Why are gays gay doesn't matter?
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Next on Coming Out.
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Welcome to program number
eight in the Coming Out series.
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And we've been
in quite a journey
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going through a
journey, we got more to come.
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We have been discussing about
big issues dealing with gays,
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homosexuals,
lesbians, gender issues
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and the Bible and Jesus
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and what God has to
say about this controversy.
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I'm here again with
Dwayne Blakely, Ron Woolsey.
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Pastor Ron, they are cofounders
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of a ministry called Coming Out.
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They came out of the
closet a long time ago
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and now they have come
out of what they came out of
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and they have to
chosen to come in to the Bible
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and they have a
ministry which is focused
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on bringing
clarity to these issues
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and trying to shed light
and healing and love and peace
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into people's hearts
through the love of God.
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That's what this is all about.
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So again
welcome here, gentlemen.
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Thank you. Thank you.
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I just I really appreciate
your time and your insights.
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Now let's just
start with the context
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that we find
ourselves in our society.
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Its no secrete that there are--
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I don't know what
about, maybe I should say a lot
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or many or some
boys that are growing up
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in this world that at some point
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they discover that they
are not attracted to girls
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but they're attracted to boys.
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And there are
women, girls that grow up
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when they become
either, you know, later girls
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or women puberty or
beyond when they discover
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that they're really attracted
to other girls or other women
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and there are boys
that wish they were girls
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and there are girls
that wish they were boys
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and there are those
that go through the surgery
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to make themselves what they
really believe in their hearts
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they were supposed to be
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and what's happening is
we live in an environment
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where this is
happening increasingly
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and people are asking a question
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which is why is this happening?
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You know, when they're looking
for reasons, for this trend
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and I guess the first question
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I want to ask
before we look at the why,
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is a lesson that we can
learn from the question.
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The fact that people are saying,
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you know, and asking
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and the media is looking at this
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and scientists
are looking at this,
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people are looking at this.
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You know, what can we
learn from the question,
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why is this happening?
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What do you think?
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Well, I think that
it shows immediately
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that if we are asking
it, we don't ask questions
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about people who appear to be,
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you know, normal or if we're
looking at things biblically,
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we see things through
our God's word is showing,
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heterosexuality is being
God's plan throughout His word
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and so it immediately
indicates that we have
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some kind of an
abnormality on hand
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and so now we want to know why.
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Yeah, we have
to figure this out.
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Yeah. What's going on?
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It shows things are
not normal. That's right.
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Pastor Ron, has
anyone ever asked you
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why are you
attracted to your wife?
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No.
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Well, I suppose gay people have.
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There are friends
of mine from the past,
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they can't believe that
I'm the person I am today
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and they wonder why,
why would you go for a woman
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when, you know, we
knew you the way you were.
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But, you know,
in general society
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why don't ask why a man
is attracted to his wife
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or why men are
attracted to women
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or women attracted to men.
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It's when it
comes to the gay issue
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we start to
trying to figure out why.
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And certainly that does
as you suggested it does
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suggest that there
is an automatic thought
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that it's not normal or
they wouldn't be asking why.
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Right, that's right.
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Nobody has ever asked me
why I'm attracted to my wife
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or when I was a
teenager why I like girls.
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I did have problems
with controlling my desires
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before I became Christian
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and, you know, the
battle is still on.
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Certainly not out of the woods
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where there is
temptations all the time.
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But, you know, people don't ask
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why do you need to
go to sleep at night
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or why do you
need to drink water
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or why are boys
attracted to girls.
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But now they're asking
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why is all of this
gender confusion going on,
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and to me the
question itself shows
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that something is not normal
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and people are
struggling to find answers.
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Right.
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Now, when we go
to the next question
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dealing with the
answers or at least the factors
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or the potential
answers, answers,
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what are the options
that people are giving today
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as to the
reasons for this trend?
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It's all over the map,
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because obviously we
don't go to Gods word
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and you can come up
with all kinds of things.
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Such as. One being
I was born that way.
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So for me if you look
at my prenatal influence
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and postnatal
abuse you would come up
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with probable a conclusion
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of being conditionally impressed
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to have same sex attraction
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and so based on that it
would be my justification.
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Okay, so the genetic
factor. And you haven't--
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Pastor Ron, you told me
that scientist have studied,
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tells a little bit
about that scientists
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have studied the genes
and are they concluding that
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it really is--
there is a gay gene
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or isn't there a gay
gene, or the jury still out?
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Well, there have been studies
that have been discovered
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to have them done with the bias,
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without-- which
were not truly scientific
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in which they did
report that it was genetic
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and so forth but when science
goes in without an agenda
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and truly look
scientifically at the issue
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like the identical twin
studies is gone on for decades.
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The twins share the same
DNA so if one twin is gay,
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you would expect
the other one to be gay.
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If it were genetic
but the percentage of that
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happening is
roughly around seven percent
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rather than 100 percent.
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So that's studying
itself has debunks that theory.
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However I know
Wayne feels the same way.
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I for years believed
that I was just born this way,
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before I did any research,
before I studied my own life
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and before I studied Gods word.
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I believe I was born that way,
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but looking back on my life
there are all kinds of factors
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that I could put the blame on.
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I was sexually molested
when I was four years old
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by a farmhand that
totally derailed me
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from that day forward.
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I had wild fantasies
and wild imaginations
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and I never shared
any of that with anyone.
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That had I big
affect and I blame that.
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I was victimized
repeatedly in the grade school.
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I was emotionally
abused by my father,
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who praise the
Lord was converted in
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and he died as the
best friend of mine.
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There were all kinds
of things I could blame,
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when I went through my divorce,
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because I came out of the closet
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and we needed a gay life.
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My wife and I
did some counseling
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with Christians
pastors and psychiatrist
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and some of them told
her to just divorce this man,
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get on with your life
that kind can never change.
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That's when I
started blaming God himself
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and may forgive me for
doing that but for years.
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He has forgiven you.
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I blamed God for
making me that way
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and not being able to change
me or not wanting to change me
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and I think
that's what hurt me most
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was to think
that God didn't care
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and didn't want to change me.
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So I think many people blame God
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when they say I was born
this way they're blaming God.
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When they say
God made me this way,
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they're blaming God.
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Yeah, I found I
was blaming God a lot.
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You know, and
people that I hear say
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you know God made me this way.
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But God really
didn't make us this way,
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because we need to
think back at the beginning
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and recognize
that when God created
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Adam and Eve, they were
the only two perfect people
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that He created.
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Once sin took place
and we began to be born,
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we have-- we were
born with of fallen nature
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and we have the sins
of our fathers on us.
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That's right.
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That's right, so, okay so--,
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they are Pastor Ron, and Wayne,
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you would say that
an accurate consensus
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is really it's
probably not in the genes,
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its more in the environment,
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its more in mom, dad abuse,
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you know these kind of factors
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that are growing up
in a dysfunctional home.
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At least we know
that in many cases
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those are contributing factors.
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I think there's another
factor which would be just,
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you know, Hollywood,
people watch talk show host
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that they really
like or football players
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and you know
musicians and they--
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they then come out of
a closet they openly met
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that they're gay
and people look at that
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and they say you know,
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maybe that's
something I ought to try.
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Sure.
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You mentioned
something about the--
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Yes, I-- That this
is the drug of, of--
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The experimental
drug of this age,
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it's the lower of the forbidden
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that's the term
that you shared with me,
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but that's really
it, this is a taboo area
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and society tends
to push at the fence.
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Well, this is a fence
post, and they are pushing it
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there's it's
another area to experiment.
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But what people don't realize
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is how highly
addictive homosexuality is,
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it's seen as addictive--
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as far we have
the bondage of sin.
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You know, they
say, try you'll like it
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and so there's a song out
there called "I kissed a girl,"
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and I think a lot of
girls listen to that song
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and they think hey,
you know, why not try.
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Yeah, and then when you try it
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they say you try
it, you'll like it
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and then once you try
it, it's like the smoking,
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you start smoking,
you start drinking,
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you start checking out
that kind of sexuality.
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And before you
know it, you are hooked.
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When I worked in the years
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that I worked in
the prostitution,
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I had many heterosexual men
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that were calling me
as a result of my add.
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It was because they had reached
the point in their marriage
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that it didn't have
the spark that it had
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when a man and a
woman first meet each other
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and so what they were looking
for was the spirit of adventure
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and took aloud
and do you something--
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You know and for some
they would turn around
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and decide oh, I
think I'm gay now.
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So, anyway whatever the reason
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or the contributing
factors, let's go to the Bible,
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let's turn into the Bible
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and let the Bible shed
some light on this topic
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because that's what
we really want to do is
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you know the world looks
00:11:23.60\00:11:24.63
at a different perspective
people look at their emotions,
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their hearts
and their struggles.
00:11:26.83\00:11:28.65
But this is the
clarifying book that sheds light
00:11:28.68\00:11:34.57
into our
experience and helps us,
00:11:34.60\00:11:36.77
and helps us to
take wise choices.
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Right, you know you
mentioned the word heart
00:11:39.28\00:11:41.62
and it takes me
immediately to a verse
00:11:41.65\00:11:44.28
that says,
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"The heart is
deceitful above all things,
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and desperately
wicked, who can know it?"
00:11:49.41\00:11:53.27
So that shows me that our hearts
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can be influenced
to gain our feelings
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can speak to our
hearts and make us think that,
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that's the truth
that we need to live by.
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And we can-- we can--
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what our hearts want to do,
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we can then grab
on to the potential
00:12:05.72\00:12:09.31
why reasons and
excuses whether God did it
00:12:09.34\00:12:12.28
or the genes or
you know I was abused
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or whatever it is as an excuse
00:12:14.82\00:12:18.45
and that's where we want
to focus on the blame game
00:12:18.48\00:12:21.05
that the blame that
the issue of blaming
00:12:21.08\00:12:24.11
has been a
problem for a long time.
00:12:24.14\00:12:26.07
It really goes back
to the Garden of Eden,
00:12:26.10\00:12:27.54
it actually
goes back to Lucifer.
00:12:27.57\00:12:28.75
Lucifer blamed God
and it wasn't God's fault.
00:12:28.78\00:12:31.67
And then when Adam, Adam
and Eve were specifically told
00:12:31.70\00:12:34.54
in the Garden of
Eden in Genesis Chapter 2,
00:12:34.57\00:12:37.57
"They that were not to
eat from the forbidden fruit,"
00:12:37.60\00:12:40.62
but they did.
00:12:40.65\00:12:42.19
You know Eve was seduced.
00:12:42.22\00:12:43.62
She was tempted at the
tree by a slick serpent
00:12:43.65\00:12:47.36
who offered her
a great experience,
00:12:47.39\00:12:50.16
a wonderful experience.
00:12:50.19\00:12:51.22
This will be great, just
you know don't listen to God,
00:12:51.25\00:12:53.49
eat this fruit I can talk now,
00:12:53.52\00:12:55.71
the serpent mind
have said look what,
00:12:55.74\00:12:57.19
what-- if I'm just
a snake and I can talk
00:12:57.22\00:12:59.45
think of what this
fruit will do for you, Eve.
00:12:59.48\00:13:01.88
The bible doesn't
gives us all the dialog,
00:13:01.91\00:13:03.73
some of the dialog,
maybe that was all the dialog.
00:13:03.76\00:13:06.18
But anyway Eve was--
00:13:06.21\00:13:07.63
she was
tricked, she was seduced.
00:13:07.66\00:13:08.88
She thought it was for--
Yeah, cost was to doubt God.
00:13:08.91\00:13:10.58
Yes, she doubted
God, and she thought
00:13:10.61\00:13:12.55
this was gonna be
great and she ate the fruit
00:13:12.58\00:13:15.78
and then she took it to Adam,
00:13:15.81\00:13:17.30
she became the tempter
herself, offered it to Adam.
00:13:17.33\00:13:20.14
He ate, he knew
what he was doing,
00:13:20.17\00:13:21.54
he choose his
wife above the Lord,
00:13:21.57\00:13:24.40
and then the
significant thing is the point
00:13:24.43\00:13:26.64
that I want to focus on
is that after they sinned
00:13:26.67\00:13:29.74
God came to them in the garden
00:13:29.77\00:13:31.11
and said Adam, what did you do?
00:13:31.14\00:13:33.46
And Adam said, he said,
00:13:33.49\00:13:35.80
the woman that
you gave to be with me
00:13:35.83\00:13:39.17
she tempted me and I ate.
00:13:39.20\00:13:40.98
So she is
blaming-- he is blaming God
00:13:41.01\00:13:44.59
and his wife and then God
said to Eve, simple question.
00:13:44.62\00:13:48.82
Did you do what I
told you not to do?
00:13:48.85\00:13:51.55
And she said the serpent,
00:13:51.58\00:13:54.66
you know, he
tempted me and I ate.
00:13:54.69\00:13:57.45
So what's happening
is they're now in sin
00:13:57.48\00:14:00.18
and because of their
sin, they are blaming,
00:14:00.21\00:14:03.53
they're excusing their actions
00:14:03.56\00:14:06.38
and Adam blamed
God and the woman,
00:14:06.41\00:14:08.85
and the woman blamed the
serpent and haven't we all,
00:14:08.88\00:14:12.32
whether its this issue
or any other temptation
00:14:12.35\00:14:15.96
and fall haven't we all
been repeating their history.
00:14:15.99\00:14:20.71
Now we're in a
mess. That's right.
00:14:20.74\00:14:22.33
Now blame game is being
going on for 6,000 years
00:14:22.36\00:14:24.59
and even when we're Christians,
00:14:24.62\00:14:26.53
we still tend to
fall into that trap
00:14:26.56\00:14:29.36
when we make mistakes.
00:14:29.39\00:14:31.37
Our knee jerk reaction
is to come up with an excuse
00:14:31.40\00:14:35.94
and quite often
it's the nearest person.
00:14:35.97\00:14:38.35
That's right.
00:14:38.38\00:14:39.41
You know, I've seen that
in my own life many times
00:14:39.44\00:14:41.09
and I'm sure we all having a--
00:14:41.12\00:14:42.32
you know my kids
bless my children,
00:14:42.35\00:14:44.18
I love my kids so
much, and they're good kids
00:14:44.21\00:14:47.13
all things considering,
by the grace of God,
00:14:47.16\00:14:50.23
but anyway Abby, will
often say you know Seth,
00:14:50.26\00:14:52.94
my buddy was Seth, Seth he--
00:14:52.97\00:14:54.80
and then Seth will say but
Abby, and its just typical,
00:14:54.83\00:14:58.84
its typical the human nature
00:14:58.87\00:15:00.17
whether its gay issue, or
whether its whatever issue.
00:15:00.20\00:15:03.35
This one is just
self blame, you know.
00:15:03.38\00:15:05.93
Yeah, we can hate ourselves,
00:15:05.96\00:15:07.81
or what you know we can
blame all kinds of things.
00:15:07.84\00:15:10.99
So again let's go
back to the Bible.
00:15:11.02\00:15:12.73
Pastor Ron, isn't
there a verse about excuses
00:15:12.76\00:15:16.14
that specifically apply
to this issue in Romans?
00:15:16.17\00:15:19.59
Well, in Romans, with first
of all in 2 Thessalonians 2:7,
00:15:19.62\00:15:24.29
we read about the
mystery of inequity,
00:15:24.32\00:15:28.09
to really to-- to
be able to explain sin
00:15:28.12\00:15:33.71
would be too
excuse it or justify it
00:15:33.74\00:15:36.78
and we read in Romans Chapter 1
00:15:36.81\00:15:40.25
we were discussing this
in lengthy the other day
00:15:40.28\00:15:42.95
and another program about
woman leaving the natural use,
00:15:42.98\00:15:50.75
woman with
woman and men with men
00:15:50.78\00:15:53.24
burning in their
lust one toward another
00:15:53.27\00:15:55.45
but in Roman 1:20
it tells us plainly
00:15:55.48\00:15:59.26
that they are without excuse.
00:15:59.29\00:16:03.10
So there really
is no excuse for sin.
00:16:03.13\00:16:06.43
It is the mystery of in equity.
00:16:06.46\00:16:10.12
And ultimately
choice is involved.
00:16:10.15\00:16:12.50
This is why, Steve I have found
00:16:12.53\00:16:15.08
or I have not found in the Bible
00:16:15.11\00:16:17.51
that there is any information
to explain sin or to,
00:16:17.54\00:16:24.77
you know, the cause of it.
00:16:24.80\00:16:26.21
Whatever the Bible
from cover to cover
00:16:26.24\00:16:28.40
really seems to be
dealing with the solution,
00:16:28.43\00:16:31.63
there really is no excuse.
00:16:31.66\00:16:34.08
Yeah, and this
is a powerful text
00:16:34.11\00:16:35.28
because Romans 1:26,
27 deals specifically
00:16:35.31\00:16:38.36
with this issue
that we're talking about.
00:16:38.39\00:16:40.12
You know men
burning in their desires
00:16:40.15\00:16:42.36
for men and woman with woman
00:16:42.39\00:16:43.91
there is actually 24 sins
listed here not just those
00:16:43.94\00:16:47.51
but many others and
at least a half of them
00:16:47.54\00:16:50.26
or probably most of them
apply to all of us somewhere
00:16:50.29\00:16:53.67
but yet in the
midst of all of these--
00:16:53.70\00:16:55.45
this list is point
blank straightforward,
00:16:55.48\00:16:58.34
you know, no compromise
list that God gives us
00:16:58.37\00:17:01.87
of different sins and
says like you mention, Ron.
00:17:01.90\00:17:04.85
Pastor Ron, in verse 20 it
says they are without excuse.
00:17:04.88\00:17:07.63
So regardless of the temptations
00:17:07.66\00:17:10.06
or the factors or the,
00:17:10.09\00:17:12.49
you know, mysterious causes
going on behind the scenes,
00:17:12.52\00:17:16.76
still sin is
mysterious and ultimately
00:17:16.79\00:17:20.89
there is a choice
that we have to make.
00:17:20.92\00:17:22.81
And if we choose to go along
with what we know to be wrong,
00:17:22.84\00:17:28.56
there is no excuse for that.
00:17:28.59\00:17:32.02
And isn't that really
a part of the big issue
00:17:32.05\00:17:34.59
is to accept that fact?
00:17:34.62\00:17:36.36
Right.
00:17:36.39\00:17:37.52
Yeah, and
looking back at my life,
00:17:37.55\00:17:40.72
I can trace what happened to me.
00:17:40.75\00:17:43.16
Dwayne can trace what happened.
00:17:43.19\00:17:45.47
So we have explanation,
but explanation is not excuse
00:17:45.50\00:17:50.71
because
explanation still throughout
00:17:50.74\00:17:54.75
all of our experiences, we
still had to choose to give in,
00:17:54.78\00:17:59.44
choose to yield
to that temptation,
00:17:59.47\00:18:02.40
choose to go
into that lifestyle.
00:18:02.43\00:18:05.06
So ultimately the
choice, it is a matter of choice
00:18:05.09\00:18:08.72
and especially, and I
know this is not going to be
00:18:08.75\00:18:12.84
a popular
statement, its not in harmony
00:18:12.87\00:18:15.64
with conventional thinking
or political correctness
00:18:15.67\00:18:20.25
but if a person really
feels that they were born gay,
00:18:20.28\00:18:25.00
and the Lord
comes along and says
00:18:25.03\00:18:26.45
well, you can be born again.
00:18:26.48\00:18:29.13
Now that person is
faced with a choice.
00:18:29.16\00:18:31.30
Yes. Yes.
00:18:31.33\00:18:32.36
And if they have
felt all their lives
00:18:32.39\00:18:35.07
it was not a matter of choice
and then the word comes along
00:18:35.10\00:18:38.57
and says but you
can be born again.
00:18:38.60\00:18:40.52
Good point. Yeah.
00:18:40.55\00:18:41.92
Now they're faced with choice
from that day and forever more
00:18:41.95\00:18:45.56
they must admit it's a choice.
00:18:45.59\00:18:48.54
You know, it just
leads to me another text.
00:18:48.57\00:18:49.87
Yeah.
00:18:49.90\00:18:50.93
In Exodus 25 where it says,
God says, I'm a jealous God
00:18:50.96\00:18:57.27
visiting the
iniquity of the fathers
00:18:57.30\00:18:59.77
upon the children to the
third and fourth generations
00:18:59.80\00:19:02.96
of those who hate me.
00:19:02.99\00:19:04.97
So there is a factor
00:19:05.00\00:19:07.39
where what the
parents do affects the kids
00:19:07.42\00:19:09.46
but even when
those kids grow up,
00:19:09.49\00:19:11.83
they still have
to make a choice.
00:19:11.86\00:19:13.85
And God doesn't
hold us accountable
00:19:13.88\00:19:15.92
for the environmental factors.
00:19:15.95\00:19:18.37
Exactly.
00:19:18.40\00:19:19.88
Even if the genetics
were there or if they're there
00:19:19.91\00:19:23.48
or whatever the
parental situation is,
00:19:23.51\00:19:26.50
God ultimately holds us
responsible for the choice.
00:19:26.53\00:19:29.09
And like you said if
we, we have to choose
00:19:29.12\00:19:32.07
to get into this lifestyle
00:19:32.10\00:19:34.08
and we have to make
a choice to get out.
00:19:34.11\00:19:36.98
Yeah.
00:19:37.01\00:19:38.04
You know I'm reminded
of Joyce Meyer's ministries
00:19:38.07\00:19:42.06
and everyone once in a while
sure share about her childhood
00:19:42.09\00:19:46.53
and before she was 15 years old,
00:19:46.56\00:19:48.45
her father had abused her,
00:19:48.48\00:19:50.59
sexually abused
her over 200 times.
00:19:50.62\00:19:52.61
Wow.
00:19:52.64\00:19:53.67
And she shares that, you
know, if God can reach me
00:19:53.70\00:19:57.51
and put me in a
position of ministry today
00:19:57.54\00:20:00.26
with the bitterness and
hurt that I had on my heart,
00:20:00.29\00:20:03.46
He can reach
anybody with any cultivated
00:20:03.49\00:20:05.66
or hereditary sin anywhere.
00:20:05.69\00:20:08.62
Wow. Yeah, it's
a beautiful story.
00:20:08.65\00:20:12.16
Yeah, just frightening to think
00:20:12.19\00:20:13.23
what's happening to
kids these days and--
00:20:13.26\00:20:16.38
You know, in this text
00:20:16.41\00:20:17.48
that you were just reading
from the second commandment,
00:20:17.51\00:20:21.73
it's interesting to me that
that principle works in reverse
00:20:21.76\00:20:26.76
when a person is converted.
00:20:26.79\00:20:29.01
Now he can start
that trend upward
00:20:29.04\00:20:32.17
under the third
and fourth generation
00:20:32.20\00:20:34.20
by his influence and
passing on to his children
00:20:34.23\00:20:37.65
positive and godly
trades and principles--
00:20:37.68\00:20:41.51
That
consequences work both ways.
00:20:41.54\00:20:43.32
Yes.
00:20:43.35\00:20:44.38
Now Pastor Ron,
is there's a verse
00:20:44.41\00:20:45.46
you shared with me earlier
00:20:45.49\00:20:47.06
from Jeremiah
about the pivotal point.
00:20:47.09\00:20:51.31
If we choose to go into a
lifestyle or any temptation
00:20:51.34\00:20:55.74
then we have to
make a choice to get out.
00:20:55.77\00:20:58.80
And what are those
choices that we have to make
00:20:58.83\00:21:01.04
is near verse in
Jeremiah about that?
00:21:01.07\00:21:02.92
Yes, and you know
for three years the Lord,
00:21:02.95\00:21:06.06
I'm sure it was a Lord
visiting me in the dream
00:21:06.09\00:21:08.93
in which I live
through the coming of a Jesus
00:21:08.96\00:21:12.58
as a lost person.
00:21:12.61\00:21:14.46
And I resisted
that but eventually
00:21:14.49\00:21:16.78
I got to the point
where I stopped blaming God,
00:21:16.81\00:21:20.11
realizing that I
can keep on blaming God,
00:21:20.14\00:21:23.07
until He does come
in the clouds of glory
00:21:23.10\00:21:24.66
I'm still lost.
00:21:24.69\00:21:26.31
And at that point my
consciences kicked in
00:21:26.34\00:21:29.16
and what I later
learned in Jeremiah 3
00:21:29.19\00:21:33.21
that God says "Only
acknowledge is thy iniquity."
00:21:33.24\00:21:36.61
Thy meaning yours.
00:21:36.64\00:21:37.67
Your iniquity not
everyone else's which is blame.
00:21:37.70\00:21:40.49
I acknowledge your iniquity
00:21:40.52\00:21:42.00
and I will heal
your backsliding.
00:21:42.03\00:21:45.05
And that was a very powerful
and pivot able text for me.
00:21:45.08\00:21:48.35
Well, isn't that the
battle, I mean that we all have,
00:21:48.38\00:21:51.17
if we be yield it to temptation
and we've gone was sin.
00:21:51.20\00:21:53.59
Adam and Eve did the same thing.
00:21:53.62\00:21:55.34
The battle inside of our
heads is whether we are willing
00:21:55.37\00:21:59.52
to really be
honest with ourselves,
00:21:59.55\00:22:01.85
with our
consciences and with God
00:22:01.88\00:22:04.13
and to acknowledge our sin
00:22:04.16\00:22:07.32
and to
recognize that sin is sin.
00:22:07.35\00:22:11.13
You know, I think
about Adam and Eve,
00:22:11.16\00:22:12.46
and Adam really just
should have responded Lord
00:22:12.49\00:22:15.05
when He said did you do it?
00:22:15.08\00:22:16.32
He should have
said, I did and I'm sorry.
00:22:16.35\00:22:19.90
And same thing with
Eve, I did and I'm sorry.
00:22:19.93\00:22:23.03
And that's the
battle is to be willing
00:22:23.06\00:22:25.97
to make that acknowledgement
00:22:26.00\00:22:29.41
and that humbling of our hearts.
00:22:29.44\00:22:31.77
Yeah, you know the upside
00:22:31.80\00:22:32.98
and the most beautiful
thing about all of this
00:22:33.01\00:22:36.30
is that Jesus knows
the pain on your heart.
00:22:36.33\00:22:39.93
He knows what
conditions you've been through
00:22:39.96\00:22:42.42
and yet He offers to
you His strength, His power
00:22:42.45\00:22:46.40
if you're surrendering to Him
and turn your life over to Him,
00:22:46.43\00:22:50.39
He will wash you with His blood,
00:22:50.42\00:22:52.33
He will make you
whiter than snow,
00:22:52.36\00:22:54.31
He will give you a fresh start,
He puts hope in your heart,
00:22:54.34\00:22:57.44
He offers you redemption,
it is a beautiful thing.
00:22:57.47\00:23:00.25
Hallelujah.
It's a healing thing.
00:23:00.28\00:23:02.02
Yeah, it's hard to admit our sin
00:23:02.05\00:23:04.34
and you know--
I know from myself
00:23:04.37\00:23:05.75
and I'm sure with
others the feeling is
00:23:05.78\00:23:08.01
if you
acknowledge that this is sin
00:23:08.04\00:23:11.64
you're entering
darkness that's what you think,
00:23:11.67\00:23:13.61
I can't admit that
because I admit this I'm lost.
00:23:13.64\00:23:17.67
It's to dark but
the amazing truth is
00:23:17.70\00:23:21.46
that when we acknowledge
our sin for what it is--
00:23:21.49\00:23:25.86
that's right, as
somebody once said,
00:23:25.89\00:23:28.72
honesty is the path to peace.
00:23:28.75\00:23:32.74
And purity and the good
news is that God loves us,
00:23:32.77\00:23:36.04
He know what we've done. Yeah.
00:23:36.07\00:23:37.93
It's not a
revelation to Him, and we just--
00:23:37.96\00:23:40.69
We just waiting.
00:23:40.72\00:23:41.75
That's right, so if we
admit it and humble ourselves
00:23:41.78\00:23:44.98
and make the
choice to come back to Him
00:23:45.01\00:23:47.30
and to give our lives to Him
00:23:47.33\00:23:48.66
we have the assurance that
He will forgive, He loves us.
00:23:48.69\00:23:53.31
Admit and submit.
00:23:53.34\00:23:54.56
That's right,
admit and submit, good.
00:23:54.59\00:23:57.17
This whole text tells me
00:23:57.20\00:23:59.67
that God wants us to acknowledge
00:23:59.70\00:24:01.63
that what we're
dealing with is a sin issue.
00:24:01.66\00:24:04.51
And you know He does
not promise to save us
00:24:04.54\00:24:07.96
from an acceptable
alternative lifestyle.
00:24:07.99\00:24:11.92
Jesus came to say
this from our sins
00:24:11.95\00:24:13.84
and so He said if
you will acknowledge
00:24:13.87\00:24:15.73
this is a sin
issue I can help you
00:24:15.76\00:24:17.79
but otherwise I have
to stand by and wait.
00:24:17.82\00:24:20.28
Yeah, that's right, and
that's where all the powers
00:24:20.31\00:24:23.11
of Lucifer and
self justification
00:24:23.14\00:24:27.12
because that's
what he did in heaven.
00:24:27.15\00:24:28.71
He justified himself,
he refuse to humble himself
00:24:28.74\00:24:31.77
and finally got kicked out.
00:24:31.80\00:24:33.29
And that power of
self justification
00:24:33.32\00:24:37.43
is working within all of us.
00:24:37.46\00:24:38.86
We see it in Adam and Eve
00:24:38.89\00:24:40.28
its been going on
down through out history
00:24:40.31\00:24:42.16
and again that
is where the battle
00:24:42.19\00:24:43.71
is inside of my heart,
my mind all of our hearts
00:24:43.74\00:24:47.69
are we willing to
face up to the sin issue
00:24:47.72\00:24:53.02
and humble ourselves
and ask God to save us
00:24:53.05\00:24:57.38
from our own selves in our sins.
00:24:57.41\00:25:00.24
He is a very patient
God, you know He waited for me
00:25:00.27\00:25:03.08
for nearly 40 years and you know
00:25:03.11\00:25:05.27
as long as you have
breath in your body,
00:25:05.30\00:25:08.10
you know, God is there for you
00:25:08.13\00:25:10.10
to surrender
your life over to Him.
00:25:10.13\00:25:11.58
Amen.
00:25:11.61\00:25:12.65
And your life is
a testimony to them.
00:25:12.68\00:25:13.91
Yeah, it's a big radical--
00:25:13.94\00:25:15.01
I mean all of our
lives are testimonies
00:25:15.04\00:25:19.36
to the grace of God.
00:25:19.39\00:25:21.09
You know sometime people think
00:25:21.12\00:25:22.22
well you know I
would never do that
00:25:22.25\00:25:23.96
but you've hear the phrase
00:25:23.99\00:25:25.38
"but for the grace
of God, there go I."
00:25:25.41\00:25:27.37
And if we were in
that person shoes,
00:25:27.40\00:25:29.94
growing up the way they grew up
00:25:29.97\00:25:31.33
influence the way
they were influenced,
00:25:31.36\00:25:33.76
you know we would-- we
might make the same choices.
00:25:33.79\00:25:37.48
So again but choice is the key
00:25:37.51\00:25:39.80
but chose whatever
the background to go in
00:25:39.83\00:25:42.66
and we can choose to get out.
00:25:42.69\00:25:45.48
And once who make the choice
00:25:45.51\00:25:47.54
that's where we have
to start relying upon
00:25:47.57\00:25:50.26
someone up there who
can really get us out
00:25:50.29\00:25:54.81
because we can't
get out ourselves.
00:25:54.84\00:25:56.60
And our next
program is gonna deal
00:25:56.63\00:25:58.77
with the healing
process more directly
00:25:58.80\00:26:01.41
but I'd like to close
00:26:01.44\00:26:02.47
we have just a
little bit of time left.
00:26:02.50\00:26:03.95
I'd like to close with something
00:26:03.98\00:26:06.33
that Jesus said
in Luke Chapter 4
00:26:06.36\00:26:09.47
one of Jesus talks in
a town called Nazareth.
00:26:09.50\00:26:14.36
It says that the book,
the Bible was delivered to him
00:26:14.39\00:26:17.12
and he read in the
synagogue these words.
00:26:17.15\00:26:20.63
Luke 4:18 Jesus said
00:26:20.66\00:26:21.94
"The Spirit of
the Lord is upon me,
00:26:21.97\00:26:24.24
because he has
anointed me to preach
00:26:24.27\00:26:26.65
the good news to the poor,
00:26:26.68\00:26:28.13
he has sent me to
heal the brokenhearted,
00:26:28.16\00:26:31.05
to preach
deliverance to the captives,
00:26:31.08\00:26:33.41
and the recovering
of sight to the blind,
00:26:33.44\00:26:37.65
and to set at liberty
those who are bruised."
00:26:37.68\00:26:40.47
Jesus said this is His
mission. His mission is to heal.
00:26:40.50\00:26:44.48
He came to heal
the brokenhearted,
00:26:44.51\00:26:46.10
He came to set
the captives free,
00:26:46.13\00:26:47.59
He came to open
the eyes of the blind,
00:26:47.62\00:26:49.57
He came to love
and to heal to those
00:26:49.60\00:26:52.10
who are wounded by this world
00:26:52.13\00:26:53.76
and by their own
choices to go into sin
00:26:53.79\00:26:56.67
and that what this is all about.
00:26:56.70\00:26:58.12
Our next program will
deal more, more in detail
00:26:58.15\00:27:00.98
with the power of the
healer that we want you to know,
00:27:01.01\00:27:03.02
whatever your
past whatever your sin,
00:27:03.05\00:27:04.59
whatever your struggle
that Jesus Christ loves you
00:27:04.62\00:27:07.21
and He is available to you,
00:27:07.24\00:27:08.43
to heal your heart
and to change your life.
00:27:08.46\00:27:11.33
Amen.
00:27:11.36\00:27:12.40
We will be back
with another program
00:27:12.43\00:27:14.20
on Coming Out to
focus on that Healer.
00:27:14.23\00:27:19.80
If you would like to order
the 13 part Coming Out series
00:27:19.83\00:27:22.65
for $34.95 plus
shipping, call 1-800-782-4253
00:27:22.68\00:27:27.81
or write to White
Horse Media, PO Box 1139,
00:27:27.84\00:27:30.94
Newport, Washington, 99156.
00:27:30.97\00:27:33.81
Pastor Ron
Woolsey, Dwayne Blakely
00:27:33.84\00:27:35.58
and Mike Carducci
are each available
00:27:35.61\00:27:37.23
to conduct a
seminar in your area.
00:27:37.26\00:27:39.54
To schedule a
speaking engagement
00:27:39.57\00:27:41.21
contact Coming Out Ministries
00:27:41.24\00:27:42.74
by calling 360-936-8514,
00:27:42.77\00:27:46.48
or visit
comingoutministries.org.
00:27:46.51\00:27:48.80