Welcome back, we're going
to continue our discussion
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on rebellion so if anybody
out there is feeling that we
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might be talking about you,
we might be talking about you.
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I'm going to ask you because
I look at you Marcia, I want
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to say first of all thank
you for being on the program.
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Oh you are welcome,
it's good to be here Cheri.
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When I first talked to
you, we were doing a whole other
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thing, we were talking
about me coming into Colorado
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Springs to do an event
and I was talking to you about
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that and I had heard a little
bit about your journey and
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I said you have to
come on the program.
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Today we are talking about
rebellion and I'm looking at
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you and thinking you couldn't
possibly know anything about
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rebellion, look at you.
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Oh no, I know a lot
about that subject, yes I do.
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Isn't it funny?
So talk about that.
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Well you know I was
born in Jamaica West Indies.
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I had the wonderful
privilege of coming here to the
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United States when I was
12, but I was always a very
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well studied
student in Sabbath school.
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Loved to study my
Sabbath school lesson and know
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how to present at how
to answer the questions
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when church time came.
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My teachers would always
say you're going to marry
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a preacher someday
and I didn't like that.
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Because I'm thinking how
adorable is that, you're like
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no it was not. - oh no.
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So that is something you
said, I don't want to marry
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a preacher. -. - no I
don't want to marry a preacher
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because I saw that as
being very restrictive.
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I saw that as if my if I
marry a preacher I won't be
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able to do this and I
won't be able to do that and so
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I never wanted
to marry a preacher.
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The more that my teacher
said it the more rebellious
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I became, so I listened
to your introduction and I
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thought wow that was me and
it started when I was young.
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To be very rebellious.
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What is interesting to me
is that the Bible talks about
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fighting against the
schemes of the devil.
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Like the devil sets up
schemes in your life and it
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sounds like for you the
scheme was set really early.
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Let's just put this kind
of aversion here and have
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everybody talk about it.
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Hear everybody say you're some
day. - some day you're going to
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be a preacher's wife and
so I grew up praying actually
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I felt that perhaps it could
be true so I started to pray
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and said Lord please help
me that I will never marry
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a preacher. So when I did
get married, I married when
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I was 21 years old
he was not a preacher.
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My husband had just
returned from the war in Vietnam
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and he proposed and
later we got married.
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He says you know I've
been a medic in the service so
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I think I'm going to
college and do pre-med.
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So he went into the
premed program in college
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and a year later, - I just
have to say for you it must have
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been incredible, you're
going to marry a Doctor and you
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are really bright so
that must have felt perfect.
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A year later he changed
his curriculum and said Honey
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I have something to
tell you. I said what?
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He said I'm
changing to theology.
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And you're like
no don't even do it.
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But I never told him through
the years of courting and
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dating I never told him
that I didn't like preachers or,
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I liked preachers but I
just didn't want to marry one.
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So he never knew that, so
at the time he told me he was
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going to be a theology
major and he wanted to be
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a preacher my heart sunk.
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Did you feel that
rebel waking up? - yes.
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Did you feel that rebel? That
rebellion sense of - I didn't
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even identify it as rebellion,
I really didn't but at the time
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I made decision at that
time that what ever a pastors
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wife was supposed to do,
whatever a theology student's
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wife was expected to do, I
was going to do the opposite.
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But I didn't want to
call it rebellion. - yes.
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I thought this was
normal because God, You have
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disappointed me, You
know that I didn't want to
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marry a Pastor, - yeah.
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I have prayed to You, what
are You doing? Did You fall
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asleep up there? To me I
really love the fact that when
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that rebellion sets in,
it sets in. I will not do it.
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I love what you're saying,
I'm going to do the opposite,
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not only am I going to do it,
I'm going to do the opposite.
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That seed is set and all of
a sudden the devil, I believe
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the devil himself loves that
because he knows I have your
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heart. - it was
a silent rebellion.
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My husband is now deceased
but we were married for 23
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years and for 17 of
those 23 years he was a Pastor.
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I was a very dutiful
pastors wife and I use the word
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dutiful because I did do
the things that were expected
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from his congregants, I did
do the right things as far as
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the church was concerned,
but that silent rebellion
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was always inside of me.
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I love to type I can do
wonderful church bulletins, and
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a lot of things like letter
writing and things like that.
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My husband knew that, but
every time we went to a new
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church I would say to
him, honey please do not ask me
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to type the bulletins for
your church. I will not do it.
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But I always ended up doing
it because he always asked me
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to do it so I was dutiful
and I responded to that, but the
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rebellion was still there.
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So Marcia one of the
things that I want to ask you,
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if you could share with
us, is that I know for someone
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who is locked in rebellion
one of things I noticed as
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we counsel as we work with
people from all walks of life,
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is their joy and their
ability to give and receive love
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starts to diminish. Did you
feel that through the years?
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Did you feel kind of? -
oh no, no I gave love, I gave
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what ever was expected of
me, but sometimes I felt it
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was pretentious because in
my heart I didn't want to be
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in that arena, I didn't
want to do those things.
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I would go to camp meetings
and the older woman or the
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pastors wives would say are
you going to be here for the
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full 10 days? I would
say no I will be working.
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I'm only here for today,
this is the Sabbath and I'm here
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for today. Then I get to go
home and felt satisfied that
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I was being rebellious but
here's something I can choose
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to do, I don't have to be
at camp meeting for 10 days.
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And that rebellion continued
to build, I could see it was
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building, I never had any
psychological help with it
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because it was so
silent, so no one knew
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I was going through that.
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It was even a blind spot
for you - yes, yes definitely.
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So tell me looking back on
it now, what did it look like,
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if you know what I mean
that you know you said it looked
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a little bit in the fact
that I did it because I knew
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I was supposed to do
this, I'm supposed to be loving,
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I'm supposed to be caring,
I'm supposed to slow down
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enough to take
care of you right now.
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Now looking back on
it I sort of regret it,
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that I was rebellious.
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One of the things I didn't
do as a pastors wife, I did
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not go with my husband to visit
the sick, I did not go with him
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to cheer up a family, I would
always say honey you just need
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to ask the deacons to go
with you because I'm not going.
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- it's not my job. -
it's not my job, yeah and the
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regret was that when my
husband was dying, he died a few
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years ago, - he had
leukemia? - he had leukemia yes.
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So he died from that but
the day before he died at the
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hospital where he was I called
the Pastor because we were
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in another town it wasn't
our town because he had gone
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there for his surgery.
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I said to the Pastor my
husband doesn't appear to have
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a lot of time
left would you come?
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The Pastors said you know I'm
in a school board meeting but
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I will wrap it up and get
their just as soon as I can.
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As I was sitting and
waiting for him I was watching
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the elevator and when the
elevator door opened his wife
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came out of the elevator.
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I said what are you doing
here and she said my husband
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called me and stated that
he was needed but he is delayed
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and so I came and she
touched my hand and said
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Marcia it's
going to be all right.
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Then she hugged my mother-in-law
who was waiting in the
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hallway and then she
moved very cautiously into my
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husband's room and she
stood and prayed with him until
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her husband arrived, the Pastor.
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It was that day that I
realized the effectiveness of a
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pastors wife, the efficacy,
what it could have been for
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me, the satisfaction
that I could have brought to
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families, to other
families all those years and
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I didn't and that
truly touched my heart.
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Yes, so that would be
my only regret now because
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I did everything that a
pastors wife seemingly should
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have done, but my
heart it wasn't there fully.
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I love you saying that
because one of the things that
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we are looking at this
season is the fact that
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we are robbed by our stuff
- yes a wonderful experience.
00:10:01.84\00:10:05.89
Exactly and I think all of
heaven just says please trust
00:10:05.92\00:10:09.61
Me on this and surrender
this because the joy you will
00:10:09.65\00:10:13.16
feel standing in your giftings,
because it really is your
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giftings. - yes, I'm
enjoying that now and I took a
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complete turnaround when
God, when I surrender that God.
00:10:21.50\00:10:24.59
So talk about that turnaround.
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Because your
husband didn't survive.
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- Right he didn't survive
but prior to his illness he
00:10:29.65\00:10:33.26
survived for six months
after he was diagnosed God gave
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me a ministry of my own.
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One day He just said, I
think He said to Himself,
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I'm going to have to wake
her up and stop being rebellious
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and I have to do something.
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Okay let me just say
because we can't be fully used
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with our junk. God says I
want to pour all of heaven
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into you, however I
can't because that rebellion
00:10:59.81\00:11:04.46
and you won't let Me.
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I want to know because
this is terrible I want to know
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every detail, I want to
know how He got through because
00:11:09.79\00:11:13.07
rebellion is hard to get
through, we have a heart of
00:11:13.10\00:11:16.64
stone almost and do not
know what but God has to bring
00:11:16.67\00:11:20.18
in, like the Bible
says a heart of flesh.
00:11:20.21\00:11:22.09
I'm going to give you a
heart of flesh - out of stone.
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So how did that look and
don't leave anything out.
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Okay, I may have to
leave one or two things out.
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But what happened to me was
after many, many years living
00:11:32.51\00:11:38.10
that silent rebellious
life I took ill with insomnia.
00:11:38.14\00:11:43.70
I could not sleep
naturally for eight months.
00:11:43.73\00:11:46.83
- 8 months? Eight months
and I thought I would die.
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Because people don't
realize you are sad and crazy
00:11:50.84\00:11:54.74
and tired, I mean
you were robbed totally
00:11:54.78\00:11:59.17
when you can't sleep.
00:11:59.20\00:12:00.20
Well of course, I always
say the three things that are
00:12:00.24\00:12:03.38
most precious to me are my
friendships, my sleep, and my
00:12:03.41\00:12:06.82
ministry, so sleep was a
very important thing in my life.
00:12:06.85\00:12:10.23
For that to be taken away
from me, it was one of the
00:12:10.26\00:12:14.32
hardest things I
had ever been through.
00:12:14.36\00:12:16.51
So I just couldn't sleep, I
worked in a high-tech job for
00:12:16.54\00:12:20.81
the federal government and
I was required to be alert and
00:12:20.85\00:12:25.77
knowledgeable and I was I
never was sleepy day or night.
00:12:25.81\00:12:30.70
I drove 60 miles
to work each day.
00:12:30.74\00:12:33.87
So after about seven months
I went to a Doctor and he put
00:12:33.91\00:12:39.27
me on some sleeping pills
and that was not helpful at all.
00:12:39.30\00:12:44.63
Because you really don't
sleep, you may be out for
00:12:44.66\00:12:47.02
a little while but you
are not really sleeping that
00:12:47.06\00:12:49.39
satisfying rest.
00:12:49.42\00:12:51.34
You go through
stages of sleep. - yes, yes.
00:12:51.38\00:12:53.05
So one day I went to
sleep clinic at the hospital and
00:12:53.08\00:12:58.23
they connected me with
those things that they put all
00:12:58.26\00:13:02.08
in your head and I slept
in the hospital that night.
00:13:02.12\00:13:07.45
The next morning the results
were that you slept fine,
00:13:07.49\00:13:12.78
you slept for five
hours without any drugs and as
00:13:12.82\00:13:18.33
we monitored you,
you were sleeping fine.
00:13:18.37\00:13:20.50
So can I move in?
00:13:20.54\00:13:22.18
So that day they dismissed
me from the hospital and as
00:13:24.74\00:13:28.11
I stood outside the hospital
Cheri I actually felt the
00:13:28.15\00:13:32.67
organs of my body all in an
uproar like they were unhappy.
00:13:32.71\00:13:37.20
I could feel my kidneys,
liver, all the parts just
00:13:37.24\00:13:41.06
rumbling inside and I stood
and looked up to the sky and
00:13:41.09\00:13:45.51
said my God I'm either
going to live or die, but if You
00:13:45.54\00:13:50.13
let me live I will serve
You for the rest of my life.
00:13:50.16\00:13:54.85
And I was delivered and I
started sleeping after that
00:13:54.89\00:13:59.15
prayer I went home and
started sleeping like a baby.
00:13:59.18\00:14:05.00
Is that the sense that
all of a sudden I'm giving or
00:14:05.04\00:14:09.22
surrendering the whole
rebellion and I will do what
00:14:09.25\00:14:13.36
ever You ask me to do. -
what ever You asked me to do.
00:14:13.40\00:14:17.89
I want to say that people
talk about willpower, actually
00:14:17.93\00:14:22.30
it is our will and God's
power and we always say He will
00:14:22.34\00:14:26.68
give us the power.
00:14:26.71\00:14:28.54
He doesn't give us the
power, He is the power and
00:14:28.58\00:14:31.56
you have got to give
your will to Him and He will
00:14:31.59\00:14:34.54
in turn fix it for you.
00:14:34.57\00:14:36.51
And that's such a, you
know that is such a joy in that
00:14:36.55\00:14:40.88
kind of surrender because
I'm not trying to muster up
00:14:40.91\00:14:45.21
it within myself something.
00:14:45.25\00:14:47.03
Am I am saying, God I
recognize Your power and I know
00:14:47.06\00:14:51.54
You can do this.
00:14:51.57\00:14:53.61
So I know this answer, but I
want to hear your take on it.
00:14:53.64\00:14:59.72
What feelings did you feel
when you are able to let that
00:14:59.75\00:15:06.23
rebellion go? - oh what
happened is that God changed
00:15:06.27\00:15:11.53
my entire life and I
became a new woman that day.
00:15:11.57\00:15:16.77
He started by changing the
music I listen to in my car.
00:15:16.80\00:15:20.68
Traveling long distances
back and forth to work I was
00:15:20.71\00:15:24.36
listening to classic, I
love country and western music
00:15:24.40\00:15:27.79
which was not healthy for
me because I love the lyrics.
00:15:27.83\00:15:31.85
Those were not good at all
and after that day, that full
00:15:31.89\00:15:36.19
surrender to God those
types of music were distasteful
00:15:36.23\00:15:40.50
to me and I began
playing hymns in my car.
00:15:40.53\00:15:44.28
Old-time gospel music in my
car, because I was brought up
00:15:44.32\00:15:48.43
on old-time gospel
back in the islands.
00:15:48.46\00:15:51.24
It was a real connection with
God. Isn't it funny that even
00:15:51.27\00:15:54.48
with country music there is
a lot of rebellion in country
00:15:54.51\00:15:57.64
and for a lot of us especially
with a rebellious nature we are
00:15:57.68\00:16:02.91
drawn towards music that,
like I remember my favorite song
00:16:02.94\00:16:08.14
growing up was a song
called my life, it's my life,
00:16:08.17\00:16:10.80
you can do whatever you
want but this is my life and
00:16:10.83\00:16:13.42
I'll do what I want
to do kind of thing.
00:16:13.45\00:16:15.28
So we are drawn to
music that really talks on our
00:16:15.32\00:16:18.94
rebellion and you said that
God pulled you to music that
00:16:18.97\00:16:21.82
talks about your
surrender and His love for you.
00:16:21.85\00:16:24.56
Yes, and I started getting
more serious about reading the
00:16:24.60\00:16:27.77
Bible, reading inspirational
literature, reading my
00:16:27.80\00:16:31.23
devotional thoughts and
God opened up a whole new world
00:16:31.26\00:16:34.65
for me. - what
did you find in there?
00:16:34.69\00:16:36.86
Well I found I was
getting closer to God and I was
00:16:36.89\00:16:40.92
listening to His voice, He
was actually speaking to me.
00:16:40.96\00:16:44.91
Before my husband's illness
and his death He had showed
00:16:44.94\00:16:48.86
it to me in a vision so
I was so close to God that
00:16:48.90\00:16:52.62
He started now telling me
how my life was going to be.
00:16:52.65\00:16:55.96
As He showed me that
vision about my husband's death,
00:16:55.99\00:16:59.17
I did not see death I
thought it was a wonderful thing
00:16:59.21\00:17:02.11
that was going to happen
to our family, but I did not
00:17:02.14\00:17:05.01
know it was his dying.
00:17:05.04\00:17:07.30
But God was so good
to me, He prepared me for
00:17:07.34\00:17:10.11
my husband's death and He
led me through it and then
00:17:10.15\00:17:13.19
He opened up a Ministry for me.
00:17:13.22\00:17:15.17
What is the ministry?
Because you have talked about
00:17:15.21\00:17:16.73
that a couple times.
00:17:16.77\00:17:17.83
Yes, the complete woman/man
seminars is what we have been
00:17:17.86\00:17:21.86
doing now for almost 18 years.
00:17:21.89\00:17:24.21
It is the ministry I love
and we started doing group
00:17:24.24\00:17:27.29
seminars.
00:17:27.33\00:17:28.42
- but what is it? -
oh we call ourselves a
00:17:28.45\00:17:32.07
consulting service and
we talk to people around the
00:17:32.11\00:17:35.86
country and the world if we
could get to the world, but we
00:17:35.90\00:17:40.14
do on our Internet about self
esteem and letting them know
00:17:40.18\00:17:44.39
that there is no self
esteem without Christ esteemed.
00:17:44.42\00:17:48.10
He has to be the most
important person in your life.
00:17:48.13\00:17:51.94
So tell me why, did you
get in the ministry because of
00:17:51.97\00:17:55.75
what you went through
with your own journey?
00:17:55.78\00:17:59.05
Oh no, I did not get into
ministry but it got into me.
00:17:59.09\00:18:03.18
After my full surrender to
God I was on my way to work
00:18:03.22\00:18:07.27
one morning, and
this was three weeks after
00:18:07.31\00:18:10.13
I was fully
healed from the insomnia.
00:18:10.17\00:18:12.30
The Holy Spirit came to me
in my car and said you said
00:18:12.34\00:18:15.65
you would serve God for
the rest of your life here
00:18:15.69\00:18:18.97
is what I want you to do.
00:18:19.00\00:18:20.39
The name of the seminar
the complete woman, that is
00:18:20.43\00:18:24.56
how we started was impressed
in my mind and I grabbed a
00:18:24.60\00:18:28.74
pad of paper I had my car
and a pen and I wrote it down.
00:18:28.77\00:18:32.58
On the way to work, when
I finally got to my place of
00:18:32.61\00:18:36.39
employment I had
the ministry on paper.
00:18:36.42\00:18:39.42
If I say to you what am I
going to gain, what are you
00:18:39.46\00:18:42.50
going to teach me, what is
going to be different about
00:18:42.53\00:18:45.54
me with what you share with me?
00:18:45.57\00:18:47.90
It's a ministry where we go
in and talk with someone who is
00:18:47.93\00:18:53.66
having low self-esteem
problems, who's having
00:18:53.70\00:18:56.83
rebellion problems, they
usually come out not the same
00:18:56.87\00:19:02.44
person that they
were before we came in.
00:19:02.47\00:19:05.63
What God showed me was you
cannot use books, you cannot
00:19:05.66\00:19:10.03
use ideas from psychologists.
I need you to go to My word
00:19:10.06\00:19:14.40
and show men and women how
to develop the inner beauty that
00:19:14.44\00:19:18.74
I want them to
exemplify and God took us to
00:19:18.77\00:19:21.82
the Beatitudes,
Matthew Chapter 5.
00:19:21.85\00:19:24.73
From the Beatitudes we
developed an inner beauty
00:19:24.76\00:19:29.13
program to show men and women
how to be different people and
00:19:29.16\00:19:33.66
how to relate to one another,
how to develop tolerance levels,
00:19:33.70\00:19:38.17
how to create good
interpersonal relationships.
00:19:38.20\00:19:40.83
You will have to
come to a seminar
00:19:40.86\00:19:43.23
so can get all the teachings.
00:19:43.27\00:19:45.34
As you talk or think
about that I know that in our
00:19:45.38\00:19:49.90
rebellion, in our whether
is rebellion or low self-
00:19:49.94\00:19:53.98
esteem or whatever it is
that if I am responding to the
00:19:54.01\00:19:58.00
world from all that, I am
never going to fully connect
00:19:58.03\00:20:01.62
with the people around me
and so it sounds like even in
00:20:01.65\00:20:05.20
your own healing is
that as you let that go, is
00:20:05.24\00:20:09.69
I can really developed into
the total woman, a woman God
00:20:09.72\00:20:12.85
has created me to be.
00:20:12.89\00:20:14.44
I have to be able to drop my,
for one my anger, my bitterness,
00:20:14.48\00:20:21.86
my unforgiveness,
my disappointments.
00:20:21.90\00:20:25.01
That is what the Beatitudes
talks about, I am able to read
00:20:25.04\00:20:28.93
that God has allowed me to
be able to go into His word
00:20:28.96\00:20:33.65
and read the King James version
and develop a contemporary
00:20:33.68\00:20:38.33
presentation based on
the teachings from the Bible.
00:20:38.37\00:20:41.98
I've been into secular
environments and done those
00:20:42.02\00:20:45.57
seminars, at the end someone
would say, I know you got that
00:20:45.60\00:20:49.89
from the Bible. You see we
going to places where they don't
00:20:49.92\00:20:53.36
want us to talk about the
Bible, but they do know that we
00:20:53.40\00:20:56.81
are a Christian organization.
- that's cool - yeah.
00:20:56.84\00:20:59.82
It's wonderful what God does.
00:20:59.86\00:21:02.54
So now that you are in ministry
it's almost like you have
00:21:02.58\00:21:07.22
come full circle in that
not only did you marry a Pastor,
00:21:07.25\00:21:12.15
but now you are a teacher
with pastoral gifts more than
00:21:12.19\00:21:15.83
likely. - yeah, because
I've been a hospital chaplain
00:21:15.87\00:21:19.43
for seven years and the
friends who knew me when I was
00:21:19.47\00:21:22.85
married said I thought
you didn't go to hospitals,
00:21:22.88\00:21:26.23
how did you become a chaplain?
00:21:26.27\00:21:27.99
But that is what God has
done, completely turned my life
00:21:28.03\00:21:31.36
around to do those things
I should have done but now
00:21:31.40\00:21:34.28
I am doing them, I didn't
do them when He wanted me to.
00:21:34.32\00:21:37.65
But now that He has
taken my rebellious spirit I am
00:21:37.68\00:21:40.95
able to serve Him and serve
Him in a way that pleases Him.
00:21:40.98\00:21:44.19
I didn't know you were a
chaplain how did that come about
00:21:44.23\00:21:49.17
I was bored in Sabbath school
one morning and I said Lord
00:21:49.20\00:21:53.67
I have been listening to
these wonderful messages from
00:21:53.71\00:21:57.70
Your word and I'm not sharing
it, could You tell me what
00:21:57.73\00:22:01.75
to do, I'm not having a very
successful outreach program.
00:22:01.79\00:22:05.57
The Holy Spirit said get up
get in your car and I started
00:22:05.60\00:22:09.25
driving around the city of
Colorado Springs and I landed
00:22:09.28\00:22:12.90
at the parking lot
at one of the hospitals.
00:22:12.93\00:22:16.94
I just went in and I said
to the charge nurse I'm here to
00:22:16.98\00:22:21.09
visit patients, are
there any patients that have
00:22:21.13\00:22:25.26
no family members, no one
visiting them that I could
00:22:25.29\00:22:29.39
go in and pray with?
00:22:29.42\00:22:31.36
The charge nurse said on
the top three floors allowed me
00:22:31.39\00:22:36.37
to do it and when I
got to the third floor the
00:22:36.41\00:22:39.80
charge nurse said you
cannot visit patients in this
00:22:39.83\00:22:42.89
hospital, this is a
high profile hospital
00:22:42.93\00:22:45.58
and you need an ID.
00:22:45.62\00:22:46.99
So I pulled out my Colorado
Springs drivers license.
00:22:47.02\00:22:51.11
She said no you need an
ID from the hospital that
00:22:51.15\00:22:55.21
you are to see my patients.
00:22:55.24\00:22:57.69
I felt very rejected and
insulted and when I went home
00:22:57.73\00:23:01.13
the Holy Spirit showed me
that it was the best thing she
00:23:01.17\00:23:04.57
could have ever done for
me, it protected me and so that
00:23:04.61\00:23:08.08
Monday morning I went
into the chaplain's office and
00:23:08.12\00:23:11.55
asked how I could be
a volunteer chaplain.
00:23:11.59\00:23:13.95
Through outside training,
through training from the
00:23:13.98\00:23:17.61
hospital I became a
hospital chaplain and that
00:23:17.65\00:23:20.21
is a marvelous story.
00:23:20.25\00:23:22.39
That is incredible, it is
an incredible journey that God
00:23:22.42\00:23:24.29
says I know who you
are, I know who you are since
00:23:24.33\00:23:27.36
you were a little girl, I
saw you in Sabbath school,
00:23:27.39\00:23:30.94
I saw the rebellion kick
in, I saw all that stuff and
00:23:30.97\00:23:34.50
even bringing you to the
point where I love the fact
00:23:34.53\00:23:37.94
that the elevator door
opened and the pastors wife came
00:23:37.98\00:23:41.35
out and you said, I
could have been doing this and
00:23:41.38\00:23:45.15
now you are doing that.
00:23:45.18\00:23:47.41
When you talk about
your role in your ministry,
00:23:47.44\00:23:51.34
especially the ministry
as a chaplain, talk about
00:23:51.38\00:23:55.08
some of the ways God
blesses you in that work?
00:23:55.12\00:23:58.76
I'll tell you I was an
on-call chaplain for a while
00:23:58.79\00:24:03.41
and one Sunday morning I
woke up I was on call from
00:24:03.45\00:24:08.03
7 a.m. Sunday to 4
p.m. that afternoon.
00:24:08.06\00:24:10.99
My phone rang at 7 a.m.
and right then I realized that
00:24:11.03\00:24:15.08
there was something undone
either by the shift before me
00:24:15.12\00:24:18.65
or something they couldn't
do, or something was undone.
00:24:18.68\00:24:22.18
- right because it was so quick.
00:24:22.22\00:24:23.49
Because that was called
at exactly 7 o'clock and
00:24:23.52\00:24:25.42
they said there
was a project for you.
00:24:25.45\00:24:26.88
So when she called me she
said Marcia, though she said
00:24:26.91\00:24:30.45
chaplain Marcia are you
still at home and I said yes.
00:24:30.49\00:24:33.99
She said we need you
right away at the hospital.
00:24:34.03\00:24:36.08
I said I will be
there in 20 minutes.
00:24:36.12\00:24:38.01
On the way to the
hospital I said now Lord I'm not
00:24:38.05\00:24:41.07
equipped for whatever
it is I'm going to see but
00:24:41.11\00:24:44.35
I want You to guide me
and show me what I can do
00:24:44.38\00:24:47.59
to solve this problem.
00:24:47.62\00:24:49.33
So when I went to the
desk I said to the charge nurse
00:24:49.36\00:24:53.15
what is the problem?
00:24:53.19\00:24:54.98
She said that this
gentleman's wife has died and
00:24:55.02\00:24:59.05
he will not release
her body to the mortuary.
00:24:59.09\00:25:03.05
He was sitting there by his
deceased wife just looking at
00:25:03.09\00:25:07.02
her and she said chaplain
I don't know what you can do.
00:25:07.05\00:25:11.59
I didn't know either but I
went into the room and made
00:25:11.63\00:25:16.14
my introduction I
said to the widower,
00:25:16.17\00:25:19.35
what is
happening with you today?
00:25:19.39\00:25:21.16
He said chaplain my
brother died two weeks ago and
00:25:21.19\00:25:26.66
everyone has
told me he is in hell.
00:25:26.70\00:25:30.48
I said how did he die? He
said he died from an overdose.
00:25:30.52\00:25:35.31
He was OD and committed suicide
and he said I will not let
00:25:35.35\00:25:40.10
my wife go until
someone tells me that
00:25:40.14\00:25:44.27
she's not going to hell.
00:25:44.31\00:25:46.46
And sooner than right now,
faster than immediately the
00:25:46.49\00:25:51.84
Holy Spirit said tell him
that I do not judge the act
00:25:51.88\00:25:56.58
I judge the motive and he
will never know whether his
00:25:56.61\00:26:01.27
brother is in heaven
or hell unless he plans
00:26:01.31\00:26:05.25
to go to heaven.
00:26:05.28\00:26:07.23
And as the Spirit gave me
those words I relayed them to
00:26:07.27\00:26:10.74
him and he then took the
sheet and he pulled it over
00:26:10.78\00:26:14.21
his wife's face.
00:26:14.25\00:26:16.21
That's just one example.
- that he was comforted by
00:26:16.25\00:26:20.92
the truth. - yes and
he said to me chaplain
00:26:20.96\00:26:24.50
why couldn't anyone
have told me that before?
00:26:24.54\00:26:28.02
So I know that God is pleased
with my work, I know that
00:26:28.05\00:26:31.27
when you surrender and
give it all to Him He will
00:26:31.30\00:26:34.76
change your life around.
00:26:34.79\00:26:36.89
We're going to open up the
discussion to include those in
00:26:38.78\00:26:43.15
the café because I know
that you have a friend that has
00:26:43.19\00:26:47.52
known you for a
long time, Greta.
00:26:47.55\00:26:49.19
I know that you guys have
known each other for a long
00:26:49.22\00:26:52.54
time and that you met
while she was doing ministry and
00:26:52.58\00:26:55.67
I would like first of all
for you to tell us a little
00:26:55.71\00:26:58.96
about yourself and then
how did you guys meet and what
00:26:59.00\00:27:02.22
was that relationship about?
00:27:02.26\00:27:03.86
Hi Cheri my name is Greta
Hamilton and I have known Marcia
00:27:03.89\00:27:07.92
for 11 years, we have known
each other for quite a long
00:27:07.96\00:27:12.48
time. I retired from the
military 20 years ago and that
00:27:12.51\00:27:17.59
is where I met Marcia in a
less part of my retirement,
00:27:17.62\00:27:22.66
getting close to my retirement.
00:27:22.69\00:27:24.09
It's funny because you say
you retired from the military,
00:27:24.13\00:27:26.87
I would guess you
were a model not military.
00:27:26.91\00:27:29.17
That is funny. - no I was
in the military for 20 years.
00:27:29.21\00:27:33.03
It was the last part of my
career that I met Marcia, and I
00:27:33.07\00:27:36.30
think that was probably
one of the lowest points
00:27:36.34\00:27:38.88
professionally and personally
in my life and the way we met
00:27:38.92\00:27:42.67
I believe God orchestrates
everything because I have been
00:27:42.70\00:27:46.42
running from God for so long.
00:27:46.45\00:27:48.22
I had really been in rebellion
from Him because He really
00:27:48.25\00:27:51.01
wanted to bring me in
and I had been raised as a
00:27:51.04\00:27:54.33
Christian all my life but
like my mother said, I was
00:27:54.36\00:27:57.77
straddling the fence and
she said you have to decide if
00:27:57.81\00:28:01.18
you're going to
serve man or God.
00:28:01.21\00:28:03.19
The Lord broke me and He
orchestrated my surrender to the
00:28:03.23\00:28:08.05
point - can I say that when
you talk about in rebellion,
00:28:08.09\00:28:11.60
what did your rebellion
look like because we have talked
00:28:11.64\00:28:15.12
about rebellion
this whole program?
00:28:15.15\00:28:16.83
My rebellion in specifics
really is not fully serving God.
00:28:16.87\00:28:22.37
Not being in a unhealthy
relationships that I knew God
00:28:22.41\00:28:27.27
didn't want me to be in,
that weren't uplifting Him and
00:28:27.31\00:28:32.14
definitely was dragging me down.
00:28:32.18\00:28:34.02
So what the Lord did
was He caused a separation.
00:28:34.06\00:28:38.32
He denied me a promotion
which I thought was probably
00:28:38.35\00:28:41.64
the most devastating thing
in my life, but it turned out
00:28:41.67\00:28:44.93
to be probably the
most positive thing.
00:28:44.96\00:28:47.57
Because even those negative
things He allows to bring
00:28:47.60\00:28:51.39
you closer - to wake you
up - oh He woke me up, I was
00:28:51.43\00:28:55.19
devastated, I was so devastated.
00:28:55.22\00:28:56.94
A friend was going to a retreat
and I remember her telling
00:28:56.97\00:29:02.61
me in order to get over
this you have to seek God.
00:29:02.64\00:29:06.23
You have to keep seeking Him.
00:29:06.27\00:29:07.41
So I beg to go with her
to this retreat and we went.
00:29:07.44\00:29:11.14
I happened to notice that
Marcia was there, I didn't
00:29:11.18\00:29:14.85
realize she was the speaker.
00:29:14.88\00:29:15.85
I'm a very shy person and
I saw her sitting there and
00:29:15.86\00:29:22.79
something said go talk
to her, go talk to her.
00:29:22.83\00:29:26.07
My first hesitancy was
that I didn't want to go talk to
00:29:26.11\00:29:29.85
her, but she was sitting
there so inviting and I went.
00:29:29.88\00:29:33.15
I sat and I talked with
her, I was talking to her about
00:29:33.18\00:29:36.55
myself and about how God
was dealing with me and how
00:29:36.58\00:29:39.91
I was feeling like I know
He wants me to do something
00:29:39.95\00:29:43.24
but I don't want to do it.
00:29:43.28\00:29:45.68
I fought God, I fought
God is to be in into any kind
00:29:45.71\00:29:49.28
of ministry but she listened
more so than anything else.
00:29:49.32\00:29:52.85
It's self, you
have got to move self.
00:29:52.89\00:29:56.27
As I listened to that and
those around her because I was
00:29:56.30\00:30:00.39
not a Seventh-day Adventist
when I met her, and she never
00:30:00.42\00:30:03.67
came out and said I was a
Seventh-day Adventist but the
00:30:03.70\00:30:07.08
way she lived her life,
when she talked about that she
00:30:07.12\00:30:09.94
was in rebellion I would
have never have seen that.
00:30:09.97\00:30:12.73
I would never have saw it
because she was a godly woman.
00:30:12.76\00:30:16.32
She never pushed anything
at me, but I watched the way
00:30:16.35\00:30:19.80
she lived her life and I started
going with her to church.
00:30:19.84\00:30:23.25
It was such a silent
evangelism that she had that it
00:30:23.28\00:30:29.05
drew me to the faith.
00:30:29.08\00:30:31.04
I love that whole thing
and I love the fact that what
00:30:31.08\00:30:35.14
you're saying is that you
didn't see the rebellion in
00:30:35.17\00:30:39.37
her at all so God had
brought you to a point to where
00:30:39.41\00:30:42.90
people around you, they
are saying rebellion are you
00:30:42.94\00:30:46.39
kidding me, she
is a godly woman.
00:30:46.43\00:30:48.05
But there is something
else that Greta said that
00:30:48.09\00:30:50.57
I would like you to
address if you could Marcia.
00:30:50.61\00:30:53.67
That's where she talked
about the self, that little
00:30:53.70\00:30:56.74
self that pops up and
really wants our way, and wants
00:30:56.78\00:30:59.66
what we want, and we want
it now and all that stuff.
00:30:59.69\00:31:02.83
Part of giving up the
rebellion is to deal with self.
00:31:02.86\00:31:07.00
What it is, is that we
think what life is about us.
00:31:07.03\00:31:10.66
It is not all about us. -
excuse me can I write that
00:31:10.70\00:31:16.33
down? Life is the journey,
the path that God has put
00:31:16.36\00:31:20.44
you on for this journey
that He wants you to fulfill.
00:31:20.47\00:31:24.51
He is the major
part of that journey.
00:31:24.55\00:31:29.17
He wants you to do what
He would like for you to do.
00:31:29.21\00:31:33.40
He knows what your desires
are, because what is really
00:31:33.43\00:31:37.15
interesting to me is what
I found out is that there is
00:31:37.19\00:31:40.98
a place in Matthew, the
message Bible says in Matthew 7
00:31:41.02\00:31:44.05
that when you fully see
God you fully see yourself.
00:31:44.08\00:31:48.06
That behind our full
vision of God is actually who
00:31:48.09\00:31:51.54
He knows we are and all
the giftings that we have.
00:31:51.58\00:31:54.96
I think that we run thinking
we know what we are running
00:31:54.99\00:31:57.86
to and God says oh Hon,
you're running the wrong way.
00:31:57.89\00:32:01.24
Yes, and we really don't
see clearly what God has for us
00:32:01.28\00:32:05.41
but the Scripture says in
Matthew 6:33, "seek ye first
00:32:05.45\00:32:09.33
"the kingdom of God and
His righteousness and all these
00:32:09.37\00:32:13.22
"things shall
be added unto you."
00:32:13.25\00:32:15.41
The question comes what things?
00:32:15.45\00:32:17.54
You will never know what
things until you seek Him first.
00:32:17.57\00:32:20.75
That's amazing - that is
what I encourage men and women
00:32:20.78\00:32:23.92
to do. - that is amazing.
00:32:23.95\00:32:26.02
I want to say thank you so
much for being on the program.
00:32:26.06\00:32:29.51
I had a blast and I love
watching how God works with
00:32:29.54\00:32:33.60
people and I love how He works
with you in your rebellion.
00:32:33.63\00:32:36.43
Yes it was a pleasure and
I'm glad I was able to come.
00:32:36.46\00:32:39.23
Thank you for everything.
00:32:39.26\00:32:41.56
Okay I hope to see you
again, we are going to go ahead
00:32:41.59\00:32:44.24
and take a break and come
back for the close so do not
00:32:44.27\00:32:46.99
go anywhere, stay with
this we will be right back!
00:32:47.03\00:32:49.71