If you are
listening you know that
00:00:09.17\00:00:11.59
sexual, lesbian,
homosexual issues
00:00:11.62\00:00:14.75
are now being discussed
openly around the world.
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They are being talked
about in the court room,
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they are being talked
about in the media, on campuses,
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even elementary school campuses.
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They are being
talked about in churches,
00:00:24.97\00:00:26.92
in homes, in human hearts
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and its time for
us to talk about them
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as well next on Coming Out.
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Welcome to part
three of Coming Out.
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My special guest
today is Pastor Ron Woolsey.
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He is a pastor of
two churches in Arkansas.
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He is also one of the cofounders
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of the Coming Out Ministries.
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And Ron, Pastor
Ron, want to welcome you.
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Here to North Idaho to be
part of this special series.
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It's a privilege
to be here, thank you.
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Well, thank you too, Ron.
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As you know, my first
guest was Wayne Blakely.
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He has been out for five years.
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My next guest was Mike Carducci
and he's been out for 13 years
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and understand that
its been 22 years for you.
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So you are really
like the sage among us
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that we are gonna look
to you for a lot of wisdom.
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Yes, they also
referred to me as Moses.
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Now I don't know why its
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because of my chin
or because of my age.
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Well, I don't know but
Ron, you've been through a lot.
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We've known each
other for quite a while
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and we've got a lot to
listen to you, to learn from you
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and you are also the
only one of the three
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that has written a book.
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Pastor Ron has
a book it's called
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"That Kind Can Never Change!
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Can They...?"
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And the subtitle there is,
one man struggle to understand
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and overcome his homosexuality.
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And the name at the
bottom is Victor J. Adamson
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which is really
not your real name,
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it's a pen name.
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Why did you pick that name?
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Well, first of all I
was advised by the publisher
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who have actually
published the book
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to use a pen name
for my protection.
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They had an other author
right on the same subject
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to that is
house burned to ground
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and then when I was
asked to come up with a name
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I spent more time on the name
than writing the book actually
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because I wanted a
message to be in the name.
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And there is a definite message
of salvation in the name.
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And the subtitle of this program
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is "Exploding the Gay Myth"
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and that's really what
your book attempts to do
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and you see as many others
see you life as an example
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and it's a
testimony of the power of God.
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And we want to hear your story.
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I've got my story but
its not the time to tell it
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we are here to hear your story
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and understand that you
grew up in a Christian home
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and you made a series of choices
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preparing for the ministry
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and you eventually
got married, had children
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and then decided
to exit that life
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and to go into
the gay lifestyle.
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So tell us little
bit about the background,
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you know, fill us in
on some of those details.
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Well, it's true I
made a lot of good choices.
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I grew up as a
very spiritual child
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and a spiritual teenager.
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I wanted to do
right, I wanted to please,
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I wanted to be accepted
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and I chose for
myself a Christian education.
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I chose a Christian college,
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I chose to be a
student missionary,
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I chose to study theology
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and pre-med with the idea
of being a medical missionary.
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I chose to have a Christian wife
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and I chose to
have Christian babies.
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But you could not convince
me that I chose to be gay.
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I finally just
gave up this struggle
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that I had been
dealing with all of my life
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and accepted being gay.
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I did not at the time
consider that to be a choice.
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Okay, I'm just curios based
upon the previous testimonies.
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Do you attribute your
feelings, your gay feelings
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to have anything to
do with your parents,
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with your mother and your father
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and you think it
was just your genes
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or you think it
was your environment
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or you know just
give us a quick opinion.
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You know, Steve,
there are so many factors
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that contribute to this issue
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and many sin issues
and addiction issues.
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And there were
factors in my life.
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I didn't know why I
was so different growing up
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and no one knew I was.
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I just had this mental
struggle where I felt like
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I was outside of
the male community
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of brothers and
dad and so forth.
00:05:14.99\00:05:17.44
But looking back on it
I've been able to connect dots.
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I was sexually
molested by a farmhand
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when I was four-years-old,
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never told a
living soul about it.
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And as a four-year-old child
I'd now was trying to process
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what is this,
what's this all about?
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I do know from that day forward
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I had wild
fantasies and imaginations.
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My mind was
filled with all of this
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and it affected me by
the time I was a teenager
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where I would be learning about
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you know, God's way of
sexuality and so forth.
00:05:47.35\00:05:49.49
I already had ten years of head
start in the wrong direction
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but also I had an abusive--
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my father initially
was emotionally abusive
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because he was
trying to shame me
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into overcoming bedwetting
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which came after the molestation
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and publicly
humiliating me and shaming me
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I grew up feeling
unloved and unwanted and unequal
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and a
disappointment and a failure.
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And so that was
another contributing factor,
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the sense of rejection
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and but there are
all kinds of factors
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that play into this.
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Sure and so by the
time you were married
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you had gone through
years of struggling with this
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but evidently you still
were attracted to a woman
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because you got married.
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Well, that's an
interesting concept
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but it's not really true.
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I decided that
marriage would be solution.
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Now I know that's laughable now
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it is not the
solution to anything.
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In fact, marriage
can be a real problem
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if you are not going
into marriage properly
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in for the right
reasons and with God's blessing.
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But I just
thought that my mind was
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so sexually
active that I thought
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well, if I get married
that will take care of it.
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That was so foolish of me.
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Well, I was naive
and it didn't of course.
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Very quickly I realized
I made a terrible mistake
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and my wife was unsuspecting.
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She planned to be the wife
of a minister or missionary
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and she was a good
Christian and of course,
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she was terribly devastated
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when I finally just
gave up and fell into that.
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But I had never
talked to a living soul
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about any of this.
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I struggle with this in my
mind all my life all alone.
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And so people didn't pick
up on it like with Mike's case?
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He was made fun of
in school but you were.
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The kids didn't
look at you and see,
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you know,
feminine characteristics?
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There were some of them.
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Well, it wasn't because of that.
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It was because I
started playing the piano
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when I was five.
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When everyone else
was out playing chess
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and football and baseball
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and making lots of
noise I wanted to make music.
00:08:01.85\00:08:04.28
And so I was called CCN
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and made fun of it at time
but it was because I was not--
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Right, but not because of
those issues generally speaking.
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No, I mean, kids
make fun of other kids
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for a whole host of
reasons and kids can be cruel.
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Well, because of
the dead wedding problem
00:08:19.19\00:08:20.96
that gave me another reason
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to be ridiculed and make fun of.
00:08:23.19\00:08:24.74
So but I still did
go through the trauma
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of being mocked,
made fun of and so forth
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but also I was
popular in the school.
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I mean, it was dichotomy
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I guess I mean,
I had this going on
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but I also had
popularity too at time.
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And so it was Steve, it
was a life of confusion.
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I was terribly
confused growing up
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and I masked it, no one knew.
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I had girlfriends in
high school and college
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and no one have any idea.
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And what brought
you to the final point
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to throw it all
away and to step out
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and go out into an
openly gay lifestyle?
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Well, I realized that marriage
did not solve the problem
00:09:02.92\00:09:07.29
that I was dealing with
and I had prayed for years
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that the Lord
would just take it away.
00:09:10.23\00:09:12.67
He didn't just take it away
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and I started becoming
disappointed with the Lord
00:09:14.67\00:09:17.08
because He
wouldn't remove temptation.
00:09:17.11\00:09:19.38
Now we will be talking
about that another time
00:09:19.41\00:09:22.07
but I had a degree in theology,
I graduated with honors
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but I did not have my answers.
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And also I
realized that I was studying
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so hard to make
straight A's to have high GPA
00:09:32.29\00:09:36.99
so I can go into medical school.
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Then I started rationalizing,
00:09:38.89\00:09:40.21
well, I'm studying
Bible all day in theology
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why do I need to have
my own private devotions
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and I stopped
studying for myself
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and studied for the professors
00:09:48.41\00:09:50.19
and I really just
lost my hold on God.
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And in doing that I became weak
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spiritually until
I finally gave up.
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I was angry with God
for not taking this away
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and I had no strength on my own
00:10:02.09\00:10:05.01
and I just gave Him and gave up.
00:10:05.04\00:10:07.50
Do you think there's a
lot of other people out there?
00:10:07.53\00:10:10.12
I met them-- I have met them.
00:10:10.15\00:10:12.90
I have met a
number of ex-pastors
00:10:12.93\00:10:15.74
who were husbands and fathers
00:10:15.77\00:10:18.31
that are very active
in the gay community now.
00:10:18.34\00:10:20.97
I was-- I thought
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I was the only person
in the world but I'm not.
00:10:22.06\00:10:25.30
So you "came out of the
closet" at the that point
00:10:25.33\00:10:29.00
you openly let people know
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what you have been
struggling with for a long time
00:10:31.36\00:10:33.10
and then you took the plunge
to go into that lifestyle.
00:10:33.13\00:10:35.86
I tried-- I had one
foot out of the closet.
00:10:35.89\00:10:38.64
I tried to stay in the closet.
00:10:38.67\00:10:40.04
In fact, I lived a
double life once I left home.
00:10:40.07\00:10:43.04
My wife knew of
course and my parents knew
00:10:43.07\00:10:45.03
and everyone was devastated.
00:10:45.06\00:10:46.92
But then what I did I moved away
00:10:46.95\00:10:49.04
and far from all of my friends.
00:10:49.07\00:10:50.82
I just turned my back
on everything that I knew
00:10:50.85\00:10:53.78
and the entire time I lived
in the gay life in the world
00:10:53.81\00:10:57.31
and in the workplace.
00:10:57.34\00:10:58.95
I lived one life during the day
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and another life
during the night.
00:11:00.92\00:11:03.42
At work I gave no indication,
00:11:03.45\00:11:05.70
I never talked about being gay.
00:11:05.73\00:11:07.63
I didn't give any indication
and that caused problems
00:11:07.66\00:11:10.77
because there
was-- there were ladies
00:11:10.80\00:11:15.01
who were
interested in getting involved
00:11:15.04\00:11:16.57
and I wouldn't and so
forth but I lived a double life.
00:11:16.60\00:11:21.50
Yeah, I didn't
really ever really
00:11:21.53\00:11:23.54
just coming out of the closet.
00:11:23.57\00:11:24.65
I was not proud of who I was.
00:11:24.68\00:11:27.94
You told me that
when you at least
00:11:27.97\00:11:30.93
took one foot out of the closet
00:11:30.96\00:11:33.19
that you were
searching for a sense of freedom
00:11:33.22\00:11:37.24
and happiness.
00:11:37.27\00:11:38.56
Did you find what
you were looking for
00:11:38.59\00:11:41.90
when you took that-- took
that plunge at least at night?
00:11:41.93\00:11:45.63
Yes, a very interesting concept
00:11:45.66\00:11:47.50
because and I think this
is true with many, many people
00:11:47.53\00:11:53.07
they-- that are struggling
00:11:53.10\00:11:55.22
and it was true
with me that I felt like
00:11:55.25\00:11:58.06
such a failure
living up to God standards.
00:11:58.09\00:12:00.84
I gave up on God
and I was so tired
00:12:00.87\00:12:04.62
of the mental
torment that I thought
00:12:04.65\00:12:07.10
well, if I just give
up then I'll be free.
00:12:07.13\00:12:10.37
I don't have to pay
attention to thou shalt not,
00:12:10.40\00:12:12.77
thou shalt not, thou shalt not.
00:12:12.80\00:12:15.18
What I didn't
realize was that the law
00:12:15.21\00:12:17.64
is called the law of liberty.
00:12:17.67\00:12:19.71
And so in seeking
freedom from the law of liberty
00:12:19.74\00:12:23.50
I really ended up in bondage
00:12:23.53\00:12:26.22
because I was
now free from liberty
00:12:26.25\00:12:29.12
and I didn't
realize I was in bondage
00:12:29.15\00:12:31.41
until I tried to
come out of the gay life
00:12:31.44\00:12:34.66
and come back to the
Lord and then I realized
00:12:34.69\00:12:38.61
that I was so totally addicted
00:12:38.64\00:12:40.09
and I was so
totally enslaved by Satan.
00:12:40.12\00:12:44.00
That it truly was a
miraculous delivery for me
00:12:44.03\00:12:46.68
to come out of that.
00:12:46.71\00:12:47.88
And what was the catalyst?
00:12:47.91\00:12:49.94
You know, tell us
about what happened to--
00:12:49.97\00:12:52.87
To bring me out of
that? That's right.
00:12:52.90\00:12:54.21
To make-- you
know, have you make the--
00:12:54.24\00:12:55.81
I mean, I know
what happened to me
00:12:55.84\00:12:56.88
I was in a dormitory room.
00:12:56.91\00:12:59.01
In 1979, I read a
book on the life of Jesus.
00:12:59.04\00:13:02.19
My life was all
messed up I read that book.
00:13:02.22\00:13:04.02
I was feeling a
need by that time
00:13:04.05\00:13:05.61
and when I read that
book on the life of Jesus
00:13:05.64\00:13:07.91
and saw what
Jesus did in Gethsemane
00:13:07.94\00:13:10.86
and on the cross that
for me was the catalyst.
00:13:10.89\00:13:14.71
I got on my knees
and I prayed a prayer
00:13:14.74\00:13:17.02
I had never prayed
before asking Him to come in.
00:13:17.05\00:13:19.25
So what happened to you?
00:13:19.28\00:13:20.54
There were many
contributing factors
00:13:20.57\00:13:22.41
and its really a
fascinating story
00:13:22.44\00:13:24.20
that's why its in the
book and we couldn't cover here
00:13:24.23\00:13:26.40
but I had praying
parents and praying friends
00:13:26.43\00:13:30.04
who loved me unconditionally.
00:13:30.07\00:13:32.74
They had planted
things around my home
00:13:32.77\00:13:34.59
and every day visited.
00:13:34.62\00:13:36.01
I called it the
left behind series.
00:13:36.04\00:13:38.09
A left behind
material for me to read
00:13:38.12\00:13:40.82
but the Lord stepped in
00:13:40.85\00:13:41.88
because I was an
unreachable person.
00:13:41.91\00:13:44.48
I was labeled as unchangeable
00:13:44.51\00:13:45.92
even by
ministers, I was unreachable
00:13:45.95\00:13:48.44
because I
wouldn't read anything,
00:13:48.47\00:13:49.86
watch anything,
listen to anything,
00:13:49.89\00:13:51.89
go anywhere or talk to anyone
00:13:51.92\00:13:53.43
who had anything
to do with religion.
00:13:53.46\00:13:55.46
So the Lord had to
step in and answer to prayer
00:13:55.49\00:13:57.84
and He started visiting
me in a recurring nightmare
00:13:57.87\00:14:02.52
which went on for about
three years in which I lived
00:14:02.55\00:14:04.99
through the coming of
Jesus as a lost person
00:14:05.02\00:14:08.77
and it was a horrific experience
00:14:08.80\00:14:11.28
but even then I resisted.
00:14:11.31\00:14:13.28
It took about three years
for me to start responding
00:14:13.31\00:14:16.32
and then I started
researching and reasoning
00:14:16.35\00:14:19.82
and studying and I really--
00:14:19.85\00:14:23.93
I was shown a text of
scripture 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
00:14:23.96\00:14:28.26
at least all of these behaviors
that will not be in heaven.
00:14:28.29\00:14:31.60
I was in there
three or four times
00:14:31.63\00:14:33.88
but verse 11 says in such words
00:14:33.91\00:14:36.56
some of you showing
that this could be past tense
00:14:36.59\00:14:39.76
and I thought, you
know, once gay always gay
00:14:39.79\00:14:42.13
that's the myth
but the Bible says
00:14:42.16\00:14:44.98
that some of
these people were gay,
00:14:45.01\00:14:46.34
they used to be they were
now sanctified and justified
00:14:46.37\00:14:49.97
and cleansed and washed.
00:14:50.00\00:14:52.00
And so that was a very
strong turning point for me.
00:14:52.03\00:14:55.99
I actually end up taking
a stand for Jesus that night
00:14:56.02\00:14:59.56
when I was shown that text.
00:14:59.59\00:15:01.38
But-- So that
verse and such words
00:15:01.41\00:15:04.47
some of you that
really penetrated your soul.
00:15:04.50\00:15:09.18
Right, it
clicked. It really did.
00:15:09.21\00:15:11.57
I shook you and it
gave you hope to beg.
00:15:11.60\00:15:13.53
It gave me hope but
then I continued studying
00:15:13.56\00:15:16.60
and I have to tell you
Steve, I found all of my--
00:15:16.63\00:15:19.76
none of my
answers through counseling
00:15:19.79\00:15:21.95
and psychiatry and psychology
or even pastors unfortunately.
00:15:21.98\00:15:26.18
I didn't trust because
I didn't want to be told
00:15:26.21\00:15:28.34
that kind can
never change again.
00:15:28.37\00:15:31.42
So I just went
to the Word of God.
00:15:31.45\00:15:33.55
I spent time on my knees
and listened to the Holy Spirit
00:15:33.58\00:15:36.82
studied the Word of
God and I found everything
00:15:36.85\00:15:39.86
I needed right there,
powerful, powerful promises.
00:15:39.89\00:15:43.85
I have an article
called A Rainbow of Promises
00:15:43.88\00:15:46.07
in which I have a collection
of these beautiful promises
00:15:46.10\00:15:49.89
and it's like a
very powerful medicine.
00:15:49.92\00:15:52.96
You read through those promises
and your heart just thrills
00:15:52.99\00:15:56.73
and you are
encouraged in the strength
00:15:56.76\00:15:58.28
in just reading those promises.
00:15:58.31\00:15:59.89
And the Bible is
full of promises.
00:15:59.92\00:16:01.78
I understand that this
verse is precious to you
00:16:01.81\00:16:04.89
and to me 2 Corinthians 5:17.
00:16:04.92\00:16:08.45
Says, "Therefore if
any man be in Christ,
00:16:08.48\00:16:11.56
he is a new creature,
old things have passed away,
00:16:11.59\00:16:15.78
behold, all
things are become new."
00:16:15.81\00:16:19.57
Which you say that
this verse applies to you.
00:16:19.60\00:16:22.33
Yes, and if we just slow down
and pay attention to the words
00:16:22.36\00:16:26.96
a new creature, that
means a new creation,
00:16:26.99\00:16:29.51
which means the
work of the Creator
00:16:29.54\00:16:31.77
and our Creator
has a plan for us
00:16:31.80\00:16:34.20
and He can restore in
us what He meant for us
00:16:34.23\00:16:37.76
to be in the first place.
00:16:37.79\00:16:39.49
This text to me
means that the new birth
00:16:39.52\00:16:42.39
consists of new models
00:16:42.42\00:16:43.65
and new taste and new tendencies
00:16:43.68\00:16:45.74
and that of genuine
conversion changes hereditary
00:16:45.77\00:16:49.73
in cultivated
tendencies to wrong
00:16:49.76\00:16:52.32
and that text is just
another powerful, powerful text.
00:16:52.35\00:16:55.85
It gave me hope.
00:16:55.88\00:16:56.91
So was there one moment
00:16:56.94\00:16:59.52
when you finally made the choice
00:16:59.55\00:17:01.58
and you gave your life
back to God and said Lord,
00:17:01.61\00:17:04.41
I'm yours come up and takeover.
00:17:04.44\00:17:06.34
I wanted the
process. It was a process.
00:17:06.37\00:17:07.47
It was a process
under great conviction
00:17:07.50\00:17:09.91
I started
visiting some churches.
00:17:09.94\00:17:12.00
I went through
a prophecy seminar
00:17:12.03\00:17:15.25
and did go through that process
00:17:15.28\00:17:18.13
to where
eventually I did accept Jesus.
00:17:18.16\00:17:21.37
I was almost killed
in the process by the way
00:17:21.40\00:17:24.01
because I was in a
relationship that was for life.
00:17:24.04\00:17:27.44
And when I announced that
I was going to follow Him,
00:17:27.47\00:17:32.76
that I loved Him
more all hell broke lose
00:17:32.79\00:17:35.88
and it was like seven
demons that were turned on me.
00:17:35.91\00:17:40.19
It was a very traumatic process
00:17:40.22\00:17:41.84
but that process revealed to me
who I was really dealing with.
00:17:41.87\00:17:47.32
Satan had me in his clutches
00:17:47.35\00:17:48.70
and he was not
about to let me go.
00:17:48.73\00:17:50.83
And you saw the
enemy when you really--
00:17:50.86\00:17:52.37
when you made the
decision to come back to God
00:17:52.40\00:17:54.64
the enemy
manifested himself full force.
00:17:54.67\00:17:57.65
Oh, he wanted to kill me
before I could be baptized.
00:17:57.68\00:18:00.65
And the Lord allowed
that but He also spared me
00:18:00.68\00:18:04.51
so that I could go forward
seer against the old life.
00:18:04.54\00:18:07.35
I mean, that
has no appeal to me.
00:18:07.38\00:18:09.31
I mean, it seared me.
00:18:09.34\00:18:10.52
Doesn't mean I
was without temptation
00:18:10.55\00:18:12.68
but it sure gave me
conviction and determination
00:18:12.71\00:18:16.72
to start a new life with Christ.
00:18:16.75\00:18:17.88
So that was 22
years ago probably--
00:18:17.91\00:18:20.00
Twenty two years ago.
00:18:20.03\00:18:21.09
And did the
temptations go away right away?
00:18:21.12\00:18:23.55
Did it-- was it all
everything new immediately
00:18:23.58\00:18:26.44
or was it like
you said a process?
00:18:26.47\00:18:28.31
You know, a lot of
people would like for me to say
00:18:28.34\00:18:30.47
that temptation was taken away
00:18:30.50\00:18:32.63
but you know, Steve, I
haven't found in the Bible
00:18:32.66\00:18:34.93
that God promises
to remove temptation.
00:18:34.96\00:18:37.68
He promises that
His grace is sufficient.
00:18:37.71\00:18:40.49
And no, temptation
was not taken away.
00:18:40.52\00:18:42.66
I mean, I was baptized
00:18:42.69\00:18:44.81
Satan wasn't and
he is the tempter.
00:18:44.84\00:18:48.13
I chose a new life, a
new direction for my life
00:18:48.16\00:18:51.42
Satan still had
his old plan in place.
00:18:51.45\00:18:53.46
And so I went to
furious temptation,
00:18:53.49\00:18:55.57
very strong
temptation therefore while
00:18:55.60\00:18:58.12
but I came away
equipped from the Word of God.
00:18:58.15\00:19:01.05
I knew what to do.
00:19:01.08\00:19:02.51
I knew that I could bring
every thought into captivity
00:19:02.54\00:19:06.03
unto the obedience of Christ.
00:19:06.06\00:19:07.36
I knew I could
let this mind be in me
00:19:07.39\00:19:09.03
which was in Christ Jesus.
00:19:09.06\00:19:10.71
I knew, God worked in me to will
00:19:10.74\00:19:12.08
and to do this good pleasure.
00:19:12.11\00:19:13.80
It has so many
beautiful promises
00:19:13.83\00:19:15.66
and so I just
learned to flip the switch
00:19:15.69\00:19:18.33
and turn the page
and change the channel
00:19:18.36\00:19:20.03
and turn my head
and change the subject
00:19:20.06\00:19:22.30
and just starve
that side of me--
00:19:22.33\00:19:24.26
That old life.
00:19:24.29\00:19:25.32
One thing that I
did I took the gay issue
00:19:25.35\00:19:27.45
and I hung it on the
other tree in the Garden of Eden
00:19:27.48\00:19:30.63
so its off limits where
God says don't go there.
00:19:30.66\00:19:33.04
So you just made a firm choice--
00:19:33.07\00:19:34.22
I made a choice.
00:19:34.25\00:19:35.28
Even though you may
still have been tempted
00:19:35.31\00:19:36.96
you just decided I'm not
going to follow this way.
00:19:36.99\00:19:40.13
Right, it's not an
option just off limits.
00:19:40.16\00:19:43.30
So the myth that you
are tying to explode it
00:19:43.33\00:19:47.95
once gay always gay, you--
00:19:47.98\00:19:50.39
now its been 22
years since that happened,
00:19:50.42\00:19:54.04
you are married,
you have children,
00:19:54.07\00:19:57.03
second marriage
and you are a minister,
00:19:57.06\00:19:59.54
you had a radio
program, you are an author,
00:19:59.57\00:20:01.21
you travel
around, you hold seminars
00:20:01.24\00:20:03.21
and speak on these
topics and if somebody were to,
00:20:03.24\00:20:07.36
you know, ask you,
you know, have you truly,
00:20:07.39\00:20:11.45
genuinely been
changed your answer would be?
00:20:11.48\00:20:16.19
Yes, absolutely.
00:20:16.22\00:20:17.48
I'm very content in my new life
00:20:17.51\00:20:19.57
and, you know, God promises us
00:20:19.60\00:20:21.31
that that His plan for our
life really far exceeds anything
00:20:21.34\00:20:24.66
we could even
imagine for ourselves.
00:20:24.69\00:20:26.89
Father knows best and so
in choosing to follow His will
00:20:26.92\00:20:31.34
we starve that old
side we feed the new
00:20:31.37\00:20:33.80
and we find out that new is
so much better than the old.
00:20:33.83\00:20:38.64
I asked, I asked
Mike Carducci the question
00:20:38.67\00:20:41.17
and I'm sure and
Wayne has also shared
00:20:41.20\00:20:43.44
you know, his
happiness of his new life.
00:20:43.47\00:20:46.12
Are you happy now
as compared to the life
00:20:46.15\00:20:48.99
that you used to live?
00:20:49.02\00:20:50.58
Well, in the world I
never got to be on set
00:20:50.61\00:20:52.72
with Steve Wohlberg, you know.
00:20:52.75\00:20:55.59
There are so many
wonderful opportunities
00:20:55.62\00:20:57.96
to speak out for the Lord
and to witness and, you know,
00:20:57.99\00:21:01.04
one of the
secrets to overcoming sin
00:21:01.07\00:21:02.74
is helping
others to overcome sin
00:21:02.77\00:21:05.08
and I believe that the reason
00:21:05.11\00:21:06.55
the Lord wants
us to work for Him
00:21:06.58\00:21:08.21
and His vineyard is so that
we share the joy that He has
00:21:08.24\00:21:11.64
and nothing
brings more joy to us
00:21:11.67\00:21:15.71
than helping others
find the same answers
00:21:15.74\00:21:18.68
that we have found
leading people to Jesus.
00:21:18.71\00:21:21.15
I never did that in the world.
00:21:21.18\00:21:23.56
So yes, I'm much, much happy.
00:21:23.59\00:21:25.15
Yes, and you wrote a
book, your book is not,
00:21:25.18\00:21:27.39
your book is not
designed to clobber people
00:21:27.42\00:21:29.53
but it's to get people hope.
00:21:29.56\00:21:31.80
That you can
relate to their struggles
00:21:31.83\00:21:34.28
and if there really is
an answer to this issue
00:21:34.31\00:21:38.35
and that hope is real through
the grace of Jesus Christ.
00:21:38.38\00:21:44.03
Right and in the
book I tell my story
00:21:44.06\00:21:45.79
but the last chapter is called,
"you too can be made whole."
00:21:45.82\00:21:50.52
And I go through
the sequence of events
00:21:50.55\00:21:52.63
the Lord led me
through to victory
00:21:52.66\00:21:54.73
and how to
sustain me in that victory
00:21:54.76\00:21:57.10
and its just turned out
to be a very powerful tool
00:21:57.13\00:21:59.71
for pastors and counselors
00:21:59.74\00:22:01.63
and for families
and friends of gays
00:22:01.66\00:22:04.68
and for the gay person
who is wanting help himself.
00:22:04.71\00:22:08.11
So now you are part
of Coming Out Ministries,
00:22:08.14\00:22:09.89
you have teamed up
with Wayne and with Mike
00:22:09.92\00:22:13.21
and you are
presenting a united front
00:22:13.24\00:22:15.99
and sharing a
message and in your--
00:22:16.02\00:22:17.75
I've asked the two of
them the same question
00:22:17.78\00:22:19.13
I'll ask you, what would you say
00:22:19.16\00:22:21.40
if you can just boil it
down in a short couple sentences
00:22:21.43\00:22:24.33
what is your
message to the world
00:22:24.36\00:22:26.74
and to the church and to those
00:22:26.77\00:22:28.01
that are
struggling with this issue?
00:22:28.04\00:22:29.58
Well, the theme that I harbor
00:22:29.61\00:22:31.31
and the theme of my ministry
00:22:31.34\00:22:32.50
is that nothing is
impossible with God
00:22:32.53\00:22:36.19
for He is mighty
to save that whosoever
00:22:36.22\00:22:39.87
from whatsoever
even to the uttermost.
00:22:39.90\00:22:43.29
And you know, I'm an exhibit A,
00:22:43.32\00:22:45.54
you are an exhibit A,
we all are to be exhibits
00:22:45.57\00:22:48.46
of the power of God to recreate,
00:22:48.49\00:22:50.88
to transform His children
into, to royal children of Him.
00:22:50.91\00:22:56.26
And if you were
talking to others out there
00:22:56.29\00:22:59.65
who are no doubt
watching this many of them
00:22:59.68\00:23:01.22
I'm sure who are struggling
with the same issues you know,
00:23:01.25\00:23:04.61
what appeal or what
counsel would you give to them?
00:23:04.64\00:23:09.80
I would just let them know
00:23:09.83\00:23:11.63
and try to
encourage them to understand
00:23:11.66\00:23:13.47
that they can trust God,
they can take Him at His word
00:23:13.50\00:23:17.00
that His way is best
00:23:17.03\00:23:20.08
and if we will let the mind rule
00:23:20.11\00:23:23.22
over the body
instead of letting the body
00:23:23.25\00:23:25.40
and the feelings
rule over the mind
00:23:25.43\00:23:28.33
we can have great success
and there is much more joy,
00:23:28.36\00:23:31.79
happiness, peace and
health in following God's plan.
00:23:31.82\00:23:36.13
It is doable.
00:23:36.16\00:23:37.88
You know, we are
here on the set with you
00:23:37.91\00:23:40.02
to testify to the
fact that God's plan works.
00:23:40.05\00:23:45.38
There's no question in my mind
00:23:45.41\00:23:46.95
and I know that the
Bible is full of promises.
00:23:46.98\00:23:49.33
I think of that Romans Chapter 1
00:23:49.36\00:23:51.81
where Paul says
that he is not ashamed
00:23:51.84\00:23:55.19
of the gospel of Christ.
00:23:55.22\00:23:56.88
"For it is the power of
God for salvation to every one
00:23:56.91\00:24:02.00
who believe to the Jew
first, and also to the Greek."
00:24:02.03\00:24:04.24
That's Romans 1:16, 17
that the Bible tells us
00:24:04.27\00:24:07.72
that that God has power,
that the gospel has power
00:24:07.75\00:24:11.48
that the Holy Spirit has power,
that the Word of God has power.
00:24:11.51\00:24:16.35
And I know that
from my life too.
00:24:16.38\00:24:18.10
I was, I was in
chains as well as a teenager
00:24:18.13\00:24:23.39
plunging off the deep end
into the Hollywood lifestyle.
00:24:23.42\00:24:25.94
I did grow up in the
church, I didn't read the Bible
00:24:25.97\00:24:28.35
and when I was 18 or
19 I was just a slave.
00:24:28.38\00:24:31.83
I knew that eventually and
I started reading the Bible
00:24:31.86\00:24:34.31
and I came to realize I'm
in trouble and I need help.
00:24:34.34\00:24:39.41
I need help and I
made the same choice.
00:24:39.44\00:24:42.02
I just said God, I'm
at the edge of my rope
00:24:42.05\00:24:45.88
and I can't change myself.
00:24:45.91\00:24:48.16
Will You please
forgive me and help me
00:24:48.19\00:24:51.27
and do something for me
that I cannot do for myself.
00:24:51.30\00:24:54.76
You know, you use the word power
00:24:54.79\00:24:57.13
and its a very interesting word
because in the Greek dictionary
00:24:57.16\00:25:01.07
the word Grace is
defined as the divine influence
00:25:01.10\00:25:05.33
working up on the heart
and reflecting in the life.
00:25:05.36\00:25:08.21
In other words grace really
00:25:08.24\00:25:10.40
is divine
omnipotent transforming power.
00:25:10.43\00:25:14.00
And in John
Chapter 1 we read about
00:25:14.03\00:25:16.19
when Jesus came to this earth
00:25:16.22\00:25:18.03
and His own did not receive
Him but and he goes on to say
00:25:18.06\00:25:21.91
that "But as many
as did receive him,
00:25:21.94\00:25:25.70
to them gave he power
to become the sons of God,
00:25:25.73\00:25:30.46
even to them that
believe on his name."
00:25:30.49\00:25:32.68
So Jesus does give us
the strength and the power
00:25:32.71\00:25:36.81
to turn away from our
addictive life to follow Him.
00:25:36.84\00:25:42.32
He promises to
work with us day by day,
00:25:42.35\00:25:44.77
hour by hour, moment by moment
00:25:44.80\00:25:47.07
to sustain us to
give us that strength.
00:25:47.10\00:25:49.20
His grace is sufficient.
00:25:49.23\00:25:50.46
And that's that
grace and that power
00:25:50.49\00:25:52.62
is available to everyone.
00:25:52.65\00:25:55.55
Sin, whatever the sin is,
00:25:55.58\00:25:58.04
whatever manifestation
of the flesh we go into,
00:25:58.07\00:26:01.86
whatever our feelings
say, whatever our addictions
00:26:01.89\00:26:05.18
the chains that bind us
grace is available to all of us.
00:26:05.21\00:26:10.34
God's grace is
inclusive in that sense.
00:26:10.37\00:26:13.08
Its available to everybody
00:26:13.11\00:26:14.47
but we have to make a choice
and you had to make a choice.
00:26:14.50\00:26:16.61
Right.
00:26:16.64\00:26:17.67
Do I have time to share
three texts of scripture?
00:26:17.70\00:26:19.65
I mean, oh, just some of.
00:26:19.68\00:26:21.49
We have less, we
have about a minute.
00:26:21.52\00:26:23.64
Hebrews 4:2, 12
00:26:23.67\00:26:26.11
Jesus was tempted in all points
like we are yeah without sin.
00:26:26.14\00:26:30.15
He suffered being tempted
and He resisted unto blood
00:26:30.18\00:26:33.85
and we can do the same thing
00:26:33.88\00:26:35.76
because He gives us
the power to do that.
00:26:35.79\00:26:37.43
That's very well.
00:26:37.46\00:26:38.95
I'm a believer
and you are a believer
00:26:38.98\00:26:41.79
and the purpose
of this series is to,
00:26:41.82\00:26:45.51
is to share what the Bible says.
00:26:45.54\00:26:47.15
We are not claiming
that we are perfect,
00:26:47.18\00:26:48.69
that we are, you
know, entirely holy
00:26:48.72\00:26:50.97
that we don't need any help
that we are still not tempted
00:26:51.00\00:26:54.56
but we believe in the Bible,
00:26:54.59\00:26:55.80
we believe in Jesus
Christ, we believe in His power
00:26:55.83\00:26:58.90
and we believe in this
verse that is so important
00:26:58.93\00:27:01.34
to Pastor Ron
and so many others.
00:27:01.37\00:27:02.89
2 Corinthians 5:17,
that says "If any man"
00:27:02.92\00:27:07.40
and that applies to you,
it applies to women, men,
00:27:07.43\00:27:10.24
boys, children, any human being
00:27:10.27\00:27:13.39
"who is in Christ,
he is a new creature,
00:27:13.42\00:27:17.20
old things have passed away,
00:27:17.23\00:27:19.59
behold, all
things are become new."
00:27:19.62\00:27:23.05
If you'd like to
order the 13-part
00:27:23.08\00:27:24.84
Coming Out stories
for $34.95 plus shipping
00:27:24.87\00:27:27.98
call 1-800-782-4253 or
write to White Horse Media,
00:27:28.01\00:27:32.38
PO Box 1139, New
Port, Washington 99156.
00:27:32.41\00:27:36.90
Pastor Ron Woolsey,
Wayne Blakely and Mike Carducci
00:27:36.93\00:27:39.49
are each available to
conduct a seminar in your area.
00:27:39.52\00:27:42.65
To schedule a
speaking engagement
00:27:42.68\00:27:44.23
contact Coming Out Ministries
by calling 360-936-8514
00:27:44.26\00:27:49.51
or visit
comingoutministries.org.
00:27:49.54\00:27:52.12