When most boys
grow up at some point
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they start liking girls
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and as most girls
grow up at some point
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they start liking boys.
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But it doesn't
always happen that way.
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We're gonna talk about this
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on the next
edition of Coming Out.
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Welcome back to
part two of Coming Out
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special series
produced by White Horse Media
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and its dealing
with homosexual issues,
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lesbian issues,
the Bible, Jesus Christ
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and God's love
and grace for all.
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I'm here now with Mike Carducci
who is also a cofounder,
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one of the cofounders
of Coming Out Ministries.
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He's traveled
quite a ways to get here
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and we just want to again--
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as I welcome
Wayne I welcome you.
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Thank you for joining us
for this special program.
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Thank you, Steve.
It's awesome to be here.
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Yeah it's awesome to have you.
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We don't know each other
that well but feel a connection.
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Oh, you will.
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A connection in Christ. Right.
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We don't have
the same background
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but there is a verse in
the Bible in Romans 3:23
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that says that "all have sinned,
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and come short of
the glory of God."
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So whatever sin we fallen
into we all have a common bond
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whatever it is
that we are sinners
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and that we
need, we need a Savior.
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Amen. Amen.
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Mike, one thing
I want to ask you
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which I was going to ask Waynee
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but I forgot and that is,
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is this kind of content
really appropriate for kids?
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I'm sure there's
parents that are watching this
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and maybe they're wondering,
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you know, should I
let my ten-year-old
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or my twelve-year-old
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or my eight-year-old
sit in on this series?
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So what's your thought on that?
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Well, one thing I found Steve,
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is you know the
more places that I speak
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and we even spoken
at a grade schools,
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you know,
seventh grade and younger
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but what we found is that
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the kids are
getting an education
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whether you're in
charge of that or not,
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you know, from the
school and the things that they,
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you know, handheld devices
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that have access to the Internet
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and what we found is that
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if a parent is
willing to watch this
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and to encourage
dialogue afterwards
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what you start doing is
taking the dirtiness out of it
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and the child can actually
find a connection to the parent
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to start being
open and to, you know,
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start to get healing
if they've been defiled
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and also to give them tools
that if something does happen
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or if they start to
have questions or temptations
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that they've already got
this established relationship
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where they can open a
dialogue with their parent.
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I think would be very beneficial
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but of course maybe a
parent would want to view the--
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The content first. Sure.
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And obviously,obviously
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parents have to
make their own decisions.
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We certainly leave
it up to your conscience
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but think the reality is that
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there's a whole
host of kids out there
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that are already being exposed
two things that are not good
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and are not being
presented in a biblical way.
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And so for a large
percentage for kids
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we think that this is something
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that they probably
really do need to hear
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and we will do our
best by the grace of God
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to keep things as
clean as possible.
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You know, we all have
that dirtiness in our past
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that we don't want to
you know take a bath in
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but there are things
we do need to talk about
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because we need to relate
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to our fellow
sinners in the world
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who struggle with
things that are very real
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and that need
to be talked about.
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So that's why we're doing this.
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So again thank
you for being here
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and Mike, why don't
you just, you know, go back
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and start telling us your story.
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I know that
with-- in Wayne's case
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as he looks back he had a very
difficult time with his mother
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and understand that with
you it was really your father.
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So time is yours
just start talking.
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Share.
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Well, when I came back
to God I-- I wanted to know
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why this thing had come
to me and you know I thought
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that I was born gay
from my earliest moments.
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I remember on liking to
do what girls like to do.
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I like dressing up
in my mom's clothes
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and playing with dolls
and I had three sisters.
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So basically
when I put that to God
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He started to answer me
through different sermons
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that I was hearing
and going to camp meeting
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and one of the things
that, that I found was
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this thing called
defensive detachment.
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And so they talk
about how every child
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is born with wet cement.
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You know they're--
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they have no
identity masculine or feminine
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but what happens as a little
boy turns to like a year old
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between a year old
and three years old
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what happens is the little boy
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starts to identify
that he doesn't have
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you know the same
parts that mom has
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but he has the
same parts that dad has.
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So in a healthy relationship
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the little boy starts
wearing baseball caps backwards
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because that's
what his dad wears
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or he starts
wearing cowboy boots
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because that's what dad does.
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And so he starts to make
this connection or transference
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from the mother to the father
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and that helps to harden
the cement in the masculine.
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For a boy. Excuse me.
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Right and so the girl
it's different, it's different
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but some of the
same gender identity
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mix-up happens I
think at an early age.
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For me what happened is
when my father was around
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he was in the Navy he began--
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What state, what
state were you in?
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Where did you grew
up? South Carolina.
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South Carolina. In Virginia.
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And you had a mother
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that was in your
home and your father
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but you didn't see him as much?
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Right, dad would
be gone sometimes
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three to six months
at a time on a cruise
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and so at a time
when I needed that
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that example he
wasn't available.
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So for me even though
the reality was he was,
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you know,
providing for his family
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and doing what
his job was for me
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I view that as abandonment.
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But then when my dad was home
he was as hot headed Italian,
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he was abusive in his discipline
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and so for me I looked at that
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and I thought if that's my
gender identity no, thank you
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and the only are
option I had was my mother.
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So I had the three sisters
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there was no
other male in the home
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to give me an example
of what that look like.
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And so there was this deficit
but I did know how to fix it
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and so I reverted
back to my mother.
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I start playing with
dolls and I believe that
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what happened is my cement
became affirmed in the famine.
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And so I didn't
know how to change it,
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I don't know how to fix it
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and so then
when I went to school
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and the kids started to see that
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you know, how the
kids got some issues
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and they started to
call me sissy, queer, faggot,
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you know all those terms.
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What that did is that pushed
away masculinity even further.
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And what age
would you say that was?
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From the
earliest I can remember.
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I can't even give you an age.
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And was this an
Christian school?
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No, not necessarily.
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No, public school. You
went to public schools.
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Right, I didn't go-- I
didn't become a Christian
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until I was about 14
but I knew who God wise
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and I believe
that God was there.
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I even prayed that
God would change me.
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I prayed that the next morning
I would wake up as a girl
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and I thought well, that
would be the problem fixed.
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But he didn't understand
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how this gender
identity was something
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that was broken
and how to fix it.
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And so for a little
kid I was just going
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through the
motions, very frustrated,
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unable to relate
to not only my gender
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but knew that I was different.
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So you felt like you
should have been a girl?
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Absolutely.
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And I'm just curious
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I'm certainly not
an expert in this area
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but I know people
say well, some say
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it's your genes some say
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it's what's going
on with mom and dad
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and then others
say well, you know
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maybe it not might
be either one of those
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but as you grow
older when you get to be,
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you know,
teenager you're exposed
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to more of the
influence of Hollywood
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and you just, you check it out.
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So there's
various opinions about
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why a person has
same-sex attractions.
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In your case as you look back
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do you see it as
really a father issue
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that that was that contributed
to your feelings for a man
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and wishing that
you were girl is that?
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It became so clear to
me, actually in my 40s
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after I had
come back to the Lord
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and was walking
in church culture
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it was all of a sudden
that I started to realize that
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that from my earliest thoughts
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I remember now not
necessarily being gay,
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not having an
attraction to same-sex
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but I-- the feeling
that I wanted to be a girl
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that I thought that I
should have been a girl
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and if I to had a sex
change at an early age
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what they are
doing now 14, 15-year-old
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boys are having
sex changes into a girl
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and vice versa if
that would happen for me
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because what
happened is when I came out
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into the gay culture
at 19 years old and 20
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all of a sudden all of
that gender dysphoria left me.
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I realized that masculinity
was more valuable in gay culture
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then they're not and
so if I had a sex change
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I can't even imagine
how much more complicated
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that would have been for me
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but I do realize
that there was this change
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and I didn't know how it came
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but as I ask God to
show and to reveal that to me
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I realized that
that this was something
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that happened
before I was even conscious
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and I wasn't in charge.
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And that was
incredible insight that that--
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Did you-- as you were growing up
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were you reading the
Bible or did you go to church,
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did you hear scripture?
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You said that you were praying
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and asking God to
change you into girl
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and you thought if
He would just do that
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then all my
problems will be solved.
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Where did you
learn about praying?
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I mean, I look
at back in my life
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growing up in
the Hollywood Hills
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and I really, I pretty
much connected with my mom
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and then definitely
connected with my dad
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and when I became a teenager
00:10:00.39\00:10:01.86
I was definitely
attracted to girls
00:10:01.89\00:10:03.97
but I was having a
hard time controlling that.
00:10:04.00\00:10:07.16
As I got into my teenage years
00:10:07.19\00:10:08.46
because we
didn't have the Bible,
00:10:08.49\00:10:09.52
we didn't pray, we didn't,
we didn't talk about Jesus
00:10:09.55\00:10:11.78
and also I was
pretty much on my own
00:10:11.81\00:10:13.48
to deal with all these emotions
and these feelings and desires
00:10:13.51\00:10:16.96
that pretty much
got the better of me
00:10:16.99\00:10:18.54
until I was 20.
00:10:18.57\00:10:19.73
Then I read the Bible
00:10:19.76\00:10:20.79
and that's when
everything changed.
00:10:20.82\00:10:22.74
So I'm interested to know
well, how did the Bible get in,
00:10:22.77\00:10:25.57
I didn't even know how to pray.
00:10:25.60\00:10:26.63
I wouldn't have known to
pray when I was 12-years-old.
00:10:26.66\00:10:29.83
Well, I was raised as a
Catholic as a young person
00:10:29.86\00:10:32.18
and I went to
catechism every weekend
00:10:32.21\00:10:35.60
I really didn't join
the Protestant church
00:10:35.63\00:10:37.70
until about 15.
00:10:37.73\00:10:39.19
My father had an affair
with a backslidden Christians
00:10:39.22\00:10:43.41
and they got together
00:10:43.44\00:10:44.63
and that's kind
of how we got into--
00:10:44.66\00:10:46.85
how the Protestant
message got into our family.
00:10:46.88\00:10:49.54
But I did know
God at an early age
00:10:49.57\00:10:51.91
and I saw Him as
punitive, arbitrary
00:10:51.94\00:10:55.13
just kind of like I saw my dad.
00:10:55.16\00:10:57.52
Dad wasn't
really available to me
00:10:57.55\00:10:59.00
and so the only way
that I could relate to a God
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who called
himself father was I guess
00:11:01.58\00:11:03.73
He had the same attributes
as the father that I had.
00:11:03.76\00:11:06.73
So even though I prayed
that he would change my gender
00:11:06.76\00:11:11.55
I still saw him as arbitrary,
judgmental the same things
00:11:11.58\00:11:14.88
that I had
rejected from my father.
00:11:14.91\00:11:16.65
I saw God that way.
00:11:16.68\00:11:18.37
I always knew the God
existed and I believed in Him
00:11:18.40\00:11:21.94
but I basically thought
that He didn't care much for me.
00:11:21.97\00:11:24.28
He wasn't very appealing.
00:11:24.31\00:11:26.76
Yes, and He
wasn't unavailable to me.
00:11:26.79\00:11:28.32
He is just an
authority out there
00:11:28.35\00:11:30.00
that you better do the
right thing or else there is no,
00:11:30.03\00:11:32.90
there was no
compassion in His heart for you.
00:11:32.93\00:11:34.91
You didn't feel that. No.
00:11:34.94\00:11:36.57
You know, well,
another question,
00:11:36.60\00:11:39.54
personally I wish
that in this series
00:11:39.57\00:11:42.12
you know we interviewed Wayne
00:11:42.15\00:11:43.77
we are interviewing you,
we have Pastor Ron Woolsey
00:11:43.80\00:11:46.79
who'll be coming
next sharing his story.
00:11:46.82\00:11:49.07
I wish that we had a lady
that it just didn't work out
00:11:49.10\00:11:52.31
but to have her, share her story
00:11:52.34\00:11:54.45
because
homosexuality, lesbianism
00:11:54.48\00:11:57.20
I know that
women are complicated
00:11:57.23\00:11:58.27
but do you think that
00:11:58.30\00:11:59.33
there's some of the same
issues going on with women
00:11:59.36\00:12:02.28
who as they're
growing up eventually
00:12:02.31\00:12:04.15
they choose or feel
attraction to another woman
00:12:04.18\00:12:09.45
and with men with men you know,
00:12:09.48\00:12:10.76
I would like to
just ask you a question.
00:12:10.79\00:12:12.82
Right, I can't
really speak specifically
00:12:12.85\00:12:15.55
but I have other friends
00:12:15.58\00:12:16.90
that have come out of
the lesbian lifestyle.
00:12:16.93\00:12:18.87
And one story
that that impresses me
00:12:18.90\00:12:20.84
in particular is
this girl was raised
00:12:20.87\00:12:24.35
not receiving the
love from her father
00:12:24.38\00:12:26.51
but the father lavished
00:12:26.54\00:12:27.82
a lot of attention
on her older brother
00:12:27.85\00:12:30.13
and so she thought
that if she was a better boy
00:12:30.16\00:12:33.41
that her father
would love her more.
00:12:33.44\00:12:35.26
And so that started to do this
00:12:35.29\00:12:36.57
gender
dysphoria for her as well.
00:12:36.60\00:12:38.50
She started to become,
you know, more boy like
00:12:38.53\00:12:41.56
and wearing boys clothes
00:12:41.59\00:12:43.09
and had the
same gender dysphoria
00:12:43.12\00:12:44.52
that I had experienced.
00:12:44.55\00:12:45.86
And so you each one of us
00:12:45.89\00:12:47.27
has incredibly
different scenarios
00:12:47.30\00:12:50.31
or you know
experiences that shaped us
00:12:50.34\00:12:52.77
and yet some other
things are very similar as well.
00:12:52.80\00:12:56.29
You know, I also understand
that there was a moment
00:12:56.32\00:12:59.35
or an event of
major trauma for you
00:12:59.38\00:13:02.83
that contributed to
your eventual plunge
00:13:02.86\00:13:08.23
or choice diving
in to a gay lifestyle
00:13:08.26\00:13:12.46
and just elaborate
on that a little bit
00:13:12.49\00:13:14.03
this traumatic event that you--
00:13:14.06\00:13:15.87
Okay. Told me that you had.
00:13:15.90\00:13:17.40
Yeah, will the
traumatic event was actually
00:13:17.43\00:13:20.08
when I was a junior in
high school in a boarding school
00:13:20.11\00:13:23.65
and the roommate that I got--
00:13:23.68\00:13:26.03
I didn't know
anyone at the school
00:13:26.06\00:13:27.18
and so the roommate I got was
00:13:27.21\00:13:28.85
experienced in
juvenile detention
00:13:28.88\00:13:30.64
and he was there
basically court-ordered
00:13:30.67\00:13:33.19
and he recognized things in me
00:13:33.22\00:13:35.78
I'm sure and you know one night
00:13:35.81\00:13:37.77
the wrestling
turned into something more
00:13:37.80\00:13:39.43
and I had my first
homosexual experience
00:13:39.46\00:13:42.24
there in this
Christian boarding school
00:13:42.27\00:13:44.16
and remember what
was so traumatic for me
00:13:44.19\00:13:46.13
Steve, was that when
I went to bed that night
00:13:46.16\00:13:48.12
I realize that
indeed I was the one thing
00:13:48.15\00:13:50.44
that everyone that
accused me of being
00:13:50.47\00:13:52.51
that I gone to bed that night
00:13:52.54\00:13:53.89
and it referring to
me that I indeed was gay
00:13:53.92\00:13:57.47
and that God couldn't
help me or He didn't help me.
00:13:57.50\00:14:00.40
I remember going
to bed and thinking
00:14:00.43\00:14:03.10
that it actually
satisfied something in me.
00:14:03.13\00:14:05.95
It actually-- I think what was
00:14:05.98\00:14:07.52
so shocking was
that it affirmed to me
00:14:07.55\00:14:09.76
that I indeed was
attracted to this.
00:14:09.79\00:14:13.16
And so I remember you know
00:14:13.19\00:14:15.30
going into the
next Bible conference
00:14:15.33\00:14:17.99
that they had at the school,
00:14:18.02\00:14:19.05
I gave my heart to the
Lord I got a girlfriend,
00:14:19.08\00:14:21.34
I started to do
all the right things,
00:14:21.37\00:14:22.93
my roommate got kicked out.
00:14:22.96\00:14:24.44
But even at 17
00:14:24.47\00:14:25.91
I prayed that the
Lord would take my life.
00:14:25.94\00:14:27.40
I said, I don't
want to live like this
00:14:27.43\00:14:29.34
and I asked Him
take my life right,
00:14:29.37\00:14:31.47
if that was as close
as we were gonna get.
00:14:31.50\00:14:32.62
So it was a
conflict and you recognize
00:14:32.65\00:14:34.62
that you part of you liked it
00:14:34.65\00:14:37.39
but another part of
you said I don't want this.
00:14:37.42\00:14:38.92
Right, right.
00:14:38.95\00:14:39.98
Lord, take it out of me
00:14:40.01\00:14:41.07
and you still had
desires to follow Jesus.
00:14:41.10\00:14:44.34
Right, but I was
still addicted to,
00:14:44.37\00:14:47.61
to masturbation and fantasy
00:14:47.64\00:14:49.43
and that had
happened at 13 years of age.
00:14:49.46\00:14:52.05
And so because it not only
was that same-sex attracted
00:14:52.08\00:14:55.42
but I believed that I wasn't,
00:14:55.45\00:14:58.56
I believe that that
actually was something
00:14:58.59\00:15:01.17
that was keeping God from
being able to help me even more
00:15:01.20\00:15:03.52
because the process
wasn't about becoming straight
00:15:03.55\00:15:06.88
I was praying
for the wrong thing.
00:15:06.91\00:15:08.10
What I wanted, what I needed
00:15:08.13\00:15:10.84
I believe was that
I needed to understand
00:15:10.87\00:15:12.72
and to be
affirmed by masculinity.
00:15:12.75\00:15:15.09
I needed to know what
masculine affirmation was
00:15:15.12\00:15:18.80
and gender identity
was that wasn't sexualized.
00:15:18.83\00:15:21.71
And so by the
time I was 20-years-old
00:15:21.74\00:15:23.48
I went out into
the gay lifestyle,
00:15:23.51\00:15:25.23
I was so desperate to
have this affirmation this,
00:15:25.26\00:15:31.12
this intimacy with the man
whether it was sexualize or not
00:15:31.15\00:15:34.46
I was definitely seeking it.
00:15:34.49\00:15:36.06
And Proverbs 27:7 it
talks about to somebody
00:15:36.09\00:15:38.68
that just had a full meal
that you don't need dessert
00:15:38.71\00:15:41.44
but to somebody who's starving
00:15:41.47\00:15:43.28
even something
bitter will taste sweet
00:15:43.31\00:15:44.79
and so that was the
driving force for me.
00:15:44.82\00:15:46.82
I had this demand to be
filled by masculine love
00:15:46.85\00:15:49.70
because I didn't know how
to get it in a legitimate way
00:15:49.73\00:15:52.33
I ended up going
into the gay bars
00:15:52.36\00:15:53.97
and my first experience
with the first boyfriend
00:15:54.00\00:15:57.35
that I had was
actually that I was raped
00:15:57.38\00:16:00.08
and I didn't even
realize that into my 40s
00:16:00.11\00:16:02.87
after coming out
of all this realizing
00:16:02.90\00:16:04.69
that I was so
desperate for any time
00:16:04.72\00:16:06.86
or attention that
this person gave me
00:16:06.89\00:16:08.67
that I actually was
willing to be submitted
00:16:08.70\00:16:10.67
to this rape several times
00:16:10.70\00:16:14.18
and I didn't even
realize the connection
00:16:14.21\00:16:15.83
until after coming out of it
00:16:15.86\00:16:17.42
that regardless of this drive
that had within me it still,
00:16:17.45\00:16:23.25
it still turned
out to be this rape.
00:16:23.28\00:16:25.07
So how many years would you
say you openly lived that life.
00:16:25.10\00:16:29.27
Twenty years. Twenty years.
00:16:29.30\00:16:30.88
And as we got near
the end to the 20 years
00:16:30.91\00:16:34.40
what happened to
end those 20 years
00:16:34.43\00:16:36.35
and begin a new
period in your life?
00:16:36.38\00:16:37.98
Right, I was hoping to
have a monogamous relationship.
00:16:38.01\00:16:41.21
I thought that
that if I could have
00:16:41.24\00:16:42.64
a monogamous relationship
00:16:42.67\00:16:43.85
that God would bless it
and that that would be the best
00:16:43.88\00:16:46.20
that I could do because--
00:16:46.23\00:16:47.26
With a man or a
woman? Yes, with a man.
00:16:47.29\00:16:49.21
Okay, you wanted a monogamous
relationship with a man.
00:16:49.24\00:16:52.11
And so the first relationship
that I was in it was a guy
00:16:52.14\00:16:55.21
that was about
nine years older than me
00:16:55.24\00:16:56.92
and he introduced me to
all kinds of sexual behaviors
00:16:56.95\00:17:01.12
and eventually within--
I'd say within two years
00:17:01.15\00:17:04.70
I become a sexual addict.
00:17:04.73\00:17:05.86
Acting out sexually
in the five relationships
00:17:05.89\00:17:08.43
that I was in, in the 20
years I was never faithful
00:17:08.46\00:17:11.18
and what was this driving force
00:17:11.21\00:17:14.53
all I really wanted
to be was affirm by a man
00:17:14.56\00:17:17.27
but what happen is
it got twisted somehow
00:17:17.30\00:17:20.44
and the enemy
was able to use that
00:17:20.47\00:17:22.50
and to create
this addiction that
00:17:22.53\00:17:25.34
that I was never able to brake,
00:17:25.37\00:17:26.70
never able to be monogamous
00:17:26.73\00:17:28.73
in of the
relationship I was in--
00:17:28.76\00:17:30.16
So what changed
what, what change that?
00:17:30.19\00:17:32.92
Well, a lot. So anyway--
00:17:32.95\00:17:34.95
One short version.
Right, right, right.
00:17:34.98\00:17:36.52
So anyway the night
before I got baptized
00:17:36.55\00:17:38.91
I made my stand for the Lord.
00:17:38.94\00:17:39.97
Now how you
decide to get that done?
00:17:40.00\00:17:41.27
Oh, it's a long time.
00:17:41.30\00:17:43.60
My sister had got
remarried to her ex-husband.
00:17:43.63\00:17:46.74
I saw the Holy Spirit in
him I came back to Florida,
00:17:46.77\00:17:49.84
my other sister invited
me to an evangelistic series
00:17:49.87\00:17:52.87
and I didn't realize about
my sisters had been praying
00:17:52.90\00:17:55.47
and to anyone
who-- who is praying
00:17:55.50\00:17:58.25
for their loved ones or whatever
00:17:58.28\00:17:59.48
I just want to
really encourage them
00:17:59.51\00:18:00.92
that
intercessory prayer it works
00:18:00.95\00:18:02.90
because it pulled me out.
00:18:02.93\00:18:04.19
So anyway I was
in a relationship
00:18:04.22\00:18:05.94
with this
millionaire good-looking guy
00:18:05.97\00:18:09.14
that had big blue eyes
and a convertible Mercedes
00:18:09.17\00:18:11.59
and I mean, I was
at the top of my game
00:18:11.62\00:18:13.41
and what happened is
00:18:13.44\00:18:15.00
my sister invited me
to an evangelistic series
00:18:15.03\00:18:17.48
and I don't know why but I went.
00:18:17.51\00:18:19.55
And so on the last night
of the evangelistic series
00:18:19.58\00:18:21.91
I made a stand to be baptized
00:18:21.94\00:18:24.06
and my sister asked me
outside in the parking lot
00:18:24.09\00:18:26.17
what I was going to
do about my boyfriend.
00:18:26.20\00:18:28.19
Man, I looked to
her and I said I'm gay.
00:18:28.22\00:18:29.81
I was born this
way, I tried to change,
00:18:29.84\00:18:31.83
I asked God to change
me that never happened.
00:18:31.86\00:18:33.86
I said, all I know is that
Jesus loves me for who I am.
00:18:33.89\00:18:37.93
I said and that's
why I'm getting baptized.
00:18:37.96\00:18:39.95
And my sister
stop and the next day
00:18:39.98\00:18:41.88
I was baptized with
the sexual addiction
00:18:41.91\00:18:43.53
and a boyfriend
00:18:43.56\00:18:45.02
but I began this
journey with Jesus Christ
00:18:45.05\00:18:47.25
and even in my
ignorance and even in everything
00:18:47.28\00:18:50.39
that happened to me
00:18:50.42\00:18:52.44
it's like the Lord was
very slowly revealing to me
00:18:52.47\00:18:55.51
the different
things that had defiled me,
00:18:55.54\00:18:57.24
the different ways
00:18:57.27\00:18:58.55
that the enemy had
put knots in my ropes
00:18:58.58\00:19:01.48
and very slowly the Lord
was able to unravel those knots
00:19:01.51\00:19:04.89
and it took, it took time.
00:19:04.92\00:19:06.15
There was no, you know,
bing, magic wand over my head
00:19:06.18\00:19:09.24
and I was straight
and ready the date, mate
00:19:09.27\00:19:11.77
and all that kind
of stuff so process.
00:19:11.80\00:19:13.91
It wasn't an instant cure?
00:19:13.94\00:19:14.97
No and you know
Steve, I really struggle
00:19:15.00\00:19:16.82
because I
thought that I was doing
00:19:16.85\00:19:19.07
something wrong again thinking
00:19:19.10\00:19:21.43
that I had to be perfect
with that, I had to be good.
00:19:21.46\00:19:24.14
I didn't recognize there
was Christ goodness in me
00:19:24.17\00:19:27.47
that gave me victory
and that took a long time.
00:19:27.50\00:19:30.52
Yeah, I've read recently
that the Christian life is not,
00:19:30.55\00:19:33.86
it's not an
elevator where you get in
00:19:33.89\00:19:35.58
and you go to the top floor.
00:19:35.61\00:19:37.21
It's a stair, stairway.
So you go step-by-step.
00:19:37.24\00:19:40.20
God takes you where
you are and even though
00:19:40.23\00:19:42.75
we're all messed up
in lots of ways all of us
00:19:42.78\00:19:45.63
God works with us step-by-step
00:19:45.66\00:19:47.55
and He changes
as maybe not as fast
00:19:47.58\00:19:50.35
as we would like to be changed
00:19:50.38\00:19:51.54
but if we stick with
it and keep trusting Him
00:19:51.57\00:19:54.91
and keep following the
Bible and choosing that we want
00:19:54.94\00:19:57.54
Jesus more than
some of our own desires
00:19:57.57\00:20:01.45
which may not be right.
00:20:01.48\00:20:02.51
Right so Steve,
where was that information?
00:20:02.54\00:20:05.22
I could have used
that because I thought
00:20:05.25\00:20:06.87
that I needed to
get baptized again
00:20:06.90\00:20:08.69
or maybe I needed
to get anointed again
00:20:08.72\00:20:10.70
because I was looking
for this instant change.
00:20:10.73\00:20:12.94
I didn't realize
that this was a process
00:20:12.97\00:20:15.32
because God knew that
it was going to take time
00:20:15.35\00:20:17.64
to change my understanding
about Him and about the Father
00:20:17.67\00:20:20.80
and so He couldn't
give it to me all at once
00:20:20.83\00:20:22.74
because I couldn't handle that.
00:20:22.77\00:20:24.16
So He gave it to me
as I could handle it.
00:20:24.19\00:20:25.22
Step-by-step.
00:20:25.25\00:20:26.28
That's right, and it
was always my decision.
00:20:26.31\00:20:28.97
You know, a lot of people,
you know, in other ministries
00:20:29.00\00:20:32.11
or whatever
look at my colleagues
00:20:32.14\00:20:34.07
and I and they say
that we're still gay.
00:20:34.10\00:20:36.08
And you know that's not the case
00:20:36.11\00:20:37.35
because this has
always been my decision
00:20:37.38\00:20:39.86
God never forced me to choose.
00:20:39.89\00:20:41.86
You know what it
be easier to just stay
00:20:41.89\00:20:43.72
at the way that I was
but what was so incredible
00:20:43.75\00:20:46.00
as I walked with
God He only gave me
00:20:46.03\00:20:48.18
what I could
handle and at my decision
00:20:48.21\00:20:51.62
it was always my
choice to continue or to not
00:20:51.65\00:20:54.86
and what's incredible
00:20:54.89\00:20:55.92
Jesus always
respected my right to choose.
00:20:55.95\00:20:58.17
And so today,
now you went 20 years
00:20:58.20\00:21:02.39
you grew up and went 20 years
00:21:02.42\00:21:04.06
and then it's been how
long since you came out?
00:21:04.09\00:21:07.46
Thirteen. Thirteen years?
00:21:07.49\00:21:09.49
So and now today God
has continued to change you,
00:21:09.52\00:21:13.19
He is doing
wonderful things in your life
00:21:13.22\00:21:15.29
and you are now part
of Coming Out Ministries.
00:21:15.32\00:21:17.49
Just tell us in a nutshell
what is Coming Out Ministries,
00:21:17.52\00:21:21.04
you know, from your perspective,
00:21:21.07\00:21:22.10
your heart, what's your burden,
00:21:22.13\00:21:23.74
what's your message,
what are you doing now?
00:21:23.77\00:21:26.16
And give us just a quick recap.
00:21:26.19\00:21:30.38
So when we started this ministry
00:21:30.41\00:21:33.59
and the Lord started moving me
00:21:33.62\00:21:35.00
just by invitations to
come and speak just about
00:21:35.03\00:21:37.78
my history of coming out
of the homosexual lifestyle
00:21:37.81\00:21:40.14
what I realize now is that
homosexuality is no different
00:21:40.17\00:21:44.33
according to the Bible
then than any other sexual sin.
00:21:44.36\00:21:47.60
And what we've done
in Christian societies
00:21:47.63\00:21:49.67
we taken homosexuality out
00:21:49.70\00:21:51.84
and we've made it
this entity of its own.
00:21:51.87\00:21:54.46
But basically from what
I understand in the Bible
00:21:54.49\00:21:56.44
and the responses
that I get when I speak
00:21:56.47\00:21:58.70
is that
homosexuality is no different
00:21:58.73\00:22:00.88
and it ends up back in the lump
with all the other sexual sin
00:22:00.91\00:22:04.18
and that God has to
have the answer for that.
00:22:04.21\00:22:06.21
Because my struggle was not only
00:22:06.24\00:22:08.18
for just homosexual
feelings and identity
00:22:08.21\00:22:11.78
but it was also over
sexual sin the pornography
00:22:11.81\00:22:14.49
and the addiction
the sexual addiction.
00:22:14.52\00:22:17.01
Whenever I speak
I speak to pastors,
00:22:17.04\00:22:19.18
I speak to young
men, young women,
00:22:19.21\00:22:21.86
older men, older women,
00:22:21.89\00:22:23.07
singles
ministries, men's ministries,
00:22:23.10\00:22:25.05
academies and universities
00:22:25.08\00:22:26.59
and what I find
is the same issue
00:22:26.62\00:22:28.31
that I had is the same issue
00:22:28.34\00:22:30.02
that many young men
and women of any age have
00:22:30.05\00:22:33.32
is the struggle with
sexual sin and what a find
00:22:33.35\00:22:36.00
is that the
answer is still the same.
00:22:36.03\00:22:38.08
And so it isn't
specific to one area or another,
00:22:38.11\00:22:42.04
what I find is that
00:22:42.07\00:22:43.22
this ministry
really speaks to all of us.
00:22:43.25\00:22:45.81
You know, are you
really different today
00:22:45.84\00:22:50.39
than what you were 30 years ago?
00:22:50.42\00:22:53.51
Absolutely.
00:22:53.54\00:22:54.58
You are not the
same man? No, no.
00:22:54.61\00:22:56.52
You are genuinely
changed. Right, right.
00:22:56.55\00:22:58.68
Now you are probably not done,
00:22:58.71\00:22:59.81
you know, I heard
somebody once say that
00:22:59.84\00:23:01.47
God doesn't take a
side to the oven half-baked.
00:23:01.50\00:23:04.07
He has a lot of
work to do with us
00:23:04.10\00:23:05.77
and He is working with me
and He is working with you
00:23:05.80\00:23:07.51
but you know in your
own mind and in your heart
00:23:07.54\00:23:11.37
that you made a lot of progress.
00:23:11.40\00:23:13.54
Steve, the hardest
thing has been this,
00:23:13.57\00:23:16.35
this constant surrender.
00:23:16.38\00:23:18.15
I have to
surrender myself every day.
00:23:18.18\00:23:20.57
I don't have the
luxury of surrendering myself
00:23:20.60\00:23:22.65
once in the morning
00:23:22.68\00:23:23.71
and being good
for the rest the day.
00:23:23.74\00:23:25.17
I have to
surrender myself constantly
00:23:25.20\00:23:27.23
throughout the day to
my thoughts, my feelings
00:23:27.26\00:23:30.44
and Philippians 2:5 is for me.
00:23:30.47\00:23:33.36
You can hang most of my home
ministry on that verse alone.
00:23:33.39\00:23:36.19
With does it say?
00:23:36.22\00:23:37.51
It says "Let
this mind be in you,
00:23:37.54\00:23:40.35
which was in Christ Jesus."
00:23:40.38\00:23:41.95
And to me that's invitational.
00:23:41.98\00:23:43.36
It's saying give me permission
to let my mind inside Your mind
00:23:43.39\00:23:47.79
and so whether that has to
do with thoughts of masturbation
00:23:47.82\00:23:51.06
or pornography or
even same-sex attraction.
00:23:51.09\00:23:54.66
What happens is if
I give God permission
00:23:54.69\00:23:56.74
and that's what I've
been practicing is I will say
00:23:56.77\00:23:58.87
Lord, I'm giving You permission
to take these thoughts
00:23:58.90\00:24:01.56
because if You
don't take these thoughts
00:24:01.59\00:24:02.99
I know that they're
gonna take me to place
00:24:03.02\00:24:05.00
that You say I shouldn't go.
00:24:05.03\00:24:06.90
And so when I
give Him permission--
00:24:06.93\00:24:08.82
one time that had happened
00:24:08.85\00:24:10.21
I was stepping into the
shower and the thought to,
00:24:10.24\00:24:12.88
you know, to indulge in sin came
00:24:12.91\00:24:14.48
and just then the
Holy Spirit spoken said,
00:24:14.51\00:24:16.49
why don't you
claim that promise?
00:24:16.52\00:24:17.75
And I said, I'm
giving You permission
00:24:17.78\00:24:19.44
Lord, to take these
thoughts because if You don't
00:24:19.47\00:24:21.46
I'm gonna
indulgence in sin, right.
00:24:21.49\00:24:23.52
And what was on
incredible is my next thought
00:24:23.55\00:24:25.72
was about baseball
and I hate baseball.
00:24:25.75\00:24:28.70
What was so incredible
00:24:28.73\00:24:29.81
is that God took me
immediately where I was,
00:24:29.84\00:24:32.49
He gave me victory immediately.
00:24:32.52\00:24:34.27
I didn't have to
step out of the shower
00:24:34.30\00:24:36.05
and fast for
five days and look up,
00:24:36.08\00:24:38.55
you know, scriptures for an hour
00:24:38.58\00:24:40.09
to get the relief
that I was seeking.
00:24:40.12\00:24:42.01
He was an
immediate God on to Him
00:24:42.04\00:24:44.00
who is able to keep
you from falling right.
00:24:44.03\00:24:46.08
The present help
in time of trouble.
00:24:46.11\00:24:48.06
So Mike, are you
happier now today than you were
00:24:48.09\00:24:53.04
when you lived an
openly gay lifestyle.
00:24:53.07\00:24:56.29
Well, it almost
seems it doesn't seem
00:24:56.32\00:25:00.06
even genuine to just say, yes.
00:25:00.09\00:25:01.85
Its Steve, infinitely better
00:25:01.88\00:25:03.99
is my life now than
it's ever been before
00:25:04.02\00:25:06.72
and even though I'm
under incredible scrutiny
00:25:06.75\00:25:09.66
and criticism I
can still tell you that
00:25:09.69\00:25:12.38
I would rather be in
the arms of Jesus now
00:25:12.41\00:25:14.86
than the arms of
the gay lifestyle.
00:25:14.89\00:25:16.98
Well, when Wayne was here
00:25:17.01\00:25:18.38
and we were discussing his story
00:25:18.41\00:25:19.90
I could hear you
in the background
00:25:19.93\00:25:21.67
before we were on
that camera with Wayne
00:25:21.70\00:25:24.42
I could hear you
singing and humming your,
00:25:24.45\00:25:26.41
you know, Christian songs like
00:25:26.44\00:25:27.66
my little boy he
his nine-years-old
00:25:27.69\00:25:29.44
and I heard him
just singing about
00:25:29.47\00:25:31.50
Jesus around the
house the other day
00:25:31.53\00:25:32.56
and through it my heart like
00:25:32.59\00:25:33.80
I heard the same thing from you.
00:25:33.83\00:25:35.31
So it just shows me
that you are genuinely
00:25:35.34\00:25:38.36
happy with your life
and happy to be here,
00:25:38.39\00:25:41.86
happy to share story
00:25:41.89\00:25:43.69
and that this
is very real to you
00:25:43.72\00:25:45.11
and that God is real to
you and is that you know,
00:25:45.14\00:25:47.34
if you put it in
nutshell your message now
00:25:47.37\00:25:49.71
is you're out there in colleges,
00:25:49.74\00:25:51.94
universities, academies,
00:25:51.97\00:25:53.46
young people, older people,
00:25:53.49\00:25:55.06
with pastors sharing your story.
00:25:55.09\00:25:56.99
What in a nutshell
would you say your message is?
00:25:57.02\00:26:01.80
The message really is
about getting to know God.
00:26:01.83\00:26:04.72
It's invitational.
00:26:04.75\00:26:06.35
He is wanting us to know
Him on such an intimate level
00:26:06.38\00:26:08.72
and you know what,
when I started to see Him
00:26:08.75\00:26:11.21
on an intimate level
then it started to give me
00:26:11.24\00:26:14.80
the desire to want to let go
the things that define myself.
00:26:14.83\00:26:18.94
And as I saw Him more
and more what happened is
00:26:18.97\00:26:22.11
things started to fall
off no matter where I went
00:26:22.14\00:26:24.81
and I started to
see the victorious life
00:26:24.84\00:26:26.51
that I could have
been Him and I thought
00:26:26.54\00:26:28.55
that it came at a huge sacrifice
00:26:28.58\00:26:29.91
to give up the
things that I love
00:26:29.94\00:26:31.83
but really when I started
to let those go the things
00:26:31.86\00:26:34.08
that I received Steve,
they were more powerful
00:26:34.11\00:26:36.91
and better and stronger than
I had ever experienced before.
00:26:36.94\00:26:39.59
So God is not just
a the father figure
00:26:39.62\00:26:42.19
you used to
think of Him as being
00:26:42.22\00:26:43.85
but now he is God of love
who has changed your life.
00:26:43.88\00:26:46.83
Well we're winding
down here with program two,
00:26:46.86\00:26:49.46
we got another testimonial.
00:26:49.49\00:26:51.64
Pastor Ron Woolsey will be next.
00:26:51.67\00:26:54.32
I can't help but
go back to this verse
00:26:54.35\00:26:56.02
so I want to go back to
the verse in 1 Peter 2:9
00:26:56.05\00:26:59.88
that talks about
God who has called you,
00:26:59.91\00:27:02.87
He's called you out of darkness
and into His marvelous light.
00:27:02.90\00:27:08.11
I got Mike story.
00:27:08.14\00:27:09.85
Mike has his story,
Wayne has his story,
00:27:09.88\00:27:12.44
Pastor Ron has his story.
00:27:12.47\00:27:13.64
There are many others stories
that we can share that we know
00:27:13.67\00:27:17.54
and other people can
share about how God is good
00:27:17.57\00:27:21.44
and that His light is marbles.
00:27:21.47\00:27:24.01
He can change our
lives, He can heal us,
00:27:24.04\00:27:26.39
He can forgive us and give us
00:27:26.42\00:27:28.35
peace and power to live for Him.
00:27:28.38\00:27:31.13
So don't go away
00:27:31.16\00:27:32.19
we've got another program
part three of Coming Out.
00:27:32.22\00:27:35.69
So join us again.
00:27:35.72\00:27:38.67
If you'd like to
order the 13-part
00:27:38.70\00:27:40.52
Coming Out stories
for $34.95 plus shipping
00:27:40.55\00:27:43.70
call 1-800-782-4253
00:27:43.73\00:27:46.77
or write to White Horse Media,
00:27:46.80\00:27:48.14
PO Box 1139, New
Port, Washington 99156.
00:27:48.17\00:27:52.61
Pastor Ron
Woolsey, Wayne Blakely
00:27:52.64\00:27:54.36
and Mike Carducci
are each available
00:27:54.39\00:27:56.01
to conduct a
seminar in your area.
00:27:56.04\00:27:58.37
To schedule a
speaking engagement
00:27:58.40\00:27:59.88
contact Coming Out Ministries
by calling 360-936-8514
00:27:59.91\00:28:05.15
or visit
comingoutministries.org.
00:28:05.18\00:28:07.76