Welcome back, I'm going to
introduce you to Tom and Vicki,
00:00:11.31\00:00:13.77
but before we go there Vicki
I would like to say couple more
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things about what you
said on the last segment.
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The importance of any
relationship as it ends whether
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divorce, or death, or whatever,
just as a relationship ends is
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to do the healing
first is really important.
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You did a lot of healing
with pastors, with counselors,
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looking at those feelings
of worthlessness, what did I do
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right, what did I do wrong,
what things did I carry into
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that relationship
that was a problem.
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It looks like you've
covered a lot of that.
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I want to encourage
people, if you are going through
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that in your own life,
don't jump into another
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relationship, even though
I'm an relationship addict.
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So to me what I realize
in my healing and recovery,
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is I did not know how
to be outside of that.
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If you are like that find
some one around you to teach you
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how to stand on your own.
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When you stand on your
own and get that recovery work
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done, you can bring so
much into a relationship
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and it is amazing.
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So I'm glad that you
shared that with us, thank you.
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I would like to
know how you guys met?
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How did you and Tom met?
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Will actually we
met at a contemporary
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Christian music concert.
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I was driving around the
square with my mother and I saw
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it was going to be on
that evening, this was like two
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hours before
the concert started.
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I said to my mother, I
wanted to go to that and I
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completely forgot about it
and didn't even get a ticket.
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My mother said I'm not
interested in that kind of thing
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at all, so you will
have go by yourself.
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It was just like the Holy
Spirit spoke to me, I said you
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know what mom, I really
feel like I'm supposed to go,
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alone that's
okay, I'll go by myself.
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I got home and started calling
around and there was a ticket
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outlet there,
locally and I called them.
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The gal put me on hold to
go and check and see if they
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had tickets, she came
back and said you know what?
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They have one
ticket left. - No way!
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By this time it was an hour
before the concert and I said
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that is my ticket,
and I gave her my name.
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I said please hold it for me.
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I went straight over
there and got that ticket.
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Later on I found out that
actually, before the concert,
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they will go around to
different venues and if
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there are any tickets left,
they will pick them back up.
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So it's a miracle if
they had that ticket there.
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So I got that ticket, I've
got there a little bit before
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the concert began, I hadn't
been to that particular venue
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before so I was asking where
general seating and reserved
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seating the difference, because
here's my ticket, it was general
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The man was pointing out
to me and said if you go right
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up there that is
your general seating.
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I was following his hand
and where he was pointing is
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where he was sitting.
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- God is too fun! - So when
I got there he smiled at me.
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I thought well
he looks friendly.
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I wasn't looking for a date
or boyfriend or anything but
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I thought he doesn't look
like somebody that would bite
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my head off if I
asked is this seat taken.
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He does look like
a friendly person.
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So I asked him if the seat
on the end was taken and that
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would have put three
seats in between myself and him.
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He said I'm sorry all
those seats are taken.
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He said I'm actually
saving them for friends.
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I thought oh, but then he said,
but actually this seat right
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here is not taken,
beside him on the other side.
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He said if you would sit
here I would be delighted.
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And I thought oh he is so
nice, so I took that seat.
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We had a few minutes
before the concert started so we
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introduce yourselves and
became a little bit acquainted.
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I was reading,
what book was I reading?
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'A Purpose Driven Life', I
was reading A Purpose Driven
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Life and he said, oh I have
read that book and we started
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talking about it and
one thing led to another.
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He found out that I was
divorced, I found that he was
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divorced and we
were comparing notes.
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We found out a lot of
the feelings that we had been
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through were very much the same.
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So we had some common ground.
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How we re-connected with God and
re-established our relationship
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with the Lord and had actually
grown closer to the Lord
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as a result of the
things that we had been through.
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So by the time the concert
started I was thinking, wow,
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what a cool person.
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So as you are sitting
there and she's sharing freely,
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or openly about this
divorce, what were you thinking?
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I had many years before
that been through it all.
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Well part of a when, she was
sitting next to me I thought,
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wow, one of it was, I
don't know how to get this other
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than the story, part my
story was two weeks before that
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a Pastor friend of mine, I
had been helping him in this
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little small church.
00:05:03.99\00:05:05.57
He was a Pentecost Pastor
and it was totally different
00:05:05.60\00:05:08.54
for me and he called me
out in the middle church and
00:05:08.57\00:05:11.05
stopped his church and
said, pointing to these ladies
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and said write this down.
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The Lord wants me to tell
you something, he's my friend.
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I'm like okay oh boy
what is he going to say?
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You have a wife and
she's coming quickly and the
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Lord wants you to know that.
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When you are doing what you
are supposed to be doing she
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is going to come,
and he smiled at me.
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Afterwards I
said, what was that?
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I said are you serious,
he said I'm sorry the Lord
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impressed me to tell you
that, and he was my friend.
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This was like a
week before I met her.
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Ironically I started working
back in radio that night.
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I was not there actually
just with friends, I was there
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because I had announced
that night, I had just started
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working back in
radio and television again.
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I was up there announcing
that night and introducing this
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group and she just
happened to come sit next to me.
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Then I was sitting there
and we were comparing notes and
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I was going, no,
I don't think so.
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I had this been dating
somewhat earlier to that and had
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come to the point that
that relationship was ending.
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I thought, no this is not
that easy, I wasn't sure, but
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I noticed that she this woman
that was really growing in the
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Lord, and I was at
this point as well.
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I have been through
quite a lot before that.
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- talk about, before we
get to this, talk about,
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we know what Vicki's gone
through because she shared with
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us, what was your divorced like?
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Was it similar as
far as your healing?
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What did that look like?
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Mine was quite a long
process, and to tell a little
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of the background, I was
one, I guess you could say,
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that was just shocked.
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I had a wife that
just decided to leave.
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- you thought
everything was right?
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Oh I did, and again a typical
man thing to be honest with
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you, I look back on it now
and think that there was some
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things she was crying out
for help and I didn't see it.
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I was the one that was
left, I was the one that went
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counseling alone
for a whole year.
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It was so bad for me where
I I had gone through, at that
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time, I owned 3
companies, lost the 3 companies,
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was losing my home, and
having to share custody with my
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kids, which devastated me.
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I was being accused on TV of
taking money from clients and
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not performing services,
lawsuits and everything else.
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I was at the point where,
even after going to counseling,
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I remember my first wife
said she wanted to get back with
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me, and then a week
later I get divorce papers.
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I was devastated and to
the point, that one particular
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day I decided I was going
to find a gun and shoot myself,
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and I was planning
the whole thing out.
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While I was getting ready
to actually go in to do this
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stuff, I saw no hope.
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Here's the amazing
thing, I was a believer, I knew,
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and before that you
could say I had a charmed life.
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I had, radio, television,
grew up in a Christian home,
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everything you can imagine.
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I didn't drink, I didn't
smoke or have any of those
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issues, quote "every one
else", my family is good.
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And my family was good.
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A pillar of the church,
taught, was on everything,
00:08:01.65\00:08:05.44
look at Tom, whoa,
people would say that.
00:08:05.47\00:08:08.47
This took place so quickly,
in fact the point I left
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the church I was in on
the advice of my good friend,
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who was a Pastor.
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He said you actually need
to leave, and it was the best
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advice I ever had, because
people here can't believe your
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wife would have left you, you
must've done something wrong?
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It sounds like the tornado
that Vicki was talking about.
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It was an emotional tornado
for you, you've got slammed.
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- I got slammed and the day is
amazing, the day I was trying,
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the first time I
wanted to end my life.
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Right when I was planning
to do this someone knocked
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at my door, my dad shows
up in the middle the day.
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We started talking and I
was telling him everything
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that was going on.
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I think I even made the
words I don't see any hope,
00:08:46.86\00:08:48.05
I don't see anything.
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He looked at me and said
you're not, out of his mouth
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these words, you're not
trying to hurt yourself are you?
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I didn't want to say yes.
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He very clearly said you
know you have two kids, they
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need their dad so bad, this
is just stuff you're losing.
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You can start all over again.
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I was raised in a Christian
tradition where, this is what
00:09:08.75\00:09:12.70
devastated me too, if you
get divorced you can no longer
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serve God, it's out the window.
00:09:16.69\00:09:18.58
- a lot of people believe that.
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They believe it and I was
believing it too until I had
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a very wise Christian woman pull
me aside, an incredible woman
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that pulled me aside,
she was an older lady.
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She said to me, you know
Tom, He is going to take this
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and use this for His glory
and we are praying that will
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happen in your life.
00:09:38.74\00:09:39.81
Well it was several years,
I went back into television,
00:09:39.84\00:09:42.53
I had to go back to work.
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That sounds funny that I
had to go back to work in a
00:09:43.63\00:09:46.11
different way, getting
back in TV and getting back in
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radio, and I had gotten to
the point where I just didn't
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want to ever do that again.
00:09:52.13\00:09:53.59
I started dating someone
up here in Southern Illinois.
00:09:53.63\00:09:57.28
and I would come up here
to help and go to her church.
00:09:57.31\00:10:00.81
I remember that I was
praying during that time, it was
00:10:00.85\00:10:04.23
a whole cycle for me, where
again a man's self worth is
00:10:04.26\00:10:08.54
found in his vocation and
in those things that are very
00:10:08.58\00:10:12.79
important to men, all of a
sudden, it was stripped from me.
00:10:12.82\00:10:15.31
I was out working and
actually got to the point where
00:10:15.35\00:10:18.14
I was in between jobs, I
was leaving the television
00:10:18.18\00:10:20.90
station because of being a
single dad and I couldn't work
00:10:20.93\00:10:24.01
night side, I
couldn't continue doing that.
00:10:24.05\00:10:26.24
During that time I worked
with networks and all these
00:10:26.27\00:10:30.19
things when I was in my
20s and will go wow, neat.
00:10:30.22\00:10:33.90
It just wasn't satisfying
at all, none of it was.
00:10:33.93\00:10:37.20
I just thought I want
to get rid of all this.
00:10:37.23\00:10:40.42
I remember I had an accident
up here helping a lady that
00:10:40.46\00:10:44.11
I was dating at the time,
I had come up here to visit.
00:10:44.14\00:10:47.99
She was a single mom and I
cut her yard and got my foot
00:10:48.02\00:10:50.86
caught underneath the
lawnmower and got stuck here.
00:10:50.89\00:10:53.52
I was in between insurance
and I couldn't go anywhere.
00:10:53.56\00:10:56.16
I was stuck here
for several weeks.
00:10:56.19\00:10:57.68
I was going to say,
somebody could've just lifted
00:10:57.71\00:10:59.14
the lawnmower up.
00:10:59.18\00:11:00.32
- seriously, but these little
things just kept happening.
00:11:00.36\00:11:04.32
More than once, there was
another time I wanted to end my
00:11:04.36\00:11:08.29
life during that time.
00:11:08.33\00:11:09.31
I was about to lose my house
and I remember my kids were
00:11:09.35\00:11:13.93
leaving and the hardest
time for me as a dad was, I used
00:11:13.96\00:11:18.50
to go in and spend
time with my kids at night.
00:11:18.54\00:11:20.54
Pray with them
and all these things,
00:11:20.57\00:11:21.80
it was ripped from me.
00:11:21.84\00:11:24.07
It was pulled away and I
remember on Sunday nights they
00:11:24.10\00:11:27.24
would leave and it was
the hardest night for me.
00:11:27.27\00:11:30.55
I just remember one
Sunday evening, I just thought
00:11:30.58\00:11:33.82
I can't take this pain anymore.
00:11:33.85\00:11:36.17
My kids had to go home to
be with their mom and I decided
00:11:36.21\00:11:38.44
I can't take it anymore.
00:11:38.47\00:11:39.45
So I remember that I thought
about that and was thinking-
00:11:39.49\00:11:42.73
- I think for a lot of
people, that a father is so use
00:11:42.76\00:11:45.72
to being able to hold and
love and kiss on their children
00:11:45.76\00:11:49.45
and now they are not even
able to live in the same house.
00:11:49.49\00:11:52.85
No they're not and that was
devastating, that was harder
00:11:52.89\00:11:57.04
for me at that point then
the divorce and the absence of
00:11:57.07\00:12:01.19
the wife, and the
waiting and it didn't happen.
00:12:01.22\00:12:04.10
I was going to counseling,
which really helped me during
00:12:04.14\00:12:07.56
that time, it was an
incredible Christian man,
00:12:07.59\00:12:09.18
a wonderful guy and he began
dealing with me, issues with
00:12:09.22\00:12:12.70
me, he didn't focus on her.
00:12:12.74\00:12:14.75
It was like wait a minute,
and reminding me because I was
00:12:14.78\00:12:18.03
going through
these suicidal thoughts.
00:12:18.07\00:12:20.16
I know he knew that but
that night right after that
00:12:20.20\00:12:24.93
happened my kids had written
post-it notes on the door and
00:12:24.97\00:12:27.81
when I was literally thinking
about doing it again I had
00:12:27.84\00:12:30.28
shut the door to the bedroom
and there was post-it note
00:12:30.32\00:12:32.81
that said dad, I love you
very much and the other one
00:12:32.84\00:12:35.29
said dad, I miss
you, wish I were here.
00:12:35.33\00:12:38.55
It just stopped me and I
finally started realizing
00:12:38.59\00:12:42.08
something was there and got
where it took a long process,
00:12:42.12\00:12:46.04
but I went through all that
and finally relocated up here.
00:12:46.07\00:12:49.96
I really didn't want...
- were you angry at her?
00:12:49.99\00:12:54.23
Yes I was and it grew,
here's the thing it grew.
00:12:54.27\00:12:58.21
At that point I was
so hurt I couldn't feel.
00:12:58.24\00:13:02.14
In fact during
that process I got where
00:13:02.18\00:13:05.60
I couldn't do my job.
00:13:05.64\00:13:08.13
I couldn't edit, I'm very
creative but I could even think
00:13:08.16\00:13:12.13
creatively, I forgot how
to edit, I forgot how to shoot
00:13:12.17\00:13:15.78
with the camera, I forgot
how to voice, I do voice for
00:13:15.82\00:13:19.40
a living and speak on the air.
00:13:19.44\00:13:20.80
Those skills started leaving
me, it was like something was
00:13:20.84\00:13:23.79
wrong with me and I
couldn't figure out what it was.
00:13:23.82\00:13:26.68
You're very essence was
leaking out, like I totally
00:13:26.71\00:13:29.54
don't have it, wow.
00:13:29.57\00:13:30.91
So I decided I'm not
going to do radio and television
00:13:30.94\00:13:34.81
again, I basically put
my hand up one day and said,
00:13:34.84\00:13:37.90
God if you want me to do
that ever again, You are going
00:13:37.94\00:13:41.05
to have to step down and show
me because I'm not doing it.
00:13:41.08\00:13:44.74
- I love it, I love it
because you are talking to God.
00:13:44.77\00:13:48.78
Listen here. - through
all this I knew there was a
00:13:48.82\00:13:52.76
relationship with Him and
to be honest with you, at this
00:13:52.80\00:13:56.21
point when I tell people this.
00:13:56.25\00:13:57.55
The thing that spoke to me
was music, I couldn't listen
00:13:57.58\00:13:59.80
to sermons and for the
first time in my life I couldn't
00:13:59.84\00:14:02.02
take meat I had to have milk.
00:14:02.06\00:14:03.38
It was a total different
thing where I learned, I guess
00:14:03.41\00:14:07.11
you could say to depend
upon, it was the thing where I
00:14:07.14\00:14:10.80
needed my Heavenly Father.
00:14:10.84\00:14:11.93
I needed, I didn't need
the superficial Christian.
00:14:11.97\00:14:15.84
I didn't need the superficial
trappings, I needed to be
00:14:15.88\00:14:18.94
cared for, I had never
been to that point in my life.
00:14:18.98\00:14:22.01
- I'm dying here. - I'm
dying here and You need to
00:14:23.71\00:14:26.65
hold me, in fact
I lost everything.
00:14:26.69\00:14:29.09
So much so that I had to go
back to live with my parents.
00:14:29.12\00:14:32.42
Here I am a 40-year-old
guy and had three companies and
00:14:32.45\00:14:35.71
was making all
the money I wanted.
00:14:35.74\00:14:37.13
I had radio and television
and I had to come, my dad
00:14:37.17\00:14:39.69
which was great, they
came and took care of me for a
00:14:39.72\00:14:42.20
long time, my dad
had to buy me a car.
00:14:42.24\00:14:43.94
I had no car, I had no
way, I had nothing, zip zilch
00:14:43.98\00:14:48.51
for a while, that was difficult.
00:14:48.55\00:14:51.61
But as we go forward,
another thing about that prayer
00:14:51.65\00:14:56.16
I prayed, I went to visit
this church one time and this
00:14:56.20\00:14:59.41
is where I met this first
Pastor that became my friend.
00:14:59.45\00:15:02.73
He too had been through a
divorce, and he was in a similar
00:15:02.76\00:15:06.01
situation and had actually
been dethroned as a Pastor
00:15:06.04\00:15:08.64
of a church
because he was divorced.
00:15:08.68\00:15:11.33
Just because something
happened in his marriage.
00:15:11.36\00:15:12.93
Sometimes you want a raise
your hand, but I did do it.
00:15:12.96\00:15:17.08
I didn't even want it.
00:15:17.12\00:15:18.47
I met this guy and he was
from New York and I was from
00:15:18.50\00:15:22.29
Memphis, Tennessee, polar
opposites, in fact our theology
00:15:22.33\00:15:26.08
was totally different.
00:15:26.11\00:15:27.35
We had this thing they
came together and I met him one
00:15:27.39\00:15:30.85
night when I went to a
church service and they were
00:15:30.88\00:15:34.30
praying over people.
00:15:34.34\00:15:35.61
I used to go to this one
church just to be prayed for.
00:15:35.65\00:15:37.73
I had never been to that
point where I wanted people
00:15:37.76\00:15:39.81
to pray for me and that was it.
00:15:39.84\00:15:40.96
I was to that point and
needed somebody to say was
00:15:41.00\00:15:43.57
going to be okay.
00:15:43.61\00:15:44.94
- I hope that
everybody watching heard that.
00:15:44.97\00:15:46.93
If you get to that point...
00:15:46.96\00:15:49.21
- you just have to
put your hand on someone.
00:15:49.25\00:15:50.61
That is true, if you are on
the end where you see someone
00:15:50.64\00:15:54.17
and you know, just pray for
them, put your hand on them,
00:15:54.20\00:15:57.69
give them a hug.
00:15:57.72\00:15:59.18
- it's nothing, you don't
even have to say magic words.
00:15:59.22\00:16:01.43
It's just I need
someone to touch me.
00:16:01.46\00:16:04.00
If somebody to
touch me, that is so true.
00:16:04.03\00:16:06.53
By the way, men
need that too, bad.
00:16:06.57\00:16:09.77
They don't know how to
ask for which is worse.
00:16:09.81\00:16:12.92
Women know how
to ask for it more.
00:16:12.95\00:16:14.29
- I know as a man, I finally
figured out it is very hard,
00:16:14.33\00:16:17.25
I think, for men to
understand their feelings.
00:16:17.28\00:16:19.47
You have these horrible
hurts and you can't explain it.
00:16:19.51\00:16:23.24
I know now because I have
a wife that's great with that
00:16:23.27\00:16:26.68
and I have three grown
daughters, so I really know.
00:16:26.72\00:16:30.06
It's awesome, to know their
feelings, but sometimes I find
00:16:30.10\00:16:35.26
myself, sometimes as men
we do have feelings but it is
00:16:35.29\00:16:40.42
like we can't get
in touch with them.
00:16:40.45\00:16:41.86
We can't, it's like
ah, I don't feel bad.
00:16:41.89\00:16:45.04
You don't know what they
are or how to define them.
00:16:45.08\00:16:48.38
How do you explain them?
00:16:48.41\00:16:49.99
Back to that, one night
I'm at this church service and
00:16:50.02\00:16:54.35
about to walk out the
door because I had enough and
00:16:54.39\00:16:58.68
I was going to go
back and work in the studio
00:16:58.71\00:17:00.99
I had started working in.
00:17:01.02\00:17:02.10
I said I guess God doesn't
have anything for me here.
00:17:02.13\00:17:06.94
I started thinking that
way and was like if You want me
00:17:06.97\00:17:10.40
to be in media again,
this thing came up in my head,
00:17:10.44\00:17:13.81
let me know and all the
sudden this Pastor at the front
00:17:13.85\00:17:17.19
of the church stopped
and said, you in the Orange.
00:17:17.23\00:17:19.68
I looked around and of
course it was me, I had this
00:17:19.72\00:17:22.13
bright orange shirt on.
00:17:22.17\00:17:23.50
I was walking out to leave
and he said, God has a great
00:17:23.54\00:17:27.93
anointing in your life
and He wants you to know.
00:17:27.96\00:17:30.44
He is going to use you in
radio and television, and he
00:17:30.47\00:17:34.73
said you have been in that
but for some reason something
00:17:34.76\00:17:38.99
has happened and he
went into this other detail.
00:17:39.02\00:17:41.49
He said you are going to be
involved in networks and will
00:17:41.53\00:17:45.04
be behind the camera
and in front of the camera.
00:17:45.08\00:17:47.10
God wants you to know that
so you don't forget what your
00:17:47.14\00:17:51.05
calling and where
you are suppose to be.
00:17:51.09\00:17:52.65
This is right
after it was in my head.
00:17:52.68\00:17:54.01
- this is when
you were discouraged.
00:17:54.05\00:17:55.31
- totally and I had just
said that as I was walking out
00:17:55.34\00:17:57.81
this door, you want me to
be in radio and television,
00:17:57.85\00:18:00.02
I'm getting a job and started
thinking of all these other
00:18:00.05\00:18:02.19
vocations and then this
guy stops and says this.
00:18:02.23\00:18:05.44
I meet him later and he
was like, I'm sorry he said,
00:18:05.47\00:18:08.62
but I felt so impressed to
tell that of the Lord in front
00:18:08.65\00:18:11.13
of everyone, tell me why.
00:18:11.17\00:18:12.66
I told him what had happened.
00:18:12.69\00:18:14.11
He said I don't know what's
going to take place but God
00:18:14.14\00:18:16.60
wants you to do
that so move forward.
00:18:16.63\00:18:19.05
Several years before I had
actually turned down a very
00:18:19.09\00:18:21.76
big job to work at a
Christian television network,
00:18:21.80\00:18:24.41
for some reason I felt the
Lord didn't want me to do that.
00:18:24.44\00:18:26.92
Right after that I took a
job with a friend of mine at a
00:18:26.95\00:18:29.40
local TV affiliate
here, the ABC station said,
00:18:29.43\00:18:32.05
would you come work?
00:18:32.08\00:18:33.99
I said yeah, what have you got?
00:18:34.03\00:18:36.36
He said we only have minimum
wage jobs, would you take it?
00:18:36.40\00:18:39.83
I started at the bottom
again and immediately they made
00:18:39.86\00:18:43.26
a job for me and
all these things.
00:18:43.29\00:18:44.83
I was going on, a few
months before I had met Vicki.
00:18:44.87\00:18:47.75
I had kind of gotten to a
point of recovering, where I had
00:18:47.79\00:18:52.08
gone - were you
can breathe again,
00:18:52.11\00:18:53.63
- where I can breathe again.
00:18:53.67\00:18:54.89
I finally started a relationship
and started dating and got
00:18:54.92\00:18:59.21
stuck here and all
kinds of things like that.
00:18:59.25\00:19:00.98
She knew more what that other
person was like, this isn't
00:19:01.01\00:19:06.07
going to work
out more than I did.
00:19:06.10\00:19:07.53
It just became a thing
where I resigned, okay Lord
00:19:07.56\00:19:12.19
you know I will be a dad
and do whatever you want me to
00:19:12.22\00:19:16.53
do and I will be happy.
00:19:16.57\00:19:18.41
I don't have to get married
again, I had gotten to that
00:19:18.44\00:19:20.73
point where it is okay.
00:19:20.76\00:19:23.40
If You want me to be
single, I'll be single.
00:19:23.44\00:19:25.53
First of all my kids, I prayed
that they would come back.
00:19:25.56\00:19:30.23
During that time too I
started praying for justice.
00:19:30.27\00:19:33.52
I think I mentioned this to you.
00:19:33.55\00:19:34.89
Justice because what had
happened to me, I was the one
00:19:34.92\00:19:37.76
that was left, I was the one
that was abandoned, I was the
00:19:37.80\00:19:40.60
one - that was
blindsided - was blindsided.
00:19:40.64\00:19:43.74
I felt so, there is a
humiliation to it but also just,
00:19:43.78\00:19:48.89
if the word was the victim
syndrome, during that time
00:19:48.93\00:19:54.00
I had to work
through some anger.
00:19:54.04\00:19:56.66
Big-time anger, and even
though you can be the one who
00:19:56.70\00:20:01.52
might be called the
victim, I got were I hated and
00:20:01.56\00:20:06.35
the word was angry.
00:20:06.38\00:20:08.46
Being hurt turned to anger,
it is part of the process,
00:20:08.50\00:20:11.76
it is the grieving process.
00:20:11.79\00:20:13.34
I like to say divorce,
you know why God says I hate
00:20:13.37\00:20:17.67
divorce, it is not
the people, we know that.
00:20:17.71\00:20:20.95
It is because it rips the
fiber of the family, it rips,
00:20:20.99\00:20:25.15
the best term is rips
your guts out as an individual.
00:20:25.18\00:20:28.73
It destroys the family, it
destroys the kids and it is
00:20:28.77\00:20:32.28
a rippling effect
for your whole family.
00:20:32.32\00:20:34.28
It is not just you personally.
00:20:34.31\00:20:36.07
- Usually even the
church. - and the church.
00:20:36.11\00:20:38.44
It really does and I
became to understand that.
00:20:38.47\00:20:40.74
People go through it, it is
very hard and my opinion was
00:20:40.77\00:20:45.02
it is like going through
death, but the corpse is still
00:20:45.05\00:20:49.27
there and they are
still yelling at you.
00:20:49.30\00:20:50.92
That is really the way I
felt, but I had to work through
00:20:50.96\00:20:56.05
that and I got angry
to be honest with you.
00:20:56.08\00:20:57.71
I understand what it means
when the Bible says angry and
00:20:57.74\00:21:00.19
sin not, angry to the
point of hatred and murder.
00:21:00.22\00:21:05.72
- David said, David said
in the Psalms, I would like to
00:21:05.76\00:21:08.67
bash their teeth in,
when he expressed his anger,
00:21:08.71\00:21:12.46
it was really intense stuff.
00:21:12.49\00:21:13.83
I felt that way, and I would
even say those things to God.
00:21:13.87\00:21:18.51
Give me justice, she has
to pay, I didn't deserve this.
00:21:18.54\00:21:23.15
But then, God used that
to start looking at Tom.
00:21:23.18\00:21:29.46
And more of that has come
to me over the past few years,
00:21:29.50\00:21:31.63
that wait just a moment.
00:21:31.66\00:21:33.18
You can put the list of
things that she did and people
00:21:33.22\00:21:36.58
will go oh yes, oh yes,
oh yes but wait Tom there is
00:21:36.61\00:21:39.94
murder in your heart.
00:21:39.97\00:21:41.36
Not just hatred, there
is murder in your heart.
00:21:41.39\00:21:43.84
Sin is sin, is sin, and you
may be the quote "innocent one",
00:21:43.87\00:21:47.56
but how is it going
to be your response?
00:21:47.59\00:21:51.24
Is it going to be
Mine in this or not?
00:21:51.27\00:21:54.84
I think that was rolling
through me and I had gotten to
00:21:54.88\00:21:58.20
the point where I kind
of got over the hatred part.
00:21:58.24\00:22:01.74
Still a little angry,
would love to stir things up,
00:22:01.78\00:22:05.25
but I wanted justice.
00:22:05.28\00:22:06.81
During that time I had gotten
to the point where she had,
00:22:06.84\00:22:10.31
hers was on the fast
track, I was on the slow track.
00:22:10.35\00:22:15.26
I think I had more to
learn because I was one of those
00:22:15.29\00:22:19.15
individuals who hadn't
been forgiven of a lot because
00:22:19.18\00:22:23.00
I hadn't done a lot.
00:22:23.04\00:22:24.87
Where the one who loves
much, the one who has been
00:22:24.91\00:22:28.41
forgiven, the whole principle
is if you have been forgiven
00:22:28.45\00:22:32.80
a lot, you love and
forgive a lot yourself.
00:22:32.84\00:22:35.44
I hadn't been one
of those individuals.
00:22:35.48\00:22:38.01
I could say was on the goody
two shoes side where I think
00:22:38.05\00:22:42.27
it is a deeper thing
and God had to deal with me.
00:22:42.30\00:22:46.58
So there is almost 3 to
4 years between that time,
00:22:46.62\00:22:50.86
but I gotten were I was ready.
00:22:50.90\00:22:54.15
- Amen, but that's huge
though, isn't that huge because
00:22:54.18\00:22:57.68
I think when you are on
that side you don't see a lot of
00:22:57.71\00:23:01.31
your own stuff and it is
really tough to be a place where
00:23:01.34\00:23:04.90
you surrender because
you say, surrender what?
00:23:04.94\00:23:07.21
It takes God a
while to start showing you
00:23:07.24\00:23:09.86
- your true colors. - yeah,
yeah and it is really tough
00:23:09.89\00:23:15.08
for people who have a
lot of junk is real easy.
00:23:15.12\00:23:17.57
We look at ourselves and
think, oh yeah I have got,
00:23:17.61\00:23:19.99
I'll give you this plus let
me go get my suitcase because
00:23:20.03\00:23:22.98
I have more stuff.
00:23:23.02\00:23:24.34
Oh yeah, for a while
I couldn't see anything.
00:23:24.37\00:23:27.44
Then I finally started
realizing that God had a plan.
00:23:27.48\00:23:34.80
I had no clue what that
plan was, but as I began to
00:23:34.83\00:23:42.08
re-establish and I guess you
could say as a man I got back
00:23:42.11\00:23:45.13
where my confidence came
back and I began working at what
00:23:45.16\00:23:48.14
I was good at.
00:23:48.18\00:23:49.71
I took it a step at a time
until I really decided, okay
00:23:49.75\00:23:52.75
Lord, what ever You want.
00:23:52.78\00:23:54.07
So about that time it is
when I began seeking all this.
00:23:54.10\00:23:58.43
In the middle of that I was
that this little bitty church
00:23:58.47\00:24:02.26
and when my Pastor friend
was gone I was a substitute
00:24:02.29\00:24:06.05
Pastor off and on.
00:24:06.09\00:24:07.56
I would do a lot of
work, so it was a small thing.
00:24:07.59\00:24:10.56
I came from these huge churches
and all these huge things
00:24:10.60\00:24:12.73
and I was in this little
small town, in this little small
00:24:12.77\00:24:14.87
TV station, in this
little small radio station,
00:24:14.91\00:24:16.82
and everything
was 180, scaled down.
00:24:16.85\00:24:19.65
That was in this little
small church with just a few
00:24:19.69\00:24:22.66
people and that was when that
one week end that this Pastor
00:24:22.70\00:24:26.50
friend I got to know
said, I was like, do what?
00:24:26.54\00:24:29.15
What are you saying again?
00:24:29.18\00:24:30.24
He was like you're going to
meet your wife, and I thought
00:24:30.27\00:24:32.85
no I don't believe that stuff.
00:24:32.89\00:24:35.16
God doesn't work miracles,
I didn't really believe that.
00:24:35.19\00:24:38.78
To be honest with you, I'm
sorry the Canon was closed and
00:24:38.82\00:24:42.38
Scripture and I'm not
just supposed to sit and wait.
00:24:42.41\00:24:45.00
That was my
thinking and I knew him.
00:24:45.04\00:24:49.21
I knew he had done some
things, but I did not know what
00:24:49.24\00:24:52.89
was about to come and
then that night we met.
00:24:52.92\00:24:56.28
It was amazing, because I
knew when she said she had the
00:24:56.32\00:25:01.65
last ticket, she said, I got it.
00:25:01.69\00:25:03.31
Well I knew they picked
those things up earlier and I
00:25:03.35\00:25:05.76
knew that was an impossibility
because they were all
00:25:05.79\00:25:08.17
picked up, but you got one.
00:25:08.21\00:25:10.26
So we started comparing notes
and I think we even went to
00:25:10.30\00:25:15.46
eat and we just
started connect after that.
00:25:15.49\00:25:19.06
You could probably go a
little further with it, you know
00:25:19.10\00:25:22.74
all the, she
knows all the details.
00:25:22.77\00:25:24.80
- women know all the details,
even now a concert is over,
00:25:24.83\00:25:29.57
and you guys are eating,
was there a sense that God is
00:25:29.60\00:25:34.30
doing something, that
God is involved in this.
00:25:34.33\00:25:37.43
Did you guys get that sense?
00:25:37.46\00:25:38.82
Oh yeah I did, I didn't
know again, me I thought she,
00:25:38.86\00:25:42.02
and I originally thought
maybe I could help her because
00:25:42.06\00:25:45.18
she had been
divorced less time than I had.
00:25:45.22\00:25:47.71
I actually gave her a phone
number and said if I can do
00:25:47.75\00:25:51.91
anything, you know,
here's my number, you need help,
00:25:51.94\00:25:56.06
call me, call me.
00:25:56.10\00:25:57.64
We did that, funny that
night we stayed until one or two
00:25:57.67\00:26:01.09
o'clock in the morning and
I had to be working television
00:26:01.12\00:26:04.50
news at 3 a. m.
00:26:04.53\00:26:07.04
- you could tell
he liked you. - yeah!
00:26:07.07\00:26:11.16
We started trying to
leave about 10 o'clock, I put my
00:26:11.20\00:26:13.93
purse all my shoulder and
he said, I'm going to get the
00:26:13.97\00:26:16.66
bill and I said,
you don't have to.
00:26:16.70\00:26:18.25
He said yeah I will.
00:26:18.28\00:26:19.76
He starts to lean over in
his chair and I moved over my
00:26:19.80\00:26:22.67
chair and the next
three hours went like that.
00:26:22.71\00:26:26.37
We sat there like that on
the edge of our chairs for three
00:26:26.41\00:26:30.05
hours, time went by quickly.
00:26:30.08\00:26:32.64
- that is funny.
00:26:32.67\00:26:33.94
I just remember right
after, tell the rest of the,
00:26:33.98\00:26:36.50
how it happened after that
because I was, a relationship
00:26:36.54\00:26:40.00
was in ending for me and...
00:26:40.03\00:26:41.74
Tell a little bit about it,
I went to this church and was
00:26:41.77\00:26:45.21
praying with friends first.
00:26:45.25\00:26:47.15
It was a fast track and we
will tell you that in a moment.
00:26:47.18\00:26:51.64
I guess really the first thing
was I ran into you a couple
00:26:51.68\00:26:56.10
days after that, didn't I?
00:26:56.14\00:26:57.88
We ran into each other
again and then after that my mom
00:26:57.92\00:27:02.80
had some problems with her VCR.
00:27:02.83\00:27:05.12
He told me he worked
in television, or TV.
00:27:05.15\00:27:08.58
He didn't tell me
what he did in TV.
00:27:08.62\00:27:11.60
- Could tell me how to turn
the VCR on! Could you come over?
00:27:11.63\00:27:15.98
Exactly, that is what he
said, it's not exactly what I'd
00:27:16.01\00:27:20.32
do, but I would be
happy to take a look at it.
00:27:20.35\00:27:22.99
So he came over and
took a look at my mom's VCR.
00:27:25.06\00:27:27.75
It wasn't able to fix the
VCR but we got to talk again.
00:27:27.78\00:27:31.99
After that I think you start
stopping by pretty much every
00:27:32.02\00:27:35.48
evening, when he would get
off work he would stop by for
00:27:35.51\00:27:38.89
an hour or two and we started
actually bringing the Bible
00:27:38.92\00:27:42.26
out and started
studying together.
00:27:42.29\00:27:44.17
We started studying the
Bible together and started
00:27:44.21\00:27:46.25
praying together, that really.
00:27:46.29\00:27:48.71
That really blew my mind
away and the other thing I
00:27:48.74\00:27:50.50
learned about, this was a
neat thing, I went there and
00:27:50.54\00:27:53.03
she had, we told each other
stories and all the details we
00:27:53.07\00:27:55.53
started sharing all the details.
00:27:55.56\00:27:57.12
The hurts of everything and
I remember she had this desk,
00:27:57.15\00:28:00.27
and on the desk she had all
these post-it notes and they
00:28:00.31\00:28:04.07
were Bible verses, things
they had to do with, I guess you
00:28:04.10\00:28:07.82
could say, reminding
her who she was in Christ.
00:28:07.86\00:28:10.86
What God would do and it
really had an impression on me.
00:28:10.89\00:28:17.05
I was looking like
what is she studying, wow!
00:28:17.08\00:28:20.32
Then we could
pray so easy together.
00:28:20.35\00:28:22.98
She was very receptive
and that blew my mind away.
00:28:23.02\00:28:26.89
I had never really experienced
that to that kind of level.
00:28:26.93\00:28:29.93
- I hadn't either. - we
pray together, it was like
00:28:29.96\00:28:32.19
thing, and here's
the thing, I knew it.
00:28:32.23\00:28:36.63
It was like one day, I
remember we were talking,
00:28:36.67\00:28:39.40
and I said you are
the one and I knew it.
00:28:39.44\00:28:42.00
I remember I said that,
it was like she is the one.
00:28:42.03\00:28:47.78
That's the one, Lord
she is the one isn't she?
00:28:47.82\00:28:51.89
Wait a minute, do you know
what is really interesting?
00:28:51.93\00:28:54.49
When you say she is the one,
is all the work God did with
00:28:54.52\00:28:57.03
you guys personally, with
your relationship with Him,
00:28:57.06\00:29:00.01
your healing from all those
deep hurts that really opens
00:29:00.04\00:29:02.95
you up for this love
relationship to happen.
00:29:02.99\00:29:05.80
We knew it, I have to say
this to preface about what
00:29:05.84\00:29:10.56
I'm going to say, we
got married within a month.
00:29:10.60\00:29:13.66
Well let me say this
other first, - within a month?
00:29:13.69\00:29:16.84
I don't encourage that
with everyone, but we knew.
00:29:16.87\00:29:19.77
It was just this
incredible thing and we knew,
00:29:19.80\00:29:22.63
within a month after we
met we were married and it has,
00:29:22.66\00:29:27.09
just been absolutely amazing.
00:29:27.13\00:29:29.52
- you have adult children,
both of you so how did that
00:29:29.55\00:29:32.50
workout because usually people
have these horror stories.
00:29:32.53\00:29:35.44
The first time they met,
it was like they had been
00:29:35.48\00:29:38.64
together their whole lives.
00:29:38.68\00:29:39.95
We couldn't believe that
- it was absolutely amazing.
00:29:39.98\00:29:42.37
One other thing we made
very clear, I guess we talked
00:29:42.41\00:29:44.77
about this, we
don't have stepchildren.
00:29:44.80\00:29:47.80
I do not believe in
stepchildren, I believe that God
00:29:47.84\00:29:52.27
gave me two
daughters I never knew.
00:29:52.31\00:29:54.43
You have to go into
that, we have four kids.
00:29:54.47\00:29:59.11
I may have to explain
that this is my stepdaughter,
00:29:59.15\00:30:02.86
but the we just have
this attitude, we have four.
00:30:02.89\00:30:06.56
We have three
daughters and one son and that
00:30:06.60\00:30:10.80
is the way it is.
00:30:10.84\00:30:12.06
You go into that with this
mindset, so I think when you
00:30:12.09\00:30:14.87
hold it up before the
Lord and literally claim that,
00:30:14.91\00:30:18.24
because I see them as
gifts and amazing miracles with
00:30:18.28\00:30:21.58
our kids, the
relationships with them.
00:30:21.61\00:30:23.58
She has things that my
two needed, I have things that
00:30:26.54\00:30:32.20
her two needed, is that correct?
00:30:32.24\00:30:34.75
God has blessed
in all those ways.
00:30:34.78\00:30:37.22
What is interesting is,
when I hear you guys speak,
00:30:37.26\00:30:41.54
is what the devil meant
to destroy both of you with,
00:30:41.58\00:30:45.37
God said you got to trust
Me and stay in relationship
00:30:45.41\00:30:49.70
with Me, do your recovery
work and I will bless you.
00:30:49.74\00:30:54.00
I think we forget to do
that when we are really deeply
00:30:54.04\00:30:57.27
wounded, especially
relationships, we forget to come
00:30:57.30\00:31:00.50
around side someone
and tell them to stand up,
00:31:00.53\00:31:02.89
keep focused, this is not
meant for your destruction.
00:31:02.92\00:31:07.29
God is not like that.
00:31:07.32\00:31:09.46
We are quick to jump in
an out of relationships and
00:31:09.49\00:31:12.92
God says I am not like that.
00:31:12.95\00:31:14.16
I'm going to open up for
questions, because I know there
00:31:14.19\00:31:16.68
are people at the café
who have listen to this.
00:31:16.71\00:31:18.83
Divorce is so, I hate to
say commonplace, but it really
00:31:18.87\00:31:23.37
is commonplace so I would
just say is there anybody that
00:31:23.40\00:31:27.87
has a question or
would like to ask a question?
00:31:27.90\00:31:31.58
Okay Patrice. - Hi I'm
Patrice from Lansdale and my
00:31:31.61\00:31:35.23
question to you comes
from a very deep personal side.
00:31:35.27\00:31:39.50
The first thing is, as
someone who about two years ago
00:31:39.53\00:31:43.76
had to make a decision
to put divorce on the table
00:31:43.79\00:31:47.99
or take it off.
00:31:48.02\00:31:49.44
My husband and I decided
to take it off the table and
00:31:49.47\00:31:52.61
to seek counseling and to
do some real deep healing.
00:31:52.65\00:31:56.97
There were some very
sensitive issues that could have
00:31:57.00\00:32:01.29
devastated our family.
00:32:01.32\00:32:02.76
One of the things I have
to say that I admire is in the
00:32:02.79\00:32:06.90
asking of forgiveness and
realize what the enemy meant
00:32:06.93\00:32:10.08
for bad, God will turn
around and make it for good.
00:32:10.12\00:32:13.14
I do believe that the
Bible talks about generational
00:32:13.18\00:32:16.16
curses and there are
aspects of that, we have to be
00:32:16.20\00:32:19.15
very careful what we
pass onto our children,
00:32:19.18\00:32:20.88
when they are
young or even an adult.
00:32:20.92\00:32:22.37
My question to you is
this, what have you learned as
00:32:22.41\00:32:25.98
far as forgiveness has gone, as
well as passing on that element
00:32:26.01\00:32:30.05
of forgiveness with your
children to their parents
00:32:30.08\00:32:33.49
were no longer in their lives?
00:32:33.53\00:32:35.79
- Wow, that's heavy. - it is.
00:32:35.82\00:32:38.05
Part of the healing process
is forgiving yourself and
00:32:39.97\00:32:43.28
forgiving your
spouse, your ex spouse.
00:32:43.31\00:32:45.81
I was actually the person
that left, when I was looking
00:32:45.85\00:32:50.87
back through the issues
that we have suffered in our
00:32:50.90\00:32:54.80
marriage and it resulted
in the ending of our marriage,
00:32:54.84\00:32:59.30
I saw a lot of things that
I had done wrong and asked the
00:32:59.33\00:33:03.76
Lord for
forgiveness and asked my
00:33:03.79\00:33:05.46
ex spouse for forgiveness.
00:33:05.49\00:33:07.96
I think it is important to do.
00:33:07.99\00:33:10.38
- so the next step, as
you were talking about too,
00:33:10.42\00:33:12.27
about the children, people
forget about those curses and
00:33:12.31\00:33:16.26
blessings that now I have
given all this stuff to my
00:33:16.30\00:33:19.96
children, how do I allow
them, or give them permission
00:33:19.99\00:33:23.34
not to receive it, not
to take it on, to be able to
00:33:23.38\00:33:26.66
still love both spouses and
to deal with the junk that they
00:33:26.70\00:33:29.33
saw in the
marriage and not allow that
00:33:29.36\00:33:32.68
to devastate
their relationships.
00:33:32.72\00:33:35.99
We try not to say bad things
about our ex-spouses to the
00:33:36.03\00:33:40.52
kids, - there are some
jokes, I have to admit.
00:33:40.55\00:33:43.90
But it's ones that they
would do, but when it comes to
00:33:43.94\00:33:47.98
demeaning, you're right.
00:33:48.02\00:33:51.47
They love our ex-spouses too,
00:33:51.51\00:33:54.85
- we encourage a
relationship with them as well.
00:33:54.89\00:33:57.83
Not just to allow the
relationship to continue,
00:33:57.87\00:34:00.59
but yes encouraging the
relationship to continue.
00:34:00.62\00:34:03.27
- at one time you had your
ex - wife actually come out to
00:34:03.31\00:34:07.04
your house and hang out.
00:34:07.08\00:34:09.34
- that is part of an incredible
forgiveness story which
00:34:09.37\00:34:11.63
I think we will share a
little of that at the end.
00:34:11.66\00:34:16.56
The question is how, for
me, it was really having to
00:34:16.59\00:34:20.51
forgive as a believer,
let me put it in this way.
00:34:20.55\00:34:25.08
If I claim the name of
Christ, and I want to take His
00:34:25.11\00:34:29.26
name in vain, how can I
not forgive the way He forgave?
00:34:29.29\00:34:33.40
You have to come to that
place, there is no excuse
00:34:33.43\00:34:36.76
for you not to.
00:34:36.80\00:34:37.89
Here is the other thing,
in my relationship with Vicki
00:34:37.92\00:34:40.50
right now, and this is
something I wish I knew before,
00:34:40.54\00:34:43.08
and I should have
known that, it's forgiving.
00:34:43.12\00:34:45.85
You have to forgive every day.
00:34:45.88\00:34:47.55
- right you have to
forgive them for what they may
00:34:47.59\00:34:51.49
have done to you too.
00:34:51.53\00:34:53.00
And that forgiveness thing
is huge, neither one of us want
00:34:53.03\00:34:57.05
to do that, but when she
said forgiving yourself for the
00:34:57.09\00:35:01.07
things you did, -
maybe even forgiving God?
00:35:01.11\00:35:04.23
There is a huge thing in
saying to God, why couldn't You
00:35:04.27\00:35:08.97
protect me on all that anger,
so even the forgiveness to
00:35:09.00\00:35:13.38
God Himself as forgiving
to our spouses so that doesn't
00:35:13.41\00:35:17.76
get a generational
thing going where I give that
00:35:17.79\00:35:20.75
unforgiving spirit to my child.
00:35:20.78\00:35:22.44
And - letting our children
know that we are not pro-
00:35:22.48\00:35:25.73
divorce, and we have let
them know there are things we
00:35:25.77\00:35:28.62
could have done differently
in our marriages that would
00:35:28.66\00:35:31.48
have been better if we had.
00:35:31.51\00:35:35.25
It shouldn't of been this
by the way, because it happened
00:35:35.29\00:35:37.94
to us, this
should not happen to you.
00:35:37.98\00:35:40.56
You should know to
look for in a mate. - like?
00:35:40.59\00:35:45.00
Relationship first of all with
the God of heaven, Lord this
00:35:45.04\00:35:49.60
is not about religion.
00:35:49.63\00:35:50.98
- are they spiritually in
the right place themselves?
00:35:51.02\00:35:54.58
This thing is not about
being in the same church or
00:35:54.61\00:35:57.60
what ever, is about
first knowing Jesus Christ.
00:35:57.63\00:36:00.95
Second of all walking in
the spirit and those other
00:36:00.98\00:36:04.23
things, look for the person
growing, also that they come
00:36:04.27\00:36:08.53
to a clear point.
00:36:08.56\00:36:11.53
- someone you would
enjoy spending the rest of your
00:36:11.56\00:36:13.44
life with too, that you
share common interests with.
00:36:13.48\00:36:15.88
- that's huge. - that
is huge Hollywood says that
00:36:15.91\00:36:18.24
opposites attract and there
is a lot of things that can
00:36:18.28\00:36:21.94
come between you when you
don't have a common interest.
00:36:21.98\00:36:25.61
When opposites
attract, I love it because
00:36:25.65\00:36:27.29
she is different than I
am, she is more detailed,
00:36:27.33\00:36:28.60
- I'm a little off
the wall and creative.
00:36:28.63\00:36:30.60
- and we are a lot
alike in other ways too.
00:36:30.64\00:36:32.53
We have those things that
we hold together, and that
00:36:32.57\00:36:35.39
was from the beginning.
00:36:35.43\00:36:36.78
Okay are there
any other questions?
00:36:36.82\00:36:37.99
By the way Patrice
that was a great question.
00:36:38.03\00:36:40.21
How bout you Donna? -
yes I have a question.
00:36:40.24\00:36:42.35
This usually takes a time
to go through a process like
00:36:42.39\00:36:47.90
this and I am curious from
the time, Tom your wife left
00:36:47.94\00:36:53.14
you, the time that you
decided in your heart to forgive
00:36:53.17\00:36:57.80
her, and then Vicki from
the time you left your husband
00:36:57.83\00:37:02.29
to the time where you had
forgiveness in your heart.
00:37:02.33\00:37:06.75
How long was
that for both of you?
00:37:06.79\00:37:09.46
I think was
different for both of us.
00:37:09.50\00:37:12.10
For me it was probably
three or four years were
00:37:12.14\00:37:15.47
I got to get to that point.
00:37:15.51\00:37:19.01
It's a continual process
because I have to be honest
00:37:19.04\00:37:23.10
with you, this is one I
think until probably the past
00:37:23.14\00:37:27.25
year or two that I have
really totally resigned to it.
00:37:27.28\00:37:31.36
I don't think
there is a magic number.
00:37:31.39\00:37:34.76
For me it was just a few
months because two things.
00:37:34.79\00:37:37.75
One thing was that I
have more difficulty forgiving
00:37:37.79\00:37:40.71
myself that I did
forgiving my ex-spouse.
00:37:40.75\00:37:44.77
The other thing was that
it turned out to be a blessing
00:37:44.80\00:37:49.76
because I wasn't able
to find work right away.
00:37:49.80\00:37:51.16
I had moved back up here
and was actually able to spend
00:37:51.19\00:37:55.70
about three months where
the majority of my days were
00:37:55.73\00:38:00.17
spent in Bible study and prayer
and going to my counseling
00:38:00.21\00:38:03.34
sessions so I got to work
through, I had some really
00:38:03.37\00:38:06.58
intense time to
work through issues.
00:38:06.61\00:38:09.16
I think that
really made difference.
00:38:09.19\00:38:11.67
- Amen, Amen that is
another good question.
00:38:11.70\00:38:15.10
I know Brad you had a question.
00:38:15.14\00:38:16.64
The question I have actually
relates to Cheri and I in
00:38:16.68\00:38:19.68
that we came from
different spiritual backgrounds.
00:38:19.72\00:38:22.66
She had an Adventist upbringing
and I came from a Methodist
00:38:22.69\00:38:26.39
background, you spoke the
fact that you came from two
00:38:26.42\00:38:29.72
different spiritual backgrounds.
00:38:29.76\00:38:31.51
Where are you guys now
it how can you address that?
00:38:31.54\00:38:35.28
- that is a good question,
and I have to say upbringing
00:38:35.32\00:38:38.48
I had no spiritual upbringing
but came in to Adventism
00:38:38.52\00:38:41.32
after I came off the streets,
because somebody is going to
00:38:41.35\00:38:44.12
say I just did know she
had a spiritual background.
00:38:44.15\00:38:46.52
You each had spiritual
backgrounds and I know that you
00:38:46.56\00:38:48.83
said you were studying
together so part of that had
00:38:48.86\00:38:51.10
to be from that,
and so talk about
00:38:51.13\00:38:54.70
how you came onto one page.
00:38:54.73\00:38:57.20
Not on everything, my
prayer was that if it was God's
00:38:57.24\00:39:03.46
will for me to marry
again, I would meet a man
00:39:03.49\00:39:06.24
who had a heart for
Him and he was kind.
00:39:06.27\00:39:09.29
Tom met both those things
are plus there were so much
00:39:09.33\00:39:14.06
more, but his background
was different from mine.
00:39:14.10\00:39:18.80
You were at
that time attending a
00:39:18.83\00:39:21.51
nondenominational church.
00:39:21.54\00:39:23.46
- I have been
Baptist, I had been with
00:39:23.50\00:39:25.18
Church of God, a chameleon.
00:39:25.21\00:39:26.82
He had found a relationship
with the Lord though and
00:39:26.86\00:39:31.62
we did agree on
some issues like Sabbath.
00:39:31.65\00:39:34.18
- yeah that was something
that was different, but
00:39:34.21\00:39:37.32
those things I had to
work through more than she did.
00:39:37.35\00:39:40.42
My attitude was I was
right and she was wrong.
00:39:40.46\00:39:42.43
- I love that! - I know
but it's true, but the thing
00:39:44.27\00:39:47.28
was God brought a lot of
things with her to me that
00:39:47.32\00:39:50.79
I had never heard and we
began studying the Scriptures.
00:39:50.83\00:39:54.27
The first that we have
to say was our relationship
00:39:54.31\00:39:57.68
with Christ was the focus.
00:39:57.71\00:39:59.28
How we had, I didn't even know
that she went to a different
00:39:59.31\00:40:05.76
church, this did
not come up at first.
00:40:05.79\00:40:07.74
She had said something
about it, and I said wait just a
00:40:07.78\00:40:12.25
minute, my thing was the
Holy Spirit is clearly working
00:40:12.28\00:40:16.97
in her life and I had prayed
for a woman that would also
00:40:17.00\00:40:21.65
follow God and
that I could pray with.
00:40:21.68\00:40:24.68
It was these things that were
very uniting and then a little
00:40:24.72\00:40:28.22
period of time and we worked
through that and I was the one
00:40:28.26\00:40:31.73
that actually ended up
being an Adventist later.
00:40:31.76\00:40:35.85
I study in which she
basically left that part to God.
00:40:35.89\00:40:39.75
But she was in a relationship.
00:40:39.79\00:40:41.96
- she is not afraid of that?
00:40:41.99\00:40:44.10
No! - what is interesting
is that I could tell you are
00:40:44.13\00:40:46.45
from different places
spiritually when you said people
00:40:46.49\00:40:48.83
were prophesying over you
and that doesn't necessarily
00:40:48.86\00:40:51.17
happen in our churches much.
00:40:51.20\00:40:52.71
So I could tell you
were from different places.
00:40:52.75\00:40:56.13
God is not really afraid
of that stuff, He just says
00:40:56.17\00:40:59.36
at one time when I
asked God it was funny.
00:40:59.39\00:41:02.05
God who are you working
with and who is right and that
00:41:02.08\00:41:06.42
type of stuff, He said
I'd make it really simple.
00:41:06.46\00:41:08.28
I just got this image from
God, He said to get a mirror
00:41:08.31\00:41:12.41
and put it under their
nose and of its steams up,
00:41:12.45\00:41:14.42
that is my child.
00:41:14.46\00:41:15.85
I thought, how fun is that!
00:41:15.88\00:41:18.69
He says I'm trying to bring
everybody to a healing place,
00:41:18.73\00:41:21.56
I'm trying to bring everybody
to the truth, especially after
00:41:21.59\00:41:24.80
divorce and major things
like that is that you guys went
00:41:24.83\00:41:27.50
through, and we're going
to take a break right now and
00:41:27.54\00:41:30.08
come back, but you went
through some major hurts in
00:41:30.11\00:41:32.58
your life and the betrayals
and having to adjust and then
00:41:32.62\00:41:36.74
lose everything, your jobs
and it sounds like not just the
00:41:36.77\00:41:40.86
relationships but
you got hit in a number
00:41:40.89\00:41:42.60
of areas and God had to
reestablish who you are as a
00:41:42.63\00:41:45.92
person and then who you
are as far as Him and His child
00:41:45.95\00:41:49.60
and then definitely who you
are in a relationship again.
00:41:49.64\00:41:53.57
We are going ahead to take
a break but I want you guys
00:41:53.60\00:41:57.49
to stay with me
and we're going to talk
00:41:57.53\00:42:00.19
a little bit as the close
this out on ultimately the
00:42:00.23\00:42:03.74
forgiveness, not only for
yourself or for God, but for
00:42:03.77\00:42:07.24
your spouse and
how did that look.
00:42:07.28\00:42:09.00
I know that you guys
have a wonderful story there.
00:42:09.03\00:42:12.37
So stay with us we
will be right back.
00:42:12.41\00:42:13.78
If you are hurting in a
relationship in a divorce
00:42:13.82\00:42:18.15
setting like this, just
know that God is not afraid
00:42:18.19\00:42:22.49
and will come
right alongside of you.
00:42:22.52\00:42:24.39
Just be encouraged,
we will be right back!
00:42:24.43\00:42:27.08