us here
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in Priest River,
Idaho at the headquarters
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of the White Horse
Media to discuss this topic.
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My first question to you is,
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why do you think that sex
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has become so
important to humanity?
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Personally I think that
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it add to some
level of confirmation.
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Church wise I see it,
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I immediately goes in my
mind to prove of conversion.
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And so if you have sex
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or you have
marriage that's taken place,
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that says to someone today
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that I'm no longer
gay and that I'm straight.
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Like that would be the focus.
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Okay, and then you've got
more to say about that I'm sure.
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Pastor Ron, why do you think
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sex has become so
important to humans today?
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Well, sex is being
very much marketed.
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We've heard the
term that sex sales.
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It is used to in advertising
to sell all kinds of products.
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It's used so heavily
in the media, movies today
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if they don't
have foul language,
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and violence and sex,
they don't go anywhere.
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So our society is just bombarded
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with this idea
of over sexuality,
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and children are
getting it from--
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well, actually
from kindergarten out
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there being
inundated through the media
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and outside sources
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to where they start
thinking about this long before
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they're ever really
equipped to deal with it.
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You know, I'll add
my opinion on to the--
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on the question I
think, I think sex is important
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or has become really
important, or is important,
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because it's
part of our make up.
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You know, we have feelings,
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we have desires,
something that originally
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God put in human
beings sexuality.
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It is a part of us
but has it become--
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has it become too
important to human beings today
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as if in overblown
so then it becomes--
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it become bigger
than it really is.
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Can I add just a
little bit of quicken--
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Sure. Of course.
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Is that I think we've
got the focus wrong in that,
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the sex was never
meant to be an orientation,
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that sex in
Genesis from God tells us
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it was a gift between
one man and one women.
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And many of us have
come to see as sex as a right
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rather than that gift.
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Okay, we know that
it wasn't original plan,
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but it's not-- it's
not the some total of life.
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I see now keep
some people I mean,
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we just think sex, we live sex,
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we can't get sex
out of our minds.
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When I say we, I'm
referring to general,
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many people and that's
certainly can't be right.
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You know, it's become
something that, that defines us
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and, Wayne, I know
that you have a special,
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special
burdened about this topic
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because of what
has happened to you,
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you've come out of
the homosexual lifestyle,
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a gay lifestyle you,
but you're not married.
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Right.
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Pastor Ron is
married, he was married
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and now that was before
and now you're married again.
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And I think you
know, you can testify
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or just share your
own feelings about what,
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you know, how you've made,
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you've been made to feel
because you're not married yet.
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Just tell us about that.
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Right, and may who
knows may never be.
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I would never diminish
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what has happened
to Ron, or for Ron,
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I think God gifted
a women in Ron's life
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and I praise God
that God has done now.
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But I also see
throughout the word of God
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and through my own
genuine conversion that
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so far in my
life God hasn't placed
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before me an erotic
desire for a female.
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I don't think that my salvation
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is based on having
the right kind of sex
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with the right kind of person
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or with the
right gendered person.
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But where I go
and I speak today,
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I am in fact even
before I go to speak,
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there will be pastors
and people that will ask,
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do you have a girlfriend?
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Are you married now?
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If the answer is no, right,
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if the answer is no,
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then you must be clinging
to something in your past.
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You're not really truly redeemed
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and it invalidates me,
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and so I'm-- you
know, having been,
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if you look back in gay culture,
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you'll find
that most individuals
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who are gay or hypersensitive
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and a little bit at that
has continued to follow me.
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Ron, stop smiling so much
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and so when I get that
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it's kind of a
knee-jerk reaction,
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because again it's that
constant invalidation to say,
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you're not redeemed,
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when I know with all my heart
that Jesus has accepted me,
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and it's not based on the
kind of sex that I'm having.
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But it's on the fact
that I believe in Jesus Christ
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and my focus is on
Jesus and not on sex.
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And this is really--
this is an important issue
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that's why we're
talking about it.
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Especially to those who have had
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or have same sex attractions,
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you know, men for
men, women for women.
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You know, it could be
a real burdened on them
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to believe if
they come to the Lord.
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If they become Christians,
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if they give their lives to
God and want help and wholeness
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that they have this impression
that I'm not there yet.
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I haven't arrived
yet. I'm not at peace yet.
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I don't have real
acceptance with God yet
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until if woman's
attracted to woman
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until she just
falls head over heels
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for a man or vice versa.
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And so I think, you know,
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a lot of people in the community
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that are
struggling with these issues,
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you know, we need
some clarifications
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and clarity on this two, right,
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that's why we're
talking about this that
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your identity and
your relationship with God
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is not defined
primarily by your attraction
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to either the same sex.
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We still have the
temptations or opposite sex,
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you know, there is something,
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there is
something bigger than that,
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that we can find our identity in
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which we'll talk about not only
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it's not something, it's someone
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but we'll zero
in a little while.
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Ron, I could see you
wanting to say something else.
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In my situation,
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I grew up being
attracted to the same gender,
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ever since I could
remember and it really goes back
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to being molested
when I was a child.
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But I grew up and I had, I dated
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and I had
girlfriends and all of that.
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When I was in
college and I was so troubled
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and so burdened with
these tendencies and desires.
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I really came to the conclusion
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that if I were married,
it would take care of it.
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I mean the subject
is salvation by sex,
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and I really saw
that if just get married
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that will satisfy my sex
drive or being over sexed
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to whatever is
going on in my mind.
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And that'll shift you
from one to the other,
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from the desire for a
man to a desire for a women
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and everything will be fine.
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I just thought that
being able to have sex
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in harmony with the word of God,
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and with the blessing of Jesus
would take care of everything.
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Steve, it was a
terrible mistake,
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I mean I married
a wonderful woman
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who is a Christian,
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and wanted to be
a missionary's wife
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and all of that but it was soon
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after I was
married that I realized,
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I made a terrible mistake
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that marriage was not
the solution to my problem.
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Right.
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It was years later,
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that I've discovered
that Jesus was the solution.
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That's right, and also
getting out of the marriage
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was not the solution to
your problem neither really.
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And, you know it
to me, it's tragic
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when I watched certain
programs or read certain things
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and people that I know
or that I become acquainted
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with that they
have left their spouses,
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they've left their children,
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they've violated
their marriage vows,
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that they brought
unconceivable pain
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and damage so that they could,
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you know go out
and find themselves
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and find their identity
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through that fulfillment
of an attraction to either,
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you know, with a
man, another woman
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or with a man or another man
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or a woman leaving her husband
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because she wants to
be with another women.
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You know the
whole thing is just--
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it's just tragic
and it's resulting
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in so much, so much pain.
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You know, Satan,
just rejoices over that
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because his whole
purpose is to cause pain.
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And I think one of
the sure indications
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to me that this is
a sin issue is that
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it causes people so much pain.
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You know, God's
way causes no one pain,
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but if you're
hurting you parents,
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and you're hurting your wife,
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and you're hurting your children
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and you're hurting other people.
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Isn't that an indication
that, that sin in involved?
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That's right.
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The missing element
is clearly to me today
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is intimacy with Jesus Christ.
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You see if--
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that's missing, then
everything gets all out of wag.
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And we're gonna zero in on that,
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like a train before we've done.
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But I want to go back to--
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When you mention the name Satan,
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and when you said that it
just triggered in my mind,
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the thought that, you know,
00:11:44.55\00:11:45.79
Satan is an angel,
he's a fallen angel.
00:11:45.82\00:11:49.09
And as far as we
know, he was not created
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with the capacity to procreate.
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And I, you know, I
have an opinion on that,
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that one of the reasons
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why Satan hates
humanity so much.
00:11:59.73\00:12:03.01
And wants that mess us up
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is because he doesn't
have that original capacity
00:12:04.81\00:12:08.75
so he looks at
men, he looks at women,
00:12:08.78\00:12:11.03
and he just
hates us, he hates God.
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And he wants to
mess everything up,
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bring all this
confusion makes sex,
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you know, so important,
00:12:16.14\00:12:17.52
some people would
think of salvation by sex.
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Some people think that through,
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through sex
they're gonna be fulfilled.
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And like you mentioned the media
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and all this misunderstandings,
it's just all over the place,
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and it's because the
devil hates humanity.
00:12:27.51\00:12:30.47
And he's trying
to mess us up on sex.
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Yeah, I think he looks
at-- in fact somebody came to me
00:12:32.46\00:12:34.92
after presentation of mine said,
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why do you think that
Satan has such a heyday
00:12:36.44\00:12:38.83
with the sex thing?
00:12:38.86\00:12:39.99
And I said, I don't know
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'cause he's
dealing with our feelings,
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and they said, yeah, but
that and a whole lot more.
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He doesn't have the
capability of doing that himself
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so he pushes the sex
button, and he watches rape,
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he watches child molestation,
he watches the counterfeit
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of God's union of
a man and a woman.
00:12:54.66\00:12:56.43
He pushes all these
buttons based on sex.
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Do you think he has a
problem with pornography?
00:12:59.63\00:13:03.12
In other words,
00:13:03.15\00:13:04.22
he enjoys
watching the violation--
00:13:04.25\00:13:07.27
He likes initiating that
problem, that's for sure.
00:13:07.30\00:13:10.37
And there's all, you
know, we have a whole,
00:13:10.40\00:13:11.69
we have a sex, we have a world
00:13:11.72\00:13:14.36
that is mixed up and
often addicted to sex.
00:13:14.39\00:13:17.59
Now I want to-- we got so
much time I want to move on.
00:13:17.62\00:13:20.38
Reparative therapy
is a term or a phrase
00:13:20.41\00:13:24.77
that I've heard
a number of times,
00:13:24.80\00:13:27.14
and I think it
ties in with this topic.
00:13:27.17\00:13:29.23
So explain what is it
and what's wrong with it?
00:13:29.26\00:13:33.03
To me the focus
on reparative therapy
00:13:33.06\00:13:35.64
is the wrong place.
00:13:35.67\00:13:36.73
Okay, what is it?
What is reparative therapy?
00:13:36.76\00:13:37.81
Reparative therapy says
that we can take a gay person
00:13:37.84\00:13:41.29
and through the
course of therapy,
00:13:41.32\00:13:42.93
we can change their focus
00:13:42.96\00:13:44.66
and help them to
become heterosexual.
00:13:44.69\00:13:46.41
Okay.
00:13:46.44\00:13:47.47
In Reparative therapy,
in most reparative therapies
00:13:47.50\00:13:50.75
there is the missing
element of Jesus Christ.
00:13:50.78\00:13:52.95
So now the
focus is not on Jesus,
00:13:52.98\00:13:55.47
but it's on the
type of sex we're having.
00:13:55.50\00:13:57.81
And so if you are being
called or someone's telling you
00:13:57.84\00:14:02.81
that they want
you to become normal,
00:14:02.84\00:14:04.50
so you go to a
reparative therapist
00:14:04.53\00:14:07.75
and they promise
that you'll change.
00:14:07.78\00:14:09.78
And so you keep going through,
00:14:09.81\00:14:10.89
and there is some
really bizarre things
00:14:10.92\00:14:12.24
that they'll have you do
00:14:12.27\00:14:13.94
that we don't
have time to go into,
00:14:13.97\00:14:16.15
but it is to help
you lose your attraction
00:14:16.18\00:14:18.56
to the same gender and
to engage with the intimacy
00:14:18.59\00:14:21.68
between a man and a woman,
00:14:21.71\00:14:23.46
and then hopefully by the end
00:14:23.49\00:14:24.68
of the course of
treatment, you'll be straight.
00:14:24.71\00:14:27.02
If you fail then
what's your recourse?
00:14:27.05\00:14:30.04
Is you either like you fail
00:14:30.07\00:14:32.16
because you don't think
you are good enough person.
00:14:32.19\00:14:34.12
You end up committing suicide
00:14:34.15\00:14:35.74
or you return to
the gay community
00:14:35.77\00:14:37.81
and you mean
never have the desire
00:14:37.84\00:14:39.45
to come out of the
gay community again
00:14:39.48\00:14:41.06
'cause you're
sure you can't end up
00:14:41.09\00:14:43.16
having sex with the woman.
00:14:43.19\00:14:45.27
And so again it removes
the focus of Jesus Christ.
00:14:45.30\00:14:50.38
Pastor Ron?
00:14:50.41\00:14:52.25
Yes, yeah, I agree with that.
00:14:52.28\00:14:56.01
And he mentioned the
fact that some of these
00:14:56.04\00:14:59.34
people that have tried it
00:14:59.37\00:15:00.54
and failed, they commit suicide
and you know in the ministry
00:15:00.57\00:15:05.66
that we have
that's one of the charges
00:15:05.69\00:15:08.60
that we keep
hearing that your message
00:15:08.63\00:15:11.20
will cause
people to commit suicide
00:15:11.23\00:15:13.15
because they can't
do what you're doing,
00:15:13.18\00:15:15.62
you are an exception.
00:15:15.65\00:15:17.70
Of course, I would say
every Christian should feel
00:15:17.73\00:15:20.47
that they are an exception.
00:15:20.50\00:15:22.41
We're an exception to
the rule when we're redeemed,
00:15:22.44\00:15:25.30
but we have to
understand too that
00:15:25.33\00:15:27.91
suicide is the high incidence
among the gay community,
00:15:27.94\00:15:32.62
with or without
reparative therapy.
00:15:32.65\00:15:34.67
And I don't think we can
blame reparative therapy,
00:15:34.70\00:15:37.86
and I don't think--
00:15:37.89\00:15:39.43
there again it's the
blame game, isn't it?
00:15:39.46\00:15:41.83
Suicide's a problem all across.
00:15:41.86\00:15:42.94
People of all walks
of life commits suicide.
00:15:42.97\00:15:45.91
And I think that takes the focus
00:15:45.94\00:15:47.47
of the purpose of the gospel,
00:15:47.50\00:15:50.18
when we start blaming
suicide on preaching the gospel.
00:15:50.21\00:15:54.88
So reparative therapy is
a method, a worldly method
00:15:54.91\00:15:59.38
of trying to make
a homosexual person
00:15:59.41\00:16:01.37
heterosexual or lesbian,
00:16:01.40\00:16:03.20
someone that likes boys
and so often it doesn't work.
00:16:03.23\00:16:08.16
And so but again
we have the premise,
00:16:08.19\00:16:12.10
you know,
salvation by sex that if you,
00:16:12.13\00:16:13.96
if you change your sex
00:16:13.99\00:16:16.14
then you're
"saved" or you're normal,
00:16:16.17\00:16:20.06
or you are the way you're
supposed to be through sex.
00:16:20.09\00:16:24.07
Yeah.
00:16:24.10\00:16:25.13
And yet still you
know, to me it isn't an again
00:16:25.16\00:16:27.37
an overemphasis is on sex and--
00:16:27.40\00:16:31.01
It's not necessarily
00:16:31.04\00:16:32.65
a worldly
program, I mean there are--
00:16:32.68\00:16:34.45
It's in the churches too.
00:16:34.48\00:16:35.51
There are Christians
involved in this too.
00:16:35.54\00:16:37.42
You know I read, I just
want one quick second then,
00:16:37.45\00:16:40.04
I read Alan Chambers'
book Leaving Homosexuality
00:16:40.07\00:16:43.91
when he was the president
of Exodus International
00:16:43.94\00:16:46.25
and he addressed this.
00:16:46.28\00:16:47.63
And it was a very
powerful point that he made
00:16:47.66\00:16:49.59
that for him as a
former homosexual,
00:16:49.62\00:16:54.64
he said, he had to
really get it straight
00:16:54.67\00:16:58.07
and the message was that
00:16:58.10\00:17:00.32
God's primary
calling on his life
00:17:00.35\00:17:03.71
was not to change
him from a homosexual
00:17:03.74\00:17:07.13
into a
heterosexual or at least not a,
00:17:07.16\00:17:09.46
you know and
obviously he wasn't at that time
00:17:09.49\00:17:11.77
when he wrote the book
of practicing homosexual.
00:17:11.80\00:17:13.58
But God's goal
was not to make him
00:17:13.61\00:17:16.80
into a heterosexual
00:17:16.83\00:17:17.99
but it was to
bring him to holiness.
00:17:18.02\00:17:21.02
Exactly.
00:17:21.05\00:17:22.08
It's not from homosexuality
to heterosexuality,
00:17:22.11\00:17:25.29
primarily it is to holiness
00:17:25.32\00:17:28.87
which is really God's
call for married, single,
00:17:28.90\00:17:34.07
for anybody is to leave sin
00:17:34.10\00:17:36.78
behind us, leave sin behind us.
00:17:36.81\00:17:40.01
Give our lives to God and
there's a verse in 1 Peter
00:17:40.04\00:17:44.09
that says God he says
00:17:44.12\00:17:46.02
"That I have
called you to be holy,
00:17:46.05\00:17:48.99
be holy for I am holy,
00:17:49.02\00:17:50.95
that's my calling on your life".
00:17:50.98\00:17:52.36
Right.
00:17:52.39\00:17:53.55
That was the exact
point I was going to make.
00:17:53.58\00:17:54.61
You can say that.
00:17:54.64\00:17:55.99
Yeah, when I share today,
00:17:56.02\00:17:57.68
I-- immediately I want
to help people understand
00:17:57.71\00:18:01.74
the opposite of homosexuality
is not so much heterosexuality.
00:18:01.77\00:18:05.50
As it is holding us
or that been the opposite
00:18:05.53\00:18:07.61
of any sin or sin temptation.
00:18:07.64\00:18:09.76
Let's take a look
at a Bible verse up.
00:18:09.79\00:18:11.61
Pastor Ron, you
mentioned earlier
00:18:11.64\00:18:13.42
that you found a
verse in Luke 17:19.
00:18:13.45\00:18:19.94
And, Wayne, why don't
you look up Colossians 2:10,
00:18:19.97\00:18:24.86
we can look at both those verses
00:18:24.89\00:18:27.30
and there's a
message, a real message in that
00:18:27.33\00:18:30.97
in both of these verses
00:18:31.00\00:18:32.49
concerning
wholeness and salvation.
00:18:32.52\00:18:35.82
My Bible tells me in Romans 3
00:18:35.85\00:18:41.05
that a person is
justified not by works,
00:18:41.08\00:18:46.10
but by his
faith in Jesus Christ,
00:18:46.13\00:18:49.18
that when we
chose to give up sin,
00:18:49.21\00:18:51.78
Justification which
means acceptance with God,
00:18:51.81\00:18:55.70
and you are right with God,
00:18:55.73\00:18:57.58
that comes not
by getting married
00:18:57.61\00:19:01.12
or changing your orientation
00:19:01.15\00:19:03.68
or having all
temptation go away,
00:19:03.71\00:19:06.36
it comes when you
surrender your life
00:19:06.39\00:19:08.72
and you have
faith in Jesus Christ.
00:19:08.75\00:19:10.78
Now read those
couple of other texts.
00:19:10.81\00:19:13.13
Now this one in Luke 17
is about the Samaritan leper
00:19:13.16\00:19:18.36
that Jesus
healed and He told him,
00:19:18.39\00:19:21.42
Jesus told the
Samaritan, "Arise go thy way,
00:19:21.45\00:19:25.86
thy faith hath made thee whole."
00:19:25.89\00:19:28.25
Your faith has made you whole.
00:19:28.28\00:19:30.15
So this man was
whole. He was whole.
00:19:30.18\00:19:31.56
Had nothing to do with marriage.
00:19:31.59\00:19:33.02
Or sex. Or sex.
00:19:33.05\00:19:34.42
Or changing his orientation.
00:19:34.45\00:19:35.76
It was faith in Jesus.
00:19:35.79\00:19:36.82
It was faith in Jesus.
00:19:36.85\00:19:37.92
And here he was, he was whole
00:19:37.95\00:19:39.07
And Jesus said that.
00:19:39.10\00:19:40.50
So in God's sight that leper
who could represent sinners,
00:19:40.53\00:19:44.94
you know, we're all sinners.
00:19:44.97\00:19:46.00
And whatever our
bent or our tendency
00:19:46.03\00:19:47.53
or whatever it is our sins,
00:19:47.56\00:19:50.45
Jesus said by your
faith in me Jesus said,
00:19:50.48\00:19:53.97
it's made you whole.
00:19:54.00\00:19:55.25
You are a whole
person once again
00:19:55.28\00:19:58.30
through your
faith in the Son of God.
00:19:58.33\00:20:00.32
Okay, Wayne read the Colossians.
00:20:00.35\00:20:02.33
Sure.
00:20:02.36\00:20:03.39
"And you are complete in him,
00:20:03.42\00:20:05.95
who is the head of all
principality and power."
00:20:05.98\00:20:09.79
Yeah, I just love that verse.
00:20:09.82\00:20:11.71
Yeah, you are complete.
00:20:11.74\00:20:14.24
Now, so again, you know,
00:20:14.27\00:20:16.32
God is calling
us to repent of sin.
00:20:16.35\00:20:19.53
We do need to do that,
00:20:19.56\00:20:21.33
but once we've done
that and we trust in Him,
00:20:21.36\00:20:24.23
we can find
completeness in Christ.
00:20:24.26\00:20:27.41
Does the Bible teach
that you've to be married
00:20:27.44\00:20:29.05
in order to be saved.
00:20:29.08\00:20:30.18
Nothing that I've found.
00:20:30.21\00:20:31.36
Have you found
the text like that?
00:20:31.39\00:20:32.78
Well, Jesus wasn't and
neither was the Apostle Paul.
00:20:32.81\00:20:37.15
And John the Baptist
and Daniel and Jeremiah.
00:20:37.18\00:20:40.44
That's right, and Paul
wrote in Corinthians out
00:20:40.47\00:20:42.13
to the married I say this,
to the unmarried I say that,
00:20:42.16\00:20:45.39
and yeah I think of
something to think about
00:20:45.42\00:20:47.46
that Jesus Christ who is
God becoming a man in human form
00:20:47.49\00:20:52.74
so we could see a
revelation of God's love,
00:20:52.77\00:20:55.40
Jesus Christ never had sex.
00:20:55.43\00:20:58.10
He never had sex and
He never got married,
00:20:58.13\00:21:00.68
but yet are we gonna say that
Jesus himself isn't complete.
00:21:00.71\00:21:05.03
You know obviously not.
00:21:05.06\00:21:06.67
So sex does not
need to define us.
00:21:06.70\00:21:10.22
Right.
00:21:10.25\00:21:12.07
Life is bigger than that.
00:21:12.10\00:21:13.28
Yeah, Mathew 19 even tells us
00:21:13.31\00:21:15.11
that there will be those
who would be eunuchs for heaven.
00:21:15.14\00:21:18.83
And some chose it, some are,
00:21:18.86\00:21:21.98
you know, forced
like in Daniel's case.
00:21:22.01\00:21:23.75
He didn't have much of a choice.
00:21:23.78\00:21:25.30
But other people can chose,
00:21:25.33\00:21:26.72
they didn't
choose it's hard to say.
00:21:26.75\00:21:28.35
He who can accept
it, let him accept it.
00:21:28.38\00:21:30.28
That's right.
00:21:30.31\00:21:31.37
And so there's
choices you know about.
00:21:31.40\00:21:33.00
I want to get to
another, another issue
00:21:33.03\00:21:35.72
and that is the
whole sex change issue,
00:21:35.75\00:21:38.14
because it's
happening around us.
00:21:38.17\00:21:40.32
You know, all know people,
00:21:40.35\00:21:41.38
I went to college with
a young man who was a boy.
00:21:41.41\00:21:45.51
But later on he
went through a change,
00:21:45.54\00:21:46.95
he had surgery
and he became a girl.
00:21:46.98\00:21:49.59
And we know
that there are people
00:21:49.62\00:21:51.52
that have those changes,
you know, the surgeries,
00:21:51.55\00:21:54.56
they're confused or whatever,
00:21:54.59\00:21:55.84
they feel like they
should be what they're not.
00:21:55.87\00:21:58.40
And sometimes on the
other side of those changes,
00:21:58.43\00:22:03.57
God makes a move on them.
00:22:03.60\00:22:05.39
Because God still loves people
00:22:05.42\00:22:06.81
that are
transgenders, doesn't He?
00:22:06.84\00:22:08.65
He loves those
who've had the surgery,
00:22:08.68\00:22:10.16
I mean I think
Jesus really loves them,
00:22:10.19\00:22:12.27
and He just wants
to get a hold of them
00:22:12.30\00:22:13.79
and change their
lives, I think that.
00:22:13.82\00:22:15.87
So let's say
someone comes into a--
00:22:15.90\00:22:17.86
in awareness of this
00:22:17.89\00:22:19.79
and he really he
gets on his knees,
00:22:19.82\00:22:23.89
whether he's a man
who is now like a woman,
00:22:23.92\00:22:26.56
or a woman like a man,
they get on their knees
00:22:26.59\00:22:28.64
and they ask Jesus
to come in their heart.
00:22:28.67\00:22:30.22
And then they
walk into a church.
00:22:30.25\00:22:32.16
Do they have to go
through, is it salvation by sex?
00:22:32.19\00:22:35.18
Do they have to go
through a sex change?
00:22:35.21\00:22:37.40
If they have the money to
go through another surgery
00:22:37.43\00:22:39.83
in order for them
to truly be complete
00:22:39.86\00:22:42.79
or whole in the sight of God.
00:22:42.82\00:22:45.03
You know, had to Christians
to deal with this and what,
00:22:45.06\00:22:46.95
you know, what's
your thought on that?
00:22:46.98\00:22:48.56
Jesus does meet us where we are
00:22:48.59\00:22:51.42
and you know it is like
00:22:51.45\00:22:53.68
when I was studying my
way out of the gay life,
00:22:53.71\00:22:56.57
I was drinking margaritas
and smoking cigarettes
00:22:56.60\00:22:59.30
and reading God's
word looking for answers.
00:22:59.33\00:23:02.52
God met me where I was
and a person like this,
00:23:02.55\00:23:06.89
you know, the Bible tells us
00:23:06.92\00:23:08.00
Jesus himself said seek ye first
00:23:08.03\00:23:10.65
the kingdom of God
and His righteousness
00:23:10.68\00:23:13.63
and all these things
shall be added unto you.
00:23:13.66\00:23:16.16
If a person like
that comes to accept Jesus
00:23:16.19\00:23:19.46
and realizes they've
made a terrible mistake.
00:23:19.49\00:23:22.27
The focus should
be first developing
00:23:22.30\00:23:24.91
your relationship with Jesus
00:23:24.94\00:23:27.13
and the word says
all of these things
00:23:27.16\00:23:29.21
shall be added unto you.
00:23:29.24\00:23:31.31
So the Lord will
reveal unto that person
00:23:31.34\00:23:34.19
I think what needs to be done.
00:23:34.22\00:23:36.28
We don't always have
the answers in our humanity.
00:23:36.31\00:23:41.61
When we meet someone
in situation like that,
00:23:41.64\00:23:44.32
some of these medical conditions
00:23:44.35\00:23:46.71
and hormone conditions
that are hard to explain.
00:23:46.74\00:23:49.87
Yes, you mentioned
that someone that was high.
00:23:49.90\00:23:52.34
Probably ten times the
level of estrogen of a woman
00:23:52.37\00:23:54.97
and this was a teenage boy
with hardly any testosterone
00:23:55.00\00:23:58.60
and the parents and the
pastor wanted me to tell them
00:23:58.63\00:24:00.93
what did they do.
00:24:00.96\00:24:02.30
When I met this person,
00:24:02.33\00:24:03.90
the Lord prompted me instantly
00:24:03.93\00:24:06.78
that this person's
problem was not hormonal
00:24:06.81\00:24:10.10
and sex oriented, he
was a person without Jesus
00:24:10.13\00:24:15.46
and I said why
worry about changing
00:24:15.49\00:24:17.34
this person's identity,
00:24:17.37\00:24:21.76
general identity at this point.
00:24:21.79\00:24:24.81
What this person needs is Jesus.
00:24:24.84\00:24:27.15
Seek first Jesus,
that is the main point.
00:24:27.18\00:24:30.49
The other things will
come by beholding Him,
00:24:30.52\00:24:33.64
we become changed.
00:24:33.67\00:24:34.72
And they come step
by step, don't they?
00:24:34.75\00:24:36.10
And if a person
doesn't get to a step
00:24:36.13\00:24:38.01
where they get to have the money
00:24:38.04\00:24:39.09
or have the surgery,
00:24:39.12\00:24:40.84
you know, the
Lord's gonna give us
00:24:40.87\00:24:41.94
new bodies when He comes.
00:24:41.97\00:24:43.30
And we nurture along the way.
00:24:43.33\00:24:45.44
Yes, as church congregations
00:24:45.47\00:24:47.68
we're asked to
love as Jesus loved
00:24:47.71\00:24:50.08
to be disciples of Jesus,
00:24:50.11\00:24:52.04
to not so much have expectations
00:24:52.07\00:24:54.20
but to love the individual,
to pray for the individual
00:24:54.23\00:24:57.29
and walk with them as
they're walking with God.
00:24:57.32\00:24:59.79
So we should serve to someone,
00:24:59.82\00:25:00.92
the pastor shouldn't
stand at the door of the church
00:25:00.95\00:25:02.93
and say to a transgender
00:25:02.96\00:25:05.73
who wants to come to
God and come to church.
00:25:05.76\00:25:09.22
They shouldn't say, now wait,
00:25:09.25\00:25:10.43
you know, you have to go out
00:25:10.46\00:25:11.49
and get your change
back, be change back
00:25:11.52\00:25:13.97
and then once
you're changed back,
00:25:14.00\00:25:15.71
then we'll let you in.
00:25:15.74\00:25:17.82
The doors should
be open for worship.
00:25:17.85\00:25:20.53
Membership is sacred,
that's a different level
00:25:20.56\00:25:24.15
but anyone should feel that
00:25:24.18\00:25:25.73
they can walk into
the doors of our churches
00:25:25.76\00:25:28.45
and find
sanctuary and find Jesus.
00:25:28.48\00:25:31.52
Yeah, that the church is
still should be a hospital
00:25:31.55\00:25:34.59
for sinners and
we're all sinners.
00:25:34.62\00:25:36.67
And you know, sin
is, it's difficult
00:25:36.70\00:25:40.73
but God deals
with it all the time
00:25:40.76\00:25:43.99
and He loves sinners
in spite of their sin
00:25:44.02\00:25:46.65
and He is in the business
00:25:46.68\00:25:47.72
of saving
sinners from their sins.
00:25:47.75\00:25:49.91
For many years now.
00:25:49.94\00:25:50.99
And the church
needs to be the hands
00:25:51.02\00:25:54.61
and the voice and the
heart of the compassionate God.
00:25:54.64\00:25:58.11
That's right, who welcomes,
00:25:58.14\00:25:59.52
you know, the prodigal
son when he was out there,
00:25:59.55\00:26:01.73
if he had a sex
change and then he came back,
00:26:01.76\00:26:04.02
I still think the father
would have run out to him
00:26:04.05\00:26:06.78
and put his arms around him
00:26:06.81\00:26:08.45
and welcomed him
home, don't you think?
00:26:08.48\00:26:10.98
Yes, absolutely.
00:26:11.01\00:26:12.04
I'm sure, I'm sure.
00:26:12.07\00:26:13.12
Well, we're down near the end.
00:26:13.15\00:26:14.37
I just want to zero
back in on Colossians 2:10.
00:26:14.40\00:26:18.73
To me this verse is so powerful
00:26:18.76\00:26:20.62
and it shows that
we're not saved by sex.
00:26:20.65\00:26:22.22
We're not saved by sex changes.
00:26:22.25\00:26:24.67
We are saved through
Jesus and He is the center.
00:26:24.70\00:26:31.00
He wants to be the center
of our lives and of your life.
00:26:31.03\00:26:34.61
Colossians 2:10 says,
"You are complete in Him."
00:26:34.64\00:26:40.86
If you are
searching for wholeness,
00:26:40.89\00:26:42.71
it's not gonna come from sex.
00:26:42.74\00:26:45.02
Wholeness and completeness
00:26:45.05\00:26:47.45
and your humanity being restored
00:26:47.48\00:26:50.33
is going to come
through Jesus Christ alone.
00:26:50.36\00:26:54.06
It's through Him
and He loves you,
00:26:54.09\00:26:56.00
He wants you, no
matter how messed up
00:26:56.03\00:26:57.86
you may be, He loves you,
00:26:57.89\00:26:59.36
He wants you and He's calling
00:26:59.39\00:27:02.43
wherever you are,
whatever you've done.
00:27:02.46\00:27:04.56
He's calling you to
give your life to Him
00:27:04.59\00:27:07.62
and He will make
you complete in Him
00:27:07.65\00:27:09.23
and He'll lead you step by
step where He wants you to go.
00:27:09.26\00:27:14.02
So we've got more to
come, another program next,
00:27:14.05\00:27:16.91
so tune in for the
next edition of Coming Out.
00:27:16.94\00:27:22.55
If you would like to order
the 13 part Coming Out series
00:27:22.58\00:27:25.44
for $34.95 plus
shipping, call 1-800-782-4253.
00:27:25.47\00:27:30.75
Or write to White Horse Media,
00:27:30.78\00:27:32.09
PO Box 1139,
00:27:32.12\00:27:33.71
Newport, Washington, 99156.
00:27:33.74\00:27:36.55
Pastor Ron
Woolsey, Dwayne Blakely
00:27:36.58\00:27:38.39
and Mike Carducci
are each available
00:27:38.42\00:27:40.03
to conduct a
seminar in your area.
00:27:40.06\00:27:42.37
To schedule a
speaking engagement,
00:27:42.40\00:27:43.90
contact Coming Out Ministries
00:27:43.93\00:27:45.46
by calling 360-936-8514,
00:27:45.49\00:27:49.22
or visit
comingoutministries.org.
00:27:49.25\00:27:51.86