Welcome back, I want to
start, we were talking about the
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book we are
giving out this season.
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'Pressing In' by Shelley
Quinn and I want to say that
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there is really an important
thing about learning to
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ask God and when
someone uses a learning to pray
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I didn't know what that meant.
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I was so new, but
on Philippians 4:8, 9.
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I love this concept
because it says, and now dear
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brothers and sisters, let
me say one more thing, I close
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this with fixing your
thoughts on what is true,
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honorable, right, think
about these things, what ever
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it is pure, lovely,
admirable, think about these
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things, whatever's excellent,
what is worthy of praise.
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I want to paraphrase
that, and say when you start to
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change, really ask God, or
ask the people around you to
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really check you up
about what you think about,
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what you let run in your head.
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If I'm going to change,
I'm going to change everything.
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Like the Bible says to renew
your mind, literally allow the
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Holy Spirit to come in and help
you to be different completely,
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don't allow yourself,
I don't have the luxury
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that some people have to
just think about negative things
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and let it just
run in their heads.
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Because if I do that I
want to escape and when I escape
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I go to my addictions, so I
have to really say God teach
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me to think good thoughts.
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Teach me to go outside and
take a deep breath and enjoy
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looking around, teach
me that kind of stuff.
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As an addict I want to
just say, let Him teach you.
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If you don't know how
to let Him teach you, get a
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sponsor, a Pastor, a church
group, join someplace where
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somebody is going to
confront you all those things.
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Now I'd like to
introduce you to the buzzard.
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The first time I saw poster
of this guy, they literally
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had him shaped as a buzzard.
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So I want to say, thank you
Mark for joining the program.
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Tell us about that and
how you got that nickname.
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Well it has nothing to do
with my diet first of all.
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- okay good,
because you're vegetarian?
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Yeah, it has been 40
years since I've had lunch with
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Ronald McDonald and has
nothing to do with the way
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I treat people as well.
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It has to do with actually
a police dispatcher named me,
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she named me that because
every time, as a chaplain,
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they had a coroner situation
they would call for me.
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I had developed a specialty
for doing that as a chaplain.
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So they would say
hey, send for the buzzard.
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So every time someone
died, killed themselves,
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was murdered,
you got a phone call?
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Yeah, I was the go to
guy if I was available.
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Now of course the buzzard,
law enforcement officers
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have to live with the
sadness all of time so they
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developed a gallows
humor and so, the buzzard.
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- very funny because
that's what I thought,
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if something was
dead, you were there.
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Yes, I was there.
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So I want to find out
before we even get to what you
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did for a living, I
want to find out who you are?
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I love to figure out
how did God lead somebody,
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what was your journey like.
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You never got into
chemical addictions or
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any of that stuff, hey?
- None of what you would
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categorize
normally as addictions.
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With me my addiction had
to do the approval of people.
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- That is a huge one though!
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Oh yes, to this day I
struggle with it all the time,
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to find my identity in
what people think of me instead
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of what God thinks of me.
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What's interesting is I
wrote a book, 'A Miracle From
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the Street' about coming
out of all those addictions.
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Sometimes I will be speaking
in a church and people that
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have such incredible back-
grounds will say I so related
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to that and I'm thinking how?
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It's that sense of wanting
to fit in or belong and all
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those kinds of insecurities.
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So that is as
binding as any addiction.
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Absolutely, I
deal with it everyday.
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I have to
discover again who I am.
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- and believe the
truth about yourself?
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- yes, exactly! - it's huge.
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But you are okay? - yeah,
it's like as a child growing
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up, my dad, should I
get into this right now?
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- we love this stuff.
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My dad was a war
hero, he was a war hero.
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He won a Silver Star in World
War II defeating the Nazis.
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He came back and married a
German war bride and brought
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her back to the United States
and figured hey, this is a
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great way to raise a
family, it won the war.
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So force and fear you know.
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So he, in his Bible, he
actually crossed out grace and
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put works, and
crossed out love and put fear
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there in his Bible.
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He raised us that way so we
were afraid of him, afraid of
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God, afraid of everything.
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- what is really tough for
me hearing you, is that there
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is a part of him, I'm sure,
thought he was do the right
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thing, that I love my son
and I want to stand him up.
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I want him to be a man.
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Yes, he thought he was
helping us to do just that but
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instead we were all very fear
to this day is the predominant
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characteristic that I
have, it is my default thing and
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unless I am filled with the
Spirit and I can remember who
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I am and who God is that I
can face it with confidence.
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Otherwise fear has it.
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- when we talked about the
whole radar thing where you
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get stuck at, that's
where you get stuck at?
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Yes exactly. - not being
afraid of getting stuck there
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now I know I
have turn this over.
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Sure exactly. - because
that is not the truth of my
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existence. -
that's right it's true.
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Growing up like that
must've been really tough.
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Yea, we ran away, my mom
took us away seven times,
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but she always ran out of
money and we had come home.
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In my life, 22 times, I
counted them the other day.
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22 times we moved because
somebody was either mad at us
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or we couldn't pay
the rent, or something,
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we were on the run I guess.
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A person would call us
White trash can just always
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unable to settle down.
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The depth of how that, in
our own mind, not in God's
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mind, in our own
mind identifies us.
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This is who I am, this is
whom I'm always going to be.
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That is such an incredible
addiction and hard to get
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out of, because then we
see the world and anything that
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validates that view
we pull into our lives.
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So how did you get out of that?
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Because you know I wish I
could say, wish I could say
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it in a deeper way because
I don't think people realize
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that is in every
fiber of your body.
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You are really checking
whether you are safe no matter
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where you are at,
whether I fit in where I'm at,
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what people are
thinking about me where I'm at,
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it is so much in your
fiber and coming out of that is
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more of a miracle than, I
think parting the Red Sea.
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Somebody says God parted the
Red Sea and I thought I saw Him
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change a life
of an addict today.
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I think that is more of a
thing, I saw Him give somebody
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that was afraid their
whole life the courage to walk
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away from that fear.
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To me I just want to
kiss Him on the face when
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I see that, because I
want to say, God how do You
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do that for this kid?
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So how did He do that for you?
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Yeah, actually things got
a little worse before they
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got better, as I got into
my teenage years I had delayed
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puberty and my
voice didn't change.
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I was always the youngest in
my class as well so that deeply
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affected my
self-worth, issues so
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I had I was really at
the bottom of the social
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totem pole so to speak.
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- and being teased
and all that stuff.
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All that unkindness and
all that which helped developed
00:08:06.07\00:08:10.03
in me a real sense for the
oppressed, a real desire to
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help the victim, a real desire
to help people in trouble.
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- to see them
even. - yes, yes, yes.
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What really helped me get
out of that, and as you say
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journey, but what started
me on a journey was the birth
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of my son,
holding him in my arms.
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The first time I held him,
I instantly perceived that all
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this stuff I had experienced
from my father, all the stuff
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I had been taught
about God, was all a lie.
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There was this whole set
of emotions that I didn't even
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know existed and they were
all there just holding my son.
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So it started there and
then I started looking in the
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Bible from a different way.
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I would see things in
the Psalms I never understood
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before about God being a father.
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This compassion for my
son, and this compassion I now
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knew that God had
for me to feel special.
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- you allowed that
in for the first time,
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because of your
son it sounds like.
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Uh-huh, uh-huh. -
because there is that sense that
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I could know that
unless I allowed it in.
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Unless I allow it to penetrate,
is not going to change me.
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But it sounds like you
just said, okay, I surrender.
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I did, I did and there are
other stuff in terms of legalism
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and stuff that I was
coming out of with my wife.
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Both of us were on
this journey together.
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That's where it started,
and seeing all these Scriptures
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that I had read
before but overlooked.
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I found them very healing to me.
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- can you think of some of them?
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Because you know God is
our friend was one for me.
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You know those
are really powerful.
00:09:57.63\00:10:00.09
Psalms 73, where it says,
"so foolish was I and ignorant,
00:10:00.12\00:10:04.91
"I was like a beast before
you, nevertheless I am always
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"with you, you hold me by
my right hand, you guide me
00:10:09.68\00:10:14.32
"with your counsel and afterword
you receive me into glory. "
00:10:14.35\00:10:18.05
A you know you could
just see that Father image,
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let Me just have your
hand and let Me walk you.
00:10:21.34\00:10:23.98
I mean you could just
see that whole father image.
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When I saw something like
that and I'm sure it's true for
00:10:26.62\00:10:30.42
a lot of people watching,
when I saw stuff like that in
00:10:30.45\00:10:33.84
the Bible, I just wanted to
weep, I thought I didn't know
00:10:33.87\00:10:37.22
that Your heart
was so towards me.
00:10:37.26\00:10:40.15
That is huge, that's huge.
00:10:40.19\00:10:42.53
God healed me to the
point where a friend of mine,
00:10:42.56\00:10:45.66
I was doing telecast
scripts with him for the
00:10:45.69\00:10:48.72
It Is Written telecast,
and he said you know, through
00:10:48.75\00:10:53.35
watching you raise your
kids, our kids grew up together.
00:10:53.39\00:10:57.42
He said I understood about
father love, God is my Father
00:10:57.45\00:11:01.44
in a way that I had
never witnessed before.
00:11:01.48\00:11:04.45
I thought wow to come out
of that into - healing be so
00:11:04.48\00:11:08.89
full circle that somebody
is saying I want model myself
00:11:08.93\00:11:13.30
after how you love your son.
00:11:13.34\00:11:15.07
Yes, yes, yes! And he actually
wrote a script about and
00:11:15.11\00:11:17.93
changed the name around,
but I thought praise God.
00:11:17.97\00:11:23.10
How incredible, so as God
healed you, you never lost
00:11:23.13\00:11:27.06
that sense of wanting to
come in and step in for the
00:11:27.09\00:11:30.98
victim or the
underdog, so did that lead
00:11:31.02\00:11:33.43
you into your vocation then?
00:11:33.46\00:11:35.30
It did, it did, I was a
Pastor these years in Arizona.
00:11:35.33\00:11:40.41
- I could see you as a Pastor.
00:11:40.45\00:11:41.84
Well thank you, in
other words I preach like...
00:11:41.87\00:11:45.41
- no you have
such love your eyes.
00:11:45.44\00:11:48.55
I was a member of the
ministerial Association and the
00:11:48.59\00:11:52.50
Baptist Pastor there who
is the head of that said,
00:11:52.53\00:11:56.02
I really think that you
could be a police chaplain.
00:11:56.06\00:11:59.51
We will train you, so
I said good and he did.
00:11:59.55\00:12:02.99
So I found myself, all
of a sudden, in all these
00:12:03.03\00:12:06.40
situations and there was a
part of me that really loves
00:12:06.43\00:12:09.85
excitement, -
you have some there!
00:12:09.88\00:12:13.08
Every time the siren
goes off, something happens.
00:12:13.11\00:12:17.13
It is not only a physical
emergency, but it is a profound
00:12:17.17\00:12:20.17
emotional and
spiritual emergency as well.
00:12:20.20\00:12:23.59
- because people forget,
sometimes when the chaplain
00:12:23.63\00:12:25.83
is called, or the police
are called, you have an entire
00:12:25.86\00:12:28.26
community of families
around whatever the event is.
00:12:28.30\00:12:31.90
You cannot just deal with
an event without picking up
00:12:31.94\00:12:36.60
the collateral damage, and
so I like the fact that you
00:12:36.64\00:12:41.27
said, there is
more to it than just
00:12:41.30\00:12:42.88
responding to the call.
00:12:42.91\00:12:44.60
But I have to ask you one
thing, because I came from that
00:12:44.63\00:12:48.85
darker side and I know that
some of the stuff you see is
00:12:48.88\00:12:53.07
incredibly ugly,
you know what I mean?
00:12:53.10\00:12:57.89
You see people that are
able to step in and do some
00:12:57.93\00:13:01.59
horrendous acts of
violence against someone else,
00:13:01.62\00:13:06.43
so how did you as a
Pastor, how did you acclimate,
00:13:06.47\00:13:11.24
how did you get used to that?
00:13:11.28\00:13:12.84
There was one experience
in particular when they had
00:13:12.87\00:13:18.24
just picked up a guy
for first-degree murder,
00:13:18.27\00:13:20.64
they charged him with that.
00:13:20.67\00:13:22.02
Instead of wanting to see
a lawyer, he wanted to see a
00:13:22.05\00:13:24.89
chaplain, this is a guy
who just murdered a woman in
00:13:24.92\00:13:27.68
the act of committing
rape and it was this aggravated
00:13:27.71\00:13:30.95
situation as had been
an in the county for years.
00:13:30.98\00:13:34.11
So they called me in
and they put me in the room.
00:13:34.14\00:13:37.23
Thank God there
were bars between us.
00:13:37.26\00:13:40.58
They shut the door and
the first thing he does is
00:13:40.62\00:13:43.99
confess first-degree murder.
00:13:44.02\00:13:46.06
- in that case most the time
they want to tell you the all
00:13:46.10\00:13:50.25
the details. - yes. - because
part of our illness is that.
00:13:50.28\00:13:54.40
He wanted some quick
absolutions father I have sinned
00:13:54.43\00:13:57.64
like I was a
priest or something.
00:13:57.67\00:14:00.20
I said you know I can
talk to you about God and His
00:14:00.23\00:14:04.64
forgiveness, but I need
you to know first of all that
00:14:04.68\00:14:08.56
I'm not going to get
involved in the police aspect,
00:14:08.59\00:14:11.98
the law and defense,
the legal defense of that.
00:14:12.01\00:14:14.75
We are just going to be
talking about the spiritual
00:14:14.79\00:14:17.49
side of this and so
I told him about Jesus.
00:14:17.53\00:14:23.21
I told them that, "he
who covers his sins shall not
00:14:23.25\00:14:26.30
"prosper but whoever confesses
and forsakes them shall
00:14:26.33\00:14:29.72
"have mercy. " And he accepted
it right then and there.
00:14:29.76\00:14:33.11
We prayed together,
but you know Cheri after
00:14:33.14\00:14:35.91
leaving him, I felt weird.
00:14:35.94\00:14:40.31
I felt weird because I
thought I believe in grace,
00:14:40.34\00:14:44.05
but grace for this guy I
could even see the blood on his
00:14:44.09\00:14:48.35
his cuticles from his
victim, grace for this guy
00:14:48.39\00:14:50.61
was a little too
radical, a little too quick,
00:14:50.64\00:14:52.80
too soon and I almost
felt like I had done something
00:14:52.83\00:14:57.40
wrong in helping
this guy feel forgiven.
00:14:57.44\00:15:01.01
- and find
peace. - and find peace.
00:15:01.05\00:15:02.89
Because you can see it in
his eyes, if he believed you
00:15:02.92\00:15:04.91
he had found peace, and
maybe for the first time.
00:15:04.95\00:15:08.58
Yeah, I felt hey, then I
got to remind myself, well,
00:15:08.61\00:15:14.13
aren't we all sinners?
Don't we all exist by grace?
00:15:14.17\00:15:19.62
- you know even for some of
the addicts watching and don't
00:15:19.66\00:15:22.58
understand the concept of
sinners, I just want to say,
00:15:22.62\00:15:25.51
aren't we all twisted?
00:15:25.54\00:15:27.26
Don't we all have that stuff
within us, that we struggle
00:15:27.29\00:15:30.69
with, some are definitely
are tormented unto the point of
00:15:30.72\00:15:34.09
what you are talking about.
00:15:34.12\00:15:35.68
What you are saying is,
isn't it incredible that there
00:15:35.72\00:15:39.29
is a God who says! - yes, yes!
00:15:39.33\00:15:42.14
So I had to deal with that,
so I had to say you know I'm
00:15:42.18\00:15:46.79
saved by grace, by God's
mercy, by God's kindness through
00:15:46.82\00:15:51.40
Jesus so I better
embrace this grace.
00:15:51.43\00:15:54.99
He did and he decided to
plead guilty and he went off
00:15:55.02\00:16:01.33
to the state penitentiary
and was giving Bible studies.
00:16:01.36\00:16:07.33
So it really confronts the
fact that when you see it to
00:16:07.36\00:16:11.71
that level it confronts
the fact of how big is God's
00:16:11.75\00:16:16.06
forgiveness, how big
is His love towards us.
00:16:16.10\00:16:18.93
Some of it in our own human
sense makes no sense at all
00:16:18.96\00:16:23.75
because I want someone to pay.
00:16:23.78\00:16:26.10
When I first read the
story about the demoniac,
00:16:26.13\00:16:28.84
I thought surely that
guy is going to have to pay,
00:16:28.88\00:16:31.38
Christ walked up to Him,
and not even smart enough not
00:16:31.42\00:16:34.20
to cuss Him out, first
thing he does is cusses Him out.
00:16:34.24\00:16:37.84
God hears that small cry
in his heart and pulls all the
00:16:37.87\00:16:41.44
demons out, literally
brings his life around.
00:16:41.47\00:16:44.21
So you see that
time and time again.
00:16:44.24\00:16:47.11
What did it do for
your connection with God?
00:16:47.14\00:16:53.12
To see God's
mercy to that level?
00:16:53.16\00:16:56.21
Sometimes we see His
mercy just on simple things,
00:16:56.25\00:16:59.33
but that is so deep.
00:16:59.37\00:17:02.03
Sure, well there is a
morbid illustration of that,
00:17:02.07\00:17:06.77
if I could share it?
00:17:06.80\00:17:08.19
The Bible says we are all
dead in trespasses and sins,
00:17:08.22\00:17:11.73
in our own addictions
what ever they may be.
00:17:11.76\00:17:14.05
If you could just picture
a morgue, like I said this
00:17:14.09\00:17:18.36
is morbid, but it
makes a good point I think.
00:17:18.39\00:17:21.52
Can you imagine one
corpse, if corpses could talk,
00:17:21.56\00:17:24.72
arguing with another
corpse saying I'm not as messed
00:17:24.75\00:17:27.86
up as you are. - how dead
are you? - yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:27.89\00:17:30.64
I'm not as messed up as
you are, you look like you were
00:17:30.68\00:17:33.71
hit by a train, but me my
hair is not even messed up.
00:17:33.75\00:17:36.57
Just a little bullet hole
and you might not even see it.
00:17:36.60\00:17:39.39
So I am not as
bad off as you are.
00:17:39.43\00:17:41.53
Wow, they are all dead, they
all have a tag on their toe.
00:17:41.56\00:17:45.94
Yes, yes, so for me to
realize that hey, we are all in
00:17:45.97\00:17:50.64
that morgue until Jesus
came along and rescued us.
00:17:50.67\00:17:54.80
I love that, because I
love the fact that I don't have
00:17:54.84\00:17:58.21
to compare myself with
you, my addictions with you,
00:17:58.25\00:18:02.03
my inability to live
out loud and enjoy my life.
00:18:02.06\00:18:05.65
If I'm damaged, I'm
damaged and I need to reach out
00:18:05.69\00:18:09.25
to who can fix that.
00:18:09.28\00:18:10.76
That is huge, that
is a great illustration.
00:18:10.80\00:18:13.84
Tell us some of the
stories you have been through.
00:18:13.88\00:18:17.06
Talk about them.
- Sure, let's see.
00:18:17.09\00:18:21.10
There was a time when the
beeper went off in the middle
00:18:21.14\00:18:24.78
of the night, and of
course that is always trouble.
00:18:24.82\00:18:29.22
Usually a death notification,
in this case particularly
00:18:29.25\00:18:33.62
it was a 15-year-old
boy, who had just saw
00:18:33.65\00:18:37.34
his dad kill his mother.
00:18:37.38\00:18:38.88
Here they brought
him into the station and
00:18:38.91\00:18:42.34
they called me in, they
couldn't even interview him,
00:18:42.38\00:18:45.65
he was so traumatized.
00:18:45.68\00:18:47.50
The first thing they
had me do was to tell him he
00:18:47.54\00:18:51.03
couldn't wash his hands,
the blood of his mother and
00:18:51.06\00:18:54.51
brother, I should back up a bit.
00:18:54.55\00:18:57.64
His dad had been abusive,
mother had to put him out.
00:18:57.67\00:19:02.71
She lived in the house
with the two teenage boys and
00:19:02.75\00:19:07.76
then he started
calling right about sundown.
00:19:07.79\00:19:11.14
He would say look out
and see the sunset, isn't it
00:19:11.18\00:19:13.53
beautiful? Enjoy it because it
is one of the last you will see
00:19:13.56\00:19:15.98
and he wasn't kidding.
00:19:16.02\00:19:18.13
He broke in about midnight
and the boys woke up and heard
00:19:18.16\00:19:22.29
their mother screaming
and their father shouting.
00:19:22.32\00:19:24.30
He had broken in so they
ran downstairs and he grabbed
00:19:24.33\00:19:29.18
the phone and
dialed 911 on the way.
00:19:29.21\00:19:31.46
He was a few steps behind
his brother who got shot the
00:19:31.49\00:19:34.61
moment he entered the bedroom.
00:19:34.64\00:19:36.52
The father shot his
mother and then shot himself.
00:19:36.56\00:19:39.76
So he comes in and there
are three people, his three
00:19:39.80\00:19:42.97
dearest people in the
world, dying right there.
00:19:43.00\00:19:46.62
He runs from one to the
other, getting his hands all
00:19:46.66\00:19:48.91
bloody and the police come in.
00:19:48.94\00:19:51.58
And you have tell them he
can't wash the evidence away.
00:19:51.61\00:19:54.95
Yeah, the gunshot residue
and so to explain that to him.
00:19:54.99\00:19:59.12
Then just to calm him down
so he could be interviewed.
00:19:59.15\00:20:03.55
That was his story that
his father shot them, but they
00:20:03.59\00:20:07.95
have to make, sure
of course, that he is.
00:20:07.99\00:20:12.32
But just to help that poor
15 year old guy through the
00:20:12.36\00:20:16.85
darkest night of his life,
and then one day dawned and
00:20:16.89\00:20:21.35
the press is all
outside wanting to talk to him.
00:20:21.38\00:20:24.39
The first day of the
rest of his life, how to cope
00:20:24.43\00:20:27.40
with that, - how to
stand back up. - yes!
00:20:27.43\00:20:29.95
In any sense how
to breathe again.
00:20:29.98\00:20:31.55
I don't know if this
question is appropriate,
00:20:31.59\00:20:38.53
I'm thinking in my mind,
when I see addictions every day,
00:20:38.56\00:20:42.99
and I see the ugliness
of that and molest, all this
00:20:43.02\00:20:46.70
tragedy that we go through
in life, is how do you keep
00:20:46.73\00:20:50.37
your view of God clean?
Do you know what I mean?
00:20:50.41\00:20:54.54
Because we want to somehow
pile all the blame on God.
00:20:54.58\00:20:57.81
I know that God really
would jump in front of everyone
00:20:57.85\00:21:00.73
of us to make better choices,
every one of us to do the
00:21:00.76\00:21:03.89
right thing, He constantly
tries to get people to make
00:21:03.92\00:21:06.97
the right choices in
their life, and yet He gives us
00:21:07.01\00:21:10.56
that will, how do you
allow God not to be so damaged?
00:21:10.59\00:21:14.10
To have blood on His own hands?
00:21:14.14\00:21:15.99
Sure, for me I think of
a little parable Jesus told
00:21:16.02\00:21:21.28
about the tares, an
enemy has done this.
00:21:21.31\00:21:24.39
Wonderful world
you can see in nature,
00:21:24.42\00:21:27.46
where did this evil come from?
00:21:27.50\00:21:30.79
Then the great controversy
between good and evil,
00:21:30.82\00:21:34.28
the narrative of how God
created the perfect universe.
00:21:34.31\00:21:39.16
How Lucifer became proud
and power-hungry and such.
00:21:39.20\00:21:43.97
It gives us a narrative that
helps me understand that there
00:21:44.01\00:21:48.83
is a loving God, and
there was none of this stuff
00:21:48.86\00:21:51.58
going on when He had His
way and there will be closure,
00:21:51.62\00:21:55.50
there will be none of
this stuff going on after
00:21:55.54\00:21:57.68
He wraps things up.
00:21:57.72\00:21:59.98
The only reason He allows
things to keep going right now
00:22:00.01\00:22:03.63
is because He is so merciful,
He wants all the Cheri's
00:22:03.67\00:22:08.12
and Martin's to understand
the difference between light
00:22:08.16\00:22:13.61
and darkness, healing and
addiction, health and disease.
00:22:13.64\00:22:18.66
So when this good news is
received, then God is going to
00:22:18.69\00:22:22.87
put an end to all that
and there will be once again,
00:22:22.91\00:22:27.05
this beautiful Eden.
00:22:27.08\00:22:29.62
So you keep the larger
picture in mind. - sure!
00:22:29.65\00:22:33.08
When someone told me one
time, that I was molested since
00:22:33.11\00:22:37.07
I was three months old by
my father who died in a crack
00:22:37.11\00:22:41.82
house strung out, and when
someone said Cheri you know
00:22:41.86\00:22:46.38
God allowed this, I just
had to take that to prayer.
00:22:46.41\00:22:50.22
I remember almost be an
angry, what do you mean?
00:22:50.25\00:22:53.99
God that can't be true, and
all of a sudden I got this clear
00:22:54.02\00:22:57.67
picture in our own addictions
is that if He could stop
00:22:57.70\00:23:01.05
everybody from acting
out, from being insecure,
00:23:01.09\00:23:03.66
from being afraid, from be
an angry, and choosing to do
00:23:03.69\00:23:06.49
meth, and all that stuff.
00:23:06.52\00:23:08.12
If I could stop all that,
I would come but you have the
00:23:08.16\00:23:11.57
freedom of your own choice.
00:23:11.60\00:23:13.71
Of your own will, and it is
so important for God to give
00:23:13.74\00:23:17.17
us that ability to be fully
human that He said, I am not
00:23:17.21\00:23:20.60
going to override your
choice, but I wish I could
00:23:20.64\00:23:23.76
sometimes, because you
are hurtful to each other.
00:23:23.80\00:23:26.75
I learned a long time
ago that God would have done
00:23:26.78\00:23:29.70
anything to get my
father to be a father.
00:23:29.73\00:23:31.90
He did, He approached
him in many different ways.
00:23:31.93\00:23:34.49
My family from not using
drugs were approached in many
00:23:34.53\00:23:37.46
different ways, and I think
every single person that you
00:23:37.50\00:23:40.36
worked with during those
incredibly horrendous crimes,
00:23:40.39\00:23:43.29
is I see all of heaven
approaching them in so many
00:23:43.33\00:23:46.19
different ways
saying, please choose life.
00:23:46.23\00:23:49.89
There is a place the Bible
where it says I laid before
00:23:49.92\00:23:52.50
you life or death, choose life.
00:23:52.53\00:23:54.79
I think I have to really
look at God as weeping with us
00:23:54.82\00:23:58.82
at these horrendous crimes,
it was never His intention
00:23:58.85\00:24:02.81
that we would be this
malicious to each other.
00:24:02.84\00:24:06.31
Right, I'm so thankful
that God can and does work
00:24:06.34\00:24:09.77
all things for good.
00:24:09.80\00:24:10.92
I mean here you are a
host of this television program
00:24:10.95\00:24:14.02
reaching people all over.
00:24:14.06\00:24:15.74
I think the devil is very
sorry he messed with your life.
00:24:15.78\00:24:18.66
I never heard
that, that is too fun.
00:24:18.69\00:24:21.17
Like I should have
just let her alone.
00:24:21.21\00:24:23.62
Not only do you have healing
for yourself, but you are
00:24:23.66\00:24:27.63
sharing this comfort and
to have a purpose in pain.
00:24:27.66\00:24:31.60
I want to kiss you
on the face for that,
00:24:31.64\00:24:33.56
what a nice thing, even
the imagery is cool, is that,
00:24:33.59\00:24:37.04
that it is really cool.
00:24:37.07\00:24:39.44
2 Corinthians were it talks
about what we suffer, what we
00:24:39.48\00:24:44.60
suffer, that comfort abounds
so that whatever suffering
00:24:44.63\00:24:48.31
we are going through, the
comfort even more abounds.
00:24:48.34\00:24:51.94
I believe that sometimes,
you know we are called priests.
00:24:51.98\00:24:54.95
We are the priest of
believers, and priests suffer.
00:24:54.98\00:25:00.12
They deal with stuff that
they didn't do, other people's
00:25:00.15\00:25:04.12
messes they help them with.
00:25:04.16\00:25:07.01
Of course everybody
has to on their own mess,
00:25:07.04\00:25:09.78
but we are not Messiah's,
but we are as priests.
00:25:09.82\00:25:12.88
We are connectors, God
has been merciful to me.
00:25:12.91\00:25:16.15
He has brought healing
in my life and He could do
00:25:16.19\00:25:19.39
this for you too.
00:25:19.42\00:25:21.25
So that God can work
all this pain for good.
00:25:21.28\00:25:25.08
Amen, and then use it.
00:25:25.11\00:25:28.73
I remember the first time
I was thinking I'm not going
00:25:28.76\00:25:32.23
to make it, I'm not
going to get through this.
00:25:32.27\00:25:33.89
God told me a
joke and I thought,
00:25:33.93\00:25:36.60
did You just tell me a joke?
00:25:36.64\00:25:38.27
Because I wanted to say, I
just didn't have that picture
00:25:38.31\00:25:41.96
of God that He would say
something to make you laugh
00:25:42.00\00:25:45.62
when you are going
through some hard times.
00:25:45.65\00:25:47.24
Just been able to get to
the point of fully trusting Him.
00:25:47.28\00:25:50.81
So as He is leading you, go
back to your vocation, as He
00:25:50.85\00:25:54.35
is leading you into
this type of work, as you are
00:25:54.38\00:25:59.30
learning it is amazing to
me that you are learning not to
00:25:59.33\00:26:03.17
be afraid, you are confronted
with fearful situations all
00:26:03.20\00:26:07.00
the time, and yet God
is developing this sense of
00:26:07.04\00:26:09.92
courage in you because
of who He is in your walk.
00:26:09.96\00:26:12.99
That just cracks me up,
that He hit every point that
00:26:13.03\00:26:16.03
you had as a child.
00:26:16.06\00:26:17.32
Let me talk about
that for a second.
00:26:17.36\00:26:19.34
So here I am, my predominant
default reaction to life is
00:26:19.38\00:26:24.00
fear, so here I am the
buzzard venturing forth into
00:26:24.03\00:26:28.01
these death situations,
and I didn't go timidly.
00:26:28.05\00:26:31.96
I went boldly, it just,
the Spirit of God came upon me
00:26:32.00\00:26:37.18
and I realized that
Christ has conquered death.
00:26:37.22\00:26:40.54
It's a terrible thing,
it is an enemy, but it is a
00:26:40.58\00:26:43.96
conquered enemy so we
can storm the gates of hell.
00:26:43.99\00:26:47.30
We can go into these situations
where people are suffering
00:26:47.34\00:26:52.14
the loss of their
loved ones and we can bring
00:26:52.17\00:26:53.78
hope, even though they
are in the middle of shock.
00:26:53.82\00:26:58.10
This is the worst night of
their life and I'm going to be
00:26:58.14\00:27:01.15
there for them, and I'm
going to represent God to them.
00:27:01.19\00:27:03.78
I'm going to help them
through that night so that when
00:27:03.81\00:27:07.75
day dawns and their
friends wake up, their Pastor or
00:27:07.78\00:27:11.68
priest wakes up and
their counselors wake up,
00:27:11.72\00:27:14.18
they are going to be
ready to connect with them.
00:27:14.22\00:27:16.90
But tonight I am here
for them and it is because
00:27:16.94\00:27:19.59
Jesus conquered death.
00:27:19.62\00:27:21.15
- through the Holy
Spirit and through what
00:27:21.18\00:27:22.64
He gives you to
say to them. Wow!
00:27:22.68\00:27:25.69
I want you to know that
before I went out that door,
00:27:25.72\00:27:29.01
I had my face and the rug
for a few seconds before I put
00:27:29.05\00:27:32.31
on my uniform, dear God
You have helped me before,
00:27:32.34\00:27:36.62
but tonight I am not going
to leave this house to go down
00:27:36.65\00:27:41.17
to the station
unless You are with me.
00:27:41.21\00:27:44.29
Of course He always is.
00:27:44.32\00:27:45.80
So the thing about calling
you buzzard, if you are around
00:27:45.83\00:27:51.33
or someone died, something
dead around that it really was
00:27:51.36\00:27:55.55
that people respected the
fact that you could come in and
00:27:55.58\00:27:59.78
bring at least the ability
for them to survive the night.
00:27:59.81\00:28:04.96
So to me it makes a lot of
sense now they would want you
00:28:04.99\00:28:08.96
there, if I'm a police officer
and I know that I'm dealing
00:28:09.00\00:28:12.41
with this tragic thing and have
to process all the paperwork,
00:28:12.45\00:28:15.83
I would want somebody
that I could turn the family,
00:28:15.86\00:28:18.84
or victims over to and
that they will be in the arms
00:28:18.87\00:28:22.28
of a loving individual
and therefore a loving God.
00:28:22.31\00:28:26.03
Another thing that helped
me is to clearly understand
00:28:26.06\00:28:29.77
what the Bible teaches
about death, nobody is in hell
00:28:29.80\00:28:33.64
right now, and no one is
floating off by themselves into
00:28:33.68\00:28:37.48
some spirit realm,
but death is a sleep.
00:28:37.52\00:28:41.41
Just understanding that I
don't have to worry about the
00:28:41.44\00:28:48.77
departed and what's
happening with them right now.
00:28:48.80\00:28:50.59
We can deal with this situation
and help you get through,
00:28:50.63\00:28:54.44
and respect, and now
you may be an agnostic or an
00:28:54.47\00:28:58.07
atheist but I am coming
into your home and I'm going to
00:28:58.10\00:29:01.66
look around for artifacts.
00:29:01.70\00:29:03.39
If I do not see any Bibles
or religious artifacts I'm not
00:29:03.43\00:29:06.80
going to push God on you.
- speak it a different way.
00:29:06.84\00:29:11.54
But still speak it, and
for a lot of us we don't assess
00:29:11.58\00:29:16.08
enough, you can walk in
and really look around and know
00:29:16.12\00:29:19.96
who you are talking to,
and I'm glad somebody did that
00:29:19.99\00:29:23.80
for me when I was a
heroine addict in recovery.
00:29:23.84\00:29:26.69
I was a literate and all
that stuff and they didn't just
00:29:26.72\00:29:29.45
come in and say do you
know what it says in Genesis?
00:29:29.49\00:29:32.66
They really spoke to me
in love and helped me stand,
00:29:32.69\00:29:35.83
so been able to do that.
00:29:35.86\00:29:37.74
So we are going to break
for a commercial pretty soon,
00:29:37.77\00:29:42.70
but I want to ask you, so
your journey with God as you
00:29:42.73\00:29:47.31
come out to of that whole
childhood and He is showing
00:29:47.35\00:29:51.00
you to be less afraid,
and as you are giving that to
00:29:51.03\00:29:55.25
people in horrendous
situations, what is it like for
00:29:55.28\00:29:59.46
you and God right
now? Where are you at?
00:29:59.49\00:30:01.68
Well I find every day
I need to get up and just
00:30:01.71\00:30:06.23
rediscover for
today who I am to God.
00:30:06.27\00:30:10.69
So your maintenance,
we're talking about maintenance
00:30:10.72\00:30:12.91
and your
maintenance to hook in everyday.
00:30:12.95\00:30:15.10
Who am I, who are you. -
I'm not some barnyard chicken
00:30:15.14\00:30:19.80
pecking around there, He
made me an eagle in Jesus Christ
00:30:19.83\00:30:23.68
so I soar in the Spirit,
to peck around at the barnyard
00:30:23.72\00:30:28.69
looking for a pat on the head
at the age of 58, I can soar.
00:30:28.73\00:30:32.97
That is a real good imagery
because you are saying that
00:30:33.01\00:30:36.82
if you find your self pecking
and looking for the smaller
00:30:36.85\00:30:40.17
things is you have to
remind yourself that you are an
00:30:40.20\00:30:43.75
eagle, you are an incredible
man of God and fears not
00:30:43.78\00:30:47.29
something that
controls your life anymore.
00:30:47.32\00:30:48.95
We are going to go on a
break and come back and open
00:30:48.99\00:30:51.49
for questions because I
know there are questions.
00:30:51.52\00:30:55.67
I just have to say that
I really enjoyed the fact,
00:30:55.71\00:30:59.15
I laughed at the buzzard
thing, that people called you
00:30:59.19\00:31:02.39
the buzzard, I laughed I
was overwhelmed by what you do
00:31:02.43\00:31:05.27
for a living, because I
read your book, 'God Was There'
00:31:05.31\00:31:08.90
and so even in that I looked
at some of the stuff you did
00:31:08.93\00:31:13.01
but had no idea really the
extent of fear you walk through
00:31:13.05\00:31:17.10
life with and that God
Himself is saying that is your
00:31:17.13\00:31:20.45
recovery is to
deal with this fear.
00:31:20.49\00:31:22.10
I'm proud of how He
is doing it with you.
00:31:22.14\00:31:23.99
We are to go ahead and
take a break and come back and
00:31:24.03\00:31:26.82
ask the people at the café
if they have any questions and
00:31:26.85\00:31:29.55
I think you are really
going to enjoy this next part as
00:31:29.59\00:31:32.25
much as the testimony.
00:31:32.29\00:31:34.12
So stay with us,
we will be right back!
00:31:34.16\00:31:35.89