Welcome back! Now I am
going to introduce Jason,
00:00:14.17\00:00:18.03
but I want to know did you
guys meet during that time?
00:00:18.06\00:00:21.21
When you get kicked out, you
trying to do the whole AA thing
00:00:21.24\00:00:25.35
your trying to do
recovery, did you meet then?
00:00:25.38\00:00:28.20
I would straight
into sober living home.
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- what is that? Sober
living home is for people who
00:00:30.39\00:00:35.51
need a safe
environment to stay sober.
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You have rules, you have
chores - that's the first thing
00:00:37.85\00:00:40.81
I was going to say,
is how did you do that?
00:00:40.84\00:00:42.33
Because you have rules, you
have chores, you have to get up
00:00:42.36\00:00:45.19
at a certain time.
- it's called minimum.
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I did the minimum of
everything I had to do.
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Then I met him in AA meeting.
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- so you were in
recovery then when you met her?
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Um Hum! - So talk about, a
little bit who you are so we
00:00:57.39\00:01:00.32
can figure out who
you are as a couple now.
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Because I love the fact,
we all have our stuff and we
00:01:02.87\00:01:06.54
come into a
relationship and think okay,
00:01:06.57\00:01:08.08
it should work out, right?
00:01:08.11\00:01:10.16
Yeah,
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nobody told me that
you've got baggage to bring with
00:01:14.61\00:01:17.23
you too, so I started
about the same age as her.
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11 or 12, I had alcoholic
behavior before I was an
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alcoholic, my family was fine.
00:01:29.38\00:01:33.72
My mom had a couple
marriages, my step dad during my
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teenage years tried to
teach me how to be a man.
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I was rebelling, I rebelled
against his authority and
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I didn't want to have
nothing to do with that, I would
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rather go to my
thing, and I did that.
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A lot of drinking, more
drugs and drinking at first.
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- where was your biological dad?
00:01:55.75\00:01:58.52
He left my mom when she was
six months pregnant with me.
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The only picture I had of
him with his high school year
00:02:02.17\00:02:05.69
book, his swim team picture.
00:02:05.72\00:02:08.20
- to this day? Finally at
age 30, I was a couple years
00:02:08.23\00:02:12.36
sober four years
sober, somewhere in there.
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My mom gave me an e-mail
address and I e-mailed him a
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couple times, he told
me he was too young to have
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grandkids, I told him he had
grandkids, he cut it right there
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- he was like I don't
want to see you or meet them?
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He really had no interest
and I try to spark it up a
00:02:28.18\00:02:31.63
couple years ago, and
I was already over it,
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like okay whatever man.
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So when you were a
teen you had stepfathers?
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My step dad, there with
him I had worked for him and he
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had his own business, I
would steal from him to get
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loaded and stuff.
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I was doing meth when it
was still speed during the 80s.
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I could see two meth
addicts watching, it was what?
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I didn't know that.
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We look different I
guess but I don't know what,
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I'm not that old
but that is how it was.
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I didn't graduate high school,
I finished but was 15 and
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credits short, I was shaken
everyone's hand as they went
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into the Stadium to graduate
and I'll see you at the party.
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It was my party I was
by myself in the backyard,
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or hidden in my car
somewhere in a parking lot.
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That is just how it was.
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A lot of hallucinogenics, -
so you jumped out of reality
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into I just want
to be out of reality?
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Oh a lot, a lot
and I don't know,
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art was my
thing, it was what I did
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I drew, I would get
high and I would draw.
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I had some co-dependent
teachers that would let me
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hide out in the corner of
their class during the day so
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I would stay out of
trouble, but for the most part
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I didn't really care about
anything that was going on.
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So when I first heard about
you, I heard you had a tattoo
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shop, did you start
that right after high school?
00:04:01.63\00:04:03.70
No, I didn't get into
tattooing until about 6 and 1/2,
00:04:03.73\00:04:11.13
7 years ago, it
was one of those,
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I always wanted to things
you know, but as I got older
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I became a barroom dreamer.
00:04:18.18\00:04:20.16
You know you sit on the
barstools and I was going to do
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everything, - I love it,
when you talk about that,
00:04:22.43\00:04:26.16
somebody smoking weed, sitting
on the couch or in the bar
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and you are just thinking,
I'm going to, let's invent this.
00:04:29.12\00:04:31.98
I'm going to do this and
have this kind of business.
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I was going to play baseball,
and I was going to soup up
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cars, I was going to be a
tattoo artist, and I was going
00:04:41.67\00:04:44.50
to do all these things you know.
00:04:44.53\00:04:45.77
Some days I was going
to be an Air Force pilot.
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- it depended on
what the drug was.
00:04:48.00\00:04:51.24
What ever I needed to be
that day, I could be that.
00:04:51.27\00:04:53.42
At about 19 or 20 the
drugs stopped working.
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What's interesting about
that dreamer, it does beat down
00:04:59.97\00:05:04.63
the depression and the
reality of what is happening
00:05:04.66\00:05:07.13
around you, the fact that
you are in a bar again and have
00:05:07.16\00:05:09.54
been here every day
for the last three months,
00:05:09.57\00:05:11.96
it's like it beats down
that depression or reality.
00:05:11.99\00:05:16.56
The best idea I got was to
finally get a job in a bar.
00:05:16.59\00:05:20.08
If I'm going to be there, I
might as well get paid to be
00:05:20.11\00:05:23.28
there and the problem
was my alcoholism took me to
00:05:23.31\00:05:27.11
a point where instead
of me kicking people out,
00:05:27.14\00:05:29.58
I'm getting kicked out.
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The dollar night and people
are buying me drinks so now
00:05:31.12\00:05:34.26
the bouncer is totally
sloshed, so away you have to go.
00:05:34.29\00:05:38.04
The guys I work with
are you have to go home.
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It wasn't pleasant, I
don't really have any woo hoo
00:05:40.80\00:05:47.96
moments to talk about
when I was drinking and stuff.
00:05:47.99\00:05:51.10
I have a couple good
kids out of that whole deal.
00:05:51.13\00:05:55.79
I was married in my early 20s.
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There is a couple, you
know I have moments where there
00:06:00.30\00:06:08.75
was a moment of
clarity in my drinking and when
00:06:08.79\00:06:14.91
I met my first wife.
00:06:14.94\00:06:18.96
She had a four-month-old
and we had the party house
00:06:18.99\00:06:24.25
and everybody came to our
house and everybody drank at
00:06:24.28\00:06:26.26
our house and she would
come over with this kid.
00:06:26.29\00:06:28.43
It was like there is a
kid in the house, this is our
00:06:28.46\00:06:32.11
house and something in
the back my head was like
00:06:32.14\00:06:35.63
you can't drink tonight.
00:06:35.66\00:06:37.03
- You have to make sure
that this kid is alright.
00:06:37.06\00:06:39.40
Right, so she ends up
drinking and passed out,
00:06:39.43\00:06:41.14
everybody in the house
is passed out and I'm with
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a little four-month-old
kid and I have no idea how
00:06:42.79\00:06:46.29
to take care of it.
00:06:46.32\00:06:48.10
I'm trying to mix formula
and change diapers all night.
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It's funny because I can
even see that, it's adorable.
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What is incredible is
that your heart is coming
00:06:56.64\00:07:00.83
out for this kid,
saying someone has to make
00:07:00.86\00:07:02.67
sure this kid is safe.
00:07:02.70\00:07:04.48
I mean you are a
protector at heart.
00:07:04.51\00:07:07.44
I, yeah - unlike my
father. - thanks honey.
00:07:07.47\00:07:14.42
What I think were a lot of
folks is that we tend to judge
00:07:14.45\00:07:18.94
addicts not realizing
that every addict has a story,
00:07:18.97\00:07:23.64
every addict has a heart,
and every addict has those
00:07:23.67\00:07:26.91
gifting that would have
been developed had somebody had
00:07:26.94\00:07:30.57
been normal
around them growing up.
00:07:30.60\00:07:31.86
They pop through even at
the drug houses when you said
00:07:31.89\00:07:35.89
you had a drug house.
00:07:35.92\00:07:37.50
I have lived in those houses
and you always had different
00:07:37.53\00:07:39.97
people and their
gifting this would show through,
00:07:40.00\00:07:41.98
even through all the
craziness, all the addicts,
00:07:42.01\00:07:43.96
they could be slamming
drugs and cutting on themselves
00:07:43.99\00:07:46.72
and yet their
hearts shows through.
00:07:46.75\00:07:48.49
There has been more times
like that, there has been those
00:07:50.15\00:07:53.03
intervals where I would
clean up, even as a teenager.
00:07:53.06\00:07:55.95
I would get involved in church
and whatever and do things
00:07:55.98\00:07:59.44
there and when that was gone
I was just back to what I know.
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That's how it's
been my whole life.
00:08:04.67\00:08:07.60
- so this person had passed
out and you were holding on
00:08:09.82\00:08:12.00
the baby at what point did
you say I think I should marry
00:08:12.03\00:08:15.42
her? I love that to, it's
like we, what were we thinking?
00:08:15.45\00:08:20.45
And sad part is I don't even
know if I loved her enough to
00:08:20.48\00:08:25.31
marry her, but I loved the
baby, I fell in love with that
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little girl and she is 16 now.
00:08:28.09\00:08:29.89
Is a phenomenal student
and on occasion I get e-mails
00:08:29.92\00:08:33.26
and that is cool.
00:08:33.29\00:08:35.40
We ended up getting
married in Vegas and she went
00:08:35.43\00:08:40.49
upstairs to smoke some
heroin, I went downstairs
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to drink and
Gamble and that was that.
00:08:43.68\00:08:46.46
She is pregnant with our
son and she ends up leaving
00:08:46.49\00:08:53.63
after a month, we got home
and in a month it was over.
00:08:53.66\00:08:56.25
Basically we were still
married but we weren't together.
00:08:56.28\00:08:59.75
- and your son stayed with you?
00:08:59.78\00:09:01.08
No she was still pregnant
with him and running the
00:09:01.11\00:09:07.26
streets doing her thing,
I'm drinking more and homeless.
00:09:07.29\00:09:11.08
Because my mom, I love my
mother, she decided what I was
00:09:11.11\00:09:16.42
doing was destroying
her as well and she said you
00:09:16.45\00:09:19.14
have two weeks in
the house and I'm moving.
00:09:19.17\00:09:20.94
So she packed all her stuff
and left me some food and left.
00:09:20.97\00:09:23.99
She went off to live her
life without dying in my tornado
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basically. - when you
say that, I'm glad you
00:09:28.09\00:09:33.27
said that because you are
giving mothers and fathers
00:09:33.30\00:09:35.97
permission to say that
sometimes you have to do that.
00:09:36.00\00:09:38.04
As much as that is hurting
your child, is literally going
00:09:38.07\00:09:44.51
to stand them
up in the long run.
00:09:44.54\00:09:46.19
It did, she would
continue to let me come back,
00:09:46.22\00:09:50.76
and never let me hit
bottom, the term they used was
00:09:50.79\00:09:55.41
she was loving me to death.
00:09:55.44\00:09:57.07
She would be like I
have to go, I'm leaving you.
00:09:57.10\00:10:00.19
So was like nobody's there.
00:10:00.22\00:10:02.82
I moved into an industrial
complex that turned into
00:10:02.85\00:10:06.57
a rehearsal studio,
so I thought I was cool.
00:10:06.60\00:10:08.82
I'm definitely cool now
because I was working with
00:10:08.85\00:10:11.75
a local band in California
and they paid me $35 a night
00:10:11.78\00:10:16.76
and half the drink tickets,
because when I was drunk
00:10:16.79\00:10:19.36
I could lift heavy stuff
and that was basically my job,
00:10:19.39\00:10:22.66
moving the equipment
and protect the girlfriends.
00:10:22.69\00:10:24.96
A time or two I come out of
a blackouts with a mic stand
00:10:24.99\00:10:28.07
in my hand chasing
somebody down the alley.
00:10:28.10\00:10:30.82
They just laughed and thought
it was great, you're doing
00:10:30.85\00:10:33.19
a great job, the way to go.
00:10:33.22\00:10:34.78
Here have a beer.
00:10:34.81\00:10:36.44
Picked up a DUI and 97, it
was no big deal really because
00:10:37.81\00:10:41.42
my drinking, when I'm supposed
to blow. 08 the legal limit,
00:10:41.45\00:10:46.63
that's normal, I'm waking
up and putting that stuff in my
00:10:46.66\00:10:52.05
body to be normal, not to
get drunk, not to have fun
00:10:52.08\00:10:59.16
anymore, I'm drinking at
this point, after 13 years,
00:10:59.19\00:11:01.88
I'm drinking for normal,
I just want to be normal.
00:11:01.91\00:11:06.01
My father would drink just
so he wouldn't tremor so much
00:11:06.04\00:11:07.77
while he brushed his
teeth, He couldn't hold a glass
00:11:07.80\00:11:10.87
of liquid because he
would shake it right out.
00:11:10.90\00:11:13.15
I understand that is
when this is not fun anymore.
00:11:13.18\00:11:17.37
And it wasn't, I had
small moments with Ha, Ha, Ha,
00:11:17.40\00:11:21.43
but for the most
part it wasn't fun.
00:11:21.46\00:11:26.23
My drinking it
ruined a lot of things,
00:11:26.26\00:11:30.51
it wrecked my
life. - it robbed you.
00:11:30.54\00:11:34.16
It really did and I got
that DUI and am locked up in the
00:11:34.19\00:11:37.65
jailhouse in orange
county and they let me out.
00:11:37.68\00:11:40.75
I put my car over a fire
hydrant and I was trying to get
00:11:40.78\00:11:45.66
off a fire hydrant with the
guys in my car and the water
00:11:45.69\00:11:48.45
is coming up, so I'm
soaked from toe to chest.
00:11:48.48\00:11:51.21
They got me in the car
and take me over to the house,
00:11:51.24\00:11:55.05
they didn't have any jumpsuits
so I spent the night in
00:11:55.08\00:11:58.06
wet clothes and that was fine
until they let me out in six in
00:11:58.09\00:12:00.33
the morning and I have to
walk 2 and 1/2 miles back to
00:12:00.36\00:12:03.94
my studio, my kingdom.
00:12:03.97\00:12:07.63
Of course I have to call
mommy, I've got a DUI and as
00:12:07.66\00:12:11.53
I'm talking to her at 6:30
in the morning I'm cracking
00:12:11.56\00:12:14.05
a beer, and then
I'm opening another one.
00:12:14.08\00:12:16.48
But that's not the problem,
the road was wet and that's
00:12:16.51\00:12:19.78
what happened, that was
the insanity that was going on
00:12:19.81\00:12:22.77
in my life for
that period of time.
00:12:22.80\00:12:25.00
And for any alcoholic or
anybody that is in the lifestyle
00:12:25.03\00:12:27.89
that are watching, we do
say it was the road, or it is
00:12:27.92\00:12:32.21
this or it is that, or a
had three and I should have
00:12:32.24\00:12:35.59
had two, I mean we just
rationalized the whole thing.
00:12:35.62\00:12:40.04
A lot of times,
it was a lot of that.
00:12:40.07\00:12:43.00
Right after that my son
was born, he was born addicted
00:12:44.74\00:12:48.88
to heroin. - were you
there when he was born?
00:12:48.91\00:12:53.28
Yeah I was half hour
into a pass out after a night
00:12:53.31\00:12:57.32
of drinking, and I had no
license so I had to call my
00:12:57.35\00:13:00.56
neighbor who I was drinking
with and he took me 50 miles
00:13:00.59\00:13:04.82
down the road to the hospital.
00:13:04.85\00:13:07.52
What is hard about seeing
a baby addicted to heroin is
00:13:07.55\00:13:10.92
everything hurts them,
I mean their skin hurts.
00:13:10.95\00:13:14.01
They are already going through
withdrawals and where you
00:13:14.04\00:13:17.32
should see this incredible
baby laying against do you see
00:13:17.35\00:13:20.36
this addict going
through withdrawals.
00:13:20.39\00:13:22.27
It was that night, I
can't really tell you, I don't
00:13:22.30\00:13:25.95
remember much, I just
remember there were a lot of
00:13:25.98\00:13:28.64
problems and my mom
was on her way down.
00:13:28.67\00:13:30.96
It was just rough, it
was rough, I lived a horrid
00:13:30.99\00:13:40.40
lifestyle in my opinion.
00:13:40.43\00:13:42.51
I was separated from
everybody and everything.
00:13:42.54\00:13:44.66
We were in there for a
couple of days and I got to go
00:13:44.69\00:13:48.91
back to Andrews mom, his
grandmother's house and I got
00:13:48.94\00:13:58.13
to spend about an hour
with him and then I left.
00:13:58.16\00:14:00.15
She went her way with him,
I don't remember seeing him
00:14:00.18\00:14:05.05
much for the first couple
months and I got a knock on my
00:14:05.08\00:14:08.26
door and there she was
and she says here's your kid,
00:14:08.29\00:14:11.58
I can't take care of him
anymore because of her disease.
00:14:11.61\00:14:14.08
So one more time at
picked up the phone, like mommy
00:14:16.58\00:14:18.59
I need to come home.
00:14:18.62\00:14:20.24
She is like, I don't
know, I've got a baby and
00:14:20.27\00:14:22.10
she was like come home.
00:14:22.13\00:14:24.60
Was that a turning point
for you? Did you know at that
00:14:27.22\00:14:30.70
point you were not going to, no!
00:14:30.73\00:14:32.27
I wasn't done. - isn't
that crazy, we are so crazy in
00:14:32.30\00:14:34.95
our addictions and to me
that breaks my heart because
00:14:34.98\00:14:38.35
I know the addiction is so
huge that nothing overrides
00:14:38.38\00:14:41.75
it until we are done.
00:14:41.78\00:14:43.32
Like with your letter,
were done and I'm having to say
00:14:43.35\00:14:45.58
goodbye, but you
weren't done yet?
00:14:45.61\00:14:47.82
No, I was getting there,
but what it did is it gave me
00:14:47.85\00:14:51.33
permission to keep going
now, because my mom would take
00:14:51.36\00:14:54.54
care of him, he was really sick.
00:14:54.57\00:14:56.50
She to her credit
did so much for him.
00:14:56.53\00:15:01.06
She basically nursed him
back to physical contact,
00:15:03.92\00:15:06.61
because he wasn't a
touchy baby, he would cry.
00:15:06.64\00:15:09.97
She would just hold him
until he stopped crying.
00:15:10.00\00:15:12.30
I have taken kids to do
volunteer work with drug babies,
00:15:12.33\00:15:15.80
and it hurts them so bad
that they cannot be held,
00:15:15.83\00:15:18.40
you cannot nurture
them, you can't sing to them,
00:15:18.43\00:15:21.15
you can't coo to them, the
thing she would do to normal
00:15:21.18\00:15:23.91
babies because they
are in so much pain.
00:15:23.94\00:15:26.11
He wasn't touched, so he
didn't know what the physical
00:15:26.14\00:15:30.44
contact was, and I
continued drinking and I had
00:15:30.47\00:15:33.42
a job at a bagel shop.
00:15:33.45\00:15:34.94
My boss would keep me employed
because I would take him
00:15:34.97\00:15:37.02
out on pay night. - you
gave him permission to drink?
00:15:37.05\00:15:43.32
He kept me employed
because I would buy, I'm buying,
00:15:43.35\00:15:47.44
we would go.
00:15:47.47\00:15:49.41
I ended up in that school
ten and they tell me don't drink
00:15:51.36\00:15:54.44
and we are going to teach you
about alcoholism and stuff and
00:15:54.47\00:15:57.91
I didn't want anything to do
that, so I continued to drink
00:15:57.94\00:16:01.35
and I decided I wasn't going to.
00:16:01.38\00:16:03.80
At Columbus Day in 97
was the last time in jail.
00:16:05.47\00:16:08.69
It wasn't for really anything
but I didn't have a light
00:16:08.72\00:16:12.07
on my bike, I didn't get
arrested for cool things I got
00:16:12.10\00:16:15.47
arrested for dumb stuff
like I got a ticket because I
00:16:15.50\00:16:18.50
didn't have my dog's
license and it went to warrant.
00:16:18.53\00:16:20.95
It was like look at me, and
you couldn't totally brag on.
00:16:20.98\00:16:24.19
Everybody was don't
worry you'll be out in no time.
00:16:24.22\00:16:27.41
Even the first I went to
jail I told them I was insane.
00:16:27.44\00:16:31.93
I was like suicidal and
they sent me to the state
00:16:31.96\00:16:34.08
hospital
because I was so scared.
00:16:34.11\00:16:35.70
I spent my whole life in
fear and I drank to mask that.
00:16:35.73\00:16:39.62
So I'm trying to stay
sober, it's January of 97 and
00:16:39.65\00:16:43.89
we go to this bar with my boss.
00:16:43.92\00:16:45.54
The gal behind the bar is
a friend of ours and I'm like
00:16:45.57\00:16:48.82
I'm not drinking tonight.
00:16:48.85\00:16:50.33
She said if you're in this
bar you drink and I say give
00:16:50.36\00:16:53.39
me half a beer, and that
is the last thing I remember
00:16:53.42\00:16:56.13
until the beginning of March.
00:16:56.16\00:16:58.04
Basically came to at an AA
meeting, sitting with a person
00:16:58.07\00:17:03.04
who was elbowing me, did
you hear that, did you hear
00:17:03.07\00:17:05.04
that, it sounds
like you, I was caught.
00:17:05.07\00:17:07.83
I was caught, like
oh man they got me.
00:17:07.86\00:17:10.89
Because I wasn't done, to
this day I think we call it
00:17:10.92\00:17:16.63
a brass knuckle bottom, I
think God had to knock me out
00:17:16.66\00:17:18.82
to get me here, that's
my feeling on the matter.
00:17:18.86\00:17:22.29
It was the only way I
was going to get here.
00:17:22.32\00:17:25.69
We use that a lot, God
putting you on the fast track
00:17:25.72\00:17:30.13
or knocking you out,
but you don't mean that,
00:17:30.16\00:17:33.45
but looking back
it felt like that.
00:17:33.49\00:17:34.94
It feels like that was
the only thing, - that in His
00:17:34.98\00:17:39.01
mercy, - yeah, thank you
for grace because here I am
00:17:39.05\00:17:43.05
where it is
going to save my life.
00:17:43.08\00:17:45.37
I was trying to back up
into the corner, I'm like I'm
00:17:45.40\00:17:48.46
caught but I can still get
out of here, what got it my
00:17:48.49\00:17:51.51
way was another man
at Alcoholics Anonymous.
00:17:51.54\00:17:53.47
He was twice my size and
10 times louder than I am
00:17:53.51\00:17:56.80
and he got my attention.
00:17:56.83\00:17:58.94
There was a lot of profanity
and he was bigger than my
00:17:58.98\00:18:03.40
head, so what the
drinking did for me he was doing
00:18:03.44\00:18:07.83
verbally and
basically put me in his car.
00:18:07.87\00:18:10.84
He said we are going to
meetings and that is what I did.
00:18:10.87\00:18:14.40
He became your
lifeline for awhile.
00:18:14.43\00:18:16.95
Yeah, he was my sponsor,
my first sponsor and basically
00:18:16.99\00:18:20.67
he was the
person that to I looked.
00:18:20.71\00:18:22.25
I could physically see,
feel and know that God is
00:18:22.29\00:18:27.28
operating in your life, I know
00:18:27.32\00:18:29.60
He can do something in life.
00:18:29.63\00:18:31.84
That man taught me how
to help other alcoholics.
00:18:31.88\00:18:36.22
We'd go to detoxes and
I would be seven-day sober
00:18:36.26\00:18:40.57
and they would be six-say sober
00:18:40.61\00:18:42.13
and tell me to talk
about getting them another day.
00:18:42.17\00:18:45.39
Usually we break for questions,
but I don't want to do
00:18:48.04\00:18:50.60
that today because I want
to stay with this and we don't
00:18:50.64\00:18:53.16
have a lot of time.
00:18:53.20\00:18:54.38
So I wanted to say that
you're not only in a 12 step
00:18:54.41\00:18:58.53
program, you have
decided I'm going to do it.
00:18:58.57\00:19:01.47
Maybe the guy in front of you
is deciding that you're going
00:19:01.51\00:19:04.64
to get into the car and keep
doing this and all that stuff.
00:19:04.67\00:19:07.58
I wish people could find that
in a church setting but a lot
00:19:07.61\00:19:10.49
of times they cannot, but
in AA somebody will stay right
00:19:10.52\00:19:12.94
with you until you are safe.
00:19:12.97\00:19:15.30
Or whatever that means to
them, and that is where you
00:19:15.33\00:19:18.70
guys met, is in the meetings.
00:19:18.73\00:19:21.33
I just see this
craziness across the room.
00:19:21.37\00:19:25.19
I see someone and say you know.
00:19:25.22\00:19:27.04
Well it's funny, seriously how
we met it was this meeting in
00:19:28.35\00:19:32.09
California, a huge meeting,
you had to show up an hour
00:19:32.12\00:19:35.82
earlier or you
weren't getting a seat.
00:19:35.86\00:19:37.55
It was huge and
there was one seat open and
00:19:37.58\00:19:42.64
it was right next to me.
00:19:42.68\00:19:44.12
This man happened to sit
in that seat, and me being the
00:19:44.15\00:19:48.02
awesome person that
I am I made fun of him.
00:19:48.05\00:19:50.13
- what did she say to you?
00:19:52.03\00:19:53.62
I had a work phone
that was all beat up,
00:19:53.65\00:19:55.65
and she says that
the pretty ghetto phone.
00:19:55.69\00:19:57.65
I said, I have a job you
know, - He was rude to me.
00:19:59.02\00:20:04.27
He was rude to me, so
I was instantly in love,
00:20:04.31\00:20:06.31
because I was still very
sick. Love at first insult.
00:20:06.34\00:20:10.29
That is funny - but I has
swore off woman, I was done.
00:20:10.33\00:20:13.55
I was going to be a single
dad, because I had my kids by
00:20:13.58\00:20:17.42
this time, and if I was to
be a single dad for the rest
00:20:17.45\00:20:21.25
of my life, then
that's how it would be.
00:20:21.28\00:20:23.16
Then we get to this meeting
and my friend is sitting in
00:20:23.19\00:20:26.24
the other seat and actually
I was going to sit next to
00:20:26.27\00:20:29.28
him, little did I
know that my wife was going
00:20:29.32\00:20:32.45
to be sitting next to me.
00:20:32.48\00:20:35.21
It was amazing. - you
know what really is tough?
00:20:35.25\00:20:39.84
Your testimony of what
happens from this point on is so
00:20:39.87\00:20:44.03
Rich and we only
have like six minutes.
00:20:44.06\00:20:49.16
I hate that, so
you guys get married.
00:20:49.19\00:20:54.22
Whoever can say this the
fastest, is that it was not
00:20:54.25\00:20:59.28
easy, you guys were still
crazy, acting out, and all that
00:20:59.31\00:21:03.03
stuff before God finally
got a hold of you and taught you
00:21:03.07\00:21:07.28
to love, that has only
been within the last how long?
00:21:07.32\00:21:11.47
Three months maybe,
yeah it wasn't easy,
00:21:11.50\00:21:16.23
marriage was not
easy, I only had six months
00:21:16.27\00:21:18.90
of sobriety, and I was
19, he had two kids full-time
00:21:18.93\00:21:25.98
our home was not a good home.
00:21:26.01\00:21:29.16
It was not a healthy home.
00:21:29.19\00:21:30.48
- everybody had
their garbage still?
00:21:30.51\00:21:32.11
Yes, very much so. He
always felt like he was useless.
00:21:32.15\00:21:36.21
He felt not good enough.
I constantly felt unwanted
00:21:36.24\00:21:40.27
an unloved, our
home was a bad home.
00:21:40.30\00:21:45.33
God was nowhere in
it, we talked about God,
00:21:45.36\00:21:48.14
and we thought we had
this relationship with Him,
00:21:48.17\00:21:50.78
and we accepted Him, but
there was no God in our home.
00:21:50.82\00:21:55.98
I know that not long
ago, you met my Pastor.
00:21:56.02\00:21:59.22
He is an awesome guy, and
he convinced you, first of all
00:21:59.25\00:22:04.35
I want to know how you
got to his place and that he
00:22:04.39\00:22:07.68
convinced you to allow
God into those deeper hurts.
00:22:07.72\00:22:10.35
I want you to talk a little
bit about that because that
00:22:10.38\00:22:12.97
is where the real
healing comes from.
00:22:13.01\00:22:14.28
It is like when you say
God, about that shame I have,
00:22:14.31\00:22:18.55
all that rejection I
have come so talk about that.
00:22:18.58\00:22:22.75
Well he left something on
the computer and I thought it
00:22:22.78\00:22:29.50
was mine and I went to go
check it and he was having an
00:22:29.53\00:22:36.21
emotional affair
with another woman.
00:22:36.25\00:22:39.79
- you had these
huge rejection issues.
00:22:39.83\00:22:43.31
Oh yeah, huge, and to me I
told him because it was the
00:22:43.34\00:22:47.51
emotional that I needed
so much, I told him he could
00:22:47.55\00:22:51.70
sleep with a thousand
women and it would not hurt me
00:22:51.73\00:22:55.85
as much as the
emotional affair did.
00:22:55.88\00:22:57.72
Because he said things to
her that he hadn't said to me
00:22:57.75\00:23:01.88
in years and I wanted a
divorce and I told him that.
00:23:01.91\00:23:06.00
He convinced me to go see Joe.
00:23:06.03\00:23:11.86
Joe, how did you? - a
friend of mine had worked with
00:23:11.89\00:23:17.22
him before and he said I
didn't finish but maybe you can,
00:23:17.26\00:23:21.53
here is his
number and I called him.
00:23:21.56\00:23:22.96
He was grumpy on the phone,
whatever, and I was like I
00:23:22.99\00:23:26.56
don't know if this guy can
help but we ended up going.
00:23:26.59\00:23:30.94
It was amazing to be in a
place where this guy is looking
00:23:30.98\00:23:34.35
at us and we are telling
him stuff that we have never
00:23:34.39\00:23:37.81
told anybody because our
hearts were so locked up,
00:23:37.85\00:23:41.20
even in our marriage, and I
had pulled out so far in the
00:23:41.24\00:23:45.44
marriage and she
was more of a poker.
00:23:45.47\00:23:48.96
We just locked up our
hearts from each other.
00:23:49.00\00:23:53.14
What's interesting, and
I wish we had more time.
00:23:53.17\00:23:57.24
What's interesting is for
Joe, he will never look at the
00:23:57.28\00:24:00.56
event, what happened and
what the hurt was, or what was
00:24:00.60\00:24:03.90
on the computer screen, he
wants to know what did your
00:24:03.93\00:24:07.20
heart feel. -
oh yes. - go ahead.
00:24:07.24\00:24:10.68
That is where I found
out, through my very first
00:24:10.71\00:24:14.68
childhood memory, I
felt unwanted and unloved.
00:24:14.72\00:24:18.62
All through my life every single
thing that ever happened to
00:24:18.65\00:24:21.74
me, was unwanted an unloved.
00:24:21.78\00:24:23.70
Uh huh, never good
enough for me, less than.
00:24:23.73\00:24:27.82
Again what's interesting is
when you allow God to come in
00:24:27.86\00:24:31.63
and be the
healer, be the counselor.
00:24:31.66\00:24:34.37
A lot of people say we don't
need to go to those places,
00:24:34.41\00:24:38.01
but if I constantly go
to the unloved and unwanted,
00:24:38.04\00:24:41.75
if I constantly go to the
never good enough I'm going to
00:24:41.79\00:24:45.12
put everybody in my life to
validate that until somebody
00:24:45.15\00:24:48.44
says that's not true.
00:24:48.48\00:24:50.15
In God's eyes you are
wanted, you are wanted more than
00:24:50.19\00:24:53.74
you know, more than
you can receive right now.
00:24:53.77\00:24:55.99
So what you had to do
sitting there with this Pastor,
00:24:56.03\00:25:00.60
is to allow God to
convince you that I want you.
00:25:00.64\00:25:04.88
I love you. - well
I got to see his pain.
00:25:04.92\00:25:07.65
Here all this time I thought
he was just a shell of a human
00:25:07.68\00:25:12.04
being that I
finally got to see his pain.
00:25:12.08\00:25:16.51
I mean I said some mean
things to him, I was not a nice
00:25:16.54\00:25:19.55
person and new in my
sobriety, especially when this
00:25:19.59\00:25:22.73
happened I said some,
I told him our five-years
00:25:22.77\00:25:25.88
marriage meant nothing to me.
00:25:25.92\00:25:27.63
So you were
feeling never good enough?
00:25:27.66\00:25:30.31
- so I pulled back more.
- the more he pulled back
00:25:30.34\00:25:34.21
the more I yelled,
the more I got angry,
00:25:34.24\00:25:36.65
the more insults. - when
you finally saw his pain,
00:25:36.69\00:25:39.80
what did you feel for him?
00:25:39.84\00:25:43.32
Love, compassion, I just
felt compassion and about the
00:25:43.35\00:25:52.18
healing, when I was
going through my bitterness,
00:25:52.22\00:25:54.82
my bitterness that I had
to feel free from, I actually
00:25:54.85\00:26:00.28
felt compassion for my first
stepfather that molested me
00:26:00.31\00:26:05.70
and beaten me, I felt
compassion for that man.
00:26:05.74\00:26:07.99
- and forgiveness? -
and forgiveness, yes.
00:26:08.02\00:26:10.20
So what the devil meant
destroy you with, you are
00:26:10.24\00:26:13.72
reclaiming and
actually going in and allowing
00:26:13.75\00:26:17.20
God to bring healing.
00:26:17.23\00:26:18.85
We are going to go ahead
and take a break and then we are
00:26:18.89\00:26:20.88
going to come back and I
would like you to stay with me
00:26:20.91\00:26:23.33
during the close because
I think a lot of people are
00:26:23.36\00:26:25.74
afraid of going to
those places to heal.
00:26:25.77\00:26:28.08
I know, I watched you one
day when you walked out of
00:26:28.11\00:26:32.38
there clean with no shame
and the joy that you had when
00:26:32.42\00:26:36.65
you walked into my
house I was like, I wish that
00:26:36.69\00:26:40.24
everybody could get that.
00:26:40.28\00:26:41.85
If you are brave enough,
if you trusted God enough,
00:26:41.89\00:26:45.82
or even just someone
enough to say I want to heal.
00:26:45.85\00:26:49.71
I want to go through this,
I don't want to carry this my
00:26:49.75\00:26:51.73
whole life, then
recovery makes sense.
00:26:51.76\00:26:56.29
You can't get that in 12
step group, you can't get that
00:26:56.33\00:27:00.02
anywhere but from God.
00:27:00.05\00:27:02.42
And I don't want to
knock any 12 step groups,
00:27:02.46\00:27:04.73
but you really can't get
that anywhere but from God.
00:27:04.76\00:27:07.78
We are going to be right
back and you have to stay with
00:27:07.81\00:27:10.79
us because this
is the good part.
00:27:10.83\00:27:12.77