"Can you Pray the Gay Away?"
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That's our topic
next on Coming Out.
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Welcome to part
nine of Coming Out.
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This is a special
series that we really hope
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is something that will
help to heal hurting hearts,
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that's what this is all about.
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And I'm Steve
Wohlberg, and I'm here
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again in our studio
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with Pastor Ron
Woolsey and Mike Carducci,
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they are cofounders of the
ministry called Coming Out,
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that is really a
multifaceted ministry, it's--
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it's designed to
speak to the public,
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to educate the church
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and to help those that
are involved in gay issues,
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to find real
solutions to their issues
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that will genuinely
gain peace to their hearts.
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And so here we are
again guys, this is it,
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number nine we got
lot to do and you know,
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as I look at the sequence
of the programs that we've had,
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I can honestly say
that I think this is
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possibly one of the
most important of them all
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and we need to summarize
a little bit where we been.
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You have told your stories of
coming out of a gay lifestyle.
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And what is happened to
you, which is invariable to us,
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you know, just to
hear what you have to say
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and we've also
looked at the Bible.
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We have said without apology
that we believe in this book.
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We believe what the Bible says,
that we believe in God of love,
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but God of love who
also tells us the truth.
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He has given us a
revelation of His plan,
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in the Garden of Eden
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for a male and a female
to be united in marriage.
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We believe in that plan,
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we see that plan all
through out the Bible
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and we've also
seen verses that tell us
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that there are deviations
from His plan that well,
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He may love, He
does love people,
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He does not approve
of those deviations.
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And I know it's
a-- it's a tough text,
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many people don't
like us sharing this,
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but we believe that there is
a whole lot of people out there
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that really
need this information
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as part of their healing.
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Romans 1:26, 27 talk about
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men a burning in
their hearts with a--
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with desires for other men
and women go against nature,
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Romans 1 says.
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And burning in theirs hearts
with desires for other women,
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and I we've also
mention that those two verses
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are in a context of
whole host of verses
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that deal with
actually 24 different sins,
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and whether it's you
know, this sin or that sin
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or whole host of other sins
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really ultimately
we're all in this together.
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Because whatever
direction or flesh goes
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we all have the similar
problem and that is sin,
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and we need--
we need a solution,
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and that's what
we're here to talk about
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today about the solution,
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is there really
hope for real change
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to those that are
struggling with this issue?
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Can you pray the
gay away that's our--
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that's our topic
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and so I'm gonna
turn this time over to you
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'cause you got a lot to say.
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Well, I think pray
the gay away has become
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such a cliché, but in my
experience I prayed plenty
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that God would you know,
make me straight and that my--
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my thoughts would be straight
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and I didn't know
how untwist this--
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this rope that it gotten so
knotted up for me, and so I--
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I resonate with people
that say the same thing
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and you know, they been
documentaries done about it
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and basically the answer is
no, you can't pray the gay away,
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but I would say
that it's more than that,
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it's more than just
praying the gay away.
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There's many
steps in the process
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of coming out of that lifestyle
more than just praying.
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I had to not only pray
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but I also needed
to cooperate with--
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with what the Lord
was bringing to me,
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through His word
and through the--
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through the
experiences of other people.
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So I mean, at first--
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at first I would
just want to affirm
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that you believe and I believe
that real change is possible.
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I know that there are
many that say, you know,
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if you're born that
way, that's just way you are,
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and nothing is
really gonna change you.
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Pastor Ron, you
can relate to that
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because that's part of--
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that's actually
the title of your book.
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That kind can
never change, can they?
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And you are proof
that-- Exhibit "A."
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Yeah, that statement
really isn't correct.
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Hey we're all
exhibit "A" aren't we?
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But you know, on this--
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this question of
praying the gay away
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I really
sympathize with those who have
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tried to pray the gay away
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and have been disappointed
because that's my experience.
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When I was first--
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when I was young
and I was married
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and I was the father
of two little children
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and I was being just overwhelmed
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with these
desires and temptations,
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and tendencies
that I had not acted on
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and I prayed relentlessly that
the Lord would take that away.
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I wanted to be-- I
was a spiritual person,
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I wanted to be a
faithful husband,
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I wanted to truly love my wife,
I wanted to be a good father,
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and I prayed relentlessly that
the Lord would take this away
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and He didn't.
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And when I eventually
fell into the gay life,
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and as I've said
in earlier programs,
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I went angry and
bitter against God,
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but there is just so
much I did not understand--
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about this whole issue.
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There is as Mike said,
there is much more to--
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to this issue than just praying,
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in fact, we'll
talk about it later.
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There are many
steps that can be taken.
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That in praying--
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I eventually
became so frustrated,
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I stopped praying.
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And when I stopped praying
that's when I fell into it.
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I didn't realize that
as long as I was praying,
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I was resisting and I
was resisting temptation
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and I had not fallen into it.
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But when I stopped praying,
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gave up on God,
became angry with God,
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I had no defense
whatsoever, and then I fell,
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fell headlong in to it.
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So the first time
around ultimately, you know,
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you didn't have all
the information I guess.
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And it didn't
really work for you,
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at the first time-- time around,
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I'm sure a lot of
people can relate to that
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although you were,
you were still by praying,
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you were making progress but--
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I was resisting.
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Yeah, you were
resisting, but there is still
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where a whole a lot of
things you didn't understand.
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And then second time
around things you really,
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you made even more progress
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and something
really big did happen.
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Oh, yes. Well, I think this--
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This I know this is
where I made the mistake
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and this is where many
people make the mistake.
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They say, well, if God
didn't want me to be this way,
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He wouldn't have
made me this way.
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And at any time He
wants, He can take it away.
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But that just eliminates
any participation on our part,
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any exercise on our part
and it really gives an excuse.
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And we talked about
excuses earlier and blaming
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because God doesn't answer
my prayer and just take it away.
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Then He must want
me to be this way.
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I mean that's the
argument you hear all the time.
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Yeah.
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But there is much more to it
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then just
praying and sitting back
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and waiting for the Lord
to do what we should be doing.
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Okay, so Ron, I really
identify with that statement
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because God isn't gonna
wrestle anything away from me.
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So even the Bible says
that everything permissible
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but not
everything is beneficial.
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And so you know, by saying Lord,
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if you want to
change me You can, you know.
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He needs my
permission to work in my life
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because He gives us the--
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the freedom of
free choice, right?
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And so He is not
gonna just take it away.
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He has to have our
cooperation in that
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because He is not a
God that's forcefully,
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He doesn't push His way.
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That was awesome, I
really appreciate that comment.
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And so I, you know,
both of you have been there
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and now you are out,
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I mean you are
cofounders of Coming Out,
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and you have a
mission and a message
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to a whole lot of people
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and I guess what
I really want to--
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what I really want to
focus on that I guess,
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but what I do on a focus on
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and I'm sure a lot of
people are probably wondering
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this is what was it really
if you put the details together,
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make it practical, you
know, what worked for you?
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Because obvious to me, I
mean, I know both of you,
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your lives are happy,
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you know, Ron, we
have breakfast together
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and you're a happy man.
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And Mike, you know,
we can hear you singing
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and humming in
between these programs,
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you know, as you
walking around the building,
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and you are just,
you're a happy person.
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And so, you know,
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a lot of people that are
struggling with these issues
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they are not happy,
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they are
conflicted, they are confused,
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they are
tormented, they bothered,
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they looking for help
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and so we are
looking to you now to tell us
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what worked for you
and how is it possible
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to have that real, genuine
transformation take place?
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Well, I can I assure you
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that prayer was a
very major part of it,
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but what worked for me, I
actually itemized in my book.
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Can I just go to those
steps and just name them?
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The last chapter
of my book is called
00:10:30.84\00:10:32.60
"You Too Can Be Made Whole"
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and what I basically did
was I listed these steps.
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I felt the Lord led
me through to victory,
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and to sustain me in victory.
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And of course I written
paragraphs about each of these,
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but I will just name the steps.
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First of all, I came to realize
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God's love for me
in my fallen condition,
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I realize that He
love me immensely.
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That gave me value,
and so with that value
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I been faced myself.
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I just had to take
honest look at myself
00:11:03.42\00:11:05.72
and what I saw was not
pretty and then I acknowledged
00:11:05.75\00:11:11.56
that what I was
dealing with was a sin issue,
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that was the third
step for me to acknowledge
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that this is a sin issue then
and Jesus can save me from sin.
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Number four,
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I went through and I listed
every abomination in the Bible
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to put them all
together in paragraph
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that gave me great hope
that salvation was for me too.
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Mine was not the
abomination, it was one of many
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and God can save us
from any abomination.
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Then I realized that
the cause of homosexuality
00:11:43.25\00:11:46.58
which we've discussed on this
program was really a relevant.
00:11:46.61\00:11:49.96
It doesn't matter
what the cause was,
00:11:49.99\00:11:52.53
if I'm drowning in the sea,
00:11:52.56\00:11:54.39
what difference does
it make how I got there?
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Do I accept the
hand of the lifeguard
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or do I keep making
excuses for drowning.
00:11:59.14\00:12:01.89
Couldn't.
00:12:01.92\00:12:03.11
Number six, I had
to learn to forgive.
00:12:03.14\00:12:06.81
I had many people to forgive,
00:12:06.84\00:12:09.28
but not only did
I have to forgive,
00:12:09.31\00:12:13.00
I had to ask forgiveness as well
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because I had heard people.
00:12:15.89\00:12:17.74
Number seven,
00:12:17.77\00:12:18.95
I acknowledge that this
really is a matter of choice
00:12:18.98\00:12:21.78
and I had
resisted that all my life
00:12:21.81\00:12:23.75
saying that it was
not a matter of choice.
00:12:23.78\00:12:26.45
But if God gives us a
way out and we don't take it
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then it is a choice.
00:12:30.22\00:12:32.25
Number eight,
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I studied and realized
that temptation was not sin,
00:12:33.89\00:12:37.56
and I didn't have to
carry around the burden
00:12:37.59\00:12:40.66
of this
temptation is my identity.
00:12:40.69\00:12:43.19
Yeah, you didn't
have to feel guilty
00:12:43.22\00:12:44.71
just because you were tempted.
00:12:44.74\00:12:46.13
His feeling are
flowing through you,
00:12:46.16\00:12:48.26
but unless you're
choosing to go with them--
00:12:48.29\00:12:51.37
There is no sin,
there is no guilt,
00:12:51.40\00:12:54.09
it's just temptation.
00:12:54.12\00:12:55.33
And I think that would be--
00:12:55.36\00:12:56.39
that should be a
huge wait for some people,
00:12:56.42\00:12:59.91
to just realize
that-- that critical point.
00:12:59.94\00:13:02.48
Yeah, that was a very,
very critical point for me
00:13:02.51\00:13:05.83
to realize that I
didn't have to be identified
00:13:05.86\00:13:08.37
by the nature of the temptations
00:13:08.40\00:13:10.89
as Satan had designed for me.
00:13:10.92\00:13:13.41
Number nine, I realize
I needed to walk with God.
00:13:13.44\00:13:17.09
I needed to develop
a relationship with Him
00:13:17.12\00:13:20.02
and number ten, to
protect my environment.
00:13:20.05\00:13:22.70
I uprooted myself and move
from California to Arkansas,
00:13:22.73\00:13:27.44
to do my next 40
years in the wilderness.
00:13:27.47\00:13:31.70
To protect my environment,
00:13:31.73\00:13:34.11
to stay away from
the bad influence--
00:13:34.14\00:13:37.11
somebody once
said something like
00:13:37.14\00:13:39.67
one way to win the war
is to avoid the battle.
00:13:39.70\00:13:43.21
That you know,
we need to get away,
00:13:43.24\00:13:44.78
Jesus said that we should pray
lead us not in to temptation,
00:13:44.81\00:13:48.12
so part of overcoming temptation
00:13:48.15\00:13:50.92
is getting away from
temptation as much as we can.
00:13:50.95\00:13:54.00
Right, number 11, I
learned to personalize scripture
00:13:54.03\00:13:58.82
and I have an article
that I put together called
00:13:58.85\00:14:00.86
a Rainbow of Promises.
00:14:00.89\00:14:02.61
And I would insert
my name in the promises.
00:14:02.64\00:14:05.53
So as I reading the promises
00:14:05.56\00:14:07.33
I'm reading them
to me personally.
00:14:07.36\00:14:09.82
That was a very powerful tool.
00:14:09.85\00:14:12.52
And number 12, I
learned to act on God's word.
00:14:12.55\00:14:15.64
Yes, I prayed,
but then I acted--
00:14:15.67\00:14:19.84
I learned to act to
answer my own prayer,
00:14:19.87\00:14:22.55
I would take God it is
doing. At what part do you pray?
00:14:22.58\00:14:24.56
And do my part I
would act up on it
00:14:24.59\00:14:27.24
and trust the Lord to do
His part and give me strength.
00:14:27.27\00:14:30.45
And number 13,
00:14:30.48\00:14:31.52
which I found to be very
helpful is to just be grateful
00:14:31.55\00:14:34.61
for what God has given
00:14:34.64\00:14:36.66
and not try to you live
outside of what He has given me.
00:14:36.69\00:14:40.83
He has given us marriage
between a man and a women,
00:14:40.86\00:14:44.01
I need to be grateful for that,
00:14:44.04\00:14:45.90
and not covet the fruit on
the other side of the fence
00:14:45.93\00:14:49.24
or the fruit on the
wrong tree in the garden.
00:14:49.27\00:14:52.27
And number 14, the last one,
that I have my list is that--
00:14:52.30\00:14:57.09
the secret to over coming sin
00:14:57.12\00:14:59.17
is helping
others to overcome sin.
00:14:59.20\00:15:01.45
And upon my conversion
00:15:01.48\00:15:02.69
I was immediately launched
into ministry just like you,
00:15:02.72\00:15:05.71
just like Wayne.
00:15:05.74\00:15:07.38
Excuse me, just like Wayne,
00:15:07.41\00:15:09.07
and we overcome the accuser
by the blood of their lamb
00:15:09.10\00:15:12.29
and by the word
of our testimony.
00:15:12.32\00:15:13.65
Amen.
00:15:13.68\00:15:14.71
By sharing what the
Lord has done for us
00:15:14.74\00:15:17.17
we are constantly
having positive reinforcement.
00:15:17.20\00:15:20.94
Thank you, thank
you, Pastor Ron. Mike.
00:15:20.97\00:15:23.55
And so as you were reading those
00:15:23.58\00:15:24.84
and kind of explaining them,
00:15:24.87\00:15:26.61
Ron, you know, for me it was a
little bit different than that,
00:15:26.64\00:15:29.79
and I think that
what so wonderful is
00:15:29.82\00:15:31.93
that we serve a personal God.
00:15:31.96\00:15:33.98
And so you know, for some
people it isn't necessary,
00:15:34.01\00:15:36.92
you know, how
they ended up there,
00:15:36.95\00:15:38.55
and that God, you know,
can bring you out of anything.
00:15:38.58\00:15:41.02
And yet for me when I
gave my heart to the Lord
00:15:41.05\00:15:43.70
and I read these--
00:15:43.73\00:15:44.81
these horrible verses that
said that I was in abomination
00:15:44.84\00:15:47.45
and yet I believe
that God made me gay,
00:15:47.48\00:15:49.97
you know, I put
it to Him I said,
00:15:50.00\00:15:51.57
I want to know why?
00:15:51.60\00:15:53.03
I want to know how
this thing happened?
00:15:53.06\00:15:54.87
And because there
weren't any resources
00:15:54.90\00:15:56.47
and there wasn't
anyone that I felt safe
00:15:56.50\00:15:58.64
to talk to in-- in church,
00:15:58.67\00:16:00.10
even though I
was going to church
00:16:00.13\00:16:02.04
and I was
following Jesus Christ.
00:16:02.07\00:16:04.10
What was so
tendering and compassionate
00:16:04.13\00:16:05.94
from my Savior is that
00:16:05.97\00:16:07.17
He started to put
me in front of sermons
00:16:07.20\00:16:09.71
that started to
give me clues and ideas
00:16:09.74\00:16:12.27
that there are
hereditary tendencies,
00:16:12.30\00:16:14.51
as well as cultivated
things that of course that I had
00:16:14.54\00:16:17.34
you know, engaged to myself,
but it helped me to understand
00:16:17.37\00:16:20.42
that at the earliest
moment that I thought I was gay,
00:16:20.45\00:16:23.53
it wasn't because I'm
inherited gay tendencies
00:16:23.56\00:16:26.06
it was because of the sexual sin
00:16:26.09\00:16:27.76
that had gone on for there
and four generations behind me
00:16:27.79\00:16:30.46
and then not only
to understand that,
00:16:30.49\00:16:32.31
but also to start to
understand the way out.
00:16:32.34\00:16:34.71
I didn't want to
give up my boyfriend.
00:16:34.74\00:16:36.29
I didn't want to give
up my sexual addiction.
00:16:36.32\00:16:38.52
And so it was a
slow process for me,
00:16:38.55\00:16:40.96
where is Ron, for you within
a year you already married,
00:16:40.99\00:16:44.54
but how good is God
that He is so personal,
00:16:44.57\00:16:47.18
that He is willing to
take whatever our situation.
00:16:47.21\00:16:49.53
I love this one
personally, a author says.
00:16:49.56\00:16:51.41
Yes, she says that
God takes into account
00:16:51.44\00:16:53.84
from cause to effect,
00:16:53.87\00:16:55.61
and the one that's
most inclined to air,
00:16:55.64\00:16:57.79
the one that's most
inclined to hurt and be hurt
00:16:57.82\00:17:00.63
is the special
object of his focus.
00:17:00.66\00:17:03.49
And I believe that,
00:17:03.52\00:17:04.59
that is more than
just praying the gay away.
00:17:04.62\00:17:06.90
I had two sisters that
were praying for me for years.
00:17:06.93\00:17:09.52
God didn't rip out the--
the road from underneath me
00:17:09.55\00:17:12.12
and I wasn't laying
in a gutter somewhere,
00:17:12.15\00:17:14.27
you know, as
alcoholic and drug addict,
00:17:14.30\00:17:16.66
I was at the top of my game
00:17:16.69\00:17:18.33
and yet God was
still able to reach me
00:17:18.36\00:17:20.09
through inner
sensory prayer my sisters.
00:17:20.12\00:17:22.58
So can you pray the gay away?
00:17:22.61\00:17:25.29
May be not totally,
00:17:25.32\00:17:26.49
but it's
definitely in my opinion
00:17:26.52\00:17:28.05
a vital part of the
process out of the gay life.
00:17:28.08\00:17:31.71
So it's not the only
thing. No, but it's vital. Yes.
00:17:31.74\00:17:34.51
But as far as the gay
going away, that can't happen.
00:17:34.54\00:17:38.36
Right, but--
00:17:38.39\00:17:39.45
okay, you know, if God could
have just wave that magic wand
00:17:39.48\00:17:41.72
and just hit me
over head and boob now,
00:17:41.75\00:17:43.32
I'm straight, you know.
So doesn't happen over night?
00:17:43.35\00:17:46.20
But what had denied me was
the opportunity to go through
00:17:46.23\00:17:49.51
the process of
looking at all the pain
00:17:49.54\00:17:51.64
and all of the damage
that have been done to me
00:17:51.67\00:17:53.96
and what was so kind of God,
00:17:53.99\00:17:55.60
as He gave it to me slowly at
a time that I could look at it,
00:17:55.63\00:17:59.00
I could process it, and I
could hand it over to Him.
00:17:59.03\00:18:02.00
And as He was able to do
that over a course of years,
00:18:02.03\00:18:04.77
which was always my choice to--
00:18:04.80\00:18:06.41
to choose to do or not do
00:18:06.44\00:18:08.10
but He was patience
and He was long suffering
00:18:08.13\00:18:10.50
and it was messy on my part,
00:18:10.53\00:18:12.42
but as I was willing to
do that He was faithful,
00:18:12.45\00:18:15.01
He stood right by me
and every time I fell,
00:18:15.04\00:18:17.12
and I fell a lot, He
said Mike, get back up.
00:18:17.15\00:18:19.80
I still want
you, I still love you
00:18:19.83\00:18:22.07
and I believe that all of
that was part of the process
00:18:22.10\00:18:24.72
of coming out of that lifestyle.
00:18:24.75\00:18:26.52
Wonderful, how
important was the community
00:18:26.55\00:18:29.30
that you told me that,
00:18:29.33\00:18:31.11
the church your
involvement in a good church
00:18:31.14\00:18:34.48
and a healing church,
where people didn't just go,
00:18:34.51\00:18:38.57
you know, I'm just--
00:18:38.60\00:18:39.91
But you know, Steve, the
shame is I experienced both.
00:18:39.94\00:18:43.01
I remember
going in to one church
00:18:43.04\00:18:45.40
and you know, even the--
00:18:45.43\00:18:47.62
even one of the head elders
that was on this board meeting
00:18:47.65\00:18:50.74
told me that he didn't
want to run around on the woods
00:18:50.77\00:18:52.87
like a bunch of
homosexuals and you know,
00:18:52.90\00:18:55.37
was making a pitch to
have a men's ministry.
00:18:55.40\00:18:57.53
But when I moved
to another church,
00:18:57.56\00:18:59.24
this simple man, you
know, asked to wash my feet
00:18:59.27\00:19:02.60
and as he was washing my feet
he just poured over me with--
00:19:02.63\00:19:05.50
with love you know, we
appreciate you being here
00:19:05.53\00:19:07.89
and we're grateful
that you chose to come here,
00:19:07.92\00:19:10.27
what a blessing you've been.
00:19:10.30\00:19:11.65
And when he prayed for me
00:19:11.68\00:19:12.94
every man in that room stood up,
00:19:12.97\00:19:14.97
walked over and
put their hands on me.
00:19:15.00\00:19:16.88
I didn't even
realize the power of healing
00:19:16.91\00:19:19.32
that was coming
through those men.
00:19:19.35\00:19:20.98
They didn't know
what they were doing,
00:19:21.01\00:19:22.46
they were just
following the Holy Spirit urges
00:19:22.49\00:19:25.49
to affirm me, to include me
00:19:25.52\00:19:27.73
and part of that was
also part of the healing
00:19:27.76\00:19:30.29
and the restoring
to my masculinity.
00:19:30.32\00:19:32.81
Wow. Praise God.
Yeah, so God has many--
00:19:32.84\00:19:36.26
So His people has a role, His--
00:19:36.29\00:19:38.72
His people that
Christians need to reach out
00:19:38.75\00:19:43.15
and not be repulsed.
00:19:43.18\00:19:44.99
I mean, I know that you
know, sin whatever it is.
00:19:45.02\00:19:47.88
It is repulsive and
some people say well,
00:19:47.91\00:19:49.45
you know, I just
can't-- I can't do that.
00:19:49.48\00:19:51.46
I can't love you,
I can't talk to you,
00:19:51.49\00:19:53.34
I can't minister to
you, I can't be your friend.
00:19:53.37\00:19:55.72
You know, because
there is just a sin.
00:19:55.75\00:19:57.73
But as I thought about that,
00:19:57.76\00:19:58.95
you know, I think
about to Jesus, all sin is--
00:19:58.98\00:20:04.39
you know, I just He--
He-- the Bible actually says,
00:20:04.42\00:20:08.70
in His heart He
has a heart of love,
00:20:08.73\00:20:10.83
but there is one thing
00:20:10.86\00:20:12.06
that the Bible
does say that He hates.
00:20:12.09\00:20:13.46
It's in Hebrews Chapter 1,
00:20:13.49\00:20:14.81
it says you have hated
lawlessness, He hates sin.
00:20:14.84\00:20:17.78
He loves righteousness,
He hates lawlessness.
00:20:17.81\00:20:19.77
He hate sin because He knows
00:20:19.80\00:20:21.71
how harmful sin
is to His universe.
00:20:21.74\00:20:24.50
Because of His love,
He hates what's evil,
00:20:24.53\00:20:27.53
but at the same time
00:20:27.56\00:20:29.42
when He look at the
sin down here that He hates
00:20:29.45\00:20:31.74
He chose to come down here.
00:20:31.77\00:20:33.88
He chose to work with all of us.
00:20:33.91\00:20:37.38
So whether we have you know,
00:20:37.41\00:20:39.05
same sex attraction, temptations
00:20:39.08\00:20:41.35
or opposite sex
attraction temptation
00:20:41.38\00:20:44.86
or pornographic
temptation or alcohol or drugs
00:20:44.89\00:20:47.51
or tobacco or pride,
00:20:47.54\00:20:50.70
which we're all, you know,
stuck in we often don't see.
00:20:50.73\00:20:54.71
God needs really
deal with us in that.
00:20:54.74\00:20:56.30
Whatever the issue is,
00:20:56.33\00:20:57.88
lying gossip the
whole list of Romans 20,
00:20:57.91\00:21:00.10
Romans chapter well
there is 24 of them.
00:21:00.13\00:21:02.38
Whatever it is, you know,
00:21:02.41\00:21:04.71
Jesus chose to come down
here in the midst of all that
00:21:04.74\00:21:08.65
and to take all those
sins into His own mind
00:21:08.68\00:21:10.89
and into His own
heart to pay the price,
00:21:10.92\00:21:12.87
so He can reach out
to sinners like you,
00:21:12.90\00:21:16.10
you and like me
and get a hold of me
00:21:16.13\00:21:19.13
and get us out
because He loved us.
00:21:19.16\00:21:22.37
And the church needs to play
that role of reveling that--
00:21:22.40\00:21:27.77
that grace. That grace.
00:21:27.80\00:21:29.79
Imagine if we could see that--
00:21:29.82\00:21:31.47
that
transformation in our churches
00:21:31.50\00:21:33.87
and part of what we talk
about is not just educating
00:21:33.90\00:21:37.34
or calling people
out of homosexual sin,
00:21:37.37\00:21:39.87
but really we want
to educate the church
00:21:39.90\00:21:42.21
to create a safe place
00:21:42.24\00:21:43.46
where people can come
from the community inside,
00:21:43.49\00:21:45.99
but you can't give something
that you haven't received.
00:21:46.02\00:21:48.44
And so if a church still--
00:21:48.47\00:21:50.44
you know,
struggles with prejudice or--
00:21:50.47\00:21:52.70
or with not being able to
really deal with the issues
00:21:52.73\00:21:55.34
that people struggle
with inside the church,
00:21:55.37\00:21:57.34
how are they gonna be effective
00:21:57.37\00:21:58.53
to deal with the
issues on the outside?
00:21:58.56\00:22:00.53
That right. You know,
there is a verse that just,
00:22:00.56\00:22:03.69
I feel like I got to share this.
00:22:03.72\00:22:05.16
It came to me earlier.
00:22:05.19\00:22:06.46
It's in Psalm
104:20, I remember I was--
00:22:06.49\00:22:11.45
I'm sorry not
Psalm 104, Psalm 107.
00:22:11.48\00:22:13.69
I was holding a series
of meeting once in Canada
00:22:13.72\00:22:16.08
and there was a lady that
was coming to the meetings
00:22:16.11\00:22:17.58
and she-- her
life was all mixed up.
00:22:17.61\00:22:19.95
She had all kind of
addictions and problems
00:22:19.98\00:22:22.31
and anyway she came to meetings
00:22:22.34\00:22:23.93
and she talked to
me after one of the--
00:22:23.96\00:22:25.40
one of the meetings
and I opened my Bible
00:22:25.43\00:22:27.25
and I show to this verse.
00:22:27.28\00:22:29.39
Psalm 107:20 that says
00:22:29.42\00:22:31.50
"He sent his
word, and healed them,
00:22:31.53\00:22:35.61
and delivered them
from their destructions."
00:22:35.64\00:22:38.84
Amen. Wow, and she--
00:22:38.87\00:22:40.84
She took this verse,
she enlarged in her--
00:22:40.87\00:22:43.34
in her mind and she told me
later that as she drove away
00:22:43.37\00:22:47.29
she kept
thinking about this verse.
00:22:47.32\00:22:48.94
He sent his
word, and healed them,
00:22:48.97\00:22:51.25
and delivered them
from their destructions.
00:22:51.28\00:22:52.74
And she realized
that she was driving,
00:22:52.77\00:22:53.94
she told me later,
she said that I had--
00:22:53.97\00:22:55.79
I had all this destructions in
my life that were destroying me
00:22:55.82\00:22:59.27
and she believe that God
had brought her to meetings
00:22:59.30\00:23:02.36
and send His word to heal her.
00:23:02.39\00:23:05.33
And she just knew that she said
00:23:05.36\00:23:06.47
I'm gonna keep
going to those meetings
00:23:06.50\00:23:08.31
and at the end
her life was changed.
00:23:08.34\00:23:10.31
Because God's
word has power to heal
00:23:10.34\00:23:12.65
and to deliver from whatever
destruction we're dealing with.
00:23:12.68\00:23:16.02
You know, I found another verse
00:23:16.05\00:23:17.60
while we just
talking James 5:16 says
00:23:17.63\00:23:20.12
"Confess your
faults one to another,
00:23:20.15\00:23:21.88
and pray one for
another, that you may be healed.
00:23:21.91\00:23:24.74
The effectual fervent prayer
of a righteous man avails much."
00:23:24.77\00:23:28.77
And so not only are we talking
about an individual prayer,
00:23:28.80\00:23:31.56
prayer for ourselves, but
also what if we had that--
00:23:31.59\00:23:34.73
that model example in our church
00:23:34.76\00:23:36.16
where we could come and say,
00:23:36.19\00:23:37.27
hey, Steve I'm really struggling
00:23:37.30\00:23:38.74
with some thoughts in my
head and can you help me?
00:23:38.77\00:23:41.13
Yes, Mike, you know,
let's get the church together,
00:23:41.16\00:23:43.53
let's pray for Mike.
00:23:43.56\00:23:44.78
Because if we can
create a safe environment
00:23:44.81\00:23:46.76
in our churches where
people can come with their--
00:23:46.79\00:23:49.43
their dirty laundry and
not in a sensational way,
00:23:49.46\00:23:51.71
but in a sincere way to
really give you strength
00:23:51.74\00:23:55.61
and to hold you
and boaster you up.
00:23:55.64\00:23:57.73
I believe the
God's word is powerful
00:23:57.76\00:23:59.79
and prayer does
have its place, right?
00:23:59.82\00:24:01.58
Sure, of course.
00:24:01.61\00:24:02.65
And promises you know,
claming these promises.
00:24:02.68\00:24:05.17
I have another important
factor to consider in prayer,
00:24:05.20\00:24:09.55
it is the pray of the others
00:24:09.58\00:24:10.96
and I know this is
the case with all of us.
00:24:10.99\00:24:14.14
We had people praying for us
00:24:14.17\00:24:16.37
where were not
praying for ourselves.
00:24:16.40\00:24:18.14
And I know my parents
prayed all of those years
00:24:18.17\00:24:21.19
that the Lord would do whatever
it took to get my attention
00:24:21.22\00:24:23.99
that He would give
me no rest day or night.
00:24:24.02\00:24:27.17
He was-- they were
00:24:27.20\00:24:28.58
constantly giving
the Lord an invitation
00:24:28.61\00:24:31.69
and permission to go
00:24:31.72\00:24:33.21
where I was not giving the Lord
an invitation or permission.
00:24:33.24\00:24:37.82
And so He-- Tell the story--
00:24:37.85\00:24:39.56
tell the story about your dad
when he was reading your book.
00:24:39.59\00:24:42.45
When, my dad was reading
the manuscript for my book
00:24:42.48\00:24:45.67
he came across that
part and he started laughing
00:24:45.70\00:24:47.85
and I was curious as
to why he was laughing
00:24:47.88\00:24:50.35
reading my testimony.
00:24:50.38\00:24:52.04
And so I challenged him on that
00:24:52.07\00:24:53.58
and I said there is
nothing funny in there.
00:24:53.61\00:24:55.73
And he says,
well, look here he said
00:24:55.76\00:24:57.41
right here you
wrote in your testimony,
00:24:57.44\00:24:59.51
in your manuscript the Lord
gave me no rest day or night.
00:24:59.54\00:25:04.21
And I said yes, and
what so funny about that?
00:25:04.24\00:25:07.61
He said, Ronny, your mom
and I prayed for 16 years
00:25:07.64\00:25:10.66
that the Lord would give
you no rest day or night.
00:25:10.69\00:25:13.72
There is our prayer and
our answer in black and white.
00:25:13.75\00:25:16.82
Amen.
00:25:16.85\00:25:17.90
So the effectual fervent
prayer of righteous people
00:25:17.93\00:25:20.72
does avail much.
00:25:20.75\00:25:21.81
Amen.
00:25:21.84\00:25:22.88
In inner seeding for before
people dealing with this issue,
00:25:22.91\00:25:26.63
as well as any other issue.
00:25:26.66\00:25:28.27
Wow, that's says
this. Praise God.
00:25:28.30\00:25:30.85
Now as we are
getting down here--
00:25:30.88\00:25:32.70
a close here I want
to look at one more verse
00:25:32.73\00:25:34.66
which to me I thought
about this from my perspective,
00:25:34.69\00:25:38.96
it just seems that Matthew 1:21,
00:25:38.99\00:25:42.67
when we-- when we you know,
say can we pray the gay away
00:25:42.70\00:25:45.61
or maybe prayer
itself is not enough
00:25:45.64\00:25:47.47
like you said we need more,
00:25:47.50\00:25:48.53
we need to understanding,
we need education,
00:25:48.56\00:25:50.21
we need to learn from the Bible,
00:25:50.24\00:25:51.70
unrealistic expectations
can be very damaging,
00:25:51.73\00:25:55.22
but we still need to
believe in the power of God
00:25:55.25\00:25:58.62
to do what He is promised to do.
00:25:58.65\00:26:00.94
is where the angel Gabriel
spoke to Joseph about the baby
00:26:03.09\00:26:07.26
that was gonna
be born through Mary
00:26:07.29\00:26:09.62
and this verse
says the angel said
00:26:09.65\00:26:12.83
"She shall bring forth a Son,
00:26:12.86\00:26:15.55
and you shall
call His name Jesus."
00:26:15.58\00:26:18.77
And the word Jesus means
Savior and then the angel said
00:26:18.80\00:26:22.74
"For he shall save His
people from their sins."
00:26:22.77\00:26:28.46
And really the
issue is Jesus Christ.
00:26:28.49\00:26:33.70
His name means Savior.
00:26:33.73\00:26:36.05
He is the one who says, I can
save you from your sins and--
00:26:36.08\00:26:41.21
and get you out
and change your life
00:26:41.24\00:26:43.21
and make you new person.
00:26:43.24\00:26:44.64
And the issue is really
can Jesus do what His name--
00:26:44.67\00:26:48.71
what His name says?
00:26:48.74\00:26:50.54
Is He who He says He is
00:26:50.57\00:26:53.13
and there are millions of
people who can testify Him?
00:26:53.16\00:26:55.83
Yes, He can.
00:26:55.86\00:26:56.89
If we give our life to Him,
00:26:56.92\00:26:58.00
if we make the choice and
surrender everything Jesus,
00:26:58.03\00:27:01.24
He can do it.
00:27:01.27\00:27:02.63
He can save you, He can save me,
00:27:02.66\00:27:04.85
He can bring us
into the heaven--
00:27:04.88\00:27:06.71
the heaven of rest
00:27:06.74\00:27:08.47
where we can experience
salvation, deliverance,
00:27:08.50\00:27:11.69
freedom, peace and love forever.
00:27:11.72\00:27:14.30
And that is what
we are offering to you
00:27:14.33\00:27:16.81
through this book in Coming Out.
00:27:16.84\00:27:21.31
If you would like to order
00:27:21.34\00:27:22.40
the 13 part Coming Out
series for $34.95 plus shipping,
00:27:22.43\00:27:26.38
call 1-800-782-4253
00:27:26.41\00:27:29.62
or write to White
Horse Media, PO Box 1139,
00:27:29.65\00:27:32.48
Newport, Washington, 99156.
00:27:32.51\00:27:35.32
Pastor Woolsey, Dwayne
Blakely and Mike Carducci
00:27:35.35\00:27:38.00
are each available to
conduct a seminar in your area.
00:27:38.03\00:27:41.16
To schedule a
speaking engagement,
00:27:41.19\00:27:42.77
contact Coming Out Ministries
by calling 360-936-8514
00:27:42.80\00:27:48.07
or visit
comingoutministries.org.
00:27:48.10\00:27:50.66