Welcome to
Celebrating Life In Recovery,
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I'm Cheri your host.
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Wayne are we going to
talk about homosexuality today?
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Um, that's what I hear. -
Oh man, you have to join us.
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Hello, you know what
this program is amazing to me.
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I say that with every
program because we have some
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incredible guests, but
before we get into the program
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I want to tell you a
couple weeks ago I was at church
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and my Pastor who is Randy
Maxwell, an incredible Pastor,
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but my Pastor was doing a
whole series on the life of
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Christ, the life of Jesus.
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And it was brilliant, if
you want to go online, go online
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find it, it was just brilliant.
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The last day I was sitting
there and he wraps it up and
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I'm in awe of
how he wrapped it up.
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Then all of a sudden Bruce
Marciano walks in and I don't
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know if anybody knows him but
he played Jesus in a film called
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The Gospel According to Matthew.
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It's my favorite film on
Jesus, and he walks in and I'm
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like oh stop, and I
know his whole story.
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I know that his whole recovery,
or his spiritual recovery
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anyway happened during
the making of that movie when
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he was playing
the life of Christ.
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He really learned and
understood who God was.
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There were times that he
just wept and wept and couldn't
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even do the scene because
the Holy Spirit just showed him
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exactly what Jesus went
through during that time.
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But there was one scene in that
movie that got to me, and he
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did stuff that was
so real in that scene.
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Some of the stuff that he
did was there was a point where
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he heals this
guy that has leprosy.
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The guy is just riddled with
leprosy in parts of his body
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has deteriorated, or been
cut off because lepers can't
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feel well and the skin is flaky.
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You could tell his nose, he
had half a nose and all that
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stuff in this leper was
walking by and he looked up and
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he is covered with these
rags because lepers were kicked
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out of the community and weren't
allowed to be around anybody.
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So he just has rags on, and
he puts the rag over his face
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and kneels down and he says
to Jesus, I know that if You
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wanted to You could make me
clean, You could make me well.
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In the film, Jesus turns
around and tears up and He says,
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I do want to, be clean.
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All of a sudden, in that moment,
the guy is totally healed and
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the skin is like baby skin.
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In the Gospel according to
Matthew, they go word for word
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by the Bible, they
don't add anything, or take
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anything away, so
word for word by the Bible.
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So when he turns around to
Jesus, and he is totally clean,
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he jumps up and screams and
starts crying, then he starts
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laughing, and then runs
to Jesus and leaps on Him.
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They both fall on the ground
and busting up, just laughing,
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just holding each other.
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I thought, you know what, I
bet that is how it happened.
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I bet it just didn't
happen where he was cleaned and
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healed and said no thank
you so much and walked away.
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Of course he was
thrilled, of course it was this
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incredible thing, so
the movie really got to me.
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There was one scene where
Jesus is talking about the
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Beatitudes and that stuff and
He's talking, He talks about the
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speck in your
brothers eye, you know?
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While he is talking, he
sees a log laying there and he
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picks up the log and he
tries to hold it in front of his
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face, in His own eye.
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It says it is like you were
trying to get a speck out of
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your brothers eye when
you have this log in yours.
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He tries to hold it and it kinds
of tilting back and forth and
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telling his brother come
over here so I can get the
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speck out of your eye, but
he has this huge log in his eye,
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well everybody starts laughing.
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I thought that is probably
how it happened too, that it
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was that Jesus used what
was around Him to make the
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illustrations about whatever
He was making at the time.
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In that particular illustration
he said we tend to look at
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people, we look at what you're
doing wrong, or what you're
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doing wrong, or what kind
of sins you have in your life.
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I'm not even paying attention
to log that I am carrying
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around in comparison
to the one you have got.
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Remember that on this particular
program you are going to
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want to bring up some
judgments, as some of you have
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strong opinions about
what we are going to talk about
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today, well I'm going to beg
you, be careful because we are
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all walking around with
this huge log and trying to get
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specks out of
other people's eyes.
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So on that note, Wayne I
want to thank you for coming
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on the program. - absolutely.
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You know what I
am saying? - I do.
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So when I talk about that
kind of thing, first of all
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have you ever felt judged?
- I have, yes definitely.
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From the beginning,
from the very beginning.
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From the time you walked into
the church or from the time you?
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- from the time I was born.
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Okay, so I want to even go
there because I want by the
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end of this
program, I want to know you.
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Do you know what I
mean? - absolutely.
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I can't know you like God knows
you, but I want the audience,
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the people in the
café, I want everyone
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to know you and your struggle,
and your walk, and what
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broke your heart, and
what filled you with joy.
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Because you are somewhat like
this leper that says, I know
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that if You wanted
to, You can make me clean.
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Yes, when you were speaking
about that I thought that is
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exactly who I identify
with prior to being born.
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My natural mother walked
with me during that pregnancy
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and during those particular
times they didn't have the
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sonography and all
that they have today.
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So she didn't know
which gender would be born.
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But people that knew her
and were around her, she would
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continually say to
them, I'm having a baby girl.
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They would say, oh
really how do you know that?
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She says, I don't know
I'm just having a baby girl.
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- you just feel it. - yes I know
it and I'm not going to have
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a baby boy because I
only want a baby girl.
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Therefore she had it planted
in her mind throughout the
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entire pregnancy that was
the intent and that is what
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would happen, it was almost
like she could have forced
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the gender by her thinking.
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Then as soon as I was born
she rejected me immediately
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because I wasn't that little
precious baby girl she had
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hoped for. - and I think
that only in heaven are we
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going to understand that
even as a fetus, even as an
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infant we can
feel that rejection.
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We can feel when we are not
wanted or loved, we know it.
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- yeah. - somebody
says an infant doesn't know
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anything, I don't buy that.
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Well the first two to three
years, the most impressionable
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years, so they pick up
while they are not communicating
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verbally, they are taking
in all the senses that are
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around them so they know
innately know what is going on
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from a mother and whether
the love is there or it is not.
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- Amen! so what happened?
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There was little she
could do about the fact,
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she couldn't give it back
and so she tried to make do.
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She had, I have a sister who was
or is a year older than me and
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so she was living on an
Air Force Base at the time.
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My natural father was gone
pretty much all of the time.
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- because he was in the
service? - in the Air Force.
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He had a career
in the Air Force.
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Neighbors begin to indicate
to him that they thought
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perhaps I wasn't being
treated with the best of care.
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He thought they were nosy
neighbors and didn't give it
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as much consideration as maybe
he should have at the time,
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but he came home from
one of his assignments one
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time and noticed that my arm,
my left arm was in a bandage
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and a sling and he thought
it might be a big indicator,
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my natural mother
said I had bursitis.
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He took it as a signal
that it probably wasn't bursitis
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in a little young infant.
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So he had his relatives,
his sisters in California,
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Southern California that
said they would go ahead and
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take me and watch
over me for awhile.
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I was eventually adopted
by an aunt and uncle who are
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now my parents. My dad
was an x-ray technician at the
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time that they took me,
they took me and had my arm
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x- rayed and it was
broken in two places. - wow!
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So the rejection was
immediate and then the rejection
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that ensued, or the reaction
to that abuse and to the
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rejection of my mother
began to shape my life.
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Right, and you know when
you talk about that, your dad
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even though in his heart,
was trying to do the right thing
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by sending you to an aunt
and uncle and you have the
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rejection by your father.
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You know what I mean,
because he is still not around.
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Right, right. Yeah I
don't know that I really thought
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of that too much at the time.
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He did visit throughout the
years and we stayed in close
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contact so I don't, I
think what probably affected me
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the most was the
rejection of my natural mother.
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But at a young age I began to
act out, by the time I was two
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and three years old I was
running around the house with
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scarves and whatever I
could find and say, yelling and
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screaming, I don't want to
be a boy, I want to be a girl.
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- if you were a girl
everything would have been okay?
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Well it would have
been perfect I guess.
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Yeah, in my mind I guess because
it had been drummed in, it had
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been drummed in prenatally
and I believe postnatally
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no one really knows exactly
what all took place in the
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time my mother
was alone with me.
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But I am sure she must
have pretended that I was that
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baby girl, so it was a big
indication that this is some
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thing I see as when you
talk about what brings about
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homosexuality, I think
homosexuality can come from
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so many different sources.
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It can come from the early
stages of prenatal influence.
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It can come from
postnatal experiences.
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It is not something that
somebody just walks into and
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chooses. - right, so to me
what is really tough is that
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on a topic that I know it will
be tough like this, I want to
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tell the viewer I don't
care where you are at on this
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particular point, I want them
to fall in love with the heart
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of this child, if
you know what I mean?
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Let's let everything fallout
the way it is going to fall
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out, but first fall
in love with this child.
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So you are running around
trying to be that, scarves and
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probably have fantasies
that I am a little girl and all
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that stuff and would
imagine now your parents,
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your adoptive parents
are trying to fix that.
00:12:21.84\00:12:25.27
They can't fix
that. - no, they couldn't.
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I mean everyone was a
little stunned because it wasn't
00:12:28.71\00:12:33.41
something that you normally saw.
00:12:33.45\00:12:35.67
So not having the desires
for little toy cars and soldiers
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and cowboys and Indians
and trucks, things were a bit
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concerning to them, and
when they put those things in
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front of me and tried to
get me to interact with them
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I would still go back and I
wanted a doll for Christmas.
00:12:53.23\00:12:58.50
I had interest in creative
things, in color and in design.
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They would keep trying to
realign me to some form of
00:13:03.80\00:13:08.36
masculinity. -
here's a G.I. Joe, come on.
00:13:08.40\00:13:10.58
Like what's up with you.
- some transformers come on.
00:13:10.62\00:13:13.93
Go hit somebody.- Thankfully
they prayed to God before they
00:13:13.96\00:13:17.96
adopted me and felt
impressed by God to take me in
00:13:18.00\00:13:22.00
and keep me as their child.
00:13:22.03\00:13:23.80
But little did they know
what laid ahead of them and
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I certainly didn't
know what laid ahead of me.
00:13:26.31\00:13:28.59
But by the time I began
to attend school these traits
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just continued to grow.
00:13:36.21\00:13:38.20
From the first day of school
until the last I didn't want
00:13:38.23\00:13:42.87
to be there because the
harassment, the teasing,
00:13:42.91\00:13:46.72
the bullying,
bullying is not a good thing.
00:13:46.75\00:13:50.48
Talk about bullying, because
there has been in the news
00:13:50.52\00:13:53.10
even bullying to the
point of people being murdered
00:13:53.14\00:13:55.65
and killed and definitely
suicidal and suiciding, so you
00:13:55.68\00:14:00.09
got all that stuff because
we can be horrendously cruel
00:14:00.13\00:14:04.57
to each other and if anything
is out of the norm we have
00:14:04.61\00:14:08.27
talked on other programs
about out of the norm people
00:14:08.31\00:14:11.80
kind of gather around and
it is almost like pack animals
00:14:11.84\00:14:15.30
sometimes with how
we treat one another.
00:14:15.33\00:14:18.46
You experienced
that in school. - I did.
00:14:18.49\00:14:21.55
I would come home from
school sometimes because of the
00:14:21.58\00:14:24.97
teasing and harassment and
I would go into the bathroom
00:14:25.00\00:14:28.40
and I would close the door
and I would stand in front of
00:14:28.43\00:14:33.26
the mirror and I would punch
my face and say, God why did
00:14:33.29\00:14:37.54
You, why did You make me a
boy when I'm supposed to be
00:14:37.57\00:14:41.93
a girl, and there was
nothing I could do about it.
00:14:41.97\00:14:47.14
I can't even imagine
having to be in that much pain.
00:14:47.17\00:14:52.01
That I just want to, I
just want to hurt myself.
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I do not want to be this.
00:14:56.88\00:14:59.11
And then to have to
come out of the bathroom.
00:14:59.14\00:15:02.27
If you know what I mean,
you have to open the door and
00:15:02.30\00:15:04.24
come out. - right. -
I have to wash my face.
00:15:04.28\00:15:07.79
Yeah, and go back
to school another day.
00:15:07.83\00:15:11.28
I learned, I only learned
this a couple years ago but
00:15:11.31\00:15:15.65
there was a kid that was
getting beat up on the way
00:15:15.69\00:15:19.96
home from school who the
people that beat him up thought
00:15:19.99\00:15:25.35
they were beating me up. - Wow!
00:15:25.38\00:15:28.50
So I can only imagine the
pain that, that inflicted on
00:15:28.54\00:15:32.99
that individual that was
perfectly normal, or what was
00:15:33.02\00:15:37.44
considered to be
normal. - yeah, yeah.
00:15:37.47\00:15:40.33
Because you know there
is no normal today. - right.
00:15:40.36\00:15:43.98
That is, to me, the saddest
thing is that I work with people
00:15:44.01\00:15:48.12
all the time, and you are
struggling with this one thing.
00:15:48.15\00:15:52.02
All the way across the
board we struggle with different
00:15:52.06\00:15:56.56
things, but for some reason
society picks certain sins,
00:15:56.59\00:16:01.40
or certain lifestyles, or
certain leanings as that is
00:16:01.43\00:16:05.71
unacceptable and you
had one that was in a lot of
00:16:05.75\00:16:09.96
communities unacceptable
and which then puts it in the
00:16:10.00\00:16:13.59
shadow so you have to try
and pretend you are not that.
00:16:13.63\00:16:17.35
You have to pretend that I
don't have these struggles about
00:16:17.39\00:16:21.28
wanting to be a girl and
all that stuff I can't say out
00:16:21.31\00:16:24.90
loud to anybody because
they freak out or get abusive.
00:16:24.94\00:16:29.58
So then I step into my teen
years and what does that look
00:16:29.62\00:16:34.00
like, because at one point
did you ever get to the point
00:16:34.04\00:16:38.34
where I just accept this, I
just accept this is who I am
00:16:38.38\00:16:42.65
and I don't care
about what you feel anymore?
00:16:42.68\00:16:45.47
Did you ever get to that
point of rebellion or anger?
00:16:45.50\00:16:50.50
I did, on the way there I
had what I currently see as
00:16:50.54\00:16:55.51
probably has happened to a
number of heterosexual men.
00:16:55.54\00:17:01.32
There is in those early
teen years, there is what may be
00:17:01.35\00:17:06.17
considered a natural sexual
exploration with one another
00:17:06.20\00:17:10.99
that they never
speak of to this day.
00:17:11.02\00:17:13.67
They cork that and never
let that surface, but to me
00:17:13.70\00:17:17.58
when that happened I
saw that as acceptance.
00:17:17.61\00:17:21.35
Let's talk about that
because people don't talk about
00:17:21.39\00:17:24.68
that. Like when I going
to high schools and colleges
00:17:24.72\00:17:27.96
people will mention that
to me is that a lot of times,
00:17:28.00\00:17:30.91
especially nowadays, but it
has always kind of been that
00:17:30.94\00:17:34.14
way is that you will have
girls experimenting with girls
00:17:34.17\00:17:36.98
or boys experimenting
with boys, and it is not every
00:17:37.02\00:17:39.79
single child, but
it is enough. - Yes!
00:17:39.83\00:17:42.32
Nobody ever, it is just
experimentation or whatever is
00:17:42.36\00:17:47.32
in people's minds and what I
know is that there is a writer
00:17:47.36\00:17:53.26
in my church, Ellen
White that is incredible.
00:17:53.30\00:17:56.25
She has incredible gifts,
but she said at one point that
00:17:56.29\00:17:59.92
as we come to Christ that
all our generational sin's,
00:17:59.95\00:18:03.52
cultivated sins which are things
we act out with and continue
00:18:03.55\00:18:07.83
to act out with and find
desires for and now wants for.
00:18:07.87\00:18:11.68
We seek after all of
those things with our recovery,
00:18:11.72\00:18:14.80
and with the baptism of
the Holy Spirit, or the gift of
00:18:14.84\00:18:17.89
the Holy
Spirit, gets dealt with.
00:18:17.93\00:18:20.28
But you are talking about
in school, at that same-sex
00:18:20.32\00:18:24.03
experimentation is
now being cultivated.
00:18:24.06\00:18:26.62
People don't
talk about that. - no!
00:18:26.65\00:18:28.81
The reason I want to break
here is because I want to say,
00:18:28.84\00:18:31.63
I want to look at the
camera and say, if you are there
00:18:31.66\00:18:34.38
and you have always felt
guilty or a shame about that
00:18:34.42\00:18:37.53
take that to God, He knows
exactly what we are dealing
00:18:37.56\00:18:40.93
with, He knows exactly what
we play around with as kids.
00:18:40.97\00:18:45.08
I was five years old the
first time a same-sex situation
00:18:45.11\00:18:49.14
happened with me and I can't
tell you how years and years
00:18:49.17\00:18:52.64
and years I thought I
wonder if I am all that kind of
00:18:52.68\00:18:56.11
stuff. God says you
know what? Bring that to Me.
00:18:56.14\00:18:58.63
Don't let your own mind or
the devil himself play with
00:18:58.67\00:19:02.39
that, let Me have those things.
00:19:02.43\00:19:04.80
So now you are in high
school and playing around with
00:19:04.84\00:19:08.58
all that stuff and finding,
again reinforcing the fact
00:19:08.61\00:19:12.32
that I should've been a girl.
00:19:12.35\00:19:15.06
Yes I was, when I had that
mutual sexual experience with
00:19:15.10\00:19:23.47
other guys I began to
think that I was normal.
00:19:23.50\00:19:27.09
I thought oh finally I
have been accepted, it was an
00:19:27.13\00:19:32.31
affirmation that all guys
must do this and go through this
00:19:32.34\00:19:36.17
and then this went on
for a year or, maybe two.
00:19:36.21\00:19:41.05
Then these guys began to
say, well they weren't really
00:19:41.09\00:19:45.92
interested in this anymore,
or that they were interested
00:19:45.96\00:19:50.75
in girls and I thought
okay I'm a little late.
00:19:50.79\00:19:53.73
You know I kept waiting for
that to click and to kick in.
00:19:53.77\00:19:58.87
But it didn't go away, I
still wanted the love and the
00:19:58.91\00:20:03.13
masculinity and the comfort
that there seemed to be when
00:20:03.16\00:20:07.35
I was around another
guy as opposed to a woman.
00:20:07.39\00:20:11.71
When I was in my high school
years, or long before then
00:20:11.75\00:20:18.20
I should say that I already
recognized in God's word that
00:20:18.23\00:20:24.65
something wasn't adding up.
00:20:24.68\00:20:26.79
Because your family was
Christians, so they had,
00:20:26.83\00:20:30.30
so you're family was Adventist
and were going to church and
00:20:30.33\00:20:34.18
you were in the Word
of God? - absolutely.
00:20:34.21\00:20:35.85
So you are saying, man?
Yeah to go back a little bit.
00:20:35.89\00:20:41.13
When I was a kid and I was
being recognized that these
00:20:41.16\00:20:45.34
traits were taking
place, these feminine traits and
00:20:45.37\00:20:48.96
whatnot, my parents
began to look to the church.
00:20:48.99\00:20:52.50
They began to look to Christian
psychology, something that
00:20:52.54\00:20:57.49
could give them a clue
as to what was going on and
00:20:57.53\00:20:59.97
what to do about it. - Right!
00:21:00.00\00:21:01.65
A little while they were
more active trying to figure out
00:21:01.69\00:21:06.13
maybe more silently than, and
I was also silently trying to
00:21:06.17\00:21:10.58
figure out with
God what happened.
00:21:10.62\00:21:13.39
Because if I'm going according
to Your word here I am starting
00:21:13.43\00:21:18.20
to shape up and beginning
to look more like a homosexual.
00:21:18.24\00:21:21.28
From what I read
in the Your word,
00:21:21.31\00:21:23.24
that is not an
accepted practice.
00:21:23.27\00:21:25.13
So let me just say, and I
don't want to offend anyone,
00:21:25.16\00:21:30.17
especially you Wayne, because I
am considering you a friend and
00:21:30.20\00:21:35.45
we are starting to get to
know each other and that stuff.
00:21:35.49\00:21:38.42
But during, I've never had
a Christian hold up a sign and
00:21:38.45\00:21:42.97
say God hates fags,
if you know what I mean?
00:21:43.01\00:21:45.59
Or God hates drug addicts
or whatever, but you see signs
00:21:45.62\00:21:50.49
and anger and all kinds of
stuff with the very thing that
00:21:50.52\00:21:55.36
is happening in
your life you are seeing
00:21:55.39\00:21:56.94
Christians really raging about.
00:21:56.97\00:22:00.04
With my addictions, with
drugs, with homelessness,
00:22:00.08\00:22:03.31
with molestation or whatever
people don't hold up signs
00:22:03.35\00:22:06.55
with those and so not only
are you dealing with your own
00:22:06.59\00:22:10.41
stuff, not only are you getting
bullied at school and that
00:22:10.45\00:22:14.20
kind of thing but if you in fact
are going in this direction you
00:22:14.24\00:22:18.20
have really no where to
get support? - that is right.
00:22:18.23\00:22:21.52
Yeah that is right. - I
can't imagine what that was like
00:22:21.55\00:22:24.72
and when did you realize
the anger and the rage that some
00:22:24.75\00:22:27.88
even people of God have?
00:22:27.91\00:22:30.94
Well, you know in the
church for me adults behaved
00:22:30.97\00:22:36.94
differently then the
youth, and the way the adults
00:22:36.97\00:22:42.86
behaved where with a bit of
silence and standoffishness'
00:22:42.90\00:22:48.12
and some whispering and a
discomfort from being around you
00:22:48.15\00:22:53.34
It was like they knew
something I didn't know.
00:22:53.37\00:22:56.49
But they weren't
sharing it with me.
00:22:56.52\00:22:59.07
- they just knew you are
not acceptable. - different.
00:22:59.10\00:23:02.77
What is really interesting
is that because nobody is
00:23:02.81\00:23:07.03
speaking it is not acceptable
and to me I can't, that
00:23:07.07\00:23:11.25
rejection again, like
the rejection with your mom.
00:23:11.29\00:23:15.40
You know what I mean it is
just painful - very painful.
00:23:15.43\00:23:18.07
I wish that somehow,
there is no way to explain to
00:23:18.10\00:23:22.14
somebody what that pain
looks like, or feels like.
00:23:22.17\00:23:26.13
I wish there was, I wish
there was some way that somebody
00:23:26.17\00:23:30.47
could look on the
outward side and see your pain.
00:23:30.51\00:23:34.02
Especially during those
years because I know it was
00:23:34.05\00:23:37.68
significant. - yeah I
think I was well into my 20s
00:23:37.71\00:23:41.27
before I recognized one day,
I said I don't think I'm not
00:23:41.30\00:23:47.31
crying every day and prior
to that every day had at lease
00:23:47.34\00:23:53.32
by the time I went to bed
I was hugging my pillow or
00:23:53.35\00:23:57.57
burying my head. - or
hitting yourself in the face.
00:23:57.61\00:24:02.92
Yeah that too. - wow, so
did you ever at one point
00:24:02.96\00:24:08.24
just say I am done?
I'm done with all this?
00:24:08.27\00:24:10.98
I did, I began to go to
work after I graduated from
00:24:11.01\00:24:19.38
high school and
was out on my own.
00:24:19.42\00:24:22.62
I wanted to go and explore
because I knew that something
00:24:22.65\00:24:26.96
was missing in my life and
I wanted to find some joy and
00:24:26.99\00:24:31.26
some happiness and I was working
at Loma Linda University.
00:24:31.29\00:24:36.52
There was an orderly that
worked on the unit with me, and
00:24:36.56\00:24:41.75
he was just a wildcat, he
was just funny, he was crazy.
00:24:41.78\00:24:46.87
He had my attention all the
time, and he said you need to
00:24:46.90\00:24:51.32
talk to my roommate Glenn.
00:24:51.36\00:24:53.49
So he got Glenn on the phone
and I spoke with him on the
00:24:53.53\00:24:57.45
phone for a while and he
seemed like a really nice guy.
00:24:57.49\00:25:01.38
He says oh you are
just gay, you are gay.
00:25:01.42\00:25:04.03
I said I am what?
And he said, you are gay.
00:25:04.07\00:25:06.61
I said what, I don't
know what you mean by that,
00:25:06.65\00:25:09.64
what is that? Because at
that particular time the word
00:25:09.67\00:25:13.32
had just barely surfaced.
00:25:13.36\00:25:15.62
I went to meet them at
their apartment and developed
00:25:15.65\00:25:21.67
a friendship with him
and he introduced me to
00:25:21.71\00:25:24.65
my first gay bar. - so
then the lifestyle opens up.
00:25:24.68\00:25:28.86
- right. He walked me into
a bar and I said all these men
00:25:28.90\00:25:32.74
in here are gay? And
he said yeah they are.
00:25:32.78\00:25:36.08
I said Oh man, I
cannot believe it,
00:25:36.11\00:25:38.52
I thought it was in heaven.
00:25:38.55\00:25:39.68
I mean I thought it was -
I finally fit - no judgments.
00:25:39.71\00:25:43.48
Everyone was happy, everyone
was laughing and they wanted
00:25:43.51\00:25:47.24
to get to know you, they had
no judgment on you whatsoever.
00:25:47.27\00:25:52.05
So let's break some stereotypes
right now because what
00:25:52.09\00:25:56.33
someone will say is
they all just wanted sex.
00:25:56.37\00:25:59.39
Do you know what
I mean? - yeah I do.
00:25:59.42\00:26:01.68
Because we look at our whole
orientations and we just take
00:26:01.72\00:26:06.45
it down to an act, but
your heart longed not so much,
00:26:06.49\00:26:10.07
not saying sex wasn't a
part of anything but your heart
00:26:10.11\00:26:13.30
longed to be accepted and
to be loved and to laugh and
00:26:13.34\00:26:16.50
not have all that pressure.
00:26:16.54\00:26:18.05
Yeah, well I finally, the Devil
is very clever about how he
00:26:18.09\00:26:23.78
introduces deception and he
knew what I was looking for.
00:26:23.82\00:26:29.48
He know I was looking for
warmth, care and for love.
00:26:29.52\00:26:34.66
If he could provide that
even in a simulated way, whether
00:26:34.70\00:26:38.79
or not it was genuine, he is in.
00:26:38.83\00:26:41.69
So I did, I began to find
men and engage in sexual act's
00:26:41.73\00:26:48.40
but more than that it was
the warmth of being hugged.
00:26:48.44\00:26:55.08
When you where lying naked
next to someone the total body
00:26:55.11\00:27:00.22
warmth that you had up against
that person - that you didn't
00:27:00.26\00:27:05.33
even have from
a mother. - right.
00:27:05.37\00:27:07.29
I have just say that to a
lot of people that will just
00:27:07.33\00:27:10.44
be offended by that
imagery, you didn't even have
00:27:10.47\00:27:12.78
that by a mother, you
didn't even have that in
00:27:12.82\00:27:15.09
any part of your life.
00:27:15.13\00:27:16.89
So sometimes we want to
push away from those kinds of
00:27:16.93\00:27:21.29
realities, but the reality
is for a lot of us is that
00:27:21.33\00:27:25.40
we will, we will sell our
soul to the devil almost to
00:27:25.43\00:27:29.46
feel loved, to feel warm.
00:27:29.50\00:27:32.74
What you are saying is
that I was so starved that,
00:27:32.77\00:27:36.97
that moment was worth
everything that I had to go
00:27:37.00\00:27:41.16
through to get to
that moment. - yes.
00:27:41.19\00:27:43.00
Again if anybody picked up
that plank, be careful right
00:27:43.03\00:27:48.93
now, just be careful because
God is crazy about you Wayne.
00:27:48.97\00:27:54.84
Thank you, I
know. - okay go ahead.
00:27:54.87\00:27:57.28
That was the introduction
to the cycle of finding relief
00:27:57.31\00:28:04.84
and some kind of, as a casting
off of a huge burdens that
00:28:04.88\00:28:10.71
laid upon me in knowing that
you were loved and accepted.
00:28:10.75\00:28:16.54
So that for some people, not
all people, but significantly
00:28:16.58\00:28:22.34
in the gay community it
begins a cycle of sexual
00:28:22.38\00:28:26.79
addiction. - okay so now
we are going to stop on that.
00:28:26.83\00:28:29.56
We are going to take a
break and come back and not only
00:28:29.60\00:28:32.87
talk about, a little bit
about what that cycle is about,
00:28:32.91\00:28:37.40
but I want to hear what
your journey back to God like,
00:28:37.44\00:28:41.90
and that is incredible to me.
00:28:41.94\00:28:43.41
Because the judgments we
have on each other can take us
00:28:43.45\00:28:46.83
down, but God never condemns,
He says, you know what?
00:28:46.86\00:28:50.62
I promise you, if you
trust Me, all the pain you have
00:28:50.66\00:28:54.18
carried on your life, all
the rejection, all be confusion
00:28:54.22\00:28:57.64
about all this kind of stuff,
I have known you since you
00:28:57.68\00:29:01.07
were in the womb and I
adore you, I adore you.
00:29:01.10\00:29:04.94
We will be right
back, stay with us.
00:29:04.98\00:29:06.88