Love, lust,
Hollywood, God, and you,
00:00:09.57\00:00:14.12
that's our topic
next on Coming Out.
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Welcome to part
five of Coming Out.
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I'm here with Pastor Ron
Woolsey and Wayne Blakely,
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two of the cofounders
of Coming Out ministries.
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We have been
discussing a variety of issues.
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It's no secret that
letters and it's a little,
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I guess it's an acronym
or it's a sequence of letters
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LGBTQ are being
read around the world.
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You can see
them on the internet,
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people read them in textbooks,
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they're being
discussed in the media,
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in books, novels, talk shows.
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These letters mean
L stands for lesbian,
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G stands for gay, B is bisexual,
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T is transgender,
and Q is questioning.
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A lot of people are
questioning these days
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and at the heart
of this controversy,
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at least one of
the biggest issues
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of all concerning
the appropriateness
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or inappropriateness
or what's right
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and what's wrong with
these kind of activities
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and movements is
the issue of love.
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The title of our program
today is called "I Love You?"
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And we're here to
discuss what love is about,
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the nature of love,
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some of the
controversies surrounding love
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and what really is true
love, based upon an ancient book
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which we believe
in, which is the Bible.
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Gentlemen, again
thank you for being here.
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Thank you. This
has been great so far.
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I've just
appreciated your stories,
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you've been
telling me your stories,
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and now we want
to talk about love.
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Love is a word
that's tossed around a lot.
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I'm married and I love
my wife, I love my children.
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I also love to go running.
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One of our camera operators
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who's listening to this
just said a little bit ago,
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"I overheard her say
that she loves her hair".
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I'm assuming that it
was a good hair day for her.
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You know, people love chocolate.
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We use the word
love all kinds of ways.
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But we really
need to understand,
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at least according to the Bible
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what love is really
all about, don't you agree?
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Yes.
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And, Pastor Ron, you told
me just today, earlier today
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that during the
time when you were,
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after you had
come out of the closet
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and had gone into a openly
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homosexual
relationship with a man,
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you told me honestly
that you love that man.
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So I want you just to tell me,
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you know, clarify
that for me, you know.
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Some people would say, well,
that couldn't be real love.
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But, you know,
could it be real love?
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Well, sure it can be real love.
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Actually during my
time in the gay life
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I had three
lifetime relationships.
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Okay, three lifetime.
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That's right, three
lifetime relationships
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and I loved each
one of them, you know.
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I mean, that was my ultimate
love experience temporarily.
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In the last situation
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we were very much
in love with each other
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and we were emotionally bonded,
we were physically bonded.
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The element that was missing
of course was the spiritual.
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And as I began searching
and studying God's word
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and the spirituality
began developing within me,
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that created a
void between us in a way
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because he was not and I was
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and I learned
to love Jesus more.
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And that's what pulled
me out of that relationship,
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but even then, Steve, in
ending that relationship,
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it was an extremely
traumatic experience
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because we
dearly loved each other.
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I mean, it was true
love, but it was misplaced.
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We were loving the wrong people.
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We were not in
harmony with God's will.
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I think this is what Satan does.
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He takes something beautiful
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and he attaches it to
something that is wrong,
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and he uses something
God created in the wrong way
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to bring great unhappiness
and sadness and trauma.
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And that's what
happened in my situation.
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And that story is in your book,
the book that you've written.
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Yes, and that's one reason
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that this young
man just went berserk
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when we were going
through our separation
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because we loved
each other so much.
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And he felt he was
being totally abandoned.
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And he-- It was as if he
was possessed by seven demons,
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and he attacked me and
almost killed me in the process.
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It doesn't sound like love.
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I mean, he was desperate.
He did not want to let go.
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And, Wayne,
speaking of desperate
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and speaking of love,
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share what you told me
earlier, your quest for love.
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Right.
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Well, I was rejected
by both birth parents.
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And so early on I
was really floundering
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and not knowing
what love really meant.
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And everyone wants to matter,
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they want to belong,
they want to be loved.
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And so I began a search
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and I began to find
that physical connection
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was what I was
beginning to interpret as love.
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It was very emotional.
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So I thought
that if I was engaging
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in physical affection
or in sex with someone
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that it translated to mean love.
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But of course as
the world largely knows
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that you can be
taken for granted,
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you can be rejected,
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you know, as soon as the
act is actually even over,
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you've actually
been used not loved.
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So I arrived with
a great confusion,
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I didn't
understand the love of God.
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I read about it,
but I hadn't made it
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a practical
application to my life.
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So for years and years
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I kept looking for
love in the wrong places,
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and till I met Jesus Christ
one day who proposed to me
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that I needed
to get to know Him.
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Well, it sounds like
a marriage relationship,
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He proposed to
you. Yeah, absolutely.
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And just to
clarify I'm sure that,
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you know, these
issues searching for love,
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wanting love, misplaced love,
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this doesn't
only apply to the gay,
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lesbian, transgender community.
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This applies to all of us,
how many people are out there
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that are looking for
love in the wrong place.
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And, you know,
we can get confused
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about the nature of love,
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we can experience lust
and we can call it love.
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We're just-- I
think we're just pretty
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messed up down here
in this fallen world.
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We're all confused,
and we need some clarity.
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And the good news is that
there is clarity in this book,
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in this ancient book.
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This is the basis of everything
that we're doing here.
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We're not ashamed
of that. That's right.
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That we believe in the Bible
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and we believe the
Bible is a good book.
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Absolutely. It is
a clarifying book.
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It is a book that will help us
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in the struggles that we are in,
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and ultimately it will help
us to get to a wonderful place
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which is where we all
want to ultimately go.
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Yeah. This is life sustaining.
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That's right, that's right.
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It's like an umbilical cord for,
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you know, a fetus getting
that life from the mother.
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This is really
like an umbilical cord
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giving us life and
information from God.
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Now let's talk
about God and love.
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Wayne, I think you had a text
you wanted to share with us.
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Yeah, I think 1
John 4:8 tells us that
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"He who does not love does
not know God, for God is love."
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So I think again
right here it shows us
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the definition of love
needs to come from God,
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from our creator.
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If we're not
spending the time here
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to find out what
that definition is,
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then the enemy
quickly comes about
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trying to twist on
God's original plan.
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Yeah, in our last program
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we talked about
the owner's manual.
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And now we'll shift to
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what does the
owner's manual from God
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tell us about love,
about this big issue.
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So if somebody's
listening to this
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and hearing this
verse, "God is love,"
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what does that mean?
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What kind of love?
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You know, a lot
of people hate God.
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They don't think
He loves them at all.
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They think that He just--
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He doesn't like
what they're doing.
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Maybe they've had a
skewed perception of Him
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as they were growing up.
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They just think there's--
if there is anybody up there,
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He's probably just a
big meaning in the sky
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who just-- He doesn't love me,
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He just wants to
point out my faults.
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You know, how do we
understand this verse
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that says that God is love?
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I think often people
misconstrue love and feelings.
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So if your
feelings don't confirm
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what you expect to be love,
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then you don't
consider it to be love.
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But God is a
disciplinary God as well.
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So while it may
not always feel good,
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God is looking out for us
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if we put our trust
and our faith in Him.
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And if we look at the
life of Jesus Himself,
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Jesus in His life,
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He gives us the definition
and the clarification.
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I think of this
text when He says
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if You've seen the
Father, you've seen Me,
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and we read that God is love.
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And that may seem
kind of nebulous to us,
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but if we look at
the life of Jesus,
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His whole life spelled
out what that text means.
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Is it safe to say
that love, that real love,
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that God's love is multifaceted?
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That it has
different dimensions?
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I know from my
reading of the Bible,
00:10:21.77\00:10:23.53
it tells me that
God is a just God.
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He's love, He's just,
He's also extremely merciful.
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He's a merciful God
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so He has all of
these different qualities.
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And as I look at it, really
the core of His being is love
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and that His
justice which tells us
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what's right and
wrong and His decision
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that He's actually going to
He's gonna punish sin someday.
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And His mercy that He
doesn't want that happen to us,
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that He wants us to come to Him
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and avoid the
inevitable if we stay in sin.
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That both His
justice and His mercy
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are manifestations
of His heart of love.
00:11:03.62\00:11:07.34
Could I touch on the
word mercy for just a second?
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Sure.
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God has always been merciful,
but until the fall of man,
00:11:10.84\00:11:15.36
the universe never saw
that dimension of His love.
00:11:15.39\00:11:19.34
And through us, through
people who are redeemed,
00:11:19.37\00:11:22.04
the universe is seeing
a dimension of God's love
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that they would
never have seen otherwise.
00:11:25.27\00:11:27.40
To me that's an amazing thing.
00:11:27.43\00:11:28.80
His mercy is a part of
His character and His love,
00:11:28.83\00:11:31.61
but it was never
seen until someone like
00:11:31.64\00:11:34.41
Wayne and Ron
and Mike come along
00:11:34.44\00:11:36.68
and then the universe goes--
00:11:36.71\00:11:37.80
And Steve. Wow!
00:11:37.83\00:11:39.47
Well, yeah, maybe even
Steve. You know, they go, "Wow!"
00:11:39.50\00:11:43.27
We got different
temptations, but sin is sin.
00:11:43.30\00:11:44.55
God, that's what mercy
is, that's what love is.
00:11:44.58\00:11:48.55
While you touched on mercy,
00:11:48.58\00:11:49.95
I'd like to touch on grace
because when we look at love,
00:11:49.98\00:11:54.28
we look at all three
of these coming into play.
00:11:54.31\00:11:57.21
And often people will
say, well, God's grace,
00:11:57.24\00:11:59.72
you know, has covered you.
00:11:59.75\00:12:01.21
And, yeah, God's
grace-- love is not cheap.
00:12:01.24\00:12:05.27
God shed His blood for us.
00:12:05.30\00:12:07.76
He spent His life here
00:12:07.79\00:12:09.16
to give us the
definition of love.
00:12:09.19\00:12:10.95
So while He
covers us with grace,
00:12:10.98\00:12:13.62
it's not for us to ever think
00:12:13.65\00:12:15.01
that we can be presumptuous
and continue in sin.
00:12:15.04\00:12:18.40
Now let's talk about what
the Bible says about love,
00:12:18.43\00:12:21.94
true love and discipline.
00:12:21.97\00:12:24.18
That's a word that, you know,
many times love and discipline
00:12:24.21\00:12:27.43
don't seem to go
together like oil and water.
00:12:27.46\00:12:30.12
But they do go
together in the Bible.
00:12:30.15\00:12:33.08
So share with us some
scriptures about that.
00:12:33.11\00:12:38.97
Wayne, I think
you have Revelation 3?
00:12:39.00\00:12:40.13
Yeah, I do.
00:12:40.16\00:12:41.31
Revelation 3:19 says to us,
00:12:41.34\00:12:46.90
"As many as I love,
I rebuke and chasten,
00:12:46.93\00:12:50.75
therefore be
zealous, and repent."
00:12:50.78\00:12:54.81
So it gives clarity to me
00:12:54.84\00:12:57.03
that God put His law in
place as guardrails for me.
00:12:57.06\00:13:01.45
He loved me so much
00:13:01.48\00:13:02.51
that He didn't want
me to experience things
00:13:02.54\00:13:05.09
that the enemy has in store
00:13:05.12\00:13:06.88
if I'm not paying
attention to the word
00:13:06.91\00:13:09.09
and sticking to what
God's plan for me is.
00:13:09.12\00:13:11.89
And so when I get
outside the line sometimes,
00:13:11.92\00:13:14.88
God has to do or allow
certain things to happen to me,
00:13:14.91\00:13:17.94
consequences to happen
to me of my own choices
00:13:17.97\00:13:20.91
which I bear today in
the life that I lived.
00:13:20.94\00:13:24.48
Some of the temptations
00:13:24.51\00:13:25.54
that are still
present in my life today
00:13:25.57\00:13:27.68
are because of having made
00:13:27.71\00:13:29.29
so many wrong choices
over and over and over.
00:13:29.32\00:13:31.77
They're engrained,
they're stained on me.
00:13:31.80\00:13:34.42
But He brings me
back, points out to me
00:13:34.45\00:13:37.08
that He allowed
those things to happen
00:13:37.11\00:13:39.02
so that I could truly see
00:13:39.05\00:13:40.36
what genuine
love is, true love is.
00:13:40.39\00:13:43.27
we actually can build on that,
00:13:43.30\00:13:47.24
"For whom the Lord
loveth He chastens,
00:13:47.27\00:13:50.77
and scourges every
son whom He receiveth."
00:13:50.80\00:13:53.77
And I think
we've all been scourged
00:13:53.80\00:13:56.91
by our parents time to time.
00:13:56.94\00:13:59.09
And I remember when
my mother would say,
00:13:59.12\00:14:01.48
"This hurts me more than you."
00:14:01.51\00:14:03.37
And I would say, "Yeah, right."
00:14:03.40\00:14:06.09
But now as a father myself
00:14:06.12\00:14:08.17
and you, Steve,
you know as a parent,
00:14:08.20\00:14:10.60
it truly hurts the parent
00:14:10.63\00:14:12.80
to punish or discipline a child.
00:14:12.83\00:14:14.75
And yet that is love.
00:14:14.78\00:14:16.76
I mean, it
should be a loving act
00:14:16.79\00:14:20.37
because we want to
train these children
00:14:20.40\00:14:22.99
to walk in the way of the Lord.
00:14:23.02\00:14:27.46
And I think of the
example of all of the work
00:14:27.49\00:14:30.25
that I've done in Romania,
I've been there many times.
00:14:30.28\00:14:33.08
And I see these
little street urchin children
00:14:33.11\00:14:35.41
that have been put
out by their families
00:14:35.44\00:14:37.49
because they can't
afford to feed them anymore.
00:14:37.52\00:14:39.96
And they roam the
streets like animals.
00:14:39.99\00:14:42.86
And my heart goes out
and I feel love towards them
00:14:42.89\00:14:45.09
and I'd like to
adopt one and bring home.
00:14:45.12\00:14:47.53
But the thing of it is
00:14:47.56\00:14:48.59
I don't love that child
and leave him where he is,
00:14:48.62\00:14:52.71
and God doesn't
love us that way.
00:14:52.74\00:14:54.77
We love-- I
would love that child
00:14:54.80\00:14:56.94
enough to accept him
into my home and clean him up,
00:14:56.97\00:15:00.79
shave his head,
burn his clothes,
00:15:00.82\00:15:02.36
soak him in a
hot tub for a week,
00:15:02.39\00:15:03.87
deworm him, delouse him,
00:15:03.90\00:15:05.60
give him good
food, good clothes,
00:15:05.63\00:15:08.09
you know, good
things, good education.
00:15:08.12\00:15:10.21
As Mike says, don't
forget the puppy, you know.
00:15:10.24\00:15:12.70
And that's the
way God is with us.
00:15:12.73\00:15:15.33
He loves us and
He disciplines us
00:15:15.36\00:15:18.10
and He trains us
to be like Himself.
00:15:18.13\00:15:20.96
And He gives us the puppy. Yeah.
00:15:20.99\00:15:22.83
You know, I've
learned that lesson especially
00:15:22.86\00:15:26.38
since I've become a dad.
00:15:26.41\00:15:27.97
And I know you can
relate to this, you know.
00:15:28.00\00:15:29.29
I have a little
boy, he's 9 years old,
00:15:29.32\00:15:31.56
Seth, and I have a little
girl Abigail, Abi, she's 6.
00:15:31.59\00:15:36.12
And I love my kids
more than life itself.
00:15:36.15\00:15:38.69
I would sacrifice my
life for them, I really would.
00:15:38.72\00:15:41.65
There's nothing I want more than
00:15:41.68\00:15:42.71
for my kids to be in heaven.
00:15:42.74\00:15:44.39
And because I love them so much,
00:15:44.42\00:15:47.75
I want to train
them to do what's right.
00:15:47.78\00:15:51.23
And when as different
things happen in our home,
00:15:51.26\00:15:54.63
I could go into a
whole host of examples,
00:15:54.66\00:15:56.01
I know you could, too.
00:15:56.04\00:15:57.58
If either Seth or Abi,
00:15:57.61\00:15:58.87
you know, one time
recently Seth and I,
00:15:58.90\00:16:01.36
we were playing a
little board game,
00:16:01.39\00:16:02.92
and he finagled.
00:16:02.95\00:16:04.69
And he-- you know, I was
kind of looking the other way,
00:16:04.72\00:16:07.22
and he rolled a little
dice, you know, to move.
00:16:07.25\00:16:09.69
I think it was monopoly.
00:16:09.72\00:16:11.11
And he saw that it
didn't-- rolled the dice,
00:16:11.14\00:16:15.67
didn't come up with
the number that he wanted
00:16:15.70\00:16:18.80
and one of them
fell off the board.
00:16:18.83\00:16:21.32
And so he grabbed it,
00:16:21.35\00:16:22.68
looked at that,
figured that out,
00:16:22.71\00:16:23.92
this is not what I want
and so he rolled it again.
00:16:23.95\00:16:26.74
And then I caught him on
that, and I told him, I said,
00:16:26.77\00:16:29.85
"Seth, you know, you're really
00:16:29.88\00:16:32.14
not being honest
with that situation.
00:16:32.17\00:16:35.06
That first roll was
the roll that you rolled.
00:16:35.09\00:16:38.21
And because you
didn't want that number
00:16:38.24\00:16:41.56
where you want it
to go, you changed it."
00:16:41.59\00:16:45.05
And actually gave him
a Bible verse later on.
00:16:45.08\00:16:46.55
I said, "I want you to read,"
00:16:46.58\00:16:47.62
I think it was
Luke 16:10 that says,
00:16:47.65\00:16:49.53
"He who is faithful in that
00:16:49.56\00:16:51.08
which is least is
faithful also in much."
00:16:51.11\00:16:53.45
And then I talked
to him about that.
00:16:53.48\00:16:54.52
And I'm trying to instill in him
00:16:54.55\00:16:57.07
through this
practical experience
00:16:57.10\00:16:58.39
the importance of telling
the truth and being truthful
00:16:58.42\00:17:03.77
and practicing the truth
even if it's not something
00:17:03.80\00:17:06.27
that you may exactly want.
00:17:06.30\00:17:08.48
So it's just a small thing,
but because I love my boy,
00:17:08.51\00:17:12.02
I'm willing to discipline him,
to correct him, to instruct him
00:17:12.05\00:17:17.15
because I want
what's best for him.
00:17:17.18\00:17:19.53
And I do this over
and over and over again.
00:17:19.56\00:17:22.56
And I've learned that because,
00:17:22.59\00:17:24.22
you know, God
loves me like that verse
00:17:24.25\00:17:26.57
that you read, both of you,
00:17:26.60\00:17:28.36
Jesus said "Those
whom I love I rebuke,
00:17:28.39\00:17:32.57
and I discipline, repent."
00:17:32.60\00:17:33.68
It gives us moral
character. That's right.
00:17:33.71\00:17:35.31
And sometimes as parents
this is an all day process,
00:17:35.34\00:17:39.02
and so it should
help us understand
00:17:39.05\00:17:40.54
with our Heavenly Father
it's 24x7 also towards us.
00:17:40.57\00:17:43.45
Right.
00:17:43.48\00:17:44.51
And He has a lot of things
to deal with, much more than us
00:17:44.54\00:17:46.95
just rolling a dice
on a game of monopoly.
00:17:46.98\00:17:49.82
As we get bigger, of
course, we have big issues.
00:17:49.85\00:17:52.66
And God loves us
and so these verses say
00:17:52.69\00:17:55.89
that He disciplines us.
00:17:55.92\00:17:57.07
Now I want to shift
to love and morality,
00:17:57.10\00:18:00.62
the moral nature of love
because we're just so confused.
00:18:00.65\00:18:03.89
We grow up, we're just--
00:18:03.92\00:18:05.96
we don't really
know what love is.
00:18:05.99\00:18:07.03
We hear love, we see
Hollywood, love each other,
00:18:07.06\00:18:09.84
you know, they
leave their spouses
00:18:09.87\00:18:11.60
because they love
this person or that person.
00:18:11.63\00:18:13.91
And love is thrown
around all over the place.
00:18:13.94\00:18:16.49
And yet according to this book,
00:18:16.52\00:18:18.95
what is the connection
between love and morality?
00:18:18.98\00:18:23.95
Well, love is a principle.
00:18:23.98\00:18:26.10
And when we apply
love it needs to be
00:18:26.13\00:18:28.04
in harmony with the principles
that God has given us.
00:18:28.07\00:18:30.79
Otherwise, you
know, it gets misplaced
00:18:30.82\00:18:33.33
and causes all kinds of
heartache and difficulty.
00:18:33.36\00:18:36.14
We can't--
00:18:36.17\00:18:37.22
If we just go with our
feelings and emotions really
00:18:37.25\00:18:40.51
and follow puppy love
it's really following lust
00:18:40.54\00:18:44.22
and letting that
dictate our behavior
00:18:44.25\00:18:47.37
and our choices
rather than our mind
00:18:47.40\00:18:49.88
which should be operating in
harmony with the will of God.
00:18:49.91\00:18:54.37
There's a verse
in Romans 13: 10.
00:18:54.40\00:18:58.98
Have we talked about that?
00:18:59.01\00:19:00.29
Ron, would you
like to read that?
00:19:00.32\00:19:01.37
Romans 13:10.
00:19:01.40\00:19:02.43
"Love worketh no
ill to his neighbor.
00:19:02.46\00:19:05.31
Therefore love is the
fulfilling of the law."
00:19:05.34\00:19:07.76
And that's stated over
and over in the Bible with--
00:19:07.79\00:19:11.46
Jesus said in John 14:15,
00:19:11.49\00:19:13.35
"If you love Me,
keep My commandments."
00:19:13.38\00:19:16.23
And one that I really like
is 1 John 5:3 in which he says,
00:19:16.26\00:19:19.62
"For this is the love of God,
that we keep His commandments.
00:19:19.65\00:19:23.16
And His
commandments are not grievous."
00:19:23.19\00:19:26.34
His commandments are
really the definition of love
00:19:26.37\00:19:28.79
because they are a
reflection of His character,
00:19:28.82\00:19:32.14
and God is love.
00:19:32.17\00:19:35.77
You know, it helps me
understand today that,
00:19:35.80\00:19:38.62
you know, as I
pray, and I pray every day
00:19:38.65\00:19:41.39
that God will help me fall
more and more in love with him.
00:19:41.42\00:19:44.23
And it makes sense
for the verse that says,
00:19:44.26\00:19:46.08
"If you love Me, you
will keep My commandments."
00:19:46.11\00:19:48.71
And, you know, we
have verses in both
00:19:48.74\00:19:52.08
the New and the Old
Testaments that tell us,
00:19:52.11\00:19:55.67
you know, the importance
of keeping His commandments.
00:19:55.70\00:19:58.01
But we don't want to do
that out of a checklist notion.
00:19:58.04\00:20:03.49
The only way
that I'm gonna regard
00:20:03.52\00:20:05.07
God is if I fall
in love with Him,
00:20:05.10\00:20:07.38
if I know that
His ways are perfect.
00:20:07.41\00:20:09.69
And that if I abide in
Him and surrender to Him
00:20:09.72\00:20:13.10
that He will bless me.
00:20:13.13\00:20:14.16
And so as I walk with God today
00:20:14.19\00:20:16.97
and I see that I surrender
and I give things over to Him,
00:20:17.00\00:20:19.91
that I deny self as He
asks me to do, to live for Him,
00:20:19.94\00:20:23.97
that He greatly blesses my life.
00:20:24.00\00:20:26.52
We can't always see on
the other side of the wall.
00:20:26.55\00:20:30.23
So it takes an act of
faith and believing in God
00:20:30.26\00:20:33.18
and His truth and His Word,
00:20:33.21\00:20:36.78
that He reveals to
us on the other side
00:20:36.81\00:20:39.05
of that wall are beautiful,
wonderful things for us,
00:20:39.08\00:20:42.04
rewards for us for
having kept His commandments.
00:20:42.07\00:20:45.19
You know, when Jesus says,
00:20:45.22\00:20:46.31
"If you love Me,
keep My commandments,"
00:20:46.34\00:20:48.15
that's really a very
reasonable statement.
00:20:48.18\00:20:50.92
You know, as husbands
00:20:50.95\00:20:52.73
we probably have heard
our wives say in the past,
00:20:52.76\00:20:55.16
"If you really love me..."
00:20:55.19\00:20:57.15
you know, and then
we know what's coming.
00:20:57.18\00:21:00.07
I mean, we use this
term and we even may say
00:21:00.10\00:21:03.28
the same things to our wives.
00:21:03.31\00:21:05.15
And Jesus is simply saying,
00:21:05.18\00:21:06.57
you know, if you really love Me,
00:21:06.60\00:21:08.84
this is what pleases Me,
this is what makes Me happy.
00:21:08.87\00:21:12.40
And so it's perfectly
logical and reasonable.
00:21:12.43\00:21:15.28
That's right.
00:21:15.31\00:21:16.57
In our family we go through
the Ten Commandments a lot.
00:21:16.60\00:21:19.69
And my son
especially, he's older than Aby,
00:21:19.72\00:21:22.39
and he knows
the Ten Commandments
00:21:22.42\00:21:23.49
from top to bottom.
00:21:23.52\00:21:24.84
And it just makes sense to me
00:21:24.87\00:21:27.60
in my relationship with
my wife and with my kids
00:21:27.63\00:21:30.45
that to put God first is
part of God's moral love,
00:21:30.48\00:21:34.28
that's what's best for me,
00:21:34.31\00:21:35.35
it's what's best for our family,
00:21:35.38\00:21:36.42
not to have any idols, not
to take God's name in vain,
00:21:36.45\00:21:39.73
to keep God's day holy, to
honor my father and mother.
00:21:39.76\00:21:43.29
We teach our kids,
"Honor your parents"
00:21:43.32\00:21:45.03
because that's what's
best for a happy home.
00:21:45.06\00:21:47.91
Don't murder,
don't commit adultery.
00:21:47.94\00:21:49.90
I tell the kids, you
know, adultery would be,
00:21:49.93\00:21:52.97
they want to know
what that text means,
00:21:53.00\00:21:54.73
so I tell them, "Well,
I'm married to your mommy.
00:21:54.76\00:21:57.24
And if I were to go
out and find another mommy,
00:21:57.27\00:22:00.13
that would be adultery.
00:22:00.16\00:22:01.27
And God does not want that.
00:22:01.30\00:22:03.04
And because I
love Mommy, which I do,
00:22:03.07\00:22:05.92
I don't want to do that."
00:22:05.95\00:22:07.37
And so love then has a context,
and it has moral principles.
00:22:07.40\00:22:14.04
And I don't want to
steal, I don't wan to lie,
00:22:14.07\00:22:16.46
I don't want to covet,
00:22:16.49\00:22:17.52
I want to love God
with my whole heart,
00:22:17.55\00:22:19.25
soul, mind and strength
and my neighbor as myself.
00:22:19.28\00:22:21.86
And those principles of
love are moral principles.
00:22:21.89\00:22:25.81
You know, I think one thing
00:22:25.84\00:22:27.72
that God kind of revealed to me,
00:22:27.75\00:22:29.28
simple thing here
recently was the fact that,
00:22:29.31\00:22:32.96
you know, He's put
these things in place for us.
00:22:32.99\00:22:35.24
And we find the world
just really bending things.
00:22:35.27\00:22:38.46
And I think that if
it was apropos God's plan
00:22:38.49\00:22:43.46
for gays and
lesbians today to be parents,
00:22:43.49\00:22:48.00
there would have
been a commandment
00:22:48.03\00:22:49.27
that would have said,
00:22:49.30\00:22:50.38
"Honor thy
father and thy father,
00:22:50.41\00:22:52.32
or honor thy
mother and thy mother."
00:22:52.35\00:22:54.37
But that's absent, and
that's a big indicator to me
00:22:54.40\00:22:56.87
that this isn't part
of God's plan for us.
00:22:56.90\00:22:59.78
You know, one way I really like
to go through the commandments,
00:22:59.81\00:23:04.06
I put these two together,
00:23:04.09\00:23:05.92
and I just take
the words of Jesus,
00:23:05.95\00:23:07.34
"If you love Me, don't
have other gods before Me.
00:23:07.37\00:23:10.70
If you love Me--" You
know, and I go through them.
00:23:10.73\00:23:13.27
And when you come to
the seventh commandment,
00:23:13.30\00:23:14.98
if you say, quote Jesus,
00:23:15.01\00:23:16.97
"If you love Me,
don't commit adultery.
00:23:17.00\00:23:19.58
If you love Me--"
00:23:19.61\00:23:20.65
And see this is what
I applied to my life,
00:23:20.68\00:23:22.69
and I'm sure
you did, too, Wayne.
00:23:22.72\00:23:24.47
If you love Me,
00:23:24.50\00:23:25.98
don't be involved in
this kind of relationship.
00:23:26.01\00:23:29.75
It's not in harmony.
00:23:29.78\00:23:30.90
If you really love Me,
00:23:30.93\00:23:32.43
you need to
bring this to an end.
00:23:32.46\00:23:34.06
And that's what
happened with me.
00:23:34.09\00:23:35.88
I learned to love Him more.
00:23:35.91\00:23:38.37
And I think in many
cases what we call love,
00:23:38.40\00:23:41.50
in many cases, not all cases,
00:23:41.53\00:23:42.96
but in many cases
it's really just lust.
00:23:42.99\00:23:45.12
It's lust, it's not really love.
00:23:45.15\00:23:47.31
And God has given us
the Ten Commandments.
00:23:47.34\00:23:50.04
And when we think about
this whole sexuality issue,
00:23:50.07\00:23:52.44
I mean, like you said the
fifth commandment does not say
00:23:52.47\00:23:54.76
"Honor your father and father."
00:23:54.79\00:23:55.82
It says "Honor
your father and mother."
00:23:55.85\00:23:57.61
And the second commandment
talks about the sins of fathers
00:23:57.64\00:24:00.32
being visited upon the children,
00:24:00.35\00:24:02.68
the tenth
commandment talks about
00:24:02.71\00:24:04.24
not coveting
your neighbor's wife
00:24:04.27\00:24:07.00
or anything that
belongs to your neighbor,
00:24:07.03\00:24:09.02
and the seventh commandment,
00:24:09.05\00:24:10.43
you know, is respecting
the marriage relationship,
00:24:10.46\00:24:11.91
not committing adultery.
00:24:11.94\00:24:12.97
And when you really
honestly look at the big ten,
00:24:13.00\00:24:15.37
God's law of love, it
basically, not basically,
00:24:15.40\00:24:18.69
but it does support
traditional marriage.
00:24:18.72\00:24:21.39
Husbands, wives,
children, adultery,
00:24:21.42\00:24:24.58
God's original plan
in the Garden of Eden
00:24:24.61\00:24:26.79
as was revealed by
the owner's manual,
00:24:26.82\00:24:29.73
which we talked
about previously.
00:24:29.76\00:24:31.32
And real love, true love,
biblical love is God's attempt,
00:24:31.35\00:24:36.82
He loves us, and He
wants us to bring us
00:24:36.85\00:24:39.15
into harmony
with His law of love
00:24:39.18\00:24:42.73
because that is
really what's best for us,
00:24:42.76\00:24:44.88
it's what's best
for our children,
00:24:44.91\00:24:46.35
it's what's
best for our society.
00:24:46.38\00:24:48.33
And one of these days
00:24:48.36\00:24:50.09
it will become the law
of the land in the new earth
00:24:50.12\00:24:53.73
when we will be living
with our God forever and ever.
00:24:53.76\00:24:57.73
And doesn't Jesus reveal Himself
00:24:57.76\00:25:00.63
through the marriage
institution to children?
00:25:00.66\00:25:04.64
This is one way children learn
more about God, who is love,
00:25:04.67\00:25:08.24
if they have a proper family.
00:25:08.27\00:25:10.30
Example.
00:25:10.33\00:25:11.47
He instituted that
marriage to help portray
00:25:11.50\00:25:15.48
and teach
children about Himself.
00:25:15.51\00:25:17.33
So God can still
love us and not approve,
00:25:17.36\00:25:19.88
is that correct?
00:25:19.91\00:25:20.94
Yes. Of everything we do.
00:25:20.97\00:25:22.62
Yeah, so if God can
love sinners, can we?
00:25:22.65\00:25:26.96
You know, that's a
good thing to point out
00:25:26.99\00:25:29.89
because I see today as we go
and we speak around the world,
00:25:29.92\00:25:34.71
we meet many parents
00:25:34.74\00:25:37.35
who are compromised
often about their children
00:25:37.38\00:25:40.92
who are living
openly in a gay lifestyle
00:25:40.95\00:25:43.55
that they didn't plan
for them or a gay culture,
00:25:43.58\00:25:45.82
however you want to term it.
00:25:45.85\00:25:49.35
I think that first of all
00:25:49.38\00:25:50.54
the enemy goes
after young people
00:25:50.57\00:25:52.52
because he wants to get them
00:25:52.55\00:25:53.70
before they can get
rooted in the word of God.
00:25:53.73\00:25:56.49
But often when he
grabs the children,
00:25:56.52\00:25:58.60
he'll reach right behind them
00:25:58.63\00:26:00.10
and try to grab
the parents, too,
00:26:00.13\00:26:02.19
by saying that if you
really love your children,
00:26:02.22\00:26:05.54
you're going to put a
stamp of approval on their sin.
00:26:05.57\00:26:09.37
And so you would
attend, you know, a gay wedding,
00:26:09.40\00:26:12.76
or you would do
something that you're indicating
00:26:12.79\00:26:15.72
that you love them through that.
00:26:15.75\00:26:16.78
Yeah, we'll talk about
that more in a future program,
00:26:16.81\00:26:19.53
that's a big issue.
00:26:19.56\00:26:21.06
I'd like to close
with Romans 5:8 says that
00:26:21.09\00:26:25.74
"God demonstrated
His love, it's His love,
00:26:25.77\00:26:28.89
this kind of love
toward us, in that,
00:26:28.92\00:26:31.75
while we were yet
sinners, Christ died for us."
00:26:31.78\00:26:37.37
God's love is a pure
love, it's a true love.
00:26:37.40\00:26:39.68
It's a love
that doesn't overlook
00:26:39.71\00:26:41.96
and doesn't revise and
doesn't just ignore sin.
00:26:41.99\00:26:45.42
It's a love that
manifested itself in God
00:26:45.45\00:26:49.81
giving His own
Son to deal with sin.
00:26:49.84\00:26:54.36
And the way He dealt with it
00:26:54.39\00:26:56.11
is that He took it
into his mind and heart,
00:26:56.14\00:26:58.65
and He paid the ultimate
price for you and for me.
00:26:58.68\00:27:01.93
He died for our sins
and rose from the dead.
00:27:01.96\00:27:04.75
And He wants to
forgive us and change our lives
00:27:04.78\00:27:07.90
and prepare us
to love Him forever
00:27:07.93\00:27:10.07
so we can be happy
throughout all eternity.
00:27:10.10\00:27:14.27
We'll be back with
more of Coming Out.
00:27:14.30\00:27:17.09
If you would like
to order the 13 part
00:27:17.12\00:27:18.97
Coming Out series
for $34.95 plus shipping,
00:27:19.00\00:27:22.02
call 1-800-782-4253, or
write to White Horse Media,
00:27:22.05\00:27:26.54
PO Box 1139,
Newport, Washington, 99156.
00:27:26.57\00:27:30.95
Pastor Ron
Woolsey, Wayne Blakely
00:27:30.98\00:27:32.84
and Mike Carducci
are each available
00:27:32.87\00:27:34.49
to conduct a
seminar in your area.
00:27:34.52\00:27:36.86
To schedule a
speaking engagement,
00:27:36.89\00:27:38.33
contact Coming Out Ministries
by calling 360-936-8514,
00:27:38.36\00:27:43.64
or visit
comingoutministries.org.
00:27:43.67\00:27:46.62