Welcome back, you were here
with Jennifer's Schwirzer and
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we are talking about her life
and the things that happened
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to her along the journey.
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The reason we are talking
about that is that we don't go
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down with one event.
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We really sometimes go all
the way from our birth and get
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hit with different things
that eventually we take a fall.
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I really believe there is
a God, I really believe there
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is a devil and I think
strategically we are sometimes
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studied, where
are our weak areas?
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Where can charges be set
and when the devil takes us down
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he takes us down easily
with our natural leans in one
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direction or another.
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But what recovery does, it
says let me strengthen those
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areas in your life so
you don't go down with those.
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You look at them and deal
with them and surrender them
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and you learn from them.
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You minister with your
weak points, but it doesn't take
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you down and that's
why I think the most
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incredible thing is.
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If you're watching and
thinking about your own stuff
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good, you have to hang
with us during this part of the
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interview because
this part is the good part.
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Is Jennifer when we left
on break we were talking about
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all the different things
that lead you to the point where
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you are now finding in
relationships in school what
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you longed for your whole life.
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So now you are doing
drugs, you're in relationships,
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you still are
probably doing good in school
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because you were bright,
you are one of the brightest
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women that I know is far
as I have seen you study over
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the years, I've seen you
write some of the stuff you put
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together is brilliant
even in your own recovery.
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So I know that probably
even in that high school
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academic realm you did well.
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I've always been kind of a nerd.
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I'm saying you're bright
and you're saying you're a nerd.
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What is wrong with that picture?
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Well anyway, so yeah I'm
in this relationship in high
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school and everything went
on for three years basically
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and in the middle of it he
broke up with me and my heart
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is broken and I went
into deep depression.
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Then we ended up getting
back together and I broke up
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with him the second time,
not in retaliation but just
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because I actually
lost interest in him which
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I thought never would
happen, that was toward
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the end of high school.
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Then I began my journey
post-high school leaving my
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parents home and
going to college.
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First-year college was
experimenting with a lot of
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different religions and I
got deep into New Age religion
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deep into their teachings.
- what does that look like?
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I had originally been
introduced into eastern
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religions through my back Doctor
who told me to do yoga because
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I have a curvature of the spine.
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My back is never bothered
me but he told me I needed to
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do this so I could
strengthen my back.
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So I started reading on
yoga and ended up meditating.
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So I was like you said kind
of a hippie, into meditation,
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and then yoga
and all this stuff.
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I was experimenting with
these New Age religions and
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my first year of college, I
was at a college that was an
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alternative school where
the nonconformists of the world
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came and kids ended up
studying whatever they wanted
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to study pretty much.
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There was a fairly strong
witch and warlock contingency
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at the school and there
was a real strong lesbian
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feminist movement
so there was all these
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really edgy people.
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What people do not
realize is that out of those
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environments, a lot of people
in those environments come
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from their pain and their
dysfunction but they study
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things out, what
philosophies were and what they
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underlying thing was and
I think we are seduced into
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those kinds of
things because of our junk.
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Each of these religions
has a philosophy or theology
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behind them and it is
for someone who likes to read
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and likes to think,
it is very attractive.
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I was very disciplined
and would get up every morning
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and meditate, I was more
disciplined about meditation
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then I am now about prayer.
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I would get up meditate in
front of my Terrarium every
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morning, and count on beads,
but after a year of that I
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realized I was still very lonely
and so it was this gap between
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how spiritual I thought I was,
but then my basic heart needs
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were not met. - what's
interesting to me is when
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I look at people and
their recovery and myself in my
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recovery is that a lot of fixes
if they are not real they have
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a grief reaction
attached to them.
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Because everything in the
fix says that I found it and
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this should meet all my
needs, but when I am in my quiet
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moment I am grieved because,
am I not just doing it right?
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It's like the philosophy that
was being put across to me was
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if you just do this long enough
and hard enough you should
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be fine and I was doing
long, and I was doing it hard
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and being really disciplined
and I was still broken.
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So that it became something
wrong with me and it further
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increased my sense
of isolation you know.
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What's really, I have a
friend that is amazing, very
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bright, very incredible and
she is like you in that way.
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She has this altar set up
where she has a cool gong and
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she hits it and it makes a
certain noise and resonates and
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then she goes into
meditation or whatever.
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She has all this stuff,
even little idols that she has
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the gods and all that stuff,
but these are just made out
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of wood so there is a
point in her quiet time that she
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knows that this is just a
piece of wood and I am dying
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inside and that's what I
mean is that those things that
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promise to fix us, mine
was heroin which was much more
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reliable than that
piece of wood, because
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I had a physical
change right away.
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It's like when we reach out
to something that actually is
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not real, it is not going
to work, is that the grief that
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happens on the underlying
foundation, that is a deep
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sadness, a deep grief.
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I remember one evening going
out and meditating by a pond.
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I lived in the countryside
of Michigan and was going to
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the school and I lived in a
farmhouse, anyway I went out
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to meditate and
listen to the crickets.
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I sat by the pond and if
you sit there long enough they
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are going to start chirping
again because they have gotten
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used to you, the
sound was overwhelming.
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I thought if this
doesn't help me reach nirvana or
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whatever it was nothing will.
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I got up and I remember getting
up afterward and realized
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I was no different and
my heart was still empty.
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I was walking home along
this country road and I look up
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into the sky and there was
these beautiful stars, because
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it's out of the country, it
wasn't that I heard an audible
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voice, but it was almost
audible and said I forgive you.
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And suddenly I
knew there was a God.
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Were you going to
give me a high five?
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- I was just saying
Amen. Just praise God on that.
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Because God says please
look here because I'm real.
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Then I ended up in a
little Pentecostal Church that
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I could walk to because I
didn't have a car and it was
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like within walking distance
of this home in the country.
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So I would walk there
and they would be - Wahoo.
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I'm a vegetarian right and
I'm into reincarnation, or at
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least I was, and this Pastor
got up and he was obviously
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not very healthy, he was
very large and he said when
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we all get to heaven
were going to go out and have
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a big thick juicy steak.
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I was like what? I'm
already a vegetarian.
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So then I felt like he
had to eat meat again if I was
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going to be a Christian and
I went home and tried to eat
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some meat and I
remember not liking it.
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It is so funny when I hear
people say I had to give up
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meat, I wanted to be a
vegetarian and be healthier so
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I had to give up meat
and I did the exact opposite.
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So I became a Christian
in the midst of all that and
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started
witnessing to my friends.
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Was there a sense, because
I'm following you on the last
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segment and this segment
and my heart breaks for this
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child that is just like
you want to fit in somewhere,
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and I just want to be
loved and to find that space.
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When you became a Christian
and when you were quiet with
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God in your alone time what
did it feel like to know you
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really for a
moment found that space?
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If the peace that
passes all understanding.
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I felt Okay, I felt loved, I
knew I was loved and I couldn't
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keep it to myself.
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I was in the midst of
witches, warlocks and lesbians
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and these people were
not particularly opened to
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Jesus saves and Jesus is
the only one. - Stop! Shut up!
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So I had people cursing me
out and hanging up the phone
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or people not even speaking
to me, but amazingly a few of
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my friends ended up
tracking with me for awhile.
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There was little community
about 30 miles away that was
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run by Seventh-day Adventist.
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Seventh-day Adventist are
vegetarians, some of them.
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So I ended up going to their
community and eating their free
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vegetarian food, because
they were handing out food and
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it was really good
for a college student.
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So a couple of my friends
and I ended up moving there.
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Going from that environment
of witches, warlocks and
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lesbians feminist to straight
laced, and this particular
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ministry was really pretty
fanatical in some respects.
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In terms of how strict they
were about certain things so
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the women had to all wear
really long dresses and the men
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well it was very strict.
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Very focused on the rules
overall, but somehow in the
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midst of that I cultivated
my relationship with Jesus.
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But there were other dynamics
going on, like I remember
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waking up every morning
and feeling the sense of
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condemnation. - oh, so
you're back under pressure?
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Yeah because the girls
were so sweet and perfect.
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Like Little House on the
Prairie with her hair in a bun,
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my hair's never
been, it's got a will of
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its own my whole life.
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It's like feeling, like I
was so crass compared to them.
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I would accidentally say
let's go to Sunday school and
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little kids go,
it's Sabbath school.
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I would feel so inferior
you know and I couldn't get a
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grip - I just want to
say God so forgive us.
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So I felt like a misfit
there but I found one thing that
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I could do that would give
me an edge and make me feel
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like it was okay.
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That was to basically starve
myself, so I stopped eating
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very much and became
full-blown anorexic within a few
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months of being there.
00:10:04.24\00:10:05.56
In that environment where
people are trying to work their
00:10:05.59\00:10:08.80
way to heaven and they are
using nutritional food and that
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sounds like what you
fell into, is that for you to
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eat really well and
looks good, they don't look at
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I think she might be in trouble.
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Well I figured if eating
a Spartan diet is good then
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eating even less is better
and so I thought this is the way
00:10:26.84\00:10:29.79
to become more holy, and this
is the way to get rid of this
00:10:29.83\00:10:32.75
gnawing sense of
condemnation inside of me.
00:10:32.78\00:10:35.03
It sort of worked because
when you don't eat well it
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spaces you out and it
really takes, it reduces who
00:10:39.18\00:10:43.23
you are as a person really.
00:10:43.26\00:10:44.70
Your brain doesn't work
well as well and your emotions,
00:10:44.73\00:10:46.96
you don't do anything your
body doesn't do anything that
00:10:46.99\00:10:49.18
isn't absolutely necessary
for survival when you're
00:10:49.22\00:10:52.31
starving so there I was
almost like a drug high,
00:10:52.35\00:10:55.38
because of low blood sugar
and feeling really spiritual.
00:10:55.41\00:10:59.18
But it wasn't true spirituality.
00:10:59.22\00:11:00.81
So then what happened
was people warned me and
00:11:00.85\00:11:04.16
they didn't like what I
was doing to their credit,
00:11:04.19\00:11:06.78
as much as it was legalistic
environment there were
00:11:06.82\00:11:09.21
people that were
really caring and good people,
00:11:09.24\00:11:11.56
they were like you
are on a bad track here.
00:11:11.59\00:11:13.84
My mother was very concerned
and sent me to a couple of
00:11:13.88\00:11:17.98
therapists, one I just
argued, he was a Christian,
00:11:18.02\00:11:20.88
I just argued doctrine
with him the whole time.
00:11:20.92\00:11:23.71
The other one I went in, I
remember him telling me he was
00:11:23.75\00:11:26.66
frightened of me because I
don't know why, I weighed 95
00:11:26.70\00:11:29.58
pounds and it was like
why are you afraid of me?
00:11:29.61\00:11:32.19
And that is what he left
me with, so neither of those
00:11:32.23\00:11:34.69
really worked out.
00:11:34.72\00:11:35.89
Can I just ask you because
there are a lot of people
00:11:35.92\00:11:38.07
watching, a lot of people
I work with that have jumped
00:11:38.10\00:11:40.21
into bulimia or anorexia.
00:11:40.25\00:11:42.28
That slide into that, can
you explain to us and those in
00:11:42.32\00:11:47.66
the café will kind of
things goes through your mind to
00:11:47.70\00:11:53.00
rationalize that
slide to make it okay?
00:11:53.04\00:11:55.94
Yeah, well it is another
self fix like we were talking
00:11:55.97\00:11:59.35
about before, everything
we do to try fix that sense of
00:11:59.39\00:12:02.70
condemnation we have ends up
making it worse in the long run.
00:12:02.74\00:12:06.56
I just transferred from
sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll to
00:12:06.59\00:12:09.84
an eating disorder
once I became a Christian.
00:12:09.88\00:12:12.03
So I don't know if
that was your question.
00:12:12.06\00:12:14.14
You know like in our minds
- how do you rationalize it?
00:12:14.17\00:12:17.55
How do you rationalize
it, what kind of thoughts go
00:12:17.59\00:12:20.93
through your head?
00:12:20.97\00:12:22.03
There were text, things
that are read that seemed to
00:12:22.06\00:12:25.29
validate what I was
doing and the fact that
00:12:25.33\00:12:29.12
I felt more
spiritual it really did give me
00:12:29.16\00:12:32.92
a temporary sense of freedom.
00:12:32.96\00:12:34.43
A lot of people that are looking
at these eating disorders
00:12:34.47\00:12:40.56
there is a time that it is
health, actually seems to work.
00:12:40.59\00:12:45.71
There is that time that I'm
getting all those toxins out
00:12:45.74\00:12:49.23
of my body and I am cleaning
up and I am healthier and all
00:12:49.27\00:12:52.74
that stuff and then it goes
into where my body is dying.
00:12:52.77\00:12:56.21
Well here's something
really practical to be really
00:12:56.24\00:12:59.22
blunt, I had always had
trouble with relationships when
00:12:59.25\00:13:02.19
I was a teenager and
getting into relationships.
00:13:02.23\00:13:04.31
Now I had no sex drive, so
the first thing that goes when
00:13:04.35\00:13:07.58
not eating is your sex drive,
it goes out the window so it
00:13:07.62\00:13:10.82
was like great
this is what I wanted.
00:13:10.85\00:13:12.85
I have control even here.
- I have no more problems.
00:13:12.89\00:13:18.12
Even for folks that have
been sexually abused, when that
00:13:18.16\00:13:23.35
goes for them eating
disorders they feel safer.
00:13:23.39\00:13:26.53
So really the dynamics and
the rationalization and the
00:13:26.57\00:13:30.82
things they get set up
in your head, the negative
00:13:30.85\00:13:34.18
thinking goes all the
way down to basic survival so
00:13:34.22\00:13:37.22
I don't have a thousand
things that are tormenting me.
00:13:37.25\00:13:40.40
I have one thing. - that
is so true of eating disorders
00:13:40.43\00:13:43.55
the simplifying, the
way of simplifying life.
00:13:43.58\00:13:46.95
If I could just be this
thin, and eat this much,
00:13:46.99\00:13:50.32
and weight this
much then I am okay.
00:13:50.36\00:13:52.46
So it is a self reduction
thing where you to reduce
00:13:52.49\00:13:55.88
yourself down to
one simple thing.
00:13:55.92\00:13:58.48
It really cuts across how
complex and really our potential
00:13:58.52\00:14:02.70
as human beings. - but for
our torment, what a relief.
00:14:02.73\00:14:06.88
- it was a relief. - it
feels like such a relief.
00:14:06.92\00:14:08.91
People try to make a really
complicated during all that
00:14:08.95\00:14:13.02
time of setting this up is
that it is not it gets more
00:14:13.05\00:14:17.08
complicated, it
actually gets more simple.
00:14:17.12\00:14:19.34
It becomes all about one
piece of food that I'm going
00:14:19.38\00:14:22.96
to eat, whatever it is
you choose and I'm going to
00:14:23.00\00:14:26.54
choose that one thing.
00:14:26.58\00:14:27.98
For some people it is a bagel
and a glass of orange juice
00:14:28.01\00:14:32.08
I'm going to eat that everyday.
00:14:32.12\00:14:33.68
I mean it gets real
simple. - yeah, yeah.
00:14:33.71\00:14:35.84
So yeah here I am skin and
bones and actually at my lowest
00:14:35.87\00:14:39.52
weight I was 85 pounds.
- wow, how tall are you?
00:14:39.56\00:14:43.27
I'm 5'6" and I hover around
110 so I am a thin person and
00:14:43.30\00:14:47.62
that complicates the issue
because I wrote a book on this,
00:14:47.65\00:14:51.94
I'm afraid people -
Dying To Be Beautiful?
00:14:51.97\00:14:55.02
- yet dying to be beautiful
and I'm afraid people will
00:14:55.06\00:14:58.02
look at me and assume I am
still suffering but I actually
00:14:58.06\00:15:00.97
went on for about three
years and then I haven't had any
00:15:01.01\00:15:03.46
dealings with its since
and have no desire to go back.
00:15:03.49\00:15:06.31
I eat high calorie food
whenever I get a chance, I just
00:15:06.35\00:15:09.13
happened to be the body
type that is ectomorphic,
00:15:09.17\00:15:12.58
I just tend to be thin person.
00:15:12.61\00:15:15.00
Anyway in the midst of this
I'm about 95 pounds and into
00:15:15.04\00:15:21.50
that place comes this man
and he wants to court me, or to
00:15:21.54\00:15:27.97
date me and he has been
through an eating disorder
00:15:28.00\00:15:30.84
himself. You know there's
two kinds of anorexic one is
00:15:30.87\00:15:34.24
very related to fashion and
people want to be thin and it
00:15:34.27\00:15:37.60
takes on a life of its
own and they get emaciated.
00:15:37.63\00:15:40.22
Another one is spiritually
focused and that was what
00:15:40.26\00:15:43.07
I was dealing with, I was
trying to be holy not so much
00:15:43.10\00:15:45.80
thin but holy, it wasn't
about fashion it was about being
00:15:45.83\00:15:48.49
spiritually fashionable
- getting closer to God.
00:15:48.53\00:15:50.97
So he had been through some
thing like that before he was
00:15:51.01\00:15:53.45
a Christian, he got involved
in the eastern religious
00:15:53.49\00:15:55.89
cult, he almost
died of starvation.
00:15:55.93\00:15:59.61
He was at this community
type of thing and ate so little
00:15:59.65\00:16:04.16
that he ended up renting an
apartment and collapsed on the
00:16:04.19\00:16:07.58
floor and couldn't eat it
all, and couldn't get up and
00:16:07.61\00:16:11.00
a girl came and nursed him back
to health with chicken broth
00:16:11.04\00:16:14.39
and he revived and
lived through the experience
00:16:14.43\00:16:17.19
but he had been there.
00:16:17.22\00:16:18.55
So He saw me from a distance
and he felt that God had called
00:16:18.59\00:16:21.52
him to, now this is an
ideal situation, to date me
00:16:21.56\00:16:26.77
and like save me
from this illness.
00:16:26.81\00:16:29.59
So we ended up courting and
we courted for about six months
00:16:29.62\00:16:34.11
and after we got married I
gained weight because for the
00:16:34.15\00:16:38.60
first time in my life I
felt someone was there and
00:16:38.64\00:16:41.54
it was unconditional love.
00:16:41.57\00:16:43.97
What is really interesting
and he saw me through all that
00:16:44.00\00:16:47.13
stuff, through all that
junk is that for the first time,
00:16:47.16\00:16:50.38
because dad didn't see me,
people at school didn't see me,
00:16:50.41\00:16:53.59
and finally somebody
actually sees who I am.
00:16:53.63\00:16:55.46
Well and a lot of times
when someone has an eating
00:16:55.49\00:16:57.75
disorder people gets so
worried that they ride on the
00:16:57.79\00:17:00.56
person and they are constantly
focusing on the eating
00:17:00.59\00:17:03.70
disorder and they reinforce
that person's tendency to
00:17:03.73\00:17:06.80
over identify with
their eating disorder.
00:17:06.84\00:17:08.98
So what Michael did
was he saw me as a person.
00:17:09.02\00:17:12.28
He saw me as a whole
person and I ended up becoming
00:17:12.32\00:17:14.87
the whole person
that he saw me as.
00:17:14.90\00:17:17.62
Explain that a lot, or
elaborate on that because for a
00:17:17.65\00:17:21.73
parent they are so afraid
- I know they're terrified.
00:17:21.76\00:17:25.80
They're terrified
because her child could die.
00:17:25.83\00:17:27.95
So the tendency is to
focus on what they are eating or
00:17:27.98\00:17:30.29
what they are not eating
and what they are doing or what
00:17:30.33\00:17:32.62
they're not doing instead
of - weighting them all the
00:17:32.65\00:17:34.65
time - or trying to send
them to different doctors and
00:17:34.69\00:17:37.82
all that can be good, but
it can get to the place where
00:17:37.86\00:17:40.96
you are not addressing
them as a person anymore.
00:17:40.99\00:17:43.69
I'm not seeing Joyce as
Joyce, I'm seeing Joyce as
00:17:43.72\00:17:46.38
whatever problems she has.
00:17:46.42\00:17:47.88
I am reinforcing that
tendency for her to think that,
00:17:47.91\00:17:50.98
that is all she is.
00:17:51.02\00:17:52.44
So when Michael saw me
as a whole person he saw my
00:17:52.48\00:17:57.12
spirituality, he saw my
potential, he was a bit older
00:17:57.15\00:18:02.03
than me so he was more
mature but he saw me like a bud
00:18:02.06\00:18:06.53
about to bloom and when I
saw myself through his eyes it
00:18:06.57\00:18:10.20
was very therapeutic and
I think that is true of God.
00:18:10.23\00:18:14.63
He sees us as a finished
product, if you take the word
00:18:14.67\00:18:18.71
in Christ and you Google
it in the Bible you find every
00:18:18.74\00:18:22.33
verse that talks about in
Christ or uses that phrase,
00:18:22.37\00:18:26.20
you will see that believers
are literally scores of
00:18:26.24\00:18:30.04
things in Christ that
they aren't right now.
00:18:30.07\00:18:32.33
But God sees us as complete
in Christ because He knows
00:18:32.37\00:18:36.53
that eventually
we will get there.
00:18:36.56\00:18:38.36
He now sees us that way Himself
and when He looks at us He
00:18:38.39\00:18:41.82
sees this finished product
and when we grab a hold of that
00:18:41.86\00:18:45.26
we can identify with who
we will become and start to
00:18:45.29\00:18:48.17
become more like that.
00:18:48.20\00:18:49.61
So that is basically what
happened in the context of
00:18:49.65\00:18:52.10
my relationship with my
husband because he saw me as
00:18:52.14\00:18:54.55
a whole person, he
was a tree planter.
00:18:54.59\00:18:57.77
So I had to cook over a
fire and wash my clothes in the
00:18:57.81\00:19:01.07
creek - for a
hippie that's good stuff.
00:19:01.11\00:19:06.11
I know it was perfect so I
had to carry trees up, like he
00:19:06.15\00:19:08.25
would be on the mountain
and doing tree planting and
00:19:08.28\00:19:10.44
I have to carry these
seedlings up in a backpack
00:19:10.48\00:19:13.16
and mountains this
steep so I had to be strong.
00:19:13.19\00:19:15.80
It forced me out of my
skinny frail mode into someone
00:19:15.83\00:19:23.11
stronger and I started
to idealize being strong.
00:19:23.14\00:19:25.68
Let me just ask you for
people that have struggled with
00:19:28.57\00:19:32.07
eating disorders and an
especially anorexia is being
00:19:32.11\00:19:35.82
able to say the journey
coming back and learning to eat
00:19:35.86\00:19:39.54
again and all
that, what was that like?
00:19:39.58\00:19:41.95
Because it is a journey.
00:19:41.98\00:19:43.55
It's true it is hard for
me to eat and eat normally as
00:19:43.59\00:19:48.14
it is for someone who
eats too much to eat less.
00:19:48.18\00:19:50.53
I know because your stomach
is shrunk, you are not used
00:19:50.57\00:19:53.62
to handling that amount
of food so I felt like I was
00:19:53.66\00:19:56.67
over eating. - you're
talking about just a few bites?
00:19:56.71\00:20:00.35
It's not just the quantity
of food, in fact anorexics
00:20:00.39\00:20:04.00
are great at getting
a lot of volume and make
00:20:04.04\00:20:07.04
it look like
they are eating a lot.
00:20:07.08\00:20:08.24
Oh look I'm eating tons
but it's salad, carrots.
00:20:08.27\00:20:11.32
- tater tots? - no not
tater tots it's stuff that
00:20:11.36\00:20:14.34
causes more to digest and
more calories to digest than
00:20:14.37\00:20:17.50
you get from eating the
food so it is stuff that is
00:20:17.53\00:20:20.11
super low in calories
that's what anorexics do.
00:20:20.14\00:20:22.64
- even to me what is interesting
about that disorder is
00:20:22.68\00:20:26.05
you are brilliant about
food after a while - I know.
00:20:26.09\00:20:29.43
You know the calorie
intake of everything.
00:20:29.47\00:20:31.98
Websites of people talking
to each other about that stuff.
00:20:32.01\00:20:33.90
I used to study nutrition
books and look at the calorie
00:20:33.93\00:20:36.16
content of everything so
I would eat very low on the
00:20:36.19\00:20:38.38
calorie chain so to speak.
00:20:38.42\00:20:39.70
So but once I
started eating regular food
00:20:39.74\00:20:42.83
I felt like I was indulging,
it felt like overeating.
00:20:42.87\00:20:46.71
I had to walk over that
feeling, I deal a lot with false
00:20:46.75\00:20:50.55
guilt in counseling. -
talk about what that is for
00:20:50.59\00:20:54.18
somebody that
doesn't know what all?
00:20:54.21\00:20:55.62
It's where you feel
guilty about something
00:20:55.66\00:20:57.23
that isn't wrong.
00:20:57.27\00:20:58.62
In my case I felt guilty
about eating normally thinking
00:20:58.66\00:21:02.19
that it was wrong. - and
wrong on a deep level and
00:21:02.23\00:21:06.28
what somebody says they
will look at you and say that's
00:21:06.31\00:21:09.28
ridiculous, everybody
knows intellectually that it is
00:21:09.32\00:21:12.26
ridiculous, but I don't know.
00:21:12.29\00:21:14.05
But I was warped in my
thinking so to me to be really
00:21:14.08\00:21:17.00
spiritual I had to eat
this Spartan diet and if I would
00:21:17.03\00:21:19.72
eat more the man I would
be losing my spirituality.
00:21:19.76\00:21:22.79
For somebody that's fashioned,
if I eat anymore than that
00:21:22.83\00:21:25.83
I will never be
pretty, I will never be.
00:21:25.87\00:21:29.24
So yeah I had to learn to
walk over these feelings to say
00:21:29.28\00:21:32.64
this is normal and this
is what I need to eat and I'm
00:21:32.68\00:21:36.01
going to eat it
whether it feel guilty or not.
00:21:36.04\00:21:38.30
So I think a lot of believers
fall into that false guilt
00:21:38.33\00:21:41.62
thing were I feel
guilty, I must be guilty.
00:21:41.66\00:21:43.95
This must be wrong
because I feel it is wrong.
00:21:43.98\00:21:46.20
What they need to do is to
take that feeling and compare
00:21:46.24\00:21:49.20
with the Word of God and
make sure that their balanced.
00:21:49.24\00:21:53.31
Now I want to say that Jennifer,
that is the coolest thing
00:21:53.34\00:21:57.41
is that the Holy Spirit has
a way of saying let's partner
00:21:57.45\00:22:01.48
up right now
during this recovery time.
00:22:01.52\00:22:03.70
So how did God partner
up? How did you confront your
00:22:03.73\00:22:07.64
lies with God, with your
journey back spiritually.
00:22:07.68\00:22:11.55
Because spiritually
everything gets trashed
00:22:11.59\00:22:13.96
when we get trashed.
00:22:14.00\00:22:15.53
I had to just admit I was
wrong, I had to admit I was
00:22:15.57\00:22:19.59
fanatical which is
really hard to do - ouch.
00:22:19.63\00:22:22.58
I had a go back and talk to
the people who I had lied to
00:22:22.61\00:22:26.73
and said that I was fine when
they knew I wasn't and I had
00:22:26.76\00:22:30.84
to say I was wrong
and I had to tell people
00:22:30.87\00:22:33.14
I misrepresented
Christianity to them.
00:22:33.17\00:22:36.42
I had a couple of friends,
my boyfriend and a real close
00:22:36.46\00:22:39.11
girlfriend from high school
came and visited me when I was
00:22:39.14\00:22:41.50
in the middle of the anorexia
and they were looking at me
00:22:41.53\00:22:44.36
like what happened to
you? I was this jolly person in
00:22:44.39\00:22:47.66
high school and here I am
all skinny and real nervous.
00:22:47.69\00:22:50.92
I know it was a bad witness.
00:22:50.96\00:22:53.35
And your saying this is what
God requires of me and I'm so
00:22:53.38\00:22:56.54
spiritual and they're like
I don't want to be like that.
00:22:56.58\00:23:00.07
So I go and retrace my steps
and tell people that was about
00:23:00.11\00:23:03.57
me and it wasn't about God.
00:23:03.60\00:23:05.09
- He didn't require this of
me. - no He didn't require it.
00:23:05.13\00:23:08.07
In fact it broke His
heart. - yeah exactly.
00:23:08.10\00:23:10.99
I had to go to my mom and
say, it was hard to do but
00:23:11.02\00:23:13.58
I had to admit
that she was right.
00:23:13.61\00:23:16.75
What did you say to her,
because there are a lot of
00:23:16.78\00:23:19.54
parents dealing with
this with their children?
00:23:19.57\00:23:22.20
I just said you were right,
I'm sorry for what I put you
00:23:22.23\00:23:26.15
through, basically you did
that out of love and I finally
00:23:26.19\00:23:29.51
recognized that this is
more about me than it is about
00:23:29.54\00:23:32.82
God and I'm sorry I
misrepresented my religion.
00:23:32.86\00:23:36.27
Then I started acting different-
ly, I was so uptight when
00:23:36.31\00:23:41.32
I first became a Christian
around my family because they
00:23:41.35\00:23:46.33
weren't where I was at
and I couldn't do anything.
00:23:46.37\00:23:48.29
Now when I see my family I
go as far as I can go without
00:23:48.33\00:23:52.44
actually bringing guilt
upon myself, I'll just do
00:23:52.48\00:23:55.18
whatever they're doing
within reason. - exactly.
00:23:55.22\00:23:57.85
Because no matter what,
yours was food, but whether it's
00:23:57.89\00:24:02.22
a critical spirit, whether
it's judgment, whether it's
00:24:02.25\00:24:06.14
anger, whether it is drugs,
you know it could be anything.
00:24:06.18\00:24:10.03
You can have all
these addictions that
00:24:10.07\00:24:11.79
we could hook on to.
00:24:11.82\00:24:13.48
Regardless of what it is we
have to have that journey back.
00:24:13.51\00:24:16.45
We really do want to make
amends to the people we love
00:24:16.48\00:24:21.82
as much as we can. Get
some of those ends tied up.
00:24:21.86\00:24:26.07
Yeah, and like with my
mom, all parents have a certain
00:24:26.10\00:24:29.22
amount of guilt, I know
that now because I am a parent.
00:24:29.26\00:24:32.21
When your kids start
having trouble you start blaming
00:24:32.25\00:24:35.17
yourself and so my mom
was really broken by that
00:24:35.20\00:24:37.82
whole thing and it
was really hard for her.
00:24:37.86\00:24:40.20
So I had to minister
to that brokenness in her
00:24:40.23\00:24:42.54
and realize that
she went through a lot.
00:24:42.58\00:24:45.06
It wasn't all about me,
it was about her too, her
00:24:45.10\00:24:47.34
heart was broken when
I was dealing with that.
00:24:47.37\00:24:49.55
Me being healthy was the
nicest thing I can do for her.
00:24:49.58\00:24:53.09
Just laughing out loud
and be more like my old self.
00:24:53.13\00:24:56.62
I love that because what
you are saying that it isn't
00:24:56.65\00:24:59.97
really as simple as things
got as you took it into your
00:25:00.01\00:25:03.29
addiction coming
out keep it simple.
00:25:03.33\00:25:06.60
There is a thing of the
12 step program that says,
00:25:06.64\00:25:09.74
keep it simple
stupid. I love that.
00:25:09.77\00:25:13.52
Some people would get
really offended by that,
00:25:13.56\00:25:15.79
but we really do try
to make it complicated.
00:25:15.83\00:25:17.99
When I can sit laugh out
loud, when I can sit and enjoy
00:25:18.02\00:25:21.59
reconnecting with the people
around me, without trying to
00:25:21.62\00:25:25.11
prove I'm this or that, I'm good
enough or I'm not good enough,
00:25:25.15\00:25:28.73
or whatever when I can let
all that go and let the Holy
00:25:28.76\00:25:32.33
Spirit just allow me to be
in relationship, to be okay
00:25:32.37\00:25:35.90
in my own skin, that
is the gift you give back
00:25:35.93\00:25:38.69
to the ones you love.
00:25:38.73\00:25:40.05
That's great, and now I notice
when I'm around people who
00:25:40.08\00:25:42.85
have the same problem, I
get really angry and I have to
00:25:42.88\00:25:45.61
take that to the Lord.
Do you know what I mean?
00:25:45.65\00:25:47.30
- so explain what you mean.
00:25:47.34\00:25:48.88
Well when I am around people
that is where I was at when
00:25:48.91\00:25:51.31
I was first going through this
00:25:51.34\00:25:53.49
- in denial, justify everything.
00:25:53.52\00:25:55.60
- trying the spiritual
life - you're just jealous
00:25:55.64\00:25:57.50
because I'm skinny. -
exactly, and when they are not
00:25:57.54\00:26:00.33
eating and I know they have
a problem, I'm very inclined
00:26:00.36\00:26:03.66
to be hard on them and point
it out and come down on them
00:26:03.69\00:26:06.93
because I was there and so I
have to take that to the Lord
00:26:06.96\00:26:10.16
and be as gentle with
them as my husband was with me.
00:26:10.19\00:26:13.55
So that is always challenging.
00:26:13.58\00:26:15.55
You know I can so relate
to that, when I work with an
00:26:15.58\00:26:18.41
addict that just relapsed
again I want to grab them by
00:26:18.45\00:26:21.52
the throat and God has to
stop in and say I never grabbed
00:26:21.55\00:26:24.59
you by the throat.
00:26:24.62\00:26:25.79
I never did it's not who I am.
00:26:25.83\00:26:28.01
So it is that
same kind of thing.
00:26:28.04\00:26:30.16
I want to just say I
loved having you on the program,
00:26:30.19\00:26:33.54
I just loved having you on
the program and I think your
00:26:33.57\00:26:37.01
journey is incredible and
I know that we hit just one
00:26:37.04\00:26:39.95
area of your journey and
there is a lot of different
00:26:39.99\00:26:42.61
areas we could have
really focused on but thanks for
00:26:42.64\00:26:45.31
sharing this one and I
would like you to stay with me
00:26:45.34\00:26:47.97
and actually come
back for the close.
00:26:48.01\00:26:50.75
In the close there's a couple
of things I want you to do.
00:26:50.79\00:26:54.42
I know people watching, there
are people watching that had
00:26:54.45\00:26:58.05
these disorders
that are locked in that.
00:26:58.08\00:27:00.69
They are starting to
break denial but don't know
00:27:00.72\00:27:03.46
what to do and I want
you to come back and talk
00:27:03.49\00:27:06.19
to them, is that
okay? Sure absolutely!
00:27:06.23\00:27:08.52
Okay we are going to take a
break and I have to say I am
00:27:08.55\00:27:11.96
proud of God, I just want
to kiss Him on the face for how
00:27:12.00\00:27:15.37
He leads us in our journey.
00:27:15.41\00:27:16.92
Like how gentle He is
with us in our crazy thinking.
00:27:16.95\00:27:20.51
We think that I'm just doing
the right thing and what works
00:27:20.55\00:27:24.46
and we are starving to
death, either emotionally,
00:27:24.50\00:27:26.35
spiritually, physically,
we are close to death and God
00:27:26.39\00:27:29.13
says I'm still
going to hang on to you.
00:27:29.17\00:27:31.95
I love you and I
think that it's amazing.
00:27:31.98\00:27:34.69
We are going to come back,
stay with us and think about
00:27:34.73\00:27:39.33
if you need anything
from God just take it to Him,
00:27:39.37\00:27:42.65
just take it to Him.
00:27:42.69\00:27:44.23